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America's Two Most Disliked Candidates; Trump and Clinton in Dead Heat in Latest Polls; California in Midst of Democratic Civil War; Donald Trump on Global Warming; Candidates' Celebrity Supporters. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 23, 2016 - 22:00   ET



[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You just saw Fareed Zakaria's special report "WHY THEY HATE US." The questions he raises about American and the Muslim may decide our elections.

Coming up, I'm going to talk to Muslims who are for Trump.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

American voice could face a choice in November between two of the most disliked candidates in our country. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in a dead heat in the latest polls although in the statement like this one to Fox News, Trump seems to be running against himself.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to have guns in the classroom, although in some cases teachers should have guns in classrooms frankly.


LEMON: Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is about to speak in Santa Monica, California in the midst of the democrat civil war. And Hillary Clinton says this.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to unify the Democratic Party and stop Donald Trump.



LEMON: Stopping Donald Trump may be about the only thing Clinton and Sanders agree on.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not going to become president of the United States.



LEMON: But are democrats running out of time to get the job done? Let's begin with that with the race for the White House neck and neck between two candidate's voters -- two candidates voters who just seem to like.

Here to discuss now is Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, a Clinton supporter and former Arizona Governor, Jan Brewer who has endorsed Trump.

Good evening to both of you. Thank you for joining us this evening.


LEMON: Governor Brewer, I'm going to start with you. Two major national polls came out today and they show a race that is in the dead heat right now. The Washington Post/ABC poll shows that Trump has 46 percent, Clinton with 44 percent. The Wall Street Journal/NBC poll shows Clinton with 46 percent and Trump at 43 percent. Are you feeling optimistic about November?

JAN BREWER, FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR: I'm feeling very optimistic about November. I think that Mr. Trump will be our next president of the United States. He has wind beneath his wings and he's got momentum. Our party is coming together, we are uniting and we're going to move on to November and win.

LEMON: To you now Governor Granholm, Donald Trump's support is firming up. Hillary Clinton's support is softening. Now that Clinton is 44 percent, Trump is 46 percent, that was in March. Then in March it was Clinton with 50 percent and Trump with 41 percent.

Is this, do you think this is just a snapshot of a moment in time or is this a red flag?

GRANHOLM: No, it's a totally snapshot. I mean, in the math is very simple on this on the republican side they have one candidate, on the democratic side there are two candidate. So, she's running against two people and Donald Trump is running against one.

Once the Democratic Party decides and makes it official then they will all come together and be united too. This is really a question of timing when this poll was taken.

LEMON: OK. Let's talk about that. You said that she's also running against Bernie Sanders and also against Donald Trump at the same time. but Governor Granholm, in this year's election there's never been anything like it.

And here's one reason why. If Clinton is the democratic nominee running against Donald Trump there have never been two candidates more disliked by the American people. Look at this. Here's 41 percent for Clinton, that's favorable, and then 57 percent unfavorable. And the for Donald Trump 47 percent favorable and 57 percent unfavorable.

Are you looking to this poll election and thinking, dear goodness, give me some strength here.

GRANHOLM: Well, I am looking to say I believe so strongly personally in her and that I know that once she's in the job, I mean, if you just look at her favorability numbers via polls when she was serving in the job as Secretary of State it was 67 to 69 percent favorable.

That was unbelievable because people saw what kind of work she had was able to do. When you are running in a campaign and you have, you know, an entire news channel, for example, focus in an anti-position and you've got huge numbers of ads running against you, of course your numbers are going to drop.

And I do think this election in the fall is going to be an opportunity for the people to have a choice and avoid the Donald Trump side of things with huge unfavorability and on the part of women on the part of Latinos Obviously Arab Americans, it's going to be an incredible exercise in contrast, and I think you'll see that very clearly.

LEMON: Well, they have really high unfavorable numbers. But, Governor Brewer, what do you do when you have numbers like this. You're a political, you know, do you try to build up your own numbers or do you drive your opponent's numbers even lower?

BREWER: Well, I think you have to look at it from both end. But the fact to the matter is that 50 percent of the Democratic Party knows Hillary Clinton they know what she stands for and they don't want her. She doesn't represent the working class and middle class American public. And Bernie Sanders has brought that to light.

[22:05:00] So she has a lot to overcome. Donald Trump has just been in politics for nine months and he has lit the world on fire. We have never seen a phenomena like this before. And I think that everyone will agree.

