Return to Transcripts main page


Opioids Found on Prince and His Home; Donald Trump's Big Foreign Policy Speech; Cruz Picks Fiorina as Running Mate; Trump Accuses Clinton of Playing "Woman Card". Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 27, 2016 - 22:00   ET




ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And that's it for us. Thanks for watching. CNN TONIGHT with Don Lemon starts now.


We do have some breaking news to start this broadcast tonight on the Prince investigation. A law enforcement official is telling CNN that local authorities found prescription opioid evidence on Prince and in his home. On Prince and in his home.

Our Dr. Drew is going to join us just a little bit later on the broadcast. But I want to begin with CNN's Evan Perez who has more. Evan, the breaking news tonight on this Prince investigation, what are your sources telling you?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Don, (AUDIO GAP) Local authorities were investigating the death of Prince, have asked the D.A. for sample. They want to know where these prescription pills came from.

These are opioid medications, typically used to treat pain and they're also commonly abused. They're very commonly abused. They're very addictive and that's one reason why you have a lot of control over who takes them and how they're prescribed.

We're told that the D.A. is now working on that trying to figure out, whether he had a prescription, whether these pills were particularly from a doctor and why that was and that's what the local authorities have asked to investigate to. These were an opioid medication that was found in the home and on him.

LEMON: All right. I just want to repeat the information, Evan, because we had some trouble at the top of the show hearing what you said first.

I want to tell our viewers, again, the breaking news is that law enforcement authorities investigating the death of Prince found prescription opioid medication on him and in his home. That's what law enforcement officials are telling CNN. The pills are commonly used to treat pain. And investigators have

brought in the DEA to help with the probe. Again, opioid medication on Prince and in his home. On him would be in that elevator where he was found a week ago, where he died.

Again, our Evan Perez is joining us with the very latest. We know Prince had a health scare about week before his death, Evan. Are investigators making a connection to that and what they're learning tonight?

PEREZ: Well, that is certainly now part of the investigation, Don. Because as you said that there was a health scare. He was on a plane, a private plane and they made an emergency landing at the Illinois airport and he was treated immediately for a potential overdose for these prescription medications.

Again, we're talking about opioid pills and they're very dangerous and it's the kind of thing that when you have someone who is unresponsive, which is what the pilot radioed in when he asked for an emergency landing, that was "male, unresponsive."

We now know that was Prince aboard that aircraft. And what they typically do is with someone who is being like that, they try to make sure, try to save his life, give the particular treatment.

In this case, they gave him a treatment that's commonly used for people who are overdosing on prescription pain medication and that is what is now part of this investigation.

Now we're not saying -- we don't know and certainly the investigators have not concluded that this was the cause of death. What we do know is that this was an incident that happened about a week before his death and that is now part of the investigation.

That obviously there's still toxicology, there is still a lot of work being done to try to determine his cause of death, but obviously that is now a piece of the puzzle that investigators are looking at to try to see if they can explain what happened.

LEMON: Yes. They're still awaiting the results of the autopsy and the toxicology for further understanding as to what transpired in this particular situation. Evan, what is the role of the DEA here?

PEREZ: Well, the DEA has a record of doctors who are allowed to prescribe. These are very potent pills. They're very -- they're very dangerous, frankly, and they're very commonly abused. And there's a tight control over who prescribe them.

So, that's one reason why the DEA is brought in, so that the investigators can figure out where he got them, if he had a prescription that was valid, if these particular pills came from a prescriber, from a doctor, or if he was getting them in some other means.

Again, we have not -- we are not suggesting and certainly the investigators haven't concluded that they were -- these pills were the cause of death or were involved in it.

[22:05:05] But it certainly adds to the information that the investigators are trying to analyze as they try to determine why he died at 57 years old. He seemed healthy in other way. It's very unexplained. And that's just one reason why they're trying to get to the bottom of this, Don.

LEMON: All right. Evan Perez, our justice reporter. Stand by, Evan. Again, if you're just joining us, we're getting the information in for CNN, this is what official, law enforcement officials telling CNN that the death or in the death of Prince that they were -- they found prescription opioid medication on him and in his home.

Again, this is just coming in to CNN. I want to turn now to Dr. Drew Pinsky, he is the host of HLN's Dr. Drew. And he joins us by telephone. First of all, Dr. Drew, what do you make of -- what's your reaction to what we've just reported?

DREW PINSKY, HLN'S DR. DREW SHOW HOST: Well, Don, I'm very familiar with all this every day. We've been covering it every day on our program at HLN. And we will of course cover it again tomorrow.

But you've been hearing rumors of a medication a name Percocet has been flying around as an alleged medication. That is an opioid name medication. And it really does matter what the name of that medication is.

