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Republican Presidential Contest Heats Up. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired March 30, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Pamela Brown, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

More fallout from the video that has led to Donald Trump's campaign manager being criminally charged. Sixteen conservative women who are part of the news media are now calling on Trump to fire Corey Lewandowski. He's been charged with simple battery after this video right here showed an encounter this month between him and a reporter.

Still, Trump is standing by his top aide. This is what he told our Anderson Cooper at CNN's Republican town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I almost fell to the ground. I almost fell to the ground; she didn't almost fall to the ground. He got in her way. And, by the way, she was grabbing me! Am I supposed to press charges against her? Oh, my arm is hurting.

Anderson, my arm is just killing me. It's never been the same.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You've suggested you might.

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me! I didn't suggest.

COOPER: Oh, yes, you did.

TRUMP: I tweeted. No, no, I tweeted.

COOPER: A tweet is a suggestion.

TRUMP: Should I press charges?

COOPER: Are you going to?

TRUMP: Sure! I don't know. Maybe I should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And also coming into us today, a new poll from Marquette Law School that shows Ted Cruz is the Republican to beat in Wisconsin next Tuesday. His support is at 40 percent, with Trump in second place, followed by John Kasich.

A lot to talk about, so let's get right to it.

Ryan Williams is a former spokesman for Governors Romney and Sununu, and Gloria Borger is CNN chief political analyst, and also joining us today, Terra Grant. She's a Trump supporter.

First, Terra, to you, because we're now hearing that this group of conservative women are calling for Lewandowski to be fired. What's your reaction to that?

TERRA GRANT, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think it's absurd. I absolutely think it's absurd.

I'm not real sure how the reporter crossed the line. You would think she would do her job and get permission to approach Mr. Trump. And she didn't, obviously. And I think anyone would be justified in trying to check her and make sure that, hey, why are you touching my candidate?

Why are you -- why the security didn't catch her, first and foremost, I have no idea. But the fact that Corey had to do anything about it in the first place is kind of ridiculous. But I don't see that Corey did anything wrong. I have watched the tape. I have rewatched the tape. As a woman, I tried to find fault, almost, in Corey's actions, and I absolutely couldn't. And I do think the reporter, I think she's absurd.

BROWN: So, clearly, there are different interpretations and opinions about this video.

But in the wake of this and other things, Gloria, we're seeing in Wisconsin in particular Ted Cruz is doing better in the polls and Donald Trump not as much. He's in second place, as we see here. What do you make of that?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, and if you look deep into the poll that you're just showing on the air now, Pamela, what you see is that Cruz is doing significantly better with women voters.

And so up until this point, as we have looked at our exit polls during the primaries and the caucuses, Trump has always done the best among the Republican candidates with women. So the question that I have, and we really don't know the answer to it yet, but the question that I have is whether there's been kind of a chain of events, including the sort of Heidi Cruz/Melania Trump issue, including this issue with this journalist, and whether, you know, there is some kind of a cascade that is actually affecting how women are going to vote in the state of Wisconsin and beyond.

Again, it's too early to tell. This is one snapshot poll. Polls have been wrong in this campaign, but it's something we ought to be looking at.

BROWN: Given all that's going on.

BORGER: Yes. BROWN: Ryan, to you, because Trump, as we know, is rallying in

Wisconsin today. And he talked about Ted Cruz, calling him a liar. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I wouldn't say that your governor loves me, because, no, I knocked him out. He endorsed lying Ted Cruz. Lying Ted.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: You're a liar. Bible high, Bible high, puts it down and then he lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Ryan, do you think that Trump is sort of feeling the heat from Cruz, given the fact he's up 19 points from just last month?

RYAN WILLIAMS, REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN CONSULTANT: Well, I think it takes a certain amount of temerity and gall for someone like Donald Trump, who literally lies with every word he says in this campaign trail, to refer to anyone else as a liar.

Donald Trump lied about the Michelle Fields incident. They said it never happened. Then they changed their story to, well, it wasn't as bad as it could have been once the video came out. This is a campaign and a candidate who cannot tell the truth. And I do think he's feeling heat from Ted Cruz now. I think Ted Cruz is making progress.

