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Clinton Hammers Trump on Trump University; Pres. Obama Blasts GOP and Donald Trump; Clinton and Sanders Battle in California. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 1, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That does it for us. Thanks very much for watching. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Trump schooled. You're looking live at Donald Trump's rally in Sacramento, California. We're going to listen in now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He has teleprompters, do I have teleprompters here? No. But she's got like these minor speeches and she's going -- and I saw this a couple times, you know, in Fort Worth. We're going to win in the north, south, east, and west. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, boy. So insecure. Number one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Hillary Clinton is wasting no time hammering her presumptive opponent on Trump University.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump himself is a fraud.
He is trying to scam America the way he scammed all those people at Trump U.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders does not hear the fat lady singing, not yet anyway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wonder why Secretary Clinton and her husband Bill are back in California. I thought we had lost, that it was all over, but I guess Secretary Clinton maybe is looking at some polling that would suggest otherwise. (END VIDEO CLIP)
And the campaigner chief doesn't want to mention Trump's name. Let's listen to what he says on PBS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, he seems to do a good job mentioning his own name, so I figured -- you know, I'll let him do his advertising for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We're going to begin with CNN's Sarah Murray with the Trump campaign in Sacramento. hello to you, Sarah, after lashing out at the press today, what has Donald Trump got to say now?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, he has been lashing out at the press yet again, he talked about his veteran's fundraiser essentially saying he did a great thing, he got all this terrible publicity, he went on to the press for being bad people.
Interestingly, he hasn't really dug in at all on the Trump University issue though. But, Don, he tried it off pretty early at this campaign rally, going after his favorite target, which is always the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Politicians get the most attention the more outrageous they sound. And so, if you're civil and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She needed this thing. Decisions on Syria, Iraq...
LEMON: So, Sarah, that was the president tonight speaking out about this race, he was on PBS this evening. Is Donald Trump responding to that at all?
MURRAY: We have not heard him respond directly to what President Obama said, but I think that there is little chance that what the president does say will change Donald Trump's tone.
I mean, we've heard from advisors, we've heard from establishment republicans who want to support Trump just if you could change the tone a little bit, they might be able to get on board. But I think you saw in that very contentious press conference yesterday, Trump saying he doesn't plan to change anything if he's elected president.
So that's exactly what press weekends will be like when he's in the White House and he's not afraid of going after the press.
But I think, Don, what you are also seeing is him sort of getting used to the scrutiny that comes along with running for president. And he's clearly not entirely comfortable with it. LEMON: Sarah, there's been a lot of talk today about the lawsuit
against Donald Trump alleging fraud, some former employees at the Trump University calling the program a scam. What has he been saying about that today? Is he talking about it?
MURRAY: Well, the campaign has released some testimonials from students who said they had a good experience. And of course this has been the campaign's response for the last few days. That many students felt like it was a valuable course. They felt like they got a lot out of it, but so far, here at this event Trump has not addressed the Trump University case.
And it's interesting to hear him the last couple days that he could have settled those case and he could have put it to bed and he's chosen not to. So, Don, this is really the kind of thing that continue to dog him throughout the campaign. It's actually people continuing to turn up more document-related to the camp.
LEMON: All right. Sarah Murray live only the campaign trail with Donald Trump this evening. If anything happens there we'll get back to Sarah.
In the meantime, Hillary Clinton has some very tough talk for Donald Trump today. Here to discuss that is CNN's Jeff Zeleny and Mr. Drew Griffin. Good to see both of you.
So, Jeff, Hillary Clinton also had a lot to the say about Trump University lawsuit today, what can you tell us about that?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: There was a most pointed and personal remarks we've heard her say yet about this. I mean, she went after not only the program, but calling himself, Donald Trump a fraud. She used that word over and over.
She was introduced in working to New Jersey by Jon Bon Jovi, pretty well of light mood and she went right into Donald Trump. This is something the campaign was not expecting necessarily. They want to talk about other things this week before this is landed in their laps and they are running with it.
They believe it speaks to one of his strengths. His business acumen and it has real faces, real voices, real people, that she went after him so aggressively. Let's take a listen to how.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:04:55] CLINTON: Trump and his employees took advantage of vulnerable Americans encouraging them to max out their credit cards, empty their retirement savings, destroy their financial futures, all while making promises they knew were false from the beginning.
This is just more evidence that Donald Trump himself is a fraud.
He is trying to scam America the way he scammed all of those people at Trump U.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: All those people at Trump U, that's very important. We're going to see those people, a lot of the victims that you've been reporting on, Drew, in campaign ads, in other things, making this case here.
