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How Will the Next Commander in Chief Defeat ISIS?; Indiana to Vote in Just Hours; Will GOP's 'Never Trump' Movement Run Out of Gas?; Cruz Clashes with Trump Supporters; Larry Wilmore Uses the N-Word at White House Correspondents Dinner. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 2, 2016 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: for watching. CNN TONIGHT starts now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Chilling words for the commander-in-chief, it's not going to be easy for the next president to defeat ISIS, but who will the next president be?

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

We are just hours away from the first vote in Indiana. Here is Donald Trump in South Bend tonight blasting Ted Cruz.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is choking like a dog, because he is losing so badly, and we have to put him away tomorrow, folks, we have to get out and vote. We got to get out and vote.


LEMON: It has been a rocky road for Cruz clashing face-to-face with the Trump supporters today.


SEN. TED CRUZ, (R-TX) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You, sir, America is a better country.


CRUZ: Thank you for those kind sentiments. Let me point out that I have treated you respectfully the entire time, and a question that everyone here should ask.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you Canadian?

CRUZ: Do you want your...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you Canadian?

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: And meanwhile, on the democratic side, tough talk from Bernie



SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It would be a tragedy for this country if we end up with a Donald Trump or some other republican in the White House.



LEMON: And Hillary Clinton just might have a job in store for the 42nd president.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have told my husband that he has to come out of retirement, and be in charge of this, because you know, he has more ideas a minute than anybody I know.


LEMON: And primary voters are getting ready to go to the polls in Indiana in just a few hours. CNN's Jim Acosta and Sunlen Serfaty are there for us this evening. Jim, I want to start with you. Good evening to both of you, by the way.

Jim, I'm going to start with you. You know, you have been covering Donald Trump all day, and another big rally tonight, the Indiana primary just hours away, what is he saying to his supporters?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, he used an expression I have never heard before. He told the voters here in Indiana that they live in a place called "importantville," that was the word he used. Because they are so crucial to his prospects in this race for the GOP nomination.

He knows that a lot is on the line in this Indiana primary tomorrow, and he was needling Ted Cruz all day long. Today, he made light of the fact that Ted Cruz I guess did not notice that his running mate Carly Fiorina stumbled off at campaign stage yesterday when they were campaigning in Indiana.

And when I was talking to a Donald Trump top official earlier today, they were essentially saying that if Ted Cruz can now pull off some sort of offset tomorrow if Donald Trump wins big, that is basically over for Ted Cruz, that the Trump campaign, that Donald Trump could roll up somehow 1,400 delegates before this nomination process is over.

So, they are saying that this Indiana primary tomorrow could really be kind of a springboard for his campaign. And when we heard Donald Trump earlier this evening here in South Bend, Indiana, you know, he was essentially saying that he is already looking past Ted Cruz and John Kasich, and onto the next contest ahead which he feels is going to be the general election campaign against Hillary Clinton.

Here is more of what he had to say earlier this evening here in South Bend.


TRUMP: You know, if we win, it's over. And then I can focus -- then I don't have to worry about lyin' Ted Cruz, and I don't care if he endorses me or does, I couldn't care less. But I don't have to worry about lyin' Ted Cruz. We don't to worry about Kasich who has won 1 in 44. In the popular vote, a million of vote ahead of Cruz, millions. But you know, it's a rigged system, it's totally rigged.


ACOSTA: Now, Don, as you know the endorsement are very important in this campaign, and often Donald Trump is seeing the big endorsement in just every state go to his competitors. And here, you know, it was almost the same thing. You saw Ted Cruz was picking up the endorsement of the state's governor Mike Pence.

But over the last 48 hours, as you noticed, Don, he has picked up the endorsement of Bobby Knight, the former Indiana basketball coach, a legend in this state. And then, it was one after another rapid fire announced by the Trump campaign.

Earlier today, Gene Keady who was the basketball coach at Purdue, Digger Phelps who was the basketball coach at Notre Dame, and Lou Holtz, the legendary football coach here at Notre Dame, and when you add it up, Don, I mean, the governors and the senators, and so forth they are important when they endorse your campaign. But this was basically an Indiana political sports all-star team that Donald Trump had backing him today.

LEMON: Yes, indeed. And Sunlen, you know, to you now, the polls are in Donald Trump's favor, but Ted Cruz is putting it all on the line, pleading with the Indiana voters and making a deal with John Kasich and naming a running mate. Is there any indication that all of his efforts are paying off at all?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, not yet, Don. You know, as you mentioned that triplicate of events of Hail Mary passes that took place in the Cruz campaign over the last week, it really quite frankly, has not moved the needle in that yet.

If you look at the polls show it does show him well behind Donald Trump, so certainly some feeling on the Cruz campaign that they kind of hype the stakes for what tomorrow could bring, for them tomorrow really to get people out to the polls.