And I think Trump has severely damaged his campaign by standing by his campaign manager, who should have resigned and not even put his candidate in a position to have to fire him.

GRANT: Why should he have resigned? Why should he have resigned?

WILLIAMS: He grabbed a woman and bruised her. I don't care what the circumstances are. You should not do that. That's just common decency.

[15:05:04]

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Excuse me?

GRANT: Would it be different if it would have been Hillary Clinton...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: There is no excuse for grabbing a woman and causing bruises. There's no point in continuing this discussion any further.

You do not strike a woman, as Corey did. That's not appropriate. And if he can't admit that as a candidate, that it's not appropriate to strike a woman, he does not deserve to be in the Oval Office. (CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Terra, go ahead.

GRANT: It's a matter of security.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He's not a security officer. Donald Trump is guarded by United States Secret Service agents.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Corey Lewandowski is not a Secret Service agent, despite the fact that he might want to think he is. He's the campaign manager. It's not his job to enforce security.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: OK, hold on, Ryan, because clearly, Terra is on Skype. So, it's hard to hear her.

I want her to respond to what you also said, Ryan, saying that Donald Trump himself is a liar.

Terra?

GRANT: Donald Trump -- you know, it's two candidates running for president. And there are going to be times when -- there are going to be times when things -- when -- there are going to be times when, you know, things are said and it's in the heat of the moment, and then they have to fact-check and then they have to go back and check other things.

So, you know what? I mean, Ted Cruz is just -- Obama did the same thing. Bill Clinton did the same thing. They have all done it. That doesn't make it right. However, but they have all exaggerated the truth or maybe they were not up to speed on certain issues.

And come on. I mean, it's just -- it's one of those things that he is not a liar. He's no more of a liar than Ted Cruz, and there are no -- it's ridiculous.

BROWN: OK.

So, then speaking of going back on something you said you would do, let's talk about the so-called loyalty pledge, Gloria, because it seems like all three GOP candidates are dumping it. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think nominating Donald Trump would be an absolute train wreck. I think it would hand the general election to Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: Honestly, he doesn't have to support me. I'm not asking for his support. I want the people's support.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

COOPER: Do you continue to pledge whoever the Republican nominee is?

TRUMP: No. I don't anymore.

COOPER: You don't?

TRUMP: No, we'll see who it is.

COOPER: You won't promise to support the Republican nominee?

TRUMP: He was essentially saying the same thing.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I got to see what happens. If the nominee is somebody that I think is really hurting the country and dividing the country, I can't stand behind them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Gloria, whatever you think of this pledge, whatever you thought about it from the beginning, this certainly puts the RNC in a tough spot, doesn't it?

BORGER: It does.

And the RNC is saying, we're sure that our candidates are going to unite behind the eventual nominee, which is what you would expect the RNC to say. I'm not so sure about that.

I think it looks like this is going into a contested convention if Donald Trump doesn't get to the magic number before the convention in July. And if it heads into a contested convention, the question is, how does the party come out of it?

And right now, I don't see the party coming out of it any more united than it is going into it, particularly since you saw those candidates last night with Anderson refusing to support each other, in so many words. And that's what it was -- it was very clear to me.

I mean, Ted Cruz believes his wife has been maligned. You know, these are kind of personal issues that Trump and Cruz have together. And Kasich has said that he disagrees with Donald Trump fundamentally on everything from foreign policy to the question of Corey Lewandowski.

So it's very difficult. You know, these aren't just spats. These are kind of serious personal policy disputes as well.

BROWN: And, Ryan, I want to get your thoughts on this notion that they're backing away from the loyalty pledge, before we move on.

WILLIAMS: Look, I think it's a difficult situation that Ted Cruz and John Kasich are in. Donald Trump is not someone who they just have policy disagreements on. He's someone who has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't deserve to be president. He is someone who will not back away from the KKK when asked about it.

