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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Campaigns in Arizona; Cruz Attends Private Fundraisers in Los Angeles; Trump, Cruz Play Nice; South Carolina Voters Judge the Debate; Hung Jury, Mistrial In Freddie Gray Case; South Carolina Pivotal in GOP Primary Showdown; FBI: Chattanooga Shootings were Terrorist Inspired; Chattanooga Victims will be Awarded Purple Hearts; Arrest Warrant Issued for "Affluenza" Teen. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 16, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:01:05] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Just after 9:00 PM here in New York, a new day on the campaign trail as leading republicans try to capitalize on last night's CNN Debate. They got a lot of exposure, more than 18 million people watched. The focus, national security, stopping terror attacks, fighting ISIS.
There's new development tonight on all those fronts, but first, how the two frontrunners tried today to turn their debate performance into a post-debate bounce. Jeff Zeleny is with the Trump campaign in Mesa, Arizona. Sunlen Serfaty is in Los Angeles with Ted Cruz. Let's start with Jeff.
Donald Trump's speech in Arizona, almost like a self-declared victory lap.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it's certainly seen that if Donald Trump was subdued last night, he certainly was not today. He entered this rally in dramatic fashion. He was landing his airplane right in the front of a hangar. Loud, loud music from the Air Force 1 soundtrack. Not surprisingly here. So this is all part of his plan to, you know, if you say you're winning, you are winning, you keep winning. But boy, Anderson, there was no specifics about policy. There was nothing really discussed that would, you know, change any voters' minds, if someone will sort of came to him with an open mind and wasn't quite sure about him.
He talked about how he's leading in the polls. He listed 13 separate online polls. He read from a sheet of paper, saying he won the debate last night. And so Donald Trump is obsessed about these polls, about winning. The question is, if he ever does not win in one of the actual contests in Iowa or New Hampshire or South Carolina, what will happen then? There was no talk about that today. It was a victory day for Donald Trump.
COOPER: You know, before the debate and the days before, he had said some critical things about Ted Cruz. He got kind of attacked or cautioned, I guess, by Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, radio -- conservative radio for going after Ted Cruz. At the debate, he had the opportunity to repeat the things, he walked it back. Did Trump say anything about Cruz today?
ZELENY: He said very little about Ted Cruz. He embraced him a little bit more. He said he's a very nice guy and that's all he had to say about Ted Cruz.
So Anderson, this is one of the most fascinating dynamics of the race here. Ted Cruz is a serious candidate. He's leading Donald Trump in Iowa. Most respected polls say he is growing nationally, but Donald Trump is not taking him on. It's the first time we've seen this happen in this campaign. So far, it's good for business for both of them, to sort of embrace one another. But I have to think that that will change coming in the New Year, when Ted Cruz continues to ascend here. But for today, at least, he did not talk about him at all.
He did seem to relish going after Jeb Bush yet again. He clearly got under skin at the debate last night. So Donald Trump had some more words for Jeb Bush. But for Ted Cruz, it is all happiness and hugs and light. We'll see if that keeps up. I'm not sure it will.
COOPER: Happiness, hugs, and light. Jeff Zeleny thanks very much.
Now Ted Cruz spent more time last night squaring off with Marco Rubio than Trump. For that, let's go to Sunlen Serfaty in Los Angeles. Did Cruz address Trump at all today?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, keeping in line with last night's debate, Anderson, Ted Cruz said not a single bad word about Donald Trump today. It was all positive. And he really seemed to go out of his way to praise Donald Trump today, saying he's energized with a lot of voters and he's happy that a lot of voters will potentially be coming out to vote. You know, this is a well-masked strategy by Ted Cruz here, making sure that he doesn't alienate Trump's supporters, wants to woo them over to his side, if they should come. And he seems for the most part really determined to stick to that strategy, at least publicly, and for the short time at least at his sights really hone in on Marco Rubio.
COOPER: And about Rubio, he's suggesting Rubio's campaign is now nervous. What do you have to say about that?
SERFATY: Well that's right. At least four times today, Ted Cruz mentioned that he does think that Rubio and his campaign are getting a little nervous. And that was the reason he said he thinks that they clashed repeatedly during last night's debate. But this, of course, has been a battle that is a long time coming between the two senators, really previewing, potentially, what this -- how this dynamic could play out on the campaign trail and will continue to dominate, most likely. Very clear that both of these senators understand the very real threat that the other poses to their path forward and they're ready to take each other on.
[21:05:13] COOPER: All right Sunlen, thanks very much. Joining us now is CNN chief national correspondent, John King, host of "CNN Inside Politics". Also "Washington Post" syndicated columnist, conservative, Kathleen Parker, and CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord, who's a Trump supporter and served as White House political director during the Reagan administration.
It was interesting to see Trump and Cruz finding kind of new ways to stay out of each other's way in the debate last night.
