Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Democratic Debate; Republican Party Unity. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 15, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You and your team have been doing an amazing job for all of us, all of our viewers here in the United States around the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for doing this great, great reporting.

That's it for me. The news continues right now on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Happy Friday. Thank you so much for being with me. Of course you are watching CNN.

The alliterations abound today to describe exactly how combative CNN's Democratic presidential debate got. Examples, "Brooklyn brawlers," "Democrats duel," "hometown hostility," all to describe how Bernie Sanders is in it to win the presidency despite his delegate deficit in polls, like this latest one showing Hillary Clinton's dominance in New York. Look at that, double digit lead she has. It's pivotal delegate rich primary just four days away. Remember those friendly debate days when Senator Sanders decried questions on Secretary Clinton's quote/unquote "damn e-mails"? Well, that's a thing of the past. At this moment, it now shows the fingers are pointed, the eyebrows are raised. Ladies and gentlemen, the gloves are off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Does secretary Clinton have the experience and the intelligence to be a president? Of course she does. But I do question - but I do question her judgment. I question a judgment which voted for the war in Iraq, the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of this country.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you go and read, which I hope all of you will before Tuesday, Senator Sanders long interview with "The New York Daily News," talk about judgment and talk about the kinds of problems he had answering questions about even his core issue, breaking up the banks. When asked, he could not explain how that would be done.

SANDERS: Do we really feel confident about a candidate saying that she's going to bring change in America when she is so dependent by big money interests? I don't think so.

CLINTON: This is a serious difference between us and what I want to start by saying - it's not a laughing matter. Ninety people on average a day are killed or commit suicide or die in accidents from guns, 33,000 people a year. I take it really seriously.

SANDERS: I am sure a lot of people are very surprised to learn that you supported raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour.

CLINTON: You know, wait a minute.

SANDERS: (INAUDIBLE) that's just not accurate.

CLINTON: Wait a minute. Wait - wait - come on, I have stood on -

SANDERS: Wolf - Wolf, can I -

CLINTON: The debate stage with Senator Sanders eight prior times.

SANDERS: (INAUDIBLE), excuse me, Wolf.

CLINTON: I have said the exact same thing.

BLITZER: Secretary, senator, please -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow, what a debate. I couldn't turn away. I couldn't turn away, Wolf Blitzer. You were in the middle of it. You did a phenomenal job as the moderator. So, congratulations to you, my friend. I also tip my hat, of course, to Dana and Errol. But I think at one point you said, you know, if you keep screaming or yelling on top of one another, the audience won't hear you. What was it like up there?

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Well, the audience in Brooklyn at that auditorium there, they were having trouble, once they started going back and forth speaking at the same time, certainly the viewers at home. So I just wanted to remind them, unless they have the patience, let the individual speak, one at a time, the audience at home is not going to hear them. They're going to just be frustrated and angry at both of them. And, fortunately, after I admonished them at that point, for the rest of the debate, they were pretty good.

They - they went at it. This was a debate. They have different points view. A lot of undecided voters out there. It's important that the voters know precisely where they stand on some of the most important, domestic and national security issues out there. And I think it was pretty good after that. But at that one point they really got into it and I just wanted to warn them, you know, be polite to the viewers out there. Respect the viewers who can't understand what they're saying if they're both screaming at each other at the same time.

BALDWIN: Wolf, was there any one moment that just surprised you the most or sort of made you, you know, really turn your head and look up sometime? I mean you've done this a few times. What really stood out for you last night?

BLITZER: Well, I - I was - I guess there were, on some of the most important issues, they were very, very forceful. I think what surprised me the most is when I asked that first question to Senator Sanders about Hillary Clinton's judgment, is it the right judgment to be president of the United States. I was surprised how hard he came out of that. And he said, yes, she's qualified, yes, she's got experience, but look at her judgment, look at her judgment on that - that vote to go to war in favor of the Iraq War. Look at her judgment in supporting free trade agreements that have hurt American workers. Look at her judgment in her support for Wall Street, all of that. I knew he was going to be tough, but I was surprised at how tough he was right out of the gate and then how tough she was coming right back at him talking about his judgment and that sort of set the scene for those two hours.

