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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Indiana Governor to Endorse Ted Cruz; Senator Endorsing Sanders Says Get Out Before Convention if Losing. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired April 29, 2016 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00:] JIM GERAGHTY, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE: A point there. Look, you'd rather have the endorsement than not have it. Pence has his own political troubles. I think if he jumps on the Trump train, there are a bunch of Never Trumpers out there, if you're a consistent conservative and you say forget everything I said about what I stand for, I really like this populist authoritarian guy, I think a lot of his supporters would kind of recoil. I don't think the Trump folks who are wary of an establishment governor would jump on board the Pence bandwagon, and I don't think the Pence supporters, they would wonder, who is this guy? What did Mike Pence turn into?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: But do you think, Jim, Cruz needed Pence? There has been a lot the national review has written about this endorsement. What do you think the impact is?

GERAGHTY: You'd much rather have it than not have it. In a way it's almost odd he waited this long. It's not like there's -- if you consider yourself a consistent conservative, John Kasich who is running to be the Republican for people who don't like Republicans, winning that "New York Times" editorial board, and then you have Donald Trump who is a populist more than a conservative. It doesn't seem like that hard a choice for him. Ultimately if you're Ted Cruz, you needed this endorsement, you need Indiana. I'm not going to say it's the end of the campaign if he doesn't win. I'm just going to say if you have one of those Cruz/Fiorina signs, grab them and hold onto them because they could end up being collector's items.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Tim Miller, you worked hard for this, right? You have been from heckling Donald Trump supporters saying you would do opposition research on people like Chris Christie who endorsed Trump to directly targeting anyone who did not come out against him. Essentially you have been starting to go after people who are sitting on the sidelines. Explain.

TIM MILLER, COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR, OUR PRINCIPLES SUPER PAC: I think there's good reason to attack people that are sitting on the sidelines, and I think right here in Washington where we are there have not been a lot of profiles in courage from t Republican establishment, and that's why this Mike Pence endorsement is encouraging, if a little late. And that's because what you're seeing is conservatives, grassroots conservatives, as Jim pointed out, are aligning with Ted Cruz, and I don't know that Kayleigh attacking them is really going to help Trump so much. What you have seen from more establishment types like John Boehner is kind of an acquiescence to Donald Trump which to me is crazy. And I think it's important for folks like us at Our Principles PAC to put pressure on Republicans to stand with conservatives and not throw in a towel for a guy who doesn't represent this party.

BOLDUAN: I want to make a turn though. There's something else going on in Trump land that I want to ask about.

Jay, I want you to weigh in on this.

Donald Trump tweeted this morning about Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump tweeted this. He tweeted, "Crooked Hillary Clinton, perhaps the most dishonest person to have ever run for the presidency, is also one of the all-time great enablers."

Great enablers. He's touched on this before, enabling on the part of Hillary Clinton. What's going on now?

JAY NEWTON-SMALL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, TIME MAGAZINE & AUTHOR: Well, Donald Trump has really stepped up his woman card criticism of Hillary Clinton and in a primary that does actually help him. A lot of Republicans don't like the idea, who do believe she's playing the women card, don't like idea of identity politics and do think her husband is a predator with women and that she enabled him by standing by him as first lady.

Where it doesn't help him very much is in the general election. In the general election that brings in independent and Democrat women which he has to pull some support from, and that's by far the largest group, single and unmarried women, and those criticisms turn them off. He's already underwater with women overall and that includes Republican, Democratic, and Independent women by 73 percentage points, which is a really big problem if you're trying to win a general election, where Republicans have always historically have trouble with women going all the way back to Reagan and need to mitigate the loss of women Democrats to less than 10 percentage points in order to win the White House.

MILLER: Yeah, I don't understand, Kate, this fantasy world that Donald Trump is in, that he has disastrous numbers with women and him and his supporters think it's going to help him to engage in demeaning attacks against women. At this point the only way he wins the general election is if somehow he manages to repeal women's suffrage between now and November. He just absolutely has no appeal and it's getting worse as the campaign goes on, not better, as women are tuning in.