[22:05:00] But if you look at some of the recent polls over to the weekend, there was interesting stat that really jumped out at me. And this was an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, 34 percent of the voters here in Indiana did not support - excuse me, supported the deal with John Kasich, that alliance that he struck up, but a whopping 58 percent disapprove of it. So, this is just one part of this strategy on the part of the Cruz

campaign, almost like throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. We'll see that's the big question mark at the end of the day what sticks there on the wall tomorrow for them.

LEMON: All right. And interesting moments as well, Sunlen, Ted Cruz across the street from an event today to talk to some Trump supporters outside. Let's listen to it.


CRUZ: I am running to be everyone's president, those who vote for me, even those who don't vote for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want you.

CRUZ: Well, you're entitled to your view, sir, and I will respect that. In fact...



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the math. You asked Kasich to drop out, it's yuor turn.

CRUZ: Well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your own words.

CRUZ: What do you like about Donald Trump?


CRUZ: Give me one.


CRUZ: Give me one of anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump (muted).


CRUZ: OK. The wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the main thing.

CRUZ: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ted is building the wall?

CRUZ: Hold on a second. You know on the wall that Donald Trump told the New York Times editorial board he is not going to build the wall, he is not going to pull anyone.


CRUZ: Well.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again lyin' Ted.


LEMON: What's he is trying to accomplish? Why even take them on, Sunlen?

SERFATY: Well, this is such a remarkable exchange, Don. You know also for a fact that Senator Cruz was actually leaving a restaurant where he was having a little retail stop meeting with the voters there. He saw these protesters, and he walked across the street, and he didn't get into the car that was waiting for him.

He walked and engage, walk right after them started engaging and as you know, heard in that sound bite, and a rather testy at times exchange. But I think that for Senator Cruz, it certainly speaks to the moment of frustration that he is feeling take on a candidate like Donald Trump, and we heard him say repeated times during that seven- minute exchange, you know, why do you support Donald Trump to the Trump supporter.

And it is something that he notably brought up are from this event here just about half an hour ago, he almost wore it as badge of honor on the stage, he told this crowd, you know, look, you can go online and see this exchange, it was seven minutes long.

So, really trying to draw a contrast with Donald Trump. He thinks that he has been answering the questions from voters and telling them their policy proposals. And you think the fact that he engaged so strongly with those supporters speaks to this moment that he is facing and this frustration that he is potentially is feeling.

LEMON: Sunlen and Jim, thank you very much. And now I want to bring two radio hosts who are hearing from voters they have their ears to the ground or they ear to the radio, I should speak.

So, joining me now is Tony Katz from WIBC in Indianapolis, and nationally syndicated talk show host, Dennis Prager. He supports Ted Cruz, but says he would back Donald Trump if he wins the GOP nomination.

It's good to have both of you on. Good evening to you. Tony, you first, are you doing OK.

TONY KATZ, WIBC RADIO HOST: I'm doing wonderful, man. The excitement is here, the energy is here, and we are ready for tomorrow, and then we'll have a drink when it's all over.

LEMON: Well, let's talk about the polls first before we get into that exchange with the Ted Cruz and the Trump supporters. Tony, do polls in Indiana tell the whole story, what are your listeners saying?

KATZ: I think it's half of the story. Can you make the argument that Trump is truly in the lead here? Absolutely. Is that 15 points as NBC/Wall Street Journal sees it? I don't think so. ARF had it 9, Clout had it too, and then there is that Mike Downs' poll which was over a longer period of time which was plus 16 for Cruz.

Now, listen, you got to be in Todd Aiken territory to see a 31-pointp sweep the other way, that's not what's happening here. It is Trump's race to lose, and one of the ways you know that he is serious about it, is that because he was not only back in Indiana to say, but he did some real politics.

And today, he stopped at Shapiro's delicatessen, which is a mainstay here in Indianapolis unannounced to shake some hands and talk to people how a ribbon with Brian Shapiro, the owner.

I happened to be there when it happened. If Donald is retail politicking, it means he wants to close the deal, and he either feels that he needs to do a little bit more or he wants to slam it shut and own this contest and make sure he goes the Cleveland with the delegates.

LEMON: OK. Tony, let me get Dennis in here. Dennis, before you respond, I want you to listen to Dana Bash's interview today with Ted Cruz. Here it is.


DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump only needs 47 percent of the remaining delegates to win the nomination outright. You need 132 percent. So, will you support his candidacy, if he, Donald Trump, gets the delegates before Cleveland?

CRUZ: Dana, nobody is going to get to 1,237. I'm not going to get to it, but neither is Donald Trump. And I'll tell you, I think Indiana is going to be a critical state in that Indiana's voting tomorrow, and I am encourage that we're seeing conservatives come together including especially Governor Mike Pence.

BASH: What makes you so sure that he won't get the delegates. I mean, getting 47 percent of the remaining delegates is not inconceivable at all.

[22:10:02] CRUZ: Well, he hasn't gotten 47 percent today, that's better than he's done. And I'll tell you.

BASH: But he sure did well last week.

