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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump, Sanders Win Big in New Hampshire; Fiorina, Christie Suspend Campaigns; John Kasich Fights Back; Sanders Meets With Civil Rights Activist Al Sharpton; Sanders Struggling To Gain African- American Support; Clinton Plans To Meet With Civil Rights Organizations; Sanders, Clinton Camps Trade Jabs On Race; Bush 43 To Stump For Jeb; Will George W. Bush Help or Hurt Jeb?; Undecided Voters In South Carolina; What Will Sway Undecided Voters In South Carolina. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 10, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:07] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us tonight.
Aftershocks from last night's crushing victories for Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump who just wrapped up a rally right now in the next big state for him to try and conquer, South Carolina. The immediate fall out, two Republicans gone today. Another badly wounded. A long shot on the rise. Sanders riding high. Clinton regrouping. Another high- stakes debate tomorrow. Very high stakes week ahead for Democrats in Nevada and South Carolina for Republicans where Donald Trump is taking a victory lap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look at all these people standing. This place is unbelievable. The place is massive. Look at all these people. I love you, too. Look at this. I love you. These people.
TRUMP: My whole life I take money, right? I make money. Like some of us who have business, we make money. We grab money. Money, money. I love money. Right? No, it's true. And we get greedy and more and more. And then all of a sudden it's like, I say, no, I don't want it. I want to do something else. I want to be greedy, but I want to be greedy for the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jim Acosta is at the Trump rally in Pendleton, South Carolina. He joins us now.
So just wrapping up. We heard a little bit of his speech and his interaction with the crowd. Overall, what was the tone after the big New Hampshire win?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was jubilant. I would say the tone was, you know, this was vintage Donald Trump. He knows how to take a victory lap. And as you just showed, he literally took a victory lap on the stage behind me, Anderson, as he was savoring this landslide win he got last night in the New Hampshire primary.
You know, Trump also tipped his hat to Carly Fiorina and Chris Christie dropped out of the race today. And even though Trump has been attacked by nearly all of his rivals today, the real estate tycoon really talked about his GOP opponents at this venue here in South Carolina. That's how good he is feeling. Just a couple of lines on Jeb Bush, but that is to be expected from Donald Trump.
He did spent some time sounding like a general election candidate, really going after Hillary Clinton as somebody who can't beat Bernie Sanders. He had some choice words for the senator from Vermont. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She's got to get through this wacky socialist guy Bernie. I listened -- no, no, last night, last night before I made my speech I said I don't want to make it while he's making it. I was trying to beat him out there. I said let him go. He went on forever. He wants to give the country away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And just how confident is Donald Trump sounding tonight, Anderson? He is saying if he's the Republican nominee, he could go on and win states like Michigan and New York. Those are big democratic states, at least in the presidential cycles. For a Republican to do that, that would obviously be a very big feat. But Donald Trump is feeling confident tonight, Anderson.
COOPER: He has also been on the ground there before even within the last seven days when he got snowed out of New Hampshire.
ACOSTA: That's right. And, you know, a lot of people were slamming Donald Trump for that saying, how can you be snowed out of New Hampshire and spend time in South Carolina, you know, just days before the New Hampshire primary? I talked Corey Lewandowski, the campaign manager for Donald Trump just before Donald Trump came out here. And they are planning to stick with this strategy of holding big rallies in a Reno event. Tight venues up and down the campaign calendar. If they have to bounce out of the state that's in contention at the moment, they will do that. He believes that Donald Trump has a major advantage right now over the other contenders in the field.
Keep in mind Anderson, when the other candidates were battling for Iowa, and battling for New Hampshire, Donald Trump was traveling out of those states to sort of set the table for what was coming down the calendar. Lewandowski said they have volunteers in 20 states, staff members in 20 states. And so, he won't be solely in South Carolina in the coming days. He is going to be in Louisiana and Florida the next two days. And Lewandowski was noting tome just a few minutes ago Super Tuesday is less than three weeks away. And they feel uniquely positioned for that battle coming up, Anderson. COOPER: All right. Jim, thanks very much.
Here with John King at the magic wall. Let's look at South Carolina first for the Republicans.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Big question, is this the terrain in South Carolina as hospitable as it was for Donald Trump in New Hampshire? So let's move down and take a look as we do so. Obviously, we have no results yet here. So let's go back to 2012 when Newt Gingrich won this state big. Mitt Romney along the coast here. Mitt Romney in the middle of the state, in the state capital, but look at that.
COOPER: All Gingrich.
KING: Yes, all Gingrich. He ran it up.
Now, let's a more traditional race in 2008, John McCain, your establishment candidate winning a big swath of the state right here. Mike Huckabee, the evangelical candidate winning a huge swath for the state. Fred Thompson, a lot of people think made the difference, 68 percent. They believe helped John McCain to that victory.