BERMAN: Kayleigh?

MCENANY: No. And here is the thing. Donald Trump has won women in 17 of the 25 states that CNN has done exit polls in. This is, of course, Republican women. That being said, Hillary Clinton has done disastrously among young women. And there's a reason for that. I have spent seven of the last 10 years of my life on four different college campuses and I'm here to tell you young women resent the idea they need to carry around a pink woman's card. Young women are very strong and they care about different issues, care about jobs and student debt -- (CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: But do you like this line of attack?

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: I do. Because I think it resonates with young women because here is the thing. Young women resent when Hillary Clinton stands on a stage and tries to accuse Bernie Sanders of sexism when he refers to shouting, tries to turn a moment where he says excuse me into a sexist moment. She did the same to Rick Lazio. If you want to help women, you don't do so by playing into gender stereotypes. You be a strong woman in those moments. Attack Senator Sanders on his policies, don't try to engage in an ad hominem attacks painting yourself as weak and him as the sexist, demeaning figure.

[11:35:25] BERMAN: Jim Geraghty, quick last word?

GERAGHTY: I think you go a lot further attacking Hillary Clinton as a lousy, lousy secretary of state than for blaming her for what Bill Clinton did.

BOLDUAN: We'll see if this is a preview of the future. We will see.

Kayleigh, Jim, Jay, Tim, thank you. Really appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Donald Trump says if he wins Indiana, it's over.

BOLDUAN: It's over.

BERMAN: But what does the new endorsement from Mike Pence to Ted Cruz mean? What does it change? We'll be speaking to one of Donald Trump's big supporters in Indiana next.

BOLDUAN: Plus, the only Senator to endorse Bernie Sanders now making a case for Bernie Sanders to drop out before the convention. What does Team Sanders have to say about that? We're going to talk to his campaign manager.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:27] BOLDUAN: In just a few minutes, Indiana's Governor Mike Pence, he's expected to endorse Ted Cruz for president.

BERMAN: Joining us to talk about this development and the big race in Indiana, we're going to bring in Indiana state representative and Donald Trump supporter, Robert Morris.

Representative, thank you so much for being with us.

You work in the state government. You work with Governor Mike Pence. What affect will this endorsement have, Mike Pence coming out in a few minutes to back Ted Cruz? STATE REP. ROBERT MORRIS, (R), INDIANA & DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Each

of us endorses the candidate that we believe is going to be best to run our country. I believe that Donald Trump is the best candidate to lead our country, and that's why I'm supporting Mr. Trump.

BOLDUAN: What do you think the impact, though, of the governor supporting Ted Cruz will have?

MORRIS: Well, I think it's fairly interesting. As I walk my district and meet my constituents, most of the constituents are looking for Mr. Trump to win Indiana this coming Tuesday. You know, we have a number of outsiders, you know, the Washington establishment -- we have a candidate running for Congress right now that's being criticized -- Liz Brown is being criticized because she hasn't been elected long enough. She's running for U.S. Congress. Marlin Studsman (ph), who has been a congressman for six years, he's being criticized as well because Elected long enough. These people are looking to go to Washington, D.C. Liz Brown wants to make a difference out in Washington, D.C. She's pledged term limits as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: But what does that have to do with governor Mike Pence?

MORRIS: What it has to do with Governor Pence, being elected for a long time in Congress and being friends with Senator Cruz, I'm just trying to give you a correlation between the difference in what I'm seeing in my district. As I walk my district and talk to my constituents, about 75 percent of my constituents are going to vote for Donald Trump on Tuesday.

BERMAN: So Ted Cruz has been working the state very, very hard. Ted Cruz is basically camped out in Indiana. He did this running mate gambit with Carly Fiorina there the other day. He's picking up the endorsement now. Donald Trump has been there, yes. Do you wish you had him in the state a little bit more working the Hoosier crowds?

