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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Trump Hits Highest Standing in Poll, Doubles Lead; Trump, Cruz Preparing For Tonight's Debate; Poll: Clinton, Sanders in Virtual Tie in Iowa; Final Preps Underway for Crucial GOP Debate; Interview with Mike Huckabee; Starbucks Targeted in Paris-Style Attack. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 14, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Next, breaking news. A new poll showing Donald Trump running away with the lead up double digits over his closest competitor, this as Trump and Ted Cruz prepares for a big fight at tonight's debate.
Plus, deadly Paris-style attack on a Starbucks at a major tourist spot. The second time this week ISIS targeting tourist.
And caught on tape tonight, another black teen shot and killed by a Chicago police officer while he was running away. Why did the city fight to keep it a secret? You are going to see it for yourself tonight OUTFRONT. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Donald Trump about to take center stage at tonight's Republican debate in just a few moment. Trump will be armed with one of his favorite weapons, a new national poll just released by NBC and "The Wall Street Journal." Let me tell you what it says, it says Donald Trump is in the lead and with a huge margin. Huge margin over his GOP rivals. Thirty three percent of Republican voters support Trump in this latest poll breaking at this hour, 13 points ahead of his nearest rival Ted Cruz. Thirteen points.
Now, just last month, the very same poll showed him leading Cruz by only five points. And that's crucial, because, of course, Cruz has had a lot of momentum over the past month. At this moment, Trump and the other leading Republican candidates are backstage. They are making last minute preparations for this crucial debate, which comes just weeks before the first votes are cast in this race.
Dana Bash is OUTFRONT tonight from the debate side, it is in North Charlotte, South Carolina. And Dana, you have been talking to Ted Cruz sources today. Is he preparing for a big fight tonight with Donald Trump?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: My understanding is the answer is yes, Erin. The two of them have been making nice for a very long time. They have been try -- at least from the perspective of Ted Cruz, trying to not really engage that much with Donald Trump or any of his opponents. But that, my understanding from talking to Cruz sources, is going to change tonight.
BASH (voice-over): Donald Trump and Ted Cruz played nice at every debate until now. It's hard to believe this won't happen on tonight's stage.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We got a little problem. You have to sort of make sure you can run. You got to make sure you can run. A lot of lawyers say you can't run if you do that, you can't be born in Canada.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This issue did not seem to concern Donald until a little over a week ago when suddenly he was trailing in the polls in Iowa.
BASH: But in any scenario heading into the first vote in Iowa and New Hampshire, these are the men to beat. Two men much of the Republican establishment can't stand but are starting to grin and bear.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We will going to support whoever our nominee is, you know why, because it's the Republican primary voter who makes that decision. And that's who we will respect.
BASH: Multiple GOP lawmakers privately tell CNN between the two, they would prefer Trump over Cruz, their own Congressional colleague, because they think Cruz's appeal is too narrow and Trump gets the GOP a better shot at winning the White House. At a breakfast this week with reporters, Ryan acknowledged that Trump could bring people into the Republican Party. Quote, "You have got to give him credit for that," Ryan said. But Ryan also let out an audible grown when asked about Trump's plan for a deportation force to round up undocumented immigrants.
TRUMP: We're going to stop them. We're going to build a wall.
BASH: Concern about Trump's rhetoric turning off non-white voters is a key reason GOP leaders chose South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley to be the face of the party following the President's State of the Union. But she also turned out to be the voice of worried Republicans.
GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: During anxious times it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices.
BASH: Conservative talk radio hosts slammed Haley for criticizing Trump. But the billionaire himself was uncharacteristically circumspect here on OUTFRONT.
TRUMP: Well, I think she's right. I am angry. I'm angry and a lot of people are angry too at how incompetent our country is being run.
BASH: Many Trump supporters blame Republican leaders as much as Democrats and they are trying to walk a fine line on the potential of Trump at the top of their ticket.
RYAN: We don't want to have another president like this one that divides the country. SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: What people remember about
Ronald Reagan was not that he was a solid conservative but that he was cheerful optimistic and upbeat about the future of America.
BASH: Now, Erin, for a long time talking to Republican sources, particularly in Washington, there was a sense of denial that Donald Trump could ever be their nominee. That is starting to melt away as they see the same polls that we do. They hear the same things from Republicans out in the country that we see. And that is that Donald Trump is doing extremely well and could very well be the man at the top of their ticket -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Dana Bash, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, Donald Trump's Campaign Spokesperson Katrina Pierson. The former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz Amanda Carpenter. And the former communications director for the Republican National Committee Doug Heye.
