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Democrats, Republicans Face Off in Five States; Families Devastated by Flint Water Crisis; Lines Out the Door at Kentucky Caucus Site; Rubio Scrambles to Undo Trump in Florida; Romney Denounces Trump as Phone and Fraud; Aired 1-2p ET

Aired March 5, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:11] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, 1:00 p.m. Eastern. Thank you all for being with me. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

And it is quite a day on the campaign trail. It is Super Saturday, if you haven't heard, capping off one of the busiest weeks in the race for president. The candidate pool is leaner, the attacks are fiercer and the stakes are even higher. A total of five states are holding contests today.

On the Republican side, 155 delegates up for grabs in Kentucky, Maine, Louisiana, and Kansas. Democrats also voting today in Louisiana and Kansas. They are caucusing in Nebraska. And there are 109 delegates at stake for Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton.

But the Democrats are also looking ahead. Sanders holding a press conference in Cleveland, Ohio, one of the most crucial primary states. The Republicans are hitting as many states as possible in the next 24 hours. Tensions high this morning with rivals Ted Cruz and Donald Trump -- spoke to those caucusing at the exact same location in Wichita, Kansas. Trump was met by a clash of cheers and boos as he took the stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's go to Rosa Flores. She's there in Wichita.

And, Rosa, not only were they in the same room but the lines, the lines of people that have come out today is incredible.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's incredible, Poppy. I just talked to the GOP organizer. And he says that Kansas has a great problem, and that is that so many people are here to cast their ballot.

Take a look at just how long these lines are. Of course, the GOP has plans for this. They said they planned for it because they knew that if Donald Trump and Ted Cruz came here to Wichita to speak to all of these voters, they knew that the turnout was going to be great. So they have some contingency plans, Poppy. So all these people will be able to cast their vote, even though some of them have waited for an hour, hour and a half to do that.

So what's going to happen? Hear this. At 2:00 p.m., the GOP tells me, that they will have their volunteers stop the line at the end of the line at 2:00, and everybody in front of that line will be able to cast their vote. Will there be enough ballots? Of course that's the big question. Yes, there will be enough ballots. The GOP says that they had contingency plans made because they knew that there's going to be a lot of people interested in doing this.

So I want to show you the process. So you see the line and how long this line is. Hi, hello, excuse me. You can see that all of these folks have been waiting more than an hour to make sure that they can cast their ballots. Some of them are spillovers from Trump's rally earlier today. And here is where voters check in.

Now remember, you have to be a registered Republican in the state of Kansas to be here. You present your ID, and then you're given a sticker.

I want to show you where people are actually casting their ballots. That happens right over here. I chatted with some of those folks as well, and they tell me that it is worth the wait. A lot of them were here very early this morning to make sure that they could cast their ballot. And it is happening right here. Take a look. This is where the process ends. This is the beginning of the line when people are actually able to select their candidate. They place a little sticker that they're given when they register and then they check the box.

Who will take Kansas, Poppy? That is the big question. Now of course both candidates spoke here in Wichita, Kansas, earlier and here is what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are here this morning for something a lot more important than politics. We're here because our country is in crisis. We're here because we love our kids and grandkids and we love freedom and the Constitution, and we want our country back.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're talking about what we've done as a movement. When I saw the thousands of people that I just spoke to in the other hall and more than that, more than that, standing outside trying to get in, this has never happened before. The covers of "TIME" magazine four times over the last few months. It's never -- nobody has seen it before. We have a movement going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: As we take another live look here in Kansas, this is the voting process. People here are allowed to vote for their GOP candidate favorite, and Poppy, let me tell you something, Kansas has a big problem. And that is a very good problem, the GOP tells me, and that is that turnout is phenomenal. And they have contingencies to make sure that they have a ballot for every single person standing in line. If you're standing in line at 2:00 p.m., you're going to be able to vote -- Poppy.

[13:05:08] HARLOW: Democracy at play there live behind you in Wichita, Kansas. Rosa Flores, thank you so much.

Just moments ago, Republican presidential hopeful Marco Rubio wrapped up a question and answer session with our very own Dana Bash at the CPAC conference in Maryland. Before that, he addressed the crowd and he took a shot at Donald Trump without using his name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These young Americans are the most technologically advanced people that have ever lived, on the campaign trail, unless you're under 25, no one knows how to use their camera phone. These young Americans have the chance to fulfill an incredible potential and destiny, but we have to give them a chance, and they won't have a chance if a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders is elected.

And they won't have a chance --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

RUBIO: And they won't have a chance if the conservative movement is hijacked by someone who is not a conservative.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining me now to discuss, Rebecca Berg, national political reporter with Real Clear Politics, and historian and professor of Princeton University, Julian Zelizer.