As opioid are opioids they are a very dangerous pain medication. You know, this is a reminder that 90 percent of the opioids are prescribed on earth are prescribed in this country. We are way too heavily prescribing of this medication.

That's the pilot issue, the issue of him coming off the plane after he'd landed on an emergency basis. I've actually heard the pilot call from the emergency call where he said he had a patient, a flyer with an altered sensorium.

Whenever a first responder get this a patient with an altered sensorium they are going to give them the Norco medication, let's say a medication, even if they have no knowledge of the patient being an opioid pain medication or not.

In this case, assuming the assumption is that that did work because he was on this medication, it's probably why he was able to leave so quickly from the hospital.

And, again, a reminder about these medications, although they're dangerous and they overprescribed and we're far too casual with our use of them, in fact it's rather difficult to overdose on an oral opioid pain medication.

It's only when you add in a sleeping medication or a benzodiazepine anxiety medication that that combination of the opioid and the benzo is lethal. It's a very dangerous combination and it's a very common combination. And we heard this story of Prince being up for 154 hours and not being able to sleep. In my hunch is that in addition to the opioid there was a benzodiazepine that was given to him because of that sleeplessness. And that, if there are substances involved in what -- in this tragedy, it's that combination that we'll ultimately going to find out was the culprit.

LEMON: Dr. Drew, let's talk a little bit more about your reporting, and some of the other reporting that's out there. Now, some organizations have reported that he had problems, he was suffering from hip problems, Dr. Drew, I'm sure you heard that.


LEMON: And that he had corrective surgery sometimes in 2010, specifically TMZ has been reporting that and they have been far, you know, leading on this particular story and reporting that Prince had died.

But then they said he got hooked on that drug. Does that sound right to you?

PINSKY: It sounds plausible. There is this horrible sort of merry-go- round the patient gets into these days. A very common in this country where there's a lack of understanding on part of the patient and even on the part of the treating physician as well that opioid pain medication are really not a good treatment for chronic pain and they tend to perpetuate and intensity pain.

And my great fear is that this poor man got involved in that. Again, this isn't addiction, though. It can be addiction but it can be really just a medical misadventure. And my hunch is, this is not addiction.

I really don't believe this man had addiction. You don't hear a story of a long progressive struggle with this disease of addiction. We hear recently something happened, he got, something got out of control and maybe it had to do with what happened to poor Prince. That is a medical misadventure more than addiction per se.

LEMON: So then, what is it, then, we seem to talk about this a lot when it comes to prescription medication and people, you know, confusing their medication or being prescribed the wrong medication or the wrong doses or combinations, as you say may have happened here.

Do our drug enforcement people, our doctors, our prescribers and you can get a handle on this? What's the problem here, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Don, it's so complicated. I mean, it's more than you blow up to a special on this. The use of opioid pain medication is profound, it is excessive. Let me just give you a couple of shorthand sort of caveat.

When addicts today die, they do not die of an illicit drug. They die of a prescription combination of benzo and opiate. Virtually 100 percent of patient that have died have died of that combination. They died with a prescription prescribed by a doctor taking it essentially as prescribed, maybe a little too much because I brought there addict and then they stop breathing.

It's a dangerous combination. Physicians have not caught up with this yet. We have the problem of people with chronic pain taking a medication, opioid, that really is not considered an effective long- term treatment.

[22:10:07] And yet, there are many forces in place that really hamstring physicians that they have to have keep prescribing it. Their system that workers cap, their system like patient satisfaction survey, there are attorneys that line up that really doctors prescribing this medication that are not useful.

And again, 90 percent of the opioid prescribing on earth are prescribed in this country. Now because we have more pain and more suffering we are far too liberal with the prescribing of these medicines.

LEMON: Yes. But again -- but again, what you said is that you don't believe that he had that it was probably not addiction, it was just some, you said a combination and an unfortunate combination you said?

PINSKY: I think we're going to discover, just in my hunch -- I mean, it could be addiction. Of course, he's a very private guy and maybe something was happening we just don't and we're not aware of.

My hunch is we're going to find that there were some chronic medical problem that he was contending with, amongst which was a pain syndrome that got treated too aggressively, a combination was put in that was really dangerous particularly with somebody when a chronic problem and that was that.

I'm really highly suspicious -- of course, I don't know, this is pure conjecture at this point. But it just smacks of that kind of a combination of problems that really results in what we call a medical misadventure.

LEMON: All right. And that is Dr. Drew. Again, Dr. Drew, he knows a lot about this stuff. But again, the official reporting is that investigators found prescription opioid medication on Prince and in his home.

Again, a law enforcement official told CNN that. Dr. Drew, thank you very much.

