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Clinton, Sanders Neck-And-Neck In Iowa, N.H.; Borger/Biden Interview; American Murdered In Italy; Biden Doesn't Go After Sanders On Gun Control; Clinton "Authenticity" Still An Issue?; Could Clinton Lose Iowa, N.H. And Still Win The Nomination; Borgen: Biden Will Support Democratic Nominee; Will Michael Bloomberg Run For The White House?; Video Shows Military Raid On "El Chapo" Hideout; Tipster: Threat Not Over Yet In Philadelphia; American Woman Found Dead In Italy; American Woman Found Strangled To Death In Italy. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 11, 2016 - 21:00   ET



[21:02:22] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 ANCHOR: Just past 9:00 Eastern time coming up on crunch time for Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and perhaps, second guessing time for Vice President Joe Biden who decided not to run this year.

So, any regrets? He sat down with our Gloria Borger for an exclusive interview. We'll bring back to you momentarily. But first, the ones who are running and running now very close in new polling.

A pair of new surveys showing tight races in Iowa, as well as New Hampshire and some big differences in where each candidate gets the strongest support. Breaking it all down for us by the numbers, our Chief National Correspondent John King, John?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, in both early states Iowa and New Hampshire, the Democratic race is about as close as it can get.

Let's start in Iowa, brand new polling out from the NBC/Wall Street Journal/Marist Poll. Hillary Clinton at 48 percent, Bernie Sanders at 45 percent, Martin O'Malley at distant third, at just 5 percent.

Let's break this race down. It's really close if you ask Democrats, they favor Clinton 54 to 39. But among independents, Bernie Sanders has a big edge, 62 to 29. Not that much of an ideological difference. Liberal split about evenly. Moderate split about evenly. But here is something interesting in Iowa. Men favor Sanders by quite a big margin, 56 to 39. Women, Hillary Clinton with a 20-point lead, 56 to 35. Remember this number when we move on to New Hampshire.

This is the key for Bernie Sanders, just like Donald Trump, he needs new voters to turn out. If you've never voted in an Iowa caucus before but you are likely democratic voter, 51 percent for Sanders, 41 percent to Hillary Clinton. If you've done this before and you're a Democrat, 51 percent for Clinton, 42 percent for Sanders. So Sanders needs to turn out new voters on caucus night.

Now, let's move on to the race in New Hampshire. Sanders with a slight edge here of 50 to 46 percent, but again, that's statistically a tie within the margin of error. Very close race there, so let's break it down.

Just like in Iowa, Hillary Clinton wins among those who say I'm a Democrat. Bernie Sanders wins by a sizable number by those who say I'm an independent but I'll vote in the democratic primary.

Here is the difference. Remember, Iowa, they split the liberals. Sanders has a slight edge, pretty good edge actually here in New Hampshire. And Sanders with a slight edge among those who say they're moderate.

So ideologically, you have more of to split in Sanders' favor in the state of New Hampshire. And again, significant Sanders wins just like he did in Iowa significantly among men but the gender gap not as much in Clinton's favor among women in New Hampshire. That's why this race is so close in New Hampshire and why Sanders has the slightest of edge. Hillary Clinton, not as far ahead among women as she would like to be.

And lastly, look at this, here under 45 and you're likely democratic voter in New Hampshire, 66 percent for Sanders, 33 percent for Hillary Clinton. But, flip it over. If you're 45 or older, Hillary Clinton has a 51 percent to 42 percent edge.

So, Anderson, it all come down to who turns out especially for Bernie Sanders both in Iowa and New Hampshire.

[21:05:00] Younger voters, new voters to the process, but as we countdown to the days to Iowa and then New Hampshire at the moment, boom, rock them, sock them, robot, and very close race for the Democrats in both states.

COOPER: Yeah, amazing numbers, John. Thanks very much. Given the numbers, given the way the race is unfolding, you really have to wonder what the other big name the Democratic Party must be thinking.

Right about now, Vice President Joe Biden has allegedly kept his own counsel since deciding not to run for president. Tonight, his thoughts on that and a whole lot more. CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger got the exclusive interview, here is part one starting with an issue that's always been deeply important to him.


GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Last week, the president was talking about gun control. He wrote a piece in which he introduced a litmus test for his political support of democratic candidates. And he said, "Either you're with us, all the way on gun reform, or I'm not going to support you."

JOE BIDEN, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't think he said that. But what he said was, "Unless you have a reasonable position on guns."

BORGER: Well, doesn't that mean you're either with us?

BIDEN: No, not exactly.

BORGER: Well, so let me ask you this, then. Bernie Sanders -- Senator Sanders has a history on this. He has in the past voted to protect gun manufacturers from liability. Is this a shot across the bow at Bernie Sanders?

BIDEN: Well, Bernie Sanders has said that he thought the president's approach is a correct approach. Bernie Sanders said that he thinks there should be liability now. And so...

BORGER: Well, he said he is -- he might reconsider his position.

BIDEN: Yeah, OK. But he -- look, one of the purposes the president has and I have, we want to affect the attitude of the nominees. We've worked too hard the last seven years to take the party to a place in the country, a place we think it should be. And so what little influence I may have and he may have on who the nominee is and what the nominee says, we're not going to be ashamed with that one.

BORGER: So does Bernie Sanders have to change his position on gun manufacturers in order...


BORGER: ... to have your support and you out there campaigning for him, should he be the nominee for the president?

BIDEN: No, no, Bernie Sanders has to do is say the Second Amendment says which he has of late, the Second Amendment says, you can limit who can own a gun. That people who are criminals shouldn't have guns. People who are schizophrenic and have mental illnesses should not own guns and he said that.

BORGER: So he's OK with you?

BIDEN: Yes, he's OK. Look, Bernie is doing a heck of a job. I think we have three great candidates out there. I really mean this. They're actually debating issues.

BORGER: Donald Trump right now is the Republican front runner, no doubt about it. Let me ask you, is he qualified to be president of the United States and a leader on the world stage?

BIDEN: Anyone in the American public says they want to be president is qualified to be president. I know that sounds like I'm avoiding the question and that's not my style.

BORGER: You are. You are.

BIDEN: No, no.

BORGER: OK. BIDEN: I want to make that clear at the front end. I think though he's an incredibly divisive figure. The country has never done well on a leader of a country appeals to people's fears as opposed to their hopes. That's what worries me about Donald Trump. If Donald Trump gets a nomination and wins the election, if he's as smart as I think he is, he's going to regret having said the things he said and done.

The whole idea is we're talking before about how to pull the country together for God sake, pull the politics together down here. How does Donald Trump do that? How does Donald Trump on the tension he's on now trying to separate people based on their ethnicity, based on their origin, based on, I mean, it's just -- it's divisive. It's not healthy.

BORGER: Well, you know, he -- Putin has called Trump an outstanding and talented personality and Trump has said about Putin, at least he's a leader. You deal an awful lot with foreign leaders. How would you see Trump on the world stage?

BIDEN: I would hope he's have an extremely qualified staff with him. I would hope he'd have people from the last administration and other Republican administrations who were substantively grounded. And...

BORGER: You're saying he's not substantive?

BIDEN: No, he's not, so far. Not that, I mean, he can be but he has no background in foreign policy. It's one thing to have an assessment of Putin's personality and Putin of him, that's OK. But, tell me what he knows about strategic doctrine. Tell me what he knows about the nuclear equation with the United States and tell me what he knows about China-Soviet -- China-Russian relations.

I mean, I don't know, maybe he's keeping it all a secret but he hadn't spoken to any of the substances so far, none of the substance. So I think he would be -- most world leaders would hope that he had a couple crash graduate courses before he start to try to exercise the role of president.

[21:10:05] BORGER: As we all know, you were thinking long and hard yourself about running for the presidency. And you decided it was a no go. And you've said you regret it every day.

BIDEN: Yeah.

BORGER: Tell me why.

BIDEN: Well in response to a question I did say -- look, I made the absolute right decision for a family and I made...

BORGER: But do you regrettably...

BIDEN: ... what I regret is and I'm still going to be able to do it is, I care deeply about these issues. I've spent my whole adult life and I was 29 years old working on foreign policy and domestic policy and I cared deeply about it. And so, I regret this and I regret not having a louder voice, sound of that, but where I'm the Vice President of the United States for another year in office and we have an opportunity to get a lot more done. We've done a great deal and not with standing the fiction on the other side.