Thank you both for being here. Well, he made it pretty clear who he was talking about, saying someone who is not a conservative has, quote-unquote, "hijacked the party." He didn't use, Rebecca, Trump's name. In fact he didn't use it once in that entire address until he sat down for Q&A with Dana Bash and was asked about Trump.

What do you make of that -- what seems to be a pretty clear strategy shift?

REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: Right. So, Poppy, Marco Rubio has certainly not shied away from attacking Donald Trump recently. In fact, it has been central to his strategy. He's even made fun of Donald Trump's physical features, some things we would usually expect more of Donald Trump than we would of someone like Marco Rubio.

I think this was a unique audience for Marco Rubio. This is a conference of conservative activists, a conference of political activists who would know who he is talking about, without him having to really say so. And this is an audience that's actually in large part very anti-Donald Trump. So Marco Rubio knew what he was doing in terms of who he was speaking to, but I think in the days to come, especially as we near the Florida primary, which is going to be crucial for Marco Rubio, we're going to see him attacking Donald Trump by name explicitly, and very, very ferociously as well.

HARLOW: I mean, that -- that March 15th Florida vote is just huge for those 99 delegates. It's a winner-take-all state. I mean, so many people look at that and say there is no path ahead for Marco Rubio, arguably if he can't take his home state.

Julian, to you. Looking at what Peggy Noonan wrote in the "Wall Street Journal" in her column yesterday talking about sort of what she sees as the downfall of the Republican Party, she wrote, quote, "The establishment was slow to see what was happening, slow to see Mr. Trump coming, in full denial as he continued to win. Their denial is self-indicting. They couldn't see his appeal because they had no idea how their own people were experiencing America. How their own people were experiencing in America is key.

She's basically saying, Julian, that they were tapped out, they were not tapped into their own voter base. CPAC is that voter base, right? So what do you make of what she said? She has a point.

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORY AND POLITICS PROFESSOR: Well, there's something to that. Obviously they underestimated just how much dislike or disgust there is with much of the party. But it's also forgiving the party too much, you know, the Tea Party has been a phenomenon around since 2008. Party leaders have embraced the Tea Party, they've made it part of the coalition. Mitt Romney wanted Donald Trump's endorsement, at a time he was using birther politics, front and center. So I just don't think they like how far it has gone or more importantly that they've kind of lost control of it.

HARLOW: Rebecca, I want you to weigh in. And I'm not sure I'm going to ask the team if we -- do we have the sound from Sam Clovis, from the Trump campaign, guys? All right. I think we don't have that right now. But basically he went on "NEW DAY," CNN yesterday, Rebecca, said he said that the donor class, his words, the media class, they don't get what's going on in this country, and they're in, quote, "utter denial of it."

As you look at CPAC today, as you look at Marco Rubio speaking, saying Donald Trump is nothing like Ronald Reagan, et cetera, does the -- well, let's listen to it. Let's put it in his own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM CLOVIS, TRUMP NATIONAL CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIR: I don't think that the donor class, the media class or anybody else, I don't think they're getting what's going on in this country or they're in utter denial of it. And I think last night or yesterday when we watched Mitt Romney, we saw a classic case of that. They're in total denial of what's going on in this country. 30 years, the establishment of either party has failed the American people, and the American people are upset about it, and they're tired of being -- patted on the head, told to go stand in a corner, we'll take care of it. [13:10:11] Well, you haven't fixed it. You haven't fixed any of it.

So why should we believe you? We have a guy who shows the leadership and the style that is necessary out there, and people are flocking to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, Rebecca, to his point, do you think that Marco Rubio did the job that Sam Clovis said that, you know, people have to do if they want to compete against Trump? Did he sell them on the fact that he's different? And he talked a lot about being young and newer and what this country would be like for his children. But did he sell himself as any different from the rest of the establishment?

BERG: Well, I think Marco Rubio realizes maybe more than some of these other candidates even that he is not able to sell himself as completely an outsider, as a completely fresh face, although he did get elected as one of the first major Tea Party candidates as an insurgent candidate. And so that's part of who he is as a politician. But he is still a politician and he's still a sitting senator.

And for many of these Trump supporters, for many of the Republican voters who are very angry with what they consider the Republican establishment, anyone who is an elected official counts as what they consider someone, you know, being in the establishment to be. And so that's Marco Rubio's challenge. And he can't completely disown his brand, disown who he is, disown his political office, but he has tried to present himself as a change agent, just as Ted Cruz has, just as Donald Trump has, but Donald Trump has the biggest claim to this just because he hasn't been in politics before, and this is really an anger that has been stewing a long time, Poppy, as Sam Clovis seemed to suggest in that statement.

