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Hillary Clinton Earns Enough Delegate to Win Democratic Nomination; Clinton has Delegates to Clinch Nomination; Trump Orders Surrogates to Blast Judge; Trump Calls Man at Rally "My African- American"; Libertarian Party's Nominee for President; Muhammad Ali: Champion and Activist. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired June 6, 2016 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news, Hillary Clinton has 2,384 delegates. That's one more than she needs to clinch the Democratic nomination. But she and Bernie Sanders vow to fight for every last vote in the primaries that are now just hours away. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump says no apologies, no way. The Republican's presumptive nominee doubling down on his criticism of the Federal Judge hearing his Trump University case. And in a conference call, ordering his top surrogates to back him up. Is he playing the race card and could it cost him votes in the general election?
But I want to begin tonight with our breaking news. With that is CNN's Political Director, David Chalian. David, Hillary Clinton clinched the nomination tonight. How did CNN come to the conclusion ahead of tomorrow's primaries?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, Don, as you know, there are two different types of delegates in the Democratic system, pledged delegates that are awarded based on the results of primaries and caucuses all season long. You know we've been tracking those. And unpledged delegates, so-called superdelegates who are free agents, basically, and can choose to support whomever they want. They can change their mind right up until they cast their ballot on the convention floor in Philadelphia. But CNN has been tracking since last fall, all the superdelegates. Calling them, asking them, looking for public announcements of support. Who do you support? And we have been recording and reporting their support throughout this entire season.
Now with a combination of the pledged delegates in the primaries and caucuses thus far and of the superdelegates that CNN has reported out their support, we can confidently say that Hillary Clinton has secured enough delegates to clinch the Democratic nomination to become the presumptive Democratic nominee. You see there the split. She has 1812 pledged delegates, 572 superdelegates. That is compared to Bernie Sanders 1,521 pledged delegates and 47 superdelegates. It is important to note, Don, neither candidate, neither secretary Clinton nor senator Sanders could have won the nomination at this point without the help of superdelegates. Neither of them with pledged delegates alone would have gotten to that threshold. And as you know, superdelegates are 15 percent of the overall Democratic delegate universe. So this is where we are heading into the final primary day tomorrow with those six states remaining.
LEMON: Boy, it's going to be interesting to watch tomorrow, David, because California is a big state. They are still vying for it. They are both saying we still want people to get out and vote, people still have to vote. But David, Secretary Clinton is the first female candidate from a major party to do this. This is historic.
CHALIAN: Without a doubt. You'll remember eight years ago she said that she came close to breaking that final glass ceiling but fell just short, but she had 18 million cracks in it. Well, now she has shattered at least the first half of that glass ceiling and now she's got a five-month campaign to try to shatter the rest of it. But it is historic. First time a female candidate has been the presumptive nominee for a major political party in this country. It's something she actually noted over the weekend, no doubt. And in fact even though her campaign is trying to downplay crossing the threshold tonight, because they don't want to suppress any of those votes tomorrow. They want all of the supporters to show up. They are still at least fundraising off of this historic moment.
And so no doubt, tomorrow night when we hear from Secretary Clinton, this moment o4 history, this role that she represents as the first female presumptive nominee. And we say presumptive, Don, we should know, because these superdelegates certainly could change their mind between now and the convention. And if she fell below that threshold, she would no longer be the presumptive nominee. But there's no evidence that's happening and we'll report that out if it does, of course. But this moment of history is one that is not going to go unnoticed by the Clinton campaign.
LEMON: And we say the presumptive nominee on both sides as we have on every election cycle before this since CNN has existed. And we even before there was a 24-hour cable news. Here's the deal, we're reporting. This is the breaking news tonight on CNN, Hillary Clinton has earned the support of enough delegates to clinch the Democratic presidential nomination at the convention in July. That is according to CNN's delegate estimate counts, 2,384, one more than she needs to be the presumptive Democratic nominee. David, stand by. I want to bring in CNN's Brianna Keilar. She's with the Clinton campaign in Los Angeles. Hello again Brianna. Brianna joined us last hour. Some very different news to report this hour, Brianna. What are you hearing from the campaigns about secretary Clinton clinching the nomination tonight?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, they are walking a fine line. On one hand they sent out a fundraising e-mail to supporters saying, so this just happened. Also saying though, that the primary isn't quite over.
