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Tel Aviv Shooting; Munich Train Reopens; Natalie Cole Dies; Cosby's Wife to Testify. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired January 1, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hunt for the person who opened fire at a pub in Israel's capital. Two people were killed in the middle of the afternoon in this shooting in Tel Aviv. It's 9:00 p.m. there now and night has long since fallen, but this killer is still on the loose.
And we now have this incredible surveillance video that gives us a glimpse of the shooter standing in what appears to be a market. He steps out into the open after putting his bag on top of those cars there and he fires off round after round. This video showing a glimpse of the shooter from another perspective here from inside of a cafe where you can see this happening from another angle.
Joining me now to talk more about this is CNN's Ian Lee. He's covering this from Jerusalem.
And, Ian, we only saw these glimpses of the shooting, but what are witnesses saying about this attack?
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, witnesses are telling us that it happened very quickly. That a lot of them heard it and really didn't see it take place. But two people who talked to Israel radio describe this man as being all dressed in black or dark colors. And as we see in this surveillance video, especially the first one that you showed, you see that he leaves that bag behind. We're also hearing that he left a clip behind from that gun. These will all be crucial pieces of evidence with this investigation going forward.
Now, we just heard a little while ago from the minister of public security. He said that right now they still don't know if this was criminal or a terrorist attack. But we have seen those two videos. Israel is a country with a lot of security cameras. There's likely to be more security footage out there that police are going to be going over, trying to look at which direction this suspect fled in. But right now we're hearing from Israel police that Tel Aviv is literally flooded right now with security officers looking for this person, although they're telling residents there to go about their daily lives, just be a little bit more precautious. But, again, from the Israeli police saying that they didn't have any intelligence leading up to this. So, right now, a big manhunt underway, Brianna.
KEILAR: All right, Ian Lee, thank you so much, as this story continues.
There's also been a frightening incident at a mosque in France. A driver tried to run over soldiers who were guarding the mosque. They opened fire after he rammed his car into them twice. The driver and a number of soldiers were injured. And all of this happening as two busy train stations in Munich, Germany, reopened after a terror threat closed them on New Year's Eve.
CNN's senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is following all of this for us out of London.
Give us the latest, Fred.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna.
Yes, and with that incident there in France, those soldiers were actually part of a special operation that France launched after the Paris terror attacks recently where they've decided to put extra security in front of religious places throughout the country. So you have them in front of synagogues, of course, churches, but mosques as well.
And from what we've gathered, the information, they say that those soldiers were waiting in front of that building. This man then was ordered to stop his car as he approached them. He didn't do that. Rammed into the group the first time, then reversed and tried to ram into them again, and that's when they opened fire. There was a scene later where the car of this man was stopped at the side of the road. It was a red station wagon.
He apparently was lightly wounded in the leg, as well as in the arm. We're hearing that anywhere between one and four soldiers were hurt in that incident as well. It's interesting because the French authorities at this point in time say it seems to be an isolated incident but they haven't been able to question the man yet, Brianna.
KEILAR: So, isolated. So they think it's a lone wolf attack?
PLEITGEN: Well, that's a - that's a big question at this moment. And certainly at this point in time the French authorities say they're not willing to speculate just yet. They simply don't know because they haven't been able to speak to this man yet. When they say isolated incident, they say it doesn't appear as though this was part of some sort of wider plot, but it still is very much unclear what exactly this man's motives were. Is this someone who had any sort of issues. This was someone who wanted some sort of political statement or something as part of this. It really is unclear at this point in time. But it certainly shows how on the edge the security services are there in France, of course, after the Paris terror attacks, but in Europe in general as they deal with this terror threaten that really is gulfing almost the entire continent at this point.
KEILAR: Update us on what happened in Munich, Germany, the train stations have now reopened at this point. Is there still concern, though, that there could be a terror attack in the coming days?
PLEITGEN: They say at this point in time they have no information that a terror attack could be imminent, but certainly the threat level there in Munich still remains very high. And I can tell you, you know, I've been covering Germany for a very long time and it's been a long time since I've read a press release by the police that I read last night with that sense of urgency, where they were saying that they believe that an attack could be imminent. They had an exact time when it was apparently supposed to take place, which was right at midnight.
They were then looking for five to seven people who apparently wanted to conduct terror attacks at the main Munich railway station or at another commuter railway station in the west of Munich. Right now the police is searching four individuals of Iraqi and Syrian descent. Apparently as part of the intelligence they received, they even got names of some of these apparent individuals, but they're not sure whether these are phony or whether they're real. They say at this point in time the manhunt is underway and they're trying to find out who exactly is behind this and whether or not this plot was real.
[14:05:26] KEILAR: A lot of information to follow up on.
Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much.
