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Trump, Cruz Trying To Shove Rubio Out Of The Race; New Poll: Trump Leads In Florida Talking Trump; Establishment War On Trump Making An Impact; Clinton, Sanders Spar In Michigan; Trump On Torture; UK Police Preparing For "Enormous" Potential ISIS Attacks; Remembering Nancy Reagan; Former Press Secretary: "She Was A Good Boss". Aired 9-10p ET

Aired March 7, 2016 - 21:00   ET



[21:00:06] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And welcome back. We're just hours until another big day in a primary race that appears to be tightening in both parties. We've just seen a weekend of split decisions at the polls a contentious CNN debate in Flint and a full day of developments including Donald Trump and Ted Cruz trying to shut Marco Rubio out of the race.

And over on the Democratic side, some damage control with African- American voters by Bernie Sanders. There's that, Michael Bloomberg saying he'll stay out of the race and more. A lots to talk about.

Jason Carroll starts us off with the Republicans tonight.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who is going to win North Carolina?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump's confidence on full display today campaigning in North Carolina who is primary is still more than a week away. The GOP frontrunner running strong in tomorrow's big Super Tuesday prize, in Michigan.

TRUMP: I've been to Michigan a lot and I think we're going to do well there.

CARROLL: A new Monmouth University poll released today shows Trump at 36 percent in the wolverine state followed by Cruz at 23 percent. After big weekend wins, Trump and Cruz say the GOP primary fight is now turning into a two-man race.

TRUMP: Marco Rubio had a very, very bad night. And personally I'd call for him to drop out of the race. I think it's time now that he drop out of the race. I would love to take on Ted one-on-one. That would be so much fun.

TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We started with 17 candidates. As the field narrows more and more and more, it we're getting closer to a two-man race. I believe this race will end up with a two-man race between me and Donald Trump.

CARROLL: Cruz picking up some momentum after scoring wins this weekend in Kansas and Maine, helping close Trump's advantage in the delegate count. And today, he's making the case to Republican voters that they should line up behind him as the Trump alternative.

CRUZ: In this race, it is clear. A vote for any other candidate, a vote for Marco Rubio or a vote for John Kasich is a vote for Donald Trump, because there's only one candidate who has repeatedly beaten Donald Trump. There's only one candidate who can and will beat Donald Trump.

CARROLL: Trump meanwhile edging out Cruz in Kentucky and Louisiana. Rubio earned his second victory of the primary season on Sunday in Puerto Rico coming on the heels of disappointing results in Saturday's contest. And tonight, Rubio responding to Trump and Cruz's calls that he should exit the race.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R-FL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course Donald Trump is calling on people to drop out. But, you know, I think that Donald suffered some real damage over the last week. People are starting to learn that Donald Trump the character and Donald Trump the person are not the same thing. And what you get as president is not the character you see on television. It's the person.

CARROLL: Rubio's effort to derail the frontrunner getting a boost from Super PACs opposed to Trump. The latest highlighting Trump's sometimes course language on the campaign trail.

TRUMP: He gets the nomination, they're going to sue his (inaudible). She said he's a (inaudible). I don't give a (inaudible). We'll beat the (inaudible) of them.


COOPER: Jason Carroll joins us now. What's the message from the candidates as they head to tomorrow's primaries?

CARROLL: Well, Anderson, look. They're not expecting any wins tomorrow. Not in Michigan or Mississippi or Idaho or Hawaii. Not expecting any wins.

All of their focus now and their message is focus here on the state of Florida. This is as you know, must-win state for Rubio if he has any hope of moving forward. What's interesting, Anderson is they're billing themselves as the underdog here in his home state. Which says something in itself when you consider Ted Cruz certainly was not the underdog in his home state of Texas, a state that as you know he won.

COOPER: Jason Carroll, Jason thanks very much.

Back with our panel. John King, just in terms of the delegate count and moving forward, I mean, what is the path for a Cruz, for a Rubio? I mean is there any path other than at the convention? JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS HOST: We can for they ...


KING: We can literally talk for days about this.

COOPER: And we already have, but it makes my head explode every time we do.

KING: This -- there are thousands of scenarios. There are literally thousands of scenarios. So you take it one at a time. If Donald Trump wins has a good day tomorrow that's maybe including Mississippi and Michigan, we'll see in Idaho and Hawaii.

But the big prize is Mississippi and Michigan. But he can say he's back on track and he starts to stretch out the delegate lead again. Then you get to winner take all.

Once we get to March 15th, a week from Tuesday then the math it's very different. If Donald Trump wins Florida that's 199 delegates stretches that lead. If Rubio wins Florida, you know, Trump is not getting 200 and Rubio can argue he's back in the hunt. And what happens in Ohio, what happens in Illinois?

So we're going to have to go state by state through this map. If Trump is winning half of the delegates, Trump is going to be the Republican nominee. So at some point you have the first stop.

ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Oh, John, when you say that. Please say it slowly it takes a little time.

KING: Take the first stop and not just by winning one or two states. There has to be a day where Trump looks up. And you know, there are six after five or six contests whether one day over period days after five or six contests, would some say, oh Trump pulling one-one. You know, what's happening here?