[23:05:00] So I think acknowledging this milestone, but also they're worried. They're worried that if their supporters, especially in California and New Jersey, the two big states where voters go to the polls tomorrow, if they think that this is a done deal, they are not going to come out and show their support. There's a bit of a tepid reaction. A statement coming from Hillary Clinton's campaign manager. You can here, he says, "This is an important milestone, but there are six states that are voting on Tuesday, with millions of people heading to the polls, and Hillary Clinton is working to earn every vote. We look forward to Tuesday night, when Hillary Clinton will clinch not only a win in the popular vote, but also the majority of pledged delegates." And I should tell you that our producer asked Hillary Clinton not one, not two, but seven times about this news and she didn't respond. She clearly heard the question and didn't respond.
On the flip side, Senator Sanders' campaign is saying. "It is unfortunate that the media and a rush to judgment, are ignoring the Democratic National Committee's clear statement that it is wrong to count the votes of superdelegates before they actually vote at the convention this summer." So it's still a pledge from him that he's going to take it all the way to the convention in late July.
LEMON: Brianna, he's going on -- and David, he's going on to say Secretary Clinton does not have and will not have the requisite number of pledged delegates to secure the nomination. She will be dependent on superdelegates who do not vote on July 25th and who can change their minds between now and then. And then he goes on for a few more things. David, as you said, they both are dependent on superdelegates.
CHALIAN: Yes, as well as, by the way, then Senator Obama eight years ago when he clinched the Democratic nomination and became the presumptive Democratic nominee, you know, this Tuesday in June eight years ago. He did so with a combination of pledged and superdelegates. The same thing that would happen for either Secretary Clinton or Senator Sanders. When they say that she can't win it on pledged delegates alone. The leave out the fact that neither can they. And listen, the other thing that is likely to happen tomorrow night -- and this is the strongest argument that Senator Sanders would have had in his pocket to make the superdelegates to change the support, is if she was not able to win a majority of the pledged delegates. If he was able to win a majority of pledged delegates, that would be a very powerful argument to superdelegates that they should follow the will of the voters. But it is likely at some point in the course of tomorrow evening, Don, that secretary Clinton is also going to become -- to have secured a majority of the pledged delegates. So it's just a difficult argument to make to superdelegates as to why they should abandon their support for Secretary Hillary Clinton.
LEMON: The breaking news on CNN is Secretary Hillary Clinton and former senator as well is now the presumptive Democratic nominee. I had this very smart question I wanted to ask you quickly Brianna. I don't know if it's so smart now or if you can really answer it but what can we expect tomorrow?
KEILAR: Well, that's the thing, is California is a bit of a nail biter. I was talking to sources familiar with what was going on in the Clinton campaign, certainly in their internal polling last week and they seem to feel that she had a bit of a margin. But it was certainly not a very comfortable margin in California. And the way California works, you have independent voters who can vote in the Democratic or Republican primaries. That's something that strikes a little fear into the hearts of those who support Hillary Clinton, because there's a worry that that can be advantageous to Bernie Sanders. He's done so well with independents.
New Jersey, her campaign feels pretty good about. There's also Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, and South Dakota. But the two big prizes that you're looking at tomorrow are New Jersey and California. California is huge, 475 delegates. She wants to win that. Because you can imagine, even if she has hit this all important number, if she loses a big prize like this, it doesn't project strength going into the general election against Donald Trump and that's what she wants to do.
LEMON: All right. Brianna and David, I want you to stay right there. I also want to bring in now Republican strategist, Kevin Madden and CNN Contributor, Bakari Sellers, a Hillary Clinton supporter. Hello, gentlemen, and welcome to the panel. Bakari, now that Hillary has become the presumptive nominee, do you think the Democrats are going to be able to come together and unite?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: There's no doubt that Democrats will come together and unite. Even before we get to anything that happens down the road and any talk about a convention or anything else, we have to sit back and take a breath and understand what today means. I mean, this is what Shirley Chisholm fought for. This is a long time coming. It's been over 200 years, and finally, in the United States of America, we have a woman who is going to lead the ticket of a major party. She came extremely close in 2008, and I think my good friends who are Democrats and Republicans alike, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton supporters, can take a moment and recognize the history. They will all be able to share with our daughters. My daughter is 11 years old and now I can tell her that she, too, can be the nominee for major party in this country and be president of the United States. It's an amazing feeling tonight, Don.
[23:10:00] LEMON: Kevin, what do you make of how things are going for Hillary versus Trump right now? Or I should say for Clinton versus Trump right now?
