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Former Commanders Turn against ISIS; CDC Says Zika is Scarier than First Thought; Trump and Mexican President Clash on Wall; Kidnapped Girls Used as Boko Haram Human Bombs; Most Men Get Higher Salary Offers Than Women. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 12, 2016 - 10:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST (voice-over): Ahead at the INTERNATIONAL DESK, ISIS in Afghanistan. Why former Taliban fighters turned against the group.
North Korea could be close to testing a new long-range missile.
And we'll talk to the former Mexican president, who is in a war of words with Donald Trump.
CURNOW: Hi, everyone, welcome, I'm Robyn Curnow.
We begin in Afghanistan, where just hours ago the Taliban began their spring offensive. It's an annual wave of attacks but it's just one factor
of life there. The country has been at war for over a decade. And just last year ISIS took root. Their tactics are terrifying even to some of
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh talked to two former ISIS commanders, who chose to defect. He joins us now from Kabul.
Hi, there, Nick.
What did they say to you?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Robyn, remarkable to see how hard a fighter who spent years with the Taliban could so quickly be
repulsed by the savagery of ISIS. But it is one particular bright spot here in Afghanistan in the east, where ISIS has tried to take root. They
are finding many Afghans, despite being immersed in decades of war, sickened by their ideology and tactics.
WALSH (voice-over): Looking for ISIS, in Afghanistan's east, ISIS' radio broadcast of hate was bombed off air recently by the U.S. But here it's
been coming back in the past week.
"It was there three days ago and it's gone again," says one man.
"They were talking nonsense," says another.
"They were asking people to pledge allegiance and march on Kabul," he adds.
This is one broadcast they recorded earlier. ISIS is trying to put down roots here. But every day more Afghans want to tear them up.
And that starts here with Arabistan and Zaitoun. Two months ago, they were (INAUDIBLE) commanders in ISIS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They just like beheadings. Think they are good to do.
WALSH (voice-over): ISIS, they say, came from Pakistan, not Iraq, and promised guns and money to their struggling group of Taliban. Their
agenda: black flags, killing and looting, which they did go along with at first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (INAUDIBLE) The poor, they would arm to fight for them or kill them.
WALSH (voice-over): It went south fast. And they both remember the moment when.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I remember when they beheaded seven people in the bazaar, including government workers and Pakistani
Taliban. I saw the long strip of wood they did it on, covered in blood. They just threw the bodies away and buried. It was very un-Islamic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The worst memory was if you were killed fighting for them, they wouldn't hand your wife and children to your
predators but put them in a camp.
WALSH (voice-over): ISIS recruit children here, their own videos show another reason the two men work with Afghan intelligence and set up our
interview to get other locals to join an uprising program against ISIS.
But they say they have lacked government protection and money and that's put potential defectors off. The fight is now just left to American
drones, they say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Drones are doing a good job killing ISIS. They target them as soon as they leave their houses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The government hasn't made any progress in those areas. It's only the bombing that's effective.
WALSH: You were in the Taliban. Then you were in ISIS and now American drones are bombing your own village. But you're pleased about it because
they are killing ISIS.
Is that not a strange feeling for you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It makes us happy. We want them wiped out.
WALSH (voice-over): They're killers themselves who know what they are talking about. Arabistan holds up his cloak. Holes from an American
helicopter attack not long ago when he was Taliban.
ISIS has shattered ordinary lives, too. Across town in a luxury village built for rich people who never came are hundreds of families who fled
Afghanistan, like many nations afflicted by ISIS basically have to battle an idea, a kind of virus that appeals to minds warped after decades of war.
Those in the Taliban, as radical enough an idea, that no matter how hard you battle or bomb it, it's very difficult to completely extinguish.
WALSH (voice-over): Many of their homes are still occupied and much damage is irreversible. They killed this man's brother and then shot him in the
waist as he helped his family escape. He's left unable to provide for them and ISIS still live in their home.
WALSH (voice-over): ISIS' savagery was first glimpsed in Afghanistan in this video, when they lined up opponents and then detonated a bomb below
them. The man who speaks is survived by his nephew, Rustam (ph).
