Return to Transcripts main page


Republican Strategist's Clinton Confession; Mexican Leaders Hit Back at Trump; Venezuela Approves First Step for Maduro Referendum; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 8, 2016 - 14:00   ET




CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: Hillary Clinton smashing ceilings and putting her best foot forward against Donald Trump.


HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When he says let's make America great again, that is code for, "Let's take

America backwards."

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Even a Republican confesses to being caught up in a historic moment for both parties.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN COMMENTATOR: I think my party has been taken hostage by Donald Trump.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Plus, after enduring months of abuse from Donald Trump, the Mexican foreign minister fires back.

CLAUDIA RUIZ MASSIEU, MEXICAN SECRETARY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: We are essential for their prosperity, as they are for ours, so we are part of the

solution. We are not the problem.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): And staying in Latin America, my interview with the opposition who's gunning for Venezuela's strongman.



AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

After 240 years of American history, finally the first lady.


AMANPOUR (voice-over): After a blockbuster day wrapping up the primary season, Hillary Clinton has claimed the Democratic nomination and she's

paid tribute to the woman who instilled her with passion: her own mother.

CLINTON: And she taught me never to back down from a bully, which, it turns out, was pretty good advice.


CLINTON: This past Saturday would have been her 97th birthday, because she was born on June 4th, 1919. And some of you may know the significance of

that date.

On the very day my mother was born in Chicago, Congress was passing the 19th Amendment to the Constitution.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): The amendment that gave women the right to vote.

Even Republicans 'fessed up to the emotion of this moment.

GOP strategist Ana Navarro, who worked on Jeb Bush's campaign, tweeted, "Thought woman thing wouldn't mean much to me but, yes, feel something I

can't quite articulate, seeing first woman nominee."

When I spoke to Ana earlier, she told me that Trump is so awful that she would consider voting for Hillary but only if Hillary earned her vote.



AMANPOUR: Ana, welcome to our studio, all the way over there from CNN across the water. Good to see you.

NAVARRO: Thank you, Christiane. Good to be with you.

AMANPOUR: So let me ask you about the confession that you tweeted today.

How do you feel from your position across the aisle from Hillary?

NAVARRO: You know, I think there are things in politics and life that cut through partisan lines. And I will tell you I've been critical of Hillary

Clinton for the way she has used "the woman thing," for lack of a better term.

I thought in 2008, she didn't embrace it enough. She let the historical moment escape her. But in 2016, it's been very much in our face, it's been

very much part of this campaign.

But yesterday, last night, when I saw her walk out on stage, she's not the candidate that I would support, she's not the candidate that I would pick.

But she broke a glass ceiling and I will tell you that I did feel a stirring of emotion yesterday when I saw that, because it's that -- you

know, it's that stirring of emotion, that feeling you get when you realize you are witnessing history.

And I think it's important to put it in perspective because a lot of times for women my age and younger, it means less maybe than it does for the

generations that preceded us.

And I think that it's out of respect for those generations that preceded us, that had to fight so hard, that had to struggle so hard, some of whom

did not have the right to vote, that are women that are still alive today, I think that in respect for them, we have got to recognize the historical

moment and its significance.

AMANPOUR: Well, you have really spoken eloquently about this and it comes at a time where it's right in the middle of yet of another brouhaha, a very

ugly brouhaha over --


AMANPOUR: -- Donald Trump. And you say she's not your candidate.

But is Trump your candidate after this, you know, basically, for want of a better word, peeing all over an American judge of Hispanic origin?

You saw what the leader of your party, Paul Ryan, said about that, that it's the definition of a racist statement.

We have Senator Kirk, who has now said, I cannot and will not support my party's nominee for president, regardless of the political impact on my

candidacy or on the Republican Party.

How do you feel today about your party?

NAVARRO: Well, look, I think my party has been taken hostage by Donald Trump. Let's remember that Donald Trump was not a Republican until a few

years ago. He has been everything but a Republican and I just don't think he is a representative of the Republican values.

I am deeply offended, deeply offended by his comment. It is yet one more stripe on the zebra. He has been saying offensive comments about women,

about POWs, about the disabled, about Hispanics, about Mexicans, about -- you know, just name the group, since he started this.

And to my great disappointment since becoming the nominee, instead of becoming a bigger person, a presidential candidate, he has stayed that

small, petty person who continues the politics of personal attacks, not only against his opponent but also against groups of Americans.

