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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
President Obama, VP Biden Pay Respects In Orlando; Source: Gunman Texted With Wife During Massacre; Senator: Killer Searched 'Pulse Orlando' Online During Massacre; Police Officer Describers Arriving At The Shooting; Officer: "We Just Jetted Right Inside"; Officer: "There Were A Lot Of Bodies All Over On The Floor"; Officer: "With All The Chaos, We Couldn't See Faces"; On Meeting Survivor: "It Was A Feeling You Can't Describe"; Officer: "The Phones Were Ringing, Nobody Was Able To Pick Up"; Ban On Some Gay Men Donating Blood; Gun Shop Staff: Told Law Enforcement About Killer; Sources: Killer's Wife Texted Shed Loved Him, Tried To Call; CIA Chief: ISIS "Will Intensify Its Global Terror Campaign"; Orlando Strong; Senator: Killer Warned Of More ISIS Attacks In Facebook Posts. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 16, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:38] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN AC360 ANCHOR: Thanks very much for joining us in the live hour of "360" here from Orlando.
Today, President Obama was here bringing with him condolences of an entire nation to grieving family members who lost loved ones and what is of course the deadliest mass shooting in American history.
Now, over the next hour, we're going to hear from some of those family members, we hear about their loved ones, not just how they died, but how they lived and what made them so special.
In a moment, we'll bring you an exclusive interview from one of the heroes in the story, a police officer who saved multiple lives that terrible night almost as soon as he got there, he ended up rushing in with his other officers.
Today he was reunited with one of the men he saved. We begin though with the latest in the investigation. We're learning more about the shooter's actions and during the actual massacre from text messages he sent his wife while it was going on in the midst of killing.
CNN Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto is here with latest. So what do we know about this text messages?
JIM SCUITTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Also we learn to that and in addition to the phone calls he made from shooting to 911 to a television station, in addition to the Facebook postings making more threats but also searching for coverage and conversation about the shooting, he was also in phone touch with his wife. She tried to call him a number of times, he didn't pick up, this is during the rampage.
COOPER: She tried to call her? SCUITTO: She tried to call him, he can, he didn't pick up but he did responded in text messages, one to say "I love you" but two also to say "You know, the shooting is going on, I'm the shooter". You know, communicate to one more person what he was doing.
COOPER: He -- I mean, he clearly was desperate for attention, for news coverage for everything, and one of the reasons we continue not to use the person's name.
COOPER: Because not, we don't want to reward them in this way but clearly wants to extend the time just as all active shooters do, the killing time but also the attention time.
SCUITTO: No question, I mean even looking for the attention that he was getting.
SCUITTO: You know making those searches on Facebook in part to make sure that people were talking about it, calling a television station ...
SCUITTO: ... to make sure they were covering and it means that's incredible.
COOPER: And more about that the president's visit today, what did he learn?
SCUITTO: Well, I think, you know, setting the politics aside from a moment, because of course we're into gun control debate far, but, you know, I think for this community which as you know well is still in mourning, it was about presence. I think -- yeah, his initial step was to meet with victims but also was just people from around here. And we saw that and the reaction to him, the signs you saw by the side of the road, the people who turned out. It was about presence. The community is still in mourning, I think that's what both people took away from it today.
COOPER: Right and there were funerals today, more funerals in the days ahead, that's a difficult days. Jim Sciutto, Jim, thank you very much.
We want to bring you a story of hope amidst all of this, one of the survival and heroism. We want you to meet a police officer, Omar Delgado , the first responder who was able to pulled several people from the nightclub. And today he met with the one of the people whose lives he helped saved. I spoke with the Officer Delgado earlier today, it was a huge privilege. This is an exclusive interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: When did you first find out about what was going on in the club?
OMAR DELGADO, EATONVILLE POLICE: We actually got an alert, a tone and my dispatcher stated that Orlando PD had a bad emergency, police talk, as like a signal 43, where they need help. And so everybody goes.
COOPER: So you arrive on scene. What happened, what happened then?