HARLOW: Julian, I mean, you're a historian, you wrote an entire book on LBJ and all of this. And I just wonder from your perspective of past elections. Has there ever been a time when you have seen such vitriol | the establishment, so much so that Mitt Romney coming out and blasting Donald Trump this week very well some analysts say may help Trump more than anything?

ZELIZER: Look, there are times when the electorate is really angry, in the late 1960s, 1968, Richard Nixon who was what we'd call the establishment played on this very well. People were angry about Vietnam, they were angry about the situation in the cities. Some white Americans were angry about civil rights, and he tapped into this. George Wallace who didn't win the nomination did the same.

We have other moments like this. Patrick Buchanan in 1992 tried to do some of this in the middle of the recession. The difference is this time, you know, the party is not in line with the person who is getting the delegates. And there seems to be very little hope at this point of stopping him.

HARLOW: Rebecca Berg, thank you. Julian Zelizer , thank you. Appreciate the analysis. Coming up, we will take you back live to Flint, Michigan, the city

that has been devastated by lead in their water and the site of the CNN debate tomorrow night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This water is poisoned. If I drink it, I'm going to die, and I don't want to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You're going to meet a family who may have to deal with this for the rest of their life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:16:30] AVERY BOONE, FLINT RESIDENT: Why is it with two Democratic administrations and one Republican administration, almost 30 years, that these urban communities have not had any kind of help, service. You know, we've seen, you know, wars develop under both administrations, you know, things outside, but we don't see what's going on in these -- these communities, rustbelt communities any more, on the both Democrat and Republican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Arlen (sic) Boone, just one of the folks I spoke with on the sidewalk downtown in Flint, Michigan, they have some very pointed questions that they have for the candidates, not just the Dems but Republicans, too. That said we are counting down to our Democratic debate. CNN hosting it. Going to be held right here in Flint tomorrow night and Flint of course, as you must know by now, has become a major issue in this political race, after the city used a tainted water source. It's right behind me. The Flint River.

And it exposed all who drank it to lead. There's been a ripple effects since, there's been all sorts of other pieces in this puzzle but according to "The Detroit Free Press" the bigger ripple effect of the water poisoning could end up costing you, everyone across this nation, and the number is massive. It's an estimated $300 billion. All of that to do with the infrastructure upgrades to lead pipes all across the country. Other cities just like Flint. So if you think that this is just a Flint story, it is not. It is a money story and it is a danger story.

Now look at the pictures on your screen now. This was the image yesterday as the city began to dig up the old lead pipes in some of the neighborhoods where the people are most at risk. Senior citizens, and the pregnant women, and then of course there are the children, specifically children under 6.

Right now I want to take this focus to the children of Flint. Sara Sidner has been working hard to collect these stories and speak directly to these families who are dealing with kids. These kids not only are affected with what they're dealing within their homes right now, but there is a future coming down the pike and it is their future and it is not going away, even if they fix these pipes.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's true and it's bleak. If you talk to the children, we talked to dozens and dozens of people while we've been here. What comes out of their mouth is actually surprising, the things that they say do not sound like an 8-year-old or an 18-year-old, it sounds like a grownup who's been through a whole heck of a lot.

BANFIELD: They know what's going on.

SIDNER: They know what's going on, and they see their town dying and they're really, really affected by it.

BANFIELD: Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOMINIQUE ABSELL, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: First, I want to serve my country.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dominique Absell is only 18 but his lifelong dream for his future is dead.

ABSELL: That was my dream to go to the Army. And now that I can't.

SIDNER: The city he loves is now a source of anxiety, partly because of the water crisis and what has happened to his body since.

ABSELL: I start by getting headaches and passing out, seizures.

SIDNER: His family says doctors can't pinpoint exactly why he began blacking out, sometimes several times a week. It means medically he can't qualify for the Army. He isn't even allowed to drive. His blood test showed very low levels of lead, convincing his mother the contaminants in Flint's water are to blame but there's no medical proof.

(On camera): You said you don't know if it's the water. What do you think it is?

[13:20:05] BEVERLY DAVIS, DOMINIQUE ABSELL'S MOTHER: It has to be the water. He just stopped passing out because I just stopped cooking with the water.

SIDNER (voice-over): Absell is one of the children who will inherit the city of Flint, a city that is now a shell of its former self Realty Track estimates 1 in 14 homes has been abandoned. For three consecutive years ending in 2013, Flint has had the most violent crimes per capita and about 40 percent of the residents live beneath the poverty line.

Then came the decision by government officials to save money by switching the water supply. It ended up creating a major health hazard. The biggest potential harm hitting Flint's future generations. Like 8-year-olds Julian and Nadia, who play like children but speak in extremes about the water.

