Return to Transcripts main page


RNC: Trump Presumptive GOP Nominee; Trump & Sanders Win Indiana, Cruz Drops Out; RNC Calls For United Support For Trump; Wildfire Forces Evacuation Of Canadian City; Filipino Militants Release New Hostage Video; Pentagon Reports U.S. Service Member Killed By ISIS Fighters; Olympic Torch Begins Journey Through Brazil. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired May 4, 2016 - 01:00   ET


[01:00:35] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. It is 1:00 a.m. on the East Coast. This is a special CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Our breaking news, a huge victory for Donald Trump, the end of the road for Ted Cruz and a shot in the arm for Bernie Sanders.

Donald Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee in the wake of his Indiana win forcing Ted Cruz to drop out of the race, and meanwhile CNN projects Bernie Sanders beats Hillary Clinton. But will his victory dent her campaign? And what comes next in a race that is full of surprises?

My political dream team is here. Nomiki Konst, hello to you.


LEMON: Who is a supporter of Bernie Sanders. Patti Solis-Doyle, former campaign manager for Hillary Clinton, CNN political commentator Mr. Ryan Lizza. Also CNN political commentators Ana Navarro, Buck Sexton -- Buck who supports Ted Cruz. Do you still Ted Cruz?



SEXTON: We need to take that out --

LEMON: Take that out of the prompter.

SEXTON: It's out. I'm out for Ted for now. Just want to make that clear.

KONST: You said you were feeling the Bern during the break.

SEXTON: Let's not talk about that.

LEMON: Kayleigh McEnany is here and Kayleigh supports Donald Trump. You still support Donald Trump, right?


LEMON: All right. So we will get to my dream team in just a bit but I want to give it to Jim Acosta.

Jim, Indiana was a huge win for Donald Trump tonight. Was anyone in the campaign expecting Ted Cruz to drop out?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Don, Donald Trump and his entire family were completely caught off guard by Ted Cruz's announcement that he was dropping out of the GOP race. Trump trounced Cruz in the Indiana primary, a contest that the Texas senator had basically described as a must-win. Trump's son Donald Junior told CNN that his father and the entire family were shocked as they watched Cruz's announcement. And Trump sounded very gracious as he praised Cruz for getting out of the race. A big contrast from what he was saying about Cruz earlier in the day.

Here's what he had to say.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz, I don't know if he likes me or doesn't like me, but he is one hell of a competitor. He is a tough, smart guy. And he has got an amazing future. He's got an amazing future. So I want to congratulate Ted.


ACOSTA: Trump also made the pivot to the general election campaign saying he was ready to take on Hillary Clinton and even reached out to African-American and Hispanic voters in his remarks. But Trump still plans to keep on campaigning saying he will continue on with stops that are planned for later on this week in West Virginia and Nebraska -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

Now I want to bring in CNN's Sunlen Serfaty. Sunlen, Ted Cruz put it all on the line but came up short. This had to be a tough night for him.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A very tough night for him, Don, and a top aide to Senator Cruz describes this as a very personal decision that Cruz made on election night, determining that he had no viable path forward. It was very notable that Senator Cruz at his concession speech did not make any mention whatsoever of Donald Trump and that will be the big question going forward that really hangs over Senator Cruz. Will he put his support behind Donald Trump?

I asked him this as he left with his family, going home to Houston, and he would not take the question. Aides to Senator Cruz say that this is something that they believe in due time he will make his views and feelings known on but at this point I think it's an understatement to say that the wounds of the primary campaign are still very raw for him.

Aides say they believe that Donald Trump crossed the line in going not only after Heidi Cruz but just recently after Ted Cruz's father, Rafael Cruz. That was something that they say struck a chord with Senator Cruz. So again this will be -- this is the question that has haunted his campaign in the final waning months and days. He told me just in March that he is not in the habit of supporting anyone who attacks his family so that will be the question going forward -- Don.

LEMON: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Now I want to bring in CNN's politics executive editor, Mr. Mark Preston.

Good morning, Mark.

The road is now littered with people who have underestimated Donald Trump and now he is the presumptive nominee. What stood out most for you tonight?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Look, that speech -- well, two speeches. One, Ted Cruz coming out and in saying that he was getting out of the race and everyone that was watching me all day on Tuesday where I said there is no way Ted Cruz is going to get out of the race, you can throw away those tapes because I was wrong, but I think everybody else was wrong, as well, Don. I mean, the fact is --

[01:05:06] LEMON: Do you hear that? Do you hear that, Mark? Look around. Everyone is laughing.


PRESTON: No, I can't see them.

LEMON: All right. Well, I will tell you. All of them sitting up here right now, they all did the same thing.

PRESTON: Your little club you got going on up there.

LEMON: Go ahead, Mark.

PRESTON: Listen. We were all very surprised.


PRESTON: We were all very surprised that Ted Cruz decided to get out but hindsight being what it is, what he had what now appears to be a breaking point moment in the campaign earlier in the day where he just went after Donald Trump personally and called him every name he possibly could in the book, perhaps we should have used that as a warning sign that the campaign had really gotten to Ted Cruz and probably had really gotten, you know, to his family.