I will not support a candidate who pits one group of Americans against another. I will not support a candidate who dares question the

qualifications of a judge because of where that judge's parents were born.

That to me is just unconscionable. I don't think you can be a little bit pregnant. I can't say that his comments were racist but that he is not

racist. I will say his comments were racist because he is racist. He may not realize he's racist but he is racist nonetheless.

And I have to live with myself, Christiane. I have to look at myself in the mirror and I'm an American first. And I tell you that I think that in

order to rescue the Republican Party, which I think is very important for our democracy, Republicans must speak out.

AMANPOUR: All Republicans are not speaking out. In fact, they're hedging their bets at the highest levels, whether it's Paul Ryan, who said that

that was the definition of a racist comment, but -- he went "but," you know, he's better than Hillary.

Whether it's Mitch McConnell, the leader of the Senate, the Republican leader of the Senate.

At what cost, Ana?

NAVARRO: Christiane, this isn't easy. It is an excruciating decision and an excruciating process for many Republicans.

You know, let's wait and see what happens in the next four to five months as this continues. I think that what you continue to see from Donald Trump

is this kind of rhetoric, divisive rhetoric, ugly ugliness that he's bringing out.

I think you're going to see that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are not going to be out there campaigning with him, are not going to be out there

anywhere near him.

AMANPOUR: I just want to quote in this regard, Lindsey Graham, yet another senior American senator who is a Republican, who is urging Republican

leaders who have already backed Trump to rescind their endorsements and he basically said, if anyone is looking for an off-ramp, he said this is

probably it.

He said, "There will come a time when the love of country will trump the hatred of Hillary."

Does that time come for you?

Will you vote for Hillary or will you sit on your hands?

NAVARRO: Well, first of all, let me just say, I don't hate Hillary. I just don't. I don't question her motives. I disagree with her on policy

and I have questions about her ethics. I have questions about the blurred lines when it comes to politics, philanthropy and business for the


Listen, Christiane, I don't want to vote for Hillary by default. I don't want to vote for Hillary Clinton because she is not Donald Trump. That is

not -- that's so basist to me, it's not justification for me not to vote for the Republican and switch my vote to the Democrat.

Can she earn my vote?

Certainly she can. And she's got five months to go to try to do that. And I think there's a lot of Republicans who are in that same spot, who do not

want to vote for Donald Trump, can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton. But she can earn the vote.

AMANPOUR: Ana Navarro, you have made some incredibly important comments. Thank you so much for joining us. The whole world is watching this.

NAVARRO: Thank you, mi amiga.

AMANPOUR: Thank you.


AMANPOUR: Now Donald Trump's Mexican bashing and his vows to build a wall across the border on Mexico's dime have really rattled the country's

leaders, current and past.


FELIPE CALDERON, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: Mexican people, we are not going to pay any single cent for such a stupid wall.

VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: I declare, I'm not going to pay for that (INAUDIBLE) wall. He should pay for it. He's got the money.


ENRIQUE PENA NIETO, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO (through translator): These expressions of this strident rhetoric has only actually led to very fateful

scenarios in the history of humanity. That's how Mussolini came to be. That's how Hitler came to be.


AMANPOUR: Well, earlier, I spoke to Mexico's foreign minister, Claudia Ruiz Massieu, who insists that her country is the solution, not the problem

for America. And she hits back at what she calls unconscionable myths.


AMANPOUR: Foreign minister, welcome to our program from Mexico City.

MASSIEU: Hello, Christiane. It's a pleasure to be with you.

AMANPOUR: Let me first ask you about this historic moment, the first woman of a major political party in the United States to win the nomination for


How does that strike you?

MASSIEU: Well, it strikes me in -- on many levels. As a woman, as a woman public servant, as a politician, it is indeed a very important moment for

democracy worldwide, for women's rights worldwide.

Hillary Clinton is a great inspiration to women all over the world and we will be watching closely how she does. But as of today, it is a historical

moment and a moment of pride for women everywhere.

AMANPOUR: And it must be a moment where you actually hope that she's going to win, given who her opponent is and what he's been saying about your

country and relations between the two countries.

Obviously the famous, "I'm going to build a wall," Mexican immigrants are rapists and murders.

What is your fear, what will happen to Mexico, do you think, if Donald Trump were to win?