OK, great to have all of you with me. Doug, let me start with you. Because the top two candidates for the GOP, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, are both men the establishment does not like. I could use much stronger words and I would still be accurate. But let's go with does not like. Which one from your perspective is worse?
[19:05:32] DOUG HEYE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, I have already announced that I won't be supporting Donald Trump because I don't think that he's a conservative. He has never proven to be. Bill Maher, the liberal committee today said, he says, Trump says a lot of things that liberals can like. He said that Barack Obama would be a great president and Hillary Clinton would be a great secretary of state. That obviously is things that Republicans don't believe.
And while, you know, I haven't made a decision on who else I will support, when you talk about Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz unlike Trump talks about issues. Ted Cruz has a long record of conservatism. He was a great lawyer to John Boehner when John Boehner was suing Jim McDermott. He worked at the Federal Trade Commission. He knows how government works. And whether I support him or somebody else in the primaries, given the choice between the two, I think it's really clear, one person is very dangerous for the party and for America, and that's Donald Trump.
BURNETT: All right. So, you would support Ted Cruz. Katrina, what do you say? When you hear that, this is someone Doug who was the former spokesman for the Republican National Committee would support anybody but as a Republican would not support Donald Trump.
KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SPOKESWOMAN: Well, there are a lot of Republicans that seem to think that. And as Dana mentioned earlier, she said that Donald Trump is the best chance to beat Hillary Clinton when in the beginning they said, if Donald Trump is the nominee, we will lose to Hillary Clinton. So, I think what we're dealing with here is people who want to be pandered to. They say Donald Trump isn't a conservative. But when you look at the top issues, like the economy, like immigration, those are all very important to Republican voters. And frankly, the last few election cycles across the board, all those Republicans that gave us those think tank talking points and talked about those substantive issues didn't govern accordingly. And that's the problem.
BURNETT: So, Amanda, what about this poll that's coming out tonight? I mean, we all know at the debate, Donald Trump is going to bring up this poll. He's going to love it. Right? It's a big national lead. And it's increased. But Ted Cruz has been getting all this momentum. And yet, in the same poll, Trump is up 13 points now. A month ago in the same poll, he was only up five points. Is this something that should concern Ted Cruz?
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the Cruz campaign is probably only focused on the performance tonight. They're going to have a chance to tangle one on one, face to face, no more twitter fights, no more fighting through the media. And I think this is a great opportunity for Ted Cruz to ask Donald Trump to settle this question about the birther stuff, about the Canadian status. And if Donald Trump tried to slink away and go back to his twitter account in the middle of the night rather than address these issues head on at this opportunity, it's going to look really bad.
BURNETT: So, do you think Ted Cruz will put that question straight to Donald Trump, Amanda, say, Mr. Trump, do you take it back? I mean, do you think it will be that direct between those two men?
CARPENTER: It may come to that. When I think about it, I think you have to see what the debate theatrics are like, if Donald Trump brings it up, it probably will get an equal and appropriate response. But it needs to be dealt with. I think everyone recognizes that. And so, I would expect Cruz to find some way to address it.
BURNETT: Katrina, I would imagine there's no way Donald Trump will back down. I mean, there are now constitutional scholars who have taken the side of saying this is an issue for Ted Cruz. I can't imagine he's going to back down.
PIERSON: Well, I don't think you will going to see him back down or slither away. I mean, if there's one thing that we know is Donald Trump won't back down from a fight. He doesn't have to resort to twitter. And if the issue does come up, I'm sure he will stand by it. Because as you said there are scholars out there that agree that this could be a problem. So, whether or not Senator Cruz addresses the issue, I think the bigger question is, how is it going to open up more -- how is it going to open up further going into the Iowa caucus, is he going to talk about the issue, is he going to resolve it? Or is there going to be this back and forth that we have seen over the last couple of weeks? Because it's our understanding that it can be dealt with. And unfortunately, it's just not.
BURNETT: So, this is going to be an issue tonight. I mean, there's no question. I think everyone in the country is going to be watching to see how this plays out. Doug, you know, when you say though that you would support anyone
except for Donald Trump, I want to play for you something that happened to Donald Trump last night at a rally. Because it sort of epitomizes why a lot of people like him. Let me show you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't like this mic. Whoever the hell brought this mic system, (bleep) put it in, I'll tell you. This mic is terrible. Stupid mic keeps popping. Do you hear that, George? Don't pay them. Don't pay them. You know, I believe in paying. But when somebody does a bad job like this stupid mic, you shouldn't pay the bastard. Terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, this is why a lot of people like Donald Trump. He is not going to pay if the job isn't done right. He doesn't tolerate failure. I mean, do you accept that he really could be the nominee at this point? Do you accept that?