In addition to that, though, you've got to look at Donald Trump walking out tonight. Donald Trump giving a very conciliatory speech. Donald Trump not using one slur at all against any of his former rivals, and actually said some very kind things about Ted Cruz.

This is the Donald Trump that I think Democrats have got to be worried about because if Donald Trump continues to deliver a populist message but doesn't do it with, you know, using razors and sharp knives, that I think that could be problematic for Democrats going into November.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You see, this is the thing, though. The bar for Donald Trump is so much different than everybody else. Mark Preston just said he gave a really conciliatory speech because he didn't use one slur.


NAVARRO: He said some really nice things about Ted Cruz. He said he's a hell of a competitor and has a -- you know, a future about him. I mean, you know --

LEMON: He said Heidi Cruz -- I mean, he said some nice things --

NAVARRO: He said Heidi Cruz --


LEMON: The question is -- seriously.

LIZZA: Calling his wife ugly and his dad a murderer.

LEMON: Right. But, Mark --


PRESTON: But that was earlier in the day. Right. That was earlier in the day.

LEMON: That was then. This is now. And he has defeated 16 rivals.


LEMON: I mean, he seems like he's a steam roller now.

NAVARRO: But, please, John Kasich is still alive.

KONST: Divide and conquer.

LEMON: Really.

NAVARRO: Give the man a little dignity.

LEMON: With that said, they said you're grading him on a curve. He still has some very high negatives, Mark, among women, among minorities, among all voters. So how does this play out in the general?

PRESTON: Well, a couple of things. One, I mean, not only the presidential race but let me just take that off track for one second. Let's look down ballot races. We already saw House Democrats come out immediately. Once the RNC came out and said that he was the presumptive nominee, House Democrats came out and said that everybody that is running -- every Republican that's running for the House now has a running mate and that running mate's name is Donald Trump. But what they're trying to do is to try to tie candidates to Donald

Trump in that inflammatory language and in many way offensive words and slurs that he has used but going forward, Donald Trump has a lot of fences to mend and he's also really going to learn to put down his Twitter account, his iPhone or whatever he has, and he really needs to draw himself back in. He's been marked --

LEMON: Do you think that will ever happen? Do you think he can do that?

PRESTON: You know what? I also -- ugh. I don't know. You know --


LEMON: Good answer.

PRESTON: I think that --

LEMON: I also ugh. I don't know. That's a good quote. I can't wait to see that tomorrow.

NAVARRO: It will happen someday. Here is the beautiful thing about Donald Trump is that he drunk tweets without drinking. Yes.


LEMON: Go ahead, Mark.

PRESTON: I don't know. I mean, look it. I mean, the bottom line is if he does, then he becomes more formidable than if he doesn't and really some of the things he has said about women is really stupid and quite frankly probably the worst card that Donald Trump has played in the last seven days is to say that Hillary Clinton is using the woman card.

LEMON: The woman card.

PRESTON: Which by the way, nobody finds offensive. I don't find it offensive, I think that anybody who doesn't think women deserve equal pay and what have you, you know, it was actually not a good play on Donald Trump's part.

LEMON: Yes. So then what's the take away? Let's talk about the Democrats. The take away for the Democrats here. What is it?

PRESTON: Right. Bernie Sanders. I'll tell you what, we heard this on our air tonight, but as Ted Cruz was getting out of the race, I immediately got a text from one of Bernie Sanders' top advisers that said, who is having a contested convention now? Meaning like we are not stopping and we are going --

LEMON: You should see Nomiki here. She's applauding.

PRESTON: We're going on to Philadelphia.

KONST: We're going to Philadelphia. PRESTON: Look, I think Hillary Clinton has really -- in her campaign

really has got to do more to reach out to Bernie Sanders and it might kill them to do that because, you know, this has been a campaign that hasn't had the glare and really the bright lights of the Republican side but it really has been just as divisive and if Hillary Clinton who we assume is going to be the nominee wants to move beyond Bernie Sanders, she better like --

LEMON: But how does she do it, Mark? How does she reach out to those Bernie Sanders voters?

PRESTON: She should -- I mean, honestly, I mean, one is that she should probably try to have a private meeting with Bernie Sanders. I mean, her staff should be reaching out right now.

LEMON: But why would she do that when he says listen, I'm going to go to the convention and -- because he still believes that he has a shot and he has something to prove. You heard him tonight.

[01:10:06] PRESTON: Right. Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer.

LEMON: Right.

PRESTON: I mean, the bottom line is he's talking about trying to flip several hundred super delegates to go his way. I mean, that's an impossibility. It doesn't mean that Bernie Sanders doesn't deserve, you know, to take this fight to Philadelphia and force everyone to cast their vote but it doesn't mean he's going to win. So if she can --

KONST: But, Mark, it's not about Bernie Sanders. It's about the movement.

LEMON: Correct.

KONST: It's about more than half the party under the age of 50. What happens to those people when Hillary Clinton becomes the nominee?

PRESTON: The day they vote for Hillary Clinton.



LEMON: I told you, look, nobody wants to deal with math but anyways here we go.

NAVARRO: But I'll tell you this. And Mark will remember this. When you were, you know, at the early start of this, when you went to things and talked to folks who went to Bernie Sanders rallies in Iowa and New Hampshire, and you would ask them who their second choice was, it was Donald Trump.