So how does that translate this year, Anderson? This is a heavyweight match. Trump and Cruz, no mistakes. You win South Carolina. You get the springboard into the south by March 1st. The big population to watch in the state here, evangelicals. The heavier the highlight, the more evangelicals. This should be Cruz country. But remember in Iowa, Donald Trump has adapted in every state and built a new coalition. In Iowa, he did dig into the evangelical support and then won those Republicans we talked about from what you call McCain country. So Donald Trump has proven from state to state. In New Hampshire last night, he won some Ron Paul voters. So he has proven from state to state that he can adapt. That's why you see this nasty television battle between Cruz and Trump right out of the box because they understand this state is their springboard into the south.
[20:05:45] COOPER: What about for the establishment lane?
KING: This is fascinating because Kasich said today I'm not going to win South Carolina. He's essentially trying to get people who care about balanced budget who may be more compassionate conservatives, get a respectable showing and get to the Midwest. But the floor to grudge match between Rubio and Bush could be settled right here. They would like to win. They would like to come in strong second if they don't win. But Rubio and Bush understand probably only one of them survives, South Carolina.
So again, they are going to be fighting for Trump just like they did in New Hampshire and just like they did in Iowa. They are going to be fighting for the same turf with Donald Trump. This is what makes this fascinating because Trump proved in Iowa he can compete with on these grounds. So as this one plays out, we know Cruz and Trump are going to go at each other. We know Bush and Rubio are going to go at each other. It is going to be interesting to see if it spills over. But if stays, you have potentially man to man, man to man. But the Florida grudge match will be settled right in here.
COOPER: And Jeb Bush is obviously going to be campaign with his brother, the former president George W. Bush. What about on the Democratic side?
KING: Remember that because in 2000, John McCain won New Hampshire and came into South Carolina with a lot of momentum. George W. Bush won the nomination. He won the nomination.
Let's go to Democratic primaries and come out in the battle real quick because the Republicans now go to South Carolina. The Democrats go next to Nevada and they wait for South Carolina. In this state, Hillary Clinton wants to do what she did in 2008. Number one, she wants to continue to dominate the white vote against then senator Obama, Clinton dominated one of the majority of the white vote which is two-thirds of the population. These are liberals going to caucus. So Bernie Sanders has a chance. Don't think just because Hillary Clinton has been here before Bernie Sanders doesn't have a chance. So then, from there, the question is can Bernie Sanders, Anderson, start to make inroads with traditional African-American traditional Democratic constituents. Fifteen percent of the vote or more will be African-American. Senator Obama carried it by a lap side of margin eight years ago. Fifteen percent or more the vote will be Latino. Secretary Clinton, then Senator Clinton carried it by a big margin years ago. So this is Bernie Sanders first big test. Can he make inroads with traditional democratic constituencies like Latinos and African-Americans and it's a caucus, so if liberals turn out, don't rule out a Sanders surprise in Nevada, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. John, fascinating stuff.
Before bringing the rest of the panel, a quick reminder of where things stand right now.
First of all, look at the Republicans who are still in the running including, yes, former Virginia governor Jim Gilmore. Again, Chris Christie and Carly Fiorina, they are out. That happened today. Both suspended their campaigns today at a point after which it gets more and more expensive just to keep going.
Some campaigns, though, run cheaper than others in winning last night. Donald Trump spent about $34 campaign dollars for every vote he got. Ted Cruz spent even less in New Hampshire. At the top of the scale, Jeb Bush shelled out more than $900 per ballot.
Our panel, meantime, they are priceless. Chief political analyst Gloria Borger, senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN political commentator and GOP strategist Kevin Madden, CNN national security commentator and former Republican congressman Mike Rogers, also former chairman of the house intelligence committee, the pride of Louisiana and CNN political commentator and senior Democratic party official, Donna Brazile.
You are all rested from last night?
So, I mean, Donald Trump not only heading into South Carolina with a huge win but the establishment candidates at this point are doing his work for him.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Hardly because they still have to attack each other and off a couple of them before they get to Donald Trump. And this is what has Republican donors so worried because they thought that after last night they were just going to be able to figure out who was going to be in that lane and support him and start writing their checks and that would be -- and they don't know now. So, you know, you have to see Rubio has to win somewhere. And he hasn't. Cruz has won one. Trump has won one. And then now, we're looking at South Carolina. And somebody -- if somebody else wins that, then it's still --
KING: The people who start this spin, they, a, need to get out of Washington more and get out to American world. But for last week it was Rubio is going to be the guy. Then he had that he debate and he collapsed. But the establishment all thought today will be the day where we start the three-way race between Cruz, Trump and Rubio. Then Rubio had the debate that he would like to forget. And remind you, he has another big one Saturday night which could be life or death for Rubio.