[14:05:07] BALDWIN: Final question, just quickly, because it felt like really the audience played a role in the debate last night. You would hear them, you know, jumping in. And can you just explain to the people at home, who's seated at those debates?

BLITZER: Well, there are - there were about 1,000 people in that building. About - and you tried to distribute the tickets evenly between the Democratic National Committee gets some tickets. But between the two campaigns, they get an equal amount of seats. So clearly the Bernie Sanders supports, the people who got the tickets from their campaign, from the Sanders campaign, they were a lot more vocal than the Hillary Clinton supporters. A lot of the Hillary Clinton supporters, they were there in equal numbers, but they were not as - they weren't shouting as much as the Bernie Sanders supporters. The Bernie Sanders supporters, many of them are a lot younger. They're very passionate. They strongly believe in what he's proposing, free college education, universal health care for all. All of those issues really hit home to a lot of those people, especially the younger people, and they made their views known. They came ready to go. The Hillary Clinton supporters, they were there in equal numbers, but they were a bit more subdued.

BALDWIN: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We'll see you on "The Situation Room" at 5:00 Eastern, of course, as always.

Meantime, after the two presidential candidates answered all those big questions, there's now really one overarching question remaining, which Democrat won the debate? Let me bring in "The Daily Beast" Washington bureau chief Jackie Kucinich and CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny.

So nice to talk to Wolf just to get that sort of firsthand perspective of -

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT. Right.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": Yes.

BALDWIN: I mean, seriously, just every second, I was - I was truly, truly compelled. And I think one of the tweets, it was pointed out to me this morning, this is from Josh over a talking points memo. He tweeted, "I'm not sure I've heard two candidates yell at each other at such sustained clip for two full hours and they're both over 65. That's stamina."

KUCINICH: Yes. It was impressive.

BALDWIN: I mean it's tongue and cheek -

ZELENY: Right.

BALDWIN: But it was impressive.

ZELENY: Sure.

KUCINICH: Wolf needed a whistle at some point. I mean I think that would have actually helped break them up. But, no, this was intense. And it just shows how high the stakes are here in New York.

BALDWIN: It's changed.

KUCINICH: It's changed. It's changed. And, you know, it was very clear they're both kind of sick of each other and that the stage wasn't - this race is no longer big enough for the both of them. It's sort of, it's end time. And Clinton wants to wrap this up and Sanders wants to make the case why he should keep going.

BALDWIN: He came to play, it seemed to me. It seemed to me he thinks he can win and she couldn't think general election. She had to sharpen her elbows to the man to the left.

ZELENY: No doubt. And this is what Bernie Sanders has been doing in these rallies. He has these big rallies across the country, across New York. And there should have been no surprises from the Clinton campaign. And there weren't. I mean she was ready for everything he said, but vice versa. You know, she - I think the - he seemed to be a little bit more rattled last night I thought. For a couple debates ago, I thought he was in her head. Last night it seemed to me she was in his head. He was a little bit I think unable to make his case at the beginning to a broader audience. His supporters are always going to love him about the, you know, the Wall Street, the speeches, whatever. I'm not so sure that he was able to really sort of expand his appeal though and that's maybe what he needed to do last night. But, you know, who was a winner? I think it was a draw.

KUCINICH: Yes.

ZELENY: A total draw here. And, you know, I feel sorry for the undecided voter in the middle who's like, hmm, how do I make sense of all this.

KUCINICH: Right.

BALDWIN: Otherwise scratching his or her heads.

I really, in particular, have done a lot on gun violence in this country and we're going to talk to the daughter of the principal at Sandy Hook who was killed because she was name checked twice. So we're going to talk to her later on. But I wanted to talk about - you know, listen, this is when Dana was really pressing Hillary Clinton specifically on the transcripts, the Goldman Sachs transcripts. She's made a lot of money off of that. People have said, why don't you release them. This is part of that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN MODERATOR: Secretary Clinton, the question was about the transcripts of the speeches to Goldman Sachs. Why not release it?