Now the question is does it matter? Donald Trump has been Teflon so far, but this is slightly different because there are real people, real faces behind it.
LEMON: But this is man from heaven for them.
LEMON: As you said landed in their laps, and they're going to use it to the best of their advantage and possibility.
ZELENY: And they are investigating this as much as anyone else is. They are trying to, you know, find newer details. But the question is, I mean, Trump supporters won't be swayed by this. But they believe it may stop the expansion of Trump's growth.
For anyone out there who's thinking, you know what, he sounds OK, it's time to shake things up.
ZELENY: They believe that this could sort of slow his growth, and that's what they're trying to do right now.
LEMON: The documents unsealed by the judge reveal scathing remarks by a former sales manager from Trump University that you've investigating, Drew, what did they say?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: You're talking about man from heaven these declarations that were released today is what Hillary Clinton built her speech on. These are quotes from those very documents that were released today, and why they are damning is because they do come from Trump University workers themselves.
People who worked at the school, consider this from a sales manager, he writes this in his declaration, "They preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money." And this person resigned because "I believe that Trump University was engaging in misleading, fraudulent, and dishonest conduct."
Corinne Summer, she's a former sales manager, "I've recalled that some consumers have showed up who were homeless and could not afford the seminars. Yet, I overheard Trump University representatives telling them, it's OK, just max out your credit card."
These are declarations from former Trump University employees. Now the Trump people came out right away and said, look, these people were disgraced, they're discredited in depositions. However, those depositions were not going to release because this is heading to trial.
LEMON: They're saying there are other people who are happy with Trump University. And that's what the campaign is saying.
GRIFFIN: And they're very well may be. I mean, obviously some people may have gone on from this, the question doesn't seem to be if you have 10 people that failed and 10 people that, you know, were successful, does that mean a fraud?
There's fraud allegation here that what was promised and what was delivered are two different things, and that's why these three cases are moving forward, here in New York, two in California.
LEMON: When will they go to court? What's the timeline?
GRIFFIN: It looks like the earliest could be November 28th, which would be after the election, Jeff. But I'm telling you these cases have been going on for years, Don, a lot of playing going on legally, delay, delay, delay, and to try to bleed out the plaintiffs I believe in this case. So, who knows when they'll go to trial.
LEMON: Let's talk about the campaign trail now, Jeff. Because Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are battling it out in California. Let's put this up the poll here. This is a new NBC News/Wall Street journal poll and it shows Clinton just two-point -- just a two-point lead over Sanders there, 49 percent to 47 percent. How important do you think does this Clinton campaign think California is to their efforts right now?
ZELENY: Pretty important. And that's why she is flying out there tomorrow and spending the next five days in California.
ZELENY: In a matter of delegates, they don't need the delegates, she will effectively clench the nomination with pledge and the promise of super delegates. Even though Sanders supporters don't want to count super delegates until the summer.
But on next Tuesday, she will sort of, she will clench it, but the question is, is she going to run through the finish line or limp to the finish line? And a loss in California, 475 electoral votes would make her a wounded candidate. That's why she's campaigning across California starting tomorrow through next Tuesday.
LEMON: Bernie Sanders is now saying that he's going to campaign those super delegates to try to get them to change, right? But...
ZELENY: He is and it's a tough argument. And easier if he wins California.
ZELENY: That he can say look, I am the more electable candidate here, there are still, you know, some things coming out about her, but the reality is, we're seeing the parties circle, it's starting to circle the wagon.
Senator Harry Reid tonight told the Associated Press after next week Bernie needs to look at the map. And the president, he said the same thing as well. And beginning next week, it's time to sort of, you know, get on with this.
LEMON: Speaking of the president, he spoke out about the democratic race today. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I think that there's been a healthy debate in the Democratic Party and it's almost over. You know, we got, on Tuesday, you'll have some big states, California and New Jersey, where the votes will take place.
[22:10:02] What I've tried to do is to make sure that voters, rather than me big footing the situation or deciding the outcome. I think we'll probably have a pretty good sense next week of who the nominee will end up being.
I think both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are good people, I think that they broadly share the goals that I have, there are some tactical differences within the Democratic Party about how do you get stuff done. But there's going to be plenty of time for me to step in and campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It seems like he's ready to get out there. but the question is even, you know, Bernie Sanders is saying I'm going all the way to the convention, if he does, can we expect an endorsement before the convention or...
ZELENY: We absolutely can and he's spoken in past tense there, so what I've tried to do is be neutral with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sander, not what I'm trying to do. Look for the president to make some type of a move as early as next week.
