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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Cruz And Kasich Make A Deal to Stop Trump; Trump: Cruz-Kasich Alliance "Pathetic" And "Desperate"; Pennsylvania's Delegate Guessing Game; Super Tuesday: The Battle For Delegates; Cruz On Kasich: We Disagree, But More United Us; Prince Celebrated In Private Funeral; What Religion Meant To Prince; Marijuana Growing Operations Found At Ohio Slaying Sites. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 25, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:27] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to another hour of "360". Donald Trump had said over and over on the campaign trail that if he's elected president, he'll make the best deals -- it's all bout the deals, no one will make better deals. Well, tonight there's a deal but it's between his two rivals John Kasich and Ted Cruz, and it's all about trying to stop Trump's momentum.
Five states vote tomorrow, including Pennsylvania. The Cruz and Kasich are looking further ahead, deciding strategically to try stay out of each other's way in three states. Not surprisingly, Trump is not impressed with this particular deal.
Sara Murray had the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In politics because it is a rigged system, because it's a corrupt enterprise, in politics you're allowed to collude.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Whether it's collusion or common sense, tonight John Kasich and Ted Cruz are teaming up to stop Donald Trump.
TRUMP: So they colluded -- and actually I was happy because it shows how weak they are, it shows how pathetic they are.
MURRAY: And the real estate mogul is not impressed.
TRUMP: ... then I heard this guy, Cruz, you know, he's getting killed. He's getting killed. I mean he got so badly beaten last week and he's getting killed generally.
MURRAY: In nearly simultaneous campaign memo Sunday night, Kasich agreed to pull out of Indiana, while Cruz promised to back out of Oregon and New Mexico all in the latest poll to stop Trump from clinching the nomination before the convention. Today, Cruz is even mocking Trump's outrage.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE: I don't doubt that Donald Trump is going to scream and yell and curse an insult, and probably cry and whine some as well. And that has been Donald's pattern.
MURRAY: And spinning the deal as his chance to take on Trump mano-a- mano.
CRUZ: It is big news today that John Kasich has decided to pull out of Indiana to give us a head to head contest with Donald Trump.
MURRAY: All -- if Kasich appears not quite on board with the past, cancelling his Indiana campaign events, but encouraging his supporters to stick around.
GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've never told them not to vote for me. They ought to vote for me.
MURRAY: The Kasich camp setting on this alliance to keep them in the hunt by conserving resources and they hope drawing more anti-Trump dollars to their aid.
KASICH: I don't have, you know, like "Daddy" War bucks behind me giving me this money. I have to be careful about my resources.
MURRAY: But it's also drawing Trump's ire, as the GOP frontrunner, he figures nothing is off limits, not even Kasich's eating habits.
KASICH: What's the issue?
TRUMP: He has a news conference, all the time when he is eating. I have never seen a human being eat in such a disgusting fashion. This guy takes a pancake and he is shoving it in his mouth. It's disgusting. Do you want that for your president? I don't think so. I don't think so. Honestly, it's disgusting.
KASICH: Well, look I think the -- It's designed to do what now?
MURRAY: The Kasich camp took the dig in stride. Tweeting, "We were looking for some Trump steaks for the governor but no one seems to sell them any more."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Sara Murray joins us. Now, so what's the latest from the Trump campaign about this Cruz-Kasich deal? How did Trump describe the plans to supporters?
MURRAY: Well, they don't seem particularly threatened by this latest alliance. Donald Trump has been railing against Ted Cruz and John Kasich all day. He kept it up tonight here in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. He called them pathetic, he called them losers. He even suggested that both Kasich and Cruz should get out of the race at this point, because they have no way of getting to the nomination other than through a contested convention. Obviously, a little sign that it's going to happen but Donald Trump responded exactly the way you might expect Donald Trump to respond when he feels like he's attacked, Anderson.
COOPER: All right Sara Murray, Sara thanks.
In the last hour I spoke with John Kasich about the alliance with Ted Cruz. He said as far as he's concerned, the deal really is no big deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASICH: I mean, we don't want to go places and spend money in places that we can't win and so the idea that, you know, that I'm going to target those places where I can do the best and he is going to target those places where he can do the best, that's terrific but I don't see anything wrong and I don't see anything earthshaking about that. So that's sort of the end of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: With me now, CNN Politics Executive Editor, Mark Preston. Our CNN Political Commentator is Errol Louis, Mary Katharine Ham, Tara Setmayer, Ross Douthat and Jeffrey Lord, who's a Trump supporter.
Jeff, let's start with you this time. The Cruz-Kasich alliance. I mean, Trump is calling you pathetic, desperate. Is the campaign -- you get worried that this is actually going to hurt them, those three states? Because these candidates aren't calling on their supporters or they aren't saying their supporters "Don't for vote for me."
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yeah, I don't think they are to be perfectly candid. I think that this is -- as we have discussed, I think this is a last minute thing. It's a Hail Mary as it were. It's is not going to be very effective in anything and to some degree it might back fire on Senator Cruz. I don't think it's going to have any effect on Governor Kasich whatsoever.