(On camera): What's wrong with the water?

NADIA BAYLOR, FLINT KID RESIDENT: They have lead in it and they have poison in it because the pipes are dirty.

SIDNER: Do you know what lead does to people who drink lead?

At 8, they notice everything like the number of times it had to prep the sheltering in place in case there is a shooter. And the number of boarded up houses in their neighborhood. If it was up to them their future won't be in Flint.

And what about you? Why would you leave Flint?

BAYLOR: Because this water is poisonous. And if I drink it, I go to die and I don't want to die. Nobody wants to die.

SIDNER (voice-over): From 8 to 18, many of Flint's children and their families worry the town is dying, and a really soft-hearted young man beside himself because he truly believes he has no future at all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: It is just a like a parade of one tragedy after another. And to hear a little girl at 8 years old say nobody wants to die, it's so sobering to realize this problem needs the focus of the country, it needs the focus of the candidates who are coming here and the Republicans as well who have talked about Flint, but maybe haven't visited as much if you ask the people on the street.

I do want to ask you something. We spoke off camera. You mentioned that the class sizes in Flint are going up because schools are closing. And the significance of that for kids who have lead poisoning and the effects of it are massive.

SIDNER: It's huge because one of the things that they deal with is attention deficit disorder. So if you have a classroom of 34 children, and you have two or three or four or five kids who all have this issue and they're jumping up and down, and they're disrupting, then the other children can't learn, and neither can they. And so what's the future of children here if this issue isn't looked at, and then there has to be something in place to help these children get through what has happened to them.

They have no part in it. And that's why the parents here are so incredibly angry. They cannot believe this was done as a cost saving measure at the expense of their health and their children's health.

BANFIELD: If there was one -- no city deserves this, but if there were one city that couldn't take another hit, you know, after the mass closures of all of those the assembly plants, the auto industry just shrinking this city down. I went to Buick City yesterday.

SIDNER: Yes.

BANFIELD: It looks like an air strip. There's nothing left there. And the decay that's going on around it is so sad. But it is having this additional effect, that the water crisis is having this additional effect of flight. People are running. I met a woman yesterday right across the street from Buick City said, I am going back to California -- Colorado. Colorado, she said.

SIDNER: People are leaving this town. It is shrinking, for the first time since the 1920s, in 2014 the numbers of people here dropped below 100,000 for the first time since the 1920s. This town is shrinking. But there are lots of people here who don't want to go. The parents of those children said I love this city, I want this city to do well, but this has just sent us into a panic.

And now our homes are worth nothing. We can't leave. We are stuck here. We can't leave. So what has to happen? There has to be infrastructure change and there has to be attention paid to our kids to make sure that if they have been poisoned with lead, they can still learn.

BANFIELD: Right. And the political gridlock needs to figure itself out because it does take money. They have to just do the work, spend the money. And who is going to OK it and who is going to be OK and on the hook for what it's going to cost. That's the big issue right now that the candidates -- by the way, I don't know how you feel. I did not expect to see the adorable town that I have arrived in. It is lovely. The downtown is lovely. The people are lovely. They're smart, they're astute. There were wonderful cafes.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: It's pretty.

SIDNER: They're really interested in what's going on. It's beautiful, but there are lots of people there talking about politics.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SIDNER: When you go into a Starbucks or you go into a local cafe.

BANFIELD: Number one conversation.

SIDNER: Everybody is talking about the candidates.

BANFIELD: Sara Sidner, doing great work on the ground here. Thank you.

And also our Sara Ganim. They've pretty much taken up residence here. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

And by the way, CNN was really committed to doing this project. We did not come empty handed to Flint, Michigan. We brought a half million bottles of water, handed them out to residents.

[13:25:02] It was the convoy of hope. We had Sara and Martin Savidge, and I know that Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon are going to be taking part in this as well. A lot of our folks, our on airs, our off airs, going door-to-door literally, door-to-door, and dropping off the bottles. Also manning stations where we're handing out bottles of water as well to the people of Flint, Michigan.

Please help out as well. There's our Van Jones doing this. You can do this from the comfort of your own living room. I promise you. Just go to CNN.com/impact. And you will find out a way how you can help the people of Flint, Michigan, your very self. They're your fellow Americans, folks, they need you.

Also don't miss the CNN Democratic debate. Lots of critical issues that will be going on, on the stage here tomorrow night. Flint, Michigan, is the site. 8:00 p.m. Eastern, live. CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. You're looking at live pictures there in Louisville, Kentucky. People casting their ballots in what has been just a huge turnout day in these primaries and caucuses for the Democrats and the Republicans.

Let's go straight to Brian Todd. He is in Kentucky. You had a chance to speak with someone who played a big role in this race for a while. One of the former GOP candidates there. What did he say?