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Brianna's reporting, I think, says it all. This need to really balance this fine line and walk a tight rope between trying to promote the idea of inevitability, again trying to promote the idea that the party needs to come together. At the same time, not wanting to initiate a backlash from so many of the Bernie Sanders supporters who are very passionate about their guy and hate this idea of the Clinton campaign pushing the inevitability. So I think -- having been a campaign operative, even watching from the other side as a Republican, I do recognize that tough challenge right now, that the Clinton campaign has to not look like they are towel snapping even though they have this historical moment where their candidate is the likely presumptive nominee.
LEMON: Ok, so let me ask you this. This is there anything -- you remember 2008. We all covered this except for Bakari who was a baby then. We were all here on CNN -- when Bakari was in diapers -- talking about, you know, the presumptive nominee which was Barack Obama, the first African-American to possibly be the president of the United States. Regardless of our politics, this is a historic moment, Kevin Madden, that we are in a country that has gotten to the point where a woman can be the presumptive nominee of a major party. That says something.
MADDEN: It is. And the interesting point here is also to look at how much of an advantage that could potentially be in a general election when you're running against somebody like Donald Trump who has historically bad favorability ratings with women voters. So I think that is something that the Clinton campaign sees as an extraordinary opportunity. But let's also not forget there's another history here. We have two candidates that both have historically high negative ratings. Hillary Clinton has a big problem with male voters. Hillary Clinton has a problem with a lot of younger voters that she's going to need to solve before the general election. So while it is an historical moment, there are serious challenges ahead in a general election --
Madden: -- for Hillary Clinton.
LEMON: For both of them. You're right about that. David, who suffers the most at the polls if there's low turnout tomorrow? What if people say, you know, this is and they don't show up? I think both candidates are hoping or campaigns are hoping that that doesn't happen. Who suffers the most?
CHALIAN: Well, if Hillary Clinton is indeed going to be the nominee and we have her as the presumptive nominee now, you know, it would be to her detriment in the long run, for November when you're trying to mobilize as many voters as you possibly can, it's part of the reason why you see Donald Trump still out there campaigning in some of these primary states even though all of his competition has disappeared. It's an opportunity while you're still on the ballot and able to get out there and campaign and organize, collect phone numbers, collect e- mail addresses and information from folks that show up at events, to make sure that come November you're coming to get them out. So it would be a missed opportunity in some ways for the Clinton campaign, which is now obviously we're saying she's the presumptive nominee.
LEMON: So clearly she would suffer the most?
CHALIAN: But in terms of the actual results tomorrow night, I think it's unclear how turnout would impact that. Bernie Sanders was out saying today big turnout helps him. Lower turnout helps her. But again, as Brianna was saying, it's so close there in the big state of California it's hard to say how it would impact.
LEMON: Brianna Keilar, what are we expecting in terms of the president and in terms of an endorsement?
KEILAR: Well, today his spokesman, Josh Earnest, was asked about this and he said -- and this indicates perhaps it's coming sooner than you might think. He said people in New Jersey, California, of course, other states have to weigh in. The president isn't going to come out publicly until they do.
Well, that's tomorrow. So this could happen very quickly perhaps. That is the thinking. And you hear Bernie Sanders saying we're going all the way to the convention. Well, that is in a month and a half. Hillary Clinton today, her messaging was we need to be going into the convention unified and coming out of it unified. She's not so subtly saying to Bernie Sanders, if this is very clear, the writing is totally on the wall, you need to get out. If the president were to endorse, get behind Hillary Clinton, this is going to be pressure coming down on Bernie Sanders like a ton of bricks. So make no mistake, his campaign at this point, putting their heads together and trying to figure out how they are going to proceed.
LEMON: All right, so here it is. The breaking news, Hillary Clinton has clinched the Democratic nomination. She has the number of delegates need, 2,384. She has a number plus one needed to become the presumptive nominee. That is what CNN is reporting. That's our breaking news now.
[23:15:00] Thank you, everyone. I appreciate you joining me here. When we come back, Donald Trump doubles down on his criticism of the judge and the Trump University case, leaving top Republicans in turmoil tonight.
LEMON: We continue with our breaking news about Hillary Clinton clinching the nomination. There's also some turmoil in the GOP tonight over Donald Trump. Joining me now, Gregory Cheadle, he is the man Trump singled out at the rally over the weekend, calling him, "My African-American." Also joining me now, senior contributor, and Clinton supporter, Bakari Sellers and Bruce LeVell, Executive Director of the National Diversity Coalition for Trump.