HEYE: I do accept it. And that's why I think it's dangerous. Look, the birther issue showed a real ugly side of the GOP in 2008. I think it's showing an ugly side of the GOP right now. But one thing I think we should remember, Erin, it's not just going to be Ted Cruz versus Donald Trump. This isn't a one on one heavyweight boxing match. This is a battle Royale. You will going to see a lot of people possibly go after Donald Trump or Ted Cruz or go after each other. Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, they are all going to make a lot of noise as well. There will be less candidates than most debates that we've seen so far, that means more time for everybody to really go after each other.
[19:10:32] BURNETT: It's a fair point. Fewer people on the stage. And you have Rubio and Bush and Christie and Kasich all trying to make a very, very big splash tonight. Thank you all three very much.
And OUTFRONT next, Clinton fading in the polls as the long shot Democrats surges. Is this 2008 all over again?
Plus, Donald Trump, a subject largely ignored at tonight's under card debate. That's right. Ignored. Why? Well, I am going to ask someone who was there. My guest tonight will be Governor Mike Huckabee. And it may be the most dangerous sport in the world.
Tonight, OUTFRONT, you will going to be base jumping so you can see for yourself.
[19:14:52] BURNETT: Tonight, more trouble for Hillary Clinton with the Iowa caucuses about two weeks away, the once presumptive nominee is now in a dead heat with Bernie Sanders. A new poll out of Iowa finding Clinton's edge over Sanders' dropping from nine percent to two percentage points in just a month. And that is obviously within the margin of error, that is a statistical tie. Is this 2008 all over again?
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She has been here before.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wish that we could elect a democratic president who could wave a magic wand and say we shall do this and we shall do that. That ain't the real world we're living in.
ZELENY: Hillary Clinton urging voters to be skeptical of promises made by her rival. This time it's Bernie Sanders. But it sounds similar to this moment eight years ago.
CLINTON: You are not going to wave a magic wand and have the special interests disappear.
ZELENY: The magic want is back, a sign Clinton is no longer the inevitable front-runner. Tonight, a new Iowa poll from the Des Moines Register shows Clinton and Sanders effectively deadlocked. But it's a troubling trend for Clinton. As her support has dipped, Sanders has surged month by month. He is heading into the final two weeks with real momentum.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are two democratic visions for regulating Wall Street.
ZELENY: But his populous message is facing new scrutiny. He is under pressure to get specific on issues like healthcare.
CLINTON: As Senator Sanders has some very big ideas, but he hasn't yet told anybody how he would pay for them.
ZELENY: The question is how Sanders' plan will affect middle class taxes.
CLINTON: And a lot of what he has talked about in his campaign would be very expensive.
ZELENY: Sanders' supporters are unfazed. He is building a coalition that looks like Barack Obama's in 2008. He is leading Clinton decisively among Independents, voters under 45 and first time caucus goers. Something else sounds familiar, an argument about electability. Now Clinton is saying this.
CLINTON: Think hard about the people who are presenting themselves to you. Their experience. And particularly for those of us who are Democrats, their electability.
ZELENY: A flashback to 2008.
CLINTON: I believe that I have a very good argument that I know more about beating Republicans than anybody else running. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Now, of course, voters will have the final answer who is the most electable candidate not Hillary Clinton. But a few moments ago, Senator Sanders told me that he will indeed disclose how much his healthcare plan will cost and explain more of the fine print of that before the Iowa caucuses, Erin. So, that's something that he is responding to. And he says he is not engaged in negative campaigning. The Clinton campaign convened a conference call tonight with its campaign manager saying that Bernie Sanders is negative campaigning. Senator Sanders as he's not, he is simply trying to draw contrast. I can tell you this big crowd behind me tonight in New Hampshire is supportive of Bernie Sanders.
BURNETT: All right. Jeff, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, Jonathan Tasini travels on behalf of the Bernie Sanders campaign. He's a surrogate for the Senator. And David Brock, founder of Correct the Record which is a pro-Hillary Clinton Super Pac.
David, let me start with you. Because you just heard in Jeff's piece, it's the same kind of voters who gave then-Senator Obama his first win in Iowa. That win that turned an entire election. That group now backing Bernie Sanders. I was talking about people who are caucusing for the first time, people who categorize themselves as independent and people who are young, under the age of 45. Is this 2008 all over again?