KATHLEEN PARKER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: Well, yes, I think the comments were just exactly right. They're obviously trying not to alienate each other's followings in the hopes that, you know, should -- obviously one of them is going to leave the other one behind, so they want to be able to bring those supporters with them.
COOPER: And actually polls kind of show that for our trust board is there -- for a lot of them, their second choice would be Cruz, same with Dr. Carson, their second choice would be Cruz.
PARKER: Right. And they're really such different candidates. But Cruz is really, you know, he's got such a sophisticated ground game. He's been working on his infrastructure all along, sort of for a while, off the radar a bit, and now he's kind of, you know, he's the horse at the backside, pulling up.
PARKER: And ahead of everyone else.
COOPER: If it's not just a ground game in Iowa or in a lot of southern states as well.
PARKER: It's all over, yeah. He's got the -- he's sort of got what Mitt Romney once have which is, you know, spreadsheets and lots of people on the ground. So he's in a good position to play the long game.
And I do think he is probably -- you know, I would predict he's going to win Iowa. And then I don't know what Mr. Trump feels about that. And how -- you know, because he has always talked about the polls, what you have to realize is that's all he talks about. You know, when there are no polls to cite, when he can't just keep saying, "I'm winning, I'm winning," he's not talking about anything substantive in there at all. So that's -- all we're hearing about is he's winning.
COOPER: Right, what happens if he doesn't?
PARKER: So when he doesn't win, I don't know about what's left.
COOPER: Right, it would be interesting to see. John, how do you see Marco Rubio playing to all of this? I mean, he certainly seems to be a candidate who has consistently played a long game, waiting patiently for others to drop off, even if that may not actually happen.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR, "INSIDE POLITICS": Well that may not happen until after New Hampshire and part of the question for Marco Rubio's lane in this race is where is he by then, Anderson. You're right, he's been patient and in most national polls now he's in third place but it's a pretty distant third place or fourth place, lumped with Dr. Carson, and you have Trump and Cruz at the top. The question in this race really is how many lanes do we have? Ted Cruz is a classic evangelical candidate who, I agree with Kathleen, is surging in Iowa right now. He also adds in a significant tea party element. Those are the two energetic bases of the Republican Party right now. If Cruz gets a big win in Iowa, what does Trump do? Does he go on and try to win New Hampshire, or does that somehow fundamentally change the campaign?
And so we have the evangelical tea party candidate in Cruz. We have the disruptive outsider in Donald Trump, who's not really an ideological candidate. He's just a disruptive force in the republican party. And then will there be a mainstream establishment candidate? And Marco Rubio wants to be that candidate. He's ascendant at the moment, but Jeb Bush still wants to be that candidate.
Chris Christie, who's gaining ground in New Hampshire wants to be that candidate. John Kasich wants to be that candidate. Of the outsiders, you could say Carly Fiorina could be that kind of a candidate. Well, not all of them can survive. And so the question for Marco Rubio is, yeah, he's a good debater, yeah, he's moving up right now, but where is he going to win?
COOPER: And Jeff, for Donald Trump, for your candidate, and to Kathleen's point, if in Iowa he does not win, what happens? I mean, if he doesn't have a poll to tout, does he just move on, and look to New Hampshire or look to South Carolina?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN W.H. POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Sure, of course. I mean, which is -- that's exactly, as a matter of fact, what happened to Ronald Reagan. He lost Iowa to George H. W. Bush. And he went right on to New Hampshire and won New Hampshire and then on to South Carolina, et cetera. And as a matter of fact, he lost some more primaries to Bush along the way. He lost my home state of Pennsylvania in April of 1980, I mean, you know, well down the road.
So, this is going to be a long march here. This is not going to be decided in Iowa or New Hampshire either. We're going to go on for quite some time. And that's where you get into questions of organization and money and resources and all of that.
COOPER: And Kathleen, how vulnerable do you think Marco Rubio is on immigration, given his past legislative record?
PARKER: Well, very. I mean, that's a problem for him. And that sort of explains the animus between him and Ted Cruz too. You know, nobody -- none of Ted Cruz's colleagues like him because he's always been about himself, primarily. And he, you know, works with the house to shut down the government. So, you know, they very much resent him. And then he's also taking pride, Cruz is, in reminding people that he actually fought Marco Rubio on his immigration plans.
So he can kind of stand out in the -- you know, as sort of the fire against immigration versus poor Marco, who is trying to do what I think most Americans think should be done.
COOPER: John, I mean, just last as we... LORD: Anderson.
COOPER: Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead, Jeff.
LORD: Anderson, one thing that I think we're not thinking about here, in all the presidential history, only three United States senators have gone from the senate to the White House directly, it was President Obama, President Kennedy, and President Warren Harding.
[21:10:09] We've had lots and lots and lots of senators, some of them very well known like Ted Kennedy, Barry Goldwater, George McGovern, others, who run for president and either lose the nomination or get the nomination and lose the White House itself.