DELGADO: When I arrived on scene I saw an OPD officer off to my right and he was kind of standing behind a -- the like a light box or so, taking cover. And I approached and say, hey what do we have. And he in by saying, active shooter, he still inside the building, and it was maybe seconds later that we hear more gunshots.
COOPER: You could actually hear them from the outside?
DELGADO: From outside, yes. And I don't know what happened, but we, I followed them, we, there was three of us, we just jetted right inside.
COOPER: So that, I mean that's interesting, it there wasn't a lot of time outside, it was just you heard shots, screams and you start to go in.
DELGADO: Right. When the shots are coming out well -- and that's when I arrived I pretty much thought I would just going to be outside, perimeter spot, you know, it'd be over and done with by the time I got there, and no, it was a full force.
COOPER: What happened next?
DELGADO: What I noticed was it was kind of dark, you know, had this disco lights still going and I just began yelling "Hey, guys, come on out, come on out, come on out, you know, we got you, we got you." And there's unfortunately it took a minute but realized that they were faking it's just, they couldn't get up. And there's people -- you saw people all over, yeah, there were a lot of bodies all over on the floor.
[21:05:03] COOPER: What's your role then? Then what happened?
DELGADO: What -- I had my flashlight, we kind of looked around, and somebody yelled out this person is moving, so I remember couple of an officers behind me ran up and grabbed somebody. Another person I saw was moving so I went and another officer grabbed him. We pulled like, you know, three or four people out. With all the chaos, we couldn't two faces, you know, and if the few faces that I saw it was just covered in blood, so I really couldn't tell who it was.
COOPER: It's important to remember, too, that this is not a secure scene at this point. I mean there's still an active shooter inside that structure, you know, I assume at that point he was in the bathroom, is that right?
DELGADO: Yes, he was definitely inside the building. I remember when we grabbed maybe the second or third person and we started pulling them out, we heard like a burst of gunshots. COOPER: So other officers are focused on basically keeping this person contained in an area which allows you all the time to get people out.
DELGADO: I can't tell you how many officers were inside or -- and deputies but I know there were some with long guns, So I know they were focusing in front, you know, if it was a door or what not, they were focusing on that. So we knew we had some type of protection, some cover when we were able to pull most of the bodies out.
COOPER: In the end do you know how many people you were able to pull out?
DELGADO: I personally pulled out about three, maybe four, with the help of the other officers, but I'm glad Angel, but I met him today was one of one the survivors. I really wish I knew if the other three made it, I just don't know because I don't know who they were.
COOPER: What was it like to actually see him today?
DELGADO: Oh my god, it was amazing. It was a feeling that you just can't describe, you can't put in words, knowing that you helped save someone. You know, people try to save people all the time. But in that certain situation it was unreal. And he grabbed me, and hugged me, he hugged me like four, five times and just thank me. I can't tell you how many times he thanked me. But I told him you know I'm glad you're alive, I'm glad we were able to help you get back to your family because that's important.
And I met his sisters they were at the hospital, with his niece and his nephew and they were all so grateful. And it kind of hits you like I said, I'm so glad at least he made it and I was able to be aware of it. I didn't know, I didn't watch the news, just a co-worker called me, and said something about the guy you helped drag out was getting cut by glass, he is on the news. And for the first time I turned the TV on and I actually saw him and for his press conference. It's amazing.
COOPER: Just on a personal level, I mean how do you deal with the things you saw?
DELGADO: It's rough. You know, everyone calls me, and say hey, how you're doing and commenting to say is, I'm doing fine, I'm OK. But when I sit in the room by myself, you know, it's difficult closing your eyes trying to get a sleep because you got flashbacks. You know, people say -- you know that's kind, they'll eventually go away. Just waiting for that to happen because, you know, the mind is still going 100 miles per hour and start to go slow down, but it's ...
COOPER: You still see those images?
DELGADO: Yeah, it's -- it was pretty bad. I mean, just -- I guess I had difficulty sleeping, you know, closing your eyes, and just knowing that those people are went through what they went through.