[21:05:18] I mean, I think that the more interesting thing I'm talking to unite from Pennsylvania where we have our primary tomorrow. More interesting thing that's going on is who among these I guess, 54 delegates running in the Pennsylvania's Congressional Districts are going to win? Of course because your name is only on there. It's just your name. You got to find out whether the candidate supports Donald Trump or John Kasich or Ted Cruz, that's frankly more interesting and more of a problem for the campaign than this.
COOPER: Mark Preston, you heard the interview with John Kasich earlier. Would you make of it because -- Again, I mean -- I asked him point blank, are you telling supporters in Indiana to vote for you, and he wouldn't really answer?
MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CNN, POLITICS: Right.
COOPER: In the clip, he said I am not telling people not to vote for me. PRESTON: Right and you know, I've been critically of their whole world all day here on CNN and I was just telling myself why am I critical other than the fact that clearly John Kasich didn't get the talking points, you know, to go out and try to sell the deal but really what it is, is there's no sense of urgency. That interview that you just did, you know a short time ago, John Kasich should have come out and should have expressed a strong desire to say listen, if we don't stop him now, he will be our nominee. He failed to do that and the same thing with Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz didn't come out and try to sell the deal, and say unless you all get behind us he will be our nominee and perhaps be our next president.
COOPER: It is a tricky situation though Errol, I mean, I guess candidates don't want to be on record and saying well don't vote for me in the state because of this big deal that we are colluding, no they're not going to use the word colluding, that we have gone together on and yet -- and s till not on a wink.
ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL ANCHOR, NY: You've give them solid assurances to donors, you told people I'm going to come into your state and I'm going to campaign really hard, I'm going to fight until to the last dog dies then turn around, and say well, maybe not so much, you know, there is a more subtle way to do it but, you know, I think Mark is exactly right.
They have to really make the case that the time is short and the people have to make some really tough choices and that the downside of not making those choices is something real serious and close at hand. I don't think people fully realized, that you know, the conventions are right around the corner. There will be a nominee, you know, so again in the next 90 days basically ...
ROSS DOUTHAT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don't be too sure.
COOPER: Tara we have heard from you, I mean with money -- do you see the possible that a Kasich could drop out before the convention or Cruz, I mean there's no reason I guess to.
TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, but yeah, there would be absolutely no reason to do that and really everyone he needs to put it in perspective, you know, if nothing's over tomorrow, this was baked into the cake already that Trump would do well in these states.
Indiana, really is crucial which is why he saw this alliance happening now because of Donald Trump being up in Indiana a couple of points that is all, all that Cruz needs is to pull a third of Kasich's folks in Indiana and he win ...
COOPER: But if crucial, I mean, if you're in for penny, why not be in for pound ...
SETMAYER: Yeah, I know.
COOPER: I just want to go one of these candidates and say look, if this is crucial, I -- this is going to sound weird but don't vote for me in this stage. SETMAYER: That's what Marco Rubio did when, you know, in March 15th, primary, he said "Hey listen, and you know, don't vote for me in Ohio. Vote for John Kasich" and Kasich and seems to be reticent to actually do that. He hasn't that done that and even to this point were really is critical for both his survival for Ted Cruz's but May is not going to be a friendly month for Donald Trump, so everyone needs to just like hold their horse. I don't think they can still comment.
DOUTHAT: You know, Anderson ...
MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And there's a real strength of Trump's and to say what he is saying at that given moment and be real sure about it for how ever long he's going to be sure about it, and I do think that these guys would have been better off coming out and being sure about what they were doing.
And Cruz I think would have been better of too. It's not surprising that Cruz campaign can sometimes maybe need some chill like a little more chill and maybe to not kneecap Kasich while they're announcing, like and thank you for pulling out of Indiana. You guys work together and go against this guy like ...
COOPER: Cruz presented if John Kasich is bowing out of Indiana to allow him a head to head match up. Jeffrey I heard you -- I don't know if it was a chortle or chuckle but ...
LORD: Yeah, well Anderson, you know, let's just go back to the very beginning this is all happening because from the very beginning, none of these people, meaning other candidates took that order to consultants and all of that took Donald Trump seriously and frankly, you know, as politicians I mean this is malpractice. They didn't get Donald Trump and they certainly didn't get the mood of the country so here they are, and they can't figure out what to do now except, oh don't nominate him and this is just not working for.
HAM: It's also happening now because he didn't put all these guys away. There are two sides of this, where people have failed to do what they needed to do.
SETMAYER: And he won a plurality when they were 17 people in the race and now, you know, we have not seen any dominating performance other than New York but she is expected to do up into this point for Donald Trump, you know, he has 1 over 50 ...
[21:10:04] COOPER: There's alliance of sort of semi-alliance continuing to other states?
DOUTHAT: I mean since, there isn't really an alliance?
