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Bernie Sanders Backtracking on Whether Hillary Clinton is Qualified to Be President; Bill Clinton Tried To Mend Fences With Black Lives Matter Protesters in Philadelphia; Donald Trump Hired Paul Manafort; How Colorado's GOP Delegates Are Chosen; Raids, Arrests In Brussels; Inside Anderson & His Mom; "The Rainbow Comes And Goes" Out Now; Race For The White House Sunday. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 8, 2016 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:08] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening. Thanks for joining us.

There is a lot happening tonight including breaking news. Anti-terror operations under way right now in Belgium. Authorities going house to house after the arrest of this man caught on amateur video. Now the question right now, is the man on the sidewalk also the by security camera pushing a baggage, cart through Brussels airport along with two other suicide bombers.

We begin, though, with breaking news from the campaign trail and a possible break in the truce that seemed to be developing today between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. Just hours after reversing his charge that Hillary Clinton is not qualified to be president, just hours after saying, of course Hillary Clinton is qualified, he sat down with CNN Jake Tapper and seemed to be back on the attack.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I just want them to understand that, you know, we have tried to run an issue oriented campaign but that we are going to be attacked every single day. And our record is not going to be distorted. We are going to fight back. And what I said is that a candidate like Secretary Clinton, who voted for the disastrous war in Iraq, who has supported virtually eve disastrous trade agreement which has coast us millions of decent paying jobs and who receives incredible amounts of money. We are talking about tens of millions of dollars through our Superpac from every special interest that you can think of from the billionaire class, you know. I have my doubts about what kind of president she would make.


COOPER: Jeff Zeleny is in Brooklyn.

Jeff, the tone today - I mean, certainly seems to have shifted dramatically from what we were hearing yesterday.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Without question, Anderson. But you heard right there in his interview with Jake that senator Sanders is trying to turn this back to issues. Going through a laundry list of specific issues that he disagrees with her on and, of course, his supporters do as well.

So you know, for these last several months when you ask senator Sanders, you know, how far are you willing to sort of go in attacking and raising questions, he always says he is going to try and focus on the issues. Well, he acknowledges that's saying that she's not qualified was probably a mistake. But he is, I'm told, going to try to pivot back to specific issues that he believes she is not aligned with sort of the progressive movement here. So I think that's the distinction here.

But you know, we have seen this back and forth that Clinton campaign certainly realized there's no upside for them into saying he is not specifically qualified to be president. That was their sort of line a couple of days ago but they are backing off from that because, Anderson, they still want to win over those Sanders voters at the end of all of this should she become the nominee. So that is still sort of the pot of gold out there they need to hold on to.

COOPER: And Sanders announced today that he is going to speak at the Vatican conference late next week. What more do we know about it?

ZELENY: We know that he was invited by the Vatican and he will be speaking at this economic and social justice conference. And you may wonder why a presidential candidate would be leaving the United States four days before the New York primary to attend a conference at the Vatican. Well, he simply is -- a, he was excited to be invited. But b, it also elevates him in a sense that he does not have as much foreign policy experience or credentials as his rival, obviously. So this allows him to be sort of on a bigger stage here.

But I asked one of his advisers tonight, are you worried at all that this will take him out of New York? And he said senator Sanders will be out of New York for 24 hours. That is much less than Hillary Clinton who is flying to California next weekend to raise money with George Clooney. So they believe this is a good thing for him. And he will be campaigning throughout this weekend and all next week.

Anderson, the next 11 days are critical in this campaign. If he can do well here in New York, the race will go on. If the Clinton campaign wins big here, the math makes it so, so, so hard for senator Sanders.

COOPER: Jeff, Jeff Zeleny, thanks very much.

Bill Clinton, meantime, tried to mend fences today after squaring off yesterday with black lives matter protesters in Philadelphia.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, I like and believe in protests. I would be a hypocrite if I didn't because I engaged in some when I was a kid. But I never thought I should drown anybody else out. And I confess, maybe it's just a sign of old age, but it bothers me now that it happens. So I did something yesterday in Philadelphia. I almost want to apologize for it, but I want to use it as an example of the danger threatening our country.


COOPER: Well, the confrontation which he almost but did not apologize for concern the 1994 crime bill he signed as president and comments by the first lady which she since apologized for, referring to young violent African-American criminals as super predators who are believed to be part of the terrifying new kind of threat. A long story short, the threat never developed. Secretary Clinton is now paying the political price for buying into it and her husband is defending both her and himself loudly.


[20:05:01] CLINTON: I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out on to the street to murder other African-American children. Maybe you thought they were good citizens. She didn't. She didn't. You are defending the people who killed the lives you say matter.


COOPER: Well, that exchange led some pundits today to call for Secretary Clinton in so many words to fire her husband from the campaign trail. And whether or not that actually happened, CNN's Michelle Kosinski has more on the liabilities that sometimes accompany his considerable political talent.


MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Bill Clinton losing his trademark cool.