I think that Bernie is really up there explaining to people that we elect our president that we don't anoint a queen and we're going to push this forward and bring the economy back and bring jobs, and make sure that our country is safe.

And I think that whether you're democrat or you're republican that's what you want.

LEMON: Governor Graham you want to respond?

GRANHOLM: Yes. I mean, first of all, what are Donald Trump's plans to bring jobs to America? All he talks about -- and truly, his record of having of manufacturing jobs, I mean, he's going to places like Pennsylvania talking about bringing jobs to the United States and he's got manufacturing lines in China and in Mexico.

Here is a guy who will not even release his taxes like every other politician has done. He doesn't want us to see that, for example, we know for a fact that he paid zero taxes for several years ago. What does his current -- what does the current tax returns show?

The bottom line is for him. He doesn't want us to know because he doesn't want working people to see that he's paid very little or nothing while they have to pay between 20 and 30 percent.

People when they get to know him, they get to know the fact that he has declared bankruptcy, his companies have declared bankruptcy four times, they know more about him, they are going to run from him in droves.

Hillary Clinton on the other hand, has very specific plans to be able to one, bring people together, but to break down the barriers as she says so that people can succeed.


GRANHOLM: And to make sure that we create jobs in America in a global economy.

LEMON: Governor Granholm, sorry, Governor Brewer -- I want to talk to governors here -- I want to talk about because the Wall Street Journal did wrote something that said that, you know, the tax not refusal of Donald Trump to release his taxes was becoming a bit of liability for Donald Trump.

Hillary Clinton is hitting him on the campaign trail about, you know, bankruptcies and all of that. Should he release his tax returns, should he just get this over with much on the same side that she won't talk about her speeches or won't release the transcripts of her speeches as well. It's a liability for her as well?

BREWER: All these talks, all these attacks about his tax returns, the majority of the American public they could care less.


BREWER: The most of us couldn't even understand his tax returns. The bottom line is that Donald Trump has been a very successful businessman, he's got multiple organizations, multiple businesses underneath. He's been a job creator.

Hillary Clinton hasn't created a job in her lifetime, she's been untruthful on so many issues that people don't believe that she is a truth teller and she is just throwing out the rhetoric. And now she's got 50 percent of her party supporting Bernie Sanders.

And Bernie Sanders is saying she's unqualified so we need a job creator. We know -- we need that can turn the economy around and Donald Trump is an outsider and I think he's going to draw from both sides of the party.

LEMON: OK. Governor Graham, go ahead.

GRANHOLM: Yes. Just quickly, one when she calls Hillary Clinton untruthful when you take a look at the political fact checkers that have evaluated the statements of these candidates, Donald Trump has over one thousand Pinocchio's by fact checkers from lies that he has told.

In fact, he has told so many lies that they created a new category that he got the biggest Pinocchio of the year in 2015 because of all the lies that he tells on the trail.

And there is one that just came up in the past couple of says that we all saw in January, he refuse to go to the Fox News debate because Megyn Kelly was moderating and he hosted a separate event. It was for veterans.

He said that he would raise money, $6 million. He said that he raise for veterans. Come to find out that too was a lie.


GRANHOLM: He doesn't $6 million for them. I'm just saying people need to look at what the people are saying, what these candidate are saying and evaluate Donald Trump. He is not -- he is deceitful, he is dangerous, he is not going to -- he is not going to be president.


LEMON: Let the governor respond to what you said.

GRANHOLM: People are too smart for that. Yes.

LEMON: She does make some -- listen, honestly, Governor Brewer, she does makes a -- she does make a lot of points here when she's talking about the fact checkers that those points are true, but go on.

BREWER: Well, let me -- let me start -- let me start at the beginning in regards to the veterans.

LEMON: I have one minute for you to do it. I'm sorry.

BREWER: There's no one ever that would support the veterans that way Donald Trump had. And nobody cares about his tax returns. The bottom line is that Hillary Clinton...

GRANHOLM: That's not true.

BREWER: ... has lied about her e-mails, she's lied about the income that she's received from giving her speeches. She's under investigation. She probably will be indicted. I wouldn't be surprised.

[22:09:58] And more than that, she lied to the families of the people in Benghazi. Now that's unforgivable. That is absolutely outrageous. She out lied about how that took place in Benghazi.