RUSTAM, ISIS VICTIM'S NEPHEW (through translator): My brother called our father to tell him the death was on Facebook. We couldn't bury him as we
didn't have a body. Its pieces are probably still lying where he was blown up.
WALSH (voice-over): Decades of trauma here, yet somehow it gets worse.
WALSH: Now (INAUDIBLE) Afghanistan ISIS early last year (INAUDIBLE) have been pushed back by most accounts at this stage, partly due to a lot of
American airpower as well and a bid by the Afghan government and others to put together these local militias, militant groups against ISIS to try and
kick them out of their own towns. But they are still there. You heard their radio is still audible by some locals and they are said still to be
on the move. Their major concern is how this has attracted security forces from the border task of fighting the resurgent Taliban uncertainty --
CURNOW: OK. They have a few problems there with Nick's comments; of course he's coming from Kabul, but great reporting there. Thanks to Nick
We're moving on to Brussels now, where police picked up three more people in connection with the Paris terror attacks. They have until Wednesday to
decide whether to keep them in custody.
Meantime, two more people have been charged in connection with last month's bombings at the Brussels airport and a metro station. The prosecutor says
the two are linked to an address that was raided over the weekend, which may have been a safe house for some of the bombers.
And North Korea may be preparing the launch of a mobile long-range ballistic missile. That's according to U.S. officials, who tell CNN it
could be a type of missile that's able to reach parts of Alaska. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins us now live.
Hi, there, Barbara.
So what are U.S. intelligence satellites spotting here?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good day, Robyn. Well, this is all very interesting. What they are seeing is evidence that North Korea
may be preparing for the launch of a mobile ballistic missile. This would be a missile of a longer range than has been seen in the past.
Previously they have just launched some short-range missiles. They have three versions of a mobile missile that has never been flight-tested
before. These various versions could hit as far, if they work, as far as Guam, Alaska and the United States' Pacific Northwest. So that's an
Now what they don't know if North Korea will proceed with the launch and which missile it might be. North Korea could still decide not to conduct
the launch. They've never done this before.
So if it happens, it really resets the table on what their military capability might be. That is why there is so much concern about this.
Also to point out the U.S. isn't clear if those missiles really have the accuracy and the range as advertised. So if this happens in the coming
days and weeks, they will be watching very carefully, trying to assess, how far, how complex, how sophisticated North Korea may be in this missile
But the fact they are seeing the signs that it could be happening is a matter of great concern, obviously -- Robyn.
CURNOW: Indeed, and, Barbara, the fact that it's mobile is what is of concern here because North Korea has successfully twice launched a three-
stage ballistic missile but satellites were able to watch all the preparations for that --
CURNOW: They weren't mobile; the fact that they were mobile is key.
STARR: Absolutely right. This is the key issue for the -- for the U.S. military and the allies in the region. If you have that three-stage
missile on a launch pad and it's stationary and fixed, you can keep an eye on it. You know when it's about ready to launch.
With mobile missiles these are on these large essentially trucks that you see at these military parades. They move around; in the event of a
conflict, North Korea could shoot at the missile, move the truck, shoot again, keep moving around, it makes it very difficult for spy satellites to
chase them down in conflict.
And makes it very difficult right now to know if and when they are going to launch. U.S. officials say they may not know until the last minute and it
could all happen with very little warning -- Robyn.
CURNOW: OK. From the Pentagon, thanks so much, Barbara Starr there.
Well, now to new fears about the Zika virus in the U.S. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the mosquito that spreads Zika is more
widespread than they thought. It's in 30 U.S. states instead of 12.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CDC: Everything we look at with this virus seems to be a bit scarier than we initially thought. And
so while we absolutely hope we don't see widespread local transmission in the continental U.S., we need the states to be ready for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: The CDC also warns Zika has been linked to more birth defects for a longer period during pregnancy. The main fear has been the defect --
CURNOW: -- called microcephaly, which affects the size of a baby's brain. And officials say in Puerto Rico, there may be hundreds of thousands of
Zika cases affecting hundreds of babies.
We're joined now by CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, who's just back from Puerto Rico.