CLINTON: That's not true.

KOSINSKI: And it's not the first time he's made headlines on this trail. Just two weeks ago, stumping for Hillary --

CLINTON: If you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we've finally come to the point where we can put the awful legacy of the last eight years behind us --

KOSINSKI: Awful legacy of President Obama? Problematic to the point that Hillary Clinton addressed it on jimmy Kimmel."

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are both very proud supporters of President Obama. President Obama who I think doesn't get the credit he deserves for getting as much done as he has in our country.

KOSINSKI: Recently the president admitted it's a difficult position he finds himself in.

B. CLINTON: The hotter this election gets, the more I wish I was just a former president and not the spouse of the next one. Because, you know, I have to be careful what I say. KOSINSKI: And then days later, raised eyebrows by saying --

B. CLINTON: We are all mixed race people.

KOSINSKI: But it also happened in 2008 when Hillary was running against then senator Barack Obama. President Clinton attacked Obama saying quote "a few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee." And he tried to say that Obama who voted against the war in Iraq and Hillary Clinton who voted for it essentially felt the same way over time.

B. CLINTON: Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I have ever seen.

KOSINSKI: So could Bill Clinton be something of a liability for Hillary? It's definitely been suggested. His personal life has come up. She has faced uncomfortable questions. And some of his policies as president on Wall Street, crime, gays in the military, they are a stark contrast to Hillary's biggest threat, Bernie Sanders.

Who has both defended Hillary and blasted both of them.

SANDERS: Look, Hillary Clinton is not bill Clinton. What Bill Clinton did, I think we can all acknowledge was totally, totally disgraceful and unacceptable. But I am running against Hillary Clinton. I'm not running against Bill Clinton.

KOSINSKI: A former Hillary communications director said the trail is tough.

B. CLINTON: I listen to you. You listen to me.

KOSINSKI: And even the people most known for communicating, not always at their best under such scrutiny and constraint.

Michelle Kosinski, CNN, the White House.


COOPER: Well, joining us now to talk about that and the breaking news and the sort of, kind of maybe temporary truce that emerge today that maybe have faded, CNN political commentator and 2008 senior Clinton campaign advisor Maria Cardona, Sanders surrogate Jonathan Tasini, author of "the essential Bernie Sanders, and his vision for America," CNN political commentators and senior Democratic Party official Donna Brazile and John King, chief national correspondent and anchor of "INSIDE POLITICS."

Let's start about former president Clinton first. It did seem like we saw the old Bill Clinton out on the campaign trail. But it also is a sign of -- or I guess is it a sign of the potential liabilities that come along with them which we have seen in the past?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That reminded some of a moment I remember very well which is confrontation with soldier back in the 1992 campaign when many thought that Bill Clinton was trying to make the point to stand up to an African-American who has said something controversial in a way so he was pivoting to the general election to trying to satisfy white voters, I have no what his calculation was here yesterday.

But clearly, look. He wanted to defend his record. Even though he said he think he overshot the mark but with the 1994 crime bill that if you covered the issue at the time, he thought he was doing the right thing. A lot of the pressure to act did come from the African- American community. And he wanted to defend himself and his wife in the face of those protesters. And that is who he is. He gets testy. He has a temper. Trust me. I have been on the receiving end of that temper. However, you know, we can have a conversation, though, given the moment for her is that what he should be doing as a surrogate for her right now given the fact that she needs African-American votes in New York.

The younger African-American votes is where Bernie Sanders has been trying to make some progress. The black lives matter has put itself front and support in this campaign. And after New York, you get Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, three nor states where she needs African-American turn out. And does she want to be having this conversation right now? I suspect not.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, Donna Brazile, for Bernie Sanders who had run- ins with black lives matter protesters early on. Hillary Clinton has as well. But this sort of does give some perhaps ammunition to Sanders -- to folks who may be thinking about leaving Clinton and going to Sanders, particularly young people.

[20:10:05] DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would hope that it would not give anyone ammunition to do anything differently than what they would have done, say, two days ago. Look, Bill Clinton -- I've been on the receiving end of both his passion, but also --

KING: The up side and the --

BRAZILE: Yes. But also the fact is Bill Clinton was a really good president. And I will stand by Bill Clinton. I will stand by some of the difficult decisions that Bill Clinton had to make as president. They were not easy decisions. I mean, the 1980s were horrible, tough for Democrats, tough for progressives. Tough for liberals. And there's no questions that's liberals and progressives fought with the moderate and the conservative wing of our party to try to mediate some of these crises and to make sure that we would come up with good common sense laws.

The black lives matter movement, these are young people that many Americans have embraced because they are tired of seeing their fellow colleagues, their citizens, their brothers and sisters died in the streets. So this is a very, very interesting time to have this conversation.

COOPER: Does he benefit on the campaign trail, Bill Clinton?

