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CNN NEWSROOM

Ted Cruz Versus Donald Trump; CNN/ORC Poll Indicates Clinton Leading Sanders Among Black Voters; At Least 28 Killed in Explosion in Ankara, Turkey; Kerry Calls China's Increased Militarization Serious Concern; Apple Challenging Federal Judge's Order to Unlock Terrorist's iPhone; LA Hospital Paid Ransom to Hacker after Attack on Computer System; Nike Drops Manny Pacquiao for Controversial Statements. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired February 18, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[00:00:02] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and thank you for joining us. I'm Isha Sesay.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Vause; this is "NEWSROOM L.A." We'll start with the race for president. Three republicans who want to be in the White House made their personal appeals to South Carolina voters on Wednesday night at a CNN Town Hall.

SESAY: Ted Cruz, who is now leading a new national poll over Donald Trump, answered the questions about the businessman's lawsuit threat.

VAUSE: Cruz said he laughed out loud when he found Trump had sent a cease and desist letter over (inaudible), highlighting Trump's past position on abortion. He said he mostly used Trump's own words against him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED CRUZ (R-TX) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This has not been a typical race by any sense and I don't think anyone is surprised that Donald is threatening to sue people. he has done that most of his adult life but this letter really was -- look, I practiced law 20 years and this letter really pressed the bounds of the most frivolous and ridiculous letters I've ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Donald Trump talked about that lawsuit during his own Town Hall Wednesday night on cable network MSNBC.

SESAY: When asked about Cruz calling him the king of frivolous lawsuits, Trump said his position on abortion has evolved, and he is just trying to keep Cruz honest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've had great success with lawsuits. I've had great success in things I do and I don't know that we're going to have a lawsuit but we certainly want to keep somebody honest. you know, when he makes statements like, as an example, I'm pro-life. He said I'm not pro-life. He can't say that. It's like saying --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But your opponents would say thought you haven't always a been pro-life.

TRUMP: No, that's true, and Ronald Reagan likewise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Well, for more about the CNN Republican Town Hall, we're joined by Jeff Corless, former Political Director for Carly Fiorina.

SESAY: Also Dylan Byers, CNN's Senior Media and Politics reporter. Gentlemen, welcome; good to have you with us.

As you saw from Ted Cruz's response to the cease and desist letter from Donald Trump, he merely laughed, and clearly thinks he tapped a rich vein he is going to continue to tap, tying Trump and his evolving abortion position and Planned Parenthood support. What did you make of it, Dylan?

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: Well, look, I think throughout the Republican Primary Donald Trump has led the way, in terms of defining the other candidates. He defined Jeb Bush as low energy. He defined Ted Cruz as someone who wasn't unlikable. What Ted Cruz is now trying to do, and he's doing it at a key moment, right before the South Carolina primary, is he's trying to define Donald Trump.

I think, look, Donald Trump has a way of sort of bringing back the narrative into his own court. I think he is doing that with this threat of a lawsuit but this sort of charge about Trump's shifting positions on the question of abortion, on Planned Parenthood, things like that is something that looks like might be sticking in South Carolina.

VAUSE: But it didn't work, I ask this to Jeff, this whole thing about Trump's previous position hasn't worked until now but something changed during the weekend debates when he sort of revealed his hand about 9/11, the Iraq war. Some people say that that showed he was really a liberal because he took some of these extreme liberal positions. Is that something which has really changed now that these previous allegations, you're liberal on abortion. Your pro-gay marriage, all this kind of stuff, that now Trump is finally vulnerable on something like that?

JEFF CORLESS, FORMER POLITICAL DIRECTOR FOR CARLY FIORINA: Well, I think loyalty is a real issue with the voters and I think that when you look at the turning point in that debate, it was when Donald Trump said that George W. Bush was basically responsible for 9/11. That will cut deep with the conservative base of Republican voters. I think it remains to be seen, but I think we're going see a turning point in this race where that starts to force the voters to choose between Donald Trump, and is he really just an entertainer, and Ted Cruz, who I think you saw in the Town Hall tonight really tried to set the difference between him and Donald. He is the serious candidate in this race, whether people believe that or not remains to be seen but I think that's --

SESAY: I'm struck by that, you saying, Jeff, that it's going to cut with the republican base because Jeb isn't benefitting from it yet, looking at the latest polls.