CRUZ: You're right. He did well in his home state and he did well in the adjoining states. He won five states last week. But I'll you, in the hree weeks that proceeded that I won five states in a row starting with Utah, then North Dakota, then Wisconsin, the Colorado, then Wyoming, 1.3 million voted in those states.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: All right. So, Dennis, that may be true, but there is no denying Donald Trump's lead in delegates and in raw votes. If Ted Cruz gets crushed in Indiana, should he get out?

DENNIS PRAGER, PRAGER UNIVERSITY FOUNDER: No. But first of all, you do have to get 1,237 votes, and I have this issue with the number of callers to the show where they are saying, no, the guy who gets the most votes should get the nomination, and that's not the way it even works in the presidential election.

You can get the most votes and lose the election. You have to win the electoral votes. States are allowed to set the rules that they have. And I have to tell you, this constant statement by Donald Trump that it's rigged, this is -- this is the reason that I so oppose him. As you correctly noted that I will vote for him because my only other choice is Hillary Clinton.

But I am so opposing because of the dishonesty that pervades his campaign. It's not rigged, these rules were set up before Donald Trump announced that he would run for president, and yet he keeps saying rigged. You have to have 1,237 votes to win the nomination in the Republican Party. That's the rule.

LEMON: Dennis, don't you think but haven't you heard that even some party leaders is inside information that some of the pundits have been saying on the media outlets that, the Republican Party, especially the leaders are coming around to maybe believe what Donald Trump is saying, like, or to go along with it at least that whoever gets the closest should be the one.

PRAGER: Right. Well, it gives you an idea of how much closer the establishment really is to Donald Trump than it is to Ted Cruz as John Boehner made clear calling the guy "Lucifer in the flesh" and then calling him an SOB but not using the initials. That the truth is Donald Trump is the insider, and Ted Cruz is outsider, but somehow the way it's been portrayed has not just been accurate.

LEMON: Wow. OK. Donald Trump is now the insider.

PRAGER Yes, he is. He had Hillary Clinton at the wedding; the guy is good with all of these...

LEMON: Well, Hillary Clinton is not part of the Republican Party, but any -- let's move on, because I want to talk about the confrontation now, Tony, that Ted Cruz had with the Trump supporters that lasted about 7 minutes today. I want to play another clip. This one is about the second amendment. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what are you going to do about the second amendment.

CRUZ: All right. I have defended the second amendment and tried it the Supreme Court of the United States, but Donald Trump is a New York liberal who will take away your second amendment rights. This man is lying to you and he is taking advantage of you. And I

would encourage you, sir, look, I appreciate you being out here speaking, if I were Donald Trump I would not have come over to talk to you, and I would not have shown you that respect.

In fact, you know what would I have done? I would the folks over there. Go over and punch those guys in the face. That's what Donald does in the protest.



LEMON: So, Tony, this is the last, he is calling Donald Trump a liar, he says he is deceiving the voters, Indiana voters believe that Donald is deceiving them? Even if they were to somewhere believe that on this subject or that subject, maybe Donald is imperfect, they bought into that larger picture and concept and idea.

And Ted Cruz is getting attacked for this. Man, talk about tough walk over and take the hits and you see a lot of Trump the supporters thrilled to insult, thrilled to try and humiliate, and there is Ted Cruz taking it absolutely positively directly.

This might be too little too late, though. A lot of the dye has cast. I'm not saying that it's definitely going to be a Trump win tomorrow, it is his momentum, it is Trump's race to lose, and you still may have people coming to the polls tomorrow, and they are still not sure.

They are still going to be deciding. They are going to be right there, oh, I could do it for Trump and then realize that they can't. That's very possible here.

LEMON: Hey. Dennis, I will give you a chance to respond. That was his last word, but I will give a chance, quickly if you can. Do you think it's too little too late for him going across and trying to convince the voters like that?

PRAGER: It might be, I don't understand why they just didn't have, and maybe they did. I don't live in Indiana. I live in California, the last and least in terms of primaries, although this year hopefully it may be the least.

But I don't understand why people were not shown over and over a man running for president of the United States mocking John McCain who was tortured for years in the Vietnam War mocking him as a loser. Why they didn't have over and over his speaking about the size of his genitals to a national audience. I mean, he is the anti-president.

LEMON: Why who didn't have over and over that?

PRAGER: Why Cruz or any republican group that doesn't want Trump didn't have ads over and over and over again, and saying nothing, and just saying, is this president? That is all.

(CROSSTALK) [22:14:59] LEMON: Maybe the research shows that it just doesn't work

with his voters.

PRAGER: Well, if it doesn't, OK, then you know what, it's a dark time in America if that doesn't work.

LEMON: All right. Tony, thank you. Tony, thank you. I appreciate it.

KATZ: Good to see you.

LEMON: Thanks. When we come right back, Indiana voters votes in just hours, and is the GOP's never Trump movement about to run out of gas? And who will get their votes?

Plus, Larry Wilmore uses the "n" word in his set at the White House correspondent's dinner and people are still arguing about it tonight, and we will hear from both sides.