I want to talk about your trip in just a moment. But first, really ominous warnings there from the CDC, saying it's scarier.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zika is a relatively new virus, Robyn. It hasn't really been with us for long. So as it
spreads, we're learning more and more about it.
So it may have always been this scary. We just didn't know it. You mentioned microcephaly, which is babies with these markedly smaller heads.
And that was the concern. Months ago, that's really all anybody talked about when it came to babies.
But now they are seeing babies born also with vision problems. They are also seeing stillbirths, babies who aren't even alive when they are born.
They are also seeing other neurological problems, not just small heads but when they look at the anatomy afterwards, they see, oh, my goodness,
there's problems even within this head which is too small.
So these are all things that -- it's not just microcephaly anymore. There are many other concerns for babies.
CURNOW: And also just briefly, it's not just concerns about in the first trimester, either, which is very key for pregnant women traveling to these
areas and potentially in the U.S.
COHEN: That's right. I think that it's -- again, this is so new that no one knew for sure. But when I was talking to experts two months ago, they
would say, well, Elizabeth, we think that this is an issue if you get infected in the first trimester.
But now there are concerns maybe if a mosquito bites you and infects you even in the second or the third trimester, it could be a problem. And the
issue is even if you are bit in the first trimester, often the problems won't show up until mid-way through pregnancy. So deciding whether or not
to terminate a pregnancy when you're halfway through it is a horrific decision.
CURNOW: Horrible, horrible choice.
With that in mind, tell us about your trip and some of the women that you met who were pregnant over there.
COHEN: Right. I was with a woman named Zolmira Smolina (ph), and she was getting an ultrasound. This was March 31st. She was 22 weeks pregnant.
And so you can see that she went to the hospital; she got an ultrasound, 22 weeks pregnant, so just past the midway mark. Her ultrasounds at 18 weeks
looked fine. The ultrasounds before that had looked fine.
But when they looked at this ultrasound, they found that the baby's head, the growth was lagging, as her doctor put it. It might be a fluke.
The next ultrasound, which is tomorrow, might be completely fine.
But it was not good that it was in a certain percentile in 18 weeks and was in a much lower percentile at 22 weeks. And so she's going to keep this
baby. She says no matter what they find, she's keeping this baby.
Other women have made different decisions. In Slovenia, here in the United States, women have made decisions to terminate.
CURNOW: But still, the fact that you're having to make that decision and so many hundreds perhaps are having to make that decision so late in
pregnancy is a real concern.
Thanks so much, Elizabeth, appreciate it.
Coming up, yet another Donald Trump feud. The former president of Mexico has been blasting Trump for weeks now. We'll talk to him live at the
And Brazil's president is closer to being ousted from power just months before the Olympics. We'll go live to Rio for the latest on the
proceedings she calls a coup. Stay with us.
CURNOW: Turning to the U.S. presidential race, Republican Donald Trump is feeling the heat of the delegate math and he's using it to stoke the
outrage of his supporters.
CNN's Phil Mattingly has this story.
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump sounding off.
TRUMP: It's a fix. They said they are going to do it by delegate. Oh, isn't that nice.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Criticizing the primary system in Colorado after losing all 34 state delegates to Ted Cruz over the weekend. RNC chairman
Reince Priebus taking to Twitter to defend the process.
Writing, "The rules were set last year. Nothing mysterious. Nothing new. The rules have not changed."
Ted Cruz also responding to Trump's frustration at a rally in California.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Donald, it ain't stealing when the voters vote against you. It is the voters reclaiming this country and reclaiming
MATTINGLY (voice-over): And blaming the front-runner's losses on the failures of Trump's own campaign.
CRUZ: Their team is not remotely organizing on the ground. It's not based on the people. Donald is about Donald.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): John Kasich acknowledging the complex delegate rules in a CNN town hall last night.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a bizarre process. I'm not really in the middle of it.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Colorado just the latest state where Trump has been outmaneuvered by Cruz in key delegate fights.
TRUMP: When everything is done, I find out I get less delegates than this guy that got his ass kicked. OK? Give me a break.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Trump looking to New York to shift the tide back in his favor.