So, I think that perhaps where we may be looking at a phenomenon here of two senators battling here, and whether or not they'll emerge, whether their job itself is, you know, is innately a problem for them. I think we'll find out.
COOPER: Interesting. John, how long do you see this going? I mean, how long does this race go on for?
KASICH: I wish I had that crystal ball. But, you know, this -- we have -- we're in role reversal this year that looks like, now, you know, Bernie Sanders is still a credible candidate, don't get me wrong. But you could look at data and say you can see the democratic race ending relatively soon. Hillary Clinton has a chance to put it away relatively soon. She's almost the it's-your-turn candidate that we normally have in the Republican primaries.
This Republican race, let's assume Cruz wins Iowa. Trump is well ahead right now in New Hampshire. Now, we move on to South Carolina where Trump leads at the moment. Then this is why you have to keep an eye on Ted Cruz. Iowa does not have a great history of picking presidential nominees. Yes, George W. Bush won there for republicans and went on to win the nomination. But Mike Huckabee won there. He was essentially a one state wonder. Rick Santorum won there. He went on to win 11 another states but Mitt Romney had it locked up pretty much by then and Santorum won some of those states. I don't need to beat up on Senator Santorum, he worked really hard at that campaign. But he won some of those states simply because he wasn't Mitt Romney. And you get down to that point in the race.
The Republican party changed its calendar this year. So you have -- you're going to have the SEC primary on March 1st. Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Louisiana, Florida are right around those states as well. Some other southern states as well, Ted Cruz is not Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum because as Kathleen noted, he has a good organization, he has a good team and Anderson, he has money.
KASICH: And so if this race stretches on, this race stretches on, that's the question. Will Trump start digging into his own pockets? He will have to spend more of his own money if this becomes a long protracted race. He has to spend a ton of it so far. He's not airing T.V. ads. Will he make that strategic decision, I mean for the long run, or will losing a state or two change the calculation. We don't know that but this could go on for quite some time.
COOPER: Yeah. John. Thank you, Jeffrey Lord, Kathleen Parker, good stuff. Thank you.
John just mentioned South Carolina. How the debate played there last night. 150 voters who watched with our Gary Tuchman told them who they thought won the night. We'll show you that.
Plus the breaking news in Baltimore, protests now calm after hung jury in mistrial in the Freddie Gray case. The jury deadlocked after deliberating for less than three days. We'll talk about what happens next in the courtroom when we continue.
[21:15:44] COOPER: As we've said, 18 million people watched last night's debate in Las Vegas, the third most watched debate in television history. Viewers heard a lot of tough talk on national security. They also saw a two-hour tour de force of non-verbal communication.
Donald Trump's facial expressions during the two-hour debate have gone viral online, it looks like "The Brady Bunch" there. There were moments of levity last night as well, the topics though, deadly serious. Our Gary Tuchman watched the debate with a group of 150 voters in South Carolina, a hugely important state in the primary race. The third state to vote, of course, after the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, which means it could tip the race in a crucial direction. With that in mind, here's what Gary heard from the voters after the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A packed movie theater in Charleston County South Carolina, the crowd about to watch the CNN Republican Presidential Debate.
We want to ask you who you are supporting for president as of now. Hillary Clinton?
These are all loyal republicans. We watched with them to see their reactions to the one-liners.
TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He said, all horse thieves are democrats, but not all democrats are horse thieves.
CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want something talked about, ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman.
TUCHMAN: We watched the reactions to the insults.
JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So Donald, you know, is great at the one-liners, but he's a chaos candidate. And he'd be a chaos president.
He would not be the commander-in-chief we need to keep our...
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jeb said, when they come across the southern border, they come as an act of love.
BUSH: You said in September 30th that ISIS was not a --
TRUMP: Am I talking or you talking, Jeb?
TUCHMAN: But for most of the debate, the crowd was quiet and studiously analyzing. When it was all over, Linwood Yarborough says Trump was the winner.
LINWOOD YARBOROUGH, CHARLESTON COUNTY, S.C. RESIDENT: I think he's gotten stronger and better in each debate, but he's very clear and very decisive.
TUCHMAN: Amber Haver says Carson was the best.
AMBER HAVER, CHARLESTON COUNTY, S.C. RESIDENT: He brings class to every situation that he's asked about. He spoke with poise. He was articulate. He's clear and he was likable, which is something that the other candidates are lacking.
TUCHMAN: Anne Langdon Elrod says she likes Rubio.
ANNE LANGDON ELROD, CHARLESTON COUNTY, S.C. RESIDENT: I don't know if he was number one, but I think he was very strong.
TUCHMAN: Who do you think goes number one?
LANGDON ELROD: I would have to say Ted Cruz, because he butt in a lot.
TUCHMAN: He butt in a lot.