We've done a great deal. We've taken this country from chaos to recovery, we were in the verge of resurgence, we generally we are better positioned than any nation in the world economically and politically. And so there's so much we can do and the opportunities we have in life sciences and the opportunities we have in the breakthroughs that are going to occur in the next four to six years there are astounding.

BORGER: Let me ask you about the race.

BIDEN: Yeah.

BORGER: That you're not in.


BORGER: And now we see that Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are actually running neck and neck in Iowa and in New Hampshire. Why do you think Hillary Clinton is struggling?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, I have been interviewed and I don't know that you and I talked about it. I don't want to say that for certain but we may have. I thought for the last six months they were neck and neck in both places. I never bought the idea that there were somehow that remember when he was up by 15 points in New Hampshire and he was down by 15 point that's not the way this process works as you and I both know, OK.

I'm much older than you but you covered a lot of this and, so I'm not surprised that it is viewed as neck and neck, but I'm also will be surprised if the pundits turn out to be right. They hardly ever are in Iowa and New Hampshire. So, I'm not.

BORGER: But why is she struggling? I mean yeah -- you say, I mean we consider she was an overwhelming favorite and...

BIDEN: Well, I think that's part of the reason.

BORGER: She's a democratic socialist.

BIDEN: Yeah, but it will and we, you know, if Bernie Sanders never said he was a democratic socialist, based on what he's saying people wouldn't be calling him a democratic socialist. That's how he characterizes himself and sort of European terms that democratic socialist parties in Europe but...

BORGER: But why is she having trouble?

BIDEN: Well, I think that Bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real and he has credibility on it and that is the absolute enormous concentration of wealth in a small group of people with a middle class now being able to be shown being left out. There used to be a basic bargain. If you contributed to the profitability of enterprise, you got to share in the profit. That's been broken, productivity is up, wages are stagnant.

BORGER: But Hillary is talking about that as well.

BIDEN: Well it's -- but it's relatively new for Hillary to talk about that. Hillary's focus has been other things up to now and that's been Bernie's -- no one questions, Bernie's authenticity on those issues.

BORGER: And they question hers as you said?

BIDEN: Well, I think they question everybody's who hasn't been talking about it all along. But I think she's come forward with some really thoughtful approaches to deal with the issue, but I just think -- and look, you know, everybody, you know, it's the old thing, no one, everybody wants to be the favorite. No one wants to be the prohibited favorite.

And so it's an awful high bar for her to meet that she was the absolute prohibit favorite. I never thought she was the prohibited favorite. I don't think she even thought she was a prohibited favorite. So I think it's, I think it's, you know, everything is sort of coming down to earth, just settling in but it's not over.

BORGER: So, if Hillary Clinton should lose Iowa and New Hampshire, is there any way that you would possibly take another look at this race?

BIDEN: No, look, I...

BORGER: The door is shut.

BIDEN: But first of all, even if Hillary loses both, I haven't thought this through, it's a long way to go in the nomination. And, you know, so it's one thing theoretically to win both of those, if she go into South Carolina, it's going to be a pretty rough sledding down there for Bernie and for and another guy is in, O'Malley he's a qualified guy, this kind of a serious governor. But...

BORGER: So you're closing the door?

BIDEN: No, I don't think. I don't, I know there is any door to open.


[21: 15:02] COOPER: More of Gloria's exclusive interview with the vice president after the break, including how he's been doing in the months since losing his son Beau to cancer. Later tonight an American woman murdered in Italy and the echoes of the Amanda Knox case could not be louder. Need to tell then how the Italian authority says it's going to be different this time.


COOPER: In the last segment, Vice President Biden turned a very sharp eye at the 2016 race and part two of his exclusive conversation with our Gloria Borger, the political becomes personal, as he talks about he and his family have been doing since the passing of his son Beau of cancer nearly eight months ago. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: I just want to ask on how you're doing.

BIDEN: We're doing well. And look, anybody whose been through this kind of thing and millions of people have know the -- and I know from losing my wife and daughter years ago that you got to get through the season.

Thanksgiving was hard. For the same, for four years were all together, went the same place in we talked in and did the same thing. We were kind of a traditional family, you know there's the high bound.