DAVID BROCK, FOUNDER, CORRECT THE RECORD, A PRO-CLINTON SUPER PAC: No. Look, I don't think anybody thinks that Senator Sanders is Barack Obama. And let me tell you something. The reality is, it's Senator Sanders who has said he is going to Iowa and New Hampshire. And the polls today and in the last few days show Hillary is still slightly ahead in Iowa. New Hampshire is close. But that's why the Sanders campaign is feeling pressed. That's why they are running a negative campaign. They switched strategies totally today after Senator Sanders promised not to run negative ad. They went up with a negative ad.
Of course, they were the first to go negative back in the fall when Senator Sanders attacked Hillary at the JJ Dinner when his staff stole millions of dollars' worth of data from the Clinton campaign and misled the press. Then Senator Sanders went out with the outrageous baseless innuendo that the Clinton people had done it, too. So, he is feeling pressed. And here's why, the gun issue -- hold on. On the gun issue he is really out of touch not only with democratic primary voters, but he's on the wrong side of it. What 82 percent of millennials wants our guns --
JONATHAN TASINI, AUTHOR, "THE ESSENTIAL BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS VISION FOR AMERICA": I think you see --
BROCK: Hold on.
BURNETT: I get your point. BROCK: Can I finish?
TASINI: I think you see the panic flowing out of his pores.
BROCK: If I can just finish. Because one of the biggest priorities of the NRA was this issue of immunity for gun manufacturers that he supported. He supported the Charleston loophole that got the shooter, enable that shooter to get that gun before his background check. And he has got this --
TASINI: So, Erin -- he has got this half-baked -- he got a half-baked --
[19:19:45] BURNETT: Hold on, David. David, you make the point about Donald. Let Jonathan get in. Go ahead, Jonathan.
TASINI: Thank you. So, I will say right now, we will win Iowa and New Hampshire. And I will not be surprised when that happens. I predicted that months ago. And it's really a fact that this is a political revolution. And it's a political revolution versus the status quo. I think that's why millions of people, young people -- I met some Republicans just now in Florida who said they are former Republicans who are going to vote for Bernie in the Florida primary. In Iowa and New Hampshire, people are saying, we don't want to support candidates of the status quo.
We don't want to support candidates who voted for more wars like the Iraq war. That was what Hillary Clinton did. We don't want people who are close to the drug and insurance companies who are close to Wall Street. We want a fundamentally different political economy. And they are surging to Bernie. I had no doubt that Bernie could win these two. The only question I had was raising money. And we have proven over the last several months that we can raise money. And I don't want to say -- I want to compliment the Clinton campaign. Let me just be very clear. I hope they continue to engage in these false attacks around healthcare.
BROCK: Oh, no, we're not the ones doing the false attacks.
TASINI: Every single time we do we raise money.
BROCK: We're not the ones doing the false attacks.
TASINI: In the last 48 hours, the campaign has raised $1.4 million because people see that these are false attacks.
TASINI: I want to compliment --
BROCK: Why doesn't Senator Sanders --
TASINI: I really want to thank the Clinton campaign.
BURNETT: Okay. Jonathan. Go ahead, David.
BROCK: Well, let's talk about this. Why doesn't Senator Sanders keep his promises? And why doesn't he tell the truth about his record?
TASINI: OK. So let's talk about healthcare.
BROCK: So, he denied, he denied --
TASINI: Let's talk about --
BROCK: Hold on! You want to interrupt me again?
TASINI: No, let's talk about healthcare.
BROCK: Can I finish? He denied --
TASINI: Let's talk about healthcare.
BURNETT: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Both of you stop for one second. Because I do actually want to go to healthcare, David.
BURNETT: I think we're going to guns. But I want to go to healthcare because Jeff Zeleny brought that up.
TASINI: I think too.
BURNETT: And you just Heard Bernie Sanders who told Jeff Zeleny earlier tonight Jonathan that he is going to give more details. The campaign had earlier indicated that he wasn't going to give more details. This is a plan that some people say could cost $15 trillion. Now the words he used to Jeff Zeleny were is that he is going to give an outline -- an outline of the numbers. Doesn't he need to do more than that? I mean, give real numbers about what the cost is going to be here. Or is he avoiding the issue?
TASINI: No, not at all. So, we already spend $3 trillion a year in healthcare. Bernie Sanders' campaign does not cost more money. He wants to reallocate the money and actually what happens just like in Australia and other industrial --
BURNETT: So, you're saying that 15 trillion is a bunch of ball.
TASINI: Well, I'm saying, it's $15 trillion over the course of a number of years. But it doesn't cost more money. What he is doing is he is killing the insurance companies. His plan would save the average person making $50,000 a year, it would save them about $5,000 a year. And yes, in their paycheck just like they pay Social Security, they would see a little number which would be about 2.3 percent of their income just as they do in Australia where they have essentially Medicare for all. But at bottom line, when you go to your bank account, every single person would save if you are making $50,000 a year $5,000. The Clinton plan, because as --
BURNETT: OK. Hit pause there for one moment.