KONST: Some of them, not all of them.

NAVARRO: It wasn't Hillary Clinton. Well, enough of them so that it should worry a --

KONST: For sure.

NAVARRO: Well, but it's enough so that it should worry a Hillary Clinton.

KONST: It should and it will come down to the blue-collar voters. And that's something that Hillary Clinton will -- she's trying to get them out of the race because she wants --

NAVARRO: It's going to come down to a lot more than that. It's going to come down to --

KONST: That's a big chunk of it, when you look at the map, it was the Midwest region. If she doesn't get that Midwest region, there is a reason why she wants him out of the race now rather than in June.


SEXTON: The outsiders, though -- I mean, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both outsiders even though Bernie Sanders is inside the political process as a senator and people that are sick of the political --


SEXTON: That people who are sick of the system it makes sense that they'd go from Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump.

LEMON: We can discuss this in that later blocks but I want to give Mark the final word here. What do you make of what's been said, Mark?

PRESTON: I would say to that is --

NAVARRO: Go ahead mark, it's 1:11 in the morning. Be coherent.

PRESTON: Let me bring it on. So here's the deal. I mean, it's very simple right now. And there's been a lot of talk that Bernie Sanders supporters will go and they will support Donald Trump, OK? Both gentlemen are preaching populism. Both gentlemen are preaching different flavors of populism, and I would have -- find it hard to believe that liberal, ultra liberal Democrats are going to go support Donald Trump. I think it's that simple.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, Mark Preston. We'll continue the conversation with the rest of the panel after this break. But thank you, Mark. Appreciate it.

Donald Trump sits down, by the way, with Wolf Blitzer at Trump Tower Wednesday and you can see the entire interview on "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, of course right here on CNN. A lot more to come with my political dream team. They're going to weigh in on all the big events of tonight.



[01:16:28] LEMON: And we're back. Indiana turning out to be the game changer in the GOP race. Donald Trump wins the Republican primary and is now the presumptive GOP nominee. Ted Cruz drops out. In the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders beats Hillary Clinton.

So back with me now, my political dream team, Nomiki Konst, Patty Solice Doyle, Ryan Lizza, Ana Navarro, Buck Sexton and Kayleigh McEnany.

OK. Let's listen to Bernie Sanders speaking this evening.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We feel great about the night not only in winning here in Indiana and accumulating some delegates but also gaining the momentum we need to take us to the finish line.

I have no doubt, zero doubt, that what we have done in the campaign, what we are doing now and what we will do in the next six weeks is good for the Democratic Party and it will result in a higher voter turnout.


LEMON: Higher voter turnout, good for the Democratic Party. He did say finish line in the beginning of that. Did that mean win or just the end?

LIZZA: I think it just means the end to get to California June 7th. I mean, Nomiki might not like this but he is basically a zombie candidate, right?

KONST: That is so untrue.

LIZZA: Hillary Clinton cannot kill him, but she can -- he can do a lot of damage to her through June 7th. Mathematically he can't --


KONST: More than South Dakota, Kentucky, West Virginia, all these states where he's winning right now and then California where they are tieing, if they split 475 --

LIZZA: But don't you think -- don't you think tonight the big news of Donald Trump being the nominee of the party, Democrats sort of on the one hand saying, OK, we can beat. It's going to be a 10-point victory but on the other hand saying but he's so unpredictable, you never know, and what a danger he would be in the White House. Democrats are scared of the possibility.


NAVARRO: You're saying that Bernie Sanders can do a lot of harm between now and June 7th. LIZZA: No, my question is --

NAVARRO: I actually think he can do her a lot of help.

SEXTON: I think so, too.

NAVARRO: He's done her a lot of help already.


PATTI SOLIS-BOYCE, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: I agree with that. He has made her a better candidate.

LIZZA: It's reached a point of diminishing returns --

SEXTON: Voice to the left, he makes her seem more centrist --


LIZZA: My question, don't you think that the Democratic Party is going to be pushing him out of the race?

NAVARRO: Your question is how has he made her --

KONST: You don't think they have been doing that since August? Of course they've been doing that.

LIZZA: And don't you think Democratic voters will be saying, wait a second, Bernie, enough is enough, Donald Trump is now the nominee, we got to get to the general election?

KONST: Establishment.

SOLIS-BOYLE: Hillary Clinton stated until the very end in 2008, the question is his tone. Is he going to go after her personal attacks? Go after the golden stance --


NAVARRO: The things that have been going on in the Democratic side are not personal attacks. It's rock, paper scissors.


LEMON: So how does he help her?

NAVARRO: He's going to be facing a guy who is going to attack frontally and --

SOLIS-BOYLE: Which is why I think Bernie Sanders has made her a better candidate.

NAVARRO: She has been a terrible candidate. I think she has become a better candidate, it's because of having to face a Bernie Sanders. Look, let's face it. You know, this is not a historical figure like Barack Obama with extraordinary political and oratorical skills who made a big splash into the national scene with a beautiful convention speech years before running.

LEMON: This is her resume.