LEMON: We are counting down to the Indiana primary just hours away. And here to discuss CNN political commentator, Margaret Hoover who is a republican consultant, Sally Kohn, CNN political commentator and columnist for the Daily Beast who support Bernie Sanders, and Kellyanne Conway, president of Keep the Promise One PAC, a super PAC supporting Ted Cruz, and CNN political commentator, Kayleigh McEnany who is supporting Donald Trump.

Kayleigh, where are you? You should be at the big round table here.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: All the way in Washington, Don. I want to be there with you, Don.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. All right. Well, next time. Well, next time we'll get you here.

MCENANY: Next time.

LEMON: OK. Thanks for joining us. Margaret, I want to start with you. Let's start with the latest poling, all right. This is from the Wall Street Journal/Marist poll. It shows that Trump has 49 percent, Cruz has 34 percent, and Kasich 13 percent. You are not representing any campaign here, you are neutral, who is taking Indiana tomorrow?

[22:20:00] MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I put all my money on Ted Cruz losing Indiana tomorrow and Donald Trump winning. You know, there are some interesting underlying themes, does Kasich end up, you know, pulling anywhere relevant as he end up taking some away from Ted Cruz or did the truce end up working?

But look, it is Donald Trump is going to be running away with it and the question is, you know, is this Ted Cruz's waterloo.

LEMON: yes.

HOOVER: Hoes does Ted Cruz end up handling this and does he begin to think about winding down his effort or potentially pausing it until the convention?

LEMON: That is a great question for Kellyanne. So, let me put this up before you answer that. Because the CNN/ORC poll, right. It says the republican voters are more enthusiastic about Trump compared to Cruz. Trump at 39 percent, Cruz, 21.

It also finds that 52 percent of the republicans says Cruz should drop out since he can't reach the 1237, that magic number, given those numbers, does he call it quits or does he go on to California?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it's a great question. Well, he has to go through Nebraska and some other states like South Dakota, Wyoming -- excuse me, South Dakota, Montana, Washington and Oregon and New Mexico, too.

But it's a great question. It's one just for Ted Cruz. I hope that he continues to be the pro-Cruz movement, and not the stop Trump movement. I think in the last few days or maybe week he has become talking too much about the process and the math and the delegates, and he has a campaign manager and delegate team for that.

He should really if he wants to take the case to Donald Trump, he should fight him on the issues, making ideological battle, fight him on the issues, talk about preparedness to be commander in chief, et cetera.

LEMON: Well, he is taking on supporters. He is taking on Trump supporters as you saw on walk press debate.

CONWAY: Yes, I saw that.

LEMON: And he is talking issues with them?

CONWAY: Yes, indeed. Well, they talk issues with him. They actually want a debate. The others don't want to have a debate anymore, but this is what I'll say about Indiana.

I do lot of work there with Governor Pence is a client, he's endorsed Senator Cruz and it's difficult to poll Indiana, because there are some late in the game deciders. I think what Ted has going for him in Indiana is that he is much more in tuned with the Indiana electorate in terms.

LEMON: Do you think he still has the chance...


CONWAY: But I think what Trump has -- no, no, what I think what trump has is momentum.


CONWAY: And you really can't put a figure on momentum, and there are a lot of people leaning in. I have to say, though, the CNN/ORC numbers shocked me in that, if people actually see that Ted Cruz can't get to 1237 outright, Don, why is it only 52 percent want him to drop out, and why just 47 percent still want him in and why they want this contested convention?

LEMON: Well, here is the question, though. He refuses to get behind Trump, even though every indication shows that Donald Trump is going to be the nominee, let's be honest. I don't know if there is going to be a contested convention or not. So, should he get, if that happens, will he get behind?

CONWAY: But he is being asked that question now in the fog of war or heated battle.

LEMON: Will he get behind them?

CONWAY: Well, I will because I'm not part of the stop Trump, nor on part of the stop Hillary movement.

HOOVER: But Ted is trying to make is that, if you're a candidate and of course I'm not talking to Ted Cruz either because I can't tell him legally about this, but if you are a candidate, you're not in that head space yet.

I mean, you are fighting, fighting, fighting, until, you know, whatever happens happen, let the voters decide, but you are not even -- you are not even able to say, all right, this is the path where I suspend my campaign, because you are so in it to win it.

CONWAY: And that's what makes the question so frustrating I think to be asked that continuously. And by the way, if you are Ted Cruz, you've been asked that...


LEMON: Well, Bernie Sanders is being asked the same question on the other side.

CONWAY: Yes. But I saw CNN -- I saw people on CNN the night before the Iowa caucuses that actually saying, if Ted Cruz doesn't win tomorrow, he's at -- so, we heard it every, you know...


CONWAY: ... and if you punch my black eye again, I don't feel it.

LEMON: All right. As the only democratic in the panel but not yet.

CONWAY: Go Sally.

LEMON: I want to get Kayleigh.

KOHN: I'm good.