BURNETT: Because I want to give David a chance here to respond.
BROCK: Look, I'm glad we're starting to get some details.
TASINI: Those details have been out there, David.
BROCK: Hold on. Senator Sanders was asked if he wanted to dismantle ObamaCare. He said no. That wasn't true. He said he didn't support the exception the Charleston loophole when he did.
TASINI: But --
BROCK: He got Pinocchios from none bias fact checkers.
TASINI: Let's stick with --
BROCK: So, he needs to start telling people about the truth about his record. And the thing about these polls. A quarter of the people in these polls don't know who Senator Sanders is.
TASINI: Well, actually the opposite has happened.
BROCK: As we start to have -- he has had no scrutiny.
TASINI: Erin, here are the --
BROCK: That has been vetted. And as that starts, his members are going to go down.
TASINI: Erin, here are the two false --
BURNETT: Very quick final word, Jonathan.
TASINI: Here are two falses.
BURNETT: Very quick.
TASINI: First of all, the more people learn about Bernie Sanders, the more they are flowing to him.
BURNETT: That's not true.
TASINI: And that's why he is going to win.
BURNETT: That's not true. We are finding out --
TASINI: Excuse me. On the healthcare question, he has been very clear that his plan would save Americans money.
BROCK: That's not true. Absolutely not true. What do you think the Republicans --
BURNETT: All right. I am going to have to hit pause. I'm not finding an easy moment to end this. So, I will hit pause. But I will say we are eagerly awaiting --
BROCK: Wait until the Republicans get ahold -- BURNETT: -- on the healthcare plan. Thank you very much.
TASINI: You will continue to hear this fraudulent stuff from the Clinton campaign. It will get worse. That's the way they work.
BURNETT: I'm looking forward to having both of you on to reprice this debate. Thank you very much.
[19:24:06] OUTFRONT next, just weeks before those Iowa caucuses, Republicans are back on the debate stage tonight. It's the main event. Can anyone catch Donald Trump in the latest poll breaking at this hour with now a massive lead over the next closest competitor?
One of his rivals, Mike Huckabee is my guest OUTFRONT tonight, next.
And multiple attackers armed with guns, grenades, home-made bombs and a deadly ISIS-inspired assault at Starbucks. We are live on the scene tonight.
[19:28:28] BURNETT: Tonight, the Republican presidential candidates making last-minute preparations for tonight's crucial debate. As a new poll breaking shows Trump with a double digit lead over his closest competitor Ted Cruz. Thirteen points. The seven men will take their podiums in about 90 minutes in South Carolina. Now, this is literally where they will stand. So, when I say center stage, I am being literal. Donald Trump will be standing in the middle as the front-runner flanked by Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Just moments ago, the candidates avoided going after Donald Trump at the undercard debate or each other. It just concluded. Instead, their zingers were targeted at Hillary Clinton and President Obama.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All he has to do is listen to the democratic debate and find out how bad the economy is.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The President keep saying, the gun show loophole. There is no gun show loophole. I promise you I've been to more gun shows than President Obama. And I bought more weapons at them. And you fill out forms.
CARY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The truth is, I have had and been blessed by a lot of opportunities to do a lot of things in my life. And unlike another woman in this race, I actually love spending time with my husband.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Sunlen Serfaty is live at the debate hall. Sunlen, that was one of the toughest zingers there tonight. But, you know, Iowa just weeks away. Tonight is do or die, isn't it?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely is, Erin. The stakes are extremely high for many of these candidates tonight because the pressure that the calendar is really putting on just three weeks away to the Iowa caucus. Really creating that make or break moment, that big moment, cultivating that moment to have that big breakout moment on stage, that the window for that opportunity is really coming to a close for many of these candidates. Creating that momentum as they head out in the ground in Iowa, in the ground in New Hampshire really goes a long way for candidates as people head in to cast their votes.
So, I think that's why we're going to see and we already have seen some of the candidates like Carly Fiorina, tonight she really came out right out of the gate, really blazing against Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, President Obama, really trying to create that moment, that momentum to break through and really reclaim the narrative. That is the goal of many of these candidates here tonight -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Sunlen, thank you very much, on location at that debate.
And OUTFRONT now, the former Arkansas governor and Republican presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee.
Thank you so much for being with me, Governor. I appreciate your time.