CLINTON: And, Dana, look, there - there are certain -- here are certain expectations when you run for president. This is a new one, and I've said, if everybody agreed to do it, because there are speeches for money on the other side. I know that. But I will tell you this, there is - there is a long-standing expectation that everybody running release their tax returns and you can go - you can go to my website and see eight years of tax returns and I've released 30 years of tax returns -

BASH: We -

CLINTON: And I think every candidate, including Senator Sanders and Donald Trump, should do the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Jackie, she pivoted right from the transcripts to the tax returns. I've - you know, take a look at my website and you can see and thus then news was made because Senator Sanders then said, OK, tomorrow, meaning today, I'm releasing one.

KUCINICH: Well, I mean, so Jeff was talking about how Hillary was - how Hillary was in Sanders' head. I thought this was a moment where Hillary Clinton still doesn't have a good answer on why these transcripts aren't being released.

ZELENY: Right.

KUCINICH: And she's been asked this question many, many times. Not as a - I mean Dana would not let that go last night.

[14:10:03] BALDWIN: Dana was on it.

KUCINICH: And it needed to be done. And - but she clearly practiced this answer because she immediately pivoted to something Sanders didn't have and, you know, Donald Trump, for that matter.

BALDWIN: Right.

KUCINICH: So but will she release these transcripts? I don't know because she clearly thinks there's something in there that's damaging and that they'll be able to go after her.

ZELENY: It's - it's an issue in the Democratic primary though. I'm not so sure it's an issue in the general election here through.

BALDWIN: Do you - do you think people really care voting for her?

ZELENY: I mean I think that the - you know, the question is, why hasn't she released them? Why hasn't she sort of popped this bubble?

BALDWIN: If she has nothing to hide.

ZELENY: The - I'm told that the most sort of damning thing is there - she sort of praises Goldman Sachs. If you're getting $200,000 to give a speech -

KUCINICH: Right.

ZELENY: Of course you're coming in to give a friendly speech.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZELENY: She's not in there to burn the house down.

KUCINICH: Lecture them.

ZELENY: Exactly. So I think anything that, you know, the campaign does not want an ad to be made while this Democratic primary is still going on of her sort of speaking friendly to Goldman Sachs or Bank of America or whatnot, but -

BALDWIN: But what about the tax return promise? We're already halfway through the day Friday and we've got nothing from the Senator Sanders campaign. Is that coming?

ZELENY: I just talked to a top adviser of his campaign, Tad Devine, within the hour. He said they'll be out by the end of the afternoon, but only one year of 2014. And I'm told that the thing to look for in there is how much money they gave to charity or how much they didn't. But we are talking - I mean Senator Sanders is not a wealthy senator. He's one of the lowest in terms of money and wealth. So I think it's a case of disorganization as opposed to not wanting to disclose. But, you know, he's had a long time to disclose. He's been in public life for a long time, you know, whatever, release them.

KUCINICH: And this is a tradition. It's not necessarily something that's required, but - but, you know, everybody does it.

ZELENY: It's not a new thing, right.

BALDWIN: Right.

ZELENY: Right.

BALDWIN: OK. There was a powerful exchange when it came to Gaza and Israel. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Houses decimated. Health care decimated. Schools decimated. I believe the United States and the rest of the world have got to work together to help the Palestinian people. That does not make me anti- Israel. That paves the way, I think -

BLITZER: Thank you, senator. SANDERS: For an approach that works in the Middle East.

BLITZER: Thank you.

CLINTON: You know, again, describing the problem is a lot easier than trying to solve it.

SANDERS: There comes a time - there comes a time when, if we pursue justice and peace, we are going to have to say that Netanyahu is not right all of the time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: There was a lot more to that exchange. You know, she was sort of forceful in her answer in saying, listen, I helped broker the peace deal in 2012, although she's been criticized for not going far enough. But how extraordinary, Jeff Zeleny, was it for - to hear Bernie Sanders, a man, you know, grew up Jewish -

ZELENY: Right.

BALDWIN: Talking the way he did about Palestinians and Palestinian children?

ZELENY: It was - it was pretty unbelievable. He's lived in Israel for a time.

BALDWIN: Has family there.

ZELENY: Right. I thought that was one of the more - I mean it wasn't as sort of central to this race probably as income inequality and Wall Street, but I think in terms of being interesting, in terms of where he would go if elected to lead the country, I thought that was a fascinating exchange there.

BALDWIN: It was a powerful moment.