I want to go back to the story out of Tel Aviv now. One woman, a producer at "The Huffington Post," was on vacation there. She was near the pub that this happened outside of. She heard the gunshots. She witnessed something incredible in the moments after those shots rang out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGAN ROBERTSON, WITNESS TO TEL AVIV ATTACK (voice-over): I was in store - about five stores up, just north of where the shooting occurred. We heard multiple rounds of gunshots. And then actually people pulled over their cars, and this is something I had never seen before, usually in the United States, but leapt out of their cars, one man with a handgun, to go to pursue the individual who did this. So it was a lot of Israelis and people here in Tel Aviv running toward the scene as other people got away from it. So it was a bit of a confusing scene when it happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: There's so much to talk about here. I do want to bring in now Karen Greenburg, she's a director at the Center on National Security at Fordham University Law School.
Karen, thanks so much being with us.
And you say, and I think it feels this way for so many people, that terrorism has changed.
KAREN GREENBURG, DIRECTOR, CENTER ON NATIONAL SECURITY AT FORDHAM UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: You know, I don't know if it's changed. It's evolved to a point where what's changed is how the public and the police seem to address it. So you've seen a host of threats, some of which we don't know about, some of which have been made public, across the globe. But what you're really seeing is a measure of control by authorities, both of fear, of public sentiment and ability to handle these things. The one place where there seems to have been this attack, which was Israel, sort of the heart of how much terrorism language, much terrorism sentiment, particularly in the days of al Qaeda. So, in a sense, we - what we see is an evolution of the management, not just of terrorism, but of sentiment and fears about terrorism.
KEILAR: We - there were restaurant that were attacked in Paris. Now there's this shooting in broad daylight in Israel. Obviously the cause, they're still looking for at this point, but they're concerned it could be terrorism. Does this sound to you like perhaps a new wave of soft target attacks or lone wolf attacks?
GREENBURG: You know, you never know what's a new wave. What is new is that the - the lone wolf that you raised in prior interview, is this a lone wolf, is this an organized attack? What's really happening is that these two strands of terrorist attacks have begin to overlap. It can be planned, it can be a lone wolf, and so therefore the distinctions between crime and terrorism begin to get minimized because is this an individual who may have a certain sentiment, that was to attack civilians, or is this something organized? Does it really matter in the long run? And so I think we're seeing this sort of convolution of two different things that are going to be harder to separate out and are going to pose some new challenges for law enforcement.
KEILAR: We've seen different cities responding to different threats, even recently as L.A. versus New York and whether they shut down schools or not for it. And in Germany, we've seen authorities shut down two train stations because of a threat that they're still trying to figure out if it's real. How should cities be responding to these kinds of threats when it's unclear to them whether they're really substantiated?
GREENBURG: You know, I think that's an excellent question. And I think what we've seen in the wake of San Bernardino and then the closing down of schools in L.A. is that each - I think each municipality, each state, each country is going to adopt its own response, and it's going to be a response that takes into account public fears, the ability of their law enforcement agencies and intelligence agency to feel like they have control of the situation, and it's going to be different in different places, and that's what we need to get used to.
And I think that's OK. I think there was a lot of criticism of L.A. for shutting down their school system and I think that's understandable. But everybody has to do what they're comfortable with. Not all cities are like New York or for that matter Tel Aviv, which have been living with a terrorist threat for a very long time, thinking about it, and have the kind of resources to deploy that other cities may not have. So I think you'll see a variety over time. There's not - it's not a cookie cutter solution. And I think that's wise and it reflects some kind of judgment.
KEILAR: Yes, and L.A., so close to San Bernardino, clearly that factored into some of the decision making there.
Karen Greenburg, thank you so much. Happy New Year to you. GREENBURG: Happy New Year to you, Brianna.
KEILAR: Just ahead, a judge ordering that Bill Cosby's wife must testify in the defamation case against him. Why their private conversations are not privileged.
[14:10:07] Plus, did prosecutors hide information from the defense in the case against the Baltimore cops? New information shows Freddie Gray may have already had a back injury.
And some sad news out of Hollywood. Singer Natalie Cole has died. Some of her hits and one of her last CNN interviews ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATALIE COLE, MUSICIAN (singing): Unforgettable, in every way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: A legendary songstress and multi Grammy winner, born into music royalty, has passed away. Natalie Cole died last night in Los Angeles. She was 65. And her family says she suffered from complications due to ongoing health issues. Natalie Cole followed in the footsteps of her legendary father, singer Nat King Cole. She won nine Grammys throughout her career, including best new artist for her 1975 debut album. Her voice in one word, unforgettable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATALIE COLE, MUSICIAN (singing): Unforgettable, in every way.
NAT KING COLE, MUSICIAN (singing): And forever more.
NATALIE COLE: And forever more.
And I missed you like crazy. I missed you like crazy. No matter what I say or do.