LANGDON ELROD: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Cruz also cracked some jokes many here enjoyed.
TED CRUZ, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will build a wall that works and I'll get Donald Trump to pay for it.
TUCHMAN: Marraide Sullivan says Cruz was the winner.
MARAIDE SULLIVAN, CHARLESTON COUNTY, S.C. RESIDENT: I think that he's becoming more and more likable to people, as they get to know him.
TUCHMAN: 135 of the people here participated in a movie theater straw poll. And I will tell you that the winner, number one in the straw poll vote, who did the best during this debate according to this group here in Charleston South Carolina, was Ted Cruz, 31 votes.
Cruz may have come out on top, but all the candidates got votes. An indication this first southern state to cast ballots is very much in play. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Charleston, South Carolina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And back with our panel, John King, South Carolinian, Kathleen Parker, and Jeffrey Lord. Kathleen, you got your start in the business in South Carolina.
PARKER: I did. I'm hesitant to say when that was because that's what makes me far older than I could possibly be. But I did cover the first republican primary ever.
COOPER: Like 2005 or 2006 if I remember.
PARKER: Yeah, something like that.
COOPER: I mean, obviously, this could play a huge -- South Carolina play an incredibly important role because we've seen in the Iowa in the past for all the attention paid to it. I mean, Huckabee and Santorum did well there.
COOPER: It didn't translate to them and actually getting the nomination.
PARKER: Well yeah, the South Carolina primary was created in 1980, it's just that recent. But it was also designed to sort of break the, you know, the sort of, the insurgent candidate try to get rid of them and especially if they were anti-establishment and get everyone unified around a certain candidate, finally and once and for all, but I don't know how that works with Donald Trump. You know, he is now leading.
But it's a very important state. Everybody who has won the South Carolina primary has gone on to become the convention nominee with the exception of Newt Gingrich, who did win that primary and of course, Mitt Romney was the nominee of that year. But it is sort of historically, you know, the tiebreaker, the one that identifies who became as most likely to be.
[21:20:04] COOPER: Yeah John, to Kathleen's point, do you think too much attention is paid on Iowa and New Hampshire. South Carolina is only 11 days after New Hampshire?
KING: Well, as Kathleen noted, South Carolina has a history of being the decisive state. As I said before, the republican primaries tend to end pretty quickly. Bob Dole can win Iowa and George H. Bush wins New Hampshire, then George H. W. Bush then wins South Carolina, for example, and it's essentially over, even though it goes on longer.
The question is, was Newt Gingrich an anomaly or is South Carolina's Republican Party changing like the Republican Party across the country in a lot of ways? South Carolina, even though you think of it as a southern state, has always been more of an establishment state.
Now Carol Campbell, the former governor, the deceased governor now, was Key to George H.W. Bush, his organization was still in place even when George W. Bush ran. Does that still exist? Or is South Carolina becoming more of a tea party state. Like its governor now, Nikki Haley.
This is where Ted Cruz looks at the map and says, I like this. I like this. I want to be Ted Cruz, the tea party guy going into South Carolina, and then into the SEC primary, into the south, but as Trump right now, as I checked out the polling, on average, if you average the most recent South Carolina polls, Trump is up 12 points. The Winthrop Poll in the state is a respected poll. Several weeks old, but Trump is up eight points. Iowa and New Hampshire tend to change the polls. Even in South Carolina, all the states that come after them. But if you look at the map right now from South Carolina into the south, you have a Trump-Cruz race.
COOPER: Jeff, I mean, how strong do you think Trump's support is in South Carolina?
LORD: Well, I think it's pretty strong. Yeah, I really do. I think he spent the time there. I think he's got a lot of grassroots support. I think he's doing fine with that. So, you know, we're headed into the Christmas break thing sort of tend to calm down here, but I think, I expect him to do very, very well. And as a matter of fact, if in fact, he did lose in Iowa, you know, that might be the place that along with New Hampshire, that is the firewall, as they say.
COOPER: Kathleen, you go ahead.
PARKER: I was just going to say, I think John made a really good point that the state is changing, the party is changing, and it's becoming much more tea party heavily evangelical. And these are the folks that gravitate toward I wouldn't pick Trump so much, but to Ted Cruz. Actually, Trump supporters tend not to be religious. They tend to be blue-collar. I don't like saying this, but, undereducated, and not religious.
So I don't -- those people are also, as I said earlier tonight, the same people who often don't turn out to vote. So it's very unclear whether he will be able to maintain that lead in South Carolina. But otherwise, you know, it's very hard to put South Carolina in a box anymore. It's -- we've got a lot of people coming from other parts, although they tend to be more democratic than republican. But I think it's, you know, I think Ted Cruz could actually do quite well in South Carolina.
COOPER: We shall see. Kathleen Parker. Go ahead Jeff.