[13:30:00] BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, Rand Paul was responsible for this caucus being moved to this state. He's very pleased with the turnout. What we can tell you is the caucus officials are frankly shocked at the turnout.

We're going to show you some of these pictures here. This is the check-in area. You check in by the way your name appears in alphabetical order here.

Caucus officials here told us they did not expect nearly -- nearly this kind of volume today. The caucus opened about two and a half hours ago. My photojournalist Rafael Rodriguez and I are going to take you through the line here. We have a caucus goer out here.

This is Rick Williams. He's a city councilman here. Every few minutes, Rich is working the line here. Every few minutes, Rick has to tell his colleague Mike Wilson, over here, Mike, choke them. Meaning choke the line off because they don't want too many people over there at one time.

Rafael, we're going to walk this way. Check out this line, Poppy. This is the area where caucus goers can meet with representatives of their candidates to -- different candidates to talk about how the vote is going to go and maybe get their minds changed if they want to be open about how they want to vote. This is the area where they can do that.

I'm going to talk to a caucus goer over here. Her name is Robin Elkin. Excuse us, guys. Thank you very much. We will make our way through the line here. Robin, you've been voting in primaries in Kentucky for 36 years.

First time this state held a GOP caucus.

ROBIN ELKIN, CAUCUS GOER: Right.

TODD: How do you think it is going?

ELKIN: I think there's a really good turnout. I was really hoping there would be some people to speak on behalf of the -- you know, the candidates.

TODD: More like speeches like they did in Iowa.

ELKIN: Correct. Yes.

TODD: And what -- how disappointed are you that you didn't really hear that?

ELKIN: I'm not really disappointed. I am really enthusiastic about the turnout. And of course you see I'm a Marco Rubio supporter.

TODD: OK. I will ask you a little bit about that. Why Marco Rubio? Do you think -- and do you think he can maybe stem Donald Trump's momentum here?

ELKIN: I think he can. He is strong on defense, he can bring the Republican Party together. But what's more important, he can bring the nation together. I think this president has done all he can to tear it apart. And I think that Mr. Rubio can pull it together.

TODD: All right. Well, Robin, thank you very much for talking to us. We really appreciate it.

We're going to just kind of pivot the camera down here.

Poppy, check out this line. Look at this. At any one time in this hallway, they've had at least 250 people, it goes way down there and then outside. Just a massive turnout. 30,000 registered Republican GOP voters in this county in Warren County. One of the caucus chiefs here told me they expected maybe a turnout of 2,000 people. It's way exceeded that, Poppy, a real, real energy here.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Brian Todd, thank you so much, for us there in Bowling Green.

And when it comes to the race on the Republican side, the magic number for Donald Trump if he is to continue on this path is 901. That is how many delegates he needs to clinch the GOP presidential nomination. So far he has 336.

One state that can help him get there is Florida. Florida and its 99 delegates. Remember, Florida is a winner-take-all state. All of these primaries and caucuses up until now in this race in the GOP have been proportional, meaning you don't necessarily get all of the delegates. Well, in Florida you do. Marco Rubio certainly doesn't want to see Trump take his home state. He wants to take those 99 delegates home.

Let's go live to our Chris Frates. He's in Orlando, where just a few hours Trump -- just a few hours until Trump will hold a rally there. Talk to me about the strategy here in terms of Rubio trying to secure Florida, Trump going hard after it, and the latest polling from Quinnipiac showing Trump ahead of Marco Rubio in Florida.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Poppy. Well, we're already seeing Donald Trump starts to shift a little bit on the issues, things like immigration and torture. In fact reversing himself on torture completely yesterday. You might remember Donald Trump saying that he wants to go harder on water boarding, he wants to kill the family members of terrorists, that of course against international law. He faced wide condemnation from generals, from lawmakers and others. Yesterday he is saying that he does recognize international law and he would follow it as president.

Also softening on immigration a little bit, saying that everything is negotiable, including the height of the wall. That's a little different than the hard line he had taken to start this campaign that really jumped him in the polls. And all this policy shifting coming ahead of the big enchilada here in Florida, March 15th. As you pointed out, about 100 delegates on the line, winner-take-all. One of the first winner-take-all contests, and he is spending money here. $2 million in advertising to try to take out Marco Rubio.

But Marco Rubio getting a big endorsement from the "Orlando Sentinel" yesterday. That happened and that's big here in central Florida. The I-4 voter rich corridor. The "Sentinel" saying that unlike Trump, Rubio has the knowledge and the judgment to be president. Also saying that Trump's policy positions are a little thin, that they had trouble with what they called his trouble telling the truth. And so you have a -- you know, a big endorsement for Marco Rubio.