BRAZILE: When Hillary announced, Bill Clinton was at 60 percent. Now at 58 percent? Is he an asset? Ask President Obama. COOPER: Jonathan, let's talk about Sanders. How does senator Sanders

go from, she's unqualified to, of course she's qualified to, well, maybe I'm not so sure?

JONATHAN TASINI, AUTHOR, THE ESSENTIAL BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS VISION FOR AMERICA: Can I make a comment, though, about Bill Clinton quickly. I think Bill Clinton, this is typical Bill Clinton. He does not like criticism of his record. He's partly defending Hillary Clinton. But when we progressives have criticized him for pushing through NAFTA, when we criticized him for basically tearing the water for Robert Rubin and city bank and eliminate the glass/Steagall act, when he was for the death penalty, when he refused to help unions passed the strike replacement bill and a whole law --

COOPER: Gays in the military.

TASINI: And the fact that the economy that he oversaw, yes, it create a lot of jobs but it was really built on a credit bubble which then blew up. Bill Clinton does not like to hear that kind of criticism. And it's indicative of the debate that is going on now which is that, we, Bernie Sanders, and the progressive movement, the political revolution, want to basically overturn the establishment politics that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton represent.

To your point about the question about qualifications. Look, let's kind of separate the two things. They both have resumes. And both of them have done lots of things in government service. But I think the debate that Bernie wants to go back to, which he did from the very beginning was, how do we differ based on judgment, on principles and how we would lead the country. And as you saw in the lead-up piece I think it was completely legitimate and I think he should continue to criticize Hillary Clinton's vote for the Iraq war, her trust in George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.

COOPER: So, if he is asked directly again, is she qualified --?

TASINI: Well, I think what he should say, and this my opinion, he should say I want to address the issues. And I would like to make the argument that she should not be president because of her vote for the immoral Iraq war, which was one of the worst foreign policy decisions that was made in the last two decades. And I think that's a fair debate. She can come back and make the argument. But to basically focus on the issues, the Iraq war, healthcare, her $225,000 fee to speak for Goldman Sachs.

Maria, do you think that was below the belt?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do think it was below the belt. And I think he realized that at least for 24 hours, he realized it was below the belt because they started walking it back. First of all, it's a silly argument and it was a dumb tactic. And actually, we saw on twitter, he got a lot of criticism from his own supporters saying that they were done with him because of it.

Look, looking at her resume, there is no one who is going to believe that she is not qualified to be president. You can talk about the issues. But I think there are some pitfalls there for Bernie Sanders when he lists all of those issues for which he believes she's not qualified to be president. Then I think the follow-up question should be, do you think President Obama is not qualified to be president because every single one of those things are things that President Obama has done as well.

TASINI: Well, in fact, the Clintons made the argument back in 2008 when they tried to knee cap Barack Obama that he wasn't qualified and he made just one or two speeches --

CARDONA: They never said that about one another. And in fact --.

TASINI: No. They actually tried to -- they tried to deal it - they try to delegitimize him. And I just want to make the distinction between it's not about the qualifications. It's what your moral principles and judgment are. And so, let's --.

BRAZILE: And I think that's why --

COOPER: Donna --

BRAZILE: And that's why Secretary Clinton, I'm neutral. And I haven't taken a position. But I have to sometime come to the defense of Secretary Clinton when there's this undercut of her so-called veracity and her moral judgment when she has made many tough decisions in her including the Iraq war. But the undercut --

TASINI: That's a fair debate.

BRAZILE: The debate will go on, OK. But I also believe that senator Sanders also has issues that many progressives are very uncomfortable with his record. So -- but this underbelly that somehow she should be disqualified simply because of some impairment of her judgment --

[20:15:13] COOPER: In the time we have left, let me ask you --

BRAZILE: People are uncomfortable with that.

COOPER: What do you feel about Sanders going to the Vatican?

BRAZILE: I'm catholic so --

TASINI: I'm a Jew, so. I've not been to the Vatican.

COOPER: No. But I mean, at this time in the race?

TASINI: I think it's a fantastic thing. And I think it should say to the American people the wonderful thing about Bernie Sanders. That he wakes up every single day trying to think about how to change the world. And he has said many great things about the Pope's positions on greed, on inequality, on the fact that we bow down to the free market. And I actually believe in Bernie Sanders' heart he is going there because he is thinking, man, can I make the Pope stand up and --

COOPER: You don't think politics has anything to help bolster his credentials? TASINI: No. Honestly, no. I think there's -- I absolutely think

there's a political benefit to that, but I don't think that Bernie Sanders, that's the first thing in his mind.

COOPER: Maria is going to stick around. Well, actually Maria, Jonathan and Donna, thank you very much. John, stick around.

BRAZILE: Stick around.

COOPER: Up next, the Republican (INAUDIBLE), Donald Trump's new delegate wrangler and his colorful background. Trump's absence from the trail, why Ted Cruz is in Las Vegas. And more on that in the Republican side.