NAVARRO: This is a 74-year-old cranky, you know, senator whose got basically no colleague supporting him in the Senate who had no name ID, who come from a tiny little state full of nothing but white people and, and he's still giving her --

LIZZA: Not that there's anything wrong with being a white person.


NAVARRO: -- a run for her money at this stage of the game. So if that doesn't tell you that she is a vulnerable candidate with enormous weaknesses, I don't know what does.


MCENANY: He has a simple inspiring message, the same way Barack Obama does or did, I should say. It was hope and change. With Bernie Sanders it's equalizing the playing field. With Donald Trump, it's make America great again. And you know, I ask you, maybe, Patti, you can answer. What is Hillary Clinton's central, simple, exciting theme? I think that's her fault.


Business as usual.

I'm not saying Bernie Sanders has not run a fantastic campaign. He has. He's brought huge crowds, raised a lot of money through small donations --

Let's go back to the point. Brought a lot of people to the Democratic Party. Hillary Clinton -- OK. Let's talk about that.

She has gotten more --

She is not --

He's not going to win.

She's going to win --

Because he's not going to win super delegates which are un-Democratic. We can get rid of.

He's like John Kasich. The rules are the rules and on the Democratic side --

We have new voters, people that left the party and young people who overwhelmingly 80 percent of those under 40 of all demographics side with this move. Not about Bernie Sanders but the party and future and campaigns are judged by the future.

That is -- You may have a point that the process needs to be changed. You may

have a point. That's for the Democratic Party to decide but not in the middle of a current nomination.

That's what you say about Bernie Sanders. Here is how Elizabeth Warren sees it. She said Donald Trump is now -- she posted this on Facebook. "Donald Trump is now the leader of the Republican Party. It's real, he's one step away from the White House. Here is what else is real. Trump built his campaign on racism, sexism and xenophobia. What happens next will test the character for all of us, Republican, Democrat and independent and will determine whether we move forward as one nation or splinter at the hands of one man's narcissism and divisiveness, however you want to say it. I know which side I'm on. I'll fight my heart out to make sure Donald Trump's toxic stew of hatred and insecurity never reaches the White House."

Is that a mic drop?


What do you think of that?

First time I've seen that statement. Is that the whole thing?


She has not endorsed a Democratic candidate for president. So if Elizabeth warren really believes Donald Trump is that much of a danger, she might want to tell the American people which Democrat she wants to go against him --

Why would she do that right now? That would cheapen her brand.

She's trying to sum him up like the media as racist, anti woman, every week something new. I looked forward to it. What's the media going to call Donald Trump this week? That's what she's doing. It's reduction logic and takes away the saying let's put a temporarily halt to the organization and kill a bunch of people. There are knew --

Do you believe what she wrote? People already think that. People who are persuadable and open to listening to what either candidate has to say, I'm assuming Hillary Clinton no offense, they don't care that Elizabeth warren who is on the far left is running these things about Donald Trump. That honestly has propelled Donald Trump from immigration and jobs and trade.

Something to keep in mind --

You see Elizabeth warren try to insert herself in a campaign where she has not played a role whatsoever.

She pushed Hillary on a lot of issues.

Did she push her? We'll talk about that and micki, you'll get to get in, as well.

Thank you.


[01:27:24] LEMON: Donald Trump wins the Indiana Republican primary, Ted Cruz ends his campaign and in the Democratic race, Bernie Sanders wins Indiana, dealing a blow really to the frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

I want to bring in now CNN Politics reporters MJ Lee and Tal Kopan.

Good morning to both of you. Earlier, late, however you want to see it.

Tal, to you first You've been live blogging the results all night. Let's look at some of the exit polls. OK. 73 percent of Republicans say they voted in support of their candidate rather than against his opponent. You say that this was key to Trump's win. Why is that?

TAL KOPAN, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Absolutely. So this is the first primary we've actually had since Ted Cruz has been officially mathematically eliminated from contention. He was right on the verge of it last week, but he hadn't officially been done and it really proves that it's hard for voters to really get behind a candidate whose only message is vote for me to try to stop the other guy, like Ted Cruz was saying he couldn't actually win outright, he was asking for people to support him so he could get enough delegates to force a contested convention where maybe then he could take the nomination.

And this statistic is actually very similar to what we saw in the states that voted last week. About three quarters of the electorate said we don't want to vote against someone. We want to vote for someone and Ted Cruz really failed to capitalize on what had brought him to where he was in these past few weeks.

LEMON: MJ, unless something really crazy happens, Donald Trump is now the presumptive Republican nominee of the party. Reince Priebus has been saying that. You have been out on the trail with his campaign. What's the strategy for the general election? Do you know?

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I mean, I think the big question for Donald Trump starting immediately is how quickly he can transition from a primary candidate to a general election candidate and, you know, let's keep in mind, Trump is about to achieve something pretty remarkable. He is about to become the Republican presidential nominee without the establishment's backing, without having gotten help from major donors, without support from major party leaders.

But I think in doing so, he clearly has isolated some segments of the Republican base whether it's African-Americans or Hispanics or women. All three groups, by the way, are groups that Trump made a point of mentioning in his victory speech tonight and I think a big hurdle and a challenge for him going forward will be making sure that he is bringing in those people that he may have offended in some of the rhetoric that he's used on the campaign trail and I think he and his campaign are both aware that they cannot win the general election and defeat someone like Hillary Clinton unless he is able to successfully bring in those kinds of voters.

