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Sanders: I'm In It To Win It; Source - Prince Had Opioid Medication; Ted Cruz Names Carly Fiorina as VP Pick; Trump: Cruz is "Mathematically Eliminated"; Donald Trump Gives Foreign Policy Speech; Poll: Non-White Voters Support Clinton Over Trump; Trump Claims Clinton Playing Woman Card. Aired 11p-Midnigt ET

Aired April 27, 2016 - 23:00   ET



DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Trump goes to Washington. And Ted Cruz makes an unconvincing choice well before the convention. This is CNN TONIGHT, I Don Lemon. Donald Trump debuts more presidential side with a big foreign policy speech in the nation's capital in the wake of his super Tuesday's sweep of five states. But don't worry --


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Foreign policy will always put the interests of the American people and American security above all else. It has to be first. Has to be.


LEMON: But don't worry, he's not getting too presidential. Not yet anyway.


Lying' Ted, right? Lying' ted. He's an outright liar.


LEMON: And not to be outdone, Ted Cruz makes a big announcement, his vice president.


TED CRUZ, REPUBLICIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: After a great deal of time and thought, after a great deal of consideration and prayer, I have come to the conclusion that if I am nominated to be president of the United States, that I will run on a ticket with my vice presidential nominee Carly Fiorina.


LEMON: So ordinarily waits to actually get the nomination before choosing a running mate, but you do you, Senator. Meanwhile on a day that lays off hundreds of campaign staffers, the day after Hillary Clinton won four of five states, Bernie Sanders says this -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me also make it clear so that there is no confusion. We are in this campaign to win and become the Democratic nominee.


LEMON: We're going to get to all of that. But I want to begin with the breaking news on the Prince investigation. CNN's Evan Perez is here with more on what authorities found they searched Prince's home. So Evan, the breaking news tonight, investigators are speaking to CNN. What are they telling you?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: They found opioid medications both on his person and in the home, Don. So that's significant because now they're trying to figure out whether that played any role in his death. And this is now why the local investigators have brought in the DEA because they want to know where these medications came from. They want to know whether or not he was prescribed these medications, or whether someone else was giving it to him. How long has he been doing it and whether or not this played a role in his death? There's still a lot of investigation to be done. They are still waiting for toxicology results to come back to determine whether or not this played any role in the death.

LEMON: We know he had a health scare about a week before his death on an airplane. Are investigators make anything connection to that?

[23:05:00] PEREZ: It certainly adds another piece of the puzzle here, because was traveling and he had an emergency landing in Quad Cities Airport in Illinois. When the pilot radioed in that they needed to have this emergency landing, he said they had an unresponsive male. We now know that that was Prince. We're told that the authorities found that he was provided or he was treated for a drug that is commonly used to treat people with overdoses for opioid medications. Again, it doesn't mean necessarily that's what he was on. A lot of times they give this treatment to people just in case. And it doesn't do any harm if you're not suffering from that, but it certainly adds another piece of this puzzle because it means that they had reason to is something he needed to have. And it saved his life obviously.

LEMON: Investigators have brought in the DEA to help with this case. What's the role of the DEA?

PEREZ: Their role is to figure out who prescribed this and if there was any prescription. If he had a legal prescription and if there was some other source for this drug. This is a very commonly abused drug, opioids. It's tightly controlled by the DEA. They know the records of doctors and so on who prescribe these medications. And so that's one reason why they're involved now.

LEMON: I want you to stand by and I'm going to bring in Dr. Drew Pinsky of HLN's Dr. Drew. He joins me now via Skype. Drew, thank you so much. What's your reaction when you heard this? DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, HLN'S DR. DREW: We heard he had hip pain and

it was rumored he had been treated with Percocet, which is an opioid pain medication. And I said repeatedly, doesn't matter the name of the medication, opiates and opioids are all dangerous pain medications equally, but they become lethal when they're combined with a benzodiazepine or a sleeping medication. We heard rumors that Prince hadn't slept for 154 hours. I think I heard that number over and again. I guarantee you if he called a physician and complained about that someone would have given him a benzo or sleeping aid that on top of the opiate could certainly be something that's something that figured large into the story. I want to also then comment about the plane landing and him receiving Narcan in the field. Narcan is always given for an unresponsive patient, whether you know they're on opiates or not. Always given, because sometimes an unresponsive patient is due to an opioid ingestion. Non in this case, it seen that he woke up afterward, or a least got sufficiently well that he could leave the hospital rather prematurely after two hours suggesting that he did respond the Narcan. Which again is an opioid blocking agent.