LEMON: I want to get Kayleigh in here. There is also this that I want to show, Kayleigh. Forty nine percent of republican say that a Republican Party is divided and will not unite. So, here is my question, will the folks in the never Trump movement eventually get behind Trump? MCENANY: Look, I think maybe you'll have some in the punditry who do

not, but I don't believe that the never Trump movement has ever really been a grassroots effort. I think there are definitely people the tensions are high and people who support other candidates, but as we saw with Clinton and Obama, there was a lot of animosity between the two camps and people came together.

That being said, I do think there is a very narrow class who will remain never Trump, but they are going to fail at that endeavor because one of the things I think most Americans understand and appreciate is they like when people take a stance on behalf of the candidate rather than in spite of the candidate.

And the never Trump movement their entire emo has been negativity and cutting someone down, cutting down the supporters of Donald Trump, that is why the movement has failed to succeed despite spending $80 million in advertising.

So, those voices are going to go away, because the American people have rejected them, they don't like them, and I think it's always been a myth that this was grassroots.

LEMON: Now, Sally, I want to get you in on this. I want you to listen to. This is Ted Cruz, you know, trying to help himself with some Trump supporters today. Listen.


CRUZ: Sir, America is a better country.


CRUZ: Thank you for those kind sentiments. Let me point out that I have treated you respectfully the entire time and the question that everyone here should ask.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you Canadian?

CRUZ: Do you want your kids...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you Canadian?

CRUZ: Do you want your kids repeating the words of Donald Trump?


LEMON: So, are you watching on the other side as an outsider going, oh, are you liking this, it's a painful to watch? What are you thinking?

[22:25:04] KOHN: I mean, again, you know, look, I have had the same line from the beginning of this but I still have, which is, as a democrat, it's hard to not watch these things with glee. You know, that you have two candidates who are competing for the most negative, you know, strongest disapproval ratings. And that the strong majority of the Americans don't like, that violate the American values and everything that we have stood for and everything that has made this country good and can make it better.

As an American, I'm, you know, come on, to see, you know, Americans jeering presidential candidates about where they are from, the kind of tenor and the race to the bottom discourse that we have in this election, it's just it saddens me at a profound level.


LEMON: Yes. But isn't there a sort of a -- is there a never Hillary sort of campaign on the other side?

HOOVER: There sure was in 008.

LEMON: I mean, with the Bernie supporters is kind of a never Hillary.

KOHN: No, there is no way to compare.


KOHN: You know, there is just not. There are democrats and certainly republicans who, you know, for whatever sets of reasons don't like Hillary, and you know, certainly she has...


LEMON: So, Bernie supporters will get behind Hillary.

KOHN: ... you know, unfavorability issues, et cetera.

LEMON: If she is the nominee.

KOHN: Well, there is no question. And I think that's in part because, look, you know, it's a fractured primary, fine, but we are a pragmatic people, we always have been on the democratic side.

MCEANY: But that doesn't make...


LEMON: And wait, wait, before you go...

KOHN: We always held our nose and voted.

LEMON: If it is you support Bernie Sanders and you will vote for Hillary? You'll get on Hillary if that happen.

KOHN: And that's just with Hillary it's almost a carbon copy of 2008.

HOOVER: That is not case in 2008.

KOHN: And that is a carbon copy of Barack Obama politically, and if you like Barack Obama, you are going to like Hillary Clinton. Whereas, Donald Trump is fundamentally antithetical. LEMON: You'll get behind Hillary Clinton if it comes to that.

CONWAY: OK. You just called Hillary Clinton a carbon copy of Barack Obama.

KOHN: Absolutely. Of course, I will.


KOHN: I like that.

HOOVER: Let's not forget the history here, folks. Remember the PUMAS?


HOOVER: And that is Party Unity My Ass, and you can do -- you can figure out what it means and that was 2008, and that was all in it. I really truly believe that if Hillary Clinton herself hadn't gotten in line behind Barack Obama and joined his cabinet, those folks would be a robust group.

CONWAY: They don't have to vote, It's not they are going to cross and remember...


KOHN: And Bernie Sanders is already showing that he can do the same.

HOOVER: Well, Kayleigh's one point. I mean, Kayleigh did say that this is a missed that the grassroots is in. There is a never Trump movement is a grassroots, there is a serious faction in the Republican Party that is really principled -- principally and in a very principled way standing up against Donald Trump...


HOOVER: ... that is not a grass top movement.

LEMON: And the polling shows that. We'll be right back to continue this conversation. Don't go anywhere.


LEMON: Indiana voters are heading to the polls in just a few hours. Back with me now, Margaret Hoover, Sally Kohn and Kellyanne Conway and Kayleigh McEnany. By the way, they were still going at it in the break. So Kayleigh, since you're not here then we'll just let them discuss among themselves and we'll talk. I want you to look at this moment. It's from the campaign we showed yesterday with Carly Fiorina who's introducing Ted Cruz. Watch this.


CARLY FIORINA, TED CRUZ'S RUNNING MATE: The next president of the United States, Ted Cruz.


LEMON: Okay, so Kayleigh, and you guys can play it over again, because I actually missed it. The Cruz camp says Carly didn't fall off the stage. It does appear that she did stumble. She kind of -- she kind of walked off and then disappears and we're like, where did she go, and its okay. Okay, all right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clearly it was a trap door designed to get more attention.


LEMON: And here is what Trump said...


LEMON: Before we respond, here is what Donald Trump said about that moment. Watch this.


TRUMP: Either way, she fell off the stage the other day, did anybody see that? And Cruz didn't do anything. Even I would have helped her, okay.



LEMON: Kayleigh, again seizing on that moment, using it to criticize Ted Cruz.

MCENANY: Hey, it is brilliant, you know, whatever you think of Donald Trump, like the fact that he's able to take little moments like that and put it in his stump speech and make the whole panel laugh, I mean, that's one of his biggest asset. I think he'll use that in the general election. I mean, that was great, and thankfully Carly was okay. She didn't get hurt there so...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At least he did not make fun of the way she eats pancakes. Last week, it was the way (inaudible) eats his pancakes


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about some serious issues like the Russian oppression or the nuclear curtain -- you know, mostly nuclear in North Korea or anything that actually really matters. Plus, to keep it light, sorry, it is just the free world we're talking about.

KOHN: I am sure they didn't say anything substantive in that speech that we would want to discuss...

LEMON: I just thought it was just -- I thought actually it was a brilliant pivot. It wasn't like you know, you guys -- even I would have helped her, like you know, he'd use it against his opponent which I think very smart when it comes to the media. KOHN: I mean, it was hilarious and improvisational and it does, you

know, there's a difference from the rest of it.


LEMON: And she did not get hurt, so don't everybody go crazy. But you're laughing, but she didn't get hurt. She's fine. But Donald Trump also continues to say that Hillary Clinton is playing the woman card and she is now fund-raising off of it. Does that card give Hillary a winning hand you think, because you endorse Bernie Sanders?

KOHN: Well, clearly first of all, that's what happened in that video. That Carly dropped her woman card...

LEMON: Well, she's picking it up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ...and was just bending to pick it up. Let's -- just to be clear on that. Well, look...


LEMON: And you wrote about it, you wrote about it.

KOHN: Yeah, go ahead. You're going to say...

LEMON: Membership has its privilege. Donald Trump's man card pays off. We'll talk about that, but do you see -- is she fund-raising off of it?



LEMON: Is that smart?

KOHN: Yes. It is one of the reasons that people are supporting Hillary Clinton because she is a woman, yes. Just like one of the reasons because she has more experience than any other candidate running from being the Secretary of State, to her senatorial, to her work in nonprofits. There's no question it's a factor, but let's be clear, an equal factor if not greater factor is not only the 44 presidents in history who have run on the male cards, and not to mention every other male candidate who has ever won and lost, but Donald Trump is arguably the most machismo, masculine, hypermasculine and it's always...

LEMON: You said Donald isn't running on a male card, he's running on a white male card?

[22:35:00] KOHN: I mean, come on, could you imagine? Just try to imagine for a second a woman of color -- first of all, try to imagine what my color is saying and believing the kinds of things that Donald Trump believes in -- but even if that would happen, imagine her getting away with the kind of weak tea (ph) substantive answers, foreign policies -- I mean just not knowing basic -- and making it anywhere as near as close in this race. CONWAY: Let's be fair. Hillary Clinton is playing the woman card. She

will receive those votes for her because she is the first woman. You know what America is saying to that, I want a first female president too. I can wait, we have daughters, I can wait for them, but let me just tell you something...

LEMON: But the truth...

CONWAY: They're kind of not hypothetical as Hillary. They're protecting too much...

LEMON: She can be playing the woman card while he is playing the man card...

CONWAY: Right, there's no question. There's no question, but he put her on notice Don. He put her on notice that she is not going to have -- she's not going to see gender to her completely...

KOHN: We're seeing gender, the point is...


CONWAY: She runs around telling the journalists don't call me aggressive, don't call me angry, don't call me tired.

KOHN: For 225 years in this country, we have implicitly voted for political candidates because they're men.


CONWAY: ...when we were allowed to the talk about experience. Now, it's a serious matter.


LEMON: Kayleigh, excuse me. I've got 20 seconds, last word?

MCENANY: Yeah, you know, this is not going to appeal to at all our young millennial women, that pink card you just put up on the screen, millennial women don't walk around wanting a gender card in their purse. In fact, you know, young women feel empowered.

We're making more than our male counterparts and we graduate higher rates. We feel empowered and to play the victim card, not the woman card, but the victim card actually hurts women like me, doing our best to be strong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Millennial's are going to be 28 percent of this electorate, baby boomers are going to be 32 percent of this electorate. More women baby boomers are going to turn out. The millennial women are going to turn out.

MCENANY: You might be surprised.


KOHN: And you can be proud to be a woman isn't being a victim.

LEMON: Thanks everyone. When we come right back, Larry Wilmore -- Marissa (ph) thanks again -- praises President Obama but he uses the n-word to do it, some people are outraged tonight. Who side are you on?