DOUTHAT: As far as we can tell, I guess the answer is no, I mean I think we're going to -- you know the only state that really matters after Indiana that is California. And California is way more complicated, because its, you know, winner take all by congressional district. There are a million congressional districts in California. I mean exaggerating, but only slightly.
So you can't. I mean, you could deviate up by media market. You could say, all right Kasich is going to spend in the bay area to win those 132 bay area Republicans, who everyone knew we were going to decide the Republican nomination way back when.
DOUTHAT: You could do it like that. But I mean I think the issue here, what they want to happen, and you mentioned the Ohio case, right, when Rubio said vote for Kasich. Rubio, his poll numbers in Ohio were already terrible but they did drop of it and did seem to have and effect.
So what they want to happen in Indiana is a combination of that and what happened in Wisconsin where Kasich's numbers collapsed in the end of it helped Cruz surge a little bit. And you could see that happening in Indiana, but it just seems like they're sort of backing into it, sort of stumbling, and tripping over each other along the way.
PRESTON: Can I just say this. I am pretty sure about this. I don't want to go to a rock fight with Ted Cruz or John Kasich having my back because what we've seen in the last many hours or so these guys are not supporting one another. And into Errol's point and as we're talking here. There are 15 contests left, 5 of them are of the board tomorrow, there are only 10 left, you know, at that point.
Donald Trump really came out in New York with a strong win behind him. He is going to come out of tomorrow night with a strong win behind him. If he is going to go in to Indiana and let's not forget, like he is winning the evangelical vote across the country. That is supposed to be Ted Cruz's vote. He could go to Indiana, and take out Indiana, and then the game is over. Look, it's all speculation but ...
SETMAYER: Yeah let's look in striking thing, its only -- its single digit in Indiana to the most part.
DOUTHAT: No matter what happens tomorrow, Trump is still -- I mean demographics, again and again its matter more than momentum. And the demographics of Indiana suggest that Trump should win 38 or 39 percent of the vote. So if Ted Cruz can get to 42 percent of the vote or 43 percent or something, he should be able to still win Indiana and that's ...
SETMAYER: And Trump is not going to win one contest in May. I mean after Indiana, where he is going to win? Montana? No. That's what going to happen. He is not going to win New Mexico. I don't think so.
(CROSSTALK) HAM: Once again, in Indiana, you have the issue, where there is bunch of prominent Republicans, including the governor or conservatives who have not said, hey I'm going to back a horse here. And that's another instance like where too little, too late, and that people aren't stepping up to the plate.
COOPER: Jeffrey, I mean as a Trump supporter to you does this, you know, sort of I don't know if you call it an alliance, just maybe being too generous. But does it ...
COOPER: ... to arrangement. Does it confirm to Trump supporters? Is that the part?
LORD: And that for cordial.
COOPER: Right that -- that we're not so cordial, I mean that the process is actually rigged against them. Does that confirm that to supporters?
LORD: Oh sure, absolutely. Anderson, the other night I went to my first Trump rally here in Harrisburg. Yeah, 10,000 people there, and because I'm on your show, so I mean, Donald mentioned me from the platform. But so many people came up to me. I can tell you just in talking to them, these people are really passionate. They are determined to get this accomplished. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. When he says this is rigged and colluding this in all of these kinds of thing absolutely this hits home with these folks.
SETMAYER: If it is rigged, worst rigging ever.
HAM: Right. Rigged in his favor.
DOUTHAT: Right and this is -- is it Trump. Well Trump has the best of both worlds. He gets to have people working and trying to rig against him, and they're doing a terrible job.
HAM: And goes out and make propaganda, I think the whole thing and people believe him.
COOPER: All right, thanks everybody.
Just ahead, Pennsylvania is one of the five states holding primaries tomorrow and the presidential are not the only names on the ballot. Voters in the Keystone state will also be like in delegates. They say a tricky business to say at least Randi Kaye is going walk us through it.
Also ahead, I talk to two people speak for the Trump and Cruz campaigns about the deal that Cruz and Kasich have caught and how it could reshape the race.
[21:17:45] COOPER: Just hours from now the polls going to open at five east cost states including Pennsylvania for the Republican candidate. The Keystone state maybe the biggest wild card tomorrow because of a core involving its delegates.
Voters can cast as many as four votes in Pennsylvania's primary, one for presidential candidate, and three for the delegates that were going to represent their congressional district in the Republican convention.
Now, this is where it gets complicated. The delegates voters will elect tomorrow are basically free agents and figuring out how they may vote in Cleveland in July is virtually impossible. Here is Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am running for delegate in the second congressional district.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If Aludrey Geset (ph) gets elected as unpledged Pennsylvania delegate to the Republican National Convention in July, she says she will support Ted Cruz, despite who the majority of GOP primary voters want. But other potential unpledged delegates won't say who they'll support.
CALVIN TUCKER, CANDIDATE FOR PENNSYLVANIA DELEGATE: I'm open. I'm uncommitted and will be until I have to cast my first vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now I am uncommitted. Good, how are you doing? What's going on?