PINSKY: All right.

LEMON: Just a programming note about Dr. Drew's program. Dr. Drew's HLN's Dr. Drew airs at a new time, at 7 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. on HLN. Again, thanks to Dr. Drew.

I want to bring in now CNN's Stephanie Elam who has been reporting on, she's on the phones as well. So, Stephanie, you are following the latest on the Prince estate. We have this new information about the opioid, about the medication. We know he didn't have a will. What else can you tell us about this new information?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Then we know that, Don, because of his sister, Tyka. Nelson had filed saying that she did not know of a will. What we've learned is that they've now had a basically had a conference call to discuss this further with Tyka and the relatives.

And what happens since Prince's -- his parents had already passed away, he doesn't have any living children, and so, that means he doesn't have a spouse either. So, that means that his siblings now will have to work this out and figure out what they're going to do with all of the assets that Prince had.

So, he has his full sister, Tyka Nelson and then he had five half siblings as well. So now, we do know that they are going to work through this. One of the things that they have done in court is that they've actually decided who the special administrator will be, who will now have basically the authority to go through and take a look at the assets, and to determine who the heirs are and how they will handle them.

And the latest issue on that as well, is now they've set up this hearing for Monday to start beginning the legal process here. And this basically means that they do believe the court has agreed with Tyka Nelson that they do not believe that Prince had either a will or a trust.

So, now you're probably looking at years here, Don, before there's any resolution as to what will happen with Prince's property.

LEMON: All right. Stephanie Elam, thank you very much. So, that is the very latest we have on the Prince's investigation. Stephanie Elam reporting that he does not a will.

A special administrator is taking a look into the case to see who is going to control that will, possibly the sister.

And also, investigators, local authorities investigating the death of Prince found prescription -- the prescription opioid medication on him and in his home. Again, that's according to a law enforcement official who is telling that to CNN.

As soon as we get the very latest on this, so more on this we'll bring you more information on the death of Prince. Also the latest on a crazy day of politics ahead here.

Donald Trump goes to Washington and Ted Cruz makes an unconventional choice well before the convention.


LEMON: At least it's fair to say that it's been a crazy day in politics. Donald Trump debut his more presidential side with a big foreign policy speech with the nation's capital.

And then Ted Cruz names a running mate without actually getting the nomination. If anybody can explain all of this to me and to you, to all of you, it's two of the smartest people in politics, and that's Gloria Borger and Mark Preston.

Good to have you here. Thank you for joining us.


LEMON: Here at 10 p.m. Eastern. So, Ted Cruz named Carly Fiorina as his vice presidential running mate.


LEMON: Yes, why?

BORGER: Why? Well, because he could and because he wanted to change a conversation. You know, Donald Trump had a big night last night, he had a major sweep, he's well on his way to that 1,237.

LEMON: A foreign policy speech today.

BORGER: Foreign policy speech. And Cruz needed to kind of have a diversionary tactic to a degree, change the conversation, tell republicans, look, this is what my ticket would look like, I have a woman on this ticket who can go up against Hillary Clinton.

She's great, she was terrific at debates, she's not unknown to you, she's a conservative and on and on, and he just put all those chips in the middle of the table. So, there it is.

LEMON: Cart before the horse?

BORGER: A little bit, sure. I mean, not a little bit, a lot actually.

LEMON: A lot. Yes. So, Sunlen Serfaty, CNN's Sunlen Serfaty got an interview with Carly Fiorina a short time ago. Mark, I want you to listen to it.


CARLY FIORINA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything about this campaign, everything about this election is unprecedented. Let's face it. These are unprecedented times. And we face unprecedented challenges and dangers.

I think this is a confident leader who knows what he wants to do for this nation and who wants the nation to understand who he is, what he believes and who he wants by his side to fight this fight on behalf of the American people.


LEMON: Is it bold, Mark, or as some have been saying desperate, especially those on the Trump side?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: No, it's definitely desperate. I mean, there's no doubt about it that this was a desperate move to try to stop Donald Trump from becoming the nominee.

You can't fault for it, though. He's mathematically eliminated right now from getting the nomination.

BORGER: Why not?

PRESTON: He needed some kind of game changer. You know, what's interesting about this is two things. One is, whenever a candidate picks their V.P. there's so much suspense behind it. We're wondering what's going to happen, who is going to be.

[22:20:02] There was no suspense on this one. The second thing is, Ted Cruz wouldn't be in this position right now had he just simply weeks ago embraced the republican establishment and got them all on his side. And he failed to do so. He chose not to do so. And had he done so he would probably would have a better chance of stopping Donald Trump for that.