LEMON: Is it hard, Dr. Drew, to overdose from a pain medication like this?

PINSKY: It is. Listen, 90 percent of the opioid pain medication prescribed on earth are prescribed in the country. There is a grotesque overprescribing of pain medication. And my great fear is that poor Prince got involved in a medical miss adventure, where he was overprescribed or even appropriately prescribed, but then you add in a benzodiazepine, a valium like drug or an Ambien like drug that combo the opiate with the benzo is a lethal combo. The opioid by itself is very difficult to overdose on. The two together, very easy to overdose on.

LEMON: How do you read this doctor. Does this sound like Prince had a chronic problem?

PINSKY: It doesn't. You know, I worked in addiction for 20 years, I worked in a psychiatric hospital for almost 30 years. And what we don't see with Prince is this chronic, ongoing progressive problem of behavior and struggles with addiction. You don't see that in his history. What you see is all of a sudden trouble here late. My fear is my hunch is -- and again as a clinician only -- nothing's being discussed yet. But my hunch is there's some kind of underlying chronic medical problem that became affected by the prescribing recently in such a way that the two together really added into a catastrophe.

My fear is that once again it is my peers and that relationship with opiates and benzos owes that kill. These days if you're an addict, you're not going to die, you're not going die of an illicit drug. Cocaine isn't going to kill you and even heroin isn't going to kill you. It's the prescription that we find at the bedside. Look at every celebrity that's died in the last five to seven years. You see a prescription at the bedside with one of peer's name's on it. In the case of an addict just taking a little too much, but it's that lethal combo that results in their demise.

LEMON: Thank you, Dr. Drew. I appreciate that. And our programming note for our audience, HLN's Dr. Drew not airs at a new time 7 p.m. eastern. Again, out thanks to Dr. Drew and the Evan Perez as well.

Let's turn to the wild day in politics, shall we. We want to go out to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty in Indianapolis for us. Sunlen, hello, Ted Cruz, trying to breath some life into his campaign. Announcing Carly Fiorina as his running mate today. You're polling the campaign. You spoke to Carly Fiorina. What is she saying?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Don. You know, I spoke with Carly Fiorina right after she stepped off stage with Senator Cruz.

[23:10:00] And really speaking how quickly this all came together. She said to me that she was only asked formally yesterday by Senator Cruz to be his running mate, although she did indicate that these conversations had been going, in her description for quite some time. But I did talk to her about the criticism surrounding much of the announcement today. This conversation swirling around that so much of this seems like a very shrewd political maneuver by the Cruz campaign. the criticism that it seems like an act of desperation. And they asked her directly respond to that. Here's what she had to say.


CARLY FIORINA: Everything about this campaign, everything about this election is unprecedented. Let's face it, these are unpresented times and we face unprecedented challenges and dangers. I think this is a confident leader who knows what he wants to do for this nation and who wants the nation to understand who he is, what he believes and who he wants by his side to fight this fight on behalf of the American people.


SERFATY: So really Fiorina right there trying to say that this is an atypical move, because this is an atypical campaign. And she later went on to really respond to Donald Trump's criticism more directly saying point blank that "I will see you on the campaign trail, Donald." Do really, Don, really indicating that she intends to bring her attack line to the campaign trail now in its more formal capacity within the Cruz campaign.

LEMON: And so when Donald Trump already sees himself as a presumptive nominee in this race so how is he responding to Cruz's big announcement?

SERFATY: It's interesting. He certainly is responding specifically to the Fiorina announcement, specifically about her, Trump bringing up at many times today recent things that Fiorina has said about Senator Cruz when they were once running against each other, where once GOP rivals. But certainly Trump is really honing right in on what this says about Senator Cruz and what this says about the status of his campaign. Trump saying it's a sign of desperation and he's just wasting his time choosing a vice presidential running mate given at that he has no mathematical path to the nomination before a contested convention. Here's what Donald Trump said earlier tonight in Indianapolis. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: On television they say it nice les nicely, "He's got no path to victory." That's a nice expression, no path to victory. He's got no path to victory. He's mathematically eliminated. It's like if you're playing in the world series and your team loses a game a certain day. He's mathematically eliminated. He has set a record, though. He is the first presidential candidate in the history of this country who's mathematically eliminated from becoming president who chose a vice presidential candidate. OK. It's a record. Looking honestly, I wish him well but folks, they're not going to do it for you. They're not going to do it.