MORRIS: Yes. He's been at the capitol a few times. He's going to be in Ft. Wayne this Sunday. I've had a number of constituents that have called me and asking questions, how to get tickets to Memorial Coliseum this Sunday at 4:00 p.m. And it's been fun to meet Mr. Trump. I believe he's going to be a great leader for our state, and come November, he's going to be Mr. President.

BOLDUAN: Do you think -- do you think you can guarantee a win for Donald Trump in Indiana on Tuesday?

MORRIS: I believe he's going to get all 57 delegates. He's going to get the 30 delegates because he's going to win the state, and then he's going to get the other 27 delegates as well because this is what the people want. And this is what us elected officials need to realize, that Donald Trump, you know, this past Tuesday, had a clean sweep. We have to listen, as elected officials, to what the people want.

And like I said, I continue to knock on doors, continue to meet people at the supermarkets, the malls. They want Donald Trump to be the person in charge and to lead our country and I believe --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: One quick question. One quick question. Carly Fiorina criticized Donald Trump for embarrassing Mike Tyson and the idea of Mike Tyson supporting his candidacy. Obviously, Tyson was convicted of rape in Indiana. Does that team up, does that make you uncomfortable at all?

MORRIS: I think as we look at things and who Mr. Trump gets behind, bob knight, when I was at the Pepsi Coliseum got a standing ovation. He said I'm not involved in politics at all. As you guys get to know me -- we've just been doing this interview a short time -- I'm not going to bash any one person. If Mr. Trump believes Mr. Tyson did his time and he's a good person today, we got to recognize that. We need to stop beating up on and look at the good qualities of people. I know that's your job as you interview, but Mr. Trump is the person that the people want in my district here in Indiana.

BOLDUAN: Indiana State Representative Robert Morris. We appreciate your time. We'll see what happens on Tuesday. Thanks so much.

MORRIS: Thanks for having me on your show. Appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Of course. Thank you.

[11:44:42] BERMAN: All right. Bernie Sanders has one supporter in the Senate, Jeff Merkley. Now the one Senator says if Bernie Sanders is still behind after all the votes are cast in June, he should get out of the race. We're going to get reaction from his campaign manager, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, one of Bernie Sanders' key supporters, Jeff Merkley, in the Senate, says if Bernie Sanders is still losing after all the votes are cast in the June primaries, he says Bernie Sanders should get out of the race so that Hillary Clinton can have a clear path as she heads to the convention.

BOLDUAN: Let's discuss this right now. Let's bring in Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, joining us now.

Jeff, it's great to see you.

Let's talk about Merkley in a second, but first, first comes first, Indiana has to vote first. How do things look for you guys? What does it mean for you?

JEFF WEAVER, BERNIE SANDERS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Absolutely. The race is very tight there in Indiana. The Senator is spending a lot of time there. I think he's going to do extremely well in Indiana, frankly.

BERMAN: So, Jeff, Jane Sanders, the wife of Bernie Sanders was on "New Day" this morning and she said something that was very interesting, and I was surprised by her answer. She was asked directly, is the campaign, is the Sanders' campaign reaching out to super delegates right now? Is the campaign calling super delegates and trying to sign them up, trying to get them to switch from Hillary Clinton to Bernie Sanders? She said no. You're not calling super delegates. Is that true?

[11:50:01] WEAVER: Well, we're not but we're in communication with them on a constant basis.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: What does that mean, Jeff?

WEAVER: Further down is -- well, we have a newsletter, which we send to super delegates to update them on the status of the campaign, a periodic newsletter to keep super delegates informed on what's going on in the campaign and how we're and moving forward. As we get further down into the process, we get closer to the convention, our efforts to reach out to super delegates will increase, certainly.

BOLDUAN: But you don't think you need to be calling them? You don't think you need to be trying to at least lay the groundwork to flip them right now or prepare them to? Should folks be reading into that?

WEAVER: Well, no. There's a number of undecided super delegates at this point and we are more intense contact with them, let's say that.

BOLDUAN: Does that mean telephone call?

WEAVER: It may mean that, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

But certainly Clinton delegates, people who have announced for Hillary Clinton, we're not lobbying.

