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Donald Trump On The Attack After Loss In Wisconsin; Protesters In Standoff Outside Trump Rally; Cruz In New York State Of Mind; Cruz: Wisconsin Voters "Resoundingly Rejected" Trump; The GOP Fight Ahead; Tension Builds Ahead Of CNN Democratic Debate; Sanders Rally In Philadelphia Tonight; Massive Crows At Sanders Rally In Philadelphia; Anderson And His Mom, Gloria Vanderbilt. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 6, 2016 - 20:00   ET



[20:00:05] JOHN BERMAN, CNN GUEST HOST: Good evening. John Berman here in for Anderson tonight.

Can the Donald take a bumping and keep on trumping? One thing is for sure, a night after the pummeling he took in Wisconsin at the hands of Ted Cruz, he can sure draw a crowd. Donald Trump just finished speaking in Bethpage on New York's Long Island in front of a pretty big audience inside and plenty of protesters outside. For the first time, he spoke about Senator Cruz since losing to him last night.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, lying Ted Cruz came today. He couldn't draw 100 people, 100 people. I'm telling you, in fact it was a big headline today in "the New York Post." He couldn't draw 100 people. Now do you remember -- do you remember -- do you remember during the debate when he started lecturing me on New York values, like we're no good. Like we're no good. And I started talking to him about the world trade center, the bravery, the incredible bravery of everybody. Our police, our firemen, our -- better believe it. Better believe it.

So I looked at him and started talking about our incredible police, our incredible firefighters. Our incredible people. Our unbelievable construction workers. Who could have done that? Who could have rebuilt that hole? There was never anything like it in this country. The worst attack in the history of the United States. The bravery that we've shown was incredible. We all lived through it. We all know people that died. And I've got this guy standing over there looking at me talking about New York values with scorn in his face, with hatred of New York. So, folks, I think you can forget about him. Forget about him.

CROWD: Lying Ted! Lying Ted!

TRUMP: He is lying Ted. You know, I came up with the idea but you have to spell it right. It is l-y-i-n-apostrophe. Lying Ted. The bible held high, he puts it down and then he lies. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Again, that was a few minutes ago in Bethpage, New York. And a few minutes after that, Donald Trump launch into a kind of parable about immigration especially from Syria. He did a dramatic reading of the 1968 Al Wilson song, "the Snake."


TRUMP: So here's a story. You think of this in terms of the people coming into the country especially coming in from Syria. We don't know where they are, we don't know who they are, we don't know how they're getting in. They're all over the place. Believe me. It's going to be a problem. You think of this, all right? This is called the snake. On her way to work one morning, down the path along the lake, a tenderhearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake. His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew. Well, she cried, I'll take you in, and I'll take care of you. Take me in, oh, tender woman. Take me in for heaven sake. Take me in tender woman. Beside the broken snake. She wrapped him up all cozy in a curvature of silk and then laid him by the fireside with some honey and some milk. Now she hurried home from work that night as soon as she arrived, she found that pretty snake she'd taken in finally, finally had been revived. Take me in oh, tender woman. Take me in for heaven sake. Take me in oh, tender woman beside the broken snake.

Now she clutched him to her bosom. You're so beautiful, she cried. But if I hadn't brought you in by now, heavens you might have died. Now she stroked his pretty skin and then she kissed him and held him tight. But instead of saying thank you, that snake gave her a vicious bite. Take me in oh, tender woman. Take me in for tender sake. Take me in oh, tender woman sigh the broken snake.

I save you, cried the woman and you bit me heaven's why. You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die. Oh, shut up, silly woman, said the reptile with a grin. You damn well knew I was a snake before you took me in.


[20:05:40] BERMAN: Inside the house in Bethpage, New York, speaking to a packed crowd. 10,000-plus inside. We're seeing on the screen outside that's event happening right now. There are protests going on. There's been an enormous law enforcement presence outside that's area for many hours right now. And the protesters are penned in. That's going on. We are going to check in with them in just a moment.

But first, I want to go to CNN's Sara Murray inside the Trump event in Long Island.

Sara, give us a sense of the energy inside because Donald Trump sure seemed into it tonight.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, John. If Donald Trump was upset about losing Wisconsin, he certainly wasn't letting on. He seemed to very energetic. And as saw it there in his dramatic reading of "the snake." He was really into it. And this is really felt like a hometown crowd. They were responsive to him. They were screaming, cheering for him throughout his speech. And it's worth noting about 10,000 people inside per the fire Marshall. They actually shut the doors and didn't let the entire crowd in. So certainly feels like here in the room like the polls are right and Donald Trump has an edge in his home state, John.