And there was a lady, that Brenda Lee Marquez in the car, she had the same color hair that you did. And she was not too far from me.
COOPER: In the club?
DELGADO: In the club. And your hair is just standing out because that's one of the things that she -- that draw my attention to her. She had the same color hair that you did. Very short and wasn't until recently that I saw here picture that following I able to put her name.
COOPER: She's was one of the people that didn't make it?
DELGADO: Yeah, she was one of the people didn't make it.
COOPER: That's kind of one of the things, I mean you -- I was in Rwanda during the genocide and briefly and, you know, to see dozens and dozens of people, it's images stay in your mind. I mean, to not know who the people are is, I don't know if it helps or if it makes it harder.
DELGADO: You know, I guess it sort of kind of helps because you just -- you know it's a person, to a degree. It doesn't really affect you if you knew it was a loved one or somebody you knew that kind of really hits you, but knowing that it was still a human being and knowing that the phones were ringing and nobody was able to pick up.
[21:10:06] COOPER: You could hear people's phones ringing?
DELGADO: People's phones were ringing all over the place and to this day I can hear an iPhone ring, because one was so close to me. It began -- it just kept constantly ringing, constantly ringing. And when I got home, I realized, how those people are never going to be able to answer that phone again. And it was -- just little things like that kind of make you put things in perspective of we can't take things for granted.
COOPER: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Officer Delgado, just one of many police officers who was there that night, who responded that night. He doesn't want attention. He doesn't want credit. He's just part of a team. He kept pointing out to us an extraordinary team it was.
President Obama had a lot to say today after he met with grieving families. We'll have that ahead.
Also, right after the massacre, a call went out for help for people to donate blood. Some gay men who wanted to answer that call were surprised that they were actually turned away. But that's nothing new.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look at the FDA's ban on some gay men donating blood, when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Well today, for at least the ninth time over his two terms in office, President Obama met with family members grieving for loved ones who were killed in a mass shooting, it doesn't get any easier.
Here's more what the president said after that meeting today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:14:59] BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As you might imagine, their grief is beyond description. Through their pain and through their tears, they told us about the joy that their loved ones had brought to their lives. They talked about their sons or their daughters. So many young people in their 20s and 30s. So many students who were focused on the future. One young woman was just 18 years old.
These families could be our families. In fact, they are our family, they are part of the American family. And today the vice president and I told them on behalf of the American people that our hearts are broken too and that we stand with you. And that we are here for you. And that we are remembering those who you loved so deeply.
This debate needs to change. It's outgrown the old political stalemate.
The notion that the answer to this tragedy would be to make sure that more people in a nightclub are similarly armed to the killer defies common sense. Those who defend the easy accessibility of assault weapons should meet these families, and explain why that makes sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: On the last hour, I spoke with Christine in line and she has shown such incredible grace, and warmth, and strength under tragic circumstances. Her son Christopher was killed at Pulse Nightclub, he was just 32. His boyfriend, Juan Guerrero was also killed, he was 22. They were deeply in love. They talk about getting married someday.
I spoke with Christopher's mom and his fried, Brandon Wolf, who was there at the club that night. We were so moved by what they had to say, I just wanted to play you some of that interview again in this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Thank you for being with us both, you know, I appreciate it. What was it like meeting the president today, what did you say?
CHRISTINE LEINONEN, SON WAS KILLED IN ORLANDO SHOOTING: It was amazing. I hugged him and I cried on his shoulder, literally cried on his shoulder. And he apologized for the lack of progress but he's tried to ban.
COOPER: He apologized?
LEINONEN: Yes, he did. And so did the vice president, because the vice president even when the time me and my boyfriend that, not Brandon.
COOPER: Your boyfriend that's come down to be with you.
LEINONEN: From Michigan. But he said that he actually had an assault ban bill that either failed or it had passed and then it got repealed. So it's there. It's there. The ability to ban assault weapons is there. And hear I people say well, cars kill people, we don't ban cars. Not ridiculous, knives kill people, we don't ban knives. But they have other purposes. We don't have a purpose for an assault weapon except for at war. And now are we at war? Are we willing to let our children be massacred?