KAYE: That's what makes Pennsylvania unique. Of the states 71 delegates, 54 of them will remain unpledged more than any other state. Meaning they can vote for whichever candidate they want at the convention, just like Calvin Tucker and Chris Vogler.
When will you decide who you vote for at the convention?
CHRIS VOGLER, CANDIDATE FOR PENSNSYLVANIA DELEGATE: I'm not totally sure. It might not be even total convention.
TUCKER: I'm not going to make decision base on my discussion with each of the candidates or their surrogates to determine their interests in urban policy.
KAYE: The campaigns are anxious to shore up support. Calvin says he's received at least 25 calls and e-mails from the campaigns. Just last week, he met with Ted Cruz surrogate Carly Fiorina and was invited to attend a delegate dinner with Cruz himself.
What does it feel like to be courted by the campaigns?
TUCKER: Well I mean it feels good. I mean I haven't been courted in 40 years since first I met my wife.
KAYE: Chris is being wooed, too. He met Cruz last week.
VOGLER: Just going to introduce some small talk, then it really was a questioning and answer session for about 45 minutes.
KAYE: And here is where things get really tricky. In choosing delegates voters in Pennsylvania may have to guess which presidential candidate a potential delegate will support.
This is a sample primary ballot for voters to use here in Pennsylvania. And here on the Republican side are some of the delegates that we interviewed. And you can see all that's there is their name, you don't know about their allegiances or which presidential candidate they're supporting.
[21:20:13] But here on the Democratic side, they do show that, for example, this delegate is committed to Hillary Clinton, over here, committed to Bernie Sanders. But back on the Republican side what could happen is a voter could conceivably end up voting in a delegate who supports a different presidential candidate than that voter.
That means the candidate who wins the popular vote in the state may or may not win the most delegates. It all depends how this unpledged delegates eventually decide to vote at the convention.
Even though looks like Donald Trump will win the popular vote here, what would you like to see happen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to see Cruz carry a lot of delegates. Hello.
KAYE: Despite the many questions from voters, there are no immediate plans to change the rules or the ballot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are calling us now, and when are you going to switch it. You're going to switch in March, you're going switch in April? We're not going to change it now. In April, you know, we got from the elections.
KAYE: The Philadelphia Republican Party says it is doing all it can to make sure voters are informed and educated about the delegate candidates come primary day.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's a fascinating system. The five states to vote tomorrow will move the delegate map on both sides of the primary race.
John King, I talked to him earlier to breakdown by the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: John, tomorrow night, how important is that to Donald Trump's hope to get to magic number before the convention?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely a critical, Anderson. He win all five, and he win them big. Here is where we start. Donald Trump just have a 50 in our CNN delegate count. Ted Cruz way behind that reminds people of the stakes tomorrow night.
Five states all of the northeast and mid-Atlantic, that's why it is the so called the "sell out primary". One hundred and seventy two Republican delegates could stay can Trump is poise to win most Anderson, as we look this up and why is that so important to him? If he could sweep all five, and sweep them with a healthy margin, he can add 100 maybe more to his delegate take. Get out pass 950, get out pass the 75 percent mark to 1,237.
Does that guarantee that he gets past 950, even at highest say 965, 970, does it guarantee he gets to 1,237in the race? No, but keeps him in play. It lowers his percentage map and they need going forward and it would send a big message to the Republican Party.
COOPER: And what about this new Kasich-Cruz alliance, can that actually work?
KING: Well, it is born of desperation. Can it work, perhaps. Again let's take a look what it is, Governor Kasich says Senator Cruz, you've got Indiana. I will campaign there anymore. In return, Senator Cruz says Governor Kasich you take New Mexico and Oregon. Once in middle of May, ones all the way in June. Add them all up, Anderson, that's 109 delegates. If the Trump opponents can take them, sure it complicates the math for Trump. Let's take a look at that way.
Let's play this out through June. We know Mr. Trump going to win New Jersey, suspect he will win West Virginia. We run out to west here. Let's say Cruz wins Indiana, because of this alliance. Let's say Kasich gets New Mexico and Kasich gets Oregon. Well, then California would be left. Even if Trump won California big, we'll giving him 70 percent of delegates there. That would be a big win.
Under this scenario, that would have Trump is about 1,215. So short of 1,237. It doesn't mean he could go negotiate with uncommitted delegates to get there. But if he won those states, if Trump actually came in and won Indiana, if Trump actually came and it said he says, sorry, Governor Kasich, I'm going to take New Mexico, and I will split in the delegates here. And if he could run the board, and get Oregon, and say, you know, so much for that alliance. Well, Anderson, this gets him to 1,236. And there are more delegates he could get tomorrow night. So then succeeding in that alliance or at least two of those three states is absolutely critical. If Trump breaks the deal, if you will, he can get there.
COOPER: And what about on the Democratic side, when Clinton clearly hopes to make Sanders' math impossible after tomorrow night. Can she do it?
