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Tensions Rise Ahead of CNN Dem Debate, NY Vote; Clinton Plan: Disqualify, Defeat Sanders Now; Sanders' Daily News Interview Sparks Criticism; Backlash Over Miss. "Religious Freedom" Law. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired April 6, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[10:30:10] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello, thank you so much for joining me. Terrorism and immigration were two of the hot-button issues that drove republican voters to the polls in Wisconsin. Exit polls show exactly how those issues played out between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Our Chief Business Correspondent, Christine Romans, has more on the exit polls. Good morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, again, Carol. You know, for 30 percent of republican voters, terrorism was their biggest concern. Of those national security voters, they preferred Ted Cruz, by 14 percentage points. We asked voters whether they support the signature, Trump temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States. Nearly 7 in 10 republican voters want to ban Muslims. But a twist here, Ted Cruz won this group by 6 points.

Remember, this is one of Donald Trump's signature policy proposals. It's a question we wouldn't even be asking if Trump hadn't brought it up. We also asked whether illegal immigrants should be deported. A third of GOP voters support deportation. Donald Trump carried this crowd 49 percent to Cruz's 45 percent.

On the democratic side, a big win for Bernie Sanders. The Sanders camp says he is gaining momentum with seven wins in the past eight contests against Hillary Clinton. But voters in Wisconsin think Hillary Clinton is the best candidate to take on Donald Trump. She bests Bernie Sanders by 11 percentage points, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Christine Romans. Thanks for sharing, we appreciate it. Tensions are rising between the two democratic candidates. Hillary Clinton launching a new attack plan against her rival, Bernie Sanders, since this morning, saying he doesn't know what he's talking about when he criticizes Wall Street.

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HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think the interview raised a lot of really serious questions. And I look at it this way; the core of his campaign has been, "break up the banks." And it didn't seem, in reading his answers, that he understood exactly how that would work, under Dodd-Frank, and exactly who would be responsible, what the criteria were. And that means you can't really help people, if you don't know how to do what you are campaigning on saying you want to do.

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COSTELLO: All right, so that aside, should this also concern the front-runner? Younger voters turned out for Sanders. He got 82 percent of 18 to 29 year-old voters. And half of all women voters, Clinton was right behind him though with 49 percent. Joining us now to talk about this and more, Brian Fallon. He's Press Secretary for Hillary For America. Welcome, Brian.

BRIAN FALLON, PRESS SECRETARY, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. So a former Obama Advisor, Dan Pfeiffer, tweeted out this, "Things that don't matter; narratives, momentum, and expectation. Things that do matter; math, delegates, and organization." Really? Momentum doesn't matter?

FALLON: Well I think that the point that Dan was making there, is to draw comparisons to the process that you saw in 2008. There was a point in the Spring where, I think, President Obama lost six out of nine contests to Hillary Clinton. And yet, she was never able to catch up in the delegate standpoint.

Because the way that democrats apportion delegates in these contests, you have to win, not just nominally, you have to have a big-size victory to truly gain the delegates you need, if you're running from behind, as Sanders is right now. And the results yesterday -- Wisconsin told that story -- he had a victory yesterday in Wisconsin, for which we congratulate him.

But if you look at what it means from a delegate standpoint, as of now it looks like he's just going to net about 10 delegates out of it. We entered yesterday with a delegate lead of 230, or so delegates. And so there's no question that this has been a positive stretch for Senator Sanders, but the states ahead will be the states that matter. Because the four largest, most delegate-rich states -- like New York on the 19th -- are ones that he is going to have to win, going away.

He's going to have to collect somewhere between 58, 59 percent of the delegates in a state like New York. And there's just no evidence of him being able to perform like that in a big, diverse state like New York.

COSTELLO: But still, in a general election, should Hillary Clinton get the nomination? She kind of needs white voters, white male voters, working-class voters, right? And she needs young people. And she needs some enthusiasm about her campaign, doesn't she?

FALLON: Well look, I think that Wisconsin was a state that was very favorable to Sanders. I think we shouldn't draw too many conclusions just off of one state. If you look overall, Gallop had a poll last week that showed that among democrats, Hillary Clinton actually has more enthusiasm compared to Bernie Sanders, 55 percent to 44.