Christmas where everybody moves into my house for the last 20 years four days ahead of Christmas, all must they laterally move in and leave their homes and move in. And you know, the idea of an empty chair, you know, it was something no one looked forward to but everybody, you know, they are tough.

[21:20:00] And, you know, we're focussing on the inspiration of Beau, rather than the loss of Beau. But, you know, it's always we're as a family, we're stick in together, were getting through it and you know...

BORGER: How are you?

BIDEN: I'm good. Look, I miss him everyday for God sake. I mean this was he was my soul. Hunter is my heart. He was my soul and my daughter is my comfort. I mean it's interesting, you know, you have more than one child. They all -- you love them all equally but they all have a slightly different relationship and Beau was, Beau was my soul. Beau is my conscience. Beau was my -- Beau is like, he was like the little boy who when he was six years old he was 30 years old. You know? I mean, and Hunter is my heart where there's passion and my daughter -- but, so, its, you know, I think about him all the time but I try to focus on what we have.

And by the way, his -- my two grandchildren, his two children are beautiful and smart and you would expect a grand pop to say that but, you know, I see them all the time and so everybody is -- everybody's life is incredible. Halle is like my daughter. I mean so, you know, we're just focusing on, you know, but Beau's anyway. We're, I'm talking to much about Beau, I apologize.

BORGER: No, no, that's all right.

BIDEN: Anyway but thank God, you know, and, you know, you said you- all mourn with me. The truth of the matter is, a lot of you did. I knew it was sincere and it mattered. It really matters.

BORGER: Let me ask you about your next big thing.

BIDEN: Yeah.

BORGER: Which is the moon shot for cancer as you call it. What did you learn as the parent of a cancer patient about how realistic and achievable this moon shot really is?

BIDEN: I learned two things. First of all, when you have a son or daughter, husband, wife, someone you adore, you become as educated as you can as quickly as you can particularly when you know it's a serious form, et cetera. So I learned a lot about if -- for lack of the better phrase, the mechanics of cancer and the delivery system and there is so many, so many changes that just on the cause.

But then it was I got into it more deeply after Beau passed, I realized a lot of this is siloed. I have now met with over 200 oncologists and cancer research centers and philanthropies involved and what everyone acknowledges privately and what I hope I can do, they think I may be convener I maybe able to bring them all together and...

BORGER: What do you want to do?

BIDEN: What I want to do is I want break down the silos, have a meeting to access to information all the researchers have one another's research, as well, being able to have a conduit to get out to places not just the great cancer hospitals and, you know, the centers of study, to get oncologists out in the field, the information they already have that they don't have access to.

BORGER: Let me ask you as we head into the state of the union. Is there a moment you're going to remember with the president?

BIDEN: Well, yeah, there is one. He may be embarrassed. My -- we were having lunch and it was pretty clear Beau was having trouble with his speech and he still had three months to go, four months to go to attorney general and my son, Beau Biden was the most studios honorable, straight guy and I knew if my son thought he was losing his cognitive capability, he wouldn't stand as attorney general. He would resign. Thank God he took all these tests and there was no cognitive impact but his speech, made it, it was affecting his speech center.

And, so I was having lunch with the president and he was the only guy in my family I confided all along in everything that was going on with Beau because I felt a responsibility to do that so that he knew where I was and my thinking, and I said, you know, my concern is, I said if Beau resigns, he has no -- there's no -- nothing to fall back on, his salary. And that I said I worked it out I said but Jill and I will sell the house to be in good shape.

But he get up and said don't sell the house. Promise me you won't sell the house. And he's going to be mad at me for saying this. He said "I'll give you the money. Whatever you need, I'll give you the money. Don't, Joe, promise me, promise me." I said I don't think we'll have to anyway. He said promise me. And then I'll never forget the eulogy he delivered for Beau. And when Beau had his stroke, when he had a stroke and they thought it turned out the beginning of the glioblastoma and he came running down the hallway.

[21:25:07] And in short he said, "Joe, Joe, is he OK?" His love of family, and my family, and my love of his family, you know, his two grand daughter his two children and my granddaughters are best friends. His number two daughter, my number three granddaughter, they vacation together and play in teams together and they sleep at each other's homes all the time. It's really its personal. It's family.