And then -- then, sure, if you get -- whether it's Cruz versus Trump or Rubio versus Trump or Kasich versus Trump. Don't count Kasich out a lot of people say, oh King gone lunatic.

[21:05:06] You know, if he wins Ohio, we'll see what's happens. Then do you have a one-on-one race in Pennsylvania, do you have one-on-one race in New York, do you have one-on-one race we got way out to California, Connecticut ...

COOPER: It doesn't one-on-one race help Cruz? I mean, Cruz seems to won a one-on one-race?

KING: Look, you can argue -- you can say in New York State, in Maryland. You know, you're not going to beat Donald Trump, but we don't know what the psychology of the race will be by then.

LIZZA: I think a one on one race helps any of the candidates who are not Trump once you get into the winner take all state.

KING: It's your bet.

LIZZA: We have able to chance, but it's your best chance.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And I think as we head into all these contests, anybody who can beat Trump in any of these contest people are going to start looking at. Because the goal is for these guys to beat Trump somewhere.

Once you beat Trump somewhere, people are going to start saying, wait a minute. Are late deciders really now going away from Donald Trump? What is -- what is going on with the Republican base in this race? Are they starting to have doubts about Donald Trump?

And so, a whole kind of psychology takes over because nothing succeeds like success. Once somebody else starts to have maybe not only one but maybe two successes against Donald Trump, then things flip pretty quickly. You just have to see. Right now Trump is overwhelmingly the favorite.

KING: Right, without a doubt.

BORGER: Without a doubt.

COOPER: I mean, do any of you have any -- on our commentator side, do any of you have any doubt that Donald Trump will be the nominee?



MADDEN: ... yeah I think ...

BRAZILE: I really do too.

MADDEN: If Marco Rubio continues -- if he wins Florida and we have a race that's eventually becomes a race for the contested convention, then there's a possibility where you get to a contested convention that forces against Donald Trump which at that point could be essentially be two-thirds of the entire delegates that are selected and starts to form a unity ticket. There's a chance that Donald Trump ...


MADDEN: The backlash ...

COOPER: I mean among ...


COOPER: ... Trump supporters be so overwhelming now?

MADDEN: Here's the one thing I would just say and I'll turn over to Ana because she can probably describe it better which is, that I, as I find it harder and harder to see a scenario where there's not chaos.


COOPER: Let me go to Jeffrey Lord, he's a Trump supporter. Jeffrey, if there was this thing at this at the convention and there was some sort of a deal made that Trump was shut out, what would that even look like?

I mean, his supporters would understandably be furious at the GOP.

JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yeah, they would. They would, I mean, It reminds me of -- not that I was there or any of us were there. But the 1912 convention when Teddy Roosevelt and his supporters felt cheated of the nomination by William Howard Taft that there was theft and charges of stealing the nomination and they literally walked out, hired a hall and held their own convention. Started a third party and they often running and ruined Taft's chances and the Republican Party's chances and, you know, that was it.

I mean, that's the last thing that they want to see happen.

MADDEN: Can I just clarify that thought just real quick?


MADDEN: He wouldn't be cheated out of anything. These are delegates that are elect ...

LORD: But not saying his supporters would certainly be.


MADDEN: The perception is one thing, but he wouldn't be cheated out of anything.

COOPER: Right, he do have delegates.

MADDEN: This would be over 2,000 delegates who of the large majority of them at that point if Donald Trump were to get to the nominate -- we're to get to the convention without -- with maybe say something like 900.

If you were continue at the rate that he's at right now, he would probably only have around 900 that would mean about two-thirds of those delegates would not be Trump nominee. So, it would be the majority voice inside the convention selecting somebody other than Donald Trump. And following the rules that were laid out.


NAVARRO: A broker convention would be the equivalent of the political hunger games. And I am not exaggerating. Take a look at what's going on at Donald Trump events, take a look at what happens to protesters. They get physically assaulted.

If you think people aren't going to get clubbed like baby seals on the floor of the convention, you know, then you haven't been watching what's been happening. LIZZA: But there are rules governing this process as Kevin is pointing out and look if you don't show up ...

NAVARRO: Only the 1st round., only the 1st round.

LIZZA: ... at the convention, where the majority ...

NAVARRO: Of the ballot.

LIZZA: ... you know, it can dabs (ph) can do anything on the second round and then it's was ball game.

BORGER: But the rules are rewritten at every convention. Last convention the rules where that you had to have win a majority of eight states in order to be nominated from the floor because they wanted to make sure Rand Paul wasn't nominated from the floor.

Now, at the beginning of every convention you rewrite the rules. Donald Trump is not represented in that rules committee and there will be held to pay ...

MADDEN: He also hasn't yet won a majority and he also, yet, has not won on majority in eight states. So he wouldn't even qualify under old or new rules.

LORD: You know, why the other thing we've had discussed in the past. And one of the other things we've discussed in the past is this. Almost all those delegates you can bet are going to have the cell phones here.

So any hanky-panky that's going to go on, you know, somebody is going to catch that on camera and send to CNN and YouTube and the world in 0.2 seconds.