And later, we will take you where they choose delegates like you probably have never seen before. One part presidential politics. One part kind of speed dating when 360 continues.


[20:20:15] COOPER: Hey, welcome back. With the string of big primaries fast approaching and his campaign hiring guys specifically to maximize his delegate count you would expect Donald Trump to be campaigning big time today. Instead, he had no campaign appearances, tweeting instead, so great to be in New York catching up on many things. Remember, I'm still running a major business while a campaign and loving it. Tuesday night he will be here in studio along with family members and voters for a "360" town hall, one we hope in a series from all the candidates. It gets under way at 9:00 eastern time on Tuesday night.

Now, in the meantime, while he was taking care of business, his two rivals were campaigning. More on all of it from Jim Acosta who joins us now from Las Vegas where Ted Cruz had a busy day. So Cruz is out west today. He is going to be there all weekend. Why not in New York?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the Texas senator may want to consider the nickname Ted Cruz delegate hunter. That's because his quest throughout the campaign has been to go after delegates. He is in Las Vegas today, as you said, meeting with donors. But tomorrow he will be the only candidate to address the Colorado Republican state convention. That's is a quirky process that is even more confusing than a caucus. But the Cruz campaign has figured it out and Cruz could pick up a big sweep there and win all the delegates up for grabs. Then Cruz comes back to Las Vegas tomorrow to speak before the Republican Jewish coalition, a group run by casino tycoon Sheldon Adelson. That's a speech that conservative Jewish voters will be paying attention to back in New York. And some with the group here, Anderson, are openly questioning why Donald Trump is not here. They are mystified by that.

COOPER: Well, yes. I mean, that is my next question, too. Why isn't he out on the campaign trail and whether it's in New York or in Vegas or elsewhere? I mean, delegates are what it's all about. ACOSTA: That's right. As you said, Trump tweeted earlier today, he

is taking care of business back in the office. But he has been meeting behind closed doors, as we all know from much for the last few days reorganizing his campaign essentially.

Paul Manafort, as we've been talking about over the last couple of days, he is now the man in charge of Trump's battle for delegates and the strategy for the convention this summer. It is a part of a new power sharing relationship with Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski.

In talking to CNN earlier today, Manafort pushed back on this notion that Lewandowski is being sidelined. But he made it clear he only answers to Trump. And Manafort also vowed that Trump will reach that magic number of 1,237 delegates.

Now, as for Trump, Anderson, he will be returning to the campaign trail with a vengeance on Sunday with a rally in Rochester, New York. And the Trump campaign tells me he is focused on winning a landslide in New York as that will offset some of the recent delegate losses he has had lately. And appearing in New York also gets him exposure in other upcoming northeastern contests like Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Connecticut -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Jim Acosta, thanks very much from Vegas.

Back with John King who joins as well right now by conservative columnist and CNN political commentator Mary Catherine Ham. Also our political commentators Kayleigh McEnany, Amanda Carpenter and Kevin Madden. Kayleigh is a Trump supporter, the other two are not. Amanda is a former top staff for Senator Ted Cruz. Kevin is a former 2012 Romney campaign adviser.

Kayleigh, are you concerned not to have Donald Trump out on the trail today, tomorrow Sunday in Rochester?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not concern. Because look. He is ahead tremendously in New York by 30 points. He is over the 50 percent mark. I expect that his support to grow in New York, not to shrink. And, look, I think that Paul Manafort was right this morning that he absolutely can get over 1237 before the convention. Because look, if he wins in New York and breaches the 50 percent mark, that's takes him to an 840 delegate count number, if he wins in all of the districts. Then you look forward to Maryland, where he is ahead by ten. Pennsylvania, he is ahead by nine. California, up by seven. The math looks really good for Donald Trump. So we can all sit here and say he lost Wisconsin, doomsday for Trump. Or look you can look at the map going forward and see that Paul Manafort is exactly right. He could very well clinch this. And we would not be looking (INAUDIBLE).

COOPER: But I mean, Amanda, we have seen a lot of states where Ted Cruz has basically outmaneuver Trump's campaign on the ground in the battle for delegates. Louisiana, Trump going, you know, the most votes, but Cruz got more delegates. AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER CRUZ COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Right. And

that's why Trump had to hire a person like Paul Manafort. But I think Manafort is in a job that's destined to fail. What he is trying to do is like trying to repair a car with no engine. He can do all the work he wants. It is not going to drive. And it can't work because Trump hasn't built the field operations in the state to utilize.

COOPER: You are saying it's too late?

CARPENTER: It's too late. I mean, trying to start this process now. Finding the delegates alone is a really hard task, let alone meeting with them, recruiting them, getting them committed to Donald Trump. Ted Cruz has been doing this for a long, long time now. One guy isn't going to be able to do that job.

COOPER: Kevin, do you agree with that?