So now that Hillary Clinton is the presumptive nominee, we've been talking a lot about this, the man who is going to help her and who has been helping her is her very own husband. So let's talk about Trump and race. Listen to what Bill Clinton said earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[23:20:00] BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And then there's this make America great again. Now look, folks, I am a white southern protestant. I know what make America great again means. I know. It is cold. It wasn't so good for African-American. It wasn't so good for first generation immigrants. It wasn't so good for members of many religious minorities and it was really not so good for the LGBT community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Bruce, what's your reaction?
BRUCE LEVELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION FOR TRUMP: What's the reaction to having her husband in -- it's actually going to benefit the -- our campaign.
LEMON: To his words, he's saying, I am a southern white protestant. I know what make America great again is. He says it's taking us back to a time that was not so good for our country. LEVELL: You mean as it relates to what he did with the Crime Bill that
put more, you know, African-Americans incarceration rate was one of the highest in the history of the nation? Is that what he's referring to?
LEMON: I'm asking you what you make of his comments.
LEVELL: Well, I don't -- you know, I don't think for his comment, you know -- you know, why America coming down on him for saying he's a white protestant or whatever, and that what he thinks makes America great again and, you know, where is all of the persecution with that comment?
SELLER: I think that Bill Clinton hit the nail on the proverbial head. I think when you have slogans, when people talk about making America great again, when you talk about taking our country back, Bill Clinton is right. The President of the United States is correct in saying that that is a tone. That is a conversation where people want to go back and they harken those old days. And when you hear Donald Trump speak, you can't help but to think of George Wallace. You can't help but to think of McCarthy. I mean, just the divisiveness, the tone. The way he treats people who look differently. And so yes, I don't want to go back to the days where the LGBT community was treated as second-class citizens, I don't want to go back to the days when my father had to fight just so he had those rights. America is a great country now. We have an African-American president and Donald Trump has a problem with that, I'm sure.
LEMON: I want to bring in Gregory now. I want you to listen to what Donald Trump said at a rally last week about a black supporter at one of his rallies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had a case where we had an African-American guy who was a fan of mine. Great fan. Great guy. In fact, I want to find out what's going on with him. You know what I'm -- look at my African-American over here. Look at him. Are you the greatest? You know what I'm talking about?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Gregory, you are that supporter who Trump singled out but you say you weren't offended by his comment. Do you understand why some people were?
GREGORY CHEADLE, MAN TRUMP CALLED "MY AFRICAN-AMERICAN": Well, first of all, you're calling me a Trump supporter. I went there with an open mind. For some reason, you know, a black person goes somewhere they are not supposed to go, we're a supporter. Nevertheless, I understand when people look at the --
LEMON: Wait. I just -- I don't mean to be presumptuous here.
CHEADLE: No problem.
LEMON: You don't support Donald Trump?
CHEADLE: No. I went there as someone looking to see what he had to say. I never seen -- I've never seen the man. I just wanted to hear what he had to say.
LEMON: OK. And so you were not offended by it, correct?
CHEADLE: No, if you listen to it again, he said he had a great fan and then he pointed at me and then he said, aren't you the greatest? How in the world can I take offense at someone who is calling me the greatest?
LEMON: You understand why we would presume that you're a fan, because he said, someone who is a great supporter, someone who likes me. That would presume that you're a fan of Donald Trump and a supporter.
CHEADLE: Well, you have to understand, Mr. Trump has a knack for entertaining. Everybody at this particular event, everyone was happy. We were having a good time. It was not a racially charged crowd. We were just having a good time and we just got caught up in the moment. There was no hostility whatsoever.
LEMON: So no offense to his words, again, I just want to make that clear.
CHEADLE: No offense, no.
LEMON: Do you understand why some people were offended by that? Because quite frankly, when everyone in this room, when he said that, everyone just sort of gasped. Why on earth would he say something like that?
Well, you know, we're in a racially sensitive area but if you want to go to the, my comment with respect to property, you know, you have to realize it was a Democrat Supreme Court that ruled that blacks were property. It was the Democrats who fought against anti-lynching laws. It was the Democrats who fought against anti-fugitive laws. If anybody is going to take possession of ownership of black people, that's what the Democrats are doing.
LEMON: How long ago was this?