KING: Yes she can I mean, not mathematically but certainly for a political standpoint, again, let's look at where we are. She has a lead now after New York that she says is overwhelming. Same five states tomorrow night. The asterisk by Rhode Island, because Rhode Island has an open primary, independents can vote. The rest of them are closed primaries only Democrats and that helps Hillary Clinton. Here is what she's thinking is going to happen tomorrow night, Anderson. She thinks she wins at least four of the five. That Secretary Clinton takes four of these five states. We move this down here maybe loses Rhode Island. If that's the case, even winning just 55-45, she starts to stretch her math here. If this is about what happens tomorrow night, she ends tonight around 1,660 or so.
Look what has to happen going forward, 1,016 delegates left after tomorrow night in the Democratic race. If tomorrow goes as we think its going to go. Look at this. Senator Sanders would need 99 percent of the remaining pledge delegates to catch her and clinch. That's not going to happen.
Now, Hillary Clinton would still need 71 percent of the pledge delegates to clinch before convention. That's unlikely, but that's where the superdelegates come into play. If she keeps winning and holds them, she has a good night tomorrow. She'll need only 22 percent maybe a little bit lower of the remaining pledge delegates to win the nomination, as long as she keeps those superdelegates, Senator Sanders doesn't have as many. Like I can show you what is that mean. He would need 95 percent.
If you play this all out in the Democratic side. If tomorrow night goes like we think its going to do and we go forward to California, sure. The Democratic race could end with Secretary Clinton a little short of the finish line, when it comes to pledge delegates, but if she keeps winning most of them, Anderson she has going to 500 superdelegates right now.
[21:25:09] Senator Sanders has only 42. She keeps winning starting with a big night tomorrow. The superdelegates get her over the finish line at the end. Game over.
COOPER: Wow. John King, John thanks.
KING: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And just ahead this hour, I talk to two top staffers in the Cruz and Trump campaigns about the latest twists in the race their lines between Cruz and Kasich and how Trump is responding.
COOPER: Well heading to another Super Tuesday, Donald Trump is crying foul over the deal with Ted Cruz and John Kasich made the team up against him, his using it as ammunition after days of ramping up attacks on the delegate system he calls rigged.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is said that two grown politicians have to collude against one person who has only been a politician, I hate to say that about myself, for 10 months. What kind of a system is this? It shows how weak they are, its show how pathetic they are. It takes two guys long time politicians to try to get and together to try and beat Trump.
They had boats and yachts waiting to take delegates around. It is a rigged system, wine them and dine them, sit down to have steak dinners for them.
Get out it is all rigged, folks. You see them, in theory, you can buy the nomination, going around, wining and dining people, taking them out to dinner, spending a lot of money. I tell you what, it's really buying an election in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:04] COOPER: Now earlier we heard some Trump supporters in Pennsylvania say they saw Trump as victim of collusion and a rigged system in wake of the Cruz, Kasich deal.
Joining me now is our Barry Bennett, Senior Adviser for the Trump Campaign and Steve Lonegan, New Jersey State Director for Ted Cruz campaign.
Steve, thanks for joining us. This deal, Senator Cruz says, it quote "entirely about the will of the people." But it is the will the people shown at the ballot box and not in deals made behind closed doors by the candidates who want to be lead?
STEVE LONEGAN, NEW JERSEY STATE DIRECTOR FOR CRUZ CAMPAIGN: Yeah, and Anderson, it has been, you know, this weekend while Donald Trump was whining, Ted Cruz was sweeping up delegates across Maine. That's coming after sweeping Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Wisconsin, North Dakota, picking up delegates in North Carolina, Georgia, Oklahoma. Ted Cruz is like a one man delegate harvesting combine. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is losing. And at the same time is Ted is picking up delegates and campaigning hard, Donald Trump super lobbyist establishment campaign manager Paul Manafort down in Florida, telling the RNC that the Donald Trump you see on the campaign trail is not the real Donald Trump.
COOPER: But you -- when you say Donald Trump is losing though I think there is a lot of candidates who would like to be losing like Donald Trump is. I mean he's leading in the popular vote and he's leading in delegate count.
LONEGAN: He had three week streak of losing, had a mediocre to win in New York there. I would like to point out that John Kasich got more votes in Ohio than Donald Trump got in New York, Ted Cruz got double the votes in Texas that Donald Trump and got and in fact you know what, in Wisconsin, more people voted in New York and Ted Cruz got no vote -- more votes in Wisconsin than Donald Trump got in New York. So there's no big win. I'm not impressed by Donald Trump.
LONEGAN: Donald Trump is going to stop carrying on and learn to play the game.
COOPER: Barry, Trump obviously is not a fan of this deal, saying it is weak, its pathetic going collusion but whether he likes or not, Cruz and Kasich, they're not breaking any rules here, and there be sure being transparent about what's going on. So it may not like it, but as to admit it about board, right.
BARRY BENNETT, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Yeah, they're might be breaking a few rules of logic, and maybe the strategy as well. John Kasich is running out of money. He didn't have the money to compete. I mean, he just filed his APC (ph) reports, he was down to his last few hundred thousand dollars.