[01:30:02] LEMON: And to that point, Tal, there are a lot of people who have said #NeverTrump, so what do you think all those anti-Trump -- where will all that anger go?

KOPAN: That's a really important question for Donald Trump and for the Republican Party. We've been talking for weeks now the sort of side stages of grief for the five stages of Trump and watching Twitter tonight was like watching it actually play out in real time.

And you saw almost about half of the people who have said #NeverTrump -- I will never get behind this candidate. Some of them, actually, sort of came around and said well, even more so never Hillary Clinton, so I will support Donald Trump.

But there were still some who said #NeverTrump means #NeverTrump. And certainly the PACs who are out there still fundraising to try to stop him or damage him in some way -- they all put out statements tonight saying we're still in this, we still need your support, we still don't want this person to be our party's standard-bearer.

So how that split actually happens is going to be quite interesting to watch. And actually, earlier today, we saw a former top adviser to John McCain tweet "I'm with her" and say that if it's Trump or Hillary, he's going to go with Hillary.

Meanwhile, Bobby Jindal, who really had some of the harshest words for Donald Trump in this campaign -- he said he would pick Trump if it's Trump versus Hillary. So we're seeing both sides.

LEMON: It's interesting. I want to pick up on something that M.J. said to you and --


LEMON: I knew you were going to say that. Now I'm going -- as a matter of fact, I'm going to you --

NAVARRO: Bobby who?

LEMON: -- because I want to ask you, during his speech tonight, his victory speech, Donald Trump did mention -- he mentioned -- he said, you know, the African-Americans want jobs. He said the Hispanics -- they want jobs. Everybody wants jobs. He mentioned every minority group who people have said that he has offended. Can he win members of those groups over? Is that realistic?

NAVARRO: Look, I've been wrong all along about Trump, so let me continue making predictions here. I think the bridges with the Hispanic community are burnt beyond repair. I will be shocked if he's able to get more of the Hispanics than Mitt Romney got, which was a very low number to begin with, 27 percent. I think Donald Trump gets less than that.

Now, I will also tell you I think he can get other voters that are not Hispanics. I think he can bring in and attract voters from --


NAVARRO: -- other spots and other pockets that may not be Hispanic.

MCENANY: I think that --

NAVARRO: I think you have to identify those pockets because with the Hispanics, I think the bridges are burnt.

MCENANY: First of all, I don't think that you can look at these groups as homogenous within themselves. So when you look at Hispanics it's unfair, I think, to say Hispanics will never go Trump. They will all do X, Y, or Z because I think the Hispanic community --

LEMON: Well, you're speaking in generality.

MCENANY: -- is very diverse. In fact, I think there are many Hispanics who very much appreciate his rhetoric about sealing the borders. You go to the borders and you see Hispanics who are scared of the drug cartels who are coming across.


MCENANY: Likewise, the African-American community is the one community that has been badly hurt by the Obama administration. They still --


NAVARRO: Here's what I think about the Hispanics since we're talking about this, and I think Patti and I are Hispanics here.


NAVARRO: Yesterday, the Miami Herald actually came out with polls from Cuban-American communities, Cuban-American Republicans. Donald Trump is underwater with Cuban-Americans in Florida. If a Republican nominee is losing Cuban-Americans, brother, you are in trouble.

DOYLE: And he's also been the impetus for people -- Hispanics registering to vote. Also also for people becoming naturalized citizens so that they can vote against him. I mean, he --



MCENANY: One of the facts that we do have is that Donald Trump is going to end this nomination with the most votes behind him of any Republican nominee in history. Republican turnout is up 60 percent, Democrat turnout is down 20 percent. He has driven people to the polls on his behalf and that's going to continue.



BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK, Donald Trump's not going to win a large portion of the Hispanic vote. OK, he's not. That's not going to happen. I think that's just there.

LEMON: It would be crazy.

SEXTON: No, but to the point about who he can win, he can win blue- collar, Industrial Belt, Rustbelt Democrats in much larger numbers than the previous Republican candidates out there, and that's where he can make up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He can win millennials.

SEXTON: He's not going to make it up by winning a large portion of the Hispanic vote. I think we can all probably assume this.


LEMON: All right, M.J. do you agree? Is that what you're seeing out on the trail?

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: I think to the point he just made about winning over blue-collar Democrats in the Rustbelt, yes. I mean, I spent a week traveling in the Rustbelt to precisely try to get this answer and the number of Democrats that I came across -- you know, folks who had supported President Obama, both in 2008 and 2012.

People who have only voted for Democrats in the past. Voters who have never really voted in the past coming out to say that they may support Donald Trump this year because his message so resonates with them. Yes, this is definitely a phenomenon that we're seeing. My point is just that he probably needs to broaden beyond that base in order to be competitive against Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: M.J., Tal, thank you very much. When we come right back this is an election where all bets are off. So, as the race tightens, what comes next? Who knows in this election.