LIZZA: But what's the hanky-panky ...

MADDEN: It's not hanky-panky if they are following the rules?

KING: There will be a huge burden on the party. If Trump comes in with a significant lead but short of what he needs to clinch. And there's going to be an open convention.

[21:10:05] And there's a possibility the guy with the most delegates is going to lose there will be a huge burden on the party to be transparent, incredibly transparent ...

LORD: That's right.

KING: ... more than transparent, more than transparent. If the party meets that test and you keep having votes and then Trump loses, I agree with Ana, they better bolt the chairs to the floor. But at least then you'll have votes and votes and votes.

NAVARRO: And then the problem that you're going to have a lot of disenfranchised voters who you need in November in order to win (inaudible). COOPER: That's it for now. Plenty more head tonight. The heat of the race is generating, including reaction on conservative talk radio to the "Stop Trump" effort. It's a major topic and what listeners have to say could say a lot about where the race goes from here.

Later, the Michigan up -- with Michigan up for grabs, Democrats are trading punches. The latest on that also, when we continue.


COOPER: If you want to listen to important Republican voices in the Republican primary race, it helps to listen to conservative talk radio. There's no better place to get in touch with the GOP base than talk radio. Callers have plenty to say especially about efforts to stop Donald Trump.

More on that tonight, from our own Randi Kaye.


DANA LOESCH, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: We have on the line, we got Jim. Jim, welcome to the program. Thanks for calling in today.

JIM, CALLER: Hi, Dana.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At Mercury Studios just outside Dallas, Texas, Conservative Radio Host Dana Lash is getting an earful from a caller named Jim.

JIM: Mitt Romney's speech made me lean (ph) a lot more towards Trump that way as far as how I feel about him overall because the one thing that I'm tired of is the establishment.

[21:15:01] Is it better to have someone who, I mean do you hate more, the Democrats or the GOP establishment?

KAYE: Ever since 2012, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney came out urging voters to choose anyone but Donald Trump, voters have been turning to conservative radio shows to voice their anger and frustration.


JAMES: Romney is a two-time, you know, race loser. So why are you even in place to, or you know, in the position to say anything against somebody who is doing well and been leading nearly the whole race.

LOESCH: What do you make of people like the Romney's and all of those individuals speaking out?

JAMES: Oh, Mitt Romney is trying to come to the rescue of the establishment and, you know, there's billions of dollars in unsold power that's at stake here with an upset of the establishment.

KAYE: John McCain who was on the Republican ticket in '08 echoed Romney's concerns, urging voters to think long and hard before choosing Trump.

Would you say it comes off as sort of patronizing to the voter?

LOESCH: I do think so. I think it's patronizing. I think Mitt Romney criticizing anybody at this point is patronizing. I think McCain criticizing anyone is patronizing. You know, we're not children I think we're fully capable of making our own decisions.

KAYE: And for many listeners, that decision is Trump.

DAVE, CALLER: I think the Republican National Committee is against Donald Trump because he is doing so successful.

KAYE: Not every caller is a Trump fan, though.

DAVE: He is the Republican version of Barack Obama's hope and change. Instead of hope and change, he's offering, I'll make America great again and he sweeping a bunch of dumb voters who are going to be swept be swept up in emotion and vote on a jingle. But this election has come down to a referendum on the stupidity of most of the American voters.

KAYE: One listener even told Dana they believe Romney is trying to wiggle his way into the Oval Office.

LOESCH: Do you think that Romney is trying to clear a path for Rubio?

LEE, CALLER: No, I think his clear -- I was watching into those interview to give over the past week or so. Romney want another shot at that and then it's more than of 10 percent I have ever seen a politician do.

KAYE: Sound like perhaps the establishment has some explaining to do.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Irving, Texas.


COOPER: Sorry I will not talking to your calls tonight, so I can't say rapid city, South Dakota, Hello, I am, however, a long time -- let's go to our panel and they are joining me now.

MADDEN: Sorry about that.

COOPER: So at do, you know is, I mean, do you think the impact Mitt Romney had in John McCain coming forward making these comments. I mean, do you think it actually helped Trump or did it open up the gates for others to start turning again?

KING: Look, the idea that the establishment is against Trump helps Trump globally. Are there smaller pockets in places is there, does it help raise money for the anti-Trump effort for example, Mitt Romney coming out giving his speech.

Well some donors who are saying oh, this is probably overact, Trump is going to win on, maybe I better Trump and make friends. Have them someone and say I'm going to check and help the anti-Trump effort week, maybe.

With voters at large, I don't think there's any question that, you know, when you talk, the interesting thing about this campaign is when you travel and talk to voters, they don't like President Obama, you know, that Republican voters want to kick, they think they're kicking now the White House, seamlessly of anyway, and they're energize by that, because they think that for eight years we're getting rid of ObamaCare.

COOPER: Yeah, you're talking about Republicans so that's was among Democrats is very probably.

KING: Yeah, among Democrats, and the president (ph), I mean Republican voters so there part of their energy is we want the White House back. But when then they -- you'd ask them about Mitch McConnell, ask them about Paul Ryan, as Mitt Romney. They dislike their own establishment as much, if not more, than President Obama.