LORD: One of the unknowns, Anderson. One of the unknowns, Donald Trump is attracting a lot of people to his rallies who have never been involved in politics before. This is sort of has a sort of, to me, a sort of Reagan feel to it. So that you're not appealing just to the folks that have always been involved in a primary or a caucus, you're dealing now with an unknown quantity of people who have never been involved in politics before.
LORD: Now the question is, how many people are there?
LORD: I don't know the answer to that, but I do think they're out there and I think they're an element.
COOPER: Right. And do they come out to vote? And if he doesn't become the nominee, do they then vote for the GOP? Jeffrey Lord, a lot of questions. Kathleen Parker, as well, thank you, John King, thanks.
Next, the protest that fall out of Baltimore after that hung jury in the first were persecutors expecting many trials in the death of Freddie Gray. The question now is every one of those upcoming cases in jeopardy because of what happened today? Details ahead.
[21:27:41] COOPER: Welcome back. Protesters took to the streets of Baltimore tonight after a jury failed to reach a verdict in the first of what's expected to be many trials in the death of Freddie Gray. As you know, he died of police custody back in April, sparking the worst riot in Baltimore has seen since the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Six Baltimore police officers were charged in the death. Today, less than three days after jury deliberations began in the case of the first officer William Porter, a judge declared a mistrial. Prosecutors will decide whether to try him again. Meantime, protesters have already made their decision. They do not like it. Our Miguel Marquez joins us now from Downtown Baltimore. What's the latest tonight?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look, the protests have now broken up, but they did get rather intense for a short time after that mistrial was announced. Protesters taking to the streets, several dozen of them marched from the courthouse to city hall here where we are now, and then around to the police headquarters. Police acting very, very with a very strong hand, bringing out dozens if not hundreds of police to block roads, to keep them off the main thoroughfares in Baltimore, and to keep them as much in control as possible.
Eventually, the protestors came back to city hall and eventually broke up. There were two arrests. One a 16-year-old, another a well-known activist here, Kwame Rose. Protesters ended up over at Central Booking, where the 16-year-old was taken.
Most concerned about him. One thing that was interesting about the protests today. For the first time, and we've seen this in Chicago as well, you're seeing signs like this. "Good cops don't let bad cops kill defenseless citizens." This is the first time in a protest here in Baltimore that they at least recognize that there are good cops with the Baltimore Police Department. So maybe in some ways, that is a small step forward in all of this.
Protesters say they may be out again tomorrow the day after all of this, as prosecutors say they will bring charges again against William Porter. And then the question is, how will this affect all those other trials waiting. Anderson?
COOPER: And Miguel, you spoke to Freddie Gray's family. What'd they say?
MARQUEZ: We spoke to them exclusively immediately after the trial. His mother, you know, she's not in great shape, and she was able to say a little bit. She said she was upset by the fact that there was no -- that there were no charges, that the jury didn't find him guilty on any of the charges. But also said that she believes that there will be justice eventually. Her husband, Richard Shipley also spoke to us, reading a statement. Here's a little of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:08] RICHARD SHIPLEY, STEPFATHER OF FREDDIE GRAY: We are hopeful that Ms. Mosby will retry Officer Porter as soon as possible, and that his next jury will reach a verdict. Once again, we ask the public to remain calm and patient because we are confident there will be another trial with a different jury. We are calm, you should be calm too. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Now, prosecutors say that they will, in fact, bring charges. We expect that process to begin tomorrow and learn much more about that in the days ahead, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Miguel. Thanks very much from Baltimore.
Tonight, joining us now is CNN political commentator and former Obama adviser, Van Jones, CNN law enforcement analyst and former NYPD detective Harry Houck and CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Danny Cevallos. Danny, what are the challenges for the prosecutors moving forward on this pretrial?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATORNEY: Well, first of all, you have a bunch of witnesses that have testified and all of those transcripts can be used later on as -- they can be mine for prior inconsistent statements.
Secondarily, the prosecution has shown its hand. Now, the defense knows what they're going to do if there is a second trial. And then you have to ask the question, well, how will this mistrial seep into the minds of potential jurors going forward? So that can you impanel a new jury that is completely free of any sort of bias or opinion about this case and able to render a verdict.
COOPER: When this happens, do prosecutors interview the jurors to find out what worked and what didn't work?
CEVALLOS: They should, in this case especially because they're going to want to know. Consider this, this is a mistrial because the jury was deadlocked. So that means from the highest charge on down to the lowest charge, they couldn't agree. What that may mean is there was one, maybe two holdouts. If they had split the verdict and acquitted on some and convicted on the others then that might tell us something as well.
But in this case, because they deadlocked on all of them, the prosecutors have to be very curious as to how the jurors arrived at this non-verdict. And I'm going to be interested to find out how many times they went to the judge and how many -- what the discussions were that the judge had with the jury. Because there could even be some issues there for the appellate court going forward.