He'll be out campaigning. They think it's so critical, if Bernie Sanders decides to go to the convention, senior White House advisors say that the president feels no obligation to remain on the sidelines. He will get in this race before Bernie Sanders gets out.
LEMON: That would be interesting to watch. Especially as Bernie Sanders said he's going all the way. And you said, the president said that Bernie Sanders needs to start looking at the map? Is that -- is that...
ZELENY: Senator Harry Reid said that.
LEMON: Senator Reid said that.
ZELENY: The democratic leader said in an interview with Erica Warner from the Associated Press in Nevada tonight, that it's time to start looking at the map. So, we're starting to see this happening here. And these things are slow going, but after next Tuesday, I think it will move faster.
LEMON: Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate it.
When we come right back, the man who says the real Donald Trump is nothing the angry candidate on the campaign trail. So, what is trump really think about what he calls the dishonest media?
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Barack Obama blasting the GOP and Donald Trump today in Indiana, and the source telling CNN the president is itching to fire up democrats for the fall election.
Let's discuss now. Michael Wolf is here, he's a columnist for the Hollywood Reporter whose cover story is titled "The Donald Trump conversation, politics is having the best time anyone's ever had," also -- that's an interesting title, also here with me is Mark Preston, executive editor for CNN politics.
Good to have both of you on, gentlemen. Mark, President Obama was out and he was talking about Donald Trump as he was calling him an attention-getter. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Politicians get the most attention the more outrageous they sound. And so if you're civil and quiet and polite, nobody covers you. But if you say something crazy or rude, you're all over the news.
And that has fed, I think, this kind of arms race of insults and controversy that doesn't shine a lot of light even though it generates a lot of heat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, do you think the president can get his share of attention campaigning against him? I mean, do you think that's going to help Hillary Clinton?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Yes, no doubt. On several different fronts. One, as the commander-in-chief, eight years as the president, he can speak to having to deal with world leaders. And he can try to take Trump down on Trump's positions or how he's actually interacting or saying anything on foreign policy.
Second thing is he can raise money, the third thing is, let's not forget how Barack Obama was elected president. He was elected president on the backs of the youth voters. Young people coming out to support him, as well as African-Americans.
Now, what he can do with African-Americans is get the number of African-Americans out even higher than it possibly could be for Hillary Clinton, and he could also help build, you know, build the bridges to these younger voters that Bernie Sanders has been able to move during his democratic primaries.
LEMON: Do you think that maybe the president is the only person who can somehow make a dent when it comes to Donald Trump because he, Donald Trump neutralized Bill Clinton who one of the, probably the most popular democrat outside of the president in the country?
PRESTON: No, I think it's going to take. It's going to take a lot of people. It's going to take a course of democrats to try to take him down.
But let me just add this as we're talking about Barack Obama, it's really a package deal. It's Joe Biden trying to go to the Rush Belt states. It's Michelle Obama who really is this, you know, the secret weapon. It's Joe Biden, Dr. Jill Biden who is liked by democrats, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Bill Clinton, and whoever she picks as a W.P. Look at that. That's a lot of powerful surrogates that could be on the trail for Hillary Clinton.
LEMON: Let's talk about Donald Trump, Mr. Wolf. All right, because I want to get this right. He has called a press disgusting and dishonest; he called a reporter a sleaze just yesterday to his face. He has insulted republicans who don't support him, he is -- all of this while he's being sued for fraud.
You just interviewed him. Fascinating interview in the Hollywood Reporter, the Donald Trump conversation, politics, dark heart is having the best time anyone ever had. It's fascinating here, what do you make of the man?
MICHAEL WOLF, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER COLUMNIST: Well, let me respond to something...
WOLF: ...something you were -- you were just talking about because I think the interesting thing here, and the dividing line, the real issue is that Donald Trump is doing something that has never been done before in national politics at this level.
He's saying, vote for someone who bears no resemblance, zero resemblance to anything we have grown up thinking a politician, no less a president should be.
LEMON: Including Barack Obama.
WOLF: I am 100 percent different from every expectation that you have ever had. I'm not interested in doing what politicians do. I'm not interested really in policies. What I am interested in is a singular one thing, which is, and the president referred to this as though it was a bad thing. I am interested only in holding your attention.
[22:19:56] And I think that that will ultimately fail, that it should fail, but it might not because it is -- I mean, we obviously have seen it succeed over the course of this year in an astounding way, and that is really the real Donald Trump.