Now, you just finished up the debate. I noticed watching that you did not attack the Republican front-runner, Donald Trump, at all.
Is this because you accepted he likely will be the party's nominee?
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Erin, it's mainly because he wasn't there to defend himself. I try to be a gentleman. It's not appropriate to attack somebody that's not there and somebody who is about to get two hours of air time and you can't defend yourself when you do.
But, look, my fight is not against Donald Trump. My fight is for the nomination. And if you heard the debate tonight, you heard me fight for those folks who are getting Social Security checks and scared they will lose them, are the people who are standing on their feet all day long, that's what the fight has to be about.
So, my beef isn't with Donald Trump. If he gets the nomination, we're behind him. You know, I'm still fighting and I'm doing 150 events in Iowa this month, because we still believe there's a real shot to pull this off.
BURNETT: All right. And now, I want to play a part, actually, of an interview I did last night with Donald Trump. The reason I'm playing this is because it's about tonight's debate. It's about Ted Cruz and his Canadian birth and whether that makes him ineligible to be president. Let me just play the exchange for you.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to talk about it. Probably somebody tomorrow will ask a question. I will give them an answer. All I'm doing is saying, if there's a question mark. Nobody can deny there's a question mark. That's a problem.
BURNETT: I want to ask --
TRUMP: I'm not -- I'm not going to bring it up.
BURNETT: You are not going to bring it up tomorrow night?
TRUMP: No. Why would I bring it up? I'm asked this question all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right. You have said, Governor, you have concern about this issue. My question to you is, should the RNC tell Cruz to step aside so they don't run into a major lawsuit and possibly lose the White House if he's the nominee?
HUCKABEE: I don't think they would tell him to step aside. I think that's an overreaction. I didn't think it was an issue until I started seeing extensive and thorough detailed articles from constitutional law professors with strong credibility, saying that this is an issue. I think Senator Cruz needs to settle it. The RNC has no business telling him that he arbitrarily should step aside because there's a question.
The issue is, answer the question. Settle it. Deal with it.
BURNETT: How can he do that, though, Governor?
HUCKABEE: I guarantee you one thing -- I think he would have to ask for a summary judgment from a court, Supreme Court ultimately. I mean, I don't think that it has ever been a case law that's been ultimately settled. Had an attorney tell me today, he said, you know, one that he's absolutely certain, he says as an attorney, this is not settled law. There's a lot of ambiguity about it. It needs to be settled for his sake as well as for the parties.
BURNETT: Obviously, that could take months and months. So, if it's something that could take that long, I mean, if it were you, would you continue running and going for the nomination? Or would you step aside?
HUCKABEE: Well, Erin, for me, it's real simple. I was born in Hope, Arkansas. We already have clearly established that you can be born in Hope, Arkansas, and be president of the United States.
My answer would be, let's give Hope one more chance. We know that there's not an issue for a president born in Hope, Arkansas. That is settled law.
BURNETT: All right. Governor, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
HUCKABEE: Thank you, Erin. Great to be on.
BURNETT: Wrapping up his part of the debate as he is running for a top finish in Iowa.
OUTFRONT next, ISIS attacks tourists at a Starbucks. A Paris-style attack. A live report of what exactly happened here at the Starbucks.
And newly released video tonight capturing a Chicago police officer shooting, killing an unarmed black teen who was running away, shooting in the back. We're going to show you this video for the first time. It's video of the city of Chicago thought you would never see.
[19:38:36] BURNETT: Tonight, ISIS claiming responsibility for a coordinated Paris-style attack targeting tourists at a Starbucks in a popular business district. The assault taking place in Indonesia's capital Jakarta. Witnesses say the terrorists were armed with grenades, knives, guns, riding in on motorcycles, opening fire killing at least two, injuring more than two dozen people.
Ivan Watson is OUTFRONT live in Jakarta for us.
Ivan, you're at the site of the attack and you have some new details tonight.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erin.
I mean, look, it's rush hour here. It's the morning in Jakarta. Look how busy this place is.
Imagine at least three attackers with guns, suicide bombs, grenades first attacking that Starbucks and then getting involved in gun battles with police here and attacking -- we will spin over here. Attacking what was a police traffic control booth here. And in that ensuing gun battle here, at least two people were killed. I have just spoken with the police chief of Jakarta. He has identified one of the foreign victims as an Algerian born man with a Canadian passport. Another Indonesian was killed. An Indonesian police officer seriously wounded.
Now, the thing is this could have been so much worse, because the police say they found after basically killing the attackers, they found at least six unexploded devices.