TRUMP: He's lying Ted Cruz, folks. Remember that. And he does not like the people of New York and that came out loud and clear.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Even though his own children missed the registration deadline and won't be able to vote for their father in his
TRUMP: They were unaware of the rules. I think they have to register a year in advance. So Eric and Ivanka I guess won't be voting.
CURNOW: Phil Mattingly there.
Donald Trump is facing increasing criticism from south of the U.S. border as well, particularly from Vicente Fox, the former Mexican president. Fox
wrote an editorial last week, calling Trump a, quote, "dictator" and a "false prophet" and accusing him of having, in his words, "egocentric and
xenophobic dreams." Fox has also used rather salty language on live TV and on Twitter to attack Trump's plans to build a border wall.
And Trump is firing back. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Did you see the Mexican president, the former Mexican president?
Did you see that?
Vicente, Vicente. So he said there's no way that we're going to pay for the -- then he used the F bomb. Right?
Can you imagine if I used the F bomb what would have happened?
Nobody even talked about it.
But we have made progress because two years ago, he used to say there's no way we're going to build a wall. Now he just says there's no way we're
going to pay for the wall. Trust me, they are going to pay for the wall, folks. They are going to pay for the wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Well, I'd like to welcome the former Mexican president to the program.
Hi, there, Mr. Fox. You're joining me from Mexico via Skype.
Mr. Trump actually said that yesterday. He's clearly irritated with what you're saying, even if he's mispronouncing your name. You hit a nerve.
VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, hello and thank you for this opportunity.
Hello, United States. Let me tell you that I --
CURNOW: You're actually going to the world, Mr. Fox. This is CNN International, not CNN USA. So this is -- I think you might have a lot of
people outside looking into the U.S. election race in the same way perhaps you are.
But I just want your response in terms of Mr. Trump's comments. You do seem to have struck a chord with him.
FOX: It's absolutely an ignorant proposal. He doesn't understand history. He's not understanding economy. He doesn't understand how the world works.
We all leaders outside of United States feel very worried about this new voice that we are hearing of the Republican Party and of the United States.
Their real leader in the world is United States. And we have been working together and building a better world for all of us. So I am part of the
United States. My grandfather was born in Cincinnati, Ohio.
FOX: He migrated into Mexico back in 1895 without a penny in his pocket, looking for his American dream and he found it here in Mexico.
CURNOW: So when we talk about the American dream, Mr. President, what happens if Mr. Trump does become the U.S. president?
What will the impact be, you think, I mean, on one level, for Mexican-U.S. relations but further beyond that?
FOX: First, loser (ph) is the same United States because that's not the kind of leadership that the world needs today. That's not the way to
propose economic policy to get within four walls and forget about the rest of the world. That's what President Hoover did a long time ago. He
limited an investment of U.S. corporations abroad on the understanding that he wanted to keep the jobs within the United States.
He also imposed high taxation to imports into the United States, again, in trying to protect the jobs. And the consequence was the highest, the most
profound depression that country has ever seen. That's the consequence of that kind of policies.
He is claiming that he will go into a war with his Mexican trade partner. I don't know if he knows that Mexico imports from United States about 750
billion U.S. dollars that account for 6 percent of all the jobs in the United States for U.S. citizens.
We're talking about 10 million jobs that are generated and not produced because of Mexico's trading with the United States. He cannot just impose
a taxation to cars coming from abroad because you, the taxpayers in the United States, will have to pay 40 percent more for each car you're buying.
So it's very stupid economic proposals he's making.
CURNOW: You say stupid. You've called him ignorant. But also you have called Mr. Trump Hitler and a dictator, strong words even for a man who's
called Mexicans rapists and criminals.
FOX: No doubt. He's arrogant, he's egocentric and he thinks that what he proposes is to be converted into law and constitution. And that's why I
call him a dictator because we in Latin America, we suffered from that evil all the 20th century.
We have enough experience on that to learn who shows on the genius (ph). He shows on his talking, who shows on his proposals that once he sits on
the presidential chair, the chair of power, he will become a dictator. No doubt we know about that in Latin America. We learn from Castro that he
spoke softly at the beginning. We learned from Hugo Chavez. We learned from Evo Morales. We have got so many of them that we know when a guy is
not speaking the truth, is a false prophet and is going to take that nation to the desert.