BERMAN: And the crowd did seem to eat it up inside as we were watching from here.

The reason we were asking, Sara, is because Donald Trump was quiet all day, extremely quiet for Donald Trump. Mostly kept off twitter. We didn't hear phone interview after pho interview. He kept a low profile. So, you know, there was a question. Is that going to be some kind of different Trump we might see?

MURRAY: Yes, I think that was kind of a rare day for Donald Trump. Did not see him popping up all over the place. He is dealing with a little bit of internal campaign turmoil. Right now I think he spent part of the day dealing with that.

But he only came out on this stump kind of getting back to basics, knowing he wanted to go hard after Ted Cruz. Not really wanting to, you know, rebel or sort of sit around and stew in this Wisconsin loss. But you go back and hit Cruz hard and you heard him try to turn that New York values line that Ted Cruz rolled out back against him. And I think we are going to hear a lot more about that in the run-up to the New York primary, john.

BERMAN: I expect we will. Sara Murray, inside the Bethpage, thanks so much.

Sara mentioned campaign turmoil, perhaps a shake-up. Those are words being tossed around. We have new information on that. We'll get to that in a little bit.

But first, let's go outside that's event where we're seeing these protests right now. CNN's Sara Ganim is there.

Sara, can you give us a sense of what's going on?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, John. They've been out here for about an hour. You could see on this side of the crowd are pro-Trump supporters. And the other side anti-Trump protesters. And they mostly have just been exchanging chants. About 100 people on each side. The anti-Trump protesters saying stop the hate and the other side chanting things like build that wall.

Now, you can see in the middle there is quite a line of police. There are massive police units here as well. There haven't been any arrests that we have been able to see or any clashes -- physical clashes between the two sets of protesters. Just verbal exchanges that have gotten a little rowdy at times but nothing violent. Nothing that we have seen at previous protests of this sort here on Long Island tonight. This is something that's been going on for about an hour. Dissipating at times and then getting back up and people, you know, chanting back and forth exchanging chants with one another.

But as I said, police have seemed to have control over the situation. They are not letting anything get violent. People for the most part are staying within the protest pens. They're staying in their area. And there's not a ton of people here, but there are enough to cause police some concern. They're obviously here. They're obviously monitoring - John.

BERMAN: We can see that law enforcement presence to be sure. There are a lot of cops on the streets right now outside the event, Sara. And as you said, there's a counter protest too. And by that, I mean, there are Trump supporters there protesting against the protesters. And so, their numbers growing as the event is breaking up? Are they leaving this event and coming to see the protests?

GANIM: That's an interesting question, John because the event is actually not really that close. You have to walk about a half a mile, a quarter, three-quarters of a mile to get to the actual event. So earlier in the evening we saw people walking past the protesters. And nothing was provoking anyone at that point. They were simply just walking to the event. Now, when they exit, we'll be watching to see if that's a different story.

The people who showed up here who were the Trump supporters, the reason that this got lively because it wasn't before this group showed up, but the reason it got lively, it seemed to be people who didn't make it into the event on time or maybe didn't have tickets or were never going in the first place. When they set up kind of across the police line from the anti-Trump protesters, that's when we started to see it get a little more rowdy, John.

[20:10:37] BERMAN: All right. We are going to keep our eye on this. Sarah Ganim on Long Island right now watching these protests and counter-protests. Sara tells us that the police there have it firmly in hand. There has been no violence of any kind that she has seen. But we will keep our eyes on it because obviously, you know, emotions do run high at these events.

Let's talk about what we saw tonight. The first Donald Trump event since his loss in Wisconsin. Joining us former Romney presidential campaign strategist Stuart Stevens, also former South Carolina Republican Party chairman Katon Dawson. Neither, fair to say, Trump supporters. Kayleigh McEnany, however, is. She is also a CNN political commentator. With us as well, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

And Gloria, we watched that Donald Trump event, and we were wondering, what Donald Trump would we see? Is there such a thing as a chastened Donald Trump after a pretty bad loss in Wisconsin?


BERMAN: The answer seems to be no.

BORGER: No, and you know, he went back to sort of Donald Trump 101. He is now got one candidate that he is taking aim at. And it's very clear to me he is going to treat Ted Cruz like some kind of alien in the state of New York. Who is this guy who talked about New York values? What does he know about us? You know, this is Donald Trump's home turf. And he is going to make Ted Cruz seem as strange as he possibly can to New Yorkers.