SERFATY: So Trump there really laying into Ted Cruz, casting him as someone who is almost presumptuous in picking a vice presidential running mate when he has such an uphill climb towards the potential nomination, Don.

LEMON: All right Sunlen, thank you very much. And when we come right back, Donald Trump's big foreign speech. Did he convince voters that he can be presidential?


LEMON: What a day in politics. Donald Trump debuts his more presidential side with a big foreign policy speech at the nation's capital, and Ted Cruz names a running mate without actually getting the nomination. Here to discuss all this is CNN's Kayleigh McEnany, who is a Trump supporter. Also Ron Nehring, California Chairman for Ted Cruz, and Matt Lewis, Senior Contributor to the "Daily Caller" and author of "Too Dumb to Fail." OK, good to talk to all of you. Ted Cruz, Ron, picks Carly Fiorina for a running mate. Is this a hail mary, you think?

RON NEHRING, CALIFORNIA CHAIRMAN FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ: Carly Fiorina is tremendous. I got to know her when I was state Republican party chairman in California, she ran for the U.S. Senate there. She won a Republican primary, a hotly contested Republican primary. She energizes people, she's knowledgeable about the issues.

LEMON: She's very qualified though, but is this a hail mary?

NEHRING: No, it's not. I mean Senator Cruz arrived at his decision as to who he would like to see as his running mate. And why sit on it until the convention? She's a very, very powerful campaigner. She's a great addition to the team. Now she can go out and campaign with Senator Cruz continually, and American people can know this is who the ticket is. If we nominate Ted Cruz, we're going to have Carly Fiorina being a great vice president of the United State. It's a total winner.

LEMON: We heard Donald Trump say that Cruz doesn't have a pathway to the victory. He's been mathematically eliminated. That's his words. At what point does he call it quits? NEHRING: Well Donald Trump is going to get mathematically eliminated

on or before the seventh of June. Because he's not going to get the delegates he needs in order to win this on the first ballot. Look, this is going to go to the multi-ballot election. We all know that. Donald Trump doesn't get the altitude he needs in order prevent that from happening. It will be up to the delegates to exercise their judgment to see who is the candidate, who is at the center of the Republican party. And he is an advocate for those ideas that the party is all about and can go on and win the general election against Hillary Clinton. That is Ted Cruz overwhelmingly and with his running mate Carly Fiorina.

LEMON: Kayleigh?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, you know, this was a hail mary today what we saw. You know, Ron just asked, why sit on this until the convention? I would ask, why announce it today? He announced it today because there were five states that Ted Cruz got trounced in. The smallest margin Donald Trump won by was 29 points. So this today was an effort to change the news cycle away from Donald Trump's victories and towards Ted Cruz. I agree with Ron, that Carly Fiorina is tremendous, but this is a desperate move and it's time for Ted Cruz to do what Bernie Sanders is doing, and come together and try to unite this party and do it around Donald Trump.

LEMON: Matt, smart move, act of desperation?

MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR "DAILY CALLER" AND AUTHOR OF "TOO DUMB TO FAIL": Both, yes. All of the above. I think everybody is right here. If Ted Cruz was up by five points and had more delegates, there's no way he'd be picking a nominee today. I just wouldn't happen. So clearly the fact that he's doing it, he needs to get momentum. He wants to have two people out there on the stump doubling his effort. And yes, it's his desperation but I think it's a smart move. It doesn't mean he's doomed.

[23:20:00] I think Ted Cruz still can pull this off. It's not going to be easy. He has to win Indiana. But, yes, this is something you do when your back's against the wall.

LEMON: All right, Matt, to the critics now, and you know where they go. They go on Twitter. Donald Trump's son Eric tweeted "This is truly one of the greatest act of desperation I have ever seen. #Cruz #GraspingatStraws." Then there's this one, this is John Brabender, he says, "If @realDonaldTrump wins Indiana next week doe @tedcrus then announce his cabinet picks? Just curious." So, Matt, you know, the math really is against Ted Cruz at this point. Can he change anything here?

LEWIS: He's got to win Indiana. But look, Ronald Reagan did this. And act of desperation in 1976 when he pushed Richard Schweiker. It didn't work out for Ronald Reagan. Maybe it will this time, though. It's not a crazy idea. Talk about naming his cabinet, why not? I mean, George W. Bush in 2000 didn't officially do this, but he basically -- everybody knew that Colin Powell and Condi Rice and a whole bunch of people were going to be part of his administration. They went around the country. They were at the convention. It's not a crazy idea.