LEMON: I was looking for, we have this poll from head to head likely a matchup between those two. If we can put that up because Donald Trump has been saying he is the presumptive nominee and he started attacking Hillary Clinton, already saying that she's playing the woman card.

But again, this just shows in a head-to-head matchup among woman, she beats him. I mean, Gloria, is that a smart line attack for him?

BORGER: Well, it is if you're still in a primary, OK? Because republican voters, republican women voters don't like Hillary Clinton, that's it. That's fine. So, you can attack Hillary Clinton all you want in any way you want in a republican primary.

As a general election proposition, it is not -- it is not a good idea to attack Hillary Clinton's womanhood because his negatives among women are already astronomical. And I was looking at some numbers.

And if things were to stay the way they are and he's the nominee and Hillary is the nominee, he would need to win 70 percent of white men in order to beat her given the gender chasm that now exists.

LEMON: Even if those Sanders voters are not motivated and they stay home and don't go out. He still need 70 percent?

BORGER: Well, nothing will motivate Sanders voters like Donald Trump.

LEMON: Go ahead, Mark.

PRESTON: You know, what I think Donald Trump -- the comment about the gender comment, I think was really indicative of this internal struggle that Donald Trump is having right now about whether he is going to be himself when he is going to say whatever is on his mind and whether he's going to be presidential.

And when he made that comment, that was not very presidential.

LEMON: Yes. So... BORGER: Now he would say it's politically incorrect but I'm going to be politically incorrect. And the one thing can you say about Donald Trump, which Melania has said, is that he will do the same thing to women as he does to men.

I mean, he talks about John Kasich and the way he eats pancakes and he talks about Hillary Clinton's voice. You know, his equal opportunity.

LEMON: Yes. So, after this foreign policy speech today, do we know what the Donald Trump doctrine is?

PRESTON: It's very broad. And it reached Middle America. He was successful in that speech. It didn't reach Washington and New York, but it did reach Middle America.

BORGER: Yes. No trade deals, you know, that are bad for you. We want to build up the military. No nation building, take care of business at home.

PRESTON: Make American great again.

BORGER: It's a populous message. It really plays.

LEMON: Yes. It was very America today, right?

PRESTON: Rah-rah.

LEMON: Rah-rah. Yes. Thank you very much.


LEMON: I appreciate it. Now, I want to bring in Tony Katz, a radio host at WIBC in Indianapolis. Right smack in the middle of the state that could be the most important in the race so far.

He's saying, hey, hello to you, good to you have, Tony. Good to see you again.


LEMON: So, you're talking to voters in Indiana every day. What are you hearing about the candidate? Does Ted Cruz have a shot at winning there?

KATZ: Ted Cruz does have a shot of winning here. There were two polls. There was a Fox News poll and WTHR Howie politics poll. And both of those gave Trump a plus 7, if I average them together.

Well, that's nice but that's not enough in Indiana. So, Cruz absolutely had a shot here even before the Kasich coalition building and even before selecting Carly Fiorina.

Indiana has become the referendum election, you know, what Gloria and Mark were talking about. They make a solid point. This is about Trump or not Trump in Indiana now. It's no longer about do you like Cruz? Or would you rather have a

Kasich? Are you in favor of Trump being the nominee on the first ballot or are you in favor of Trump not being the nominee at all and having this go a few ballots deep at the convention.

That is the choice that Indiana is making and when Indiana makes that choice, it will carry through to Cleveland.

LEMON: So, talk to me more about Carly Fiorina. How does she help him, does she help him in Indiana?

KATZ: I don't know yet. And I don't think anybody knows yet. But something that has been brought up and something that we've been kind of going through here is that maybe the objective of Carly isn't about Indiana.

Indiana will still go about what it thinks is best in this Trump/non- Trump referendum. But rather, Carly is about Cruz saying to republican establishment, listen, I know you don't like me, I know Mitch McConnell hates me, I know I've been the maverick, because he was the maverick before Trump was ever even on the scene.

But with Carly I'm proving to you that I know how to put together a ticket, that I know how to reach a large swath of America and I know how to play ball in order to get elected and win the White House and keep you from having to deal with Donald Trump.

If that's the play, it's an interesting play because there is no consensus on whether or not, you know, what, in is smart or you know what, this is crazy. This is a bit peculiar and we're going to watch it unfold. But I think that is the message he is trying to get across for them. We'll find out if Indiana goes for him, and it does he'll be much more inclined to say, see, I was successful.

[22:25:06] LEMON: All right. Speaking of play, since you brought it up. You're going to see what I'm doing here. Bobby Knight is in his corner. How many does that help Donald Trump?