BENNETT: You know, Ted Cruz has -- tomorrow after elections after votes are counted, will be mathematically eliminated. I mean not a good win in New York. I mean Ted Cruz finished last in every county in New York. It says that's a pretty good win.
COOPER: Steve well ahead ...
COOPER: But Steve I guess what I don't understand, Steve. Is it -- I mean Kasich isn't telling his supporters in Indiana to vote for Cruz, and Cruz isn't telling his supporters in New Mexico and Oregon to vote for Kasich. So how much good, is this really going to do with that?
LONEGAN: Well, I what really shows, is that Ted Cruz just crushed Donald Trump when it comes to the art of the deal. He is been a superior negotiator when it comes to winning delegates and when he running a real campaign. We all know that the Trump campaign has been in total chaos.
Look, we are the bottom of the sixth, we have a long game ahead, and Ted Cruz is in position to continue to win delegates and go on to the convention and compete with Donald Trump.
COOPER: Is it really ...
BENETT: Ted Cruz is done. Ted Cruz is done. It's over. Its over.
COOPER: You say it's a long game. I mean after tomorrow night, Ted will contest.
BENNETT: You're going to finish last in the race tomorrow night. Last.
LONEGAN: We all know that Donald Trump will do well in the northeast. This is ways from he's from, from the northeast. But May is a whole different month and Ted Cruz has a far superior managed campaign, a far superior message than Donald Trump. That's why Donald Trump will not debate Ted Cruz. BENNETT: Two and a half million votes have passed to Donald Trump, so superior campaign.
LONEGAN: Superior campaign overtime.
BENNETT: And chance need to go and get some reality, you're missing it.
LONEGAN: Well, you'll see reality come to Indiana and come to Cleveland in July. When you're going to see a superior campaign, a superior negotiated or a superior deal maker.
COOPER: So Steve, you know, what if this strategy works for Indiana, we will find out if it does next Tuesday. Do you expect to see that two campaigns teaming up like this for other states?
LONEGAN: I don't know if the two campaigns team up. Ted has it, if you call it teaming up, but think about what Ted did he pulled off for real coup. He got John Kasich out of the way in Indiana. That's a winning strategy. That's the kind of guy we need in the White House negotiating with the rest of the world.
BENNETT: All of the people who are going to vote for John Kasich. John Kasich is not out he is not. He canceled two rallies.
LONEGAN: Look, I am not here to predict elections, maybe you are. I'll tell you right now, Ted Cruz will outperform expectations come Indiana and even come tomorrow night in Pennsylvania.
COOPER: Barry, Barry last night I just want to ask you about some things Hillary Clinton said about Donald Trump today. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump says wages are too high in America. And he doesn't support raising the minimum wage. And I have said come out of the those towers named for yourself, and actually talk and listen to people.
Don't just fly in that big jet, and land it. Don't make a big speech, and insult everybody you can think of. And then go back, get on the big jet, go back to, you know, your country clubhouse in Florida or your penthouse in New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Barry, do you think this a preview when what to expect from Clinton and Trump become the nominees? BENNETT: You know, I though this was kind of the bizarre today. The $750 in speak to some people at Goldman Sachs and that's connecting with the people. I think it is going to be bizarre.
[21:35:06] LONEGAN: Anderson, I'll give you a preview of what to expect. You expect that Donald Trump in the general election who thinks that it's OK for grown men to go into the little girl's room who wants to raise tax ...
BENNETT: Oh come on, stop that. Stop that ...
LONEGAN: And you know what?
BENNETT: ... bashing.
LONEGAN: He even believes in socialized medicine.
BENNETT: That is shameful. Shame on you.
LONEGAN: That's what exactly what he said.
BENNETT: Shame on you.
LONEGAN: Donald Trump came out opposed to into what ...
BENNET: Shame on you.
LONEGAN: ... transgender laws and made himself very, very clear. We all heard it.
BENNETT: Shame on you.
LONEGAN: So to deny it is wrong.
COOPER: Barry Bennett, I appreciate you being on. Thanks very much.
Coming up, remembering Prince, a private ceremony for a small group of his most beloved friends and family. I'll speak with someone who's there, next.
COOPER: Well, it could be weeks before we find out the autopsy results to know more about why Prince died. But we are learning a few new details about his final days.
On April 15th, after what ended up being his last concert, Prince left Atlanta on his private plane and the pilot made an emergency landing in Illinois. Now, today, the FAA released communication between the airport air traffic control and the pilot.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the nature of the emergency? What's the nature of the ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An unresponsive passenger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it a male or female passenger?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A male passenger.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, for now, fans, friends, fellow musicians alike, or folks singing and celebrating his life and his music at a concert in Brooklyn over the weekend. Bruce Springsteen dedicated a set to Prince and did a cover of "Purple Rain."
Also, over the weekend, Prince's publicist said he was cremated Saturday and there was a private, beautiful ceremony attended by a small group of Prince's "most beloved."
CNN political commentator Van Jones was in that group. He and Prince were friends and Van joins us now.