So when the establishment tries to get in front of Trump with his voters, it rallies them. But the talk radio conversation is fascinating, because a lot of those guys don't trust Trump either, they don't think his a true conservative.

COOPER: Right.

KING: But they don't trust, Romney , they don't like McConnell, they're not sure about Ryan that -- so its -- you have this fascinating stomp right now of, you know, nobody likes the establish but some of them also don't like Trump and they don't know what to do.

NAVARRO: But I mean, it's also telling the establishment doesn't like anybody either, right, I mean the idea of having to choose between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump is so painful for so many people and I think one of the things that the Mitt Romney speech did was say to folks in the establishment, "Look, you know what, Ted Cruz is better than Donald Trump" I think, you know, it's did, we're beginning to come to grips.

COOPER: And, you know, and even though Romney didn't say that, I mean Lindsey Graham has said ...

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: ... I mean and then apparently there's report out that Cruz put in a call to Graham.

BORGER: To Graham, I mean, and it was surprising that Lindsey Graham actually said that, that he could live with Cruz. What was more surprising to me was when I talked to Romney last week. I said, "You know, you are a member of the establishment". He said I'm not the establishment. He said, I'm a conservative.

LORD: You know, Anderson?

BORGER: I'm not the establishment.

COOPER: Jeffrey? LORD: Anderson, you know it just strikes me. If people in the establishment had been listening to Rush Limbaugh for the last X number of years, they would have seen this coming. But they don't see this coming because, you know, they were too busy writing articles for, you know, "Newsweek", you know that, you know, enough what David Frum wrote there, former Bush aide, that enough and stop Rush Limbaugh, don't listen and all these sort of stuff.

[21:20:06] I mean all they had to do was listen to Rush's show, listen to what his callers are saying to him and they would have understood perfectly well, long before Donald Trump that they had a real problem on their hands. But they didn't pay attention.

BRAZILE: The entire force of the Republican Party is marshal behind this theory that they can defeat their frontrunner. I mean that, as a Democrat, I am just, you know, shocked by what's happening.

I mean, Republican part -- the autopsy report revealed that there are big deficiencies. And yet they did nothing to pamper that. So, this is ...

MADDEN: Well, one of the deficiencies was that we couldn't reach out to a wider array of voters, particularly, minority voters. And here, we have a, you know, the frontrunner going against that lesson.

NAVARRO: Absolutely.

MADDEN: With this use of rhetoric.


MADDEN: That's why there's the marshaling.

NAVARRO: At the same time, embrace yourself, because I'm about to say something relatively positive about Donald Trump.

At the same time, he has brought in an entirely new universe of voters that hadn't been participating.

COOPER: Although, not quite the -- I mean ...

LORD: I think I got to pass out.

COOPER: ... he got this from a millions and millions of voters. So, you're going to pass out that, because she said ...


LORD: Yes.

NAVARRO: It's a momentary, you think it will pass.

COOPER: But, is it clear ...

LORD: Yes, OK. COOPER: ... if Trump, if there was this deal at a convention, if that actually happened, where those Trump voters would go? I mean, they're could be so annoyed at a deal that they would stay home.

BORGER: They could stay home. The other part of that is so, that they would be so energized if Hillary Clinton were the nominee that they might just go out and vote anyway, because they dislike Hillary Clinton so much. So, you really can't say.

But I do think there would be even more of a revolt than you see right now. You look at all the exit polls ...

COOPER: Just quickly, John and then we got to go.

BORGER: ... he's betrayed voters.

KING: We keep talking as if, you know, Cruz and Rubio are going to get there. Cruz -- let's say Cruz is in second place, Rubio is in third place or Kasich somewhere. And they're going to negotiate a deal. Don't count out Donald Trump. He gets to negotiate, too, men.

BORGER: Exactly.

COOPER: And he does have some experience with negotiating.

KING: He gets ...


KING: ... Kasich and he gets to go to each other guys if they have enough deal. He can try to kind of deal, too. Don't count him.

COOPER: All right. We're going to have more with our panel coming up.

The Democrats, we're going to talking about then on Hillary Clinton telling voters in Detroit, the sooner she's the nominee, the sooner she can focus on the Republican.

We'll see how that play that after she and Bernie Sanders is part about the auto industry guns and Wall Street.

The latest from the campaign trail on the Democratic side, next.


[21:26:18] COOPER: Welcome back. Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders both campaigning in Michigan tonight just hours before the primary there and one day after a debate in Flint that had them sparring over guns, cars and money, and events in Detroit, as a short time ago, Clinton said she has her work cut out for her, and she's ready.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The sooner I could become your nominee, the more I could begin to turn our attention to the Republicans.


COOPER: CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny has more and all the verbal jousting at last night's debate and on the campaign trail today.


JEFF ZELENY, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders watching a new fight over an old issue that came roaring back on the eve of the Michigan primary.

CLINTON: I voted for the auto bailout. He voted against it, because it also helped some other groups like the banks. But, you know, sometimes you don't get perfect choices in life for politics.