Is that the war that we're fighting? Is it between some of our citizens and the rest of our citizens, the select few get to decide that they're at war with the rest of us? Incognito nonetheless?
BRANDON WOLF, SURVIVED ORLANDO SHOOTING: I like that he didn't make it political. He didn't talk to us about politics. He didn't mention the shooter's name. I really appreciated that.
And for what it was today, I mean he was for us. And it was him saying, you know, what, I'm tired of having the same conversation. I'm just as tired as you are about having the same conversation about, you know, why do we continue to let children and brothers and sisters die in these horrible tragedies and we just brush it off that lasts for a week in the news cycle, and then it is gone.
You know, we fight for something for two days, and then we're over it. You know, that's what he was apologizing for. Let's listen, I'm trying, I'm really trying but, you know, here's where we are. We continue to allow this legislation to just sit there or collect dust and we do no service to anyone who's in these tragedies.
COOPER: Can you tell me about Christopher?
WOLF: Yeah, he was well, my best friend in the world.
COOPER: How long had you known each other?
WOLF: We've known each other for a few years now and we just instantly connected. I mean, he was always there for everything, like for a laugh, for going out, for the times when I really needed somebody kind on my side.
[21:20:02] And so that's my -- what I decided to carry on, a legacy of love and compassion for other people. I don't spend my time hating people. I don't spend my time, again, thinking about the shooter or his name. I spend my time reminding there are those around me and in those in America that might be dealing with similar things that I love them and that's it.
COOPER: You know, I get so many e-mails from friends and family, and texts from people I don't know about you when you were on the other night and about your strength and your ability to be standing here, to be upright, and to be talking about your son. What do the next couple days hold for you? LEINONEN: Well I have my son's viewing at the funeral home and then ...
COOPER: The viewing is tomorrow?
LEINONEN: Tomorrow and then the funeral mass is Saturday. So those are the -- it's today was an emotional day with being at Juan's funeral as well after visiting with the president was emotional and then being at once to ...
COOPER: And Juan was buried today?
COOPER: With the funeral.
WOLF: Funeral was today.
LEINONEN: The funeral was yes for him was today.
COOPER: I can't imagine what that was like.
LEINONEN: You know, it's funny that like about Juan though, because we were talking the other day about how -- because my son Christopher was always going to be a little antsy, he wasn't really sure that he went ahead and put in for his Illinois license. He took the exam and did the steps to put in for his Illinois Mental Health Counselor license ...
LEINONEN: ... and then he, because and I review I want to follow you to Chicago, but then he met Juan and he started talking about, you know mom, I'm staying in Orlando. I'm just going to stay here. So that's when you knew.
COOPER: They were so drawn together right away.
LEINONEN: Yes. And that's when you knew it was -- so his mom and I, even though she speaks only Spanish, but through their relatives that speak both languages, we've been talking about something that would unite Juan and Christopher in eternity. But right now, she's very protective, she wants every piece of Juan. And at some point we might get together and she be willing to take part of Juan's ashes and combine them with Christopher's, and will do something.
COOPER: So they can be together.
WOLF: Yes, together forever. That's what they always wanted, so that's what we want for them, too.
COOPER: Yeah. And I hope that happens.
LEINONEN: Partners in eternity now. COOPER: So thank you.
LEINONEN: Thank you, my dear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just ahead, the massacre in Orlando is renewed debate over rules banning sexually active gay man from donating blood in the wake of the tragedy. Men who were desperate to help were actually turned away from blood banks.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us shortly coming up to talk about with the policy as it is now.
[21:27:05] COOPER: Well, you know, probably now 53 people were wounded in the Pulse shooting. Tonight more than 20 remain hospitalize, the gunshot wounds as the victim sustained were the kind you see in war zones. There's no doubt about it, blood banks in Orlando put out the desperate call for donors, so many people lined up to give blood. It was incredible to see.