And we know that we have some in-roads to make with certain demographics. But we believe that, as it stands right now, we have the makings of a winning, broad-based coalition. If you look at the support that she's earned across the states that have voted so far. We would like to perform more strongly with young voters, and we're working on that. I do think that over time --

COSTELLO: Well you know the thing about young voters, though --

FALLON: -- Sure.

COSTELLO: -- I have read that Hillary Clinton will turn her attacks on Bernie Sanders, and tell young people, "you know what? He's promising you these things, but he can't accomplish them, because he doesn't know how to do it," right?

[10:35:04] So she's going to like -- but I don't, I think young people would find that kind of patronizing.

FALLON: No, I don't think so. Look, she has a bold plan when it comes to some of the issues that young people care about, too. We have a very aggressive plan for how we're going to make college more affordable, allowing people, when they graduate, to refinance their loans at lower rates. Allowing people to opt-in to debt-free tuition options at public schools and universities.

We want to talk about that more, and we think that young people will gravitate to those proposals. We do think that it does matter, when it comes to Senator Sanders outlining his vision, that he be able to back it up and say how he's going to deliver on his goals. And the reason why that Daily News editorial board interview was so damning, I think, for him, was because he has really crystallized his campaign around the single issue of Wall Street reform, economic inequality.

If you're going to put those issues at the centerpiece of your campaign, you need to be able to explain and defend your proposals. And he wasn't even able to answer basic, elementary questions about how he would go about breaking up the banks.

COSTELLO: So when CNN's debate rolls around, will we see a feistier Hillary Clinton? A Hillary Clinton on the attack against Bernie Sanders?

FALLON: Well, I love Jeff Zeleny, but I don't know where he's getting his information suggesting that we're deploying some kind of new attack strategy against Senator Sanders. We're going to do the same thing we've been doing. Which is talk about her positive vision for what she wants to do to help lift incomes in this country. We are going to point out appropriate points of contrast with Senator Sanders.

I do think, for instance, the comments that he made to the Daily News about gun safety, suggesting that he still is not in favor of letting victims of gun violence sue manufacturers when they engage in reckless conduct. That was a troubling statement that he reiterated again to the Daily News. You've seen Governor Malloy, Senator Murphy from Connecticut, really hammer him over that. Because you have an active lawsuit right now with some of the parents of the children that were lost at Newtown.

They are suing, they are testing that legal theory. Senator Sanders is saying that they shouldn't get their day in court. That is a fair- game issue, I think, in a contest like the New York primary, where gun violence is such a salient issue. So we're going to point that out. But that's a legitimate policy difference. That's fair game.

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there, Brian Fallon, thanks for stopping by --

FALLON: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it, as always. In about a half and hour, Hillary Clinton will talk with CNN about the state of the democratic race. Tune in to At This Hour, with Berman and Bolduan. It's an interview you will not want to miss.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Bernie Sanders facing sharp criticism after a Daily News interview, on the issues. Will that be an issue for the democratic candidate, moving forward? I think it might be, Brian Fallon. We'll be right back.

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[10:41:52] COSTELLO: Disqualify and defeat Bernie Sanders now. That's the Clinton camp's new mantra, as they look to drop the hammer on their democratic rival. This after Sanders' big win in Wisconsin last night, marking his sixth straight contest win in a row. With me now is democratic strategist and Bernie Sanders supporter, Nomiki Konst. Hi, Nomiki.

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So Sanders may have the momentum, but he may have more to worry about when Clinton goes on the attack. And I'm talking about this Daily News article. The Daily News is a New York tabloid. It came down hard on Sanders, and this is two weeks before the New York primary. You see the headline there, "Bernie's Sandy Hook shame." And that's not all.

In a series of articles, Sanders upset gun control advocates by saying gun manufacturers are not liable for gun deaths. He told editors he hadn't thought about where to imprison ISIS terrorists if we closed Guantanamo Bay. And he was unable to articulate a plan to dismantle big banks. And I want to read the exact quote on that one; here it is.