[01:35:03] LEMON: Donald Trump is the Republican's presumptive nominee. You need to talk during the break. When will the Democrats wrap things up? Mark Preston is back with me to discuss this and I've got this feisty panel, Mark, so just be ready for anything.

Mark, the Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta, released a statement tonight about Trump and here's what he said.

"Fundamentally, our next president will need to do two things: keep our national safe in a dangerous world and help working families get ahead here at home. Donald Trump is not prepared to do either. Throughout his campaign, Donald Trump has demonstrated that he's too divisive and lacks the temperament to lead our nation and the free world. With so much at stake, Donald Trump is simply too big of a risk." A sign of things to come, Mark Preston?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Yes. Well, I mean, listen, that is probably the kindest thing we're going to hear from the Clinton campaign going forward, at this point. What I think you're going to see happen, Don, and I'm sure the panelists will all agree and if they don't they're wrong, but the bottom line is it's going to be an incredible amount of money from outside groups that are going to be coming into this race.

You're going to see a lot of Democratic groups that are going to try to frame Donald Trump early on and try to knock him out. That seems to be the best political play is to try to put a caricature around your opponent as early as you can and make sure that they don't have any chance of winning, or even getting close, in November.

And then, the whole idea is will Donald Trump have that support, as well? And again, I think we're early enough in the election cycle right now where Donald Trump could perhaps rally enough support around where there are Republicans who are willing to open up their wallets who do not want to see Hillary Clinton become president.

LEMON: So, here's what Reince Priebus, head of the GOP -- head of the Republican Party tweeted. He said, "@realDonald Trump will be presumptive @GOP nominee, we all need to unite and focus on defeating @HillaryClinton #NeverClinton."

[01:40:00] So, how quickly, Ryan Lizza, do you think the Democrats are going to wrap this up so they can unite and focus on one candidate?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: How quickly those Democrats would do?


LIZZA: Well, I was saying before I think there's going to be a lot of pressure now on Bernie Sanders to stop torturing Hillary Clinton and to stand down.

LEMON: Torturing?

LIZZA: I mean, as someone pointed out before, he has made her a better candidate and I think that's true. And I think that she's going to run against a populous, like Donald Trump, who is probably a useful thing for her to have run against a left populous in the primary, but that reaches a point of diminishing returns.

LEMON: Mark, same question to you.

PRESTON: Yes. I mean, look, I think -- I don't think it's over. I mean, I just don't. I think that Bernie Sanders has nothing to lose at right now. I mean, given his age, given the fact that he's not going to run for president again, and the fact that he's driven by ideology and not party loyalty, I think that puts him in a different category than what we've seen other past presidential races where candidates would get out because they thought they would have another shot at running for the White House, or perhaps there would be a place in the Cabinet.

I don't think Bernie Sanders wants a place in the Clinton cabinet. I think he's very happy to go back to the Senate and try to continue pushing forward on this liberal movement that he's been able to harness and this energy he's been able to harness --

LEMON: Patti --

PRESTON: -- to push through these policies.

DOYLE: You know, Hillary gave an interview today -- or rather, yesterday, since it's 1:40 in the morning, basically saying, you know, Indiana's over and I'm moving towards the general election. I think she's moved on.

I think she is focusing on a general. She's focusing on getting the battleground states organized. She's focusing on forming a narrative against Donald Trump, and that's the right thing to do. It would be malpractice not to.


NAVARRO: She -- Hillary wants to move on. The problem she has is that Bernie keeps winning states and that makes this thing continue going on. And, you know what I said?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he's got tens of millions of dollars in the bank.

NAVARRO: I said earlier about when a campaign starts looking like a deflating helium balloon. Bernie Sanders campaign was looking like that earlier in the week. He had massive layoffs in the campaign. He's had some tough losses and yet, he's still getting tens of thousands of people at his rallies and he's still winning important states. So, you know, you --


NAVARRO: He's the energizer bunny. He just keeps going and going and going.

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: He keeps going and going because he's fueled by movement. He's fueled by over half the party, many of which has been disaffected, disenfranchised from this process. You can't sit there and say that the woman who is winning right now is winning in close primaries with basically two demographics, women over the age of 50 and African-Americans over the age of 50.

DOYLE: She has 3 million more --

KONST: But aside -- and not including caucus votes and that's because of closed primaries. But once you open it up and take it to a general election and you look at that map, he's killed it compared to Donald Trump. He wins all the swing states. He gets all the blue-collar vote. He

gets all -- and she's going to have the base if he is the nominee. And we have all been wrong here about Donald Trump, and I think we are all wrong if we think that Hillary --

NAVARRO: You're not going to love it. I told you that --

KONST: If we think -- if we think that Hillary is going to get to that magical number based on the margins of wins she's had, and we're not going to. There's going to a fight on that convention floor. It's going to be a fight over superdelegates, the process, the future of the party, because this isn't about Bernie Sanders. It's about the people that --


LEMON: Mark Preston? Let Mark Preston weigh in. What do you think of what Nomiki said?

PRESTON: Well, a couple of things. One is I think everyone's right in a certain respect, although while Hillary Clinton is publicly talking about focusing on the general election, and I do believe the campaign is really moving this cruise ship that's been going so quickly in trying to move it in a different direction.