I'm not interested in anything politicians are interested in. I'm interested in me and what you think of me.
LEMON: The only -- the only reason or the main reason you think it's going to succeed is because, it could succeed is because it has so far.
WOLF: Yes. I mean, I'm standing like everybody. Like all of us standing on the sidelines with my jaw, you know, in my hands.
LEMON: Yes. So, what did you make of him? Because I was surprised that you'd interviewed him in California, because he's such of a New Yorker, right? He's such an East Coast figure, what did you make of him?
WOLF: I thought he was, you know, the Donald Trump we know, this angry, combative, hostile figure, well, it turns out, he's not like that at all.
WOLF: He is quite the opposite, I don't think there's one angry strand in his, in his make-up. He is, he's one of the happiest guys I've seen in years. Just fully enjoying what he has created here.
LEMON: OK. OK. So, here's the thing, it's fascinating because I've interviewed him many times, in a couple -- I think at least three times in person, and he is what you say he is. He is quite, you know, neat and when you meet him. He's a very nice person, but then when he gets on the podium and gets up there on stage, he becomes something else, or someone else, a performer, as if he is in the "Apprentice" and he's acting out his own, he wants to be the apprentice himself. What is that?
WOLF: Yes. I would say that's it. He is a performer. He knows what the audience wants to hear and he knows what the audience wants to hear in that particular moment.
LEMON: He's quite -- he's quite a bit insecure in my estimation, in person because he could bring his own poll numbers, right, and he shows you around, look at this, look at this. I think he's a bit insecure in person, and we all are.
WOLF: I think it is all about I want you to like me.
WOLF: And in a more public way, it's I want your attention. I need whatever it is he needs everything to be focused on him, it needs to be all about him. I could not get him to talk about Hillary Clinton, his opponent, because, and it was very clear, it was like, why are you talking about her when you're here to talk about me?
LEMON: About me. But if you showed that side, a bit of vulnerability which you do, which you see when you meet him, do you think that that would help? Because he has such high unfavorability numbers, and then vulnerability sometimes helps people to get to -- they feel like they are like you. PRESTON: Human.
LEMON: Human, yes.
PRESTON: Yes, so I mean, look how he grew up. He grew up with some of the very successful, right here in New York, he went out, followed in his father's footsteps, probably always in the shadow. Had to overcome that himself. He is, you know, to your point, very defensive.
You know, when challenged. He is in a cut throat world here in New York City, but you pointed I think one of his biggest weakness is his inability to be contrite. To show some contrition.
You know, if you go back to July of last year when he was asked, you know, have you ever asked God for forgiveness, which is the simplest thing in the world to answer. If you are a politician, and even if you don't believe in God, you say sure, I do. And he himself could not do that.
WOLF: I disagree with this. I mean, you know, his thesis could ultimately be proved wrong, but right now, the thesis is, I am catering, I'm catering to this, the television.
His -- this is what his -- I mean, and this piece I said, I said his real party is the media. That's what he's working here.
LEMON: He doesn't hate the media as much as he says. He loves the media.
WOLF: As a matter of fact, the interesting thing is more than any other politician that I know of, his roots are deep in the media. He knows your -- all of your bosses. He knows every boss in the media. He knows every, every person who's important to him in the media business. He has a close relationship to them.
LEMON: And he knows what you're doing, he will remind me of certain stories or conversations that I've had on the air. He watches.
WOLF: No, no. So, all of these other politicians are concerned about what's going on in Washington and Congress, in state houses, he has wiped that all away, not important. What's important is how the media works. And the media works with conflict, it'll deliver the conflict.
LEMON: The thing is that, I don't think that he should be callng people sleazes. Right? But, you know, listen, that's up to him.
[22:25:00] But, you know, sometimes don't you think the media's a little -- take themselves too seriously?
WOLF: Yes, yes.
LEMON: Because if Donald Trump calls you out or whatever, it's kind of a badge of honor. He doesn't care. You just move on.
PRESTON: We can expect him, Don, to have a thick skin, if us in the media don't have thick skin, right.
LEMON: Don't have thick skin. Yes.
PRESTON: But I would say this about how he's gotten to where he is right now. OK. We've never seen it before, however, we do know it was tried and true. We know what works to win political campaigns.
He was working in appealing to a certain segment of the population that was very angry and that was the Republican Party, conservative republicans. Hint to win in the general election, he needs to broaden his appeal to independents, perhaps some disaffected democrats. And right now the way he's running his campaign, that not going to happen.
LEMON: His popularity is not going to -- yes.