And, you know, it's clear, Trump has a lot of appeal in urban areas. You know, Cruz might be heading in upstate. But Donald Trump is clearly saying he is not one of us. And he believes and his campaign believes that what happened in Wisconsin stays in Wisconsin. And has absolutely nothing to do with New York.

BERMAN: You are looking at, by the way, pictures on the right of Donald Trump inside that event on Long Island. He is still signing posters. Meeting with supporters. There were more than 10,000, we think, inside.

On the left, you are seeing a small gathering of protesters and counter protesters. You know, Stuart Stevens, you heard Gloria say that he was going to try to make, Donald Trump, going to make Ted Cruz seem like an outsider. He really did more than that. He said that Ted Cruz hates us. Us, being New Yorkers. Do you think that's an effective strategy in New York? You've run campaigns here.

STUART STEVENS, FORMER ROMNEY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: Yes. I think that is a good strategy for Donald Trump. Listen. He has to win New York by a big margin. He has to get north of that 50 percent so that he will be able to take those delegates and also symbolically.

But, look, I mean, that guy up there reading, you know, "the snake," Al Wilson, this is a person running for president of the United States? This is someone you want to give command authority to? It's like some sort of deranged performance piece that has absolutely nothing to do with being commander in-chief or being the most important person in the free world.

Donald Trump is good at one thing. He's a grievance monger. All those who feel slighted, that moment we didn't get what we should have, he's the guy that's going to settle the score. That's clearly what he's playing to here. But as we have seen nationally, it's just not enough to build a coalition to win a national election.

BERMAN: Kayleigh, what's your take on what you saw tonight? And again, we did see some polls leading into this event tonight where Donald Trump is out ahead here in New York by quite a bit. That said, those polls were taken before what happened in Wisconsin. So the Wisconsin loss hasn't settled in, but 52 percent is pretty good.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. I disagree with Stuart because here is the thing. Donald Trump is winning across the nation. He won the southeast. Ted Cruz who was supposed to win the southeast did not even take a single state in the southeast. Likewise he is domineering the northeast. Ted Cruz won Maine but that seems to have been an outlier. So you see Donald Trump winning in diverse locations.

And I think Gloria is right. He's going to try to paint Ted Cruz as an outsider with the New York values comment. I think that's very important. He's going to hammer home the fact this is someone that thinks we live by our own set of rules, our own set of values. And Ted Cruz tried to dial that back today and said by New York values I meant liberal values but if he meant liberal values he would have said liberal values. What was happening is Ted Cruz was making a calculation saying I don't need New York. I'm going to win in the southeast. I can lose the northeast. But that was a bad miscalculation because Ted Cruz did not --

BERMAN: He said New York values means Anthony Weiner, Elliot Spitzer (INAUDIBLE). They were interesting. We will get to that a little bit.

Kayleigh, Stuart, Katon, we are going to get to you, too. Gloria, standby. We are going to pick up this conversation after a quick break.

Also ahead, Ted Cruz trying to carry his momentum into tough territory. He spent the day in the Bronx.

Later, the growing war of words between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.


[20:19:05] BERMAN: All right, we are back. A pretty large group, growing group of Trump supporters and a growing group of Trump protesters, they are outside an event in Bethpage on Long Island, the site where Donald Trump just finished speaking. There was a crowd inside of about 10,000 listening to Donald Trump. They are now making their way out. The situation appears to be getting a little more intense. We want to go back to Sarah gamin who is on the scene right now.

Sara, what's going on?

GANIM: Hey, there, John. Yes, you're right. So as the supporters, the Trump supporters who were at the rally began to exit and they had to walk past this group of supporters, and you can see what's happening here. They began to chant at each other. Police, obviously, moved their formation to block, to create a block in between the protesters and the supporters.

Now as I said before, so far nothing violent. And we haven't noticed police arrest anyone. But it certainly is getting rowdy at times causing police to adjust. The protesters are moving about half dl halfway down a block in order to be closer to these people who attended the rally as they exit.

They had been earlier in the night clashing with supporters who never went into the rally. They were exchanging chants such as stop the hate and build the wall. Now as this rally exits, and we know it was a full house. You are seeing these people begin to shift their focus to the people who are exiting -- John.

[20:20:34] BERMAN: And again, Sara, you have been there for a while. Law enforcement has been there for a long, long time. No arrests that you've seen. Did law enforcement give you any sense of how much of this they'll be willing to take before they do try to put a stop to it?