BORGER: Do you have any idea what you're going to be doing your first day out of public office? Let say January 21st, 2017.

BIDEN: I know I will be -- I mean the process of trying to work that out right now, look, here is the thing. You've known me a long time. I mean since I've been 27 years old, every morning I get up, I focused on an issue. I focused on a public policy. This will be the first time and then I decided wait, I don't have to stop focusing on that.

The question is what for when to use to continue that focus. My dad used to have an expression, no man or woman should retire unless they know exactly what they are going to do the next morning they get up. I'm working on that right now.


COOPER: It's good piece of advice right there. Quite a conversation, still plenty to talk about. Next, my conversation with Gloria and Former Obama White House insider David Axelrod about what Vice President Biden said their about President Obama and his remarks about Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton that have raised a lot of eyebrows.


[21:30:32] COOPER: Vice President Biden certainly made news in his conversation with our Gloria Borger who joins us along with CNN Senior Political Commentator, David Axelrod a Former Top Political Advisor to President Obama.

Gloria, your interview with the Vice President was interesting given how the emphasis the White House is putting on the President Executive actions on guns right now that he really didn't go after Sanders that all when the subject came up.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, he really didn't. I mean, I asked him specifically whether Bernie Sanders needed to change his position on limiting the liability of gun manufacturers and he said no, no, no. He said what Bernie Sanders has to do is say that the Second Amendment says that you can keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

And as, you know, the president has kind of established a litmus test on this which seems to be a little bit more stringent than what the vice president was saying.

COOPER: And David, in the vice president was praising Bernie Sanders authenticity but basically punted a bit when it came to talking about Hillary Clinton. How big of a challenge does authenticity continue to be for her?

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Well, I think authenticity is a leading indicator for presidential candidates and obviously this has been something that has challenged her in the past and so she's going to have to continue to work at this.

I just want to make a point on the gun issue. I don't think the White House meant when the president issued his statement to jackpot Bernie Sanders. The Clinton campaign I think probably wisely jumped on it and I think the White House is now trying to course correct so as not to look like they're putting their thumb on the scale.

And so I think that was part of what Biden was doing. Now whether this is a little ouchiness leftover from the whole presidential part they do that they did during the fall, I would say that's probably true as well, but really here I think they didn't mean to put Sanders in the position of being on the wrong side of them.

BORGER: But, you know, on the economy.

COOPER: David though -- go ahead, Gloria.

BORGER: That on the economic issues, what was interesting to me about Biden was he sort of came out and said, Bernie Sanders has credibility on this issue because he was out there early on and that Hillary Clinton is a little bit newer to these issues.


BORGER: And I'm sure that something the Clinton campaign isn't really going to want to hear very much.

COOPER: David, you look at the latest numbers, and Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton really neck-and-neck in both Iowa and New Hampshire. How likely do you think it is Hillary Clinton's campaign could end up following the exact path of her husband took losing both Iowa and New Hampshire before going on to get the nomination?

AXELROD: I don't know if I would say it was likely but it certainly very possible. The fact is that Bernie Sanders has been trailing in Iowa for sometime now. She's had a small but, you know, but discernible lead in that state. It seems to be tightening up. New Hampshire always been a crab shoot for Hillary because of Bernie's nearness to that state he has a home court advantage.

If she were to lose both, I still think she wins the nomination. If she will to win Iowa, I think the nomination is fairly well secured. So I think this would lengthen the race if she were to lose the first two races.

COOPER: Gloria, when you go back to the fall when the vice president announced that he wouldn't run, I mean, he seem someone less than enthusiast he has to go out excessively praising Clinton.


COOPER: Do you see that changing all? Do you think he would actually end up going on the campaign trail stumping for her if she gets the nomination?

BORGER: Of course I think he would. He will support the democratic nominee and he made it very clear to me that he wants to go out and continue to be a factor in politics. Look, obviously, when he was considering the race, there seemed to be no love lost because he was going to challenge Hillary Clinton potentially.