ZELENY: The rescue of the auto industry is suddenly front and center in the Democratic primary fight. Sanders says Clinton is intentionally mischaracterizing his 2009 position.

BERNIE SANDERS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There was one vote in the United States Senate on whether or not to support the auto bailout and protect jobs in Michigan and around this country. I voted for the auto bailout.

ZELENY: Though Sanders supported the auto bailout, he did vote against it when it was part of a broader bill to bail out banks, a point Clinton sees on during Sunday nights CNN presidential debate and again today on the campaign trail in a new radio ad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michigan's economy teetering. America's auto companies asked for help.

ZELENY: Sanders cried foul. But it's the latest sign the Clinton campaign doesn't think the race is over. Tonight a new Monmouth University poll showed Clinton up by 13 points here, yet Michigan Democrats say the race feels far tighter.

On the debate stage in Flint a civil conversation about the city's poisoned water crisis.

CLINTON: It is raining lead in Flint.

SANDERS: What I heard and what I saw literally shattered me.

ZELENY: Suddenly gave way to a clash.

CLINTON: You know ...

SANDERS: Excuse me. I'm talking.

ZELENY: Over Wall Street, trade and guns.

CLINTON: That is like the NRA position, no.

SANDERS: Can I finish please?

ZELENY: The NRA agreeing, sending out a tweet today. Senator Sanders was spot on in his comments about gun manufacture liability. Sanders has been on the defensive about guns. But said he and Clinton disagree whether gun maker should be held liable.

SANDERS: Not really mean, you know, starting down the entire gun industry. That's what it means pure and simple. If that is Secretary Clinton's position, let her state it.

ZELENY: Some Democrats worry the rancor could divide the party. A prospect Clinton said she would work to avoid.

CLINTON: If I am the nominee, I'm going to want Bernie's help and Bernie supporters help. You know, some of them like us both but feel very motivated by his message. And so, I think they will be persuadable. Others may be really disappointed for a long time.

ZELENY: For now, Sanders is fighting hard hoping to win in Michigan could reset the race.

SANDERS: The people of Michigan are be coming out and voting tomorrow. All of you are going to be out voting tomorrow?


COOPER: Jeff Zeleny joins us now from Detroit. So, what is Sanders doing this final push before the primary tomorrow to get people out to vote?

ZELENY: Anderson, one thing he's doing is rallying college students. He just wrapped up a short time ago a rally at the University of Michigan and in Ann Arbor a nearly 6,000 students there.

In the last week or so, he also did that at Michigan State University and other universities in recent weeks. So, he's hoping for the support from younger voters that have helped him in other states. He's also hoping for the open primary system in Michigan. That means you don't have to be registered as a Democrat. You simply have to walk in tomorrow and pick up a Democratic ballot. It's a very much open to people who don't always necessarily vote, but they may be Senator Sanders supporters.

[21:30:04] And tonight Anderson, he's also on the air with the radio ad, he saying that all the auto bailout talk is dishonest politics from the Clinton campaign. That he was with Detroit, with Michigan from the very beginning. The question is will this work for him or not? The demographics of the state fit him pretty well, some 70 percent or so white voters here. But the Clinton campaign is well organized. Bill Clinton has been here so much, Hillary Clinton as well.

So, tomorrow will be a key test for how long and how strong this fight will continue. Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny. Jeff thanks very much. With me again, CNN Inside Politics anchor John King, Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, our CNN Political Commentators, New Yorker Washington Correspondent Ryan Lizza, sorry. Democratic strategist, Paul Begala adviser to Pro-Hillary Clinton's Super PAC and a longtime Adviser President Clinton in the '90s and Democratic Strategist Donna Brazile, Vice Chair of DNC voter registration participation and Talk Radio Host Bill Press who supports Bernie Sanders.

Secretary Clinton said to short time, grab the sooner I can become your nominee, the sooner, you know, I can begin to turn my attention to the general. Should she be saying that at this point in the race?

PAUL BEGALA, ADVISER, PRO-HILLARY CLINTON SUPERPAC: No. No honestly I can't advise her so I can do it on T.V.

COOPER: Right.

BEGALA: No, along, tough primary makes a tougher nominee. I mean as long as she wins, she's going to be happy. But you don't want to close this down too soon, you don't want to wrap this up.

But I believe she has an insurmountable lead. I believe the math simply doesn't work for Senator Sanders.

It doesn't mean he should get out. When we reached this point with Obama, but her lead today is bigger than Barack Obama's was at the stage, the race. But when Barack Obama ...

COOPER: Where they were more candidates at that point? Weren't there? Or would John Edwards ...

BEGALA: No, John Edwards was pretty much favor ...

COOPER: Go ahead.

BEGALA: ... will have his previous state has moved ...


BEGALA: ... right then and so. But she has a bigger lead today than Obama did at this point. When Obama had an insurmountable lead he did something very unusual for a politician. He became very gracious.

He stepped up back, his people were wrapped up. They hate Hillary, and Hillary people hate Brack right? He stepped up and he stepped in. He said, look, you will come down, you give her the time and space to make her message, to find her voice, to run her campaign. This is what I want Bernie to do.