COOPER: Van, I mean, Sunny in our last hour was saying that she thought prosecutors in Baltimore moved too quickly to bring charges in this case, just really, you know, a week or so or more after Freddie Gray's death, after the charges were even indicated. What do you think the fact that jury couldn't come up with a verdict, what kind of a message do you think that sends to the residents of Baltimore?
VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, you know, Sunny and I see this slightly differently. I think, in fact, the fact that you don't have an acquittal is a vindication of the decision to prosecute. It is very, very hard to convict a police officer. In fact, you've seen across the country horrible incidents, they don't even bring charges against the officer. So it's very, very hard, it's tough. All you need is one juror that just says, "I don't care, this is a police officer, I'm not going to see a police officer go to jail, and you get a hung jury."
So I think that this prosecutor had enough to avoid an acquittal. It is a big setback. But I don't think we should be second-guessing the prosecution. The other thing I think is that the people of Baltimore are behaving responsibly tonight. There is a very strategic reason for them not to get out there and act terribly.
If you had riots tonight, every other case, they would have to move it out of Baltimore. A defense attorney could say, "Listen, we cannot get a fair trial here." So I think it's very smart for people in Baltimore to play it cool, calm, and collected. Let's keep these cases in Baltimore and get to a just outcome.
COOPER: Harry, just as this is being watched by citizens of Baltimore, also being watched by police officers in Baltimore and probably all around the country.
HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE POLICE: Yeah, exactly, police officers are watching this case because like myself and how I believe in myself that this is purely a -- this is prosecutorial misconduct, as far as I'm concerned by looking at the evidence here.
This case vindicates what I've been saying all along, the fact that there's no evidence, no direct evidence against Police Officer Porter. And I think what we're going to start to see, we're going to see a domino effect here, in these next trials here. And we're going to wind up either seeing hung juries or acquittals on these next couple officers that will be going against...
COOPER: A lot of it though, Danny, depends on the jury. I mean, the makeup of the jury, who they happen to get, I mean it's a roll of the dice anytime you put a case in front of a jury. It does seem like a lot of these other cases though, would have depended on Porter's testimony and they clearly usually tried the case they think is the easiest to try first. No?
CEVALLOS: Maybe not. This may have been a real -- a level of strategy that may end up backfiring by trying Porter first. If he offered the most information and the most potential to turn on his brother officers, then if you get an acquittal or you get a conviction, he cannot claim the Fifth Amendment, and he can -- you can force him on the stand to testify.
[21:35:06] However, with a mistrial, he is still a charged defendant, and he can invoke that Fifth Amendment. So now, the prosecutors don't have the benefit of Porter as a witness against the subsequent officers.
So, while the prosecution had hoped that the dominos would fall with Porter, this unexpected mistrial means that the dominos, if they ever fall, will have to wait for another day.
COOPER: Harry Houck, appreciate you being -- Van, I'm sorry, let you in here?
JONES: I just want to say, Harry, I disagreed slightly. He said, "There is no evidence." Had there been no evidence, there would have been an acquittal outright. There must be strong evidence, otherwise they wouldn't have had a split here. Let's give this prosecutor another shot and see what we get. I just don't want anybody thinking that there was just no evidence. I think that's not quite true.
HOUGH: Well, we don't know what the juries -- if it's 6-1, 6-2, 6-6, we don't know...
JONES: That is true.
COOPER: Van Jones, Harry Houck, Danny Cevallos, thanks very much.
As they have been talked about the community playing it cool and not letting protesters get out of hand, tonight, we'll talk to Reverend Jamal Bryant, one of Baltimore's community leaders about what he thinks will happen next.
COOPER: Talking about the Freddie Gray case and something Van Jones said before the break about community reaction to today's mistrial in the case against one of the police officers involved and praising people for playing it cool on the streets.
Joining me now is Reverend Jamal Bryant, a Baltimore community leader. Pastor Bryant, it's good to have you on the program. When you heard there was a mistrial in the case against Officer Porter, what went through your mind?
[21:40:06] REV. JAMAL BRYANT, BALTIMORE COMMUNITY LEADER: Here we go again. It's obvious that this isn't going to be a job, but it's going to be a marathon, considering we've got six trials ahead of us. We thought we would be down the five, but it's Groundhog's Day. It looks like we're going to have to revisit this for many days to come.
COOPER: Do you worry that the mistrial in this case then reverberates in the other cases, makes the other cases even more difficult for prosecutors?
BRYANT: It muddies the water because it shows that there's still a lot of unanswered questions. I'm confident in our state's attorney that they're going to refile tomorrow, so that we'll have another shot at it.
The family is hoping for closure and a verdict one way or another. And prayerfully, this go around, the jury will have all of their questions answered.
COOPER: And how have things been tonight with the protests?
BRYANT: Absolutely peaceable. The interfaith leaders stood as a human chain around North and Penn, which is our ground zero, praying and absolutely no incidents outside of city hall.