GANIM: You know, they brought in some floodlights, John. And they certainly adjusted their formation. They have mounted police here. There was a moment about a half hour ago where it got pretty intense where it looked like something was happening that they were beginning to get too close to each other. And police got a little nervous. They moved in to separate the two groups that before had been separated by these metal barricades. Police began to form a line to keep them away from each other physically.

But this is Nassau county police. They've been here all evening and they have been keeping control over the crowds. As I said, I didn't see them have to arrest anyone. They just kept them from each other - John.

BERMAN: OK, Sara. Sara Ganim in Bethpage on Long Island. We are going to keep watching this. Keep our eye on it. Sara said she has seen no violence as of now. No arrests as of now. But obviously, tensions are pretty high so we will keep on watching that.

In the meantime, we are going to bring back our panel to talk about the politics of the day. Gloria Borger, Stuart Stevens, Katon Dawson, Kayleigh McEnany.

Katon, I want to start with you, former Republican chair in South Carolina, a lot of the talk today was about the idea of turmoil inside the Trump campaign. His campaign manager Corey Lewandowski in trouble. Might there be some layering, some new personnel.

Paul Manafort, a man who we believe has been brought in to run the delegate operation for Donald Trump. He apparently had a meeting at Trump headquarters today. Do you think a shakeup is in order?

KATON DAWSON, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN: Well, John, a lot of times I have been on a couple of staffs, Newt Gingrich, Ron Perry, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and you do have growing pains and concerns and mix-up. But Trump is a loyal guy. I think they'll shake up some responsibilities. Certainly to concern themselves with delegates and the convention is the right thing.

Trump is now shoved all his chips in New York. He's got to have a big win there to get close to the magic number. I'm talking to people all over the country that are listening and watching. They are open to the process of the Republican national convention, picking a nominee. I would contend that Trump is going to have to get to that number.

These are 2400 people coming from around the country, John, that the first thing they are concerned with are four Supreme Court justices. They want a winner unlike some of the primaries that you are seeing all over the country.

And, third, they are going to take this very seriously when they meet in Cleveland. And they're going to write new rules for the convention about a week and a half out. And we will see what happens.

BERMAN: And they are going to be very, very popular people for the next several months as all the campaigns reach out to them.

Stuart Stevens, you run of a lot of campaigns. You have been part of a lot of campaigns. Many successful. A few not. You've been part of campaigns where there were shakeups or rumored shakeups. Do you see things in the Trump campaign -- I know you're not a fan of Donald Trump, his politics, his rhetoric what not, but in terms of how this campaign is being run. Do you see specific things they could start doing differently now that would make things different?

STEVENS: Well, look. Running for president is a unique experience unlike any other endeavor which is why you see so many people run, lose and then run again. Donald Trump doesn't have a team that this (INAUDIBLE) that can win a national campaign to take it to the White House. To bring in more senior people like Paul Manafort is smart. They should. They have to elevate this.

Listen, we have shown before that Republicans will vote for people who are unelectable in multicandidate fields, even though it's not necessarily in the party's best interest. We saw it with Todd Akin. We saw it with Rudolf Murdock in Indiana. The question is, you know, why hasn't this happened on a national level? It could be happening with Trump.

But to be able to reach out to other people, to get a larger base of support, you know, politics is about addition, not subtraction. And I think someone like Paul Manafort, some of these more senior people, you know, they have been part of a broader coalition and what it takes to build that. And you have to approach it humbly.

You know, one thing about running for president, you can enter it humbly or not, but you're going to leave it humbly, even if you win. Because it is such a demanding, grueling process. And that goes to everybody working on the campaign.

[20:25:16] BERMAN: Kayleigh, you know, Stuart just talked about the ability to grow support for a candidate. One of the things about Wisconsin, which Donald Trump lost by a lot, was that he probably hit a reasonable number for Donald Trump, 35 percent. Not an awful number for Donald Trump but he didn't grow it, you know. That's where he has been getting a lot of pace. And he wasn't being able to grow it. How can he do that?

MCENANY: I think he has shown he has a broad coalition, you know. Like I mentioned before, he has won in the southeast, he has won in the northeast. And Donald Trump, to his, I guess, benefit, has tried to step forward to the establishment. He stepped forward and tried to meet with Paul Ryan. When was in DNC, he hosted a meeting for political figures to try to bring people into the fold. But what we have seen is he takes a step forward, the establishment takes ten steps back. There's a never Trump movement. They don't want to see Trump. No matter what he does, they are going to come up against him. So you know, this isn't Donald Trump isolating people. It's him trying to take a step forward and people in the never Trump movement trying to take a step back.