[19:40:06] You can just imagine the amount of damage and pain that that could have caused. It did not happen. Now, the police chief also said that the mastermind is believed to be an Indonesian who traveled to Syria to join ISIS. The police chief says he thinks the order came from directly from Raqqa, that ISIS stronghold in Syria, to Indonesia. This man named Bahrun Naim, that he told his followers here to try to carry out an attack. The security forces here ramped up security in December. They were
anticipating a Christmas or New Year's Eve attack. It did not happen. Instead, we had this battle in the streets here on Thursday morning that resulted in the loss of lives of two civilians. It could have been so much worse.
BURNETT: Ivan, thank you very much.
I want to go straight now to the former CIA operative Bob Baer.
So, Bob, you've just heard Ivan's latest reporting -- six unexploded devices, that this was directed directly from ISIS stronghold in Syria, from Raqqa, multiple attackers, a Starbucks, Paris-style. What do you make of it?
BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: It looks like a Paris-style attack, Erin. It was synchronized, a lot of explosives, a lot of weapons, multiple attackers. They wanted to reproduce Paris, clearly, to me. The fact ISIS claimed it, certainly, it looks like an ISIS attack.
The fact that it was possibly directed from Raqqa is very important. It tells me that the Islamic state is on some sort of campaign now. I mean, they have taken serious losses, Ramadi for one, and they want to strike out and let the world know they are there. And they are hoping to take -- turn it into some sort of insurrection in countries like Indonesia.
BURNETT: I mean, it was also, you know, targeting a business district, targeting Starbucks, right, an American company, a lot of American companies in that area, targeting specifically Starbucks. This is something you warned about on the show many times. ISIS could target tourist areas, whether in Europe, whether in Asia, in the United States, where tourists go, where American businesses are.
BAER: Exactly, Erin. We are the main enemy for the Islamic State. They believe we're leading concerted attack, including Russia, against them. The idea is to kill Americans or hit American businesses or hit people in uniform like the attack in Philadelphia against the policeman.
It's very clear what they want to do. They want to sow chaos around the world. They want a reaction from the United States. They want a conflict they think they can win. This is very apocalyptic view of the world, but that's the way they think.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Bob Baer, thank you very much. As we said, two ISIS attacks against tourist central areas in just the past three days.
OUTFRONT next, shocking new surveillance video. This is video you have never seen before. An unarmed black teen running away, then shot and killed by a white police officer, in the back. Chicago, the city thought you would never see this video. But you will see it tonight. We are live there.
And a man dead after jumping from an Arizona cliff in a wing suit. We have a special report tonight on the deadly sport of base jumping.
[19:47:02] BURNETT: And tonight, caught on tape, stunning new video shows another black teen fatally shot by a Chicago police officer. The 17-year-old Cedrick Chatman was armed and running -- unarmed, unarmed and running away from officers when he was shot four times. It appears in the back.
A federal judge ordering the release of the video, scolding the city of Chicago for trying to keep you from seeing it.
Rosa Flores is OUTFRONT in Chicago.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's yet another deadly shooting caught on camera. An unarmed black teen shot and killed by a Chicago police officer. The video's release today after a judge's order to show the final moments of Cedrick Chatman's life three years ago. At 1:46 p.m., surveillance cameras capture Chatman, a carjacking suspect, getting out of a car and running away from police.
That's Chapman running between two parked cars and on the sidewalk, a police officer close behind. Two seconds later, a second police officer, Kevin Fry, is seen in the middle of the street with his weapon drawn. Chatman disappears out of frame, still running away from police when Fry opens fire. Officers say Chatman was pointing a dark object at them and shot in self-defense. The object turned out to be a black iPhone box.
The camera pans over and showed Chatman on the street and then about a minute later, a police officer is seen with a foot on the wounded teen's body.
BRIAN COFFMAN, CHATMAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: You have a 17-year-old kid that's shot and killed bleeding in the street in Chicago handcuffed face down on the ground and for him to essentially step on him on top of it, it's just totally unreasonable.
FLORES: Unreasonable and disturbing, according to the judge that ordered the video to be released. The judge also called the city irresponsible for what he called an age of enlightenment.
(on camera): The judge is referring to the city's motion to drop its opposition for the release of the video made late Wednesday afternoon after a three-year fight. The city's explanation, transparency in the public's interest.
COFFMAN: I would say it's more of a political move than anything.
FLORES: Attorneys for the officers sent CNN a statement saying they had reason to believe that the suspect was armed. The police officers have not faced criminal charges but instead Chatman's two accomplices who were ten blocks away were charged with the teen's murder. They later pleaded guilty to lesser crimes. The police officers kept their jobs but are facing a wrongful death
suit from Chatman's family.