LEMON: What exactly does Carly Fiorina add to the race? I mean, if Trump beats Cruz in Indiana, will we see enough to stop Trump in California? Fiorina lost to Barbara Boxer in the Senate race. You're shaking your head Kayleigh.

MCENANY: Yes, I don't think she add a tone to the ticket. I think she's tremendous. She's a respectable woman, I like her a lot. But here's the thing, Ted Cruz is trying desperately to shore up his base. Ted Cruz didn't win a single state in the Southeast. Last night Ted Cruz lost among very conservative voters. He's just trying to win the base at this point. And Carly Fiorina is someone who can allegedly bring in the base.

LEMON: Go ahead, Ron.

NEHRING: Ted Cruz is someone who is very deliberate in this process. He went through a very, very long list of potential vice presidential running mates --

LEMON: The question was what does Carly Fiorina add to it?

NEHRING: That's what I was about to say. This is someone who can serve in the office of President of United States, which should be the first consideration, someone who shares the governing philosophy of the candidate of Ted Cruz in this particular case. She's been campaigning with Ted Cruz for the last seven weeks. She is just tremendous. She electrifies the base of this Republican party, she connects with people in a way that's very, very real, very, very genuine. Again, I spent time with her when I was state party chairman. Very, very impressive. She was someone who was brand new to the scene in politics in California in any 2010. She defeated two well established politicians who were running against her in the closed California Republican primary. She's going to be tremendous. I'm really glad that she is someone we can have active out there on the campaign trail in this role and now we know what opposed to Donald Trump, Mr. Flexible, Mr. Erratic, four different positions on issues on a given day. The contrast -- what does she add?

LEMON: That's not the second part of the question.

NEHRING: The contrast -- what does she add --?

LEMON: That's not the second part of the question.

NEHRING: -- the contrast with Ted Cruz just sharpened. But I just wanted to answer your first --

LEMON: If Trump beats Cruz in Indiana was a question. The full question was, what exactly does Carly Fiorina add to this race, because if Trump beats Cruz in Indiana will she be enough to stop Trump in California, because she lost to Barbara Boxer in California in 2010? That's the exact question.

NEHRING: Yes, here's what she adds. The difference between Ted Cruz and this ticket, and Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina versus Donald Trump just got sharper. If you compare all of the things that Carly Fiorina brings to the table, you know, her having been a very, very experienced in the areas of foreign policy, national security with respect to all of our various foreign intelligence apparatus. She was involved with the advisory commission on the CIA and the like. You contrast her style and her experience to Donald Trump's crazy foreign policy speech today, you cannot draw a clearer contrast there. This sharpens the difference between what Donald Trump offers, which is erratic, and steady conservative proven leadership with Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina. That is the biggest thing she brings to this ticker, further sharpening that difference.

LEMON: All right, thank you Ron, thank you Kayleigh, thank you Matt. I appreciate you all being on. When we come right back, the man who says Donald Trump's foreign policy speech was incoherent and a mishmash of populist pandering.


LEMON: Fresh off of his big sweep in the Northeast, Donald Trump goes to Washington and delivers a major speech laying out his foreign policy agenda. He vows to put the interests of the American people and American security before anything else. Joining me to discuss this is Fareed Zakaria, the Host of CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS. Good to have you here. First give me the big picture. What did you think about his foreign policy address?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Look, Trump has talked about foreign policy in the past. I mean building a wall with Mexico, slapping tariffs on China, banning Muslims. So he has a set of foreign-policy themes that are, you know, in a sense played to his strengths, populist, anti-immigrant, some would say xenophobic. This was an attempt to lay out a kind of architectural foreign policy, a grand strategy. It's fair to say it was pretty incoherent. He said we're going to get our allies to trust us more, but we're going to be totally unpredictable and I'm going to leave NATO if they don't pay their fair share. We're going to spend as much as it takes to rebuild the military, but I'm going to mainly want to pay down the national debt. We'll never spread democracy but we're going to be spreading western values.

So it's not clear what exactly it meant. There were the usual criticisms of the administration, which are fair game, frankly. It was interesting about at one point here, it was as critical, perhaps even more critical of the George W. Bush administration than of the Obama administration. But on the whole, really just a mishmash of populist pandering masquerading as foreign policy.

LEMON: You mentioned military. I want you to listen out of this clip. It's about the use of military force[00:00:00] .