BERMAN: You're not trying to flip them? You said your strategy is that at some point if you need to.

WEAVER: The campaign has a long way to go. We have a bunch of states coming up. Most look favorable for the Senator. As we get closer to the convention and he's closed the delegate gap with Secretary Clinton in terms of pledged delegates, that's the time to have those more intensive conversations. We've got to look at the general election polls that consistently show Senator Sanders does far better against all Republicans than does the secretary. And people have to make a decision. The unpledged delegates have to make a decision at the convention, who they think is best able to retain the White House and help Democrats up and down the ballot.

BOLDUAN: Emphasis on at the convention. Your sole endorsement in the Senate, Senator Jeff Merkley, said if you guys are losing after California, you should drop out. What do you say to him?

WEAVER: I'm not going to say anything to him. Senator Merkley is the supporter of the Senators, and he has his view, and we certainly have -- Senator Sanders has said he's going to take it to the convention. He's a man of his word.

BERMAN: So you disagree with his assessment? You're not going to take the advice of Senator Merkley in this case, flat-out, right?

WEAVER: All I'm telling you is Senator Sanders has been clear he's going to the convention and I'm confident he will.

BOLDUAN: That stands today.

Jeff Weaver, great to see you. Jeff, thank you very much.

WEAVER: Great to see both of you. Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Any minute now, Indiana governor set to enter the radio studio --

BERMAN: That one.

BOLDUAN: -- right there in front of you, to make a big endorsement announcement. It will be Ted Cruz, that's what sources say. But the campaign hasn't confirmed. What will it do for Ted Cruz in Indiana? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:57:04] BOLDUAN: One-third of all children in the United States grow up without a steady father figure. In the African-American community, it's nearly half. Sheldon Smith was one of them. But today, he's a role model helping young dads like himself in his hometown, Chicago. And that's what makes him this week's "CNN Hero."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHELDON SMITH, CNN HERO: I grew up broke and I was hurt. But I was able to overcome all of those things. What I want for these young men is for them to be involved and engaged and in their children's life to get what I missed as a boy. Father, someone who would be there for me and give me the advice I needed to be a successful young man today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You can watch Sheldon's full story at CNNheroes.com, and while you're there, nominate someone you think should be a 2016 "CNN Hero."

BOLDUAN: Another story out of the Windy City. If you need good laughs, Chicago's Second City Comedy Club might be the best place to visit. In the next episode of "Parts Unknown," Anthony Bourdain hits the place that launched the careers of some of America's favorite actors and comedians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, PARTS UNKNOWN: How is it that Chicago has become the font of comedy? It's a gusher. PAUL JUROWITZ, COMEDIAN: It started with second city and then people

came here to study. I would say 90 percent of people doing comedy right now came to Chicago to study.

BOURDAIN: Paul Jurowitz, a young man at the beginning of what will presumably be a glorious career.

JUROWITZ: This is what I get. One respects me anymore.

BOURDAIN: Second City opened up in Chicago's Old Town in 1959, and almost from the beginning, established a probably unhealthy symbiotic relationship with the ale house. You know their name, John Belushi, Gilda Radner, Amy Poehler, Bill Murray, Chris Farley. If you're funny in America, chances are you've spent some formative years here, getting the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hammered out of you and learning, once hopes, in the parlance of the trade, to kill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That should get you to want to watch.

BOLDUAN: Sounds like cable tv.

BERMAN: Make sure you turn in to "Parks Unknown," 9:00 p.m., this Sunday, on CNN.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, friends, for joining us in this fabulous hour.

BERMAN: "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[11:59:35] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. This is LEGAL VIEW.

We begin with the breaking news this hour. Just moments away, from one big endorsement in this presidential primary season. The picture on your screen may look quiet, not a lot of activity, but when those mics are firing up, everything is going to fire up. This is a live picture from a radio station in Indiana. It WIBC. If you don't know it, you're going to. Cameramen are getting ready for a very big moment when Indiana's Republican governor will walk through those doors and take to one of those mics. His name, Mike Pence. And there he is.