CORLESS: No, and I don't think it's about Jeb Bush. I think this is about the Republican voters and the Republican voters might criticize George W. Bush for a lot of things but the one thing they'll never criticize him for, in fact Democrats aren't going to criticize him for, is blaming him for 9/11. I don't think anybody believes that. So when Donald Trump starts to say things that really are unbelievable, not just over the top, that's where I think the voters start to take a step back and say wait a minute, am I really with this guy.

VAUSE: And Dylan we've got this situation now where saw in the Town Hall, we heard earlier that basically Cruz saying bring it on, pal. Bring on that lawsuit. Trump is the alpha dog. He's the big leader of the pack. Does he now have to follow through? Does he look weak if he doesn't?

BYERS: That's a really good question. Time and time again throughout this campaign, it's been a question of how far will Donald Trump go. We always don't think he is going to follow through with something; we didn't think he was going [00:05:01] to skip out on the FOX News debate in January and he went ahead and did it. I would not put it past Donald Trump to come forward and actually bring a lawsuit if he thought it would be politically advantageous to his campaign. I think for the time being, the money is on him sort of holding it over Ted Cruz as this sort of threat, this sort of applause line that he can go to at his rallies. I'm not sure I actually see him going so far, although Ted Cruz now leading Donald Trump in the latest national poll. So that might change the dynamic --

VAUSE: There is a margin of error, we should say, but it's a dramatic turnaround.

SESAY: Jeff, we've had some people on our air tonight, other political watchers, other analysts, saying they felt actually Ted Cruz is spending so much time talking about Trump kind of lost his moment here and very much Trump has gotten into his head. How did you see it?

CORLESS: Well, he is always complimenting Trump. He is not willing to attack Trump. He always says he likes Donald Trump, and that really does play into the hand of Donald Trump and the position Donald Trump is in and I wouldn't read too much into the national polls. I mean, you get one poll that says Ted Cruz is in the lead. I think we need to stay focused on what happens state by state. What's going to happen in South Carolina? What happens in Nevada? That's really going to be what sets the momentum, and I think everybody knows that.

VAUSE: Because Donald Trump wasn't there tonight, he was on a competing channel but he kind of was there in the audience because there was this one question from one voter and it was about -- it was to Ted Cruz. It was about his citizenship. Could he put that to bed once and for all? Ted Cruz responded. He said the law and the constitutional are clear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: If U.S. service members are traveling abroad, if they're defending this country, Bobby mentioned before he had a couple of deployments, if he had a child overseas, that child is natural born citizen by virtue of the child's parents. Likewise, if American missionaries are traveling overseas, their children are natural born citizens; that's why John McCain was a natural born citizen, even though he was born in panama, because his parents were U.S. citizens; that's why George Romney, Mitt Romney's dad was a natural born citizen, even though he was born in Mexico when his parents were Mormon missionaries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: He dodged the question because the question was why don't you put it for bed once and for all. Why don't you go get this declaration, whatever it is that Trump wants? He kind of went back to his talking points. I just found it amazing that that came up from a voter, because it is a frivolous question.

CORLESS: Well it just shows that people are thinking about it and that Donald Trump has said it enough times. But I think what's even more important is that Ted Cruz keeps talking about it. He doesn't shift away from it. In fact, in that clip he was explaining himself. So when you're explaining, you're losing.

SESAY: Well what's the alternative?

CORLESS: Well the alternative, I think, is for him to answer the question more bluntly and put it to bed, like John is saying, and I don't think he is really doing that.

BYERS: The problem is he has these very lengthy answers, right, which are sort of keeping this issue alive and, you know, as much as we sort of wish that presidential campaigns were about substance and about these explanation, they're really not, right? They're about what we're talking about and yet another example, as I said earlier, of Trump being able to dictate what the narrative is. Every second that Ted Cruz spends on stage addressing this issue of citizenship, whether or not he is even eligible to run for president, those are bad moments for Ted Cruz.

VAUSE: We also -- sorry, we need to be on this other bit -- sorry, between Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. We want to get to the liar, liar pans on fire stuff. They defended their actions at the Town Hall. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You called Ted Cruz a liar. He came out today and said your campaign is, "relying on fabrication, refuted claims point by point." Do you stand by the assertion he is lying?