He's someone who retweets quotes from Benito Mussolini. He is someone who condones a campaign manager who strikes a woman. He's gone beyond the pale really this cycle of what is acceptable from a nominee of our party. If he does become the nominee, I think that's going to raise a lot of concerns with not just Ted Cruz and John Kasich, but traditional Republican primary voters who have real problems with Donald Trump's character and lack of -- complete lack of integrity.

BROWN: Terra?

GRANT: It's amazing to me. This is why Donald Trump has the following that he has, folks just like Ryan, with that same rhetoric, oh, he lacks character. He lacks this. He lacks that.

WILLIAMS: He lies. Everything he says is a lie. You even admitted that about two minutes ago, that he just lies like the other candidates lie.

GRANT: No.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He likes all the time. He's incapable of telling the truth. And people should not tolerate that.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Let's hear what Terra has to say.

GRANT: Are you saying, Ryan, that all of the candidates across the board, Hillary Clinton to -- and what the RNC is going to do...

(CROSSTALK)

[15:10:03]

WILLIAMS: Hillary Clinton is also a liar, just like Donald Trump.

GRANT: And what's going to happen is, it's going to get Hillary Clinton elected.

Right now, the Republican Party is going to get Hillary Clinton elected because of the nonsense...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Donald Trump is going to get Hillary Clinton elected by being an unelectable general election candidate, 65 percent disapproval ratings. He's unelectable. He's a loser.

GRANT: How can Hillary Clinton do the things that she has done, especially in Benghazi, and still, still all the lies that she has told, the lies...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Hillary Clinton is a bad candidate, but Donald Trump is a much worse candidate.

BROWN: OK. All right, guys, stand by.

We're going to continue this discussion. But I have to mention that we're just getting some remarks in by Donald Trump, suggesting that women may have to face punishment if they get an abortion. We're going to discuss that right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Donald Trump in Wisconsin about to speak live there, huge crowd there in Appleton, Wisconsin. We will be keeping an eye on that.

In the meantime, we want to bring our panel back, as we have a lot to discuss.

Gloria, a lot of news came out of that town hall last night, including Donald Trump's response to what the basic, most critical functions of the federal government are. Let's take a listen to that.

[15:15:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So in terms of federal government role, you're saying security, but you also say health care and education should be provided by the federal government?

TRUMP: Well, those are two of the things. Yes, sure. I mean, there are obviously many things, housing, providing great neighborhoods...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But aren't you against the federal government's involvement in education? Don't you want it to devolve to states?

TRUMP: I want it to go to state, yes, absolutely.

COOPER: And federal health care run by the federal government?

TRUMP: Health care -- we need health care for our people. We need a good -- Obamacare is a disaster. It's proven to be...

COOPER: But is that something the federal government should be doing? TRUMP:

TRUMP: The government can lead it, but it should be privately done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Gloria, some may hear that, and think this sounds like a Democrat's platform. BORGER: That's -- this is what Ted Cruz and before him Jeb Bush had been saying to Republicans, which is that Donald Trump is not a real conservative.

When you look at conservative orthodoxy, Obamacare, big government program, big government health care, Common Core is something that lots of Republicans, including Ted Cruz, don't like because they think it's manipulated by the federal government.

And so I think it would give conservatives more reason to say, look, he's not one of us. But having said that, that is not why people are supporting Donald Trump. They're not supporting him because they think he's a conservative. They're supporting him because they think he's somebody who tells it like it is and who can get things down.

And the notion of how he stands on one particular domestic policy issue doesn't seem to sway anybody. At least it hasn't so far in these Republican primaries.

BROWN: All right, and let's talk about Muslim neighborhoods because, Ryan, that clearly was a hot topic at last night's Republican town hall. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Listen, if you want to stop radical Islamic terrorism, the answer isn't to go hang out in random neighborhoods. It is instead to focus on communities where radicalization is a risk.

KASICH: We're not going to police Muslim neighborhoods. We can't afford polarization of people who are in the civilized world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Ryan, clearly, Cruz and Kasich gave two very different answers.

WILLIAMS: They gave different answers. I think there's a concern right now obviously about terrorism and foreign affairs.