MASSIEU: Well, Christiane, as Mexico's secretary of foreign affairs, we have a policy of not commenting on electoral processes from other

countries. But we do have a policy and a responsibility to speak up when people, no matter who they are or where they are, attack and disparage our


We have been very firm in condemning the rhetoric that talks about our community in the United States and about our country through a prism of

bigotry, of intolerance and of misinformation.

Mexico and the United States have a strong relationship, a mutually beneficial relationship. And the Mexican immigrant community in the United

States contributes every day, with their hard and honest work, to the prosperity of the United States.

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister, if I might read, you just have been in the United States and you gave a major speech there. And you basically said,

people, we are most definitely not the problem. We are part of the solution.

You said you wanted to bust the myth that we do not steal jobs from the United States.

How desperate are you to get that message across?

And are you getting it across, do you think?

MASSIEU: Well, it is an important message, Christiane, because it has to do, first of all, with reality and facts.

The work of the immigrant community in the United States of Mexican origin creates and sustains 8 percent of the United States GDP.

And our bilateral commercial relationship is responsible for generating and sustaining 6 million U.S. jobs.

So in order for the United States to remain competitive and to continue to create better conditions for the American people, it is essential that

Mexico and the United States keep working together on building those conditions.

We are essential for their prosperity, as they are for ours. So we are part of the solution, we are not the problem.

And when you attack this relationship and our community in the United States, when you talk without information about our contribution to the

development and growth of the United States, you are wrong, you ignore the facts and you open up the space for intolerance, bigotry and violence to


AMANPOUR: What about the idea of immigration in terms of numbers?

As you know, Donald Trump and, in fact, many Republicans have talked about being overwhelmed by illegals and all of that kind of stuff, in very

disparaging terms.

Today it seems there's a net outflow of Hispanics and Mexicans from the United States.

MASSIEU: That is correct. The immigration dynamics have changed significantly in the past years. Mexican immigration toward the United

States has reached net zero a couple of years ago and, in fact, it's starting to become negative.

We are receiving more Mexicans coming back to Mexico than Mexicans going to the United States.


MASSIEU: We are also working together with the United States and with countries in Central America to address the root causes of migration

because we know that, in order for us as a region to better face the challenges that migration flows pose, we have to work together with assured

responsibility approach.

And we have to focus not only on managing security of the flows but in addressing the root causes that have people migrating from one country to

another. We have to work together.

AMANPOUR: Well, in that regard, I know you don't want to get involved in the internal political dynamics but Donald Trump has said that he would

tear up the NAFTA agreement.

What effect would that have for Mexico and the United States?

And, in fact, do you think it's possible?

MASSIEU: Well, Christiane, what we think is that it would be a terrible mistake because NAFTA has created millions of jobs throughout the whole

region. This is a view of large, we know, a large majority of the American people.

In Washington, I had the opportunity to meet with very prominent Republican congressmen, such as Paul Ryan, senators, a bipartisan group of senators.

And they all agreed that Mexico is a valued and strategic partner.

AMANPOUR: On that note, Foreign Minister Claudia Ruiz Massieu, thank you so much indeed for joining me.

MASSIEU: Thank you, Christiane.


AMANPOUR: And when we come back, staying in Latin America, they call him a bully and they have him in their sights: Venezuela's president, Nicolas


I'll talk to the opposition leader about getting closer to a recall amidst an unprecedented economic and social meltdown there.

But first, Lady Gaga is going gaga over Hillary, too.

"Vote for the first woman," she says.

"Make America rock 'n' roll."




AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

Venezuela's opposition has cleared a major obstacle today in his effort to oust President Nicolas Maduro after the country's electoral board agreed

with more than 1.3 million signatures calling for his removal.

The opposition leader, Henrique Capriles, lost a close election to Maduro in 2013 and now he tells me the shortages of everything from food,

medicine, electricity and the sky-high inflation means it is time for Maduro to go.


AMANPOUR: Henrique Capriles, welcome from Caracas.

Are you surprised and do you believe that you will be victorious now that the national election board has said that the recall referendum can go


HENRIQUE CAPRILES, MIRANDA STATE GOVERNOR (through translator); It's very important that you understand and that you get to know that the recall vote

is a constitutional right, which has to be done this year.