KATZ: It really depends on who you ask. Bobby Knight is a legend, bright eye on basketball. He's legendary. And honestly, guys, with all due respect, coach cream and team, not enough of a run in this year's final four.

You got to go, kid, you got to go deep, I'm telling you! But Bobby Knight's endorsement doesn't hurt. But there are people upset with Bobby Knight when there was a big to do here about the anniversary of that vaunted, that glorified E.U. team. He didn't show to that. He was at a fund-raiser. I think it was at Perdue University.

That has got a lot of people bothered. But it was still a smart move for him. The only thing Cruz could have done to beat that aside from picking a vice president, would be like have Peyton Manning and endorse him. When he gets to Peyton Manning endorsement Cruz seals Indiana. Done.

LEMON: Are you hearing much about this deal between Cruz and Kasich? Do Indiana voters think that it's a smart tactic or is it a Hail Mary?

KATZ: I had Ted Cruz on the show on WIBC the other day and I asked him about it and referred to it as what people are referring to it, which is collusion. And he said it's not collusion, it's coalition building. And people are kind of deciding for themselves and they're 50-50 on that one.

I don't think he needed to do it. I thought it was actually not the best move for Ted Cruz. He was doing well on his own, and even that polling that I was talking about earlier, which took place before this conversation with him and Kasich, it had him in the good spot and a good place.

I don't think that needed it. I think it probably grab some people the wrong way especially here in Indiana, it's just not the way Hoosiers think from the north do the south. It doesn't work for them. In the overall, I still think Cruz is in a position to take Donald Trump.

But no one should deny Trump's opportunities here. There is no large palpable never Trump movement in Indiana. It doesn't exist. There are people who don't like him, people who don't want to be dealing with him but a never Trump movement that is not loud and palpable in Indiana.

LEMON: I got to run, Tony, but who wins?

KATZ: Oh, gosh. Ratings. Ratings win. They win huge.

LEMON: I tell you. Gloria and Mark are still on the set. And they both laugh.

BORGER: We hope so.

LEMON: I make that and I think they are great. Thank you, Tony. Always a pleasure having you on.

KATZ: See you guys later.

LEMON: All right. See you later. No doubt about it. This is an unusual campaign. When we come back, the man who says Ted Cruz picking Carly Fiorina for his running mate is both smart and then act of desperation.


LEMON: Donald Trump declaring himself the presumptive GOP nominee following his big sweep in the five northeast primaries. Yet, Ted Cruz makes the unusual move of naming Carly Fiorina as his vice presidential running mate.

I want to talk about this now with CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord, who is supporting Donald Trump, he is with us via Skype, also here Ron Nehring, California chairman for Ted Cruz, and Matt Lewis, senior contributor for The Daily Caller who is the author of "Too Dumb to fail."

Good evening to all of you. Ron, you first.



LEMON: Ted Cruz, you know, picks Carly Fiorina for a running mate. Why Carly Fiorina and why now?

NEHRING: Well, boy, Carly Fiorina is a real superstar. You know, she ran for the U.S. Senate for California when I was the state party chairman there in 2010, and she really electrifies republicans. She connects really, really well. She's a very, very solid on all of the issues that republicans are concerned about today, that the country is concerned about today.

And once Senator Cruz made a decision to choose Carly Fiorina, there was no real reason to wait on that decision. Let's get that information out there, let's have the announcement today and let the voters decide.

She's only going to strengthen the ticket and provides another person to go out and campaign, you know, very, very strongly for Senator Cruz's leadership and now voters know who they'll get when Senator Cruz is the nominee.

LEMON: I want you to take a listen to this. This is Donald Trump reacting tonight to Ted Cruz's V-pick.


TRUMP: On television they say it nicely. "He has no path to victory." That's a nice expression, right. No path to victory. He's got no path to victory. He's mathematically eliminated.

It's like if you're playing in the World Series and your team loses a game, a certain game -- he's mathematically eliminated. He has set a record, though. He is the first presidential candidate in the history of this country whose mathematically eliminated from becoming president who chose a vice presidential candidate, OK?


It's a record. Hey, look, honestly I wish him well but, folks, they're not going to do it for you. They're not going to do it.


LEMON: I mean, he said no path to victory here, Ron? Is it time to throw in the towel? Because many say he's just trying to change the narrative here and get some good news on his side.

NEHRING: Well, you know, as for Donald Trump who models himself as being the most unpredictable guy out there, the great negotiator, the flexible guy, he seems to react really predictably to every single thing that happens, which is to throw, you know, insults out there and, you know, highly personalize everything and go on some kind type tear.

So, that's not really surprising at all. Look, Donald Trump is going to be mathematically eliminated from this race on or before, you know, June 7th because this is going to a contested convention, there will be multiple ballots. And there will be no nominee that will come out in the first ballot.