And it's very disturbing. It's disturbing to mothers and fathers and to children and to the American public, and no one is going to give her a free go in regards to that.

LEMON: OK. All right. Quickly Governor Granholm.

GRANHOLM: Yes. Of course, I mean, she did not lie, the facts were confusing on the ground at the time. And this has been shown again and again especially in 11 hours of testimony that she held before the committee.

They found nothing new there. You will see this. There's been six investigations she did not lie and in fact, the person next in charge of Tray Goudy's committee came away and said not only that but that there was nothing else that anybody could have done to save those lives in Benghazi.


GRANHOLM: It is a terrible tragedy but it was not her fault.

LEMON: And we are out of time.

BREWER: Had she not -- had she not gone home and went to bed and told the families because of video -- she did lie.

GRANHOLM: That just not true.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you. I appreciate both of you joining us. Thank you, governors. I'll see you again soon here on CNN Tonight.

GRANHOLM: Thank you so much, Don.

LEMON: Always live with those two.

When we come right back as Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton battle it out will this whole thing come down to which candidate is disliked the least, and what about Bernie Sanders will his supporters ever support Hillary Clinton?


LEMON: An election is something referred as a popularity contest but this one may be an unpopularity contest.

Here to discuss Washington Examiner columnist is Kristen Soltis Anderson, Matt Lewis, a senior contributor to the Daily Caller, CNN political commentator Hilary Rosen, a Clinton supporter, and New York City councilman, Joseph Borelli, co-chair of Donald Trump's New York campaign.

If you guys can top the last segment, let's see. That was certainly interesting. Matt, I know you listened to all and then you watched it. I want to get your reaction to the conversation I just had with the Governors Granholm and Brewer.

You saw the numbers. We're talking about two thirds two incredibly dislike candidates, I should say. Will it election come down to who voters dislike the least maybe?

MATT LEWIS, "TOO DUMB TO FAIL" AUTHOR: Yes. I think you're going to see it a lot of turnout driven by fear of the other person. And so, you know, nobody will turn out democrats and liberals better than Donald Trump, nobody will get conservatives to come home and to embrace Donald Trump more than Hillary Clinton.

And so then I think what's left over is maybe the edge actually then goes to Donald Trump because aside from the anti-Hillary voters I do think he has inspired this cadre of sort of new nationalist populist voters who actually are excited for him.

So, that's like the, you know, x factor.

LEMON: Yes. They -- Hillary, they are in a dead heat. I mean, 18 -- among 18 to 29-year-old, that crowd. Clinton is at 45, Trump is at 42.Two months ago, Hillary Clinton was leading Trump in that bracket by 39 points.

Obama also won that group back in 2012 by 23 points. I mean, do you see -- you know, is she building on Obama's coalition or they're building on that same enthusiasm from 2008 and 2012.

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Was it W.C. Fields who said I never voted for anybody I that's against I think?

LEMON: But come on, you don't think this is anything new. They are the most disliked candidates that, you know, in modern times.

ROSEN: You know, here is the thing. First of all, I think this poll is just a snapshot. We are still in our primary in case people forgot. And so, we have a number of democrats who haven't come home yet. I think they will come home. And so, the enthusiasm factor is still a little inward looking.

Primaries are about politics. Once you get to the general election people start thinking about who they really want as president. I think that dynamic does change for Hillary Clinton somewhat there.

And then the other really important factor here is that as we know, as we've seen in the last, you know, three or four elections, national polls actually aren't that important.

The election is won and lost in, you know, 13 or foreign battleground states. And when you look at the demographics in those states the math does still work against Donald Trump and for Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: But don't those, everyone says the polls don't matter unless they're winning, and when they're winning they're like, well, the polls are great. I'm winning. I'm winning in the polls. Both, everybody does it, but all of the sudden, Kristen, they don't matter now.

ROSEN: Because the races are in two different places. You know, the polls are like too much of a snapshot.

LEMON: OK. I want Kristen to get in. What do you make of that, Kristen?

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER": I think the polls at this point are not predictive of what will happen in November but they're instructive about the way voters have begun to think about these candidates.

Four years ago, democrats were very successful in making Mitt Romney a cartoon villain early on in the process by saying he was this guy who was captive of Wall Street and it was hard for him to ever dig out of that hole.

In this case, both candidates have sort of already begun launching this barrage of attacks against one another where inferred very negative six months. And the question is, which negative characteristics do voters care about more or less?