And I think if you read between the lines in this interview, Bernie Sanders populism really appeals to Joe Biden and that's why he kind of couldn't, you know, he came out and said, you know, Bernie Sanders has an awful lot of credibility on this issues here, so went out of his way I should say to say look, Hillary Clinton has come up with some great proposals during this campaign, but I do think there sort of a sense that he thinks she's a Johnny come lately to this sort of issue of income inequality.

COOPER: And David, I just want to quickly ask you on the Mike Bloomberg thing, you know, the story there's out there...

[21:35:03] AXELROD: Yes.

COOPER: ... that he is looking at the possibility. I mean do you think there is a viable lane for him?

AXELROD: Well, it would have to be a very specific set of circumstances. You know, if he -- if the Republican Party nominated, say, a Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz and he discerned weakness in the democratic nominee either because he viewed Sanders as too far to the left or Hillary as too vulnerable because of her own issues.

You know, I would think he would look at it. But, let's also remember that Mike Bloomberg is looked at this before.

COOPER: Right.

AXELROD: It is a very, very taxing difficult enterprise to try and run for president as an independent. The system isn't set up for it. So, you know, my guess is that this doesn't happen but I've been -- I also, my guess was that Donald Trump wouldn't be the front runner in January, so what do I know?

BORGER: What do you know?

COOPER: You and everybody else. Yeah, David Axelrod, thank you Gloria Borger as well, thanks.


COOPER: In one click now, President Obama's final State of the Union Address obviously is tomorrow night our coverage begins at 7:00 P.M. Eastern with the speech and expert analysis for hours after that. I hope you join us.

Just ahead, there's breaking news; we have new video of the deadly raid that led to the capture of "El Chapo". The incredible of this video shows the chaos that interrupting when it military stormed the drug lords hideout.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [21:40: 22] COOPER: Tonight, new developments in the shooting of a Philadelphia police officer. Surveillance camera as, you know, captured the attack. Officer Jessie Hartnett was sitting in his patrol car when the gunman approached, open fire. Officer Hartnett was shot three times in the arm. Incredibly, he managed to get of his car, shoot the suspect as he ran away.

Authority said the suspect Edward Archer told police he had pledge allegiance to ISIS and now authorities were looking into a new tip from an anonymous citizen about Archer's alleged radical ties.

Our Jason Carroll joins me now with the latest. So what do we know about this tip that came in.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Anderson, the tip came in on Saturday, came from a woman who told an officer that Archer had belonged to a group that was radicalized.

The police union weighing in on this a little bit more about this tip saying, that they heard that the tipster said that police should be looking at, at least three other men and that Archer was the least radicalized of the group.

So, what they have to do now is, Anderson, is try and determine, investigators have to try and determine if this is just street talk. Is this rumor or is there something more to this?

COOPER: Right. They want -- obviously, you need to know how credible the information.


COOPER: Have they been able to determine that at this morning?

CARROLL: Well, this is what they're working on but, you know, but at least for right now, police are saying that they are taking this tip seriously. They're working along with the FBI as well.

What they're going to be doing is, going back, interviewing everyone that Archer knew, especially those who knew him closely, going back to the mosques where he worshipped, to interview Imams there. Once again, all in an attempt to try and determine if this tip is valid.

COOPER: And how is the officer doing, Officer Hartnett?

CARROLL: Well, you know, he's in stable but critical condition. Police Union saying that he had an operation today. He's going to have multiple operations as you know. He was shot in the arm three times. He has extensive nerve damage.

One of the interesting things is his father spoke out saying that he's a tough guy. But when you look at that video there and see how closely he was shot at close range, he's also a very lucky man, as well.

COOPER: Yeah and had the presence of mind to get on the radio, call for backup and help but also chase the guy and shoot him. Jason, appreciate the reporting.

CARROLL: You bet.

COOPER: Now, the breaking news in Mexico. Tonight we've got new video showing the deadly raid at the hideout of drug kingpin El Chapo. Take a look at this. It lasts for about three minutes. It's amazing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): Turn around, turn around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): Stay calm man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): Two more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): Stay calm man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): Two more. Go enter.


COOPER: El Chapo had been on the run for six months after breaking out of a maximum security prison.

Tonight, awaiting extradition to the U.S., he is to face drug charges that process that could take months. And at surprising twist actor Sean Penn has also become a part of the story.