ZELENY: And I thought that - I mean it showed that he has given a lot of thought to this as well. He's been on big committees in Congress. He's traveled the world. But I did think that she sort of, you know, was like - you know, almost said, you know, you're being naive here. She almost said those words here. So I'm not sure that that - that voter are that moved by that, but I do think it raises the question of, what exactly is his foreign policy? What would he do on this in particular. But I think - I would like to hear more of that exchange actually because that is - we've not really had a central foreign policy debate on the Democratic side.

KUCINICH: Well, and Hillary Clinton is a hawk.

ZELENY: Sure.

KUCINICH: Hillary Clinton trends to be a hawk.

ZELENY: Without a doubt. KUCINICH: And so - without - without a doubt. So this was - this was

another contrast. A very clear contrast between these two candidates that in some other ways are sort of around the margins. This was very, very clear.

BALDWIN: OK, thank you both so much.

ZELENY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jackie Kucinich, I'm holding you over a break -

KUCINICH: All right.

BALDWIN: Because I want to talk to you about something we've just turned around here.

But, coming up, this is one of the most heated exchanges of the debate on the topic specifically of gun control. I mentioned this a moment ago. We'll talk live to the daughter of the Sandy Hook school principal who was murdered that day, why she says Bernie Sanders owes her an apology.

Also breaking news, another major earthquake hitting Japan, a 7.0 magnitude. We have the latest on that.

And just in to CNN, the NBA announcing whether it plans to pull the 2017 all-star game out of Charlotte, North Carolina, in the wake of the state's controversial law that denies protections to the LGBT community.

Stay with me. Lots to talk about on this Friday. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:38] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN on this Friday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump - Donald Trump is calling the Republican delegate process corrupt. The head of the RNC, Reince Priebus, firing back right here on CNN just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: It was the same system that put Abraham Lincoln into offers. No, I think the system is working and all the delegates that are bound to the candidates will stay bound to the candidates. No one is losing any bound delegates whatsoever.

We're going to get together. We're going to be unified in Cleveland. I know there's drama. I know there's going to be work to do. I get it. I'm not, you know, oblivious to the world that I live in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, let's begin there. Matt Lewis, CNN political commentator and conservative writer is with us today, and senior contributor for "The Daily Caller." Bob Cusack is here, editor and chief of "The Hill." And she's kind enough to stick around, "Daily Beast" Washington bureau chief Jackie Kucinich.

So awesome seeing all of you all this afternoon.

And, Bob, let me just being with you. Sort of, you know, coming off of what you just heard Reince Priebus say, you know, acknowledging that, yes, there is drama, but, yes, they will be unified in Cleveland. The system is working.

BOB CUSACK, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE HILL": Right.

BALDWIN: Is this - is this his inner voice? Is this what he's saying to himself before he goes to bed every night because of everything else, all the noise, or is this, you know, really what's going to happen?

CUSACK: Well, he's in a - he's in a very difficult spot, there's no doubt about it. He's got, I think, the toughest job in Washington. And I don't think, Brooke, this is going to, you know - Priebus says they're going to be unified in Cleveland. Well, I don't think they're going to be unified - it's going to be very difficult to be unified in Cleveland.

[14:20:13] And this story line is not going to go away because when I sat down with Donald Trump earlier this week, I mean he's really mad. Now, I know the rules have been set for months, but he thinks that the process is arcane and it is weird that the average Joe in Colorado just didn't get to vote. So I -

BALDWIN: Right.

CUSACK: You know, they both have good points, but the bottom line is, this conflict is going to continue for weeks, if not months.

BALDWIN: Well, we've heard from Donald Trump now. He's written this opinion piece for "The Wall Street Journal," you know, blasting this whole - this whole process. Let me just quote part of it. "Let me ask America a question, how has the system been working out for you and your family? I, for one, am not interested in defending a system that for decades has served the interest of political parties at the expense of the people."

Matt, my question to you is, you know, really since Wisconsin, with him writing this opinion piece in "The Wall Street Journal," we haven't seen him going on and on in any sort of news conference. You know, he's not on a Sunday show this weekend. This has all sort of been this new Paul Manafort era. I'm wondering if this is part of a new turn that the Trump team is taking.