But we're going to have Ted Cruz the nominee on the second ballot. That's where this thing is heading. He knows that. And if he didn't -- you know, if he really was on a pathway to become the nominee, he wouldn't flip out the way that he does.

He wouldn't -- you know, he would just blow it off and so on. But instead he goes on this tear because he knows he's not getting the altitude. Because every other republican nominee in recent times has been able to consolidate the republican base by this time. And he can't do that because he winds up insulting everybody and alienating those...


LEMON: Well, I think Jeffrey Lord probably disagrees with that. As a matter of fact, Jeffrey, do I see you laughing?


NEHRING: I would be stunned if Jeffrey Lord disagrees with that.

LORD: Well, look, Gerald Ford didn't agree with this kind of thing either. And he had not consolidated the base by the time he got nominated in 1976.

Look, I would actually, I don't want to make Ron faint but I would agree with this description of Carly Fiorina. She's terrific.

[22:35:02] I mean, I have no bones to pick with Carly Fiorina. It's just the simple math fact that Senator Cruz, whom I also like, is losing. That's just -- that's the fact. He lost here in Pennsylvania.

As a matter of fact, I'm writing a column this minute, this is the first time in history that I can -- I can research that anybody of either party has carried all 67 counties of Pennsylvania in any election. And Donald Trump managed to do that.


LORD: Not to mention all the states and all the counties he carried in all these other states.


LORD: What this says is that Senator Cruz, God bless him, just has not been able to strike a chord here in the northeastern United States and he needs this to have an election victory, as did Ronald Reagan, who did carry Pennsylvania.


LEMON: Yes. I was waiting to see how long it would take for to you bring up Ronald Reagan, since he's right there over your shoulder. But I hate to tell you, Jeffrey, but you're on television right now. You're not writing a column this moment. But when we...

LORD: But that's still historical fact, Don.

LEMON: I know. I'm just messing with you.

LORD: Those who carried 67 counties period in modern history that I can find period.

LEMON: So, Matt, to you now, you say that this move with Carly Fiorina is both a smart pick and an act of desperation. Why do you say that?

MATT LEWIS, "TOO DUMB TO FAIL" AUTHOR: Well, look, they're not mutually exclusive, you know. If you're down by -- you're down by a touchdown and time is running out, you throw a Hail Mary, that's not dumb, that's smart. That's what you do.

I actually wrote a column over a month ago saying that Ted Cruz should have picked Carly Fiorina as his running mate back then. And I think had he done it back then, he would be in better shape today, but better late than never.

LEMON: Yes. Hey, I want to ask you, you also wrote something today on Twitter. You wrote quite a lot on Twitter. You said, here's what you said -- oh, Eric Trump did, not you. Donald -- this is what the critics took to Twitter right away. I'm sorry, not you.

And here's what Eric trump said.


LORD: Don't confuse that, it's Donald.

LEMON: Yes. He said, "This is truly one of the greatest acts of desperation I have ever seen." Hash tag, Cruz, hash tag grasping a throat. And then there is one. It's from john Brabender. He said "If Donald Trump wins Indiana next week, does Ted Cruz then announce his cabinet picks? Just curious."

So, I was just talking about this, Matt, with Gloria and Mark.

LORD: That's good.

LEMON: The math really is against Cruz at this point. How can he change the outcome here?

LEWIS: Well, look, I think he has to win Indiana. And the interesting thing is that I don't know that Carly Fiorina, for all the guide things I think she can do, and I think she could help.

Look, you know, having her go against Donald Trump every day, baiting him potentially into mixing it up with her would not be good for Trump. And then she can go after Hillary Clinton in a way that I'm not sure a man can.

She's tough. She can take the fight. But I don't know that it helps him i Indiana. And that's the bottom line Cruz has to win Indiana. If he doesn't, then I think it is game over.

LEMON: All right. Everyone stay with me because we have lots more to talk about for the race -- in the race for the White House. We'll be right back.


LEMON: Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton scoring big victories in the Super Tuesday primaries. Changing the dynamics of both the republican and democratic races.

Back with me now, Jeffrey Lord, Ron Nehring, and Matt Lewis. Matt, I got another question for you. Trump's big foreign policy speech today he had some pretty harsh word for the Obama administration. Listen.


TRUMP: Our rivals no longer respect us. In fact, they're just as confused as our allies. But an even bigger problem is that they don't take us seriously anymore. Truth is, they don't respect us.


LEMON: How would president Trump go about regaining that respect?

LEWIS: Well, look, I think it would be about doing what you say that you're going to do. So, no -- you know, no red lines. I think it would be about building up the military as Trump talked about.