This evening, there was a demonstration. Again, no incidents. Gilmor Homes where it is that Freddie Gray was raised and killed, no incidents against our better judgment. We're giving the benefit of the doubt to the criminal justice system even when we haven't had evidence of them being able to perform.
COOPER: And what message are you trying to get out to people tonight, to people out in the community?
BRYANT: Is that we don't want to give absolutely any license for them to move the trial outside of Baltimore, for us to wait for due process and believe that it's going to work out in our favor, not for our revenge, but for justice to take place.
And so far, the streets have been quiet. People in high expectation and believing that it will, in fact, find justice for Freddie Gray's family.
COOPER: And that's your concern, that if protests become violent in any way, that could give defense attorneys a reason to try to move the next trials out of Baltimore?
BRYANT: Well, what we found out from the first uprising is that the city is more concerned about broken police glass than they are broken spines in about the Inner Harbor rather than the heart of the city.
And so we don't want to give any indication or clue that we're going to allow them to push the case outside of the parameters because we believe it should be a jury of the peers of Freddie Gray.
And so, we are armed and attentive to see those process for all six officers come to fruition right here in Baltimore.
COOPER: Pastor Bryant, appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
Up next. A key admission with the director of the FBI said today about that deadly attack five months ago today on military sites in Tennessee and how it significantly changes the complexion of the story.
[21:46:50] COOPER: FBI Director James Comey now says, the mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee that left five U.S. service members dead and another wounded five months ago was in fact homegrown terrorism. This means the marines and sailor will be awarded Purple Hearts. We'll have more on that in a moment.
First, here's Martin Savidge with how the FBI tracked the terrorists' motives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gunfire shatters a midsummer morning in a Chattanooga neighborhood, claiming the lives of four U.S. marines and a U.S. sailor.
The gunman, 24-year-old Mohammad Abdul-Aziz strikes first around 10:45, driving a silver Mustang convertible into the parking lot of a shopping center lined with military recruiting offices.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just pulled up and I didn't think anything of it and he had his dropped top and he looked to the side and next thing you know, he lifted up his arms like this with a big black gun and just -- it was one shot and then it was just endless shots one after another, just unloading.
SAVIDGE: Abdul-Aziz then races to a U.S. Naval Reserve Center seven miles away with police in pursuit. When they catch up with him, a gun battle ensues, as heard in this cellphone video.
ED REINHOLD, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION SPECIAL AGENT: A response by the local law enforcement was overwhelming. They were able to neutralize the threat.
SAVIDGE: The gunman is killed. The entire attack takes less than 30 minutes. But leaves a community in shock and shattered by grief.
The FBI examined writings of Abdul-Aziz that they say expressed he was in agreement with some of the radical teachings of this man. American-born cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, the leader of the al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula who was killed in a U.S. drone strike.
Also, an investigation of the Chattanooga attacker's cellphone found internet searches regarding martyrdom. However, investigators say, they found no evidence that Abdul-Aziz was in direct communication or coordination with any terror group. But to the head of the FBI, such groups are still every bit to blame. COMEY: To my mind, there's no doubt that the Chattanooga killer was inspired and motivated by a foreign terrorist organization propaganda.
SAVIDGE: Terrorist organizations may not have given the order to attack, but authorities believe they did give the 24-year-old American something just as deadly. The will to kill. Martin Savidge, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Late this afternoon, the U.S. Navy announced they will award the Purple Heart to five fallen service members, four were marines, 40-year-old Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Sullivan, known as Tommy to loved ones. A friend put it simply on Facebook, he was our hero. Staff Sergeant David Wyatt served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He left a wife and two children. He was 35 years old. Sergeant Carson Holmquist, a husband and father to a little boy, served two tours in Afghanistan. Sergeant Holmquist was just 25 years old. There's Navy Petty Officer Second Class Randall Smith. According to family members, he saw the gunman, warned people around him saving lives. Lance Corporal Squire Wells's mother said, he died doing what he loved for the loved of his country and his family. Also receiving the Purple Heart, Sergeant Demonte Cheeley, who was shot in the thigh. Just a week later, he was back on duty, a true marine.
[21:50:07] Perspective now from Phil Mudd, a CNN counterterrorism analyst and CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen, author of the upcoming book "United States of Jihad.
Phil, did it surprise you the amount of time it took the FBI to determine that what happened in Chattanooga was terrorism?
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think it took longer than I would have expected but let's focus on a clear issue here. When you're considering whether something is an act of terrorism, you're not only looking at who the person is and what they attack, you're looking at motivation.
Terrorism is a political act and it's the murder of innocents in response to that political act. In this case, you have an individual who appears to have substance abuse problems, maybe some mental health problems. How do you determine the motivation of an individual whether it was a political act when you have those kinds of issues.