The gay and bisexual men who wanted to helped have been turned away, which a renewed calls to loss a restrictions and many save perpetuate a stigma.
Our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Giving blood after a tragedy is not only necessary but it's become a symbol of resilience, a way for grief to be channeled into action.
SCOTT GARSTKA, PROSPECTIVE BLOOD DONOR: We jumped in the car, went and got our friend Justin and Jordan, and we ran to the blood bank because they said we were in crisis. And they didn't have enough blood to help support what they were seen on the street.
GUPTA: You want to go. You want to go and help. But that morning you find out that you can't donate blood.
GARSTKA: Correct, there's a ban on men, gay men, giving blood, you know, it was just one of those rather shocks to the system that day.
GUPTA: According to the FDA which overseas the safety of the U.S. blood supply, men who had sex with men, even protected sex within the past year cannot donate.
GARSTKA: I know that have had regular tests, that I know I'm a HIV negative person, that I felt like why couldn't I give a blood and why couldn't they screen it.
GUPTA: It's a good question the fact is, all blood, regardless of the donor is screened for a number of things including Hepatitis B, C, and HIV. So I decided to go down to the OneBlood blood bank to better understand this policy.
With the one that channel their grief in some way and it's always in the blood donation is one of those things. I don't know what to do. This is something I can do. Maybe, maybe I can help. But there is something in the form that prevents a certain populations of people from donating. Talk about that, what is this, what are the criteria what are the restrictions?
SUSAN FORBES, VICE PRESIDENT ONEBLOOD: Well, every blood center is required to follow the rules and guidelines handed down by the Food and Drug Administration.
So we don't make the rules, we play by them. And we have to follow them. And when it comes to the specific questions on there that the Food and Drug Administration has on the form, and if somebody checks yes or no to certain answers, then maybe we deferred at that time.
GUPTA: Here's the FDA's questionnaire. Question 19, male donors, in the past 12 months that you had sexual contact with another male.
If one of these donors says to you Susan, why can't I donate, what do you say?
FORBES: I say we have to follow rules from the FDA. And I feel for them, believe me. We all do it because we know that people want to do the right thing, and they want to come out and donate.
GUPTA: The FDA says it's a matter of risk. But this has it become a contentious issue in the force of government, the White House, and among scientists.
SEAN CAHILL, THE FENWAY INSTITUTE: The policy we have really prevents a lot of HIV negative in gay men, the vast majority of us are HIV negative, and it prevents us from being able to donate and contribute to emergency preparedness and, you know, in this case to help people who had been shot.
[21:30:13] GUPTA: It's a policy that may no longer make sense in the way could advancing science and tremendous need.
DR. MICHAEL CHEATHAM, ORLANDO REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: It's a matter of more like 100 to 200 units is opposed to just a few units at some hospitals the key. We had one patient that went through almost 200 units of blood just in the first 24 hours.
GUPTA: Fortunately there was enough good will here on Orlando to keep up with the tremendous demand for blood. But the inability of people likes Scott to donate has added insult to injury.
GARSTKA: No. I mean -- I think the world would be you feel discriminated, right, I mean you go down there, you're crying, all of our friends are coming and gather at that moment we just want to help. And then to be told you couldn't because again it is the same thing we felt the hope for the last few days, just because we love each other, just because we care for each other, and we can't do this.
And it is infuriating. It's -- it makes us want to stand up and scream from the mountain tops, like why is our blood not good enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. I mean I understand about the initial rules were made in the, you know, the awful days, the height of the epidemic. But there's testing now and straight people who have had sex within the last 12 months can give all the blood they want.
GUPTA: Yeah. I mean the original rules as you point were essentially a lifetime ban, and that's what they say. And just in December of last year, so not that long ago. They said they're going to make it 12 months. It doesn't follow logic.
COOPER: Blood is that -- is tested?