WOLF: Of course, if he wins, we're going to lack back and say -- and say, we looked at this in all of the traditional ways that political professionals look at a race. And that's...
LEMON: We were wrong.
WOLF: ... been turned out to be wrong and that's fine.
LEMON: Can I talk to you about the issues? Because you know, as you knwo he is going to visit the U.K. this whole thing about maybe banning him from the U.K. because of his Muslim ting, but what about the Brexit? This debate over Britain should leave the European Union, a huge story, did he have a position on it?
WOLF: Yes. Well, I said to him, I said to him...
LEMON: Which is British exit. But go ahead.
WOLF: I said what about Brexit? You know, now Brexit is the key issue in Europe now. You cannot know anything about European politics if you don't know -- you haven't heard the word Brexit. It's probably the most frequently used word in the British news media over the last six months.
I said what about Brexit? He said, huh? I mean, really? And you get, as a reporters sometimes, you know, your heart goes out to the subject, and you think, I've got to save this guy, and I said Brexit. And he said -- and then -- And then I said, I mean, he obviously had no idea.
Had never heard this word. Had been that removed from the whole discussion. And then I said well, you know, the move in Britain to leave the European Union. And then he said, oh yes, they should leave.
But it was that kind of disengagement from the issues at hand. And one would think, that's got to be devastating to him, but I don't think it is. I actually think that it is he gets a free pass and it kind of animates, it speaks to the large part of the electorate who also are not interested in these issues.
LEMON: I have to tell you, I had a conversation with some 20 something about Brexit at dinner the other night, so these, you know, millennials even know.
Thank you. Fascinating article. I even read the Hollywood Reporter.
LEMON: Thank you, Michael Wolf and Mark Preston, I appreciate it.
Up next, President Obama tonight calling out Donald Trump. We're going to hear what he said.
[22:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: In what's likely -- what's likely to be a preview of his role in the election. President Obama seems to enjoy taking swipes at Donald Trump.
Here to discuss, Maria Cardona, a super delegate committed to Hillary Clinton. She thinks she's special because she is super. Van Jones who worked in the Obama administration, he thinks he is special he worked in the Obama administration.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She is special.
LEMON: Kayleigh McEnany, a Trump supporter. She thinks she is special because she graduated from Harvard Law School recently. Congratulations, by the way.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
LEMON: I forgot to mention it the other night when we're on air. And Matt Schlapp, who is political director for President George W. Bush. And he's special because he worked for George W. Bush. So, Kayleigh, we're going to start with you.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're special too, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much. More President Obama on PBS tonight. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Like the person you just mentioned who I'm not going to advertise for. That he's going to bring all these jobs back. Well, how exactly are you going to do that? What are you going to do? There's no answer to it. He just says, I'm going to negotiate a better deal. Well, how exactly
are you going to negotiate that? What magic wand do you have and usually the answer is, he doesn't have an answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Short on specifics, is the president right?
MCENANY: I don't think so. Because, you know, people know Trump as a job creator. And if we talks about specific policies businesses have been fleeing our country because there's inhospitable climate, so he's going to make it hospitable, one.
And two, if you build your cars in Mexico, there's going to be a tariff, there's going to be a consequence for leading the country, but taking advantage of the laws.
So, I think he has many specifics and, you know, the president is a likable guy, I think he's going to be a big ally for Hillary Clinton, but I think he's going to have a lot of questions to answer on his own administration some of the policies he had.
LEMON: Do you think the Trump campaign is ready for the commander-in- chief to come out swing against him? Because he appears to be itching to get in there.
MCENANY: I think they are ready. Look, I think that this is - will be Hillary Clinton's strongest part of her campaign, is having President Obama there. He's very likable, but wages have collapsed under his administration, we're still double digit unemployment for millennials, minorities. So, he's got a lot of questions to answer.
LEMON: Maria, President Obama as campaigner and chief was on the road earlier in Elkhart, Indiana today. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If we get cynical and just vote our fears, or if we don't vote at all, we won't build on the progress that we started. We've got to come together around our common values. Our faith and hard work, our faith and responsibility; our belief in opportunity for everybody.
We've got to assume the best in each other, not the worst. We've to remember that sometimes we all fall on hard times and it's part of our job as a community of Americans to help folks up when they fall.
Because whatever our differences, we all love this country. We all care about our children's futures. That's what makes us great. That's what makes us progress and become versions of ourselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Maria, even the president staunchest opponents said he is a great campaigner. Is this exactly what Hillary Clinton needs? CARDONA: Absolutely, it is. And even just now, Son, what he was
talking about, it did have a very direct impact and contrast to how Donald Trump talks about this country.