As long as she's rallying people, you look last night that I think she did a great job at the debate. But, it wasn't too harsh or too negative. Please I like this campaign.

BRAZILE: But we didn't compare hand sizes.

BEGALA: Now she gave the most substantive speech last week at the Detroit Manufacturing Center. Where she really walked through in a very whacky brilliant way what she do with the economy. I want her to do more of that. And I think the campaign helps maybe brings some attention.

COOPER: It was interesting last night, Donna. Because, I mean there have been some question of how much are they going to be kind of both pivoting to Donald Trump, to the Republican race in general. You know, would Bernie Sanders start to kind of go kind of pull back from maybe being aggressive with Hillary Clinton, just in terms of topics that he brings up.

But he was sending out some tough tweets saying, you know, Hillary Clinton's trade policies, we see what the people of Detroit now it was gone or showing burned out houses. And even on the debate stage, there were fireworks on NAFTA and other issues.

BRAZILE: Wasn't as many fireworks of that, you know, Republican side ...


BRAZILE: ... but it was fiery, it was spirited. But look, this race is not over. Now at the end of next week, I may change my tune. I will not change my neutrality, but I will change my tune because as John know, half the delegates will be selected. And those of us who know a little bit about the Democratic Party, you have to assemble a diverse coalition.

Senator Sanders is doing well in states that marries (ph) states like Iowa and Vermont where he's from. But you have to be able to pull a very diverse, not just young and old, black and white, rich and poor, Hispanics and others.

So, in Mississippi, for example, President Obama carried Mississippi with 61 percent of the vote. Secretary Clinton carried Michigan, although it was a contested state. We had to fix that at the convention. She won 56 percent of the vote last time.

So, at the end of next week, this race is going to shift a little bit because half the delegates will have been selected.

COOPER: Well, Bill Press, I mean Senator Sanders struggled throughout the primaries obviously as we all know to making roads with African- American voters.

And the comment he made last night which has been, you know, kind of trumpeted by the Clinton campaign today, certainly doesn't help his cause.

BILL PRESS, SANDER'S SUPPORTER: The comments about Flint, Michigan, or which comments?

COOPER: The comment about ghetto, about -- sort of indicating that really only African-Americans live in ghettos. I mean those comments where things that he had to come back on the trail today and, you know, kind of try to explain what he meant. It's the last thing he wanted to be doing on a day like this.

PRESS: No, and unfortunate on comment and I think he did his best today to clarify. But, I've got to agree with Donna and Paul here on this. First of all, there is no reason for Bernie Sanders to drop out. He's got all the money. He's got -- that he needs -- he's got millions of people who support him. I mean, he represents the progressive wing or, if you will, the Elizabeth Warren or now the Bernie Sanders wing of the party that's important.

But also, I think it's good for Hillary Clinton to have him in there. She's a better, stronger candidate because of Bernie. And it's good for the party.

[21:35:01] There's a point I want to make. Look, what happens if Bernie drops out? Then there's radio silence on the Democratic side. You don't think CNN is going to give Hillary Clinton a whole two hours just for her to talk by herself.

Don't forget about the Democratic side. We don't get our message out and all we'll hear are the Republican side. So, this is a healthy debate. Let it play out.

COOPER: Right. Do you see Bernie Sanders going all the way to the convention? Look, he's got the money certainly and he's got the enthusiasm.

LIZZA: That's the most important issue, right? In the old days, you got out of the race at this point when the math became impossible because you ran out of money, right? That's the way it happens.

He raised $40 million in February.

COOPER: Right.

LIZZA: He's raised is about ...


LIZZA: ... 140 total, he can go as long as it takes for -- until that money runs dry. It's about a 60/40 race nationally. That's probably what it will end up being. The more delegates he takes into that convention, the bigger influence he has ...

COOPER: Right.

LIZZA: ... in shaping the policy platform at the convention and the bigger voice he has there.

BORGER: And in 2008, Hillary Clinton didn't get out, if you recall.

COOPER: Right, yeah.

BORGER: So ...

COOPER: Right.

BORGER: ... you can't call for Bernie Sanders to get out.

COOPER: And he -- I mean ...


COOPER: ... he's already had a huge impact on her message on, you know, the subject she's talking about and frankly, the positions she's taken.

KING: She should be careful not to sound arrogant or not ...

COOPER: Right.

KING: ... pretend entitled.

LIZZA: Right.

KING: He should, you know, I think, you know, if she read what she said today, she would change the wording a little bit saying, "I love Bernie Sanders being in the race but, you know, I'm going to focus more on the Republicans." You can find a better nuance for that.

BRAZILE: But John, there are people inside the party who get word whenever there's a skirmish this fight. They don't want to see blood the way we see the blood on the Republican for, and that's why I think that question was supposed ...

KING: But Sanders people say, "Oh, these are red states, you're never going to win in November.'' But this is how Obama won the nomination too. He has won across the south, from South Carolina all the way over to Texas. And she's proven that she can get a higher percentage of African-American voters and in Texas, Latino voters.

The test for Sanders tomorrow in Michigan and then Illinois and Ohio next week, if he's going to prove that he's a candidate for the nomination, he has to do better in those states. He has win at least one of them. He has to show that -- my economic message sells in the industrial Midwest in states that have a diverse population. He needs to do that.