COOPER: Peter, to that point, it's not always clear cut, I guess. I mean, you have a killer, a terrorist here who had a problematic mental history. So you assume that played some sort of a role into whether or not he decided to do what he did.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONA SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah. I mean, you know, these cases are not often not clear cut. I mean, we had a case where a kind of a far right anti-Semitic guy attacked to a Jewish community center in Kansas City and he shouted, "Hail Hitler'' shortly after the attack. You know, then it's open and shot. He didn't have mental problems. But often when we look at these cases, you find that, you know, people sometimes have mixed motivations. And recall even the San Bernardino case where initially, they looked like, you know, a simple workplace violence shooting and people were very careful not to call it jihadism until it was very clear that of course it was.
So often, these cases, we can see that there is sometimes a mixed motive, sometimes a very clear motive or as in this Chattanooga case, it was complex because of the mental -- the history of mental problems and drug abuse.
COOPER: Yeah. Phil, I mean, I guess, for investigators to figure out the actual intent of an individual, particularly when there is some history of mental issues or substance abuse, it's got to be incredibly complicated.
MUDD: I think it's not only intent Anderson, it's determining the mental state of the individual. For example, in murder cases, we routinely say, if someone commits an act of mass murder, the judge will say, is the person mentally competent to have committed the act or should they go into an avenue where they might be committed to a mental institution.
For some reason, in this country, in terror cases, when someone commits an act of murder, we want to instantly say he's a Muslim, where the case of Chattanooga attack for example, a recruitment center and the military base, therefore, we understand his motivation.
I think this is similar to a murder case. We're saying we don't fully understand why he did what he did, for an individual who might have had something like bipolar disease, who might have had substance abuse problems. Therefore, we can't immediately discern whether it was a terror act.
I know people think this is politically correct. As a practitioner I'd say, this is pretty simple. If he's got these kinds of problems, how confident are you that you know what his mind set is.
COOPER: Yeah. Peter, what do you say to those who say this is either political correctness or, you know, something even more that there's a political motivation to not label something as terrorism because it doesn't play into, you know, the administration's line that things are more under control than they may be?
BERGEN: Well yeah, I would just, you know, agree with everything that Phil has said which is these things are complicated.
Remember the D.C. sniper case, were two guys who killed quite a number of people in the Washington, D.C. area, at one point, they made a passing reference to Osama Bin Laden.
I think most people look back on that case and suddenly, he wasn't tried as a terrorism case, as not being a terrorism case because, you know, people say things about or things all the time.
And so, getting to this question of what the actual motivation was? Is it really the cause of the attack? That can be very complicated. And at the end of the day, maybe to some degree, unknowable even to the people involved because to go and attack, you know, completely innocent people it's not, you know, ipso facto. It's not the act of somebody who's got their marbles completely together.
You know, usually there is something going on in their lives personally as well that can also be -- complicate the issue.
COOPER: So, to that idea of political correctness, when you were at the FBI, when you were the CIA, was that something you noticed, was that an issue?
MUDD: Not really because the people who were determining whether something was an act of terrorism were shielded and I participate in that process. When I looked at this act and I ask myself the question how would I consider this, what I consider a criminal act of terror act, it didn't occur to me that I might be judging this based on a political correctness standard. I looked at it and said, if I'm judging intent and there's a dead human being whom I can't question, who had some substantial personal issues, how can I be confident that I understand intent? So, I didn't really see the buffeting of the political winds affecting us when I was in government. I've seen this now outside government, but it wasn't an issue when we're determining cases back when I was at the bureau.
[21:55:11] COOPER: All right. Phil, Peter, thank you.
MUDD: Thank you.
BERGEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Up next tonight, remember that kid who drove drunk, killed four people avoided prison with the defense that he was too spoiled to know right from wrong and affluence defense. Well guess what, he's back in the news and on the run from police.
COOPER: A lot more happening tonight. Amara Walker has a 360 news and business bulletin, Amara.
AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, for the first time and nearly a decade, the federal reserve is raising short-term interest rates by a quarter percentage point. A small increase but it will affect millions of Americans, including mortgage seekers. The unanimous decision was widely expected and more gradual increases are expected next year.
North Korea has sentenced a Canadian pastor to life in prison for "subversive plot and activities" according to the state news agency. Reverend Hyeon Soo Lim was accused of committing illegal religious activities and false propaganda.
And a 360 follow out of Texas where an arrest warrant has been issued for Ethan Couch, the teenager who avoided jail after killing four people in a 2013 drunk and driving wreck near Fort Worth when he claimed he suffered from "affluenza" as part of his defense. Couch's probation officer can't find him or his mother after this video was posted online of him at a drinking party.
And look who swept through much of his media debut. That's Bei Bei, the new giant panda cub at the Smithsonian's National Zoo. He now weighs just over 17 pounds and will make his public debut next month. Just precious.
COOPER: Yes. Amara, thanks very much. That does it for us. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.