In that ABC poll there are certain things where Donald Trump does a lot better than Hillary Clinton, for instance on the question of the economy and who will shake things up in Washington, while Hillary Clinton does better on things like who has the temperament to be president, who has the experience.

So voters may dislike both candidates. But it depends on which attribute they care about most in November that will determine who they vote for.

LEMON: And if you're talking about experience just look at this. Let's put this up, it's an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll and it's talking about military experience in government, or military or government experience.

Six in ten Americans say that they're unsure about Trump's lack of military and government experience including 42 percent who are outright uncomfortable with those holes and he's resonate.

Do you think that's going to be a problem for Trump considering he likes to boast about his, you know, his outsider status, Joseph?

JOSEPH BORELLI, NEW YORK CITY COUNCILMAN: No. I think that it actually plays to somewhat into what he's been trying to say. And just to play on some things that was said earlier, polls are a snapshot, but trends aren't. And we see now a reversal in the trend that that previously had Hillary Clinton beating Donald Trump.

And speaking about some of the specific states as someone pointed out, the polls in those swing states are now favoring Donald Trump.

[22:19:59] In regards to their individual negatives also, she's going to have a tougher time proving to people that she is trustworthy and really no herself as opposed to Donald who simply has become more substantial -- more substantive which he has been doing over the past several weeks.

LEMON: So, Hilary, you have no concern that Donald Trump's numbers are, you know ticking up. Hillary Clinton's numbers are inching down. And at this point you say that they are in two different races, but I mean that has to be disconcerting to Hillary Clinton supporters and to the Hillary Clinton campaign.

ROSEN: You know, I don't think anything -- the only thing that's surprising about what's happening right now is that it's Donald Trump. But any, I really think any republican we would be in the same position with right now.

And that's because the GOP has their nominee, the democrats are still in our primary. And when you come down to it this is a pretty divided country. And so, you know, it is going to be very quickly.

I think you know, 46-46 race and like ever presidential campaign of the last, you know, four or five cycles, both candidates are fighting over that like middle 6 percent, because they end up being the deciders in this election.

So, I do think it's going to be close right up to the end and I do think that's where Hillary Clinton's team always thought it would end up.

LEMON: Yes, but the different is maybe with those Bernie Sanders supporters, because right now two thirds of Bernie Sanders supporters support that they would vote for Hillary Clinton against trump.

So, I mean, what happens if Bernie does it though his 100 percent support behind Hillary Clinton. I mean, won't that make a huge difference?

ROSEN: I think, you know, Senator Sanders has been pretty clear these last two says that he's in the never Trump camp, and so I think despite the sort of, you know, aggressive campaign...


LEMON: He sounds like he's in the never Hillary camp right now though as well.

ROSEN: You know, the never Trump is going to Trump the never Hillary. With Sanders I feel pretty confident about that and I think he's been pretty clear about that. So, you know, we've got -- we've got a few more weeks here for democrats and then things will shake out...


LEMON: I don't think the councilman agrees with you. Why are you shaking your head now?

BORELLI: This has been a disastrous two weeks of Hillary Clinton, not only in terms of Trump exceeding expectations in the polls, but also the fact that this inconvenient problem for her named Bernie Sanders is simply not going to go away.

And if she doesn't win with a majority with the required number of pledged delegates on June 7th, he's not going to go away to the convention.

You know, they really need to take stock, I mean, in the Clinton campaign of the problems that they are now facing and admit that they've largely overestimated everything that they thought about Donald Trump previously.

LEMON: Matt, you want to get in because I find an interesting reading to your notes where you said that saying that the demographics were on Hillary Clinton's side but you are surprised by Donald Trump's as well, right?

LEWIS: Yes, look, if I look at this race and I look at it totally from an analytical standpoint and I say who is going to -- let's look at the electoral map who's going to win the, you know, the Electoral College and then the map demographically who has, you know, the ethnic groups that are growing?

Then you say, you have to bet on Hillary Clinton of course. But, if you look at the race a little bit differently instead now I'm looking at it we live in a country right now where, you know, the 70 percent of the Americans are unhappy with the direction of the country.

And I say which of the two candidate is the change agent and which of the two candidates is the status quo? Now all of the sudden Donald Trump is the disrupter and now all of the sudden I would bet on Donald Trump.

LEMON: Yes. All right. Hang on. Hold on that thought, please. We'll get it after the break. Stick around, everyone.