Martin Savidge has the very latest.


MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, dramatic new video of a deadly raid that led to the capture of one of the world's most wanted fugitives. Five people killed in a shootout at the safe house of Joaquin Guzman, better known as El Chapo.

This may have been the next stop in this incredible drama. Look down here. That appears to be some kind of storm drain, sewer, but as you can see, large enough for a person to get through and according to the authorities, El Chapo and an associate managed to escape from the home through a sewer.

But they didn't get far and El Chapo was captured soon after. This as new details are emerging about a rolling stone interview published over the weekend revealing the notorious Mexican drug lord met with a Hollywood A lister, Sean Penn and Mexican actress Kate Del Castillo while still on the run.

The meeting along with a short uncamera interview was conducted in the Mexican jungle back in October. In it, the drug kingpin talks candidly about his business.

JOAQUIN "EL CHAPO" GUZMAN, MEXICAN DRUG LORD: Well, it's a reality that drugs destroy. Unfortunately, as I said, where I grew up, there's no other way and there still isn't a way to survive, another way to work.

SAVIDGE: Penn's written article describes a seven hour face to face meeting with El Chapo that began with a hug and notes the drug lord is quote "Remarkably well groomed" unquote As he sips tequila and bragged about his fleet of submarines, airplanes, tracks and boats. Penn says the interview was set up by Castillo.

[21:50:00] El Chapo wanted her help to create a biopic about his life.

The American actor was asked by the Associated Press about images published in the Mexican news media today which appear to show officials watching he and Castillo before the meeting with El Chapo.

Penn's respond, "I've got nothing to hide". Authorities want to question Penn but it's not clear if he broke any laws. El Chapo meanwhile is back in the same prison he escaped from. Officials had started the process of extraditing El Chapo to the U.S. where he faces several drug trafficking charges.

DENIS MCDONOUGH, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: At this braggadocious action about how much heroin he sends around the world including the United States is maddening. We see in heroin epidemic opioid, addiction epidemic in this country. So, we're going to stay on top of this with our Mexican counter parts.


COOPER: That's Martin Savidge reporting.

Coming up, a murder mystery in Italy, an American woman found strangled to death last seen in a nightclub in Florence. What we know about what happened, next.


COOPER: Murder mystery in Italy. A 35-year-old American woman was found dead this weekend.

[21:50:00] Her death is being treated as a homicide. Italian authorities say no one has been excluded as a suspect, but no suspects had been named and no one has been arrested. In the wake of the debacle that Amanda Knox case became Italian authorities are promising to pursue every angle.

Randi Kaye tonight has the latest.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A gruesome discovery, Saturday afternoon in Florence, Italy. This American-born artist found dead in her apartment. Italian news agency ANSA says, 35 year old Ashley Olsen was naked with bruising and scratches around her neck. It says she was strangled, but investigators won't say for sure until the autopsy is complete.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very quiet neighborhood, by the way, almost spotless, I would say. And now there's a stain of blood on it and I don't like it.

KAYE: Olsen lived alone in an apartment she rented. So far, police don't believe she was sexually assaulted, but there was no sign of forced entry and no suspects. Still, the city's chief prosecutor telling CNN they have yet to exclude anyone, including Olsen's Italian boyfriend, even though he has an alibi that's in line with testimony from other witnesses.

He told authorities they had argued and when he was unable to reach her, he called Olsen's landlord, who unlocked her apartment. That's when her body was discovered. Her loyal companion, a beagle named Scout was reportedly at her side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was often here taking her dog out, always cheerful, always smiling.

KAYE: The Florida native had moved to Florence a few years ago to be closer to her father, an architect working for an Italian Art school.

Olsen was last seen late Thursday night and Friday morning at a Florence nightclub. The activity on her home computer stopped around noon Friday, afternoon.

So, by the time her body was discovered on Saturday, she may have been dead for some time. Olsen's Instagram account may offer some clues. The account includes bizarre postings like this one. She writes, "I have a stalker" with a hash tag, "#stalkeralert" and "#creeperintheback."

In this photo with her boyfriend, she used the hashtag, "#creepers." Months ago, she posted this, "Ashley, please, baby, I'm so, I've been sorry. I can't cry any more, please come back to me. I love you," with the hashtags, "#forme", and "#youshouldnthave."