Van, again, I'm sorry we're talking about the loss of your friend. What can you tell us about the ceremony?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, first of all, it was -- the crowds outside, I just want to say we're incredibly respectful. I mean, once they -- this is not announced, it was inside, it was -- you couldn't see it, but once it was clear, you know, Sheila E. showing up, other people, including myself showing up. The crowds just parted, it was incredibly respectful. The family really, really appreciates the level of love and support that shown, even as -- it was obvious that this, you know, funeral, service way we want to call it, the memorial service going to happen.
My experience of it was pretty shattering because Paisley Park itself to me was like the most free space in the world. You know, you always need a passport to go in there because you're just leaving normal reality, you know. And anything is possible, this energy, this excitement, you know, the recording studio, it's all. And you walk in there and it just felt empty. I'm like, why did this feel empty? You have the same 20, 30 of us are always here, he's not here.
His spirit was so big. It filled up that, I mean, it's like two or three airport hangar size house. And his spirit just filled it up. And, you open the door and you suddenly feel small. I never felt small in that building, I felt like a giant in that building, so with everybody else.
So, that was just a shattering thing. And then, who's supposed to lead this thing, you know, he's the master of the ceremony. He was supposed to have a ceremony. He's not there. And people look around, luckily, his, you know, siblings were there, his sister stood up. She took care of it. She kind of became almost like the queen mother. Sheila E. was there, who her presence, just brought everybody, OK, it's going to be all right. But it was tough. It was tough. COOPER: A family friend, I understand, said that because of Prince's fate, he made it clear that, to his family that if he were to pass he wanted to die with dignity. I mean, was the family, you think, able to grant that wish?
JONES: Yes, and also I think, for the fans and the super fans, please understand, there will be other memorial opportunities that he's a part of, obviously, he's a Jehovah's Witness, there will be a Jehovah's Witness meeting that would be announced. There will be a very, very large celebration. This -- there will be multiple, multiple opportunities for people to come together and celebrate this man. But there was just a need, I think, for that smaller group to get together and just have a moment in that building with each other.
COOPER: What was he like? I mean, one-on-one in small groups when he wasn't in front of the cameras, he wasn't on that stage?
JONES: He was a comedian. I mean, well first of all, he'd haze you and he'd kind of do the whole kind of like I'm too cool for school thing just to see how people would react. And if you could survive the hazing for the first four, five hours, then he'd start to tease you, start getting the jokes going, we get the ping pong out, he'd kill everybody in ping pong, you know.
And you just -- and he -- and might have kill you in ping pong, he wouldn't even at the time, he just stand there and he'd hit. And you'd be jumping all over the table, fall on the ground, he just would be talking trash the whole time. So, but you had to get past that little hazing that he do to people and then was -- he's just a regular guy, funny, smarter than everybody and a great guy.
COOPER: Van, I appreciate you being on, Van Jones. Thank you very much.
By now you know about Paisley Park, Van we just talked about, the complex where Prince lived and recorded music. There's another place where he spent a lot of time that was important to him and I'm assuming structure outside Minneapolis where Prince would worship.
As Van mentioned, Prince was a Jehovah's Witness, Kyung Lah reports on what religion meant to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sunday morning service of a little understood religion, Jehovah's Witness, a gathering of plainly dressed faithful mourning the loss of a brother.
JAMES LUNDSTROM, PRINCE'S JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BROTHER: Brother Prince Rogers Nelson fell asleep in death this past Thursday.
[21:45:01] LAH: You loved him very much it seems.
LUNDSTROM: Of course. Very much. We shared a lot together.
LAH: Prince, the man who shot to fame with flamboyant provocative songs.
Called this humble church, home. The conservative members here were his religious family, a private evolution of one of pop music's biggest superstars.
Prince was born Seventh-day Adventist, he believed an angel cured his childhood epilepsy. As an artist he with spirituality deeply into sexual songs. In December, 1999 telling Larry King, how music is born.
PRINCE ROGERS NELSON, SINGER: I believe that my inspiration comes from God. I've always known that God was my creator and that without him, boy, nothing works.
LAH: A friendship was lay the families still base as Larry Graham would move his religious curiosity to a defined faith, Jehovah's Witness. Church records show Prince was baptized in may, 2003. A year later in an interview with CNBC, he said his religion brought him peace.
NELSON: I'm happy with every aspect of my life, once you can clean out the cobwebs so to speak and you can see everything more than more clearly.
LAH: In 2006, his Mentor Larry Graham started attending the Kingdom Hall St. Louis Park Congregation and Prince soon followed. Graham briefly addressed members at the first service since Prince's death.
LARRY GRAHAM, MUSICIAN, FRIEND OF PRINCE: You want to be wise, we're make the joy start into most to remain royal to him.
LAH: The man shared a deep bond with elder James Lundstrom.
Tell me about Prince as a witness.
LUNDSTROM: Oh, he would go door to door, knocking on doors just like you're familiar with what our ministry is. A woman probably in an early 40's I would say, he does nice presentation and in the middle of it, woman says excuse me, has anybody told you look a lot like Prince? Its just looks like is been said but going back to the ministry here.