[22:34:57] I thought it was brilliant what he was saying, he was on fire, he was, you know, really focused on what the positive attributes of this country are, versus Donald Trump who likes to talk down this country, who likes to divide us, who focuses and preys on people's fears, on their bigotry.
Focuses as an end game on their exasperation without offering any inspiration. That is not what a leader does. And I think President Obama going out on the stump and focusing on the fact that this country is great.
CARDONA: And guess what, all of the people in it are what make it great. It's going to be a great contrast for Hillary Clinton.
LEMON: As you said what you said, in stereo, you guys shook your heads no, and you're like, why?
MATT SCHLAPP, GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No, I mean come on, this is absurd. The fact is that Obama is the uniter and somehow, you know, Donald Trump is our republican nominee is the divider. That's the narrative they want.
But the fact is, let me tell you how you feel under President Obama. I don't feel very much like my views are respected, I don't feel like if you're a person of faith, that your first amendment rights are respected are respected as they should be.
I think it's positively absurd that we're going after the little sisters of the poor. We got to leave them the heck alone. I think there's a lot of disturbing trend on what's happened in this Obama progressive agenda.
And I don't think that Americans actually feel like they're loved and they're respected by this agenda. I actually feel because there's a lot of people who feel out in the cold, and I think Donald Trump is appealing to them.
LEMON: Van Jones, do you think that this administration has ignored certain people, certain voices and does Matt have a point? Maybe Donald Trump has picked up on that and have included those people?
JONES: Well, I think it's definitely the case that if you listen to right wing radio, you watch another station which I won't advertise for, they're definitely has been a drum beat that somehow America has been taken away from you and you're being left out.
And I think that there's some real pain out there. I think it's economic pain, I think that there's some uncertainty out there and I think that Trump has tapped into that, and so has Bernie Sanders.
LEMON: Do you think that's a talking point?
LEMON: That certain people have been left out. Rather you don't think it's -- do you think it's perception rather than reality?
JONES: Look, I think that when President Obama does reach out, it's often ignored in those media sources. And he reaches out often. If he makes any mistake, it's actually blown out in those forces. So, there's a distortion effect there.
But I want to point out very clearly is what you just saw from President Obama, was extraordinary. Ordinarily, whether you're talking about going from the end of the Clinton administration and then Gore trying to run, you want to separate yourself from the president.
McCain, separated himself from W. This is the first time in my adult lifetime I've seen somebody saying, I want a third term. Hillary says I'm running for a third team, usually that's suicide. But what you -- the reason that it's not this time is because of the exceptional communication skills that Obama has.
He has not been able to reach out to everybody, but he's reached out to a very big coalition of people that previously felt left out, I think he's doing a brilliant job of that.
LEMON: OK. Stand by, everyone. Everyone will get a chance to talk.
When we come right back, Hillary Clinton hammering Donald Trump calling him and Trump University a fraud. But will her attacks and the lawsuits filed against him do serious damage to his campaign or nothing at all? We'll be right back.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I think it's fair to say the gloves are off for Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, but both candidates are dealing with some bad news this week.
Back with me now to discuss, Maria Cardona, Van Jones, Kayleigh McEnany, and Matt Schlapp.
Before we get to that, I want to put all this poll. This is a new poll, Van, this is for you, Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by only two points. It's not great news for her, but it's probably good news for him.
You say it's going to take both the Clintons, both Obamas, and both Sanders to beat Trump. So, what's your first reaction to this poll?
JONES: Well, I think the people have to -- take a look, listen, all we heard from September until very recently was oh, my god, if Donald Trump is nominated, he's going to get 2 percent of the vote in Mississippi, and other than that, every other state is going to vote for democrats, it's going to be the end of the Republican Party, and it turns out, all that was not exactly right. LEMON: I think you said that on this program.
MCENANY: Yes, you did say that.
JONES: Hold on, hold on, I said that, in September, but even I, by October, by October I was starting to back up, now, Don, you're just mad because you got it right early and got beat up. So, you got it right early or you got beat up.
But a lot of people were stuck on this narrative until very recently. So, I just want to say listen, I think her numbers will improve as soon as these primaries settles down, but everybody who said that as soon as he's nominated, the Republican Party's going to collapse, so you've got to take that back now, because that's not what's happening at least so far.
LEMON: Yes. So, let's talk about it. I want to know, Kayleigh, what happen to unity. Remember when, you know, he was on the Hill a couple of weeks ago meeting with Paul Ryan, but then an interview with Sean Hannity, he said, you know, "I don't need endorsements, I don't care if the establishment," -- so, what happened to...