So the Daily News asked Sanders, "How do you go about breaking up the big banks?" Mister Sanders; "How do you go about doing it is having legislation passed, or giving the authority to the secretary of treasury to determine, under Dodd-Frank, that these banks are dangerous to the economy over the problem of too-big-to-fail. The Daily News followed that answer up by asking this, "Do you think that the Fed has the authority to break up the big banks?" Sanders said, "Well, I don't know if the Fed has that authority." Nomiki, shouldn't Sanders know that?

KONST: Well actually, there's great fact-checking done on this in the New York Times. Which I hold as a higher standard of a paper, I don't know about the rest of you guys, in New York. I think most New Yorkers hold the New York Times a little bit higher than the Daily News, and New York Post. But they fact-checked this and they basically said that he was right on this.

The point -- if you read the entire transcript, which was very long, it took about 45 minutes to read -- he went into detail about how the determination of how to break up the big banks lies within Congress, or the President. And the president gives authority to the Fed. Now these are very arcane rules, it hasn't happened in many, many years. And it goes into detail about how there would have to come up with a better way of doing so. The problem is, is we take -- as we do in the media -- take little bits out of context, and don't show the full picture. And to be clear, to be even more fair, Bernie Sanders is the only Senator who's brought this up in Congress --

COSTELLO: I read the exact quote.

KONST: -- I know but there's, it's a much larger quote. He went into more detail at other points in the transcript. But he also is the only member of Congress who's brought this up as legislation, just last year. And you know what? The Daily News didn't talk about that, but the New York Times did. So I encourage everybody to go to the New York Times and read that article. And it'll go more into detail about, not just his record, but what he was trying to say there. And he was being very fair, unlike a lot of politicians who go in and lie.

COSTELLO: Well, I will say that there's something about offering a simpler explanation. Like, just give me your plan of how you're going to do it and leave it there. Don't tell me what can't be done, and what laws have to be passed, and blah, blah, blah. Voters want answers now, they want simple answers. They just wanted to know how Bernie Sanders would go about breaking up the big banks. That's what he's running on --

[10:45:02] KONST: That's the thing, it's not an easy process. And that's what the New York Times was trying to explain. That, as much as we want it to be an easy process, it does have to go through the Fed. It does have to be passed through Congress. And these are an arcane, very complex set of laws that have to go through. And every economist says so, and that's what the New York Times pulled. They said every economist says the same thing.

So as much as we want to simplify it, economics is really tough. And Bernie Sanders acknowledges that. And guess what? Hillary Clinton isn't talking about that. She continues to go and accept money from high-dollar donors, do fundraisers like she did just last night, you know, at $30,000 a plate, and she's not talking about breaking up the big banks. Because that's what voters want. They want to make sure that they can

survive. She is out there campaigning with Governor Cuomo, trying to take credit for the $15 minimum wage, while she's for the $12 minimum wage. She is not for the $15 minimum wage, she is not for democratic values, she doesn't want universal healthcare. That's what democrats want.

So she also insulted him, said he's not a democrat. But when you look at the issues, democrats are about --

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about that for a second, because that was my next question. Because she has gone on the attack. --

KONST: Right.

COSTELLO: -- She says she doesn't really know what Bernie Sanders is. She says he may not be a real democrat. So in your mind, is Bernie Sanders a real democrat? Or, is he a socialist, or is he a democratic socialist, is he an independent socialist? What is he?

KONST: Well he's been very open about being a democratic socialist. And when you poll democrats, they don't care if they're socialist, they're democratic socialist, or a democrat. But if you want to get really specific here, he is a very valuable member of the Senate. And democrats wouldn't win a lot of votes if it weren't for Bernie Sanders.

So much so that Senator Chuck Schumer, of New York, has gone out and campaigned for Bernie Sanders. So much so that Bernie Sanders has gone out and campaigned for democrats. And when you look at the issues that democrats care about, the rhetoric matches his record. Hillary Clinton's rhetoric is not matching her record.