If he doesn't do that, then the question is, where is Bernie Sanders head? Because the issue is, after New Hampshire, they thought they had just win the nomination. They thought they're going to win Nevada, they had a chance for a minute.

His supporters are revved up. How each manages the relationship with the other ...

COOPER: Right.

KING: ... and their supporters is going to be critical.

COOPER: That's critical.

KING: Because if Hillary Clinton wins the nomination, she needs those Sanders supporters. COOPER: We've got take a break. I want to thank our panel. A quick programming, now Clinton-Sanders face off on the debate stage once again in just a few days.

Can you imagine keeping that schedule? Tune in, CNN airs the Univision Democratic debate live from Miami, Wednesday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Of course, you can watch "AC 360" right before the debate and we'll have post debate coverage as well.

Just ahead, a new warning about ISIS from Britain's top anti-terrorism officers comes on the hills.

A new remark from Donald Trump, about the links he says, he would go to win president to allow tortures as a weapon in the war on terror.


TRUMP: We have to beat the savages.


TRUMP: No. We -- well, look, you have to play the game the way they're playing the game.



[21:41:55] COOPER: A sobering warning today about ISIS. Britain's top anti-terrorism official says the terror group may be planning, "Enormous and spectacular attack on the U.K.''. ISIS in his telling is broadening its plans and scope of its targets. He was talking about a general threat profile, not a specific known plot.

The threat from ISIS has been a frequent topic in the Republican debate with frontrunner Donald Trump saying he would support this of terror -- torture in the war on terror. Over the weekend, he doubled down, telling CBS News, he would strengthen laws to allow the use of torture.


TRUMP: We are playing by rules but they have no rules. It's very hard to win when ...

DICKERSON: Is that what separates us from the savages?

TRUMP: No. I don't think so. No. We have to beat the savages.

DICKERSON: And therefore, throw all rules out.

TRUMP: We have to beat the savages.

DICKERSON: By being savages?

TRUMP: No. We -- well, look, you have to play the game the way they're playing the game.

You're not going to win if we're soft and they're -- they have no rules. Now, I want to stay within the laws. I want to do all of that. But I think we have to increase the laws because the laws are not working.

Obviously, all you have to do is take a look at what's going on. And they're getting worse. They're chopping, chopping, chopping and we're worried about water boarding. I just think it's -- I think our priorities are mixed up.


COOPER: That line about wanting to change law, that's actually new for Trump. As you may know, he was talking about going after the families of terrorists, by going after their wives and kids. He's now said that he would not order his troops or U.S. troops to do anything illegal, but now he says he wants to broaden those laws.

Joining us now with CNN Military Analyst, retired Army Lieutenant General, Mark Hertling and back with us Gloria Borger and Jeffrey Lord.

So General Hertling, when it comes to -- so what we just heard Donald Trump saying, essentially ISIS has no rules, therefore, we shouldn't either. What do you say to that?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, RET. U.S. ARMY: I think he's attempting to say we should go back to the 16th century in the way we fight, Anderson. And we've learned an awful lot since then.

Yeah, the enemy we have been engaging for over the last decade or so, have actually been a middle aged enemy. They do things that are abysmal. I've seen it on the battlefield. It's horrible.

But when you're talking about the American way of war, the way we train our soldiers, the values we have as a society, the things we imbue in our soldiers before we send them to fight. You can't just say, "Hey, turn into savages, play by their rules." Because we've seen not only from some of the incidents that have occurred over the last decade of war, but also as a read of history.

The French tried to do this in the '50s against the Algerians. And it was a debacle. You can't just turn yourself into savages on the battlefield when you're coming from a nation because you basically lose control of your troops.

COOPER: You know, Donald Trump also says that when asked, well, look -- or when told, one of the reasons there are rules of war is so that when our soldiers, when our marines are captured, that perhaps there's less of a chance that torture will be used against them, if we are torturing, then sort of all the rules are off. He says essentially, "Well, look, these groups are already doing that, so we might as well expand the laws."

[21:45:04] HERTLING: It's an interesting argument that I don't buy. Again, it goes back to, it is not who we are as a nation. It is not who we are as a military. We spent several generations building one of the best militaries of the world had ever seen and now we're getting ready to change it and say, forget about all that and just do whatever you want on the battlefield.

It's an interesting dynamic coming from an individual who has never been on the battlefield who doesn't understand how to lead soldiers, how to lead formations and lead troops. I'm just quite frankly perplexed by his ability to say these things when he's never done it.

COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, as a Trump supporter, when he's talking about, you know, expanding the rules of torture or, you know, the weapons that we can use against a force like ISIS, I mean, do you really believe Trump when he says that, you know ISIS is laughing at us because we're talking about water boarding when they're doing all this other stuff? I mean, is it really, you think a lack of fear of the U.S. that's motivating ISIS?

LORD: I do think that's a problem. I mean, first of all, let's be clear here. I mean he's talked consistently in this campaign, not necessarily in this complex, which is to general, he's been critical of President Obama for not going to Congress and not getting legislation passed instead using the executive order and that sorts of thing.