BERMAN: The question is do they have staff to help and take the step forward. More on that in a bit guys. Thank you very much.

Just ahead, Ted Cruz on Donald Trump's home turf here in New York. He's aiming to capitalize on his victory in Wisconsin. Can he do it?

Also we're going to take you to a Bernie Sanders rally now under way or getting under way very shortly. You can see live pictures right now in Philadelphia. We are going to look at how his win last night is propelling that campaign forward into next week's big CNN Democratic debate.


[20:30:33] BERMAN: All right, the breaking news tonight -- protesters, pro-Donald Trump protesters, anti-Donald Trump protesters squaring off at a rally outside an event where the candidate just finished up a few minutes ago that's in Bethpage in New York's Long Island. They were men in largely kept separated by a heavy police presence.

Plus, going on Ted Cruz he is in Trump territory touring a months factory tomorrow in Brooklyn looking for votes and perhaps he have he comment. He campaigned today in the Bronx where CNN's Sunlen Serfaty had a chance to speak with him. She joins us now, Sunlen what did Senator Cruz have to say about the state of his campaign today?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well John, he's clearly trying to capitalize on his Wisconsin win, and really bring some of that momentum from Wisconsin here into far less territories like New York. I talked to the Senator today as he was campaigning in the Bronx tonight, asked him about that Trump statement last night after his Wisconsin loss where he basically says that Senator Cruz is a Trojan horse that's being used by party bosses.

Well Senator Cruz shot right back to that and he rather sarcastically answered with this saying Donald Trump can always be counted on and take the high road as what we said, and to demonstrate class. And later went on to say, you know, Donald Trump always gets angry when voters reject him. And John this was something, this is the word he kept using, reject, reject. Surely trying to paint the picture of Donald Trump's campaign as one being in a free-fall. His in contrast trying to paint that as one on the rise. John?

BERMAN: All right, Sara, just a few minutes ago we heard Donald Trump bring up the issue of New York values. Ted Cruz has accused Donald Trump of having New York values. Trump responded tonight. But Cruz kept his foot on the gas on that today.

SERFATY: That's right and this was interesting today. At this Bronx visit today where Senator Cruz was asked about that and asked to kind of clarify those remarks. Of course, those remarks were made by Senator Cruz months ago when he wasn't maybe anticipating being campaigning here in New York. Now he's trying to court these New York voters. So he was asked to -- offered something of an explanation or redefinition of the term New York values. He said what I meant was liberal Democratic values and offering up some names like Eliot Spitzer and Anthony Weiner, of people where he pointed to as represent those values. He says the voters here know exactly what I'm talking about, but, of course, this likely will continue to haunt him as he campaigns here in New York. That primary less than two weeks away. John?

BERMAN: All right Sunlen Serfaty for us, thank so much.

CNN chief national correspondent and "Inside Politics" anchor John King has more now on what comes next by the numbers. John, New York is complicated, 95 delegates at stake. You know, the Trump team wants all of them. Is that realistic?

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he's leading by more than 50 percent in the statewide polls right now, John, so yes but that's not enough. Winning state wide 51 percent doesn't do it. There are 27 races within the one race if you will, 27 Congressional districts to get those 95 delegates. And it's a very diverse state and a very diverse electorate these Republicans will be seeking.

Let's take a look two of these districts. This one's up by Buffalo, the 27th district, from the Buffalo suburbs to the Rochester suburbs, 58 percent urban, 94 percent white. Look how big it is. Nearly 4,000 square miles, 27 percent have college degrees, median income about $55,000.

Now where you are tonight, New York City, look it Congressional district 12, right, it's -- includes the upper east side of Manhattan, the 100 percent urban, 76 percent whites, so more diverse. Look at that 15 square miles compared to nearly 4,000 square miles. Nearly 70 percent of college degrees, median income much more affiliate, it is 2,000.

So if you are campaigning here they might want to know about Wall Street and things like that, if you're campaigning here, they want to know where the manufacturing jobs go. So over the next two weeks, this is a fascinating challenge for these candidates, very diverse state.

BERMAN: Different worlds almost. John King, what does New York mean in the quest for the big number, 1,237, the number of delegates that would take to win at the convention?

KING: It could mean almost everything, because Donald Trump has a very narrow window and a springboard out of his home state is critical. Let me show you what I mean, Trump starts today at about 758. The magic number is 1,237. Most people think he can't get their, his team thinks is that small window.