So, look, I think that Trump is clearly identifying an area where most republicans are going to agree with him on. The question is it gets a little confusing. And you know, even some of the things that I've said are almost contradictory, right?

I said it would be doing what you're say you're going to do. But, on the other hand, Trump says, well, but we have to keep people -- you know, don't telegraph what you're going to do, and we have to keep them guessing.

So, you know, look, I think that speech had elements of brilliance in it, there were things that I really liked, but it's almost like there's a final draft yet to be written, like the editor needed to go over that speech one more time.

LEMON: All right. Fair enough. Jeffrey, I have this for you. This is Madeleine Albright, she went on a Twitter tirade. I'm going to read some of it to you tonight. Almost the firing off at least a dozen tweets about this. All right.

She said "the so-called, hash tag, Trump doctrine is simply bellicose rhetoric strung together with contradictory statements. Bluster is no strategy, Mr. Trump." And then she added, "Trump reached unpredictability as a policy then asks us to trust with a new clear codes." And then, she says, "Trump's understanding of the trade policy is simplistic at best and would have disastrous effects on the economy."

A lot of foreign policy experts, Jeffrey, are having similar reactions. What do you say to that?

LORD: Well, you know, that's a really easy one. Today, we learned in the news that the North Koreans went to great lengths to construct a replica of the blue house, which is the South Korean equivalent of the White House.

And why do we remember about Madeleine Albright? If she went to South Korea, sipped the, what, the wine or whatever they were sipping up there, went to games, did all sorts of things to get good vibes from the North Koreans, and here they are plotting new -- apparently assassinated the president of South Korea. So, how did that work?

Madeleine Albright is the epitome, is the personalization of exactly what is wrong with the American policy at least when it comes to foreign policy. And this is why Donald Trump like Ronald Reagan said, "Our policy needs to be changed, it is rustic, it is old, it is out of shape, it is wrong, it's going in the wrong direction and we need to think a new."

And Madeleine Albright of all people is exactly the symbol of that, so I'm glad she tweeted it.

[22:45:00] LEMON: Ron, when do you think we're going to see a big foreign policy speech from Ted Cruz?

NEHRING: Ted Cruz is no stranger to the critical issues that are facing America in the areas of national security and our defense globally.

What was really fascinating about the Donald Trump's speech today, is that it was kind of like if you put 100 bumper stickers in a bucket and then dump the bucket and whichever bumper stickers were face up, that's what your speech was.

I mean, Donald Trump when it comes to matter matters such as the Iranian nuclear deals -- you know, Jeffrey Lord has mentioned the, you know, the Koreas. Well, Bill Clinton had a nuclear deal with North Korea, and North Korea today has a nuclear weapon.

Yet, Donald Trump says that he will abide by the terms of the nuclear deal that Barack Obama negotiated with Iran. Ted Cruz by contrast would tear up that nuclear deal on day one.

Donald Trump says that he wants to be neutral between Israel and the Palestinians. Well, that's really interesting because Israel relies upon U.S. military aid in order to protect itself from terrorists who are on its border with Hezbollah, with Hamas and other -- and ISIS having designs on the country -- on the State of Israel itself. Yet, Donald Trump wants to be neutral in that regard. This is someone

who Donald Trump who has said that he wouldn't mind the U.S. pulling out of NATO. I mean, he doesn't even understand the role of NATO.


LORD: That's just not true.

NEHRING: So, Donald Trump is categorically unprepared to be commander-in-chief of the United States.

LEMON: Jeffrey.

NEHRING: And to just watch the speech from today he was so awkward at delivering it, I mean, clearly, you know, he was reading a speech that he didn't really fully understand...


LEMON: But a lot of people read. A lot of politicians, though, Ron, read from teleprompter.

NEHRING: But look at -- look at the delivery. Look at the delivery.


NEHRING: This is somebody who is unfamiliar with...


LEMON: I have to cut -- I've got to go. I'm sure on time. But Jeffrey, because you earn vote there as we say on the debate, go ahead and respond just quickly.

LORD: Yes. Well, sure. I mean, I know the people, some of the people who are involved in this. This was a serious speech. It's getting good reviews. It's getting bad reviews from people who don't agree with the premise. That I certainly understand.

But again, it was quite Reaganesque saying we've been here before, this is not working, we've got to change. And that's where he wants to take the country...


LEMON: I give -- I give you props. You got three Ronald Reagan references in in both those segments.

LORD: Hey, my friend.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it.

Coming up, Donald Trump accuses Hillary Clinton of playing the woman card. What do women voters think about that?

[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Donald Trump had a triumphant Super Tuesday and now he is

turning his attention to Hillary Clinton. But will it work?