But the polls here, Poppy, Donald Trump is still very much ahead with 44 percent. Marco Rubio down at 28 percent. Marco Rubio, of course, the last hope for the Republican establishment who wants to stop Donald Trump. In fact we heard from Mitt Romney earlier this week saying that Donald Trump not fit to be president. Take a listen to what Donald Trump had to say about Mitt Romney this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:35:06] TRUMP: They made a tremendous mistake when you chose Mitt Romney four years ago. He was a disaster as a candidate. No energy, no life. No nothing. He's just a stiff. OK. Just a stiff guy. He was. He was a loser. And then he comes out.

You know, if he would have devoted the same energy four years ago to running for president, him and his third rate campaign manager, I see him on television all the time, where was he four years ago when Obama was doing Jay Leno, when Obama was doing David Letterman, and Romney was looking for zone change to get a nine car garage built. OK. Where was this guy? So look, it's the establishment, the establishment is against us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So there you had Donald Trump talking about the establishment against him. In fact, Poppy, the crowd getting warmed up here. And in response to this #neverTrump telling everybody here at this event to hash tag stoptheestablishment, so Trump supporters pushing back against the establishment, what they see as unfair treatment here.

But this is a crucial battleground state for Marco Rubio. He needs to win -- to move on and to try to derail this Trump train. Donald Trump, if he takes Florida and Ohio, which are both winner-take-all, it will be very hard to stop him, Poppy.

HARLOW: And we see 25,000 expected to be there in just a few hours for this Trump rally. We'll be watching. Chris Frates live for us in Orlando. Thank you.

Coming up next, we will take you back to Flint, Michigan, live Michigan votes on Tuesday and the state holds a lot of delegates that the candidates want. We'll get a preview of what we might see Tuesday night. And of course, Flint, the home of the next CNN debate, that is tomorrow night. The Democratic debate there in Flint. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Flint, Michigan, made big headlines when the movie "Roger and Me" featured the tens of thousands of workers who lost their jobs when the GM plants all were shuttered.

[13:40:04] Like this place over here. This is Buick City. Well, at least this was Buick City. It's just acres and acres of empty field now. The buildings came down, and so did the neighborhood.

Take a look across the street. This is what's left, this is what happened. And for the lucky ones whose houses weren't burned out or broken down or carcassed, they now have the crisis of dealing with the reality that their water isn't safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Their water isn't safe. Take a look at that. The Flint River. That river is so polluted it corroded the pipes. And even though that water doesn't come from the Flint River any more, the pipes are a mess, the lead is leeching. The water is not safe.

Welcome back to our special live coverage here from Flint, Michigan. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Good to have you with us.

Former presidential nominee Mitt Romney says that despite his attack on Donald Trump this week, he has no plans, read it, no plans to get into this presidential race. Mitt Romney sat down with CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, and did a one-on-one interview with her, and he had plenty to say about Donald Trump and why he went after him.

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MITT ROMNEY, 2012 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He has tapped into an anger which is very much understood. What he's done with that anger, however, is not to build it and to resolve and high purpose, but instead to take it down a very dark alley. And that I think is unfortunate. And at this stage we say all right, he could easily become the nominee, probably most likely to be the Republican nominee at this point, but I think there's a better choice out there.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: So this contested convention, is this a scenario that you're actively looking at it?

ROMNEY: I think it's a realistic scenario. A lot of people have thought that for some time.

BORGER: Likely? Likely?

ROMNEY: You know, I think it's more likely than not that we will have a nominee before the convention that's Donald Trump. I think he has a much stronger shot of getting the 1237 delegates than not.

BORGER: If there is a contested convention, would you allow your name to be put into nomination?

ROMNEY: That's not going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, you might not then see Mitt Romney's name at the convention, but you're about to see a Romney because joining me now is Ronna Romney McDaniel. She's a conservative political commentator, a radio talk show host, and we should mention she's the niece of 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney.

Ronna, thank you so much for being with me today, and especially in this particular setting. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the story that's evolving about the Republican race, the candidates are not coming here tomorrow, it's the Democrats that are coming here tomorrow to do the debate, but there's been plenty on television today especially at CPAC. And one of the things that we saw at CPAC was a charge toward conservatism. Not unusual. We saw that at CPAC.

That's not something they say Donald Trump represents. And yet, Donald Trump is crushing everyone in the Republican Party so far. In this race so far. What's happening? Are there more conservatives in the Republican Party or are there more re-Trump-licans in the conservative party?