CURNOW: So with that in mind, why are you sticking your neck out?
Why are you engaging in a Twitter war in many ways with Mr. Trump and you're writing these op-eds?
You're being very, very vocal, one of the most vocal Mexicans in terms of reacting to Mr. Trump's views.
Are you doing this out of personal outrage or are you trying to defend the whole Mexican nation essentially?
FOX: Yes. Why not only me but all leaders in Latin American nations think the same. The United States is very powerful. It's already very powerful
and very strong. United States runs one-third of the total world economy. And by trading and by doing business together, we benefit all nations
around the world. And that's why we worry because foreign policy in the United States cannot only be addressed to its own people within the four
walls that he's proposing.
Foreign policy is shared by other leaders. We work together to put that policy. We work against criminality. We work against drugs. We work
against terrorists and altogether we do it in Mexico. We have a very safe border in that respect. We really are very careful in issuing visas.
Never a terrorist has come out of Mexico. They came through Canada or through just flying in.
So I don't know why the confusion, why this guy is dedicated to destroying Mexico, to offending Mexicans. He doesn't know the enormous contribution
that Mexican and all migrants do in United States.
FOX: And I want to think about the Indians, the people from India, the people from Europe, if he does this to Mexico, who is going to be next?
So the whole world now is united in advising, in sending the message to the United States, you cannot sit in that chair, the chair that sat President
Washington, President Jefferson, President Abraham Lincoln, President Kennedy, President Reagan. You cannot sit in that chair, this guy.
CURNOW: Thank you so much for your perspective, the global view there on Donald Trump. Vicente Fox, former president of Mexico, thanks for joining
FOX: Thank you very much.
Wake up, America.
CURNOW: Thank you very much to him.
Well, Brazil's political crisis -- we're going to stay in the region -- has entered a critical new phase. A congressional committee has voted in favor
of impeaching President Dilma Rousseff. Now the measure moves closer to the full lower house, which could vote on Sunday. Ms. Rousseff is accused
of trying to hide budget shortfalls while running for reelection in 2014.
Well, let's get more on this from Shasta Darlington. She's in Rio de Janeiro.
Hi, there, Shasta. It was a very rowdy committee vote last night.
What does that mean for the bigger vote on Sunday?
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, it certainly means it won't be quiet. You're right. The committee vote
lasted all day into the night. Lawmakers shouting at each other and insulting each other. They finally voted 38-27 in favor of impeachment.
And while that vote isn't binding, it really shows what direction this is going, kind of a snapshot of the political landscape, if you will. And
what we've seen is while they didn't get the two-thirds, which is what the opposition will need when this goes to the full lower house on Sunday, more
and more allies and coalition members are dropping off and abandoning Rousseff.
So we expect this to really come down to the wire. Nobody can predict with any certainty whether or not the impeachment trial will be approved by
those two-thirds on Sunday. But it's going to be a nail-biter -- Robyn.
CURNOW: A nail-biter, also questions about the timing. Obviously, this is a very big year with the Olympics.
What happens in Brazil if this impeachment trial goes forward?
What are the consequences of this?
DARLINGTON: I think it's a great question and the answer is constantly changing. You could see from investors and markets there was a lot of
enthusiasm initially for this impeachment proceeding. They think if they can get President Rousseff and the Workers' Party out of office, this
prolonged recession will finally turn around.
Also because while she defends herself in an impeachment trial she would be replaced by her vice president, Michel Temer, who comes from another, more
centrist party. He's considered more market-friendly.
But as we get closer to this, what we're seeing is this is going to be a long, drawn-out fight. She isn't going to go down easily. And her
supporters could even use the Olympics as a political stage to voice their discontent -- Robyn.
CURNOW: In Rio, thanks so much for that, Shasta Darlington.
Still ahead here at CNN, hundreds of Nigerian girls kidnapped and forced into terror. We'll take you to a refugee camp to hear from a survivor of
CURNOW: Welcome to the INTERNATIONAL DESK. Thanks for joining me. I'm Robyn Curnow. Here's a check of the headlines.