And I think Senator Cruz is trying to address that, that concern. Donald Trump, of course, came out with his Muslim ban, which went way too far, which is not legal, is inappropriate, but it is a concern amongst Republican primary voters. And I think that Ted Cruz is trying to speak to their concerns and talk about ways to ensure that our country is safe.

BROWN: Terra, I want to get your reaction on our Anderson Cooper calling out Donald Trump. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: You retweeted an unflattering picture of her next to a picture of your wife.

TRUMP: I thought it was a nice picture of Heidi. I thought it was fine.

COOPER: Come on.

TRUMP: I thought it was fine. She's a pretty woman.

COOPER: You're running for president of the United States.

TRUMP: Excuse me. I didn't start it. I didn't start it.

COOPER: But, sir, with all due respect, that's the argument of 5- year-old.

TRUMP: I didn't start it. No, it's not.

COOPER: The argument of a 5-year-old is, he started it.

TRUMP: You would say that. That's the problem with our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so, Terra, do you agree? Does Trump need to tone it down at all?

GRANT: Absolutely not.

Donald Trump, we support Donald Trump because of exactly what he said. Did I think Anderson Cooper was needling him way more than he needled any other candidate last night? Absolutely. And so do a lot of people.

Even Ted Cruz supporters that I have spoken with today, John Kasich supporters that I have spoken with today, they thought the same thing. They thought Anderson Cooper may have hit below the belt with the 5- year-old comment. How are you going to call a presidential candidate like he's acting like a 5-year-old?

BROWN: All right.

BORGER: Well, let me defend my colleague Anderson Cooper here, because I think anyone who has been a mother and has a 5-year-old or has been around 5-year-olds knows that the phrase he started it is kind of something we're used to hearing.

I don't think Anderson meant it in any detrimental way. He just kind of quizzically asked, wait a minute, is that an answer that a presidential candidate ought to be giving? And he said, you sound like a 5-year-old. I thought it was a natural kind of response to it. And I don't think he meant to insult Donald Trump in any way, shape, or form.

BROWN: I don't think he meant to insult him.

Our panel, thank you very much for those comments.

Jim Acosta right now, we're going to go to him because he is live at a Donald Trump rally in Appleton, Wisconsin -- Jim. JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pam.

That's right. Donald Trump has just started speaking here at this rally in Appleton, Wisconsin, just a few days from the Wisconsin primary. And an issue that is very important to Republicans in the state, a lot of Catholic voters on the Republican side in the state is the issue of abortion.

Donald Trump did an interview with MSNBC earlier today. Portions of that are now being released. And during one portion of this interview that's been released, Donald Trump talks about the prospect of punishing women who receive abortions.

So let's play a little bit of that clip and talk about it on the other side.

[15:20:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: Could a woman be punished for having an abortion?

TRUMP: Look...

MATTHEWS: This is not something you can dodge. If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. Should abortion be punished?

TRUMP: Well, people in certain parts of the Republican Party and conservative Republicans would say, yes, they should be punished.

MATTHEWS: How about you?

TRUMP: I would say that it's a very serious problem. And it's a problem that we have to decide on. It's very...

MATTHEWS: But you're for banning it.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, wait, are you going to say put them in jail? Is that the punishment?

MATTHEWS: Well, no, but I'm asking you because you say you want to ban it. What does that mean?

TRUMP: I am against -- I'm pro-life, yes.

MATTHEWS: What does ban -- how do you ban abortion? How do you actually do it?

TRUMP: Well, you will go back to a position like they had, where people will perhaps go to illegal places.

MATTHEWS: Yes. TRUMP: But you have to ban it.

MATTHEWS: You ban it and they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Are you Catholic?

MATTHEWS: Yes. I think...

TRUMP: And how do you feel about the Catholic Church's position?

MATTHEWS: Well, I accept the teaching authority of my church on moral issues.

TRUMP: But do you know their position on abortion?

MATTHEWS: Yes, I do.

TRUMP: And do you concur with that position?

MATTHEWS: I concur with their moral position, but legally...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Here's my problem with it.

TRUMP: No, but let me ask you, but what do you say about...

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: It's not funny.