Sellers: That's not the same party. That's a different time. And if you want to talk about the Republican Party of today.
CHEADLE: Has the Democratic party changed its name? Has the Democrat party changed its name?
LEMON: One at a time.
CHEADLE: They changed their habits. They still talk about the things that they are doing and they've changed? Where?
Sellers: If you want to go back to when the pivot happens, it's when the Republican Party utterly rejected the Civil Rights Act.
CHEADLE: When did that happen?
[23:25:00] Sellers: The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Actually, Mitch McConnell, whose majority leader of the United States of America, actually came out this week when he was chastising Donald Trump and he said that, this moment, this moment where Donald Trump is being so divisive with Hispanics harkens back to the time when Republicans, they just turned their back on the civil rights community and turned their backs on the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. And because you're having that moment you can't sit here and say that somehow the Republican Party is the party for inclusiveness or diversity.
CHEADLE: I'm not saying any party is a party of inclusiveness. Blacks have been out of the system with both parties. Both parties have turned their backs on black folk and especially the Democrat Party.
SELLERS: You should tell that to Barack Obama.
CHEADLE: It was Teddy Kennedy who called black judicial appointments, Neanderthals. So was that before after --
SELLERS: I'm happy we're having this discussion tonight, because eight years ago we nominated who ended up being the first African-American president in the history of this country. And tonight we stand on history again nominating the person who is going to be the first female president in the history of this country. The Republican party has a candidate, has someone who wants to take America back to a place that was some of our darkest times and darkest hours and, I'm sorry, I hope we all stand up against xenophobia, bigotry and racism.
CHEADLE: I hope we do too.
LEMON: Here we go. Bruce, go ahead Bruce.
Look, we are 5 1/2 million votes, Mr. Sellers. The people are speaking about this.
LEVELL: Here we go xenophobic and -- look here -- we are 5.5 million votes ahead, Mr. Sellers, 5.5 million votes. After tomorrow we'll be over 6.5 million votes. The people are speaking about this. You know, Donald Trump -- in terms of -- he has set the record. He has brought more votes in the history of our party and, by the way, you know, if you think that setting something back by wanting national security and protecting our borders and creating jobs and challenging the system as it relates to bringing off all of the offshore companies back to the United States, you call that going backwards, sir? I mean, really?
SELLERS: No, what I call going -- you want to know specifically what I call going backwards? What I call going backwards is saying that you're going to ban Muslins from coming into this country. Muslins who fight and die for this country every day in our United States military. What I'm calling going backwards is the disrespect and disregard for Hispanics-Americans and immigrants coming to this country. And yes I don't have to stand for that. LEVELL: I disagree. Sir, it's respectfully -- it is the illegal
immigration that comes in this nation, that's the challenge that Mr. Trump has always put on the table. That's what the party has always been about. It's the law. It is the law.
LEMON: That's the last word. Bruce, thank you, Gregory, I promise you'll get more next time you come on. You'll get more time to speak.
CHEITAL: You guys are a lively bunch. I appreciate it.
LEMON: Thank you, Gregory. Thank you, Bakari. Thank you, Bruce. I appreciate all of you.
When we come right back, he's running for president and his name is not Trump, Clinton or Sanders. Wait until you hear what he has to say about his opponents.
[23:31:00] LEMON: Democrats and Republicans have their presumptive nominees and the Libertarian Party has their nominee. No need for presumptive, he is the nominee. And he is Gary Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico and he joins me now. It must feel really good, you're the nominee, you're not the presumptive nominee.
GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, that was a pivotal deal and my vice presidential running mate is Bill Weld who has always been a political idol of mine. Both of us Republican governors in heavily blue states, well, what is that at the end -- what does that mean? Well, we're fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
LEMON: I want to get your reaction then to our breaking news tonight that Hillary Clinton is the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party. What do you think?
JOHNSON: Well it is something that I've expected and I think one of the pivotal points is going to be Bernie Sanders getting out of this race. And I want to make a pitch to everybody that's watching this right now to get on the website isidewith.com, take the political quiz and find out which presidential candidate you most align yourself with. And then knock yourself out supporting that candidate.
For me, I side with myself 99 percent of the time but next in line, which I really find interesting, is Bernie Sanders at 73 percent. Bernie and I obviously come to a "T" in the road when it comes to economics, big government versus small government. Hey, on the social side, marriage equality, women's right to choose, legalizing marijuana, hey, crony capitalism is alive and well. Government I think can really level the playing field make equality a reality, and hey, stop the military interventions.