[23:30:00] TRUMP: I will not hesitate to deploy military force when there is no alternative. But if America fight, it must only fight to win. I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary, and I mean absolutely necessary, and will only do so if we have a plan for victory with a capital V.


LEMON: What does he mean by that?

ZAKARIA: Well, it's a good question, right. We'll only fight to win as oppose to what, previous presidents who fought to lose? Or we don't even need a plan for victory? What he's trying to get is the idea that the military should not be ham strung, that there should be a clear path to victory. Which is all well and good but then he says he going to go in and fight ISIS and defeat them. Now here's the problem. There isn't a clear plan for victory against ISIS, because you can defeat them but then you occupy real estate in Syria. Are you going to do? Are you going to rule Syria? That has always been the thing that has stopped people. And that's the real world. Can you have these slogans but in the real world, there's the step to after you drop the bombs that's always quite complicated.

LEMON: You mentioned how he criticized the Bush administration and Obama administration, there was scathing criticism of their foreign policies, calling them a mess. That's a quote from him, especially in the Middle East. Let's take a listen to that clip and then we'll talk about it, about ISIS.


TRUMP: And then there's ISIS. I have a simple message for them. Their days are numbered. I won't tell them where and I won't tell them how. We must as a nation be more unpredictable. We are totally predictable. We tell everything. We're sending troops, we tell them. We're sending something else, we have a new conference. We have to be unpredictable and we have to be unpredictable starting now.


LEMON: So, Fareed, what then of this idea of unpredictability? Does he have a point there? Because the Obama administration has been criticized for projecting or telegraphing too much to the enemy. Does he have a point here?

ZAKARIA: Look, I think that there's always a balance here in a democracy. One of the reasons you explain what happens is -- let's say the administration, the Trump administration, sends soldiers into some country and some of them die there. And it's the first the American public has ever heard that we were operating in a foreign country. That has been problematic in the past in American history and people have felt that in a democracy, we need to know what is going on and yet you don't want to telegraph to the enemy. So it's a fair question where the balance is.

The point about ISIS is incomprehensible to me because ISIS knows we are fighting them. ISIS knows we're aiding the Iraqi soldiers, we're dropping bombs on them all the time. It wouldn't come as a surprise to ISIS that the United States was engaged in military conflict. As I said, the big problem in defeating ISIS is, what do you do to keep them defeated? What do you do to make sure they stay defeated? And that involves some kind of creation of stability in Syria. But again, in another part of his speech, Trump says no nation building. These are the contradiction, that are inherent in the nature of this. You know, when you're just kind of feeding people what they want to hear, you end up with a bunch of contradictory statements.

LEMON: Fareed, today he said he wants to be friendlier with Russia. He's not the first to think that he can reset relations with Russia. How do you think our European allies are going to respond to that?

ZAKARIA: I'm glad you use the word reset, because in this respect, Trump is saying exactly what Obama and Hillary Clinton said when they first came into office. This was the plan to reset relations and turns out Vladimir Putin doesn't like to all play nice. I think that part will unsettled the unsettled the Eastern European allies, particularly that is Poland, the Baltic states. These are countries that are worried about their actual sovereignty and territorial integrity, and they want in America that is willing to deter Russia, far from make nice with them.

LEMON: I know you have a very interesting perspective on this one because he keeps bringing up this idea of respect and saying that America is being humiliated. And he talked about the sailors detained by Iran. President Obama's reception in Cuba, and Saudi Arabia in the failure to win an Olympic bid after the President personally went do Denmark to make his case. Is this red meat for Trump supporters?

ZAKARIA: Well it's red meat for Trump supporters, because the whole nature of Trump's narrative is that we are being screwed by the world. That the United States is losing and everyone else is winning.

LEMON: Are those good examples? I mean, does he have something? Is he on to something?

ZAKARIA: Every four years some American city tries to get the Olympics, and most of the time we don't get it. Were 5 percent of the world's population.

[23:35:00] I think as a general matter, if you look around the world, we're growing 50 percent faster than Europe. We're growing four times faster than Japan. Our military remains the envy of the world. On the other hand, China is slowing down, Brazil is imploding. If you ask somebody from the rest of the world, who is doing well? They will point to America. And so what is the metric by which the United States is doing so badly? The fact that the Cuban sends one 80-year-old guy rather than another 80-year-old guy to receive Obama? Who cares.