MCENANY: That's true.
LEMON: ... to the party coalescing or, you know, unifying the party. What's going on?
MCENANY: That's true. Because he realizes that the voters are behind him. Because look, the New York Times/CBS poll taken 13 days ago, says 80 percent of republican voters are behind him.
Also you look today at the Quinnipiac poll, what's so interesting, Donald Trump actually got more democrats and Hillary Clinton got republicans who does appear the voters are coalescing. He just doesn't think he needs endorsements. And, Van, you have been saying for months that Donald Trump is a serious candidate and that he will be a contender. So, to your credit you've been saying that.
LEMON: But, Matt, he does, he needs the establishment, though, doesn't he need the establishment to help bring the party together?
SCHLAPP: Yes. Look.
LEMON: I mean, this simpler thing.
SCHLAPP: It's better -- look, this could be a tight race. It's better if he gets every conceivable vote he can. It's better if his team is more unified than less unified. It's going to be better for this money he has to raise if the major establishment donors are on board. It's all a better. But here's the fact. In the end, he's running against Washington. He's running against a lot of these politicians, including republicans who've been office at a long time. He's running against Washington, D.C. and Washington, D.C. is having a hard time digesting him for that very reason.
LEMON: But in the general, he needs delegates.
LEMON: And he needs those people on this side.
SCHALPP: That's right.
LEMON: It's not a popularity contest when it comes to that, right?
SCHLAPP: The difference is that which is he needs to continue to say that he's going to be different from the way republicans have been doing business.
[22:45:00] LEMON: OK.
SCHLAPP: And he needs to continue to pull over independents which I think he's going to be quite staggering on.
LEMON: I want to stick with you, because I want to talk about some of the controversy, right? There's an analysis by USA Today, it found that there has been 3500 legal actions by and against Donald Trump over the past three decades, 70 had been just in the past year since he declared his candidacy.
No other litigious presidential candidate has had that kind of background. Do you think this is worsen for someone who's vying for the Oval Office or is this something that goes along with having a business, a type of business that Donald Trump has?
SCHLAPP: I'm told my by rich friends that when you're rich, a lot of people sue you. And we're hearing a lot of business...
LEMON: The reason...
SCHLAPP: Well, I don't know how you quantify that, this is the richest person that's ever run for president. He's been a lot of different business. And my guess is that he's the kind of guy that doesn't just roll over easy in the legal battles.
And I think that's one of the character traits that people want. But the fact is this, he's running for president, it's an open system, and everybody's going to go through all of these court cases and if there are delicious little nuggets, guess what? We're going to be talking about them.
LEMON: We're going to be talking about all of them. Maria, as everyone knows now, one of those legal fights that Trump University, we've been discussing ad nauseam here, Hillary Clinton tweeted and re- tweeted about Trump University, at least 18 times today, including this re-tweet from Mitt Romney, nonetheless.
He says, "Here's what I know, Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worse less as a degree from Donald Trump University." So he calls her a crooked, she calls him a fraud, I mean, what does she have to continue -- why does she have to continue to prove that she isn't crooked? What does she have to do?
CARDONA: Well, I think there's a big difference that we have to talk about here and context. You know, she does have issues with trust and honesty, and I think the e-mail issue certainly hasn't helped her.
But here's the issue, with the e-mails, she didn't hurt anybody. She did not go out and on purpose, try to defraud people out of their life savings. She did not focus and target the most vulnerable out there to essentially sell them a lie. Which is what the allegations are not just in the one lawsuit, but there are two more just like it.
And I think this is just the beginning of uncovering exactly what kind of businessman Donald Trump was. And what we are seeing so far is not a pretty picture in a general electorate which is very different...
LEMON: But she did say she didn't want her personal e-mails...
CARDONA: ... from the primary electorate that he is -- that he had to take during the primary process.
LEMON: She said she didn't want her personal e-mails, people seeing her personal e-mails, and so setting up a server, it has not been litigated yet, and if it does turn out to be that, we don't know what the motivation was until she's under oath.
But listen, Van, I've to run, but I have to ask you about this. Former State Department I.T. specialist who's involved in setting up and maintaining Hillary Clinton private e-mail server plans to invoke the Fifth Amendment the deposition next week. And then the staffers has already accepted immunity deal with the FBI. How bad is this for her? Quickly, please.