LEMON: Governor, I think what the polls show the ones that do the comparisons, it shows that you would actually peel votes away from Secretary Clinton and so do you think that you'll get Bernie Sanders supporters? Are you appealing to Bernie Sanders supporters? JOHNSON: Well, I'm just trying to offer an objective way for Bernie
Sanders supporters to actually see if that connection exists. I'm sure that the same connection that exists for me with Bernie is going to exist for then with me, I think it will be a surprise.
LEMON: Let's move on now. I want to talk about this controversy that Donald Trump is facing tonight. In your Facebook live chat earlier you said the comments about Judge Curiel are nothing short of racist. He says they are not. Why is he wrong?
JOHNSON: Well, look, he said 100 things that would disqualify any presidential candidate up until this point in history but just turn the page and it will be 106 by tomorrow. When he started off talking about the deportation about 11 million illegal immigrants, that's just crazy. That is uninformed.
[23:35:01] When he talks about building a fence across the border, that is just horrible. When he says that Mexicans are murders and rapists, that's absolutely untrue. They are more law abiding than U.S. citizens. When he says that immigrants are taking jobs that U.S. citizens would have, that's not true. They are taking jobs that U.S. citizens don't want.
It's not an issue of lower pay unless it's an issue of language and they are the first ones that recognize this. We should embrace immigration and we should make it as easy as possible for someone that wants to come into this country and work to be able to get a work visa. A work visa should entail a background check and a social security card so taxes get paid.
Make that line moving. In New Mexico, if he's talking about cracking down on 11 million illegal immigrants, is that going to be a house-to- house deal by the federal government and when New Mexico is 50 percent Hispanic, the federal government, are they going to be asking for papers? It's going to be a horrible situation and, like I say, it's very misinformed. His statements on the judge in California, calling him a Mexican, it's incendiary. It's racist.
LEMON: Yeah. If you couldn't win, who would you vote for? Would you vote for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton?
JOHNSON: Well, luckily, Don, the Libertarian Party has always had a nominee since 1971 and I've self-identified myself as a libertarian since that time so there would always be that alternative. That's the alternative I would have to go with.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Governor Johnson. I really appreciate it. Come back any time. I enjoy having you. Thank you.
JOHNSON: Thank you very much.
LEMON: When we come right back, Donald Trump doubling down on his criticism of the judge in the Trump University case and ordering his surrogates to do the same. We'll discuss that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:40:58] LEMON: I guarantee you this is going to be a great conversation because there is a very cantankerous Bernie Sanders supporter, here with me now, Scottie Nell Hughes, a Trump supporter who was on this call this morning with Donald Trump.
Also Congressman Eric Swalwell, a California Democrat who is supporting Hillary Clinton. Republican strategist Kevin Madden, and Johnathan Tasini, as I said a Bernie Sanders surrogate who is the author of "The Essential Bernie Sanders and His Vision for America."
He challenged Hillary Clinton in the primary contest for a Senate seat in New York in 2006. I'm going to start with you. Now that I know you hate these words, that Hillary Clinton has clinched the nomination. You say it's inaccurate.
JOHNATHAN TASINI, AUTHOR, "THE ESSENTIAL BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS VISION FOR AMERICA": Not true.
LEMON: Hang on, Johnathan. In every single election when someone reaches the number of delegates to clinch the nomination, it has been said by every single news outlet that they are the presumptive nominee and they have clinched the nomination. Why is this different for Bernie Sanders this time? Why are you changing the definition of what it means to become the presumptive nominee?
TASINI: Because my friend, Don, even the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, says that it is not right to use the superdelegates in the count. This, to me, is the lowest --
LEMON: Without superdelegates --
TASINI: Hold on --
LEMON: People are always yelling at us, why don't you fact check this. Both are dependent on superdelegates. If Bernie Sanders didn't have superdelegates, he would not be where he is now as well.
TASINI: No. Here are the facts. Neither of the two candidates will have enough pledged delegates at the end of -- and I should say on December 14th, the District of Columbia people get to vote and they would like to have their say in this primary. Nobody will have enough pledged delegates. This will only be decided at the convention when the superdelegates stand up along with the pledged delegates and vote.