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look. I think it's late. I think there's still an opportunity but clearly it's a much bigger uphill battle. Look, I think right now what's you are seeing is a contrast in the two campaigns. One of them is working very favorable I think to Ted Cruz. Somebody who keeps raising the stakes, talking about the mission that all of, not only he and his supporters are on to stop Donald Trump and the way that he is trying-- in a way that's making an effort to unify so many folks within the party.

With Donald Trump, I don't think concern is the right word but I would definitely disagree with it. And at this point in the campaign, you cannot take a day off because every time you take a day off, that provides Ted Cruz the opportunity to seize a little bit more momentum. And all he needs is enough momentum to breach that goal of stopping him from getting 1237 on the way to Cleveland.

[20:25:38] COOPER: Jim Acosta mentioned Paul Manafort was on "NEW DAY" this morning. Let's play a clip from that.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Are you the boss' boss now?

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: I work directly for the boss.

CUOMO: So that's it. You only have one guy you listen to, and it's Trump?

MANAFORT: I listen to everybody but I have one man whose voice is louder than everybody else's.


COOPER: Mary Katherine, what do you make of this? I mean, is this a positive development for Trump or do you think it is too late?

MARY KATHERINE HAM, CONSERVATIVE WRITER: He sounds louder to me than everybody else, too. But I think any team with a quarterback controversy is maybe not the healthiest team. And that's what this looks like. Now, I'm not going to say that unconventional doesn't work for Donald Trump because unconventional, it's worked plenty of times for Donald Trump like being off the trail today. Perhaps it does work. But in the past, not showing up has hurt him as it did in Iowa at that debate. And I think when you got this 50 percent threshold which he really wants to hit to turn this into a real big delegate slide for him, you got to be out there working. But he does what he wants to do on a given - any given day.

KING: Their calculation, it was Paul Manafort's calculation is it's a risk worth taking for a day or two because they want to put first things first. Number one, they think it was too late in Colorado. That that have already been outhustled. The Cruz is too well- organized. So I think Donald Trump there at the last minute. And then if he lost it is going to be embarrassing.

So they keep him in New York to try to do two things. Number one, he canceled west coast trips. One of Paul Manafort's (INAUDIBLE) is that why was Donald Trump going to places with big stadiums during Iowa, in New Hampshire, you know? Why are you going into the south to do big stadium event, not focus on your votes. Do one thing at a time. And the most important thing for them right now is to get as many of the 95, as Kayleigh just said to get 95 if you can. If you can't, get 75 or 80 to start on his delegate math.

And the other thing they are working on which is why being off the trail make sense is to try to read you the stump speech, to add more conservative ideas and take out fewer -- have fewer ideas to drive the establishment crazy so that Donald Trump can try to make the case I'm ready to consolidate the party. Will it work? I don't know. That's what they are trying to do.

COOPER: I mean, that will be an interesting question is does he then start to make an actual stump speech as opposed to, you know, we all know it now, he takes out his thing and has a couple of poll points on it and he just - he talks.

MADDEN: Freeze off couple polls and then he talks. I think look, you never want to see internal power struggles like this litigated out in public. But I think the big question for the campaign is, is that a sign of a campaign that's coming apart or is it a sign of a campaign that's in transition and that is beginning to mature? I think most folks, even Trump supporters would say that this was not a campaign that was very well positioned for a big contested convention fight and a general election. And that they have to make some big changes internally. The next week will show whether that's been the case or if it's coming apart.

COOPER: You know, I mean, does it raise then a larger question about Donald Trump's capabilities as a leader? I mean, if he is whole thing is he run - he is running, you know, running these amazing businesses, he has the organizational skills, if his is the campaign, which seems to be having the biggest problems and the lack of organization, what does that say about his ability?

MCENANY: Well, I think it says that's Donald Trump fought like all of the American people, that's this should be a process where the popular vote determines the outcome. This should not be a process where it's about courting delegates or is it about buying delegates dinners, flying them places, buying the night (INAUDIBLE).

COOPER: This is the process - I mean, --.

MCENANY: This is the process but far be it upon it on him, you know, to think that the American people's vote should matter. I mean, that's what people said last week in Wisconsin. That's what people have said nationally. That's what --.

COOPER: You don't think this says anything about his actual organizational skills and business skills, perhaps, to - I mean, if the guy who is supposedly the best business leader is running a campaign which is getting outmaneuvered by Ted Cruz who, you know, doesn't have business experience or certainly not to the level of Donald Trump.

MCENANY: I don't think so because I think he thought that the popular vote is what should count.

COOPER: He's just a naive babe in the woods, you are saying?

MCENANY: No. And he also thought that he was going to clinch this. And now, that it's looking more like a contested convention, now it is time to pivot and, you know, do what you can to get double.

CARPENTER: let me just say this is a very risky time to start rolling out now policy. There is a sort of momentum to campaign where he get keep stakeholder involve to get their support, to try to do that in this campaign. Ii is just a very a risky proposition.