CURNOW: A terrifying new reality for children. UNICEF says the number forced to take part in so-called suicide attacks in Northern Nigeria and
neighboring countries has jumped dramatically. That's where Boko Haram has waged its campaign of terror over the past two years.
The place with the most young human bombs: Cameroon. And of all the so- called suicide bombings involving children, three out of four of them involved girls. Our David McKenzie has been following all of this. He
recently went to a refugee camp in Cameroon to talk about those fleeing Boko Haram. He joins me now from Johannesburg.
Hi, there, Dave. And we have been very careful about saying "suicide bombers" because that's not the case. These are human bombs. There's not
really a choice in many ways involved with these little girls becoming, as we said, human bombs.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, that's right. The shorthand that's often used is "suicide bombers" and we have heard that
term used for years now. But this isn't the case with these young girls. They are often kidnapped to kill.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Fati (ph) wears the jewelry given to her by her mother and the wedding dress from her rapist, the terrorist from Boko
FATI (PH) (through translator): They came to our village with guns and told us they wanted to marry us.
We said, "No, we are too small."
So they married us by force.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Fati (ph) isn't her real name. We must hide her identity for her safety. She was just 14. And her nightmare was just
Boko Haram took her to Sambisa Forest but their stronghold was under attack.
FATI (PH) (through translator): The jets dropped bombs and bullets on us in the forest all the time. All of the girls were so frightened. All of
them. They always cried. And the men raped us.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): It was full of abducted girls, she says, many from Chibok, living the nightmare with her.
FATI (PH) (through translator): Boko Haram leaders would come to us and ask, "Who wants to do the suicide bomb?"
And the girls would say, "Me, me, me."
They were shouting. They were even fighting to do the suicide bombs.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): At first, Fati (ph) thought that the girls were brainwashed, buying into Boko Haram's brutal jihad.
FATI (PH) (through translator): But it was just because they want to run away from Boko Haram. If they give them a suicide bomb, then maybe they
would meet soldiers and tell them, "I have a bomb on me," and they would remove the bomb. Perhaps they can run away.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): We find Fati (ph) in Minawao refugee camp in far north Cameroon.
As Boko Haram swept through their villages, Nigerians fled here in the thousands. Now the camp is at more than double capacity.
Just beyond those hills is Boko Haram territory. Security officials say the group has infiltrated the camp. Boko Haram often uses abducted
children in their attacks so many here fear young girls the most.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they see somebody escape from Boko Haram, they feel like they are together with the Boko Haram, is the Boko Haram that
free you to go and do suicide bombs.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Fati (ph) never volunteered. Her captor defected and got arrested near the border.
FATI (PH) (through translator): I was free.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Now she's reunited with her mother, who traveled days to get here. But Fati (ph) says many others like her are still held
captive in Sambisa --
MCKENZIE (voice-over): -- so desperate to flee the forest they will volunteer to die so perhaps they can live.
MCKENZIE: What is staggering, Robyn, is not just the personal, horrifying ordeal that girls like Fati (ph) went through but the whole society in that
region of Cameroon has turned on its head. Young girls and young women should be protected in those regions.
But people fear them, including soldiers, vigilante groups and even other children we spoke to say they fear anyone who might have spent time with
Boko Haram -- Robyn.
CURNOW: Yes, ironic how the most vulnerable in society have become the most feared here. And you had a great line in your piece, saying these
kids volunteered to die so perhaps they may live. It's just horrifying.
With that in mind, there's also a really sad anniversary coming up. Still a lot of questions. You kind of mentioned some of the Chibok girls in your
But did you find out anything else about them?
MCKENZIE: What Fati (ph) said was that the Chibok, at least some of them - - and now that's the group of more than 200 young schoolgirls who were taken from their school in Chibok, Nigeria, and sparked off the social
media and celebrity campaign, Bring Back Our Girls, which hasn't seen them come back two years in a couple of days until -- from that tragic event.
Obviously, thousands, hundreds of other girls have also been kidnapped. She said that those girls, some of them, many of them, she said, were in
her unit in the Sambisa Forest. She says tragically some of them have been killed with those bombing campaigns that are done by the Nigerian air
But all this time afterwards, those girls and many others are still kidnapped by Boko Haram, even though the militaries of that region are
gaining ground against the terror group.