When we come right back, Trump versus Trump, why the GOP last man standing sometimes seems to be running against himself. We'll be right back.


LEMON: Donald Trump has outlasted 16 other candidates to become the GOP's presumptive nominee, but is he his own worst enemy?

Back with me now, Kristen Soltis Anderson, Matt Lewis, Hilary Rosen, and Joseph Borelli.

Joe, to you first. I'm hoping that you can clear some of this confusion for us from Donald Trump's stand up, you know, stand on the certain topic. He seems to try to have it both ways. Here he is on guns.


TRUMP: I don't want to have guns in classroom. Although in some cases teachers should have guns in classrooms frankly, because teachers are -- you know, things that are going on in our schools are unbelievable.

You look at some of our schools, unbelievable what's going on, but I'm not advocating guns in classrooms, but remember in some cases and a lot of people have made this case teachers should be able to have guns, trained teachers should be able to have guns in classrooms.


LEMON: OK. So, before you -- hang on, before you guys answer, I have to say this and I want to make sure we get it correct here. And I want to read it. Trump he clarified his answers tonight with a phone call with CNN saying that "School resource officers or trained teachers should be the one carrying guns."

He also stood by his adamant criticism of gun, gun free zone but backed away from his blanket call to eliminate all gun free zones in schools saying they would be eliminated in some cases. But, Joe, isn't he's still constricting himself as you heard Hilary.

BORELLI: Right. But give the guy credit, he's willing to call a news organization himself and clarify comments. You've never seen a candidate in political history, a recent political history essentially that transparent and willing to just have a direct conversation about problems like this.

Obviously, he didn't say something very concise and precise when he spoke about guns, but it's clear that he's trying to say that trained people in classrooms should have guns or might solve parts of the problems school shootings. That's a position that a lot of regular Americans agree with if not support.

LEMON: Hilary.

ROSEN: It's just cray. He's cray, like a year and a half ago, he was calling for background checks. And then this year he goes to the NRA seeking their endorsements and says, you know, Hillary Clinton supports elimination, you know,...


BORELLI: It's not even true.

ROSE: ... the second amendment. I mean, there's just no consistent..


BORELLI: Don, he's spent all of his 2013 here in New York rallying against New York...

ROSEN: OK, I let you talk, let me talk now. There's just no consistency with this guy.

[22:29:58] And you know, it's completely asymmetric warfare -- there's no -- he's unaccountable. He has governor the way kind of a normal politician where to have, so that he doesn't even worry about when he is inconsistent.

So, you know, like earlier Matt's point about the rules are kind of out the window are really true, but real thoughtful people can look at what he just said and say we're just not going to buy this.

LEMON: Quickly respond.

BORELLI: He spent all of 2013 and 2014 railing against New York's restricted gun laws here, so I think he has been fairly consistent on this issue perhaps more than others, his sons are both hunters, they're both avid shooters. He's been clear on this issue.

LEMON: So, I want to ask you this because Kristen... (CROSSTALK)

ROSEN: And in Connecticut he calls for background checks absolutely he did.

LEMON: Kristen, Trump's -- you say Trump's appeal is emotional and not rational. So, all of -- you know, Hillary is saying, oh, you know, intelligent or thoughtful people or whatever, but his appeal is not rational it's emotional as you say.

ANDERSON: Yes, I think that not only are all of the rules thrown out the door, but what we've seen is that there are lot of voters who don't have the sort of ideologically consistent world view.

Bear in mind that even within the republican primary, you know, Ted Cruz did well among the very conservative voters, but there are lots of folks where their views are a little all over the board.

They take a little from column, little from column b, and then tons of focus groups where people in the same breath will say I think we really need to cut government spending and then we'll say, a, things they want to increase government spending on.


ANDERSON: It's not that these voters aren't smart, it's not that they're not informed, but it's that flip-flop or things that we think of his ideological and inconsistencies don't always freak out voters as much as sometimes, we, in media or we who work in politics think that they will. And so, I think Donald Trump is sort of blowing the lid off of this miss that people want to perfectly ideologically insist to candidates.


LEMON: But contradicting yourself...

ROSEN: No, I think what she's saying is right.

LEMON: ... contradicting yourself in the same sort of sentence or paragraph...

ROSEN: Exactly

LEMON: ... is different than simply shifting positions.