LEMON: He does have a way of taking these complex global issues and sort of simplifying them and then projecting power at the same time. I don't know if you agree with that but I think he does. How do you think this resonated with the American people?

ZAKARIA: Look, you can always simplify if you're simplifying incorrectly? I would say somebody like Bill Clinton was also good at simplifying, but in some ways reflecting more accurately what was actually going on. Trump gets numbers all wrong. He said that the merchandise trade deficit was $1 trillion. I looked it up at $74 billion. He's off by an order of magnitude. I think what resonates is this idea that the United States shouldn't be played. That we shouldn't be taken for patsies. That the United States needs to stand up.

There's a deep tradition in America of distrust and hostility toward the rest of the world. Remember, the United States is founded by people escaping the politics of Europe, escaping the turmoil of the old world. There's always been in our DNA this idea that if we just get rid of all these, but we don't have to engage with the world. We go and we beat up the bad guys and then we leave. He plays into that. I have to say, though, when you say he projects toughness and he's constantly whining about how people need to be nice to us. It doesn't strike me as particularly presidential, doesn't strike me as it projects power. He said it again, if you listen to the clip, people have to remember we've been nice to them and they need to be nice to us. It sounds like something out of kindergarten.

LEMON: Thank you, Fareed Zarkia. I appreciate it. When we come right back, who is the best candidate for black voters and women? You may be surprised.


LEMON: Will black voters be the key to this election? Let's discuss now. Bakari Sellers, a former member of the South Carolina State House. Angela Rye, former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus, Bruce LeVell, CEO of the National Diversity Coalition for Trump It's great having you all on. So according to this new Quinnipiac poll, if the election for president if it were held today with Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump, 68 percent of nonwhite voters would vote for Hillary Clinton. Bruce, only 20 percent of minorities say they'd vote for Trump. Why do you think he's the better choice?

BRUCE LEVELL, CEO, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION FOR TRUMP: Well, we're just getting going, Don. It's still early in the game. You got to remember you're talking about a major job creator. Donald Trump is a proven businessman for many, many years. And you got to remember, he started in '87. He's been involved in the process of creating jobs from all over the country. What better way to vet a candidate that understands how to bring jobs, how to maintain jobs in his environment and, you know, at the end of the day, when you have such a dynamic leader like that, you can't help but to see a talent in that.

LEMON: Bakari, I'm sure you see Donald Trump as the better choice, too, for African Americans.


LEVELL: Of course he does.

SELLERS: No, definitely not. Even if I were to give Mr. Levell credit for Donald Trump's job creation, which I really don't. I mean let's flesh it out just a little bit. I mean the fact of the matter is an issue that's very near and dear to many African Americans right now, criminal justice reform, Donald Trump has absolutely no idea what he's going to do about reforming our criminal justice system. What does a department of justice under Donald Trump look like? We don't know the answers to that. I mean, the reduction in mandatory minimums, when you look at Cory Booker and Rand Paul, a bipartisan piece of legislation that's working on reducing these mandatory minimums, Donald Trump has said is opposed to that.

When you look at juvenile justice, the only thing you have on record is a Central Park 5, where he wanted to hang and lynch and reap the death penalty on these young African-American men who were found to be innocent. So this issue that is near and dear to the hearts of many African-Americans, Donald Trump has no idea what to do with. So I don't know how we can say he's best for African Americans when he absolutely has no substance.

LEMON: Bakari, I have one more question before I get to Angela. Because I'm going to ask about all the candidates. You know Michelle Alexander, the author of "The New Jim Crowe" and other African Americans have few reasons to vote for -- she said African-Americans have few reasons to vote for Hillary Clinton. Why are they wrong?

SELLERS: Well, I mean, I think if you look at Michelle Alexander's piece and you say that African Americans have few reasons to vote for Hillary Clinton, I think that the first retort I would have is that they have even fewer reasons to vote for Donald Trump. But I also think if you're going to analyze Hillary Clinton and you're going to look at the crime bill, which Michelle Alexander did, if you're going to look at what welfare reform, which she did, you also have to looked at things like the earned income tax credit. You also have to look at things like the chipped program. If we're going to hold Secretary Clinton accountable for the 90s, and rehash these culture wars, we also have to make sure we have a thorough accounting and have to look at everything that was accomplished during that time period, not just the blemishes on the record.

LEMON: OK, Angela, I want to ask you about Bernie Sanders. Do you think that Bernie Sanders is the better candidate for African Americans?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Even if he was, don, I think the reality of it is that the writing is on the wall. It's on the wall, it's on the floor, it's on the ceilings, it's everywhere.