And this was her last post, "Kiss me hard before you go."

Olsen's friend of more than a decade back in Florida can hardly believe she's gone.

STACI KELY, ASHLEY OLSEN'S FRIEND: I've never met anyone quite like Ashley. She had her special spark and she -- anyone that met her who loved her. She never met anyone that didn't like her.


COOPER: And Randi joins me now. This case does sound, you know, familiar, another American woman at the center of a mysterious murder in Italy.

RANDI: Absolutely, Anderson. Of course, you're referring to the Amanda Knox case. In that case, her roommate was found dead in their apartment in Italy back in 2007. Knox and her boyfriend, you recall, were tried and convicted twice actually for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

But just last year, Italy Supreme Court definitively exonerated both of them. And there really is the connection here. We've learned now that the lead investigator from the Amanda Knox case is also now heading up this Ashley Olsen case.

And also as you may remember, so many mistakes were made early on in that Amanda Knox investigation. Even the high court said that when it ruled.

So this time around, Italian authorities are saying that they will give this Ashley Olsen case, "maximum attention" to be sure Anderson that it is handled properly.

COOPER: Let's hope so. Randi, thanks very much. CNN Contributor, Barbie Latza Nadeau and American journalist who's been based in Italy for 20 years, she's joining us. She's the Rome Bureau Chief for The Daily Beast. She's also written a book about the Amanda Knox case, it's called the "Angel face." Barbie joins us now from Rome.

So, I mean, giving the details of this and certainly hard not to think as I said of Amanda Knox which obviously you've covered for many, many years.

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, ROME BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Yeah. No, there so many similarity, I have to say that the investigators who is the same, journalist who is the same, you know, you've got another, you know, beautiful Italian town, another American woman who was in Italy for all practical purposes to have an enjoyable time and was having an enjoyable time that ended just a very badly.

But the biggest similarity is there are so many more questions and answers at this point in the investigation.

COOPER: And the first wave of headlines, I mean when I think back to Amanda Knox and the Italian press, the images they presented, you know, was of this American honor student. The coverage been switched in tone pretty quickly. What are you seeing in this case in terms of the coverage, in terms of the early attention?

NADEAU: We are seeing, really, the same thing, you know. On Saturday, when the body was found, you know, as people started combing through her social networking pages, and the things that she uploaded about herself, the information she gave to the public about herself, you know, you had this beautiful American woman, you know, walking her dog through the streets of Florence.

[21:55:00] Everything was great. People were talking about how great she was. And we're seeing a slight shift. Now she's becoming a little bit of a party girl. We're seeing reports that she, you know, that and her friends left her at a club at 3:00 in the morning. You're seeing, sort of the Italian press, as they did with Amanda Knox, paint the picture of this, you know, American girl gone wild abroad.

And, you know, you hear the investigators as well, come starting to gossip a little bit. I mean, I think it's just really going to be when we get the results of the autopsy, we have more clarity and to the circumstances that her death, how that's going to play, you know, finally.

If she, you know, there are some lines of investigation right now, for example, that her boyfriend may have had an alibi, may have been with her -- his mother. Is that proves to be the case, and it's someone that she met at a bar and took home or something like that, which is obviously one of the investigative paths right now, you know, that's going to play badly in terms of how the Italian press just, you know, paint the picture of an American the girl gone wild again.

COOPER: And what sort of timeline are we looking at in terms of the investigation?

NADEAU: Well, you know, this investigation was very slowly in Italy, it's very, very different from the United States.

For example, they found the body Saturday. They didn't do the autopsy until Monday because, you know, people don't work on Sunday.

And that's just the sort of thing you're looking at all the way through. So they also found a bra, you know, that was wrapped to her. It was wrapped over a bicycle today, two days after, you know, the murder. The body was found, things like that. Whether that's attached to the crime or not, we don't know, but you have the sort of spectacle of the police investigators collecting this last evidence, you know, two days after the murder took place. These all really, you know, after remind a lot of us...


NADEAU: ... of the Amanda Knox investigation.

COOPER: Yeah. Barbie Latza Nadeau, appreciate it. Thanks very much from Rome tonight. We'll be right back.