CURNOW: So these girls having to deal with bombings in Sambisa Forest, rape as well as hunger. David McKenzie and your team, thanks so much for
You're watching CNN and we've have much more news after this short break.
CURNOW: Britain's Prince William and Katherine had lunch with India's prime minister. They continue their tour of India. Now Narendra Modi
welcomed them at a former palace designed by a British architect.
The lunch included a performance by a renowned Indian classical musician and the royal couple headed to a national park, which is home to one-horned
rhinos and other endangered species.
And doesn't Kate look fabulous?
Well, a new study reaffirms what people already know. There's a big workplace salary gap between men and women. The job site Hired says men
receive higher offers for the same positions seven out of 10 times. And for some professions women face a struggle just to break in even.
CURNOW: However, career coaches say one reason the pay gap exists is because women simply aren't (INAUDIBLE) is asking for a raise. Well, Clare
Sebastian and Samuel Burke put their negotiating skills to the test.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's that moment many of us dread.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And some of us look forward to.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): The long walk to the boss' office to ask that crucial question.
Can I have a raise?
Last year, "Glamour" magazine found 57 percent of women have never asked for a raise.
BURKE (voice-over): Compared to just 46 percent of men.
SEBASTIAN: We wanted to find out why. So Samuel and I are submitting ourselves to an experiment.
BURKE: So we invited a top New York career coach to the CNN offices and she's going to pretend to be our boss as we do some mock salary
SEBASTIAN: And we're going to see who performs best.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reality is that men have been conditioned to negotiate because they were earners and because their value has been
equated to the amount of money that they bring in; whereas we have not over the course of history.
BURKE (voice-over): For the experiment we're using our real jobs, CNN journalists.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): And, of course, our real personalities.
BURKE (voice-over): Everything is based on general aspects of this industry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
SEBASTIAN: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm good, how are you?
BURKE: Hey, boss, good to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good to see you.
What can I do for you today?
BURKE: Well, I have been going over some of the numbers with HR.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Right from the start, the difference is stark.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Scattered eye contact and your body language was sort of hanging back a bit. And the wringing of the hands.
Sam came in very forcefully. He was face forward here, strong spine, very confident in the way that he projected his ask.
Generally, the raise that we give to everyone every year for good performance is 3 percent.
BURKE (voice-over): We both decided to ask for more than 3 percent, the average pay rise across major U.S. employers this year.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): We didn't tell each other exactly how much more.
SEBASTIAN: So I wanted to discuss whether we could look at perhaps a slightly higher-than-average increase this year, maybe around 6 percent.
BURKE: I really think that a 10 percent raise would be reflective of the type of work that I have been doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's an issue because most women will come in and negotiate at their bottom line.
If you do not come in at higher than what you want, there's nowhere to meet in the middle.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): So first, you start high.
BURKE (voice-over): Then you have to justify it.
BURKE: It's the sponsorships that I have brought in for the company. The segments I have been doing have been bringing in more money continuously
than any of the other people in our group.
SEBASTIAN: I have been mentoring a lot of the younger members of the team. I'm helping them to kind of discover their own talent.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): While I talked about what HR execs call soft skills --
BURKE (voice-over): I went straight for the bottom line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a very standard, expected gender differential in the way that men and women negotiate. But when it comes to money, money
has to equal money. And so what you're bringing in really needs to be the first justification.
BURKE: Did we get the raise?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SEBASTIAN: Both of us?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both of you.
BURKE: Different amounts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Different amounts, of course, though because (INAUDIBLE).
I could come back and say to him, fine, you're getting 6 percent.
You asked for 10 percent; I got you 6 percent. You probably would have ended up with 5 percent.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Clare Sebastian --
BURKE (voice-over): And Samuel Burke --
CNNMoney New York.
Congratulations on your raise.
SEBASTIAN: Thank you, you, too, well done.
CURNOW: Some good lessons there.
That does it for us here at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Robyn Curnow. I'll be back in just over an hour. But in the meantime, I'm going to send
you over to "WORLD SPORT" and Alex Thomas. Stay with us.