RONNA ROMNEY MCDANIEL, CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm actually the chair of the Michigan Republican Party here in Michigan as well, and I traveled the state for a year. I spent time with each candidate. And there is a lot of enthusiasm and concern. And the -- the voters are so engaged in this race. My job as chair is to bring everybody together after the dust settles because people are concerned about who's going to take the White House. They don't want to see a third Obama term in Hillary Clinton. And so they're passionate behind these candidates and it's contentious and they're angry. We are going to have to come together if we're going to win the White House.

BANFIELD: Yes, but how many more outnumber the other? The re-Trump- licans or the Republicans who call themselves conservatives? Because the re-Trump-licans will say, conservative, he says what he means, he speaks for us, he lets us say things we haven't been able to say before.

And let's get those pictures up of that rally that we just saw in the last block, if I can. 25,000 people have come together in Orlando for a Trump rally. They're just waiting for him to show up. And by the way, this is not unusual. There are tens of thousands of people who show up all the time who wait in anterior rooms with speakers to listen to anything he has to say.

This is the story of 2016. Who's more numerous, though? True conservatives who want to vote Republican or re-Trump-licans who do not care about those conservative issues?

MCDANIEL: I don't think we know yet. I think it's all playing out. We'll see it in Michigan on March 8th. But have family members who've been lifelong Republicans who are voting for Trump and I have family members who are lifelong Republicans who are voting for Cruz. This is an anomaly year. I don't think we can say yet where people are and who outnumbers the other. We'll find that out at our convention.

BANFIELD: And Michigan is intriguing.

[13:45:01] I'm just looking at some of the numbers here. The "Detroit Free Press" with some epic MRA ran a poll and it had -- look, this is February 27th to 29th, this is the most recent I have, and things have really changed dramatically since then, since the debate. Trump 29, Cruz at 19, Rubio at 18, Kasich at 8. He has a resounding 10-point lead over the next candidate. Pretty much appears that he's got Michigan. Do you agree?

MCDANIEL: I don't because --

BANFIELD: You don't?

MCDANIEL: Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, when they came into Michigan in 2012, Santorum was leading by nine points, and Mitt Romney ended up winning Michigan by about three points.

BANFIELD: So you're one of those states where no one should believe the polls. That anything can happen.

MCDANIEL: Yes. You've got to work Michigan. Michiganders are paying attention.

BANFIELD: Yes.

MCDANIEL: We've had a tough time. Our unemployment five years ago was topping at 15 percent.

BANFIELD: And Trump was here yesterday. Speaking of working Michigan. MCDANIEL: He is spending time here.

BANFIELD: Yes.

MCDANIEL: And these candidates, we've had over 30 visits from Republican candidates in Michigan since I have been chair for a year.

BANFIELD: What about Flint? Look, this is a place that, I said it earlier, for better or worse, is getting a lot of attention because of the election cycle. That's great for the residents of Flint.. Others are complaining that this is optics only for a backdrop. But many of the people I spoke to, and I have been showing the clips of me interviewing people on the Flint streets, many of them said the Republicans haven't come.

I mean, the Democrats have been here and they've done more to make us feel as though they're listening. And the Republicans haven't as much.

MCDANIEL: Well, the Republicans in Michigan have certainly been here. Our lieutenant governor is practically living in Flint.

BANFIELD: I'm talking about the presidential candidates only.

MCDANIEL: Well, the presidential candidates have been all across the state, and they've talked about Flint. I think they're recognizing that they want to see the state take care of it, they want to see where the EPA comes in, the federal government. There's not much they can do from a solution standpoint.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you about EPA? Because one of the things that many, and I think it was just, if I remember correctly, Rubio this morning, it was certainly Trump on the debate stage on FOX theater on Thursday night, I want to abolish the EPA. How does that sound to the ears of a Flint resident who has this going on behind them and has taps that they can't even trust?

MCDANIEL: Well, I do think the investigation is going on right now as to what happened exactly in Flint because we need to make sure this never happens again.

BANFIELD: How does it sound to hear those words from a Republican candidate, I want to abolish the EPA, in a place where nothing could be more important?

MCDANIEL: There are some questions that do need to be asked by the EPA. Susan Headman who's resigned from Region 5, they had real-time results of the lead testing in Flint.

BANFIELD: Would Flint residents be happy to have the EPA abolished?

MCDANIEL: I think Flint residents are going to be happy when everyone is coming together to help them solve this problem.

BANFIELD: I don't know if I got an answer from you on that. MCDANIEL: I'm just going to say, that's what it needs to happen. And

we need to investigate where the EPA's role is on this? Are they a fail-safe? If they're a fail-safe at what they're supposed to do is protect the water, where were they? Where were they? What is their role?

BANFIELD: Good point.