This will be, the one I've waited for. This will be, the first time anyone has loved me. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, oh.
[14:15:03] I see reflections going in the air, telling me the way to move.
Now, honey, it ain't your money, cause I got plenty of that.
Dreaming! Daydreaming and I'm thinking of you. Daydreaming and I'm thinking of you
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Joining me now to talk more about that incredible voice is CNN entertainment analyst Chris Witherspoon. Chris is also the entertainment editor at the grio.com. Chris, I know that you interviewed Natalie Cole somewhat recently.
Tell me what she told you sort of about her recent struggles. I mean 65 is really - it's really too young to lose anyone, especially someone like Natalie Cole.
CHRIS WITHERSPOON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT ANALYST: Totally. I interviewed her actually in 2013. So she had just had a kidney transplant in 2009. It was for her new album, "Natalie Cole in Espanol." And she attributed the success of the album and kind of the passion that she infused in that album to a woman named Jessica (ph) from El Salvador, who the kidney that she got, that was from her.
But she also paid a lot of her success or attributed a lot of it to her father. Her father is an icon. And she kind of stands in his shadow. She's recorded a couple of duets with him in the past. But, yes, it was an amazing, amazing interview. And she was so down to earth. A nine time Grammy winner - Grammy award winner, but so down to earth, so human and just - you could see her heart or feel her heart.
KEILAR: Yes, and that's - I think that's what a lot of people remember about her and I know her family is just devastated by this loss. She - she did have some health issues. She - and she was really open about it, that she had struggled with drug abuse. She had Hepatitis C that she had gotten through using needles through her drug abuse. Why do you think that she was so public and candid about her addiction and her health problems?
WITHERSPOON: I think she used her own health problems kind of as a teaching example for people to kind of, you know, get - or get more awareness about what was happening with drug addiction. And she was candid about getting Hepatitis C from drug use. So something that was very personal to her, but I think also she realized it was an opportunity for folks to learn and to wake up to what was happening and the perils of drug addiction.
KEILAR: Did she talk to you about what some of her favorite times were in this, you know, multi decade career or what her favorite parts of that ride were?
WITHERSPOON: Yes, aside from her father, from being, you know, being able to live with him, learn from him, kind of get that influence from music from him, she also had a close personal friendship with Whitney Houston. One of the candid moments in our interview was her talking about traveling and being on this tour with Whitney Houston and going from city to city and spending nights in hotel rooms with her laughing and giggling. And she also was very in touch with what was happening in music right now. She called Beyonce the Madonna of our generation and also had just met Adele the day before I interviewed her and was so excited about Adele. So she was so in touch with what was happening right now, and also passionate about putting out more work herself.
KEILAR: Very fascinating. Chris, thank you so much for sharing that with us. Chris Witherspoon. And happy New Year to you as well.
WITHERSPOON: Thank you. Thank you. KEILAR: So Natalie Cole appeared on CNN's "Larry King Live" several
times to talk about her struggles with Hepatitis C. When her doctors told her that she needed a kidney transplant, she came on his show with a heartfelt plea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: You can go out and sing.
NATALIE COLE, MUSICIAN: Absolutely.
KING: You can tour.
KING: But let's say you're touring, you're opening in Detroit.
KING: There's a center there where they can hook you up?
KING: All dialysis is the same?
COLE: All the facilities are the same.
KING: They do the same thing?
COLE: They know my - I have a wonderful team of people at my facility here in Los Angeles that I tell them where I'm going, and they make phone calls and make appointments and - it's really quite amazing. I have been on dialysis in Istanbul, Milan, Indonesia, Manilla, London. It's amazing. It's really fascinating.
KING: Well, we're amazed by - I'm going to give this to you. We'll check with it later. We have to ask the question. These are all e- mails from dozens, dozens of people offering to be tested to see if they can match, who want to give you a kidney.
COLE: That's - that's amazing. That is really amazing.
KING: What do you make of that?
COLE: I - I don't know. I always felt that it was just so - so strange, you know, to solicit to strangers, you know, for a kidney. But people - people are really great. There's some great human beings out there.
KING: What then kept you going to get on the stage? What does keep -
COLE: (INAUDIBLE). I think it was the only thing I had left, Larry, my voice. God didn't take my voice. He took my health for a minute, you know, but my voice was still there.
And now we should talk about my music. KING: I'm going to. You think - I think your father would be proud.
COLE: I think he would, too.
KING: I have no doubt that he would be proud.
COLE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:20:05] KEILAR: One of those incredible human beings, the mother of an organ donor, was watching that show. And then two months later, Cole was given a new kidney. Cole's family said today Natalie fought a fierce, courageous battle, dying how she lived, with dignity, strength and honor.