So let me give you one scenario, Donald Trump wins New York but Ted Cruz and John Kasich knock him down and he gets only about 44, so let -- fewer than half of the delegates. Let's say Kasich comes in second win some Congressional districts Cruz comes in third. Under this scenario, Trump just cracks 800, makes it almost impossible, almost impossible to get to 1,237.

[20:35:04] Let me give you a different scenario. Donald Trump actually does a little better and he gets almost 70 percent or roughly 70 percent of those delegates. And let's say Kasich comes in second and Cruz comes in third, that's a bigger win for Trump. And it will help a lot, because it starts to get him a little bit closer. I'll do this quickly for you. We're being very generous to Trump in the rest of this contest in the east, in the mid-atlantic. We give them to Trump by pretty healthy margins. Out west we give Ted Cruz the states he's won.

In this scenario I give Cruz Indiana but just narrowly over Trump, that will lead California John, look where Trump is at 1,069, even with a big win in California, it's 172 delegates. Even getting most of them at 120, Donald Trump is still short. That leaves him at 1,189 at least he had 1,189.

So his team thinks the closer you get to 12 -- if you can't get to 1,237, get to 1,200, you can the wrangle the last 30 or so, but if they're well short of 1,200, well Donald Trump's team thinks his first best and perhaps only chance is that first ballot, John. So as close as they can get to that line, the better.

BERMAN: Yeah, that margin is so, so crucial. John King, thank you so much.

Up next, the Democrats tensions rising. A lot at stake. We're going to take you to a Bernie Sanders event expected to start any minute in Philadelphia.


BERMAN: All right, tensions building ahead of next week's Democratic debate right here on CNN. After losing Wisconsin last night, Hillary Clinton is piling on Bernie Sanders, accusing him of prioritizing gun manufacturers rights over the parents of the children killed at Sandy Hook.

[20:40:11] When CBS News correspondent Nancy Cordes asked him about it tonight, Senator Sanders didn't hold back.


BERNIE SANDERS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We all are aware of what happened in Sandy Hook. It's a tragedy beyond comprehension. But maybe Secretary Clinton might want to apologize to the families who lost their loved ones in Iraq.


BERMAN: Quick history lesson right now, Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war in 2002 when she served in the U.S. Senate. Back to 2016 right now, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders are focused on Pennsylvania today. A key state up for grabs later this month. Secretary Clinton spoke a short time ago at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. And right now Senator Sanders is in Philadelphia at Temple University. We have some live pictures right now of this event. We have -- there we go. We're waiting for him to speak. A very, very large crowd there.

Our Brianna Keilar is there. She joins us. Brianna, you know, Senator Sanders, I think, thinks he has the wind at his back after last night in Wisconsin. What's the message tonight?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight the message as we've heard him say all along, I expect will be momentum, momentum. That he has the momentum and he's hoping that's pushes him forward toward the New York primary, toward the Pennsylvania primary. Both of these considered must-wins for Bernie Sanders if he is going to have a pathway to the White House.

You see the crowd here, John, it's pretty big. It's huge. It's about 10,000 people who fit into this stadium here. And Bernie Sanders is running late in part or maybe entirely because he actually was down the street talking to the overflow crowd which was also thousands more people because this is a crowd that was just a line just wrapped really around several blocks trying to get into this auditorium in Temple University for hours and hours.

But yeah as you said, Pennsylvania very important to Bernie Sanders, clearly to Hillary Clinton. Also we're noting that Bill Clinton will be in the state tomorrow. They both want a really good shot at this delegate rich state.

BERMAN: All right, Brianna Keilar for us in Philadelphia at the Bernie Sanders event. That we're going to keep our eye on that.

Joining us is CNN political commentator Van Jones, a former Obama administration official, Bakari Sellers, a Clinton supporter and former South Carolina State House member, and Bill Press, he supports Bernie Sanders, he's also a talk radio host and author of "Buyers Remorse, How Obama Let Progressives Down."

And Van, you're here with me right now, I want you to respond to something we just heard from Bernie Sanders. Nancy Cordes of CBS asked Senator Sanders to respond to a call from a family member of a victim of Sandy Hook saying, that Bernie Sanders should apologize to the victims of Sandy Hook for his position on guns.