Democrats want universal healthcare, they want quality and cheap, affordable college. They want -- they don't want democrats to instinctively go to war. Those are things that Hillary Clinton does. I mean, you look at the record, Hillary Clinton falls more in lines with republicans. Including on abortion issues, which she is not completely -- you know, she has exceptions to, which leaves the states open to interpretation. Which is where republicans are winning.

She -- her rhetoric is not matching a democrat's record. So it's a cheap shot.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. But I will say that CNN debate will be interesting, right? KONST: Yes.

COSTELLO: Nomiki Konst, thanks so much.

KONST: Thank you so much.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. Both Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders will return to the debate stage next Thursday night, in Brooklyn. It's on CNN, moderated by Wolf Blitzer, starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Still to come in the Newsroom, protesters are furious over

Mississippi's brand new religious freedom law. They say it's a cover for legal discrimination.

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[10:51:51] COSTELLO: In the state of Mississippi, a backlash is growing against a law critics say is legal discrimination. The state becoming the latest to allow private businesses and government agencies to deny services to the LGBT community based on religious objections. Governor Phil Bryant signed the controversial bill into law on Tuesday, even though protesters had urged him not to do so.

And now the hashtag, "shameonphil" is trending. CNN's Sara Ganim joins us now with more on this. Good morning.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, some very strong language and reaction to this law. Some people calling it a hate bill, others saying that it's sending Mississippi back into its dark past. So this really the latest in a wave of religious discrimination laws across the South, since the Supreme court legalized same-sex marriage. But this one stands out, in Mississippi, because it's so detailed, and such a strong language. This law, which was signed into law last night by the governor there, allows businesses to deny services based on their beliefs against same-sex marriage, against premarital sex, and a recognition of someone's gender only at birth. So that, Carol, means that people can be denied adoption services --

COSTELLO: Wait, premarital sex?

GANIM: Yes, so for everybody. For everyone, not just same-sex couples, but a belief against premarital sex can cause you to be denied counseling services, adoption services, certain medical treatment. Even the chance to buy or rent property. That's how strong this language is, and that's why this has people so upset. Governor Phil Bryant defending this decision, but there's a lot of back and forth. Take a look.

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GOVERNOR PHIL BRYANT, (D) MISSISSIPPI: If a baker or photographer says, "my deeply-held religious views is that I cannot participate in a religious ceremony, like a wedding, the state cannot fine you. We cannot take your license away from you.

ROB HILL, MISSISSIPPI STATE DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Yes, the LGBT people in Mississippi who have heard throughout the years -- maybe at a church, or at school, or even in their home, unfortunately -- that they are not of value, and that they're second class. And here's our state leader saying exactly that same thing.

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GANIM: So there are other states that have floated (ph) similar laws. North Carolina had a lot of backlash in the last couple of weeks over a bill that regulates who can go into which bathroom. Virginia and Georgia both had governors that vetoed similar bills. And next up, we see Tennessee, they're considering a bill that has to do with therapists, and whether or not they have to give their counseling to certain people. But we're seeing the pushback come mostly in the pocketbook, right? Businesses saying that they are not OK with this, they are not going to do business in states that have these kinds of laws on the books --

COSTELLO: Well have any of them followed through with their promise to leave?

GANIM: Well Paypal for one, has decided not to go forward with a huge expansion in the state of North Carolina. This was just signed into law last night in Mississippi, already we're seeing reaction from businesses like Microsoft, and IBM. So large corporations, this could have a financial impact.

COSTELLO: All right, Sara Ganim, thanks so much. Coming up in the NEWSROOM, it's a good time to live and work in San Francisco. Tell you why, next.

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[10:59:07] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 59 minutes past. President Obama's Supreme Court nominee, Judge Merrick Garland is making the rounds on Capitol Hill, again. He's meeting with democratic senator, Dick Durbin, the first of several face-to-face talks with top democrats today. Republicans are refusing to hold hearings to have a vote on his nomination.

San Francisco, now the first US city to mandate 6 weeks of paid leave for new parents. City's Board of Supervisors unanimously approved the measure, which requires companies with 20 or more employees to pay full salaries during parental leave. The new law takes effect on January 1st.

Thank you so much for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now. With an exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton. Stick around.