HAM: Let me also say, the rationale for though campaign from Donald Trump himself has always been I hire the best people and this is how I will run the presidency. Doesn't matter that I don't have much experience there. I will find the best people. And then on Iowa and the ground that is having many times since then, he goes, well, my people thought we were going to win and we didn't. Well, that's a problem with the rationale of the candidacy.

COOPER: We got to take a break.

[20:30:02] As Jim Acosta mentioned moments ago, Ted Cruz going to be in Colorado tomorrow. His destination a chaotic scene unfolding right now, wait we'll see how GOP delegates there are chosen. It's fascinating, it's like a wild west like you've never seen before.

Also breaking news, from Brussels, anti-terrorism raids under way tonight arrest made, we'll go there live.


COOPER: Well considering in every single delegate could count in the Republican race for the White House, what's happening in Colorado is crucial and intriguingly complicated. 37 delegates are up for grabs however, no one is gathering for a caucus or a primary, instead party insiders are listening to quick pitches. Some lasting just seconds from hundreds of potential national delegates to decide who will go to the convention, wraps to contested convention this summer in Cleveland.

Randi Kaye is in Colorado trying to show us how it's playing out.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What you are looking at inside this Colorado Springs hotel is the campaign inside the campaign where wannabe national delegates are making a push to get to the Republican National Convention. And campaigns are trying to win their support all behind closed doors. Jon Caldera who has yet to say which candidate he'll support, is one of them.

[20:35:04] Why haven't you pledged yourself to a candidate?

JON CALDERA, UNPLEDGED DELEGATE: Because I think this year is so fluid and so chaotic, I'm not too sure what's going to happen in Cleveland.

KAYE: Colorado chose not to hold a caucus or a primary this year due to cost.

Instead it's holding these smaller conventions where delegate candidates are elected to attend the national convention in Cleveland. And from what we've seen here, this is a messy process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a fun, wild, chaotic and wildly disorganized process.

KAYE: Here's how that process works. Delegate candidates like Jon each give a 30-second sales pitch.

CALDERA: I want to make it clear, I'm running as an unbound delegate because it will be a wild ride there.

KAYE: Then state party members cast their ballot on their delegate choice. In the end, 37 Colorado delegates will be sent to Cleveland. With a contested convention a real possibility, an unpledged delegate is a hot commodity. If a presidential candidate can get enough unpledged delegates to pledge allegiance to his side it could literally give him the nomination. So the campaigns are in hot pursuit.

Have you been courted already by the campaigns?

MARY DAMBMAN, UNPLEDGED DELEGATE: A million times. I was so tired of robocalls today. I could have croaked.

KAYE: Mary Dambman was one of 58 potential national delegates at another gathering Thursday night in Arvada, Colorado.

CARL HOOPS, UNPLEDGED DELEGATE: Hi there, Carl Hoops, running for national delegate.


KAYE: Potential unpledged national delegate Carl Hoops was there, too, expecting to be wood heavily by Donald Trump's team if elected, noting the campaign's deep pockets.

What do you think they'll throw your way?

HOOPS: I don't really know.

KAYE: A dug (ph) of bag of cash? A ride on the Trump plane? What is this?

HOOPS: It doesn't matter what it is. My vote cannot be bought. That's for sure.

KAYE: Back in Colorado Springs at the hotel, former New Hampshire Senator John Sununu was courting unpledged delegates on behalf of Governor John Kasich.

JOHN SUNUNU, COURTING DELEGATES FOR KASICH: No is going to be, they have their mind changed for the painted dinner. This is about more than that.

KAYE: So, it's the wooing and courting OK with you or do you feel pressure?

CALDERA: I'm a lonely man. I like to be wooed every now and then.


COOPER: And Randi joins us now. So how did the delegates you were following do it? Were any of them elected to the national convention?

KAYE: Actually Anderson only one of the unpledged delegates that we were following will be going to the Republican National Convention and he's going as an alternate. So he told that very likely he won't be able to vote. As he put it he's simply going for the show.

But as far as the whole delegate count goes here, Ted Cruz has won all of the delegates here in Colorado so far at these smaller conventions except for two alternates who will be going to the national convention, they were elected today and they'll be supporting Donald Trump.

Ted Cruz, Anderson, has a very strong ground game here. His campaign knows what they doing, they have been recruiting delegate candidates who have good name recognition, who are local political types that people know here, they've been voting for. That's how they are getting elected to the national convention.

He's also been courting delegates who have been to the convention before, so they know how the system works, they know floor rules and, you know, with the possible contested convention this year, that is critical for any of these candidates, Anderson?

COOPER: Yeah, all right Randi, thank very much. They say fun day. Quick note about the Democratic delegate chase, Thursday night, CNN is hosting Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in what could be a decisive debate, going to some with vital primaries Wolf Blitzer is moderating again, right here on CNN Thursday night 9:00 p.m. eastern.

Coming up tonight, more on the breaking news in Belgium, a day after authorities release more surveillance video of a suspected Belgian bomber. A man has been arrested in Belgium, investigator trying to figure out exactly who he is. Is that the same guy? There new raids going on, to tell you about as well.