But for now, you have going into South Carolina, Donald Trump got exactly what he wants. High can win again with somewhere in the 30s. He can win the race somewhere in the 30s. This is a great line from a Republican who has ran many presidential campaigns, but involve in many today. I can't use his name, unfortunately. But he said this today. I asked how is this going to sort itself out. He said to hell if I know and then he said, if you watch a high-speed five-car collision as it happens, it's hard to know who walks away injury free and who dies and who gets sent to the hospital. That essentially is the Republican race right now, five cars on the track, they are going to crash and who knows.
[20:10:19] COOPER: And I mean, if you talk about it last night, you could have a situation where it's Trump and Cruz and Donald Trump becomes the establishment candidate because of so many establishments disliking Cruz.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. And I mean, he is on the air down there. He was just at that event. It seems like a lot of people were there. And you can see from the people who were there, they were wearing NRA caps. These look like working class folks. But some of them, you know, had on collared shirts and probably khakis and penny loafers. So he has able, it seems to me in his some ways, I think in a broad swath of Republicans, at least that was the case in New Hampshire. He is trying to do that in South Carolina. Already going after Cruz in that very hard-hitting ad thinking he can peel off a bit of everything. Evangelicals off from Ted Cruz, some establishment folks as well. So, you know, who knows what is going to happen. He just seems like such a force and they haven't been able to deal with.
COOPER: These (INAUDIBLE) political commentators, Kevin Madden, it is fascinating just how quickly things can crumble for these candidates. I mean, Marco Rubio, you know, coming out of Iowa had all these momentum, wing that is back, huge rallies, 700, 800 people the first morning when he showed up in New Hampshire. One bad debate performance --
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a volatile environment right now that we have seen in a long time. And I think what's driving a lot of these other candidates to stay in the race like Jeb Bush, like John Kasich is that even after a moment like that where you can see somebody fall, just as quickly you can rise.
So what Jeb Bush is looking to do is go down in success is deny Marco Rubio yet another win and continue to position himself as somebody who, because he has the resources, because he has better organization across all these multiple states that you are going to be competing in on March one through March 15th, that's his chance to - hey, two weeks ago we were all saying Jeb Bush is out. Now he looks like the presumptive establishment pick. So that's what they are banking on.
COOPER: Chairman Rogers, do you agree - I mean, John said it could be do or die for either Bush or Rubio in South Carolina, out of South Carolina.
MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: I think they get one more round of it mainly because of the money they've been able to put together. So they can still spin this coming out of South Carolina.
I do think you are going to see and what we're going to see for the first time is Donald Trump running something that looks like a real campaign. He is going up on TV, he is attacking his opponent. He has spent some money on organization that he hadn't really done, not even in New Hampshire. He hasn't really spent money on organization. You can see in the last few weeks he has actually spent money organizing people to get them to the polls. That has the semblance of a real campaign. So Rubio has - he has got to stand up and say I am not too young to be president. And I'm going to prove it in South Carolina. Bush has to take Rubio down. That's his campaign mark. Kasich is probably playing the long-term ball for later. And you are going to see that still happen in South Carolina.
So everybody is playing for a different game. Obviously, would like to win. But I don't think a lot of these candidates are playing to win. They are playing to position themselves for what happens in March.
KING: But Cruz knows mistakes. He is trying to peel Trump's skin off right now with these ads. The action figure doll and everything. Cruz understands mistakes and needs that momentum going to the south. And so, in the interest I think in Saturday night in the last debate, Cruz blinked. He had a chance to confront Trump before instead of the campaign trail and he blinked and backed away. He gets that chance again Saturday night understanding how important South Carolina.
ROGERS: Cruz has been working a long time in South Carolina. I think he need to pay attention to that.
COOPER: Donna, on the Democratic side, I mean, there is a lot of foes.
(CROSSTALK) DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you very much. First of all, I want to congratulate Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders because, of course, they won big last night. And we should congratulate them. But Ted Cruz has really been running a very traditional grassroots campaign. He has people on -- he had people on the ground prior to the Iowa caucuses, and they know what they are doing. So I want to give Ted Cruz just a slight advantage because he is on the ground and we all know in the last closing days of any campaign you can make up five or six percentage point.
COOPER: And he is an accomplish debater and I mean, he is very talented.
MADDEN: And well resourced.
BRAZILE: And funded.
MADDEN: Gets millions of dollars in the bank.
BRAZILE: On the Democratic side, I woke up to a lot of turbulence this morning, Anderson. I have been in church all day praying for the party. But the truth is that Bernie Sanders has real momentum. I believe they raised $5 million, $6 million on the internet overnight. They have organizers on all of the key Super Tuesday states. They have been on the ground now for more than 40 days in South Carolina.
And this is a caution to all of my friends in the Clinton campaign. They are going to compete for the black vote. So everybody need to get over it. They will compete for the Latino vote. And I believe that he will come away with substantial delegates in both states based on the fact that he is going to compete and he is going to run very hard.
COOPER: We are going to take a break. We are going to talk more about the Democrats when we continue.
There's a lot more to talk about over the next two live hours of the program tonight including John Kasich talking to our Jamie Gangel and his warning to anyone who thinks that waging a positive campaign somehow makes him a pushover.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:23] GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm not going to sit there and be, you know, a marshmallow or some kind of a pin cushion, people just pound me. I mean, where I come from, the blue collar town that I come from, you know, if you came in and beat our football team we just broke all the windows on our bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:19:10] COOPER: John Kasich arrived today in South Carolina like a candidate on the rise. Money which was drying up began pouring in, pundits who have written him off began reassessing, cameras which had been scarce at times began once again pointing his way. He is promising to be as sunny on the campaign trail as the spotlight he now finds himself in. However, as you will see in this interview with CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel, that promise is not unconditional. Watch.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: You said fasten your seat belt, and you have exceeded expectations. But now the pressure is on.
KASICH: I don't have any more --
GANGEL: Come pop you're in South Carolina now.
KASICH: Look, pressure is a mom that's got three kids and a husband walked out the door. Pressure is not, you know, what's I'm doing. I mean, you know, as long as I do what I think I need to do, whatever the outcome is, I will be fine with. You know, people were on our bus and interviewing me and looking at us for months and they like to come on the bus, it's like Zen. Why is everybody so calm?
So, you know, look, life is short. How do I seem now? I mean, I'm calm and happy and grounded and centered. See, the thing is when the big lights come on --
GANGEL: You keep using that word, centered. Why?
KASICH: You know, you don't want to lose yourself in this. You know, it's probably fool's gold, you know. All of a sudden you go from, you know, you are the governor of Ohio, and that's a big deal. Then all of the sudden you have 50 cameras on you. And you can -- you just can't be star struck with that because it's fleeting.
GANGEL: Jeb Bush went on the air this morning and said John Kasich has nothing in South Carolina. They are saying you have no money, you have no ground game. Can you compete here?
KASICH: Well, yes, we are going to compete here. We don't expect to win here. But on the other hand, if you look at the person that says that, they spent like well over $100 million, so something along that, and got like nothing, I mean. You know, so I'm not worried about what the other folks say. And this is not -- this is not the end of it for us here in South Carolina. We will be moving through South Carolina to other places.
GANGEL: So you don't expect to win here?
KASICH: Oh, no, no.
GANGEL: Some of these other states, the attack ads are already on the air. Are you going to hit back?
KASICH: Well, I'm not going to sit here and be, you know, a marshmallow or some kind of a pin cushion people just pound me. I mean, where I come from, the blue collar town that I come from, you know, if you came in and beat our football team, we just broke all the windows on your bus. I mean, you know, that's just a joke, by the way.
But I mean, the fact is I'm not going to just sit there and let somebody pound on me. The money is coming now. You know, everybody wants to sit at the table. Not everybody maybe but my early reports are people who sat around and said, you know, I like Kasich. He is smart. He is experienced. He would be a great president. But he is at one percent in the polls. So what am I going to do? I'm not going to help him. Now all of a sudden, they are like, how do I get a seat at the table? So, you know, I think all these things will come over time or they won't. I mean, either they will or they won't.
GANGEL: When did John Kasich get this Zen?
KASICH: I have had it for a long time now.
GANGEL: You didn't always show it, though.
KASICH: Well, look. Back when you covered me in Congress. You know, you don't know how hard it is to be a congressman and have an impact. And I was constantly fighting the establishment. So you can't like, you know, just walk around (INAUDIBLE). You know, now I'm an executive. I'm running for president. It is a different situation. Now when I say things, you know, particularly in Ohio, I can get people to do things. Back then I had to take a battering ram to knock down the walls of the city.
GANGEL: Reality check. Donald Trump came in --
KASICH: Really strong.
GANGEL: Number one, more than double your numbers. He has not hit you very hard. But in the past you've called him a bully. You've said there's no --
KASICH: I don't think I call him any names.
GANGEL: You called him a bully.
KASICH: Well, if I did that, I don't remember it because I usually try to -- I always try to stay on the issues. And what upset me about him in the beginning was, you know, trying to pick 11 1/2 million and shipping them across to Mexico and dividing people. I don't like that. But look, he has calmed down actually. You know, he has settled down. Look. It's a long road. You know, the thing --
GANGEL: But you think you can compete against him?
KASICH: Yes. Over time, I sure do. What do you think I would be doing down here. I would go home if I don't think I can compete. Of course I can compete. And you know what? You got to remember, in this 24/7 news cycle, the narrative changes like the flip. One minute you're dead. The next minute you're alive. The next minute you're dead. The next minute you're alive. Just stay, you know, I am going to continue to enjoy this road I'm on. How do you like that? Whether you guys like it or not, I'm going to try to enjoy it. GANGEL: Talk to me about having fun. You really did seem relaxed. I
saw you playing basketball, preparing for a debate. I saw you have a snowball fight. That was a long snowball fight. That was not just --
KASICH: Well, I had to take care of some business there.
GANGEL: I've also seen you bust some moves. In Michigan --
KASICH: I busted some moves, yes.
GANGEL: In Michigan --
KASICH: Shut up and dance with me. I don't know if you've heard that song.
GANGEL: It is my daughter's favorite song and you know all the words.
KASICH: I don't know all the words but I like the music. And then, you know, the other one was we are really enjoying is, you know, Harrison's "here comes the sun." You know, we just love that song. So -- and we kid each other and joke and, you know, we are always, you know, why did the skeleton not go to the party? Because he had no body to go with him. I mean, we just laugh. We tease each other. But you can't be in this group and have a thin skin because we come after you and we all get our turn in being in the pot.
[20:25:08] COOPER: And Jamie Gangel joins us.
I mean, Zen and politics don't often mix.
GANGEL: Especially in a presidential campaign. But John Kasich, for now, is embracing Zen. You saw the snowball fight. You hear him. You saw him -- how many presidential candidates are busting moves to "shut up and dance with me"?
That's said, John Kasich was raised in Pittsburgh. And he wears the name scrappy as a badge of honor. So he says he is not hitting back now. He says if they come after him, he won't be a marshmallow. I would say this, Anderson. We talk all the time about Chris Christie going full New Jersey. John Kasich is from the state next door from Pittsburgh. He knows how to handle himself, too. So let's wait and see what hatch happens.
COOPER: Jamie Gangel. Jamie, thank you.
Just ahead in the countdown in the South Carolina, Bernie Sanders is trailing way behind Hillary Clinton when it comes to support among African-American voters. We will take a look at how is he is trying to change that.
And later, George W. Bush on the campaign trail with his brother Jeb in South Carolina. The question is will the former president help or hurt Jeb's cause?
[20:30:20] COOPER: One challenge Bernie Sanders will face going to South Carolina as we talked about is connecting with African-American voters. In 2008, African-Americans made up 55 percent of the Democratic Presidential Primary Electorate in South Carolina.
A poll from late January showed Sanders with just 17 percent support among African-American voters in that state compared to Clinton's 74 percent.
In New York today, Sanders met with Al Sharpton at the famous Silvia's Restaurant in Harlem. CNN's Joe Johns joins me now from New York with more about that meeting. So how did it go? What do we know about it?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, Bernie Sanders also, by the way, did a recorded appearance on the late show with Steven Colbert tonight and appeared on "The View" today. But this pivot, the pivot to South Carolina, is a challenge for both of these candidates because of demographics.
You have African-American voters there with big influence. The interesting thing though is that Bernie Sanders was looking for validators. He didn't just fly down to South Carolina after his big win in New Hampshire. He went to Harlem to meet with Reverend Al Sharpton.
And Sharpton wasn't exactly issuing any endorsements at this point. He's waiting to meet with Hillary Clinton. Talking to someone today familiar with Sharpton's thinking, he's apparently got some concerns about both candidates, Anderson.
COOPER: Hillary Clinton obviously dominates in polls when it comes to African-American voters going to South Carolina. What reservations are some of the voters in the polls showing about Sanders?
JOHNS: You've heard them before. They really continue to be these questions about what Sanders can actually do. The things he's talked about on the campaign trail. My understanding is you've concerns out there in the community that while it all sounds good, there's skepticism about whether Sanders can actually deliver, and there are misgivings too about Hillary Clinton, even though she polls very well with minorities.
To be honest of one of the questions is more about what Bill Clinton did when he was president than anything Hillary Clinton is promising. So the wounds haven't healed over the rhetoric from that divisive battle in 2008. Bill Clinton seen as going a little too far at times to put it mildly.
There is also a signing of the Welfare Reform Bill while he was president as well as the Crime Bill that led to higher rates of incarceration. Bill Clinton said he has regrets about that but the source I talked to says the question is whether the African-American community is sort of going to say, "Oops. We understand that you are sorry for all that and move on." All of this comes at a time, Anderson, when the Democratic candidates are getting ready for the big debate in Milwaukee tomorrow night. Hillary Clinton looking to get some more momentum and Bernie Sanders essentially just trying to expand on his gains in New Hampshire.
COOPER: Yeah. Joe, thanks very much. The meeting between Sharpton and Sanders was initiated by former NAACP president Ben Jealous who is a Sanders supporter. Ben joins me now.
Also want to bring back CNN chief political analyst Glorgia Borger, John King, anchor of "Inside Politics" and CNN senior political reporter Nia-Mallika Henderson.
Ben, it's great to have you in the program. Thanks for joining us.
BEN JEALOUS, FORMER NAACP PRESIDENT: Thank you.
COOPER: African-American supporters of Hillary Clinton are hitting Senator Sanders record on racial issues as you know. New York Congressman Hakeem Jeffries said on a conference today that Sanders quote, "has been missing in action on issues of importance to the African-American community", and he is a quote, "new arrival to the dance at the twilight of his career." You are a supporter of his. How do you respond?
JEALOUS: You know, it's really I think shocking in some ways. You know, here's a man who in 19 -- early 1960s, a young man, went to jail with the Congress with racial equality fighting to desegregate housing in Chicago, one of the most violent places as far as resisting the desegregation of housing when very few white men did. My dad, a black leader -- white dad -- my father was one of those few white men who went to jail for that there. I know just how a few did.
In 1988, he supports the Jesse Jackson campaign. One of the few leaders in Vermont to endorse Jesse Jackson. And today he has the -- he's the only presidential candidate with racial justice platform. But then when you look, you know, kind of throughout his career, this is a guy who has talked courageously about the need for racial justice consistently and frankly doesn't have the sort of painful contradictions that we see with Clinton.
COOPER: There is an article in the "Nation" very critical of Secretary Clinton and her husband, the former president, of what they have actually done for African-Americans. It's sort of a rethink on that. I'm wondering, I mean, your support of Sanders, when you look, do you see things that Hillary Clinton has done ...
[20:35:04] JEALOUS: Sure.
COOPER: ... that have been good for the African-American community? What was -- what went into your decision to support Sanders?
JEALOUS: Oh, yeah. Well, look, absolutely. She's done some very courageous things. You know, the problem is that it flips back and forth. So you start with the same chronology, she starts off with Barry Goldwater. Fine. You can say that was about her parents. You move on.
And then she's a lawyer for the Black Panther Party. Then teams up with Marian Edelman of Children's Defense Fund. And all of a sudden she's pushing the super predator theory, a theory that said a child as early as age 6 months could be a sociopath beyond redemption and was never used to explain the for instance the white young men who shot up columbine so tragically but always used against urban black men caught up in drug wars and street crime and used that to push for mass incarceration.
And you can say, "Look, a lot of people in the '90s had bad judgment." But in 2008, you know, seven Democrats on stage, six of them say, of course, if we get rid of the crack powder disparity, we'll make it retroactive so all those mothers who are in prison.
And that's really what you saw. You know, tons of women rolled up in that all so that they can get back to their kids. Hillary Clinton is the only one who said no. "No, we won't do it retroactively just like this year."
You know, after Trey Dravis, after six democratic governors helped abolish the death penalty in their states, she is the only one who supports the death penalty. And that's on these racial justice issues, criminal justice is so central.
JEALOUS: And it's deeply disturbing.
COOPER: Ben, I want to bring in John and Nia and Gloria who have some questions.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Hey there, Ben, one of the big issues that's coming up is the Crime Bill, Clinton signing it. It was a bill that Joe Biden sponsored and ...
HENDERSON: ... that as you said that Hillary Clinton kind of stumped for. But Bernie Sanders also voted for that bill as well.
HENDERSON: So I wonder how you square that contradiction essentially ...
JEALOUS: Certainly mostly ...
HENDERSON: ... criticizing Hillary Clinton for something that Bernie Sanders did as well.
JEALOUS: No, no, no, no. Again, as I said, you know, can almost sort of set aside the '90s because sort of everybody lost their mind. I mean I was an activist out there campaigning against it. I actually questioned President Clinton about it one on one. I got a chance to meet with him when I was a student. But many people lost their minds a lot of CBC members on that vote.
No, the issue was 2008 and the issue is 2016. We can absolutely not criticize Clinton for bills that her husband pushed but we can say, "How was it that you were the chair of the Children's Defense Fund Board and then you actually started to push the super predator theory?"
And, you know, "How is it that you were the only Democrat on stage who would not give retroactive relief to all of those women who got prosecuted for crimes of using drugs and taken away from their children. Why won't you let them go back to their kids, too?"
COOPER: Ben, we got to leave it there. Greta to have you in the program. Thank you, Ben. Ben Jealous. Everyone else, stay with us. Reminder, we're going to be on tomorrow night followed immediately by the Democratic Debate in Milwaukee. We'll be simulcasting it with PBS. So join us at 8:00 and stick around for the debate and then we'll have an analysis after the debate as well.
Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, one victory a piece and possibly many more battles ahead gets under way at 9:00 Eastern. The debate does and we're on at 8:00.
Just ahead, Jeb Bush getting reinforcements on the campaign trail. His brother Former President George W. Bush ramping up his role in South Carolina, a state he first won in 2000, and 2004.
[20:42:29] COOPER: After placing fourth in New Hampshire, Jeb Bush hit the trail today in South Carolina since he actually beat expectations. The granite state, his struggling campaign is counting it as a win. His mother, former first lady Barbara Bush obviously helped him campaign in New Hampshire. Now another family member is lending a hand. Here's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This is President George W. Bush. We live in troubled times with a military deployed around the world. We need a strong leader.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No prizes for guessing who the former president thinks that is. The Jeb Bush campaign is hoping the radio spot and upcoming appearances by his older brother will rally Republicans.
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a popular figure in the Republican Party and he has been incredibly supportive of me. I love him dearly.
FOREMAN: And certainly the former president has long liked the idea of another Bush White House.
G.W. BUSH: Run, Jeb. I think he'd be a great president.
FOREMAN: Long ago, Jeb was often seen as the son most wrapped up in politics, most likely to make a hard run for the oval office. But his brother got there first and ever since, Jeb Bush has struggled to stand out. In the family portrait that already includes two chief executives.
J. BUSH: My views are shaped by my own thinking and my own experiences.
FOREMAN: On the dicey question of whether it was a good idea to invade Iraq, the younger Bush only grudgingly admitted he would have not have made the same decision as his brother, knowing what we know now but explicitly separates himself from his fellow candidates on this point.
J. BUSH: I will tell you that I'm the only Republican that was in office when he was in office, as president, that never disagreed with him. And I'm not going to start now.
FOREMAN: Sure, he teases sometime as when his mother the former first lady came to help him campaign.
J. BUSH: Because she loves me. I'm her favorite son, temporarily.
FOREMAN: But praise for George W. is never far behind.
J. BUSH: My brother has given me really good advice and most of it is to stick with it be patient.
FOREMAN: And now on the campaign trail, the former president is soon expected to be close at hand. Tom foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And back with the panel now. Let's turn to our reporters and our analysts. John, I mean does -- do you think -- I mean I guess the calculus is that this helps him on the campaign trail, otherwise he wouldn't be there.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Otherwise if Jeb he didn't need him and didn't think he could help, he wouldn't be there. Just like Bill Clinton wouldn't be there for Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush would not be asking his brother after asking his mother, after starting the campaign saying, "I'm my own man."
KING: He needs him.
[20:45:00] And look there's a risk in this. There's no question that George W. Bush is still popular with a lot of conservatives. There's no question that he saved his campaign in 2000 after being thumped by John McCain in New Hampshire going down to South Carolina in 2000 when he could still sell compassionate conservatism. The question now is what is the Bush Brand? George W. Bush is a great campaigner. He's a good back-stabbing politician. He's good in small rooms. He's good in kind of events you kind of do in South Carolina to get yourself going. Like Bill Clinton, does it tell some voters who are looking for things that are new that this guy is, you know, that this is a brand that looks back on yesterday? I think that's the risk. But clearly they needed to take it.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, George W. Bush has a 77 percent approval rating in the Republican Party. So I don't know what's it is in South Carolina. I was looking for that but don't see it yet. We'll probably get a poll out on that tomorrow. But it is the dynastic politics that John was just talking about that people don't love this year. And Hillary Clinton has suffered from that to a degree. And Jeb has suffered from it, which is why his campaign bumper sticker is "Jeb!" or maybe not but not Bush.
BORGER: So suddenly his brother is down there. South Carolina may be OK. Not so much in a lot of other parts of the country.
HENDERSON: Yeah, and part of it is the Bush brand that's related to foreign policy and a strong military. That's something I think Jeb Bush is going to really going to push down there. He's been running ads touting that he could be a commander in chief. And I think he's going to also try to attack John Kasich over this as well for trying to cut the military brass ...
HENDERSON: ... and things like that. So I think that's part of what they are trying to do. Remind them of a strong leader and some people think.
COOPER: Let's turn to our Republican commentators. What do you think? Does it help him?
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: John's right, I think the big risk there is at a time where you are seeing folks sort of reject the idea of dynasties and legacies, that this is a reminder of that. But I think what the Bush campaign is probably making a calculation that you can't run from your blood lines. And since you can't do that, why not take the best parts of it and try to reinforce it as some part of brand as with seriousness and national security bona fides. So I think that's what they're going to try and do. They're going to try and reemphasize that.
COOPER: I also wonder if Donald Trump is now going to attack George W. Bush at this next debate because he's already attacked him in the past.
MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, I think this is a good thing to do for this reason. George W. Bush has an incredible connection with the United States military. I saw him in his last months in office go unannounced, not take the press, and go and sit in rooms with soldiers who have given a whole bunch to this country. And they revere him.
You think that there's a joint defense base down there. The defense department only has 12 of them. One is in South Carolina. 90,000- plus people who are -- would identify with him because of the way he treated the men and women who served in the military there's a huge Marine Corps air station. I think it's the largest one in the country is in South Carolina. There's a navy depot there. Lots of retired military. I think it was -- is this enough to stop and flip it around? I don't know. I think it's smart because he will connect with those ...
BORGER: And Lindsey Graham who endorsed Jeb said to them, "I won't do it unless you bring your brother." He is really important.
COOPER: We've got to take a quick break. More with our panel just ahead, which way will South Carolina go? Of course, it's up to the voters, some of whom haven't made up their minds yet, many of them even if they are leaning toward one candidate or another.
Randi Kaye sat down with a group of undecided voters in South Carolina. We're going to hear their thoughts next.
[20:52:24] COOPER: With the New Hampshire Primary done and the clock ticking down to South Carolina. It's time for that ever elusive group of undecided voters to start thinking long and hard about who they'll choose. Randi Kaye watched the New Hampshire primary returns with some of those voters in Charleston. Here's the report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With the South Carolina primary vote just around the corner, these undecided voters know time is not on their side.
Are you feeling the pressure to decide?
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Yes, I am. But I am leaning heavily toward Hillary.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Between Rubio and Cruz.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Right now it's Rubio, but I like Kasich, too.
KAYE: We invited these 65 undecided Republican and Democratic South Carolina voters to watch the New Hampshire Primary results come in. Some were inspired, like this woman who is now considering Jeb Bush. LORI OAKES, UNDECIDED REPUBLICAN VOTER: I think he's finally, you know, putting his dukes up and fighting back finally. And he's compassionate. And I just -- I haven't seen any compassion out of any of the Republican candidates at all.
KAYE: This Republican voter is deciding between Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz.
Who do you think you'd line up the most?
HOPE STEEN, UNDECIDED REPUBLICAN VOTER: I lined up with politically Trump the most but I can't vote for Trump.
KAYE: This man likes Trump's business background but isn't sold yet.
So what's holding you back from saying I'm 100 percent with Trump?
SAMUEL ROSE, UNDECIDED REPUBLICAN VOTER: His attitude. He is a bully. He does say what he means. He rubs people the wrong way, and he needs to compromise.
KAYE: Barbara Johnson usually votes Democratic, but not this year. She dislikes her options so much she's voting Republican, if she can settle on a candidate.
When are you going to decide, Barbara?
BARBARA JOHNSON, UNDECIDED DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I hope soon.
KAYE: You and the rest of this room.
Barbara likes Rubio but is now leaning more toward John Kasich. And she's not the only one turning against Rubio.
And who decided to vote against Marco Rubio after that debate? Raise your hand. Wow. A whole big group of you. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. About nine of you.
On the Democratic side, this voter has taken Bernie Sanders off her list. But even so, she can't commit to Hillary Clinton.
Are you considering Hillary Clinton?
ANDREA STEVENSON, UNDECIDED DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Yeah, I guess that's all we got, right, on the Democratic side.
KAYE: What don't you like about Hillary Clinton?
STEVENSON: She just doesn't seem honest. She just seems like I can't trust her. She's so flip-floppy.
KAYE: This law student is leaning Sanders, even though he usually votes Republican.
CHIP DUNN, REPUBLICAN VOTER LEANING SANDERS: My debt is kind of crazy. And I feel something needs to be done about student loans because it's out of control. I'm going to be in debt forever.
KAYE: And with Martin O'Malley out of the race this college student is now giving Sanders a second look.
[20:55:05] Shy like his stance on health care and education.
BECCA STARKES, UNDECIDED DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I like Bernie Sanders policies but I'm not sure they're practical and while I support them hypothetically, I'm not sure they would actually be able to be enacted. So ...
KAYE: Not sure he can make it happen?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Randi joins us now. Did any of the undecided voters actually make up their minds?
KAYE: They did, Anderson. Many of them, of our 65 undecided voters, actually 23, Anderson, decided last night on a candidate. 10 of them went for Bernie Sanders, 5of them went for Donald Trump. And then since John Kasich did so well in New Hampshire, I asked the group did any of you decide on John Kasich. Not a single person would commit to John Kasich last night.
Hillary Clinton also made some headway but, Anderson, as you heard in that piece there is that problem of trust among these undecided voters. One woman telling me that she keeps hearing from Hillary Clinton a lot of Obama's rhetoric, his policies, his plans. She wants to hear something fresh and another woman shared her concern that Hillary Clinton won't be able to bring in the independents and their votes in the general election certainly. So she's just not ready to commit. But on the bright side, 23 people found their candidate last night, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Randi, thanks very much.
Coming up on the next hour of "360", more on the Republican campaign invasion of -- that's on in South Carolina. Now fully under way. The candidates hoping to sway those undecided voters Randi spoke with.
And how the establishment is regrouping to fight Donald Trump and more when "360' comes back.
[21:00:12] COOPER: Nine p.m. here in Washington, a whole new world out on the campaign trail.