She is spending upwards to $50,000 in the Territory of Guam over the next couple of days to try to win seven delegates. So, while we're seeing this general election campaign ramp up there still is this primary campaign and she is putting money, if you could ever imagine, into the Territory of Guam to win seven delegate, that just goes to show you how concerned they are.

LEMON: Not that there's anything wrong with that.

PRESTON: -- how concerned they are.


KONST: Donald Trump is a great fundraising tool for Democrats and a great fundraising tool for Hillary. So you don't think that him being the nominee has been helping her?

NAVARRO: Mark, Mark, we interrupted you at Guam.

PRESTON: I just think -- I know, and you're killing, you all, but here's the bottom line. The bottom is that each delegate is very important in how much she's able to beat Bernie Sanders by in pledged delegates is extremely important. And, yes, there is going to be a battle in Philadelphia over the direction of the party.

But the bottom line, if you are a Democrat you are probably in a better spot than if you are a Republican becauseI think the Democrats have a better shot of coming together and uniting than the Republicans.

LEMON: All right. MCENANY: Can I just quickly say one thing to Mark. OK, Mark, you have been saying for the last three Tuesdays that this will be the most important Tuesday ever and I just have to give you credit --

PRESTON: I was right.

MCENANY: -- because you were right. This was the most important Tuesday ever, so --

PRESTON: You're my favorite up there.

LEMON: Mark, if you can see the monitor, let me send you this (PAT ON THE BACK).

PRESTON: There you go.

LEMON: A pat on the back there, buddy.

NAVARRO: That's all he needs is more karma (ph) and reaffirmation.

LEMON: All right, expect the unexpected. Thank you, Mark, appreciate it. We'll be right back. That's what you can do in this race. Expect the unexpected. We'll talk about that when we come back.



[01:42:00] GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR: From CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, I'm George Howell. This "CNN NEWS NOW". A large wildfire is burning in northern Alberta in Canada and it is forcing at least 60,000 people to leave their homes.

Officials ordered everyone in Fort McMurray to get out the way, including more than 100 patients at a local hospital there. Many homes and businesses have been burned down by that fire.

In the Philippines, Abu Sayyaf militants have released a new video that shows two Westerners and a Filipino woman that the group is holding hostage. They are threatening to kill the hostages unless the Canadian and Philippine governments meet their demands. The group murdered Canadian John Ridsdel last month, who was abducted along with the others.

A U.S. Navy Seal was killed in Iraq when roughly 100 ISIS fighters staged what Pentagon officials call a "coordinated and complex attack."


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Initial reports are that this service member died when ISIL terrorists penetrated a checkpoint that was manned by Iraqi forces. Those terrorists, after breaking through the line, went on to attack a Peshmerga position where this U.S. service member was advising our partners on the ground.


HOWELL: (Video Playing) This amateur video reportedly shows the U.S. airstrikes the White House press secretary was talking about.

In Brazil, President Dilma Rousseff lights a torch in Brasilia. The torch is now on a three-month relay through Brazil before the start of the OlympicGames in Rio, in August.

Those are your world headlines. I'm George Howell. Now, back to our special coverage of the Indiana primary results here on CNN.

[01:44:00] LEMON: Back now with my political dream team. So, we have been saying what will a debate look like between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump? You are the debate master, Mark Preston. What is that debate going to look like? So, let's see, put your Donald Trump mask on. You never know what he's going to -- you never know where he's going to come from.

PRESTON: I think we're going to be surprised. Honestly, I think that we're going to see a knife fight that will start tomorrow between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, and I think it's going to get very nasty. I think when they get on stage in front of viewers, who might forget every four years, we will see three debates between the nominees, and we will see one debate with their vice presidential nominee.

And I think that Donald Trump is going to be a lot more prepared than we've seen him up to this point. I think that he'll actually know specifics. I can't believe I'm saying that, but he'll actually know specifics on foreign policy. (LAUGHTER)

And look, he's not a stupid person. A lot of people, you know, have really sold him short of not being smart, so to speak. But clearly, he is a smart guy and I think we will --


[01:50:00] SEXTON: There is a huge charisma gap which has been a huge issue, I think, with Hillary Clinton versus Barack Obama's presidency. Barack Obama's a wildly charismatic figure, whether you agree with him or not, and that comes across all the time.

Hillary Clinton may be good on policy substance. She knows all this stuff. But we've seen her in the debates. We've seen her against Bernie Sanders. We've seen how that's all played out. Despite the entire DNC machinery behind her, the fact of the matter is it's not just a likeability issue, which is not to be mean, it's more of a charisma issue.

She just doesn't come across as somebody who generates a lot of enthusiasm and when you come to the general people vote for what feels -- who does it feel good for them to vote for?

LEMON: As we were --

SEXTON: Not a lot of people are going to say Hillary Clinton. They may say you know that Donald Trump guy? He's actually pretty entertaining.

LEMON: As we sit around in these panels every night and barely do we come out of a soundbite with any other candidate where there's rip- roaring laughter, except for Donald Trump.

LIZZA: You know, Mark, I wonder why is Donald Trump going to be hemmed in by the Commission on Debates, which has controlled the process for decades now? I would not be surprised if Donald Trump said you know what? That's run by Washington insiders --

NAVARRO: CNN town hall.