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it clearly is. You know, he's not on Twitter as much. Different strategy. And he is putting the system on trial. And so I think the - maybe the medium that he's using, write things versus spouting off or doing Twitter is different, but the message is very consistent. He's always been the candidate who is putting the system on trial. The candidate who is going to be a rebel in a way, who said that the game was rigged. And that game could be the economy. Or that game could be the delegate process. And so I think that part of it is very consistent.

And the problem that Reince Priebus is going to have is that although I think Priebus is absolutely right on the merits, you know, it's really hard to argue with what Donald Trump says. It's a bumper sticker, the game is rigged, the fix is in. You know, Americans who are very accustomed to almost a direct democracy now have expectations. And so the archaic system that Republicans use, you know, it's now being put on trial.

BALDWIN: Well, we know a number - well, all Kasich, Cruz and Trump were at the big GOP gala last night. This is $1,000 a plate. They all stood up there and spoke. And so, Jackie, I'm going to turn to you and ask you about Ted Cruz. Apparently his opening line was, "I haven't built any buildings in New York City," and he was waiting for applause that apparently never - never came.

KUCINICH: Yes.

BALDWIN: While he was speaking, the plates were clinking, the chatter continued. I'm looking at your face like, oh.

KUCINICH: Yes. It - there wasn't any love lost for Ted Cruz.

BALDWIN: No.

KUCINICH: He hasn't really caught on in New York.

BALDWIN: In New York.

KUCINICH: And the polls show. This wasn't supposed to be his best state. His New York values comment certainly didn't help him. But, yes, it is sort of sad for Ted Cruz that he was openly shamed at this dinner last night. People were leaving and just kind of ignoring him.

BALDWIN: Yes. So there is that. Let me talk about John Kasich, because we've just turned around some sound. John Kasich was just speaking. This is a town hall in Watertown, New York. You're probably all going to hear this for the first time, so let me just set this up. A college student has just asked him how he would make her feel safe in regard to sexual violence, harassment and rape on college campus. And apparently the governor did list a number of measures they've enacted in his home state of Ohio, encouraged sexual assault victims to seek justice and then he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In our - in our state, we think that when you enroll, you ought to absolutely know that if something happens to you along the lines of sexual harassment or whatever, you have a place to go where there is a confidential reporting, where there is an ability for you to access a rape kit, where that is kept confidential, but where it gives you the opportunity to be able to pursue justice after you have - have had some time to reflect on it all. And we need - and we are in a process of making sure that all higher education in our state - and this ought to be done in the country - that our co-eds know exactly what the rules are, what the opportunities are, what the confidential policies are, so that you're not vulnerable, at risk and can be preyed upon.

I have two 16-year-old daughters. And I don't even like to think about it, you know.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

KASICH: Well, I would give you - I'd also give you one bit of advice, don't go to parties where there's a lot of alcohol, OK. Don't - don't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. As a woman, and I'm looking at you, fellow female, talking here, I mean, listen, I feel like he gave all this excellent advice. I think he should have just stopped before that last comment. Just stopped.

[14:25:00] KUCINICH: Yes. But Kasich does have a tendency to sound sort of like the '60s dad. And that - that's what that sounds like. I don't think it was malicious and -

BALDWIN: Yes.

KUCINICH: Or not malicious at all. I don't think that he meant to be politically incorrect there. I think it was an honest answer. He does, he's got two 16-year-olds. And I can totally hear a lot of dads from Ohio saying the exact -

BALDWIN: Saying, honey, don't go to the party where there's alcohol.

KUCINICH: Honey, don't go to the party if there's alcohol. Take care of yourself.

BALDWIN: Bob Cusack, what did you think, this a big deal?

CUSACK: Yes, I think - I think it would have been better, Brooke, as you said, to probably stop. But I do think its - a lot of people think, listen, he's trying to give advice. This is also not your typical Medicare or energy type of question. So a little bit out of his element there. I think it would have been better if he had stopped. But at the same time, I don't think this is going to hurt him.

BALDWIN: OK. Bob Cusack, Matt Lewis, Jackie Kucinich, thanks to all of you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, just in to CNN, the NBA announcing whether it plans to pull out of that 2017 all-star game in Charlotte, North Carolina. This is all in the wake of the state's controversial law that denies protections to the community - the LGBT community. We have that from Adam Silver, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)