GUPTA: The blood is going to be tested regardless of who the donor is. So, you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And I'm point out again after a tragedy like this happens, a lot of people do give blood, they had enough blood at a place like this to take care of the tremendous need, but that's not typical. You know, typically there's not enough people give blood. Only about 10 percent of eligible donors are donating at any given time. So this can be a significant deal.
COOPER: Is this something the FDA, I mean they've already change the policy once to make this 12 months limit. Is this -- because now they are saying a gay men or sell it for 12 months then they can give a blood.
COOPER: And again is like just, from a medical standpoint it doesn't seem to make sense. I mean.
GUPTA: It doesn't -- it doesn't make sense. And I think, you know, you heard from the scientist there from the Fenway Institute and hearing from people at the Broad Institute in Massachusetts. I think the science is going eventually drive this. It's kind of remarkable the FDA, I think it's a pretty conservative institution.
COOPER: Right, because even if somebody knows they're HIV positive and take some medicine every day, the chance of them transmitting that virus to somebody else is almost non-existent. Study that I've seen show that the steroid discording couples, somebody is positive as long as your taking medicine as they should everyday, they're haven't been examples of them transmitting the virus so its not positive.
GUPTA: Right. I don't think there's been a case.
GUPTA: I don't think there's an example where it's actually transmitted that way. And so the science hasn't really followed this particular thing. I think this has been more of a cultural sort of hangover from the '80s and even early '90s. But I think it is changing. You're hearing it from politicians in Massachusetts your hearing it from a lot of scientists. And again there's a tremendous need for blood donation and tremendous advance in science.
COOPER: And that's the bottom line. Is not as if there's so much blood out there that there is not this wouldn't actually help the matters.
GUPTA: That's right. So one of the things that came up with Scott even was, you know, in the interim, because I do think the policy is ultimately are changing on this, but in the interim, convincing other people to donate blood, they can't donate. I'm O-negative free example.
COOPER: Maybe some people seen will say, well in an emergency maybe they don't fully test the blood is donated, right.
GUPTA: They still fully to -- they still fully test blood that is donated. And let me point out this that this tragedy happened on Sunday. Where did blood come from that was helping people Sunday it wasn't immediately donors from Sunday, it was donors from Friday.
So you see it's a lot of people have to be donating continuously. Because you don't know when a tremendous need for that blood might occur or when a tragedy like this might occur. So you got to have to have blood banks continuously replenished.
COOPER: Sanjay Gupta reporting. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.
Much more ahead, including the dire warning about ISIS from the CIA directors, and important news to tell you though, why is this we could see more attacks like the one here in Orlando?
[21:38:12] COOPER: Welcome back. Well, we all know the Orlando shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS. Today the CIA chief issued a dire warning to Congress about lone wolf attacks or plots of other kinds by ISIS. Plots that they are likely used, saying the group is actually going to intensify it's global terror campaign as our battlefield losses continue to mount.
And more from our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA STARR, CNN'S PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The Orlando attack was not directly connected to ISIS but the head of the CIA said today ISIS wants to encourage more.
JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: As we have seen in Orlando, San Bernardino and elsewhere, ISIL is attempting to inspire attacks by sympathizers who have no direct links to the group.
STARR: In blunt language, CIA Director John Brennan warned ISIS is working to go attack the west any way it can.
BRENNAN: ISISL has a large cod ray of Western fighters who could potentially serve as operatives for attacks in the west. And they're group is probably exploring a variety of mean for infiltrate operatives into the west including in refugee close, smuggling routes and legitimate methods of travel.
STARR: And to the astonishing assessment.
BRENNAN: Unfortunately despite all our progress against ISIL on the battlefield and then the financial realm, our efforts have not reduced the group's terrorism capability and global reach.
STARR: Brennan called the terror group resilient, adapting to efforts to stop it.
BRENNAN: ISIL will probably rely on guerrilla tactics including high profile attacks outside the territory in Syria and Iraq that are currently holds.
STARR: The Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee calling for more action.