The latest, next.


[20:42:37] COOPER: Breaking news tonight. More raids are happening in Belgium right now after the arrest of a number of terror suspects, including a man who might be the one seen in the surveillance video at the brussel Airport moments before last month's deadly terror attack.

The arrests were certainly a good news for authorities but no time for a sigh of relief. For one thing it still has to be confirmed that is indeed the so-called man in the hat you see there. And there are concerns that this arrest could speed up the timeline for other attacks it might be the works.

Our senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen joins us from Brussels with the latest. What's the latest on these raids?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi Anderson. Well, one of the main raids happened here where I am. It's actually on this sidewalk here that the police nabbed Mohamed Abrini earlier today. And he's the man who's implicated in the Paris attacks but also implicated in the Brussels attacks as well. And what the police is trying to find out whether or not he may have been the man in the hat.

Now what happened afterwards is that there was a raid down on that street over there. And throughout the better part of the evening we saw cops in the house over there going in and out. Forensic teams at work as well bringing evidence out, of course trying to find out and corroborate whether or not Mohamed Abrini was indeed the third person at the airport, but also whether or not a second man who was arrested whose name is Osama Krayem, whether or not he may have been implicated in one of the other bombings here in Brussels.

So you're absolutely right, the police are saying this is potentially a very big coup for them but certainly no reason for them to rest up, Anderson.

COOPER: Fred, from what I understand, Belgian authorities they're still looking for at least a dozen people still that may be at large, potentially connected to this attacks right?

PLEITGEN: Yeah, that's the number we're getting as well. A dozen -- around a dozen people, not just implicated in the Brussels attacks but also implicated potentially in the Paris attacks as well. And that's one of the things that so worrying for the authorities, because, you know, right after the Brussels authorities here they caught one of their main suspects called Salah Abdeslam, only three days later the Brussels attacks happened.

So of course now the authorities here are very much on the lookout to see whether or not there are still other people who might be connected to the network that conducted the Paris attack, the Brussels attack, people who could potentially still

be very, very dangerous as they've shown in the past, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah Fred Pleitgen, thanks very much.

Joining as now is CNN terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank, co-author of "Agent Storm: My Life Inside al-Qaeda and the CIA."

Paul, if this guy Abrini is the man in the hat, the third man who was at the airport, how big of a break would that be for the investigation?

[20:45:02] PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it would be a huge break in the investigation if Aabrini was the man at the airport, the man with the hat. It's a huge breakthrough anyway because Mohamed Abrini was one of the two most wanted men in Europe. The other most wanted man Osama Krayem was also arrested.

I think the language used by the Belgian Federal Prosecutor tonight was very interesting Anderson, saying that they were actively investigating whether the man with the hat at the airport was Abrini. They are very, very careful with that language. I don't think they would have said that unless there was something that was leading them in that direction. But they clearly want to be absolutely sure before making that news public.

COOPER: It was just yesterday that authorities released new video of this guy. Do we know if there was any connection between that and Abrini's arrest today?

CRUICKSHANK: They're being very tight lipped on that for operational reasons. Clearly 24 hours later, maybe it's not a coincidence, but I do know that they are investigating all sorts of leads based on all sorts of information they are getting the Belgian Police right now.

So it may have been not connected to this CCTV release, not sure all they had previously been CCTV pictures at the airport released of the man there. So not clear on that front but clearly a very big break.

Today there were five arrests in total and two very, very key arrests. But as Fred was saying, the worry now is there could be other people still at large, linked to these attackers. And they believe more than a dozen still at large who played some kind of logistical support that may just like when Salah Abdeslam was arrested before the Brussels attacks, accelerate their plans, Anderson.

COOPER: But I mean, just incredible to think that this individual, you know, was involved in the attack in Paris, according to authorities, and may have been able to turn around and months later pull off, you know, involvement in an attack in Brussels. I mean that certainly does not look good for European security forces.

CRUICKSHANK: It doesn't, and it's extraordinary. That Abrini helped drive the Paris attackers in the 48 hours before the attacks from Belgium to Paris that he sort disappeared into thin air. But we know that he returned to Brussels.

And very interestingly his DNA and fingerprints were found in the same hiding place that Salah Abdeslam was hiding out all those months. So he was there. Also his fingerprints found in that bomb factory. So he clearly is thought to have played a significant role in these attacks. But both he and Salah Abdeslam hiding in plain sight in Brussels for all these months. Hiding in the neighborhoods they grew up in, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah incredible. Paul Cruickshank, Paul thank you.

Switching gears, just ahead, my mom, Gloria Vanderbilt, and I have a new memoir out a conversation about life, love and lost. I spoke with her on camera here at CNN about the ways we're alike and the ways we're very, very different. That is coming up next.



COOPER: I know, which drives me nuts. But you've never planned, that's what the things I learned about you.