The pledged delegates are pledged to someone. The superdelegates are not. Now, it is true and Bernie Sanders has said this very clearly and I have said this as well, his other supporters have, it's a steep hill for us to climb. There are 50 days between June 7th and the convention. We have to make the plea to the delegates, based on the polling that shows us in a better position to defeat Donald Trump for lots of reasons which we can talk about, that we are the strongest candidate in the general election. And we acknowledge it's tough but let me finish --
LEMON: Quickly I have other guests and limited amount of time. Go ahead. TASINI: It is not true to say that Hillary Clinton has clinched the nomination. It's factually not true and it's based on the DNC --
LEMON: According to you.
TASINI: Now, according to the DNC, my friend.
LEMON: OK. According to CNN, she is the presumptive nominee and has clinched enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. Representative, what do you say to that and how do you represent to Mr. Tasini here?
ERIC SALWELL, CONGRESSPERSON CALIFORNIA: It's exciting to hear, Don, but we know tomorrow's contests in six states are very important and the Clinton campaign is not looking past those. What's more important, though, is looking towards November and taking the energy from the Sanders supporters, which I don't think can be overlooked and won't be overlooked, especially among millennials.
I lead a group in the House that has reached out to millennials across the country and they are excited and they are going to show up in November and I think the Clinton campaign is going to do everything they can to make sure they understand that the issue most important to millennials, student loan debt and college affordability, the choice is going to be between Secretary Clinton who is going to make sure you have affordable college. And scam artist is being sued right now for the only effort he's ever made to try and educate students.
LEMON: So Kevin do you think she can get enough of those Sanders vote on her side to appeal to the voters that the Representative is talking about?
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, I think, look, Hillary Clinton needs two really big things if she's going to go into the general election with a united Democratic Party. The first is, she's going to need a really good convention. I think one of the big problems that she has had in the past is that she's been the one making the process argument. Now I think the role has flipped.
[23:45:00] LEMON: I think Bernie Sanders supporters -- Jonathan, you're making a very convincing one -- are still caught making a process argument.
TASINI: Thank you, Kevin, I'm not sure I want a Republican complimenting me. That will hurt me on my side of the street, Kevin.
MADDEN: I think the last part of this is President Obama. President Obama being able to rally certain parts of the Democratic party behind Hillary Clinton will be really important for him. So I think those two ingredients are things to watch in the coming weeks.
LEMON: Listen, anything can happen until the convention.
TASINI: That's absolutely true.
LEMON: I'm just saying, we're not doing anything different than we've done, everyone is. But hang on. I want to get Scottie in here. Scottie, as an American woman, you must be thrilled this evening.
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I'm absolutely thrilled and I want to say bravo,
LEMON: That was sarcasm by the way.
HUGHES: I know and I am sarcastically going back but I mean, bravo Democrats, once again, a couple weeks ago all of the Republicans were starting to get behind Donald Trump and we looked like we were the calm put together party. Democrats right now, you know, tonight have absolutely shown that are actually just as splintered and tomorrow people have to realize this is not the same race that was happening in 2008 when Barak Obama.
Hillary Clinton graciously bowed out because she wanted to run again in the future. Bernie Sanders, this is his last hoorah and I think he is really going to stick his feet in and he's going to continue to be as stubborn and take it all the way to the convention which on behalf of the Trump campaign, we applaud and completely agree that you should continue.
LEMON: Representative Swalwell, you've spoken a lot, go ahead, Representative Swalwell.
SWALWELL: Don, to put it in perspective, the history of what we're going to see tomorrow night after six states support Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton's mother Dorothy, when she was born, would not have been able to vote for a woman because women cannot vote. Tomorrow and in November, Chelsea Clinton will be able to vote for the first women president. That is historic and should not be lost and I think that's going to excite young people and move them into the polls.
LEMON: It is historic.
TASINI: Let me say quickly two things. One is, we're all going to be focused on defeating Donald Trump. And number two, it's not just about Bernie Sanders. This is about the political revolution. One reason people have stuck with Bernie. And wanted to carry this forward, this is a different version of what this country should be for and what the Democratic Party should --
LEMON: Thank you very much.
SWALWELL: I think we just found unity, Don.
LEMON: Yes, there it is right there, right here on CNN Tonight with Don Lemon.
Coming up, Muhammad Ali transcended sports standing up for what he believed even when his opinions were not popular. I'm going to talk to two men who knew the champ.
[23:51:18] LEMON: Muhammad Ali was the heavyweight champion of the world and arguably the greatest of all time, but he was also a man who stood up for his beliefs no matter the cost. Joining me now, two film- makers, both friends of Muhammad Ali, Keya Morgan and Leon Isaac Kennedy. Good to see both of you. Don.