MCDANIEL: We're giving them $8 billion, they have 15,000 employee. Where were they? They're the buck stop. When the state was failing, when the DEQ was giving bad data to our governor, they were getting real-time data. They had a whistleblower that came and said Flint is in trouble. Where was the EPA in all of this. Everybody is pointing fingers, is not helping anybody. We need everyone, Republicans, Democrats, around the table, helping to solve problems, because this is a community still in need.

Our governor is doing that. We've done it at a bipartisan level in our legislature and we're going to continue to do that in Michigan.

BANFIELD: So appreciate you coming out especially with this backdrop. I mean, this is such a difficult story to cover.

MCDANIEL: It is.

BANFIELD: So uncomfortable, and yet it requires people coming together just like you said.

Ronna Romney McDaniel, I didn't even get a chance to ask you about your uncle for heaven's sake. This is such a big conversation. Not a lot of time, though. Thank you.

MCDANIEL: Thanks for having me.

BANFIELD: I appreciate it. It's been nice to be here, too. Do appreciate that.

MCDANIEL: Thank you for being here.

BANFIELD: Don't miss that Democratic debate, folks, that we're hosting at the CNN debate tomorrow night. Flint, Michigan, is our location. 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Live on CNN.

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[13:52:28] HARLOW: Well, 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney is back in the presidential race sort of. This week he certainly made his voice heard denouncing Donald Trump calling him a phony and a fraud.

This is not the first time Romney has take an stab at a Republican frontrunner. His father, former Michigan Governor George Romney blasted the Republican nominee in 1964, Barry Goldwater, but Princeton historian Julian Zelizer writes in a fascinating new CNN.com op-ed that the approach of the two Romneys is vastly different. One may be more effective than the other. Julian joins me now. Thank you for writing this, thank you for being

here.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

HARLOW: It is a fascinating history lesson I mean for a lot of us. You talk about how then Governor George Romney fought against Goldwater and in 1964, largely about civil rights, and he called the nomination of Goldwater the suicidal destruction of the Republican Party. His fight, you argue, was on principles. And you say Mitt Romney's this week is very different.

ZELIZER: Yes. Back in 1964, Republicans were really pretty divided. There were moderate Republicans like him who were a big force in the party and he thought Goldwater was too conservative and especially he had voted against civil rights. He thought the party can't put forward someone like that. So he really didn't like Goldwater, wouldn't even appear with him at campaigns.

HARLOW: So how -- what's more effective? That or you say what Mitt Romney is doing now is largely about personality and that attack maybe not so effective?

ZELIZER: Well, part of it was about personality. I mean, he almost engaged in a Trump-like attack on Donald Trump, making it personal, but the other problem is, he is part of a party that has embraced a lot of what Donald Trump has been doing. And he himself sought his endorsement a few years ago.

HARLOW: Absolutely. And that's what I wanted to talk about. The fact that he saw it and he got -- Mitt Romney got Donald Trump's endorsement back in 2012. This is even as Donald Trump was the one really leading the birther movement against President Obama. Still Romney sought him out. So Gloria Borger asks Romney about that in their interview yesterday and here's what he said.

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ROMNEY: I think that's very different than calling Mexicans rapists, than saying that Muslims are not going to be allowed into the country as immigrants, that mocking a disabled reporter, that going after women and saying, oh, she asked tough questions because she was in her menstrual cycle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He's saying they're different.

ZELIZER: Well, they're all bad. And so it's a little hard to distinguish for many people what he said about President Obama's birthplace to those kinds of comments.

[13:55:08] They're all part of a package. So it's hard for him to disassociate himself.

HARLOW: Right. ZELIZER: Even though he wants to do that.

HARLOW: You argue that this attack by Mitt Romney on Trump could backfire, and it could help Trump. How big a believer are you in that? That this is just going to backfire?

ZELIZER: I think it will. I mean, that's another difference. When his father did it, there was this genuine split.

HARLOW: Right.

ZELIZER: And it was unresolved. And in some ways his father was on the winning end of that point. Today Mitt Romney is part of a different split. The Washington establishment versus whatever you want to call the Trump populism, and he represents exactly what Trump is attacking. So to have him as your enemy, it couldn't offer Trump a better target.

HARLOW: So in the last 20 seconds that I have, what could Romney learn from this father to be more effective in this fight?

ZELIZER: Well, I think ultimately this revolves around the grassroots. And so he has to separate himself more like his father did, but also the electorate will be the solution, not Mitt Romney.

HARLOW: All right. Julian, thank you. Fascinating op-ed. Go to CNN.com to read it there.

We're going to take a quick break, we'll be right back.

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HARLOW: Top of the hour. 2:00 p.m. Eastern and it is down to the wire in five states today. Lines are out the door. Crowds are filling caucus locations as voters make their final choice on this Super Saturday.