FLORES: Now, the federal judge's frustration with the city of Chicago didn't end by calling attorneys irresponsible. The judge went on to say and to scold city attorneys by telling them, "Look, you argued this video was grainy." The judge said, "I looked at it. It's not." And then, "Attorneys, you argued that it wasn't clear which officer fired the shots." And the judge said, "It's very clear." He said, "Officer Fry fired the shots."
Before I go, I want to show you one more thing, because as I'm looking through some of these documents, looking at the autopsy report for this particular case, and yet some other discrepancy here. It says, subject exited the vehicle with a gun and pointed at police. Police shot subject.
If you look at the video, this note is definitely not jiving with what we saw in the video -- Erin.
BURNETT: More questions about whether they are lies from the police department. Thank you very much, Rosa Flores, for that report.
Next, a California man dying after jumping off a steep cliff in a wing suit. We're going to take you base jumping and show you why one of the world's deadliest sports is becoming so popular. You will see all of thee jumps.
And a sneak peek of our new series, "The Person Who Changed My Life".
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[19:56:15] BURNETT: Tonight, authorities are trying to recovered body of a base jumper. He died after stepping off the edge of an Arizona canyon in a wing suit. It's believed he hit a wall and fell to his death 600 feet down.
BASE jumping is the subject of a CNN film this Sunday. Is the rush really worth the risk?
Martin Savidge has our story.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember growing up that classic parental argument, if you friends jumped off a cliff, would you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm shaking like a madman.
SAVIDGE: If you're Omer Mei-Dan, the answer is yes. Mei-Dan is a BASE jumper -- an extreme sort soaring in popularity, thanks in large part to breathtaking videos like these.
BASE is actually an acronym for the four objects you can jump from -- buildings, antennas, spans or bridges, and Earth.
It evolved from sky diving, base jumps are made though from much lower altitudes, leaving little room for mistakes and no time for a reserve chute. It's fly or die.
MARTA EMPINOTTI, BASE JUMPER: Once you step off, nothing in the world matters. You are, I think, that's the only time that you are 100 percent free.
SAVIDGE: BASE jumping may be thrilling but it's also killing enthusiasts at an incredible rate. Something that Dr. Mei-Dan, yes, he's also a surgeon knows, well. He wrote the book on it.
(on camera): So, when you break it down to danger versus other sports, other extreme sports, where does BASE jumping stand?
DR. OMER MEI-DAN, ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON, UNIV. OF COLORADO: Up here.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Since 1981, conservative count is more than 270 deaths in a sport with just 2,000 to 3,000 active participants.
Jimmy Pouchert and his wife Marta knew many of them.
JIMMY POUCHERT, BASE JUMPER: Martha and I have lost maybe 30 close friends in the past --
SAVIDGE (on camera): Thirty?
POUCHERT: -- 15 years. Yes, we'll lose one or two friends a year.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): But if death isn't enough to make you think twice, how about prison? In many places in the U.S. you risk not only breaking your neck but breaking the law?
SCOTT GEDIMAN, YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK SPOKESMAN: BASE jumping remains illegal here in Yosemite and all national parks across the country.
SAVIDGE: National parks are home to a number of popular jump sites. The Park Service says they ban the sport not to protect jumpers but the environment.
GEDIMAN: We had people land on trees, in rivers. We have falcons that nest in the cliff. So, we have that concern.
SAVIDGE: To try to reduce the death toll, Pouchert and his wife run a BASE jumping school.
(on camera): What is there to know about base jumping off a cliff?
POUCHERT: Mostly it comes down to opening your canopy at the right time and the right way, dealing with any malfunctions, that's the biggie.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Despite the incredible risks, the lure of BASE jumping is driving more and more people over the edge.
BURNETT: I feel seek even watching people stand at the edge of those cliffs, as you were showing. I mean, you were talking to a man who lost 30 of his friends, 30 of his friends. Why does he do it?
SAVIDGE: You know, this is the question that comes up over and over. Why do people do this? What is it that motivates them to go over the edge?
Clearly, there is something different about them and that's actually been shown medically and scientifically. There is a difference --
BURNETT: Their brains are just wired differently.
SAVIDGE: Exactly. They're wired very differently. Harm avoidance, which is I have a healthy dose of, they apparently do not. But they also talk about freedom. There is something about standing at the edge and looking and confronting your fear and then leaping off.
BURNETT: All right. Our thanks so much to you Marty.
"Sunshine Superman", the story of the man who inspired the BASE jumping movement, that is on Sunday night right here at 9:00 on CNN.
Thanks so much for joining us.
"AC360" begins now.