Good to have both of you on. You both knew Muhammad Ali, could each of you share one of your favorite stories with him? First, you, Leon and then Keya Morgan.
LEON ISAAC KENNEDY, FILM MAKER: I'll go to a story that stays in my mind. The night he took the terrible beating from Larry Holmes and I was in tears because if you loved Ali, you hated to see him take that type of beating. The referee really should have stopped that fight.
But any rate, later that night, the hotel room was dark. The only two people in the hotel room were Ali and myself and we were just sitting there not saying too much of anything. About an hour later a knock came on the door. Ali said would you get the door? It was Larry Holmes, Don, and he came in and said, champ, I just wanted to come in and pay my respects and he leaned over and kissed Ali on the forehead.
He said, if this was even five years ago, I wouldn't have won tonight. You're still the greatest of all time. And Ali being Ali said, thank you, man, thank you so much. And when Larry was leaving, just before he got to the door, Ali said, Larry, one more thing, Larry said, what's that, champ? Ali said, I want Holmes! I want Holmes! He had that wonderful personality even on a night like that.
LEMON: Oh, wow. That's a great story. What about you?
KEYA MORGAN, FILM MAKER: I was very blessed to be close to his family including his ex-wife. One memory I can't forget is two days after 9/11, as a survivor of 9/11 attacks I was with Ali two days after it. And I was telling him how it was to run from the collapse of the World Trade Center and just the -- his energy, the incredible energy he had, this aura around him of love and peace in a world filled with hate and anger was incredible. And the things he said and he said it's our job to unite the world and to bring everyone together.
And I think no one in history did a better job than Muhammad Ali to unite 1.6 billion Muslims, blacks, whites, Jews, Christians, everyone together. I would argue that he actually did a better job in civil rights than Dr. King and Malcolm X combined because he would reach over to everyone in Africa. He could reach over to 1.6 billion Muslims. He could reach over to the whole world whereas Dr. King really was in the United States. So I would say he was an incredible civil rights leader, also.
LEMON: He really stood his ground not only in the ring but when it came to what he believed in. He refused to go fight in Vietnam and cost him his heavyweight title. This is how he described it at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUHAMMAD ALI: My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, some darker people, some poor, hungry people in the mud for big powerful America and shoot them for what? They never called me nigger. They never lynched me. They didn't put no dogs on me. They didn't rob me of my nationality. Rape and kill my mother and father. Shoot them for what? Why I've got to go shoot them? Little poor little black people, little babies and children and women. How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:55:00] LEMON: He said what was on his mind. He actually used a word there. If he hadn't done that, meaning refusing to go to Vietnam, Leon, would he be remembered differently than he is now? Would he have had as much of an impact on the world?
KENNEDY: No, he wouldn't of, because you know, Don, he was in about 32 years he went from being one of the most reviled and in my opinion misunderstood athletes in the world, to 32 years later being the most revered, loved personalities in the world. And it's because of the type of stands and the type of convictions that he took.
He didn't just say something. He put his whole life on the line. Nobody knew if he was going to be able to ever come back when they stripped him of those 3 1/2 years. And by the way, those were 3 1/2 of his peak years as an athlete. So, no, he would not have been remembered the same.
People say he was controversial. I say the times were controversial. He was controversial to say I'm not going to put up with certain things, but I think it was the Jim Crow laws of segregation that were controversial. When black people were ashamed and had low self-esteem, he stood up and said, I'm black and I'm beautiful. Was he controversial? No. I think the rest of the world just finally caught up.
LEMON: Keya, I understand -- I have a very short time here but you heard from his wife in the hospital on the day that he died?
MORGAN: Yes, yes, I mean, very sad, very unfortunate and, you know, it's -- but I just wanted to say, let's not forget that Muhammad Ali is the ultimate American dream. His mother was a maid, he's the great grandson of a slave and he rose up to be the most famous and most incredible, majestic, most fantastic person I have ever met. And it was just an incredible, incredible honor to know him. And let's just forget the most pretty.
LEMON: Yes, and he was the prettiest. Thank you I have to go because we are out of time. And remember he was an activist and also raised a lot of money, especially for Parkinson's and other issues. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
MORGAN: Thank you, don. God bless you. Take care.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
LEMON: That's it for us, thanks for watching tonight. "AC360" starts right now.