VANDERBILT: I don't plan because, you know, the phone can ring and your whole life can change.



[20:51:49] COOPER: Mother's day is one month from today. You can't say it snuck up on you this year, because now you have a whole month's notice. And I even have a suggestion for a gift this year. My mom, Gloria Vanderbilt and I have a book out called "The Rainbow Comes and Goes: A Mother and Son on Life, Love and Lost."

It's a conversation I wanted to have with my mom now that she's 92 to really get to the heart of what matters to her and what we can still learn about each other before it's too late.

It's a conversation I'm encouraging other people to have with their aging parents or anyone they love. I've been talking to her the last couple of nights about the ways that were -- and tonight it's about the ways we are the same and the ways that we couldn't be more different.


COOPER: You are the most optimistic person I think I know. VANDERBILT: Yes. Because I'm determined, you know, I'm determined to do the best I can to make it come out OK.

COOPER: You think that the next great love, the next great adventure is right around the corner.

VANDERBILT: Absolutely.

COOPER: Even now at 92?

VANDERBILT: Even now, yes.

COOPER: The thing one thing is I took away is just how similar we are in ways that I didn't even really realize that, you know, I always thought I was probably more similar to daddy and that we looked a lot alike and but ...

VANDERBILT: No, that's for sure.

COOPER: But the sort of drive that you have, I realize is the same as the drive that I have. I mean it's expressed in different ways. But have you always felt that determination to survive?

VANDERBILT: Yes, I always wanted to make something of my life and I wanted to, you know, i think it's called a rage to live.

COOPER: That's what you have, a rage to live?

VANDERBILT: Yes, I always had the rage to live and I wanted to make something of my life and I wanted to -- I've always had, you know, very deep feelings and deep passions and great loves and great sadness and, you know, great joy and -- but it has been that rage to live. You never lose that if you have it, you know.

COOPER: One of the ways that we're different and I talked about you being an optimistic. I think much more of sort of catastrophes, I expect -- I expect another some tragedy or bad things to happen.

The title of the book, "The Rainbow Comes and Goes" which comes from a words with poem, you used to say, you know, when someone had say how are things, and you say, oh, you know, the rainbow comes and goes. To you what does that mean to you?

VANDERBILT: I think it's obvious. The great joy comes, and then it goes. But it comes back again. I mean, it's a circle.

COOPER: But you are convinced it's always going to come back? ...

VANDERBILT: Oh absolutely.

COOPER: ... the rainbow is always going to come back?

VANDERBILT: I mean that sentence goes is not the end of the sentence.

COOPER: But you see ...

VANDERBILT: It goes right back to the beginning again.

COOPER: I view it a little darker which is the rainbow comes and goes. You know, good things happen and then followed by bad, but the rainbow may come back which it does in nature but how do you know you're going to be there when the rainbow comes back?

VANDERBILT: Well, of course you don't. You just hang in there, you know.

COOPER: But how do you know you're going to be in the right street at the right time in the right place?

VANDERBILT: But you just have to have a kind of gut faith and ...

COOPER: See, I would rather plan for the times when the rainbow isn't there and when it's dark and cold and you have to ...

VANDERBILT: I don't plan at all.

COOPER: I know, which drives me nuts. But you've never planned, that's what of this things I learned about you.

VANDERBILT: I have never plan. I don't plan because, you know, the phone can ring and your whole life can change. I mean wonderful things can happen. And you don't -- I mean, all of the sort of wonderful things that have happened to me, it's all -- it was unplanned, it's unexpected.

[20:55:16] COOPER: You see I think the phone can ring and your whole life can change.

VANDERBILT: Oh well it can.

COOPER: But I don't see that as a positive.

VANDERBILT: Well it can be terrible, too, of course. But you have to kind of hang in there and wait until the next call comes in.

COOPER: Mom, thanks.

VANDERBILT: Thank you, sweetheart. OK.


COOPER: Our book "The Rainbow Comes and Goes" is available in stores. Now my mom and I also in a new documentary called "Nothing Left Unsaid." it premieres tomorrow on HBO at 9:00 p.m. eastern time.

We'll be right back.


COOPER: This Sunday on CNN a new episode of the CNN Original Series "Race for the White House," including the 1992 presidential campaign and all it entailed. Take a look.


GENNIFER FLOWERS, NIGHTCLUB SINGER: Yes, I was Bill Clinton's lover for 12 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton is denying allegations he carried on an extramarital affair with a former nightclub singer.

JAMES CARVILLE, BILL CLINTON'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: He said it wasn't true. If it was true, it's hardly disqualifying thing to run for president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a good night.

CARVILLE: When the story hit, the option was, what is the most vigorous response that we can give to deal with this. You knew you had to be aggressive.


[21:00:10] COOPER: "Race for the White House" Sunday, 9:00 p.m. eastern, that's another good one.

Right now, "CNN Tonight" with Don Lemon.