Let's discuss. Kayleigh McEnany is here, CNN...


TRUMP: She's got nothing else going. And frankly, if Hillary Clinton were man, I don't think she'd get 5 percent of the vote. The only thing she's got going is the woman's card, and the beautiful thing is, women don't like her, OK? And look how well I did with women tonight.


LEMON: I jumped the gun. I was so excited to get you guys on, that I started introducing you before the sound bite.

So, joining me now is Kayleigh McEnany, CNN political commentator and a Trump supporter, Mel Robbins, CNN commentator. I haven't seen you a while. Hi, Mel -- and Amy Holmes.


LEMON: Conservative political analyst. Good to have all of you. And Kayleigh, I'm going to start with you. So, you just heard Donald Trump. He says Hillary is playing the woman card. Here's Hillary Clinton last night.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, the other day, Mr. Trump accused me of playing the, quote, "woman card."


Well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in!



LEMON: That was a good line. So, I mean, what is the woman card? And does Hillary Clinton using it do you think?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, she is. And that's -- this is a thing. She can enumerate those issues that she wants to fight for all she wants but she sets our generation of females back any time she uses gender to her advantage.

If you don't want to be seen for your gender then you don't use your gender. When you're in a debate with a man and the man said excuse me, I'm talking, you don't then use that as a gender manipulation to holds to appear the weak of victimized female.

If you want to be a strong female you have to act like a strong female when you're standing across from Bernie Sanders or another female.

HOLMES: I don't disagree and I am woman hear me roar, all right? But she has used the gender card effectively. She did when she ran from the Senate in 2000.


HOLMES: And if you remember Rick Lazio charged across the stage and she seemed to be, you know, a victim of that maneuver.

LEMON: Yes, I remember that.

HOLMES: And it worked -- she did. She did. And it worked for her. I think Donald Trump is exactly right that she has played the woman card as have democrats in so many past elections.

Let's look at what happened to Mitt Romney in 2012 when he was constantly being accused of waging a war on women and that the Democratic Party seems to believe that they have a monopoly on women's issues and the women's vote.

Well, I'm here to tell you and the CNN audience that women are not a monolith, that we have many different issues that we care about, that we just don't just think with our gynecology, we think with our brains. All right.

LEMON: You scared me! I was like where is she going with this!

HOLMES: Where is that going? No, reproductive issues, yes, they are number one issues for some female voters but not for others.

And by the way, republicans usually win a majority of married women with children.

LEMON: OK. Mel, but you say Hillary Clinton should absolutely play that card. Why is that?

ROBBINS: Why not? She's a woman and there's nothing wrong with it. If you look at 2014, Harvard Business School study, 450,000 people over a decade that were asked who were better leaders, resoundingly they said their female leaders.

There's nothing wrong with playing the woman card. She is a woman, Don. And she should not shy away from using it, just like Donald has been playing the billionaire card and the fact that he's a businessman and a non-politician card.


HOLMES: Well, wait a minute. Being a billionaire is something that you make for yourself.

ROBBINS: I mean, come on, I think she handled it perfectly...

HOLMES: Being a woman is what you're born with. ROBINS: I think she handled it beautifully. And I don't think there's anything wrong with actually playing whatever the woman card is and leading with it. It makes her different in terms of how she leads.

But the bottom line is, I also think that Donald is wrong in saying she'd only have 5 percent of vote if she were a dude. If she were a dude or a man that was the former Secretary of State that has the track record that she has, that has been in the same marriage that forgave a cheating spouse, that has the family values and is a Christian like she is, she'd actually have more people voting for her.

[22:55:08] So, I think the fact that she's a woman has been a little bit of a deficit in this race and she's played her cards very well.

LEMON: Go ahead, Kayleigh. I know you're shaking your head. I want to read something from The New York Times, but go ahead. Why are you shaking your head?

MCENANY: Yes. I mean, Any is exactly right about democrats treating women like monolith, you know, they feel like is they stout out this thing like women reproductive health funding that all of a sudden all the women will come on board. I mean, how insulting is that as a female? You know, I care about jobs. My generation cares about student loan debt. We don't care about these women's issues...


ROBBINS: Yes, but Donald is not talking about student debt at all.

LEMON: OK. But let me read this. No, let me read this because this...


ROBBINS: So, if you actually care about it you should listen to what Donald is saying which is nothing. He has not spoken at all about student debt. So, these things that you're talking about, he's not talking about.


LEMON: This goes along, Mel, if you let me in here...

ROBBINS: And if you look at his track record of how he treats women is actually horrible.

LEMON: ... with what you're saying, Mel.

HOLMES: I'm listening, Don.