TRUMP: ... your church? Yes, it's really not funny. What do you say about your church? They're very, very...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: The churches make their moral judgments. But you running for president of the United States will be chief executive of the United States. Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes. There has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents, 10 years, what?

TRUMP: I don't know. That, I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Well, why not?

TRUMP: I don't know.

MATTHEWS: You take positions on everything else.

TRUMP: I find -- I do take positions on everything else. It's a very complicated position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, a couple things on this.

As you know, Pam, early on, Donald Trump was very much pro-choice. There are clips of Donald Trump describing himself as pro-choice. That has been used in ads against Donald Trump during the course of this campaign. This is a pretty hard-line position, opposed to abortion, that Donald Trump is talking about here.

And it comes as there's a fresh poll out here in Wisconsin that shows Ted Cruz with a pretty healthy lead over Donald Trump, but Ted Cruz, as you know, has a strong base of support among Christian conservatives.

And we should point out, in just the last several minutes, Hillary Clinton has weighed in on what Donald Trump said in that interview. She retweeted an NBC embed's tweet about what Donald Trump said in that interview about abortion, and Hillary Clinton adding, "Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, horrific and telling," and it's signed "H," which means it's a tweet from Hillary Clinton.

So, it sounds like, even though we have been talking about Corey Lewandowski and that simple battery charge down in Florida over the last 24 to 48 hours, there's a fresh topic on this campaign trail, no question about it, Donald Trump taking a very hard-line position when it comes to abortion -- Pam.

BROWN: Yes, all this, as you point out, coming in the backdrop of Donald Trump being under scrutiny for the comments he's made about women recently and this controversy surrounding Corey Lewandowski.

All right, we're going to some talk more about this after this break. Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:30]

BROWN: Right now, Donald Trump, as we see, is holding his second rally of the day in Wisconsin. Let's take a listen for a moment.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

TRUMP: Now, I thought he was talking about since World War II. I think he was talking about like ever. And that's pretty sad. We're going to change that. And, you know, in many respects, it's the cheapest single thing we can

do. We're going to have a strong military, so that nobody can mess around with us, nobody.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: And I see some great vets back here. We are going to take care of our vets, OK? We're going to take care of our vets, fellows.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We don't take care of our vets. Our vets are our great people. And we don't take care of our vets, and we're going to. Our vets are treated worse in many cases than illegal immigrants. They come in here, they get more benefits than the vets. And those days are over. It's over.

It's part of the buildup of the military.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: So I see all these good-looking guys back here. How many vets do we have? Raise your hand. Don't even stand up. Raise -- that's good, that's beautiful. We have -- how many vets do we have in the audience generally? We got a lot of vets.

And the vets are being -- they're being humiliated by the way we take care of them. So, that's going to end. You have seen my plan, I assume. You have seen my plan in terms of health care and what's going to happen with the vets. It's going to be something that -- it's not even a question of the money.

You look at Phoenix, Arizona, where, by the way, I have tremendous support, including from Sheriff Joe. Do we love Sheriff Joe?

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: will tell you, Sheriff Joe doesn't mess around, because when we went to Phoenix, had 21,000 people right near Phoenix, and Sheriff Joe has the border. And, boy, he's tough with his tents and the whole deal.

And we had a lot of protesters. We had like 200 protesters. And they were very loud and very, you know, boisterous. And he said, no, this isn't going to happen. And, you know, he walks right up to them. He walks right up. He looks them in the eye. And they're just like -- they're quiet. He's an unbelievable guy.

So, Sheriff Joe, they put their cars. We had 21,000 people, and the cars couldn't get through because they did a blockade of cars on the highway. So, these cars couldn't get through. So, they were being delayed tremendously and there were tremendous traffic jams all the way back to Phoenix.

And Sheriff Joe looked at it. He said, move those cars. They didn't move them. They chained themselves to the cars. They went -- he had his guys with chain cutters just walked right up, boom, boom, boom. They put three or five in jail.

Everybody dispersed. They moved those cars. I'm telling you, in five minutes, that road flowed. It was so beautiful to watch. You saw that, right?