ANDERSON: No. But I'm not even saying shifting positions I think people change their minds on issues all the time. And I think even when it comes to in the same sentence, saying one thing and then following it up with something that sounds contradictory, that's how a lot of normal people talks to their friends and family about politics.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's the quality we want in a president, but I am saying I don't think it's as disqualifying with as many voters as we might it is. LEMON: Matt, is it OK that he seems to be I think the consensus from

this group maybe that he may be too quick on the draw with some of his answers but that's what people find appealing?

LEWIS: I don't know if that's what the problem there, but I do think, you know, Hillary said that people who were thoughtful in thinking see through this, and my answer to that would be yes, but he needs -- Hillary need the majority.

So, the point is that, you know, I think the voters aren't going to be -- it's not like you're presenting to a judge and a jury where they are keeping track of things.

I think Hillary Clinton is going to find herself trying to basically hammer Jell-O into a wall to catch him on these things. And I don't -- I don't think it's because he thinks off the cuff or he speaks too quickly.

I think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't really have a coherent political philosophy. His philosophy is winning, it's not constitutional conservatism, progressism (ph) or whatever we would normally think of in a political leader.

LEMON: Yes -- go ahead.

ROSEN: I think that's fair. You know, here is what he's consistent about and which I think is really the only chance to kind of nail something to the wall when it comes to his negatives which is the thing is consistent about is doing things that are only in his own self-interest.

And so, you know, he is winning in some respects on this economic argument with people who want to change, who want the country to be for them because they're worried that maybe that we've lost touch with real people's economic security, but he has nothing in his history that actually says that he's for that.

You know, when he declares bankruptcy, it's the construction workers that don't get paid. He has 150 lawsuits -- a 150 lawsuits pending against him because he doesn't honor his business commitments.

You know, there are -- he says he's against college debt but then he creates something like a fraud like Trump University. So, I do think that if there's a way to frame some of these issues that are less about ideology and more about his actual practices where he's kind of screwed the little guy, and the examples are rampant, you know, that's the shot.

LEMON: Joseph.

BORELLI: You know, Hillary is going to back to the playbook and the talking points of the last several months. And if anything we've seen that independents in the most recent polls have broken for Donald Trump.

So, the more she bring up this same tried and true arguments the more people are actually seem to be gravitating towards Trump. Yes, the economic message is the one that works, that's the one that Donald Trump is hitting home and that's the one he's going to continue to hit home until the election.

[22:35:00] LEMON: OK. So, let's talk about more contradictions here. Donald Trump is a politician saying that global warming is a hoax, right.

That's out on the campaign trail, but for Trump the businessman is a different story. The political story detailing Trump's efforts to build the sea wall around his golf course in Ireland, specifically citing climate change as a reason, again, is he trying to have it both ways here. That's you.

BORELLI: That's me? Look, I have no idea why his architects decided to put this in there, their application. I have no idea why Irish rules why you may or may not be able to build a seawall, but the guy is just trying to protect his own property.

And it allows him -- the opportunity to continue to remind people that America makes deals like the Paris climate court that aren't in the benefit of American workers.

ROSEN: He's going to build the wall to keep out undocumented workers from Mexico...


BORELLI: Keep put the Irish, too.

ROSEN: What he did was, you know, use undocumented workers to build Mar-a-Lago and do all of the renovations there.

LEMON: I want...


ROSEN: Actually in polls like that doesn't fly very well. So, I think Joseph is wrong. I don't actually think that the republicans used many of these arguments against him because they actually didn't have many attempts.


LEWIS: They try. They try.

BORELLI: But no one is being polled because no one cares about it. Nobody is focused on what Donald Trump did at his golf course in Ireland. Like you said, they care about the economy. This issue is not even being polled by the pollsters because it's so far off regular Americans point at.

LEMON: Kristen, I have to run, I'll give you the last word on this conversation.

ANDERSON: I think that there's a really good point there that I don't think republicans prosecuted this case particularly well against Donald Trump in the primaries, for the most part their criticism of him was that he wasn't a nice guy or he wasn't all the way conservative.

But we're choosing that republican primary voters didn't care that much about. The general electorate is a little different. So, I think there is a chance if all of the sudden voters stop thinking he is a winner who makes the ton or money and start hearing the argument that Hillary is making, it will be interesting to see if that actually does begin to erode his already pretty bad favorable.