JONES: Look, I think it's bad. Well, I'm proud of Hillary Clinton, though, for apologizing and saying that she was wrong. I haven't heard Donald Trump apologize very often and say he was wrong very often. But she was wrong on this, she said it's not good for her, and wish she hadn't done it and so did she.
LEMON: All right. Stick around, everybody. When we come back, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders do battle in California, but will Sanders take the fight all the way to the convention? Yes.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are battling it out in California. Back with me, Maria Cardona, Van Jones, Kayleigh McEnany, and Matt
Schlapp. The question was is Bernie Sanders is going to go all the way to the convention? Yes, of course he is. He has said as much. Every surrogate who's been on is saying he is going , he is going.
So, Van, there's a new NBC poll, it shows a very tight race in California on Tuesday, do you think that a lot of Sanders voters aren't being polled and are, you know, are being insulted and patronized, why do you think that?
JONES: Well, no, no. I think a couple of things. One is I think that this race is going to be a lot tighter than people thought. And certainly even a month ago, but it's a couple of factors here.
One is all the Bernie people here are going to vote. I happen to be in Oakland for game seven, go Doves, for game seven and I happened to run into massive crowd of people I thought were in Oakland to see game seven, they were there for Bernie Sanders.
So, they're all going to go vote. Hillary Clinton's people may not vote as strong. Even though she's got a lot of support. Also, I think his people may not being may not be getting polled, young people, people on cell phones.
So, I think that there could be a surprise there, but I was saying about some of them feeling either patronized or insulted, it's just that same, you know, problem that we're having of getting the party unity. That stuff can get resolve and will get resolved.
LEMON: What about...
JONES: Don't be surprised if he does better than people think on next week.
LEMON: Hey, quickly. What about his strategy of just trying to woo these super delegates away in the meantime?
JONES: I think it's kind of hypocritical because he said the whole time that super delegates were the enemy and the man and they were the system, and now he's trying to rely on them to save him. So, I think that's a little bit hypocritical. I mean, I love everybody, but that doesn't make any sense.
LEMON: All right. Matt, this is for you. This is what Bernie Sanders had to say there about the upcoming primaries. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE SANDERS, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And if he win California, and if we win South Dakota, and North Dakota, and Montana, and New Mexico, and New Jersey, well, I think we will be in the following week, do well in Washington, D.C. I think we will be marching into the democratic convention with an enormous amount of momentum. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, he says that, Van Jones said what he said. But even if she loses California she is still going to be the nominee. So, what happens to the momentum of her campaign then?
SCHLAPP: You know, as she says, she has math on her side. She had -- there is no joy, there is no embrace. This is ending with a thud. This is not love in unity, this is like we got to go with her, I guess.
And you know, I think it's got to be incredibly discouraging for her and dispiriting for her campaign that even as everybody in the Democratic Party realizes that she's the nominee, they won't even like give her a nice send-off into the convention. They're going to humiliate her.
[22:55:06] LEMON: You're stealing my question, because, listen. Here's what the conventional wisdom is, and with the math, the political mathematicians are saying, halfway through, you know, on Tuesday before the polls even close, she will have probably clenched the nomination.
But yet and still Bernie Sanders will still be in the race, it's kind of like happy birthday, but you can't blow out the candles. So, Maria.
CARDONA: You know what, and that's fine because at the end of the day, she will be the nominee. And we will have party unity, and Bernie Sanders supporters and Hillary Clinton supporters will work together, will take some time. You know, both candidates are going to have to do their part. Hillary Clinton is going to have to reach out to Bernie supporters, no question about that.
But I think what everyone's going to understand is that the biggest mobilizer and the biggest uniter for democrats is going to be the possibility of Donald Trump setting foot in the White House as commander-in-chief.
CARDONA: So, regardless of what happens in California, we will have party unity after Philadelphia and we will go on to win the White House.
LEMON: Are you going to -- is Donald Trump going to take some of those Bernie democrats?
SCHLAPP: Oh, yes.
LEMON: No. You say, oh yes.
SCHLAPP: Those union voters that care about their jobs. A lot will.
LEMON: Two of them are supporters. Van, is that -- Van, are you weighing in or at least you're going to make it a tie or no?
JONES: Look, I think that, I think that's overstated, but after the break, we can come back and fight about it some more, I bet.
LEMON: All right. Whatever. When we come right back -- and thanks, everyone. We're coming right back. The billionaire who questions whether Donald Trump is really worth as much as he says.
Plus, the debate rages after a child slips into a gorilla's enclosure and the gorilla is killed. Who's to blame and should the zoo, should zoo's I should say, excuse me, be banned?
[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)