LIZZA: Why should we be limited to three and one? Why not have a debate every month, and you know, I think that would --


LIZZA: I think he could sort of blow up in this process.

PRESTON: Right, no, no. I think you're right, Ryan. I think that he could actually throw a hand grenade into the Commission on Presidential Debates and say it's an insider organization. I don't think he'll ask for more debates, though. The question is will he ask for less debates or only participate in, say, two debates or maybe he goes straight to television networks themselves.

I mean, listen, he's a wildcard not only for his own party, he's a wildcard for all of us out there now, including the voters.

NAVARRO: What I think is going to very interesting is to see how Donald Trump deals with the woman factor on that debate stage. When Hillary Clinton was debating Barack Obama back in 2008, it was an issue. When Sarah Palin was debating Joe Biden --

LEMON: Hillary will like him well enough, right?

NAVARRO: -- was debating Joe Biden, the vice presidential debate, it was an issue. It's something that every male candidate who's debated a female has had to figure out how am I going to approach this? I think Donald Trump is an equal opportunity attacker and offender and doesn't really care.

He's pretty much gender blind when it comes to attacking his opponents, and I'm wondering how Hillary Clinton is going to respond to that. She better be ready to come after him because he's coming after her.

DOYLE: She's been through it when she debated Rick Lazio when she ran for Senate the first time.


KONST: She has a very long record and not all of it is great. She may have a resume --

(CROSSTALK) KONST: I mean, Rick Lazio is a great guy but she has 20 years now of experience and not all of it is positive. And I think that he's saving those really good soundbites about her foreign policy.

LEMON: Hillary started out tonight with saying we're going to get jobs for people in Virginia -- the coal miners.


LEMON: That is a debate issue.

MCENANY: Right, yes.


MCENANY: The way he talked about it was so important. He talked about the carnage left over from Hillary's deal -- Hillary and Bill's deal with NAFTA, the carnage. Those very visceral, visual terms like the video that showed the workers when it was announced that they were being laid off.

Just those moments that resonate on the human side. He's very good at that, where Hillary Clinton will stand up there and give the 10-point plans and be like a professor that we all fell asleep when we listened to. Donald Trump can bring it home and --

LEMON: Hillary Clinton is no slouch, though, when it comes to debating. I mean, she's -- I mean, and when she wants to turn it on, she can turn it on.

LIZZA: Just let me -- to back up your point, the Rick Lazio-Hillary Clinton debate was a very important debate in terms of how a male candidate takes on a female candidate.

DOYLE: Exactly.

LIZZA: There's a famous moment from that debate where Lazio --

LEMON: Walks over to her, yes.

LIZZA: -- looked very aggressive and turned off a lot of women.

MCENANY: And the Bernie Sanders --

LEMON: But that doesn't seem to matter this time, especially when dealing with --


LEMON: It doesn't seem to matter when it comes to Donald Trump. Nothing seems to stick.


LIZZA: We're going from Republican primary where, say, about 10 million people will have participated, into a general election where it's going to be 100 million people.

SEXTON: One of the Trump's more effective moments, by the way, was actually dealing with Hillary Clinton specifically on the issue women. She started to play the sexism card and Donald Trump came out and said where were you when your husband was abusing women? He's going to make a huge issue of Hillary's --


LEMON: Mark, go ahead. Mark, you're an expert on this, go ahead. What do you have to say with what Ryan said and what Buck said?

PRESTON: Well, a couple of things. One is, as far as the theater that's going to play on stage, if you go back and look at the primary debates Donald Trump had difficulty in actually looking at his critics, you know, his rivals on either side of him. He really tried to keep his stare straightforward and he had a very dower look on his face.

Flip over, and if you remember Hillary Clinton when she was going after Bernie Sanders, she was very well-trained to stare directly at Bernie Sanders whenever Bernie Sanders was talking about her, which has got to be unnerving, specifically if you are criticizing her. She is a very good debater.

[01:55:00] I mean, the irony of the Democrats not doing as many debates as a lot of people would have liked them to do is that Hillary Clinton does very well in debates. She might have done poorlyin one of them but this is actually a good forum for her. And as far as what Buck says, it would be interesting to see what happens. Will Donald Trump go there in these debates? These are different types of debates.

SEXTON: The answer, yes.


DOYLE: Yes, he will go there.

PRESTON: Maybe not, though.

DOYLE: I don't think so. He lost it with Carly Fiorina. I mean, Carly Fiorina really handed it to him in that debate.

LEMON: We'll be right back. Thanks, Mark.


[01:54:00] LEMON: So, the discussion in the break is which gear would you like. I think Carly Fiorina and Ted Cruz was the collector's item.

NAVARRO: I mean, it's a breaking of the record for shortest V.P. candidacy --

LEMON: Four or five days. NAVARRO: -- so I think that's got to be worth something.

LEMON: Thank you, panel.

LIZZA: That's going to be a trivia question 20 years from now.

LEMON: I appreciate it. Thank you, everyone.

LIZZA: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Great conversation. Our coverage of the Indiana primary and the 2016 presidential race continues right now with John Vause and Isha Seshay in Los Angeles.