LEMON: Boy, what a firestorm. People are still talking tonight about Larry Wilmore at the White House correspondent's and especially one word at the end of the night, we show host (ph) set, you know what that word is.


LARRY WILMORE, COMEDIAN: You've got seven months left and we should enjoy every moment of it. That is right, soak it in, people. I don't know when we're going to get a black president again, but behind that joke is a humble appreciation for the historical implications for what your presidency means.

When I was a kid, I lived in a country where people couldn't accept a black quarterback, and now to live in your time, Mr. President, when a black man can lead the entire free world, words alone do mean no justice. So, Mr. President, I'm going to keep it a hundred, yo, Barry, you did it my [bleep], you did it. Thank you very much, and good night.


LEMON: All right, so here to discuss, April Reign, editor-at-large of the NU Tribe Magazine and Joe Madison, SiriusXM radio host. You're laughing now Joe but I'm not sure you were laughing then, as a matter of fact I saw you right after and you didn't like this.

JOE MADISON, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: And neither did a whole lot of people in that audience of 3,000 and especially the African-Americans who were there. Look, I think that the president of the United States spokesperson made it clear with April Ryan this afternoon. He appreciated the spirit of what Larry had to say, but think about this, you know,

I've been warned not to say this, but i am going to say it anyway. Can you imagine if the k-word would have been used to describe Bernie Sanders? There were a lot of people of different ethnicities in that audience and I understand the zingers, I've been to many White House correspondents' dinners. I've seen good humor and I've seen poignant humor and satire, but it is time for us to put that word to rest.

And I am telling you it is has never been intended to be endearing, and it is not endearing in 2016, and it is sad that after eight years of this dinner that's the last word that this distinguished group of people will hear in relationship to this president.

LEMON: April Reign, and he's talking about April Ryan who works at the White House, and now April REIGN, you say this is much ado about nothing. Was he just showing love for president Obama?

APRIL REIGN, NU TRIBE MAGAZINE, EDITOR-AT-LARGE: He absolutely was and I'm not so sure why we are concerned about the white gaze, the gaze of those who were in the room. You know, we're talking about the respect that is owed to president Obama, and I absolutely agree that it is owed to him. But so many of them in that room have spent the last eight years disrespecting him, perhaps not by not using that particular word in public, but being disrespectful nonetheless.

What Larry Wilmore did was say what so many African-Americans around this country have wanted to say. He turned that stodgy hotel room into the barbershop that president Obama has not been able to visit in the last eight years and this can be used...

[22:45:00] LEMON: Okay, let me read this in April -- let me read this in, because this is from Jonathan Capehart, right. He did the piece in today's Washington Post and he said why Larry Wilmore is not my n- word, okay. He said, "Sure, there were all blacks who loved -- Sure, there were and are blacks who loved what Wilmore said.

They think that by "keeping it 100," a latter-day "keeping it real," Wilmore expressed the deniable pride African-American have for Obama, the first lady and everything the first family means what it represents, but the White House Correspondent Association dinner was neither Wilmore's barbershop nor his momma's house.

Obama is president of the United States and should have been accorded the respect that comes with the office -- especially by someone who considers himself family." He's saying that this was not a barbershop nor should it be.

REIGN: I've read Jonathan -- I've read Jonathan's --

MADISON: I'm sorry.

REIGN: Sorry, I've read Jonathan's article and I wonder if he was reading my twitter feeds because I specifically mentioned the barbershop yesterday when we were discussing this, but nevertheless, what we do know is that the president appreciated what Larry Wilmore said.

You know, immediately after Larry Wilmore gave him sort of the double chest pound, the president instead of looking shocked and appalled about what had just been said, instead of giving a polite clap to indicate that his hosting duties were over, the president returned that pound to Larry Wilmore in effect saying, thank you for making this statement.

MADISON: Oh, come on.

LEMON: Was he just being diplomatic to him?

MADISON: Yes, oh, please. I bet you that the president of the United States would not want one of his daughters to have the n-bomb dropped on the two of them in a heartbeat. Now, look, I understand that the president always tries to rise above some of this type of controversy and I did say earlier that he did say in a news conference or news briefing that he appreciated the spirit. Now, he didn't say that he appreciated the word. He said he appreciated the spirit, and let me also say...

REIGN: But the president has used the word in an interview in 2015. The president has used the word, and in fact, the word has been used on CNN, right? The word has been used...

MADISON: I'm sick of it. Don't you understand...


LEMON: And it depends on the context...


LEMON: Well, hang on.


LEMON: Hang on, April and Joe. It depends on context. The president wasn't calling someone the word. The president was talking about racism and saying that racism was just not being able to say that word flippantly, and that is what the discussion was about, but it does depend on the context, so go ahead.

MADISON: You know, let me tell you something. It's very interesting we talk millennial's. If I say the k-word do you know that there is an entire generation of people out here don't even know what I'm referring to because Jewish people have understood, put that word down.

We no longer say it. You can't get comedians to say -- let's take for example Drake. Drake is African-American and Jewish, he'll drop that n-bomb in his records a 100 times, but he will not drop that k-word and there's a reason because there are consequences...