LEMON: Thank you all. See you next time. Coming up, Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson didn't start out a Trump supporter but he is now and he wants to be a spiritual advisor to the presumptive nominee, he is here next.


LEMON: Donald Trump has his share of celebrity supporters but Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson may be the only one hoping to give the candidate bible lessons.

He also got a news, he has a new film called "Torch Bear" And Phil Robertson joins us now. Thank you very much, sir. Good to have you on. How are ou doing?

PHIL ROBERTSON, DUCK DYNASTY STAR: Very good to be here. They told me that you were from Louisiana and I said, man, two Louisiana guys meet on national TV, there's still hope for America, Don.

LEMON: A little town called Port Allen, I'm sure you heard of it, just west of Baton Rouge, that's where I grew up.

ROBERTSON: Yes. I had two brothers graduate from LSU down there.

LEMON: Very nice. Go tigers. So, listen, you listed your qualifications for president earlier this year. I want you to listen to them.


ROBERTSON: My qualification for the president of the United States are (Inaudible), is he or she godly, does he or she love us, can he or she do the job, and finally, can will the killer duck can put up pot and make them a good duck gumbo. I look at the candidates.


LEMON: So, how does Donald Trump meet those qualifications in your opinion?

ROBERTSON: Well, his sons Duck Hunt, which is a positive for him. In fact, we took Donald Jr., got him in the duck bind the guy was a very good shot and down in Louisiana, you know, that kind of elevates a man. So, I know his sons hunt, that's a good sign. I jokingly said to someone the other day that yes, we get a little

bible in old Trump and I think he'll be all right. I said I can see it right now the cameras panning he's the next president of the United States, his cabinet members are there and then the camera pans over and there I am his spiritual advisor. That's how wild this election cycle has been, but I was only kidding, Don.

LEMON: Well, you said you wanted to get -- you know, we'll talk about that sit down between him and a bible and do some discussing, but let's talk about that a little bit on.

I want to originally you said that back Ted Cruz and insisted that he'd make a great U.N. ambassador. Were you happy with the race that Ted Cruz ran? Where did he fall short?

ROBERTSON: Overall, I was happy with Ted. I just knew, I just look at the field. And being a bible man myself, and I probably would be labeled as way out there on the right, but that's not entirely true, but Cruz I knew was a strict constitutionalist.

And I knew his daddy was a preacher, so I thought he probably had good values and was raised right. SO, I look at the Supreme Court nominees coming up and I said you know, I loved though Anthony Scalia, and I said, I'll go with Cruz. That's the reason I went for Ted Cruz.

He didn't make the cut, the people spoke, he said Mr. Trump is the man we want, Willie, one of my sons went with Trump to start with, but as a republican I tend to be loyal to the Republican Party.

The republicans spoke, I said so be it. It's the Constitution of the republic, I'll go with the man you all think ought to be in there.


LEMON: Why did you bypass him in January?

ROBERTSON: It's that simple. Do what?

LEMON: Why did you bypass him in January then?

ROBERTSON: Why did I bypass him?

LEMON: Yes. Why was he not your first pick is what I'm asking?

ROBERTSON: Because I just said, I knew based on their record, Trump is been this man from New York, he's never run for anything that I know of in public office. I knew Cruz's record as far his representing cases before the Supreme Court.

[22:44:59] I knew he was a strict constitutionalist, an originalist. And that's why, that basically is what won me over for Cruz.

LEMON: You also just said something I find very interesting. You said that most people think that you're really far out there on the right but you're not. Explain that to our viewers. ROBERTSON: I'm not an ideologue, meaning I'm not into politics very

heavily. That's the truth of the matter. My job, my task, I deal on the spiritual warfare level, I would love for you to see what my daily, week by week, I would love for you to see what I do.

I work with heroin addicts, people in prison just got out, they're fixing to go to prison, alcoholics, and abused women like you would not believe horrific stories, all types of sexual sins.

That's what we deal with throughout each week over and over and over. I can tell you some wild conversion stories. Some girl just got off a bus in Arizona came down the other day, sat down in front of me. She said "Mr. Robertson, can you help me," I said honey, what's your problem, she said "I'm a heroin addict."

I said, I am here to help you. So, now she's a repentant woman, she's happy, and I'm happy for her. I love that girl. I'm glad she came. But these -- and that's just one about of 15 this past week. It's just so many. We had two -- one couple...