Senator Sanders responded to Nancy, that maybe Hillary Clinton should apologize to families of, you know, who -- of people who died in the Iraq war. That's pretty strong rhetoric.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, he's punching back, listen, he had his best day and worst day all together. He had this great victory in Wisconsin but then slipped on this banana peel with his interview and Hillary Clinton has shown that she's ready to start hitting him back hard. And so he's shown he can hit back as well.

This is going to be the war to settle the score here in New York. You have two titans now. Look at that crowd. That's an amazing crowd for a rock star. This is an amazing crowd for a singer, for an athlete. He's a rock star in this party and she is a rock star in her own right. And they're going to clash and you're going to see now no more, nobody cares about her damn e-mails. It's going to be blow for blow, toe for toe until New York primaries.

BERMAN: Bakari Sellers, look at that crowd right there for Bernie Sanders. That is a big crowd. Llook at the last, you know, seven states that have voted. Bernie Sanders won six out of the last seven. How much of a problem is this for Hillary Clinton?

BAKARI SELLERS, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: What we've seen about this Democratic race is it's not as much about demographic -- as a momentum as it is demographics. Hillary Clinton came out march 15th and had an amazing showing she won all five states. But there was no momentum after that. What we saw was the demographics change. When you get into Wisconsin, when you get into Alaska, when you get into Washington State and Hawaii.

Now those demographics are turning back in favor of Hillary Clinton. When you go to Pennsylvania, when you go to Maryland, when you go to New York city, you're looking at these diverse very big delegate rich states which Hillary Clinton plans on doing very well in. Delaware, Connecticut, where these issues of guns are very, very big issues. And, yes, Bernie Sanders did slip on the banana peel, proverbial banana peel as my good friend Van Jones says. And he even made it more difficult and treacherous when having this discussion about guns and having really any solutions for any of the problems that he put forth.

BERMAN: Bill Press, again we're looking at a crowd right now at a Bernie Sanders event in Philadelphia. You are a Bernie Sanders supporter, your also a former Democratic superdelegate, which means I can ask you a question right now about to superdelegates.

That the Sanders campaign is relying on superdelegates to switch allegiances from Hillary Clinton to Bernie Sanders because it's unlikely that Bernie Sanders will be able to get the delegates he needs to secure the nomination without them.

[20:45:06] How hard is it going to be for him to flip superdelegates who have already committed to Hillary Clinton?

BILL PRESS, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: First of all, I also want to remind everybody, I'm former chair of the California Democratic Party. So anybody who thinks that California is safely in Hillary Clinton's pocket is wrong. Let me just tell you, I know California as well as anybody. California politics as well as anybody. Bernie Sanders is going to do very well in California. I just want to get that out.

In terms of my superdelegate had. Look there's two kinds of math., you know, and Bakari spoke to the delegate math. That's very, very important. There's also momentum math and that's what we're seeing tonight, that's what we saw in the last seven primaries where Bernie won six out of seven. And if he were to win after winning Wisconsin, he goes on to win New York and he win some other northeastern states , you know, bet these superdelegates, because their number one goal is to win the White House. They are going to say, look where the momentum is. Look where the enthusiasm is. Look who keeps winning delegates and primaries and caucuses. Maybe we better take a second look at Bernie Sanders. It happened in 2008, it could happen in 2016.

BERMAN: Van Jones, you've been someone who said all along this healthy debate is good for the Democratic Party. Is good to have this discussion out there. Is it still good right now if, as you've said, you know, the gloves are off to use a cliche, if Bernie Sanders is saying that Hillary Clinton should apologize to military members who died in the Iraq war?

Doesn't that leave a mark on the party or on the candidate who ultimately does emerge?

JONES: We are getting into the yellow zone starting to get into the red zone. We're going to see now.

Bernie Sanders has a challenge. He's got to take the fight to Hillary Clinton. If he doesn't, she's going to take it to him. Hillary Clinton and then saying, welcome to my world. This is New York City. This is New York media. They are tough. I know how to deal with them. You don't, and I'm going to -- every time you make a mistake, I'm coming after you. He's got to say listen, you don't get a lock on the progressive vote in New York City with your war record et cetera.

Bernie, though, mathematically, he probably can't get there. If he does too much damage to her, if he curdles his own supporters so much that they can't turn back to her in the election, don't forget his supporters are very young. 2008 the young folks won the older people and Hillary Clinton they said we're going with Obama because we understand the stakes.

A younger demographic may not be willing to accept that defeat and turn. So he is now in a situation, he's got to take a fight to her but he can go too far. He's got to be careful.

BERMAN: Both candidates need to be careful. Guys, thanks so much for being with us, really appreciate.