REIGN: There is a reason. The reason is because it's apples and oranges.

MADISON: Oh, it is not.


LEMON: Hang on. We're going to continue this -- we're going to continue this...

MADISON: We ought to thank the folks that are making it and that we are to thank them that they have recognized that their children will not ever say that word because it's an insult, it has always been an insult.

LEMON: By and African-Americans are the only one who use the derogatory term as a term of endearment. We're going to continue that conversation. Hispanics don't do it. Jewish people don't it.

MADISON: Absolutely.

LEMON: No other people (ph) but African-Americans. We'll talk about that.

REIGN: Why are we comparing ourselves to anyone else?

LEMON: We'll be right back.

MADISON: Because we're human.


LEMON: All right. We are back talking about Larry Wilmore using the n- word at the White House correspondent's dinner, and joining me is April REIGN and Joe Madison. We're having a robust conversation about the use of that word. I didn't mean to cut you guys off but you know I had to get to a commercial break. It's a part of what I do.

So listen, April, I know that you said, why should we, meaning African-Americans, be concerned about the white gaze, G-A-Z-E, right, what white people think of us. But isn't there a difference in being concerned about that but also just respecting the office of the presidency whether it's a man, woman, black, white or Hispanic?

REIGN: Absolutely, and I think that the office of the president was respected by Larry Wilmore during this time, you know. I think Mr. Madison keeps bringing up the k-word. The k-word has not been reclaimed at all by Jewish people. It is not a word that is used as a term of endearment so, the argument falls flat on its face.

It is not a comparison that can be used. If you go to any barbershop, if you're hanging out with the African-Americans, mainly men, but women as well, you will see this word used as a term of acceptance and acknowledgment. It is not a slur in that sense and everyone gets to choose when and how and if they use it. I think part of the problem is that non-African-Americans are upset that they can't use this word and to see it used so freely by Larry Wilmore in a public space --

LEMON: And most of the people who were upset that I think were African-Americans. Even Bill O'Reilly said that he was not offended.

REIGN: Most?

LEMON: Yes, that I see who were -- who were offended were African- Americans.

REIGN: I mean...

MADISON: Well, wait a minute. Excuse me. White folks don't have any problem using that word. I mean, are you kidding me? What do you mean?...

REIGN: That's what I said.

MADISON: But you said, you know, that they can't use it freely. They use it when they lynch you. They use it when they want to be derogatory, and let me explain to you something historically, the reason I bring up the k-word is because Jewish people said never again. They understood what it did culturally to them, and how the culture led to certain actions. You do not...

REIGN: Agreed. I know my history Mr. Madison. I know my history...

MADISON: I'm not finished. This word -- this word...

REIGN: Well, you are being condescending...

LEMON: We're out of time please -- we're out of time.

REIGN: You're not going to be condescending. I know my history.

LEMON: Let her finish.

REIGN: I appreciate that though.

MADISON: Well, I've been all over thele world and I'm going to tell you something, this word is used globally to be demeaning and everyone in their right mind knows it. You can go anywhere on the planet and this word has become culturally the derogatory. Now, just because we've decided to change it to try to make it a term of endearment, the reality is it's not a term of endearment, and 90 percent of the time...

REIGN: According to you.

MADISON:'s not used that way.

LEMON: Go ahead April.

[22:55:00] REIGN: According to you. That's according to you. I appreciate the history lesson, but I don't need it. I fully realize what the history is of both the k-word and the n-word and that is why I'm saying that if African-Americans choose to reclaim that word, that is their right. Everyone has their opinion on this issue and that is absolutely fine, but you cannot speak on behalf of all African- Americans and say that the word should be killed.

MADISON: I am not speaking on behalf of all African-Americans.

REIGN: You did. You said you wanted to get rid of the word.

MADISON: Of course, what part of I that it says we. I said I want to get rid of it. You're absolutely right, I want to get rid of it. I want to get rid of anything that is used derogatorily towards us 90 percent of the time. That is exactly want I want to do.

REIGN: And that's why white people are not allowed to use the word. Right, and that's exactly why white people should not use the word. But at the same time when black people use this...

MADISON: But it's okay if we are derogatory towards ourselves. Oh, please. REIGN: Well you said -- you are saying that it's derogatory. I am not

saying that. I am saying that it can be seen as a word of affection and respect so, because you see it is derogatory...0

LEMON: Okay, last word, I got to...

MADISON: Well, you know, I'll go to my grave saying it is derogatory and you know what, I hope my children and grandchildren learn that it is derogatory, and that it dies with us now in 2016. Wish it is dead.

LEMON: Great conversations. Thank you April and thank you Joe.

MADISON: Thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.


[23:00:00] LEMON: Stay with CNN for all day coverage tomorrow of the primary that may re-shape the race, and that's Indiana. I'll see you right back here at a special time tomorrow night. Big night -- big night with all the latest results in the Hoosier's state.

That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching.

AC360, the special "We Got Him: Obama, Bin Laden and the Future of the War on Terror" starts right now.