So, you know, his whole premise here is that you do have to abide by the law. Now that said ...

COOPER: But he's never really talked about -- in fact, he's always there we should do water boarding and we should do much worse.

LORD: I find it very interesting. You know, as you know, I worked for President Reagan. And I remember back in the 1980s when we were not doing any water boarding, we weren't doing any "torturing", and the other side, I forget the group that was involved, took a CIA operative by the name of William Buckley and tortured him repeatedly and killed him.

COOPER: He was chains to a radiator for seven years.

LORD: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now we weren't water boarding a soul, we weren't torturing a soul. So the argument that well, if we do this, this going to provoke. We weren't doing any of this and this was provoked and on top of that ...

COOPER: But you're comparing ...

LORD: You're correct Anderson in saying ...

COOPER: But Jeffrey you comparing the methods of a terrorist organization, a small terrorist organization to the methods that's a great country like the United States should use. Is that really -- do you really want the U.S. to be using the same methods?

LORD: I think I'm -- I think I am correct in saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the United States violated Pakistani law when we went after Osama bin Laden. We killed family members of Osama bin Laden, I'm led to believe, when we were out there to get Osama Bin Laden. And there is that famous photograph that President Obama himself and Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden ...


COOPER: Let me bring in General Hertling. To Jeffrey Lord's point though, the killing civilians in the midst of a combat situation in which you're trying to get a target like Osama bin Laden, perhaps he's hiding behind whether in a facility, that's a lot different than intentionally targeting the wives, the children of terrorist.

HERTLING: Yeah it is Anderson. And what we're talking about is and it's a horrible word to use, but I'll use it. Collateral damage. It comes along with going after the target. That occurs. I have seen it multiple times in combat, and it's unfortunate when you kill family members because you're going after a target.

But the American way of war is to avoid that at all cost, if you can. The interesting piece of it is, you know, Mr. Trump has been asking us to violate the laws of war on several occasions.

COOPER: We have to end the discussion there. I'm sorry. General Hertling, I would love to have you back, Jeffrey Lord on this subject as well. Thank you.

Just ahead, remembering former first lady Nancy Reagan.


[21:52:25] COOPER: Well, flags are flying at half-staff at Federal Buildings tonight, including at the Ronald Reagan Presidential library in Semi Valley, California, where Nancy Reagan will be buried on Friday next to her husband.

The former first lady died Sunday at her home in Los Angeles of congestive heart failure at the age of 94. She was known as a fierce protector over his husband during his time in the White House and throughout his line decline from Alzheimer's. Their close bond was evident and even casual observers and those who knew them best saw the legendary love between them up close.

Sheila Tate was Nancy Reagan's former press secretary she joins me tonight tonight.

Ms. Tate thank you so much for joining us, you worked as Nancy Reagan's press secretary for many years. Talk to me a little bit about that time. I mean it was an extraordinary time to be in the White House, the beginning of the Reagan administration. What do you most remember about Mrs. Reagan?

SHEILA TATE, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR NANCY REAGAN: Well, it's hard to come up with one thing, because in the whole time I worked with her, I don't think there was ever a boring day or a typical day in the White House. And she was -- she was a wonderful boss. I enjoyed working for her. We became very close friends over the years and until she died. And that alone is worth a lot to me.

COOPER: You know, so many people think of Mrs. Reagan as, you know, somebody who loved to give parties, and you know was an extraordinary hostess in the White House, but there were also, I mean, some of the moments that she and the president liked best were just kind of eating dinner on a tray watching television.

TATE: Well exactly and that's really true and -- but she was a good at home. She was a good at hostess. She was good at everything she did, because she was a perfectionist. Anybody who came to that White House, she wanted them to leave feeling like it has been the most extraordinary night of their lives.

COOPER: And certainly after leaving the White House and as President Reagan declined, the role she took on as caretaker and advocate, not only for President Reagan, but also for others dealing with Alzheimer's really kind of came to define her in the public mind later on in life.

TATE: It did, it showed that the strength of character which she had and the real iron woman was somebody that we all think that a love and the very characteristic of the way she protected him was criticized when they were in the White House and greatly admired when he was failing.

[21:55:16] COOPER: I remember, I was at the Reagan White House, covering President Reagan's return and burial there and I remember when she was by the area where he's interned and there was just so horrifically sad to the separation realizing that he was going to remain there and she would continue on without him. There's something, at least that now in the sadness of this, they are at least together.

TATE: That's right. And I think that is what she really longed for and wanted and that's what gives all of us who loved her some sense of peace.

COOPER: Well, Ms. Tate, I appreciate you talking to us a little bit. Thank you so much.

TATE: You're welcome.


COOPER: A reminder, it's a big week of politics here on CNN. Our special coverage of tomorrow's races starts in the evening at 7:00 eastern time. Then on Wednesday, we'll air the Univision Democratic debate live from Miami, 9:00 p.m. eastern. Thursday night, we're hosting the next GOP showdown, also live from Miami. That starts at 8:30 p.m. eastern.

[22:00:01] Thanks for watching this evening. Time now, for "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon.