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Dems Face Off in U.S. Presidential Debate; Interview with Donald Trump; ISIS Fighter Questionnaires Detail Recruits' Backgrounds; Canadian PM Trudeau on Official Visit to U.S.; New Warning for Athletes Using Banned Drug; Candidates Appealing to Gut-Level Emotions; Brazil's Lula Placed under Formal Investigation; Kidnapper Found Guilty 19 Years after Abduction. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired March 10, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: (voice-over): The INTERNATIONAL DESK, a heated debate between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.
(INAUDIBLE) ISIS document.
And Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau visits the White House.
ASHER (voice-over): Hello, everyone, welcome. I'm Zain Asher.
We start with pretty much the most contentious debate yet between the U.S. presidential candidates on the Democrat side, Hillary Clinton and Bernie
Sanders, sparring over immigration reform, auto bailouts and health care.
The debate came just a day after Bernie Sanders rejuvenated his campaign with a win in the Michigan primary. Here's our John Berman with more.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VT., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Madam Secretary, I will match my record against yours any day of the week.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new confidence from Bernie Sanders in this new campaign reality; after the huge Sanders upset in
Michigan this could go on for awhile.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've won some, I have lost some.
BERMAN (voice-over): The debate in Florida sponsored by Univision with sections in Spanish --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking Spanish).
BERMAN (voice-over): -- was full of questions on immigration and full of attempted contrasts.
CLINTON: In 2007, one of the first things you did was vote against Ted Kennedy's immigration reform.
SANDERS: I worked very hard in improving the guest worker provisions so that, in 2013, people who were in the guest worker program in America would
not be treated like slaves.
CLINTON: In 2006, Senator Sanders supported indefinite detention for people facing deportation and stood with the Minute Men vigilantes.
SANDERS: What the secretary is doing tonight and has done very often is take large pieces of legislation and take pieces out of it.
BERMAN (voice-over): Sanders continued to hit Clinton for what he called her ties to Wall Street.
SANDERS: There is a reason why Wall Street has provided $15 million just in the last reporting period to the secretary's super PAC.
CLINTON: I do have the toughest, most comprehensive plan to go after Wall Street.
SANDERS: Clearly the secretary's words to Wall Street has really intimidated them. And that is why they have given her $15 million in
BERMAN (voice-over): And Clinton continued to hit Sanders for being what she considers unrealistic.
CLINTON: Senator Sanders has talked about free college for everybody. He's talked about universal single payer health care for everybody. And
yet when you ask questions, as many of us have and, more importantly, independent experts, it's very hard to get answers.
And a lot of the answers say that this is going to be much more expensive than anything Senator Sanders is admitting to.
My dad used to say, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
SANDERS: I think if the rest of the world can do it, we can.
BERMAN (voice-over): Though most of the focus was on each other, there was some looking beyond to Donald Trump.
CLINTON: He's talking about a very tall wall, the most beautiful tall wall, better than the Great Wall of China. It's just fantasy.
BERMAN (voice-over): And some looking within.
CLINTON: I am not a natural politician, in case you haven't noticed, like my husband or President Obama. So I have a view that I just have to do the
best I can.
BERMAN (voice-over): There were few softballs. Clinton was flat-out asked if she would drop out of the race if indicted because of her e-mails.
CLINTON: Oh, for goodness -- that is not going to happen. I'm not even answering that question.
ASHER: That was our John Berman reporting there. Let's talk more about this. CNN political senior correspondent Chris Moody joins us live now
So Chris, I want to get your thoughts on this because after Clinton's embarrassment in Michigan you saw earlier this week, do you think that she
proved herself last night?
CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we have seen from this election so far is that Clinton was not nearly as inevitable as
people said earlier. She still may be but she's going to have that thorn in her side, Bernie Sanders, the whole time.
What we saw last night was a difference of approaches. Hillary Clinton making the case that she's the one that can get things done. Not just have
the correct beliefs that the Left will like about her but that she can pass it through a Congress that will likely have Republican opposition.
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders talking to the base, saying here's what we should be able to do and but he doesn't necessarily make the case that he will be
able to do it. But he does have that ace in the hole, talking about her not releasing the --
MOODY: -- transcripts to talking to Wall Street, accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I think we can expect with the Michigan results
and the debate that this Democratic primary is going to continue on.
ASHER: And Chris, one topic that came up again and again, as you know, was immigration. Both candidates were actually asked at one point to promise
to end the policy of deporting undocumented immigrant children.
How do you think either side did when it came to appealing to Latino voters?
MOODY: This is very interesting because in a way they really repudiated a lot of what President Obama has done during his presidency. A lot of
people in the Latino community call President Obama the deporter in chief for deporting lots and lots of people during his administration.
We saw the Democrats that could be the next president on the Democratic side saying that they are not going to be as aggressive as he has been.
One thing I thought was very interesting last night was to talk about Cuba. Hillary Clinton showed that video of Bernie Sanders in a way in 1985,
saying some nice things about the Castro regime.
And then something that will not play very well here in Miami and I think that was a real kill shot in the debate last night. But I don't think
Bernie Sanders is yet dead or going away.
ASHER: And, Chris, before I leave you, I just want to talk about the Republican side. Next Tuesday you have got those winner-take-all states
voting. There's going to be a GOP debate tonight.
What's your anticipation?
Will there be sparks flying?
And if so, what over?
MOODY: Huge night tonight, especially for Florida senator Marco Rubio. It is do or die here in Florida. The election is next Tuesday. The question
is what is his Hail Mary going to be?
What is he going to say going after Trump?
He has to have an amazing showing tonight to really turn things around. The polling is looking very good for Donald Trump. And if Marco Rubio does
not turn it around, does not win here in Florida, he is out and this race will change dramatically.
So we are all looking to see what kind of tactic Marco Rubio is going to take tonight. Keep an eye on his side of the stage because that, I think,
is going to be very interesting and you're right, probably some huge sparks will fly.
ASHER: Yes, it's interesting because Marco Rubio has actually admitted that going after and attacking Trump in that way, hurling insults at him,
probably was not the best approach. Although he did say that he thinks he did deserve it.
Chris Moody, live for us there, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
MOODY: Thank you.
ASHER: Well, John sat down sat down with Anderson Cooper ahead of tonight's Republican debate on CNN. They talked about next week's crucial
primaries in Florida and Ohio. Trump also expressed strong opinions on Islam and terrorism. Take a look at some of that interview.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: If you win Ohio, Kasich drops out and you win Florida and Rubio is gone and it's just you and Cruz, if you don't get all
the delegates needed to win by the convention --
TRUMP: Well, I think if I win Ohio and if I win Florida, pretty much you're going to be pretty much assured of doing that.
COOPER: You think you'll get all the delegates?
TRUMP: I think so. Yes, I really think so. I don't see the convention going that route. I see -- I see probably getting the delegates. You
know, it's like the fighters. That's the ultimate way of doing it. You knock them out.
If you knock them out, nothing can happen.
COOPER: You want to go for a knockout?
TRUMP: I'd rather go for a knockout.
COOPER: If it goes to convention you don't have -- you're a couple short or a couple hundred short, for you, that doesn't matter?
It's got to be you as the nominee. No other deal is acceptable.
TRUMP: I think this. If you go to the convention and because of some artificial number that they said, if you go to the convention and you are
leading by a lot of delegates, I think you should get the nomination.
And that will be me. I mean, I'll have far more delegates. Now, whether I get to that artificial number, I don't know, but I think I will.
COOPER: Do you think Islam is at war with the West?
TRUIMP: I think Islam hates us. There is something -- there is something there that's a tremendous hatred there. There's a tremendous hatred. We
have to get to the bottom of it. There is an unbelievable hatred of us.
COOPER: In Islam itself?
TRUMP: You're going to have to figure that out. OK? You'll get another Pulitzer, right?
But you're going to have to figure that out. But there is a tremendous hatred. And we have to be very vigilant. We have to be very careful. And
we can't allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States.
COOPER: I guess the question is ...
TRUMP: And of people that are not Muslim.
COOPER: I guess the question is, is there a war between the West and radical Islam or is there a war between the West and Islam itself?
TRUMP: Well, it's radical but it's very hard to define. It's very hard to separate because you don't know who is who.
Look, these two young people that got married, she supposedly radicalized him.
Who knows what happened?
COOPER: The San Bernardino killer?
TRUMP: The bottom line is they killed 14 people. They gave them baby showers. I mean, they were friends of theirs and they walked in and they
killed them. There's an unbelievable hatred.
You look at Paris, 138 people killed. Many, many people are going to die in the hospital. Mortally wounded, horribly wounded, horribly wounded.
TRUMP: And they walk into a room and boom, boom, boom. There's a sickness going on that's unbelievable. And, honestly, you have to get to the bottom
COOPER: You talked about going after the families of terrorists. You now reversed that essentially ...
TRUMP: I didn't reverse anything.
COOPER: You would still want to go after the families of terrorists?
TRUMP: No, no, no. I didn't reverse anything. I clarified very simply, we have laws. We have to obey the laws. Now --
COOPER: Going after families of terrorists would be against the law?
TRUMP: I didn't say kill. We have to go after them though. The family knows -- look, you have a terrorist.
TRUMP: You have a terrorist. You have a -- we're going to have to do something. And it's the only way you're going to stop it.
ASHER: And the Republican candidates are going to be going head-to-head just a few hours from now. Our very own Jake Tapper is going to be
moderating the debate from the University of Miami, beginning at 8:30 pm Eastern time. You'll be able to see it in its entirety Friday morning at
9:00 am Hong Kong time.
Let's turn now to a document leak that reveals details on thousands and thousands of ISIS fighters. The cache includes what looks like a pretty
standard job application form, inquiring about education, date of birth, jobs, et cetera, until it asks about the recruit's previous jihad
experience and sharia level as well. Let's talk more about this with our Fred Pleitgen, who joins us live now from London.
So Fred, walk us through how exactly these documents were leaked and what more do they tell us?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not exactly clear how they were leaked but certainly from what we gather from
many European publications and also what seems to be coming through from some authorities is that it might have been a disgruntled people who had
joined ISIS before who then leaked them not only to various publications here in Europe but also to the authorities as well. We have been in touch
with the German federal criminal investigations office and they confirm to us that they have these documents and that they truly believe that these
documents are authentic.
Now by and large, what you could basically call this is almost a registry of ISIS membership. It has got, as you said, the names of many people who
went to join ISIS. Now most people believe that all these were taken as these people entered the so-called caliphate, probably from Turkey into
Syria or into Iraq.
But not only do they have the names of these people but for instance also questions like for instance, what sort of fighting name do these people
Do they want to be a front-line fighter or do they want to be a suicide bomber?
Do they have any prior experience in jihad?
So it really was a very detailed questionnaire that these people had to fill out. And certainly it does show that ISIS certainly appears to have
quite a knack for bureaucracy and of keeping track as to who is in its ranks. And it's certainly something that now the intelligence services say
it's a wealth of information that they have gotten.
ASHER: So then how can they use that wealth of information to tackle things like recruitment?
PLEITGEN: ISIS recruitment and also the prosecution of people who for instance returned from places like Syria and Iraq. One of the big things
that the authorities have said has been a problem in the past is that you had people who have gone to Syria and Iraq. It was very difficult for the
authorities when these people came back to prove that they had gone there for the purpose of joining a terrorist organization like ISIS.
Now, of course, if you have a document in your hand, it could make it a lot easier for the authorities to for instance prosecute these people because
we know that is something that's been difficult for them in the past.
Recruitment for ISIS at this point -- the latest that we have been hearing is that it's down anyway. However, it could also make it more difficult
because now the intelligence services know how ISIS operates and know the information that they get and certainly also seem to be getting a better
grasp on where these people are trying to cross into the so-called caliphate -- Zain.
ASHER: It's remarkable that a terrorist group actually has an application form to join. Fred Pleitgen, live for us there, thank you so much,
Just ahead here at the INTERNATIONAL DESK, an official visit gets underway as U.S. President Barack Obama welcomes Canadian Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau. We'll get a live report from Washington coming up.
Also ahead, there's a new warning about the drug that got tennis great Maria Sharapova in trouble this week. Why the doctor who invented it says
that some athletes could indeed be risking their lives.
ASHER: Welcome back, everybody. The leaders of the U.S. and Canada are meeting right now as I speak at the White House. President Barack Obama
greeted Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau with a warm welcome and lots of pomp and circumstance just a short time ago. The two are going to be
talking about trade and climate change as well as the war against ISIS.
This is the first official visit by a Canadian prime minister in almost 20 years. Athena Jones is joining us live now from the White House.
So Athena, after Canada's nine years of conservative rule, Justin Trudeau and President Obama are both like-minded people with very similar political
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Zain. There's been a lot of talk about the similarities between these two leaders. They are both
relativity young, although President Obama has 10 years on the prime minister, Justin Trudeau.
But they talk about shared values. These are also two leaders who excited a lot of young, liberal voters, a lot of -- came into office on a wave of
excitement. And this first official visit in 19 years is a chance for the White House to point out the importance and the priority of the U.S.
relationship with Canada.
We heard both from the president and the prime minister who delivered remarks just a few minutes ago in that ceremony, talking about the shared
values and shared interests.
We expect that during this meeting they will talk about a number of those shared values and interests, from trade and climate change and energy
issues to also issues of national security and of course the fight against ISIS.
So a lot on the plate today. A lot on the table for a big, big day here at the White House -- Zain.
ASHER: So, Athena, just explain to our viewers why has it been so long in terms of this being the first official visit by a Canadian PM in almost 20
JONES: Well, there's no official response to that. The fact is, there's always communication between the U.S. and Canada, countless phone calls
talking about things like ISIS and other issues.
The former prime minister, Stephen Harper, visited here in 2009. It wasn't an official visit but it was a bilateral. There have been other meetings
on the sidelines of conferences and conventions and the like.
And we know that the president's first trip, first foreign trip when he came to the White House was in 2009 to Ottawa, to Canada. So it's a very
strong, very close relationship. Ask anyone on either side and they will say the same thing.
But, yes, this is a chance to give Canada -- it's a priority and a preference in having this official visit and having a state dinner because
state dinners, you have visits and bilaterals but you -- state dinners are not an everyday thing -- Zain.
ASHER: Yes. There will be a press conference, just to remind our viewers, in about an hour and a half from now. We're going to be hearing both from
President Obama and Justin Trudeau as well. We'll be carrying that live.
Athena Jones, live for us there, thank you so much.
And the approach to the Syrian refugee crisis stands in stark contrast to the one taken by the United States. While Mr. Obama's efforts towards
major resettlement have met strong political opposition, Mr. Trudeau's government is already working to resettle thousands who fled the Syrian
Here's a look at one place refugees are now calling home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Leftbridge is a small city. Chances are you'll see the same things more than one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We're in Southern Alberta, 2.5 hours south of Calgary, an hour from the U.S. border. It's just a smallish kind of
Canadian prairie city.
In many ways it looks nothing like Syria, culturally, geographically, climate wise it's light years away. But (INAUDIBLE) a kind of a bit ahead
of the curve in a sense of how we collaborate and -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): -- how we've been very intentional about discussing, OK, what's this going to look like?
How can we best prepare for the numbers that we think are coming?
What do we need to adapt to?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the federal government is counting on community support. This limbo period can be really, really difficult and
so to have that collaboration of all the other partners in town is fantastic because it's making the settlement feel that much smoother
because a lot of these families have literally come with the clothes on their backs and that's it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Initially there were some responses that were unfavorable and people were suspicious. I think meeting the families and
having them integrated into our community, having them attend community events has dispelled a lot of that fear and people could see that they are
normal human beings like everybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we look across the border, those of us in Canada and we see some of the really reactionary fearmongering, it's alarming
because America, like Canada, is a country of immigrants, of people who have come from somewhere else. And I just think that that kind of goes
against what I think we're called to be as human beings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I started in this because I thought it was a good thing to do. I didn't realize I would start to care so much. And you go
from this would be a really good thing to do to, oh, my goodness ,here are people, like real people, like people with names and birthdays and kids and
all of a sudden it changes everything.
It's not a political issue. It's people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because my family is here it's that my life changed. My son has grandparents. They are so happy here. I can't find words to
explain how much caring the community is nice here. Maybe because my English, because I'm not born here, I need somebody to tell me something
more than thank you to thank these people here.
ASHER: It's very touching. Time for a quick break here on CNN. When we come back, the Latvian inventor of a heart medication nearly banned by the
World Anti-Doping Agency says the ban of his drug may actually kill athletes. We'll have a live report from Moscow, coming up.
ASHER: Welcome back, everybody.
The scientist who invented the banned substance used by the world's richest female athlete has a warning for other athletes using his drug.
The Russian tennis great, Maria Sharapova, revealed Monday that she'd been meldonium, which is a heart medication, for years. In January, it was
added to the banned substance list by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Our Matthew Chance joins us live now from Moscow.
So, Matthew, you spoke to the actual drugmaker. Walk us through what exactly they are saying.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I spoke to the inventor. His name is Professor Ivars Kalvins. He lives and works in
And it's there in the late 1970s that he developed this drug, meldonium or Mildronate as it's also known by its brand name and he did it because he
was trying to work out a way of stopping people having heart attacks. And that's essentially what the drug does.
It protects people, athletes in particular, who push their bodies to the boundaries of exertion from damaging their cells, from damaging their
hearts and from damaging brain cells as well, which he says is a consequence of exercising to the extreme.
If you take this drug, it prevents you from --
CHANCE: -- having a heart attack essentially. What it does not do -- and the professor was very clear about this -- is enhance your performance as
an athlete. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVARS KALVINS, INVENTOR OF MILDRONATE: Mildronate is very safe and protected the life and health of the sportsmen. And from my point of view,
everybody should use from these top athletes this substance to be sure their career will continue for 10 years or 15 years, not for (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: The other concern that he expressed in our interview we did over Skype from Latvia is that he said that now that the IAAF has banned this
drug, it means, he feels, that there is going to be a increase in the number of what he calls sudden deaths amongst athletes because athletes, he
says, simply won't have the protection anymore that this drug provides to them against heart failure.
ASHER: And Matthew, do we know if he's spoken to the IAAF about that?
CHANCE: I don't know whether he has or not. He doesn't appear to have been consulted on the relative merits of this drug. He certainly wasn't
able to offer an explanation to us as to why it was that the International Athletics Federation, the IAAF, would have chosen to ban this substance.
As far as he's concerned, he says, this is a purely beneficial substance. It protects athletes. It doesn't enhance their performance. It doesn't
destroy the body; in fact, it achieves the opposite of that. And so he's a bit bemused, he says, as to why this substance has been taken off the --
put on a ban list.
ASHER: And also meldonium is widely used in Russia and the fact that it is on the ban list, as you mentioned, how much of a problem is that creating
for Russian athletes overall?
CHANCE: Well, I think a pretty substantial one. And it's not just Maria Sharapova, the professional tennis player, of course, that's been caught
out, as it were, in the last few months with taking this drug. There are lots of others as well, particularly Russians but not just Russians.
It's a drug that has approval for sale, mainly in Eastern Europe, in Russia, et cetera. It doesn't have approval for sale in the U.S., which is
why we're not seeing many U.S. athletes having taken this at the moment.
ASHER: All right. Matthew Chance, live for us there, thank you so much.
You're at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Coming up, how Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are tapping into voters' anger as they vie for the White House.
We'll get an analysis from CNN political reporter Stephen Collinson, who's joining us live on the other side of this break.
ASHER: Welcome to the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Let's get you caught up on the headlines.
ASHER: You know what that sound means. It's politics time. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are on opposite sides of the political spectrum but on
several key issues, both candidates are voicing a common theme. Senior political reporter Stephen Collinson joins me live from our Washington
So, Stephen, in terms of their similarities, obviously, they are complete opposite in terms of political views but they really are tapping into an
anger that hasn't previously been tapped into before.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Zain. I think that we'll look back and see this as one of the defining features of
this election, both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders have found a way to give voice to the feelings of economic disenfranchisement, alienation,
economic anxiety and fear that no other candidate have done.
If you go outside Washington or California or New York and you go into the heartland of the United States, you find that despite the economic
recovery, despite the low gas prices, despite the stock markets soaring, there's a great deal of economic anxiety. There's a feeling among many
people that unseen distant elites are making choices about the American economy and the global economy in terms of trade deals, things like the
TPP, the big trade deal with Asia that are keeping normal Americans out, that life for a normal American is very tough and that some of the economic
decisions that have been made over the last 20 years, particularly on big trade deals, have made the lot of the everyday American a lot worse.
And Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump have been able to speak to this in very different ways, as you say, but in a way that no other candidate has
managed and that's why Bernie Sanders did very well in Michigan, a state of the industrial Northwest, which has had a lot of economic problems, and
it's why Donald Trump has done so well with traditional conservative Republicans in the south of the country and all over America, really --
ASHER: Although, Stephen, one key difference, though, is that Donald Trump is bringing in new voters into the fray, voters who wouldn't be part of the
electoral process if it wasn't for him.
Why hasn't Bernie Sanders been able to do the same on the other side?
COLLINSON: That's true, well, because Bernie Sanders is a traditional left-wing liberal Democrat. He has his constituency. One of his big
problems is he's not been able to break out of that constituency.
That's why Hillary Clinton, despite Sanders' success, is still -- appears to be on the way to winning this nomination. And Donald Trump has taken it
a step further than Bernie Sanders.
Bernie Sanders rails against Wall Street, big banks, big corporations. Donald Trump has introduced a cultural aspect to this. He's talking more
economic nationalism. He's looking for culprits for the plight many Americans find themselves in.
So he identifies China, for example, who he says -- which he says has stolen many jobs in the industrial areas of the United States. He talks
about Japan being a very devious negotiator and says that the U.S. is not able to operate on the same level in international trade talks.
That's one of the reason he's targeting illegal immigrants. A lot of people in the center of the United States, in places like Texas, feel that
illegal immigrants are coming into the country and sort of undercutting U.S. workers. They work for wages that U.S. workers wouldn't work for.
So Donald Trump has a much more nativist, aggressive message. He is riding this feeling that something is not quite right and somebody is to blame.
And that's why he's been so successful in this Republican nominating race.
ASHER: It's interesting because when President Obama took office, unemployment was around roughly 8 percent. Now it's closer to 4.9 percent
but there is still that economic anxiety, economic anger that both of those candidates are tapping into.
Stephen Collinson, live for us there, thank you so much.
COLLINSON: Thanks, Zain.
ASHER: And just a reminder to you all, you can actually Stephen Collinson's fascinating article --
ASHER: -- comparing Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders and how they have tapped into this economic rage. You can go to cnn.com/politics.
And Brazil's former president has been placed under formal investigation in a corruption case. That's according to state media. Luiz Inacio Lula da
Silva denies the allegations that followed a raid on his home last week and an interrogation by police. CNN's Shasta Darlington joins me live now from
Rio with more.
Shasta, walk us through what specifically Lula has been charged with.
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, it's a bit complicated. Basically these are prosecutors in the state of Sao Paulo
and they have not detailed what the charges are.
What we do know is that it's part of an investigation into money laundering and hidden assets. And that would be in relation to this triplex, this
beachside condo that investigators believe belongs to Lula and his family but they haven't declared it. And at this stage, under Brazilian law, a
judge still needs to decide whether to accept those charges and really take Lula to trial. So we're waiting to hear about that.
But it's a big move because it comes on the tail, as you mentioned, of that raid last week by federal police on his home. They took him in for
questioning on suspicion that he's benefitting from a massive bribery scandal involving the state-run oil company, Petrobras.
And as you said, he's denied these allegations but they want to take a closer look at a couple of properties, at some fees he's received for
speeches and also some donations to a nonprofit foundation called The Lula Foundation.
This is a towering man in Brazilian politics so all of this is really sending shock waves through the country -- Zain.
ASHER: And Lula, he's saying that he thinks these accusations are politically motivated.
Is there evidence of that?
How does he prove that?
DARLINGTON: Well, Zain, he hasn't actually provided evidence for that but what we have heard from a lot of people is that that last week the decision
by federal police to swoop in unexpected and take him downtown was really unnecessary.
They say they could have called him and asked him to come in for questioning. And Lula himself said that is a sign that they are trying to
turn this into a political circus.
Just remember, corruption is, unfortunately, nothing new in Brazil in this big bribery scandal. A whole slew of politicians have been implicated.
Many of them from the workers' party, others from other parties. Again, Lula and his supporters say they just happen to be going after the Workers'
Party with more enthusiasm.
And again, to put this in perspective, back in 1992, the president of Brazil was forced to resign in the middle of an impeachment proceeding over
corruption. A few years later, he was elected into the Senate. The difference now is that people are going to jail -- Zain.
ASHER: That's interesting because President Dilma Rousseff has actually been showing her solidarity for Lula. (INAUDIBLE) visited their apartment
and there was that photo opportunity. We'll see what happens in this case, though. Shasta Darlington, live for us there, thank you so much.
You're at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Still ahead, the family of a girl kidnapped nearly two decades ago finally has some closure. This is really
a bizarre story. What a South African judge ruled in the case against the kidnapper. That's coming up.
ASHER: Welcome back, everybody. A South African woman has been convicted of kidnapping a newborn baby girl almost 19 years after it happened. The
victim was reunited with her biological family in a very strange twist of fate. Years after she was taken, the girl actually ended up at the same
school as her biological sister.
Our David McKenzie has been following this story; it is somewhat complicated. He joins me live now from Johannesburg.
So David, walk our viewers through an exact timeline of events.
What exactly happened 19 years ago?
How was this girl kidnapped?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's quite extraordinary because, Zain, this tale has gripped the South African public, as you say. It all
unfolded originally nearly 20 years ago when Zephany Nurse, which was her name at birth, was born.
Just a couple days in, her mother was groggy after a Caesarean section. A person came in dressed like a nurse and took her baby away. And then after
years of campaigning, saying that her child had been kidnapped with no leads whatsoever and some false hope, though, there was this instance when
her other daughter ended up at a high school where she recognized one of the seniors in that school and it was such a close resemblance that police
were brought in for DNA testing and this was the missing Zephany Nurse.
So an extraordinary tale, an entire lifetime almost up to the age of 17, 18, not knowing your real parents or that even you were taken in this
fashion. Now the trial has concluded, this woman who cannot be named was convicted of kidnapping, fraud and the contravening the Children's Act.
She is already in prison. They removed bail condition. And the sentencing will happen in late May -- Zain.
ASHER: Do we know what she could get in terms of sentencing?
MCKENZIE: It could be a very serious sentence. I spoke to the national prosecuting authority. They're saying they are not asking for a particular
number. But they are asking for a maximum sentence. This woman's defense was that she thought this was a legal adoption.
But the judge really didn't buy that, saying this was a fanciful defense. Of course now you have the situation that this young woman has grown up her
whole life, not knowing her real parents. She had been in the custody of the state. As an adult now, she can choose where she ends up but her
father said that blood is thicker than water. She is confident that she will come to them to her real parents.
But for a long time, these two families were living just a few miles away from each other, not knowing that their real daughter was there or even
alive -- Zain.
ASHER: It's remarkable that she was in the end reunited with her family. Bizarre twist of fate, as you mentioned. David McKenzie, live for us
there, thank you so much.
That does it for us here at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Zain Asher. I'll be back in just over an hour with more on the first official visit by a
Canadian prime minister to the White House in 19 years. But don't go anywhere. "WORLD SPORT" with Amanda Davies is up next.