MARCO RUBIO (R-FL) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well I said has been lying because if you say something that isn't true and you say it over and over again and you know it's not true, there is no other word for it. When it's about your record you have to clear it up because if you don't then people say well, it must be true; you didn't dispute it. He's done that a number of times.

We saw what he did to Dr. Carson in Iowa, which was wrong. We saw yesterday Trey Gowdy, somebody came up with a fake Facebook post saying Trey Gowdy was no longer endorsing me; a very popular congressman here in South Carolina. So, these things are disturbing and need to be addressed and I'll address them.

CRUZ: Both Donald Trump and Marco Rubio are following this pattern, that whenever anyone points to their actual record, to what they've said, to what they've voted on, to what they've done, they start screaming liar, liar, liar. I mean, it is the oddest thing. I can't think of any precedent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Jeff, when you hear all of this, the back and forth, the use of the liar word, does it leave you thinking that, you know, the Republican Party has hit an all-time low? When you look at where the rhetoric is right now --

VAUSE: I'm sure they haven't hit it yet.

[Laughter]

BYERS: There is always lower to go.

VAUSE: Oh, yes.

CORLESS: I think what I saw here, and I think what the voters are seeing, is two-on-one. You have Rubio and Trump really putting Cruz on the defense and at the right moment when Cruz is trying to peak and that's something I think Cruz is struggling with because he has spent most of his time, in the clips you've shown, explaining himself. We saw him doing a lot of explaining and long-winded answers in the --

VAUSE: Did you think Rubio was pretty confident? He seems to be the guy who is sort of basking in the glow of GOP, you know, preferential treatment right now. [00:10:02] He picked up a big endorsement today from the state governor, Nikki Haley. He was still stuck on his talking points, I thought, but he seemed very confident with them this time.

CORLESS: He also seemed very comfortable, and I think the one thing Marco Rubio has done that a lot of the other candidates haven't done, is he has been on a consistent trajectory, a steady climb rather than up and down and back and forth. So I think you have seen him probably the most steady and disciplined of all of them. So I think he is the one to watch. BYERS: Yes, I would just also say remember that in New Hampshire, Rubio really suffered this meme that he was robotic, that he kept repeating himself, that he was like a robot with glitches. He has largely put that behind him. He came out of New Hampshire saying, look, that was my fault; it won't happen again. He came down to South Carolina. He won a huge endorsement today from Governor Nikki Haley and he was very confident in tonight's Town Hall.

SESAY: And well received I thought.

BYERS: Very well received.

VAUSE: But no applause, though, when Ted Cruz finished speaking, did you notice that? When Carson spoke, -- we didn't talk about Carson because, you know, we didn't really get time, but when Carson finished talking, when Rubio finished talking, people clapped. When Cruz finished talking, no one clapped. Very telling.

CORLESS: He gave a lot of answers tonight that were very lengthy and I don't think I heard applause after a single one of them.

SESAY: Agreed.

BYERS: No one applauds when he sang.

VAUSE: No kidding.

SESAY: You were trying to tell a joke? Yes, many moments for us to go over. Jeff Coreless, Dylan Byers, appreciate it; thank you. The conversation will surely go on. Thank you.

All right, well, on the Democratic side, voters in Nevada are split when it comes to Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders ahead of Saturday's caucus there.

VAUSE: According to a new CNN-ORC poll of likely caucus goers, 48- percent say they support Secretary Clinton. 47-percent say they're with Senator Sanders. 4 in 10 voters say the economy is the top issue.

SESAY: With Iowa and New Hampshire in the rear view mirror, the race between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders is shifting to the more ethnically diverse states of Nevada and South Carolina. Both candidates going all-out to win the black vote. Vanessa Deluca, Editor-In-Chief of "Essence" Magazine joins me now to discuss this and more. Vanessa, Welcome. Welcome to the program.

VANESS DELUCA, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "ESSENCE" MAGAZINE: Thank you.