KEILAR: A new year and a new voice will finally be heard in the scandal engulfing Bill Cosby. In five days, Cosby's wife of 52 years, Camille, will be deposed by the attorney of the seven accusers who are suing the comic legend for defamation. This is under a Massachusetts judge's order. And their lawsuit says that Cosby called them liars for their sex assault claims against him and Cosby has countersued, saying the seven women hurt his reputation, derailing his plans for a comedy show on NBC.
Cosby is now out on a million dollars bail. Just two days ago he was charged with several felony counts of indecent assault in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. The alleged victim in that case is not part of this lawsuit with the seven women.
So why do lawyers in the defamation suit want to speak to Camille Cosby? Well, here's the man to answer that, Joseph Cammarata. He is the attorney for the seven women who are suing Cosby. And also with me is CNN's Jean Casarez, who has been all over this story and was in the - actually in the courtroom the other day in Montgomery County.
Welcome to you, Joseph. Thank you so much for being with us.
[14:25:04] JOSEPH CAMMARATA, ATTORNEY FOR SEVEN ACCUSERS SUING COSBY FOR DEFAMATION: Thank you for having me.
KEILAR: What specifically is - yes, of course. What specifically is the knowledge that Camille Cosby has? I understand it has to do with the fact that she is her husband's business manager.
CAMMARATA: Well, first of all, she is his wife of some 50 some odd years. She's known Mr. Cosby since she was 19. She has information that's relevant to the issues in this case. For example, his relationships that he's had with other women, his sexual proclivities, his use of Quaaludes. She is, as you correctly pointed out, his business manager. Mr. Cosby maintains that my seven clients gathered together and, in essence, conspired to derail his - Mr. Cosby's re- emergence on NBC or Netflix. And so clearly, as a business manager, she'll have information as to what impact, if any, these women had on his business.
And so there are many, many topics that are relevant. Another one that comes to mind is that it's been reported in the press that Mrs. Cosby is leading a public relations effort to get out in front of the accusations that have been made by my clients against Mr. Cosby. And so we have been permitted to ask her questions. We intend to do so on January 6th in Springfield, Massachusetts.
KEILAR: Do you expect that her attorney will be able to assert privilege between - if you're asking her questions about interactions that she's had with her husband, some of that could definitely be protected, right? I mean is that what you're expecting?
CAMMARATA: No, no, and no. Let me tell you why.
KEILAR: Why is that? Why would you have - yes, why - why would you have the ability to do that?
CAMMARATA: Let me tell you why. Because Massachusetts law does not recognize a privilege, a protection against obtaining communications between a husband and a spouse. What the law does provide is that a - the testimony that may be given cannot be used at trial, is not admissible or able to be presented to a jury. However, that information may be gathered in a deposition and it may be used and assist in developing other information that could be admitted into a trial.
The Cosby lawyers did ask the court and raised that claim of privilege with the judge in their attempt to prevent us from taking her deposition. The judge rejected their arguments and said there is no such privilege and that it's one of competence, meaning the ability to use that testimony only at trial, which does not preclude a deposition, a fact-finding question/answer process before trial.
KEILAR: Jean, tell us about how Camille Cosby has talked about these allegations against her husband in recent months.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, she really hasn't. I mean several times they've been out in public and she's been by his side. They appear to be a very close couple as they are in their senior years now. So, obviously, the knowledge that she may or may not have is critical here to the plaintiffs in this case. But she would be the silent one as he would talk.
But I do remember the allegation earlier this year that she was in a sense behind some of the statements that had come out. And, you know, the original suit here, Tamara Green being really the primary plaintiff in this that came forward, she's alleging many things, but two separate things. "Newsweek" magazine in February, 2014, when she spoke out and the response they got from Cosby saying that she was a liar. And then "The Washington Post" article shortly after that, and then Cosby saying that she was a liar. And the question is, who was behind that. And business speaking, it was important to, one would say, to save that business and to preclude it from having any harm come from the business. And what Mr. Cammarata is saying, I understand, that they need to see if that business manager had any part in that.
KEILAR: How hurtful or maybe would this have no impact on Bill Cosby's case? What - what are the possible outcomes here, Jean, from this deposition of his wife?
CASAREZ: Now you're talking about the criminal case.
CASAREZ: In the case, two separate and distinct things. But with a deposition, you never know what will happen. You never know - it is sworn testimony, so you never know what will be said. But the criminal charges are those against Bill Cosby and Bill Cosby alone. And, obviously, a decade earlier in regard to one person, Andrea Constand, someone that he knew in Pennsylvania.
KEILAR: OK. I do want to look at something that actually Bill Cosby talked about. This was in 1991 here on CNN actually. Let's watch this.
[14:30:07] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Knew what it was.
BILL COSBY, ACTOR: Spanish Fly was the thing that all boys at - from age 11 on up.