LEMON: Don't say it, don't say it.

RYE: I'm just saying it's going to be very, very tough for Bernie Sanders to become the Democratic nominee. I think that the best role for Bernie Sanders is what he has decided he's going to do himself and that is to help inform the Democratic agenda.

[23:45:00] He has done a fantastic job in not on ginning up new support from young people, and raising money. We know that he outraised every other presidential candidate last month with $44 million to show for it. There's definitely a role for party, unfortunately I just don't think it's the nominee. LEMON: I want to put up this poll. This is a new USA Today poll,

Angela. The other guys can weigh in, but I'm going to go to you first, Angela. 55 percent of women said they would vote for Secretary Clinton and 34 percent said they would vote for Trump. Donald Trump said the only thing Hillary Clinton had going for her is the woman's card. Angela, go.

RYE: Go. It's like Angela unleashed. Here's the reality of this. Donald Trump is ridiculous. It is the worst type of talking point. It is the kind that we've seen him use at every one of his rallies, which is designed to gin up his very angry, mostly white, working-class voters. It's frustrating because he totally discounts the fact that he is struggling with women in his un-favorability numbers, he is struggling with people of color, especially black people. So it's interesting to me he's got this coalition of people who I've never heard of, saying that they're here too support Donald Trump. Who cares and who are you?

LEMON: Well, Bruce is one of them.

FRY: And who is Bruce? I'm sorry! I don't know Bruce. My point is --

LEVELL: Yeah, you know me. Bakari --

FRY: I'm sorry, I don't know you.

LEMON: All right, let it go, let it go. Go ahead.

FRY: But my point is the reality of this is that he has to start looking at substance. And it's so hard for him, Don. Because what is really there, right? Like he's looking at this prompter today, he's got an ad lib line here and there. It's just so not effective and he's so not presidential, despite being Donald Trump 2.0.

LEMON: Go ahead Bruce.

LEVELL: Disagree, Don, can you put up that site National Diversity Coalition for Trump? Can you do that?

FRY: Yes, we saw that.

LEVELL: You got it. Pull it up on the screen.

LEMON: But go ahead, make your point, Bruce.

LEVELL: Oh, OK, so here's the point, the bottom line is we're going through a primary, won 13 of the colonies, were going to win Indiana. We're going to go all the way into Cleveland. He will be the Republican nominee. Your own candidate, Bernie Sanders, won't even say -- if he gets out won't even say vote for Hillary. Bernie Sanders people will vote for Donald Trump.

FRY: I just want to know what colony and whose candidate?

LEVELL: Your candidate.

FRY: Not my candidate.

SELLERS: The fact of the matter is that I think that Donald Trump, we talk about Donald Trump making this change, we talk about him elevating the discourse and that just hasn't happened. I think one of the things we'll look forward to as we get forward to November is beating back on the bigotry, beating back on the sexism, beating back on what has become a George Wallace 2.0 more so than a Donald Trump 2.0. I look forward to this election really, because I look at a lot of the struggles that my father and many generations before me went through in dealing with individuals like Donald Trump and it's my turn to fight that now.

LEMON: OK. Stay by everyone. Bruce, I'll let you respond after the break. Stay with me and we'll come back. Donald Trump's message to young black voters. We'll continue this discussion.


LEMON: Back with me, Bakari Sellers, Angela Rye and Bruce Levell. OK, so Bakari was saying, Bruce, that he couldn't wait until November where, in his words, he can use trumps misogynist, or racist words against him.

LEVELL: You know, it's interesting, Don, everyone in the world is using the word racist on Donald Trump except Donald Trump. And Mr. Bakari, since you're with a candidate, and the young lady doesn't have a candidate. Here's the deal --

RYE: Angela.

LEVELL: -- I'm sorry, Angela. Has met a tremendous amount of pastors from all over the country. He had Several meetings to bring what they have going on in their community about how the Trump campaign or how Donald Trump presidency can help their communities, and, you know, I disagree you saying he doesn't understand about what's going on in black communities. First of all, have you ever even met him before? No, you haven't. I have. I know him very well. You take the time to go out to Trump towers and go out and visit all the people that work for him, African-Americans, women from all over, and you're going to sit there and tell me he doesn't understand African-Americans? Dude, are you serious?

RYE: Yes, I'm serious.

SELLERS: Let me just chime in here.