SESAY: Looking at the CNN-ORC poll released on Tuesday, Hillary Clinton is leading Bernie Sanders among black voters, 65-percent to 28-percent. We know that Clinton and her husband both have traditionally, you know, garnered support among black voters. It's clear that they stand by her, but what I'm unclear on right now, in this election cycle, is whether they're excited about Hillary. What's your sense? DELUCA: Well, you know, it's interesting because last year we conducted a poll with the Black Woman's Round Table, a civic engagement group of our audience, and about 2,000 women, black women, told us that, you know, while about 78-percent of them supported a democratic candidate, there were 18-percent who said that they're undecided, that they're really kind of up for grabs. So to me that means that any candidate could potentially, you know, pull a sway almost 20-percent of the vote if they're answering the issues that are of importance to black women.

SESAY: So what are those issues to black women and to the broader community aside? And how is that interloper, if you will, if that's what we're to call Bernie Sanders, what do you make of his efforts to win them over?

DELUCA: Well, what our audience told us in this poll is that there were three issues that were really key: affordable health care, a living wage, and college affordability. Those three issues were top of mind and then when you look at the millennial audience, ages 18 to 34, their key issues with also criminal justice reform and quality public education. So the candidates that speak to all of those issues broadly, which, you know, when you look at Hillary, she has definitely been a strong advocate for years around affordable health care. She has a plan for college affordability and she has definitely been on the forefront around a living wage. But Bernie Sanders, interestingly enough, also has a very strong plan and affordable health care, which includes prescription costs, which, you know, are staggering and then also looking at Medicare and Medicaid. So he definitely has a way in to this audience if he chooses to, you know, highlight and take advantage of it.

SESAY: And how important is it to black voters as you speak to your friends, and as you look at the data, how important is it that they wrap themselves up in the Obama legacy, that they stand side by side, shoulder to shoulder with the President?

Deluca: Well, I think it is interesting to see someone like Hillary Clinton who has clearly stated that she's all for the Affordable Care Act, and that's [00:15:01] something that she would continue and that was the number one issue that our audience told us that they're concerned about. So clearly she stepped out in front and kind of decide that she is going to own that issue. That's really important. I mean, I don't think that any candidate should take the black vote for granted. They shouldn't just assume because people -- we tend to vote primarily democratic, that we're not going listen to opposing views that might actually be more in our favor. So it's really kind of, you know, a big open game here and it's for anyone to win, if they're delivering the right message.

SESAY: Vanessa Deluca, it's such a pleasure speaking to you tonight. Thank you so much for the insight.

DELUCA: Thank you.

VAUSE: A short break here on CNN. When we come back, Turkey is condemning what it calls a terrorist attack in the country's capital. We'll tell you what it could mean for Turkey's battle against ISIS as well as Kurdish militants.

SESAY: Plus, Pope Francis goes to the U.S.-Mexico border with a scathing message for both countries. That story is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:20:06] (HEADLINES)

SESAY: Now the U.S. is describing an attack in the Turkish capital as horrific and cowardly. At least 28 people were killed in an explosion near a military convoy stopped at a traffic light. It happened near the Armed Forces Headquarters and Parliament in Ankara.

VAUSE: Turkish official says it was car bomb and so far no one has claimed responsibility, but the Turkish military is calling the blast a terrorist attack.

SESAY: Well the blast is the latest in a series of attacks in Turkey and our Senior International Correspondent, Ivan Watson, joins us from Hong Kong. Ivan, Turkey, as we know, facing multiple security threats. Does the targeting of the military, right there in the Turkish capital, provide any clues as to who is responsible for this attack?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, via satellite: Well, there are two main groups that Turkey is essentially fighting and they are the militant group ISIS, of course, which Turkey is part of a coalition battling across the border in Syria, and it has been linked to a series of deadly attacks in Turkey, including a bombing in Istanbul in January that killed 10 people, most of them German tourists, and then in October, a horrific double suicide bombing that targeted basically leftist political activists in Ankara, and that killed close to 100 people.

The second main group that Turkey is battling are Kurdish militants linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party and there you've had the Turkish government and security forces battling Kurdish militants in the predominantly Kurdish parts of southeastern Turkey since last summer. That's a conflict that goes

on nearly 30 years ebbing and flowing and more complicated by the fact that in recent days, Turkey has been shelling across the border against allied Kurdish militants on the Syrian side of the border. Isha?

SESAY: Ivan, the Turkish President saying that these kinds of attacks will strengthen his country's determination to respond in kind. What do we expect the response to look like?

WATSON: Well, that's part of the problem here. I mean, Turkey's in a bind. Its strategy in Syria appears to be falling apart and the consequences of that horrific conflict across the border in Syria increasingly seem to

spill over into Turkey, both with the ISIS attacks and also with the increase of violence involving the Kurdish militants that seems to be bleeding across the border there. Turkey looks increasingly vulnerable to the violence in Syria, to the refugee outflows that come into Turkey that increase the security threats in Turkey as well. You've already got the Turkish armed forces and security forces battling Kurdish militants in the southeast of the country. You've already got Turkey supporting the coalition against ISIS.

It's hard to know how much further you can take the conflicts on both sides of the border, especially as the Russian assisted military offensive against rebels on the Syrian side of the border seems to have more and more a success, and it's pushing back Turkey's proxies on the Syrian side of the border. Turkey is really in a bind right now and the society is so politically polarized right now between supporters and opponents of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish president. Add to the fact that Turkey is essentially battling militants from the country's largest ethnic minority, the Kurds, and that has inflamed ethnic tensions in the country too. It's very, very complicated right now. Isha?

SESAY: Yeah, it certainly is. Ivan Watson joining us there from Hong Kong. appreciate it, as Turkey faces challenges on multiple fronts. They face a great deal. We're looking at pictures there, live from Ankara, Turkey, where it is approaching 7:30 in the morning. An increased security presence in the light of this latest attack there. Ivan, our thanks to you.

VAUSE: We'll move on now. the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry calling evidence of China's increased militarization in the South China Sea a serious concern. He is urging Beijing to resolve its land dispute with neighboring nations through diplomacy and not military force. He says the U.S. will talk further with China in the coming days.

SESAY: Beijing says its sea and air defenses have been on Woody Island for years. China controls the Paracel Island Chain, but Taiwan and Vietnam also claim it.

VAUSE: Well for much more let's bring in Peter Navarro; he's a business professor at the University of California Irvine. He's written extensively about China as well as its military. Peter, thank you for being with us.

Let's take China at its word. Let's assume that these missiles have in fact been on the island for years, as they say. Does that actually change

anything here? Do missiles get squatters' rights?

PETER NAVARRO, ECONOMIST & BUSINESS PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE: John, I don't believe that they've been on there for years. Let's put things in perspective here. The Paracel Islands were taken by force, at gunpoint, from China in the early 1970s. The fact that they have introduced the surface-to-air missiles into a theater where they claim 80-percent of the South China Sea means there is only two targets, that would be Vietnamese planes and U.S. planes. There's a big dispute between the U.S. and China over what constitutes the boundaries of freedom of navigation and overflight in the region.

People should view this at least somewhat with alarm because if one of those missiles ever gets fired, you would see an immediate stock market crash, a tremendous shock to the global economy, and things could escalate from there. So this is a very serious problem. If it spreads from the Paracel Islands over to the Spratley Island Group, John, where China is building these so-called fortress garrison's, artificial islands, that would be really, really be a serious escalation.

VAUSE: I guess the bottom line what you're saying is it doesn't really matter when they put them there. The problem is they're there now, regardless of when they were discovered. You know, we've heard from the U.S. Secretary of State who says he's going to have a very serious conversation with Beijing. How does the Chinese Government respond to that sort of engagement?

NAVARRO: Well, John, I tell you, I'm very worried at this point that there is a disconnect between the civilian government in China and the People's Liberation Army. We don't know whether the People's Liberation Army is kind of pushing the envelope of their power in the South China Sea. The reality is that the United States has very few ships to challenge China in that area. America's allies and friends, Vietnam, Singapore, the Philippines, Indonesia are all looking to the U.S. for support, but it's not clear that the U.S. has the firepower to prevail. Our navy is shrinking. We're not building new ships. So China, I think, thinks that it can push this envelope, and that's the danger, because it's a red line for the U.S.

VAUSE: Yes, this is a very tense region right now and of course something like this just makes matters even worse. Peter, it's always good to speak with you. We have to leave it there though but we appreciate it. Thanks.

NAVARRO: Thank you so much, John.

SESAY: Time now for a break. The privacy battle broadens between tech companies and the U.S. government. Why Apple's CEO says he won't help authorities hack into a terrorist iPhone, and why it matters for you.

VAUSE: Also ahead, (inaudible) threat to patient's privacy. A cyberattack shuts down a hospital and forces administrators to pay a ransom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:31:58] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. you're watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

And I'm Isha Sesay. The headlines this hour: (HEADLINES)

VAUSE: The U.S. government and one of the world's biggest tech companies are in a fight. Apple is challenging a federal judge's order to help authorities unlock a terrorist iPhone.

SESAY: Apple's CEO is furious and even the White House and a Donald Trump are taking sides. Lori Segall has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORI SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a move Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, is calling unprecedented, and a threat to the security of customers. A judge is

ordering Apple to help the FBI break into a cell phone used by one of the San Bernardino shooters. The FBI is asking to disable an iPhone security feature that locks out users and erases the phone's data after the wrong password is entered ten times. Cook says that would mean building a new operating system with potential to unlock any iPhone. He says if the FBI could use it as a back door into your iPhone, hackers could too. He has spoken openly about this in the past.

TIM COOK, CEO, APPLE: There have been people that suggest that we should have a back door but the reality is if you put a back door in, that book door is for everybody, for good guys and bad guys.

CHARLIE ROSS, CORRESPONDENT, "60 MINUTES": Help me understand how you get to the government's dilemma.

COOK: I don't believe that the trade-off here is privacy versus national security.

SEGALL: Today the White House spokesman disputed it would open the door to all phones.

JOSH EARNEST, PRESS SECRETARY, WHITE HOUSE: They are not asking Apple to redesign its product or to create a new back door to one of their products. They're simply asking for something that would have an impact on this one device.

SEGALL: Using other means, like cell phone tower data, the FBI has been able to extract location data from the shooters' phone. They're hoping to gather more valuable information, but security experts say this particular move could have implications for regular civilians.

DAVID KENNEDY, SECURITY RESEARCHER: This basically reduces the security over all iPhone devices and platforms and wouldn't necessarily be the most secure platform out there today.

SEGALL: Putting Apple in the position of choosing to fight against terrorism and the fight against hackers. Given Apple's choice, it's now facing not just a legal fight, but a reputation battle that has even hit the campaign trail.

DONALD TRUMP (R) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But to think that Apple won't allow us to get into her cell phone, who do they think they are? Now we [00:35:01] have to open it up. This is one case, and that is the case that certainly we should be able to get into the phone.

MARCO RUBIO (R-FL) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you passed a law in the U.S. that says we don't allow encryption or there has to be back doors, there is already existing encrypted software that will continue to remain in place and we can't control what foreign countries, what is designed in other countries. SEGALL: Bringing center stage on an election year a debate on privacy

versus protection; more relevant than ever in the digital age.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Our Lori Segal reporting there. We're joined now by Hemu Nigam. He's an internet security analyst and the founder and CEO of online security firm SSP blue. it is good to have you back with us.

HEMU NIGAM, CEO, SSP BLUE: Thanks.

SESAY: You know, this situation that we're in with Apple basically saying that this sets a precedent for the FBI and other legal efforts to want to unlock other phones. Do you see it in the same way? Is their concern warranted?

NIGAM: I actually don't think so because, in fact, in California, there is all sorts of debates of what happens to your privacy rights when you die and in this particular case, you have a dead terrorist. It's not a live human being, first of all. Second, Apple recently had really, really heavily focused on showing off that they're encrypting their phones. So I think this is a really a business move because if they had predicted this kind of scenario, which I don't think anybody frankly predicted, they wouldn't be thinking about this, just simply unlock the numbers as opposed to decrypt the phone. That's not what the government is asking for.

VAUSE: Okay; if it's a business move, let's play devil's advocate here, because suddenly it now looks like Apple is choosing the privacy of a dead terrorist over national security. What are they marketing to now, jihadist groups all over the world? Your messages will be safe with us?

NIGAM: Well, actually, that is the message they're going to hear, even if Apple doesn't want to send that message because ultimately Apple has 50 plus percent of the share in the United States. Outside the United States, they only have 15-percent, the rest belongs to Android. So in order to increase that, privacy is critical outside the United States just as much as it is to the customer base in the United States.

SESAY: But you made the point that, you know, there is a little bit of doublespeak going on in here, on the part of Apple. It's not as if the issue of privacy is sacrosanct to them. They're doing other things that contravene privacy of others.

NIGAM: Right, other companies are. If you look back, there is this argument going on from Apple and others, well, it's a slippery scale. What will the government do next? The fact of the matter is all of these private entities get search warrants, subpoenas, wiretap orders from the government constantly. So we're running those things right now and no one is worried about the slippery scale there. So I think that's more of a distraction of an argument than it is anything real.

SESAY: Very interesting. VAUSE: Stay with us.

SESAY: Stay with us, Hemu, because we want to talk to you about another issue. We want your analysis on that.

A hospital here in Los Angeles says it was forced to pay a $17,000 ransom after a hacker attacked its computer system.

VAUSE: Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center says the hacker locked up the system with malware and demanded money. In a statement, the hospital's president said, "The quickest and most efficient way to restore our systems and administrative functions was to pay the ransom and obtain the decryption key." Hospital also saying these initial reports, the ransom is $3.5 million not quite the case. They wanted 40 bit coins. Not surprising, though, that the hospital paid up because even the FBI, there was one agent, I think in October last year, who said to people if you get hit by this ransom ware attack, this stuff is so good, it's just easier to pay.

NIGAM: That's true, and actually what we often say, don't negotiate with terrorists, don't negotiate with hackers, but when you're a hospital and your job, and your Socratic Oath was to save lives, and I'm sure doctors didn't think we're going to save lives by paying somebody off, in this particular case you have to make that decision and you have to do it. The unfortunate part is they with in this situation in the first place. What they should have been doing is focusing on their security. In fact, yesterday, the day before this all happened, the Attorney General in California released a report that said hospitals and the health care sectors actually the worst when it comes to retail, financial and health care in security and she asked that that sector beef up the security.

SESAY: Are there foolproof ways to protect yourself from something like this, as a hospital?

NIGAM: Yes; absolutely. If they keep up their security systems. They even employ whitehat hackers, people who go in and break into the system and see if it's possible. They can do education of their own employees and say hey, when you get this type of phishing e-mail, don't click because that's how it happens.

VAUSE: That's the problem, though. Someone somewhere within a big organization gets an e-mail, and they're always going to click; isn't it? That's the weak link.

NIGAM: Yes, it is. It is so tempting to click that, but the reality is if you have malware protection up to date on your networks, this wouldn't happen. The second reality is, if you protect your network from just, not outside and [00:40:02] go anywhere you want, outside and go only to those place that you should be allowed to go, limit that access. Hackers are going to say, you know, for $17,000 I better move on.

SESAY: Very quickly, on the point of the amount of money they asked for, only 17,000? I think it was on the low end. NIGAM: It is absolutely on the low end but I think there is something much more big -- much bigger going on here, and that is hackers are testing the grounds. Health care sector is weak. Hit the Hollywood Presbyterian today. Hit Cedars-Sinai tomorrow, much bigger hospital, way more sensitive -

VAUSE: Deeper pockets.

NIGAM: -- deeper pockets and patient records.

VAUSE: Hemu, we leave there it. Thank you.

SESAY: Appreciate it; thank you. Now Nike counters with a knockout blow. Just ahead, what the sports retailer has to say about Manny Pacquiao's anti-gay comments, despite his apology.

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VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody; and to Moscow now. And provocative anti-smoking posters are grabbing people's attention. The (inaudible) ad shows an altered image of U.S. President Barack Obama smoking, a habit he says he has effectively kicked; apparently he still sneaks one every now and then.

SESAY: It reads, "Smoking kills more people than Obama, although he kills a lot of people. Don't smoke. Don't be like Obama." It's not clear who placed the posters, but they come as President Obama faces heavy criticism in Russia. Still, an opposition lawmaker said the ad disgusted him.

VAUSE: Boxer Manny Pacquiao has lost his endorsement deal with Nike after making some very controversial statements. The eight-time world champion boxer was campaigning for a senate seat in the Philippines this week when he said gay people are worse than animals.

SESAY: Pacquiao later apologized saying, "I'm sorry for hurting people by comparing homosexuals to animals. I still stand on my belief that I'm against same-sex marriage of what the Bible says." Nike called the comments abhorrent and said they no longer have a relationship with the boxer.

VAUSE: You've been watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay. John and I will be back at the top of the hour with a look at the day's top stores.

VAUSE: But first, "World Sports" starts after a quick break.

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