SEN. RICHARD BURR, (R) INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: ISIL'S global battlefield now includes the United States and we cannot stand idly by. We must take the fight to them.
STARR: But after thousands of air strikes, and loss of territory, ISIS maintains key advantages.
[21:40:03] BRENNAN: The group would have to suffer even heavy losses on territory, man power and money for its terrorist capacity to decline significantly.
STARR: The group still collecting estimated tens of million of dollars each month through intimidation access and oil sales. And the spread of ISIS across the world is now ensuring its capacity for conducting more attacks. Its numbers far exceeding Al-Qaeda at a tight.
In Iraq and Syria there are between 18 and 22,000 down from as many as 33,000 last year. In Libya, its most dangerous affiliate, 5,000 to 8,000 operatives. In Egypt and Sinai Peninsula, perhaps up to a thousand.
BRENNAN: There are hardcore fighters, there are adherents, there are logistics specialists, assault and others. But numbers are significant.
STARR: Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well joining me now is Former Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security, Juliette Kayyem also joining us is Phil Mudd, a Former Senior Official at the CIA and the FBI. So the idea Phil that ISIS maybe trying to smuggle operatives into America via the refugee process or into Europe particularly probably have been easier from places like Syria, realistically what can be done, because I mean I was on -- as I said to Senator Feinstein, I was onLesbos months ago. I though, you know, when they come assure you find ripped up passports from people, it kind of destroying their old identities, hoping to adopt new identities.
And those are a lot of this people are just, you know, law abiding citizens who just want kind of start a new life. So somebody who's intentionally join a smuggling, how can you actually vet them?
PHILIP MUDD, FORMER OFFICIAL FBI AND CIA: There's some, you can do working for example with the Turks and the Jordanians, trying to prevent people from crossing borders, trying to improve passport protection, looking at immigrants. But, Anderson were only looking at half of the story whether we look at Orlando or whether we look at immigrants in Europe, until you stop the core of the organization in Syria and Iraq, you're not going to stop the cancer from spreading.
So we seem to separate the conversation about how to protect the America from home groans from the conversation about whether to deploy American Special Forces, for example, in Syria and Iraq. You cannot separate those two questions until you kill the head of the snake, the ideology will perpetuate itself.
So we've got to keep the two questions together. How do we deploy overseas and how do we use forces to protect ourselves in the United States.
COOPER: I mean Juliette to that point, it seems -- I mean you see in Barbara's report, the numbers of them drop by about a third over the last year or so in terms of on the battlefield, you know, killed and perhaps just kind of gone, and yet it seems like as their in battlefield mountains -- battlefield losses mount, they're kind of reemphasizing sending people for jihad across the globe.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER U.S. ASST. SECY. FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: That's exactly right. So, look ISIS has been successful for three reasons, territory, money, its ability to get money, steal money, tax people, and manpower. And so you have to get all three of those. In territory and money we've been somewhat successful you saw within the numbers.
The manpower issue though is very difficult because they just -- if you were just getting inspired by they said. They don't even have to be trained by them. And in that gets to the second part of Brennan's testimony which is ISIS is also just much more resilient than we first imagined and is now adapting what it views as success. A couple years ago or two years ago, not that long ago, they thought success was territorial gains. They now define success as Paris, Brussels and note take credit for things they didn't know about, like what we saw in Florida this week.
COOPER: Also, Phil I mean scary thing. I mean look at Orlando, San Bernardino, you know, these are people who were both American born citizens and may or may not have had actual contact with, you know, ISIS central or any kind of ISIS affiliate.
So, does it even matter necessarily if ISIS themselves is sending people over if there's plenty enough people here who are willing to just kind of take up the banner whether or not they actually even know much about what ISIS is in reality?
MUDD: Anderson you raise a critical point has been lost with past four or five days since the attacks early Sunday. Al-Qaeda was an ideology that is an organization, inspired people to believe that they had to fight the Americans and to force the Americans to leave from places like Saudi Arabia.