And coming up, mother and son, Anderson and his mother Gloria Vanderbilt, they've written a brand-new book together and offer a rare look at the relationship, including what it was like for her to be born into one of America's wealthiest families.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You never really felt much connection to the Vanderbilts.


COOPER: You felt like an impostor.

VANDERBILT: I felt like an impostor, yes.

COOPER: And have for much of your life.

VANDERBILT: And so do, really. COOPER: Really?



[20:52:08] BERMAN: You're about to know Anderson Cooper in a way you haven't before. He and his mother Gloria Vanderbilt they just wrote a book. It just came out, its called the "The Rainbow Comes and Go, A Mother and Son on Life, Love and Loss." It's a conversation Anderson wanted to start with his mother discussing what matters to them and what they still wanted to learn about each other. They're also featured in a new documentary airing on HBO this weekend called "Nothing Left Unsaid."

Anderson and Ms. Vanderbilt, they sat down recently to talk here at CNN, this is part of their conversation.


COOPER: When I was growing up, you often didn't talk about your past. Why was that?

VANDERBILT: Well, first of all, it was very complicated. Also, your dad spoke so much and told so many stories about his life and his growing up, that I really couldn't get a word in edgewise a lot of the time. So that had a lot to do ...

COOPER: But he came from a big family in Mississippi ...


COOPER: ... you know, much different family than your own. Poor family, essentially. But it was a much larger family, you never really had that sense of a family could be?

VANDERBILT: No, I didn't have that, and I also didn't really have a mother and father figure because my mother figure was my nanny, my nurse who I called dodo and my father figure was my grandmother who was nanny napoleon and so I really ...

COOPER: She worshipped napoleon.

VANDERBILT: Absolutely worshipped napoleon, and ...

COOPER: That was her get her model.

VANDERBILT: Her role model, her model in every way.

COOPER: You think she was maybe crazy?

VANDERBILT: I loved her so much, but I do think she -- I do think she was in many ways sometimes deranged, you know.

COOPER: For people, I mean who don't know, you were the subject of this custody battle at the height of the depression in 1934. You're 10 years old. And it was a battle between your mother who you really didn't know very well and your aunt, your father's sister. But also behind your aunt was your grandmother and your governess.

VANDERBILT: Well, yes, they really sort of plotted because I didn't even know that my aunt existed until I was 9 because after my father died when I was 16 months old, my mother took me to live in France, in Paris and ...

COOPER: And you didn't really even know her. I mean you would see her kind of coming and going out to parties but you didn't have a real relationship?

VANDERBILT: I didn't have a real relationship with her at all, and I just worshipped her from afar. She was so beautiful, you know.

COOPER: You never really felt much connection to the Vanderbilts?

VANDERBILT: I have -- I felt no connection.

COOPER: You felt like an impostor.

VANDERBILT: I felt like an impostor, yes.

COOPER: And have for much of your life?

VANDERBILT: And still do really.

COOPER: Really?

VANDERBILT: I there -- you know, I'm kind of impressed with them, you know.

COOPER: Like something you read about in a book?

[20:55:01] VANDERBILT: Yeah.

COOPER: But it doesn't feel like to have it ...

VANDERBILT: And does nothing to do -- I mean doesn't have anything to do with me.

COOPER: I was always glad I didn't have that last name, because I think that name comes with a lot of preconceived notions about -- I mean it's one of the reasons why I wanted too this film and this book is that I think your life is so different than people might imagine it to be. I mean it's really about working and creating art and beauty and, you know, I don't think people know -- you have a very public face but I don't think they know the person behind it. You don't think of yourself as a public person? I mean you did not ...

VANDERBILT: Not at all.

COOPER: ... you don't have any sense of what other people ...

VANDERBILT: No, I don't think of myself as a public person or -- at all. And it's because of the custody case I really sort of never read things about myself in the newspapers, and.

COOPER: You still don't read?

VANDERBILT: I try not to. All I care about is the photograph. I hope it's a good photograph.


BERMAN: We're going to have much more of Anderson's conversation with this mother in the coming days. Again their new book, "The Rainbow Comes and Goes" it is available now.

We'll be right back.


BERMAN: Here we have, two stories throughout the night. The Donald Trump rally and protests at a really big Sanders rally at Temple University in Philadelphia. The fight for Pennsylvania and New York heating up with CNN's Democratic debate now just more than a week away.

[21:00:04] We'll be following it all as in unfold tonight and beyond. We're back at 11:00 eastern. Right now, CNN Tonight with Don Lemon.