LEMON: Go ahead, Bakari.

SELLERS: Mr. Levell, I apologize I don't have time in my schedule a visit plan to Trump Towers.

LEVELL: Well then you need to take the time, to start to get the know the guy so you know what you're talking about.

SELLERS: However, I will say are a year removed from Tamir Rice. And just today we had another incident in Baltimore, Maryland. We're about a year removed from Walter Scott, where he was gunned down and shot in the back and it was on camera. We have these instances of a very specific pain that many African-Americans feel, but yet there's one voice that's been absent. That's been Donald Trump's. And if you want to talk about Donald Trump championing the issues of African American colleges, whether it's HBCU's or whether or not it's criminal justice reforms or whether or not it's living wages. Any of these issues that he's been silent. Then let's have that discussion. But can you not sit here and say he's been a champion of those issues because, sir, he simply has not.

LEMON: Angela, before you answer, he has called a number of unarmed black men being killed by police, he said it was a massive crisis but he said police officers are often mistreated. That's Donald Trump stand on that particular issue. Go ahead.

FRY: And here's the hard thing, Don. The reality of it is the rhetoric at his rallies are simply cause those things to get even worse.

LEVELL: Here we go, the word rhetoric.

FRY: It's a read word. Look it up.

LEVELL: Will you going to rally?

FRY: I'm not going. Hell, I'll get beat up. Have you seen the people that was like me get beat in the rally?

LEVELL: No you won't. No, no, no ma'am. You're wrong because you've never been, ma'am.

FRY: OK, well anyway, the point is this.

LEVELL: Talk about something when you've been to something.

FRY: Can you please let me finish because I let you finished.


FRY: At this rally where this African-American gentleman was not only punched in the face but thrown to the ground by the officers. That's because of the type of rhetoric that Donald Trump uses at these rallies. I know it's supposed to be anti-political correctness but it goes about two or three steps beyond anti-political correctness. It has everything to do with bigotry and dog whistle politician, the kind of gets people riled up, angry and act out of control.

[23:55:00] furthermore, it's not just about his stance on criminal justice reform. We can look at what he did -- you called him a job creator. I'll call him a housing snatcher. In the 70s his father and Trump were sued because they were writing Cs on people's applications. That is the true Donald Trump. That C stands for colored. That would be you and me, Bruce. So the reality of it is his record is not new. Donald Trump is not new to this. He's the one calling for Barack Obama's birth certificate. He was the one calling for his birth certificate because he didn't leave him. I'm telling you that this is someone who is not new to bigotry. He's lived it his entire life.

LEMON: Let him respond.

LEVELL: History lesson. Hillary Clinton was the first, ma'am. Do the research.

SELLERS: That's not true.

FRY: The first to?

LEMON: He's saying Hillary Clinton was the first to original to ask about the birth certificate. She's been asked about that and she's denied it. I've even asked her about it --

LEVELL: She was the first in '07 on the campaign. Fact check it.

LEMON: Ok, but listen, let's move on. Last night Donald Trump was at the time 100 gala. He told reporters he's confident that he's going to win the young black vote. Listen.


TRUMP: As a young black gentleman, you have 59 percent unemployment rate, which is incredible, which is record setting, just about record setting. And sadly nothing's been done to help young African-American entrepreneurs and business people and just people that want jobs. You look at a 59 percent unemployment rate. Donald Trump is bringing jobs back, Donald Trump is going to take care of the African-Americans and the black youth that frankly has been treated very, very badly.


LEMON: Bruce, I'll give you the last word on this. How is he going to deliver on this promise?

LEVELL: Once again, our campaign, the National Diversity Coalition for Trump, we have hundreds of thousands of people that have signed up. We have a pulse of America with Donald Trump on where these situations going on in all these communities and it boils down to jobs, Don, and a tax plan that affects African-American voters, not to mention the immigration law that affects black jobs in America, ladies and gentlemen. So you can't dispute any of that.

FRY: Yes, I can. Bureau of labor statistics. You're wrong on the numbers. There's 25 percent black youth unemployment. Not that outrageous number he continues to cite.

LEMON: I've got to go. I've got to go.

LEVELL: At the end of the day it gets back to jobs. When people have jobs, that creates opportunity for everyone.

LEMON: All right, thanks, everyone. I appreciate the conversation. Thank you, Angela, thank you, Bakari and thank you, Bruce. We'll be right back.


That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching. I'll see you right back here tomorrow night. "AC360" starts right now.