We are trying to work through all of the obstacles that the government is proposing or imposing on us. But more than 80 percent of Venezuelans want

a change and I am completely confident in the force that the Venezuelan people have to impose that change in the worst crisis that it has lived

through in its entire history.

AMANPOUR: You have managed to overcome some obstacles --


AMANPOUR: -- but you have a lot of steps to go in terms of getting the millions of people you need to be able to recall President Maduro.

What makes you think you will be successful?

Remember Hugo Chavez went through a recall back in 2004 and he won that process.

CAPRILES (through translator): The situation with Venezuela cannot be compared with what happened 12 years ago. The recall vote was in 2004 with

President Chavez. But it was a completely different Venezuela.

It's very important that you understand that and that the world knows that Venezuela has the highest inflation in the world. Venezuela has the

greatest shortages in the world.

Now the majority of the Venezuelans want a change and that's how we are demonstrating, in the last elections, to be able to elect a new assembly.

I have complete confidence in the Venezuelan people -- not in the government of Maduro, obviously.

I think that we are not only going to win the recall vote but we are going to change Venezuela.

AMANPOUR: Mr. Capriles, as you know, the president has instituted a state of emergency. The military, I believe, is on his side.

Do you fear that the military might step in to keep President Maduro in power?

CAPRILES (through translator): Look, I have a very big worry in -- while we're making this interview, here in Venezuela there are small social

explosions that are taking place. We're talking about 20 social explosions that are taking place.

Those are a product of the hunger that is being lived here in this country.

Look, I think that the military forces in our country are very divided. The soldiers are living through the same crisis. The majority of them are

poor, from the popular sectors. They are affected by the crisis.

So that you know, one policeman or one military guard or one member of the military who earns $30 a month and the cost to be able to support their

family, it comes up to about $200.

That is why I have confidence that, given the situation of our -- the situation that Venezuela is going through, that when it comes to the moment

to make a decision, that it's going to come to a military force that will be supporting the constitution of Venezuela and will permit the celebration

of the recall vote.

AMANPOUR: Mr. Capriles, your neighbors, neighboring countries, are obviously looking at this very, very closely. You have a lot of support

from the -- most of the Organization of American States, including the leader.

I spoke to the Argentinian foreign minister, who says that there should be dialogue to resolve this between you, the opposition, and President Maduro.

Is that a possibility?

Do you think you can resolve this situation through dialogue?

CAPRILES (through translator): Christiane, how much I would love that Venezuela would have a dialogue. That is what should happen.

But in Venezuela, that dialogue of culture has been destroyed. You don't have politics in Venezuela in that manner in over 20 years. There's a

generation here that does not even understand or know what dialogue is.

And that's why we're insisting in the election so that the people can decide by way of their vote. This is a government that has tired in

insisting in not having a dialogue. They want to stomp on the people.

We hope that we can be able to open a space where dialogue can take place but that does not mean that we're not going to negotiate the recall vote;

we're not going to negotiate what is in the constitution. No one has the right to negotiate the rights of the Venezuelan people that are included in

the constitution.

And one of these is the recall vote.

AMANPOUR: Henrique Capriles, thank you so much for joining me from Caracas.

CAPRILES (through translator): Thank you. And it has been a pleasure to be able to talk to you.


AMANPOUR: And next, we imagine a world of something fishy going on at Oxford University. Find out which aquatic creatures have a higher IQ than

we thought -- after this.





AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, imagine a world in spitting distance of a major scientific breakthrough.


AMANPOUR (voice-over): Now this amazing video showed the tropical archerfish's extraordinary ability to spit its prey out of the sky. And

until today, that is all we knew.

But now scientists at Oxford and Queensland Universities are finding that they're fish of many talents, discovering that they can recognize human


Researchers taught these fish to aim their water jets at faces on a screen. And when they shot a specific face, they got a snack.

Amazingly the archerfish quickly caught on, even though they lack part of the brain that humans, primates and even birds have for facial recognition.

These archerfish managed to identify those who fed them 80 percent of the time. Not so dumb after all. Fish and facial recognition, whatever next?


AMANPOUR: Well, the possibility now of the first female President of the United States. And you'll want to watch tomorrow for our exclusive

interview with the legendary feminist, Gloria Steinem.

That's it for us tonight. Remember, you can now also listen to our podcast, see us online at and follow me on Facebook and

Twitter. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.