LEMON: What does that -- not to cut you off, but because we have very limited time, you know that it's television, you have a television show you know we deal in time, but how does that not make you really far right considering some of your stances and some of what you said?

ROBERTSON: What I'm saying is I'm not into politics nearly as much as I am into helping my fellow man.

LEMON: Got you.

ROBERTSON: My neighbor, loving my neighbor.

LEMON: All right.

ROBERTSON: That's where I camp out.

LEMON: All right. Phil Robertson, stick around. We're going to have a talk with you on the other side of this break, don't go anywhere.


LEMON: Back with me now Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson. I want to talk to you about something Donald Trump said on Fox and Friends yesterday. Here it is.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to have guns classroom. Although in some cases teachers should have guns in classrooms frankly, because teachers -- you know, things that are going on in their schools are unbelievable.

You look at some of our schools, unbelievable what's going on but I'm not advocating guns in classrooms, but remember in some cases and a lot of people admit this case, teachers should be able to have guns. Trained teachers should be able to have guns in classrooms.


LEMON: So, Trump talked to CNN about this today saying that he means school resource officers or trained teachers should have guns in schools. Is he right?

ROBERTSON: Because there's been so much carnage from time to time in our schools, I don't disagree with his assessment. People just come in the way they have done in some of these schools and just start shooting up the place, I would feel better about it if my children were in that school if someone -- and I would have to stress, because they would have to be fully trained to know firearms and be thoroughly vetted.

But I would say at least they would have had a better chance if that were the case. So, I don't think it's beyond the pale to say trained professionals who are there to protect the children; I don't have a problem with that.

LEMON: Where do you stand on some of Donald Trump's key issues, the Muslim band, building a wall along the border with Mexico, where do you stand on those issues?

ROBERTSON: The border been so chaotic through the years, I think we at least are to be able to verify people coming and going. There's so many drugs coming back and forth, it's just been so chaotic about the last 25, 30 years. There something that needs to be done, whether Trump can pull it all and monitor people coming and going in and out of our country, same like that's a long stretch of territory.

But I would say it's probably worth the attempt. I would think now at this timeframe with ISIS and all these things that are going on I would feel a little better about it if the border were more secure than it is now.

LEMON: And the ban on Muslims?

ROBERTSON: If we know some people are coming in, some terrorists are coming in with certain groups of people, I would think it would be almost impossible to verify whether they've been radicalized or whether they want to come in and killer teams are formed.

It's happened before. I would say we need to monitor that very carefully. Whether you ban them downright, ban them or not, it's kind of like the border. If I'm in Mexico and I have my wife and children there and I'm starving to death living under a piece of tin stretched between two trees and someone told me if you can get across that river and you work hard you can do a lot better just right across the river.

As a human, I would probably be attempted to swim the river and talk my wife and kids with me. So, I understand this is a great place of opportunity and a lot of people want to come here.

I'm for it. But it does need to be monitored because of the current crisis with this asymmetrical warfare and this gorilla fighting, these people are among us and they really can do a lot of damage in a hurry.

LEMON: I want to get to your...


ROBERTSON: So, but to...

LEMON: ... to ban -- go ahead, finish your thoughts because I want to get your film. You said to ban on what?

[22:55:01] ROBERTSON: Do what now?

LEMON: I said finish your thought. You said to banned them, what?

ROBERTSON: To ban them just outright ban them all, I don't know. I just know it has to be checked carefully if you're going to let people in.


LEMON: Let's talked about "Torchbearer" now. It just screen at the Cannes Film Festival, so tell me about it. How is it received?

ROBERTSON: I thought it was received well, but it is hard to tell you know, I looked around, Don, and I said it looks like I'm the only guy around here with camouflage britches on.

I think they felt some of them that I was a homeless man but they were perplexed because they were thinking why would be homeless man have those beefed up body guards with him.

But I think "Torchbearer" was received well by the audience that saw it. Who knows, who knows what we'll do. I think it needs to be seen. I do think that. It's one of the very few films I've seen that I've shed tears.

LEMON: Well, the film is called "Torchbearer" and it's at the premier at the Cannes Film Festival. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you joining us, Phil Robertson.

ROBERTSON: All right, man.

LEMON: Thank you. When we come right back, meet the man who just might be Donald Trump's least likely supporter. He's going to tell me why he's on board with Donald Trump, the Trump train.


LEMON: You heard what Donald Trump says about Muslims but wait till you hear why some support him.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.