LAH: Here Prince asked to go by Brother Nelson, his legal last name. Dutifully knocking on doors monthly studying his Bible, marking with posted notes, working as hard and his religion as he did on his music career.
Did you see any ill health or anything?
LUNDSTROM: I just saw him recently and he is here at the Kingdom Hall, look fine, talked fine.
LAH: Prince last seen two weeks ago at his Altanta concert walking with a cane reportedly suffered from hip problems that required surgery. To hold these witness members, forbidden to receive blood transfusions say that belief had nothing to do with Prince's death. DAVID OSBORN, PRINCE'S JEHOVAH'S WITNESSIS BROTHER: Nobody said he couldn't get surgery, absolutely not. We're not anti-medicine. In fact, we go out of our way to try to find the best medical care that we can.
LAH: Calls the sympathy and grief over Prince's loss had been pouring into the church. The only solace, the witnesses believe Prince Will return to them.
LUNDSTROM: We expect Brother Nelson to be resurrected here on earth just like the Bible says.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kyung Lah joins us now. There's a lot of discussion about Prince's estate. Any talk about whether there will be donation to his church, do we know?
LAH: We did inquire about that, we asked about his past donations to the church, if that suggested anything about what he might lead in his estate to the church, if anything at all. And they weren't specific with us. The word that we got was generous, that he was always generous with his church, that he loved his church.
There are no specific rules or guidelines for Jehovah's Witnesses as far as donating to their church. There is no 10 percent tithe they leave behind. They don't have collection plates in the service that we sat in, but they do give privately. And we are told that the church right now isn't expecting anything but again, Anderson, he was generous with his church.
COOPER: Kyung Lah, Kyung thanks very much.
Up next, shock and fear in a small Ohio Town where eight members of one family been shot execution style in four different homes. The killer or killers are still on the loose. The new potential clue in the investigation, when we continue.
[21:53:08] COOPER: Tonight a possible motivation in the execution style of killings of eight family members at Four Homes last week. The murders putting a small town in Ohio on edge with the search for the killer or killers still on. Nick Valencia has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK VALENCIA CNN CORRESPONDENT: On the road that leads to the crime scenes, we meet Stan Tumidolsky Rhodens' neighbor. He says although he was home at the time of shootings, he didn't hear anything. Most people in this part of the county prefer to keep to themselves.
What do you say about the area, the community?
STAN TUMIDOLSKY RHODENS' NEIGHBOR: Nothing, they're all good people this just happened the (inaudible) that's all. I had a worry about stuff like that.
VALENCIA: While he may not be worried, plenty of people in Pike they are including a best friend of one of the victims.
MAGGIE OWENS, DANA RHODEN'S BEST FRIEND: I've been telling my kids to know just be careful, watch over your shoulder and don't go far and let me know who you're at and then just I worry a lot.
MIKE DEWINE, OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL: Do imagine if fill in a small community, who someone came in, killed eight members of a family. Four different homes.
VALENCIA: Ohio attorney general Mike DeWine has tried to comfort locals, while at the same time keeping details about the investigation close to his chess. He says for good reasons.
DEWINE: You don't want to tell the bad guys everything you know. You want to keep them guessing. That's pretty much yet, so much as I would like to inform every one about everything I we're going to stay to process, we're going to talk about what we've done but we're not going to talk about the results.
VALENCIA: Back at the weekend about hundreds friends and family of the victims gathered at a nearby church to find comfort, Phil Fulton is the pastor there.
PHIL FULTON, VICTIMS PASTOR: I can not believed how anyone could kill a mother with her 4 day old baby in her arms. That's out my round real move of thinking that anyone could that do that how heartless
[21:55:04] VALENCIA: Through mountain side appearances, Pike looks like your typical small town, nice place to live, nice place to raise a family even, but you don't have to dig deep to see it's dark side all you have to do is pick up a local newspaper and read the headlines. It was just a couple of years ago that authorities here discovered a major marijuana grow operation with ties to the Mexican drug cartels.
While authorities have not connected the murders to drugs, the discovery of a marijuana grow operation at the victims' residences is only fueling the rumors that the Rhodens were connected to some bad people, people capable of this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's blood all over the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother-in-law is in the bedroom and it looks like someone has beat the hell out of him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Nick Valencia joins us now. How sophisticated was this grow operation?
VALENCIA: This wasn't a small time operation, Anderson. A source close to the investigation tells me that this was commercial grade, a major setup. The marijuana plants found at the residence of the Rhodens went for personal use or friends with something much bigger than that.
Tonight, we're also learning new information about the crime scene. The attorney generals office tells me of the four locations, that the first and fourth location, there was no forced entry. A local police saying that whoever did this was familiar with the Rhoden familiarly. How, why, or to what extent, those questions have still yet to be answered, Anderson.
COOPER: Nick Valencia. Nick, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
[22:00:09] COOPER: And that does it for us. Thanks for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts now.