In my judgment, ISIS has become an excuse that is someone that's angry about a gay club, someone who is angry, we saw attacks in Tunisia on tourist sites, attacks in Paris, attacks in Brussels. These individuals who'd never met an ISIS member have a problem, they've got a problem with western culture, they might have a personal problem. They're looking for an excuse to conduct an operation.
[21:45:00] And they fight ISIS as their excuse to say I'm concerned, I'm angry. ISIS tells me that my attack will be legitimate. I thing what we're seeing is a fundamental change in the war and terror and that is not a fight against an Al-Qaeda ideology, a fight against an organization like ISIS that just gives people an excuse to do whatever they want to do which is what we saw in Orlando.
COOPER: Juliette Kayyem and Phil Mudd, I appreciate you guys being with us as always.
Just ahead, a community that is certainly still hurting deeply is also holding each other close and not giving in to fear. We'll show you how one victim's brother memorialized his sister last night.
COOPER: Well, the strength and love we've seen in the wake of Orlando's worst hour has been humbling, and personally it's been a privilege to be here. Step by step, day by day, the people here are helping each other to get through what have been just unspeakable days to hold on to love, and love wins.
We keep hearing that. It's what those who died would want. Amanda Alvear was 25 years old. Her final moments were captured in a Snapchat video she recorded when the gunfire erupted. She and some of the others who died were remembered last night in an event organized by her brother.
Gary Tuchman takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:49:58] GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brian Alvear is paying homage to his sister Amanda in what some might call it unexpected way.
Coincidentally, Brian works at another gay club in the area, it's in Lakeland Florida. A gay and lesbian bar where he spins tunes as karaoke jockey. This night has been designated as a memorial for the Pulse victims and fund-raiser for his family as they get ready to bury Amanda.
BRIAN ALVEAR, AMANDA ALVEAR'S BROTHER: We're having a great time, spread some love and just have fun. And I just want to show that nothing is going to be keep us from getting together and having an easy time.
TUCHMAN: The club was packed.
DAN THOMTON, ALVEAR FAMILY SUPPORTER: We know the community, and we're part of that community. And when one of us is attacked, we're all attacked.
ALVEAR: But it is so great to see both of you. I really, really love you.
TUCHMAN: Many of the people at this club gay and straight say reaction form the outside community has brightened their spirits.
CHRISTINE LALLY, ALVEAR FAMILY SUPPORTER: There is a self-empowerment that the LGBT Community has created, but now I think we're finally getting our backbone and we're getting those allies out that are coming out of the woodworks to support us.
TUCHMAN: The atmosphere is the same, the drinks are the same, the music is the same, but so much else is profoundly changing that this club and other clubs like it in the Orlando area.
There is an element of anxiety that wasn't present before past weekend. Brian Alvear says there were plains clothed officers inside.
KAITHLYN LALLY, ALVEAR FAMILY SUPPORTER: Yeah. I feel less in here, because I don't know its going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For young kids are scared I think the older individuals that are gay have dealt with not this, but the trepidations that come with being gay and being out in a straight society.
TUCHMAN: It's on Brian Alvear's mind, too.
ALVEAR: My mother was frightened about me doing this tonight, and I told here that I'm not going to let anyone and anyone's actions dictate my life, because I don't feel like that's what my sister would have wanted, because she was so stubborn she's like, you know, what, no. If you want to spread hate, and if we're going to be afraid, then he's winning.
TUCHMAN: And indeed, while there is concern here, we didn't find anyone who said that it will change what they do or what they believe in.
ALVEAR: I am standing here, and this is an act of defiance. Like, you're not going to stop me from doing what I do normally, and all this people are just coming and standing behind me and showing love, and can't and I love every single one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Gary joins me now along with Terry DeCarlo, Executive Director of the GLGBT Community Center of Central Florida.
Thank you so much for all that you have done and you have been awake, I don't know how much sleep you've got if any.
TERRY DECARLO, EXEC. DIR. GLBT COMMUNITY CENTER OF CENTRAL FLORIDA: Probably six hours sleep in the past four days.
COOPER: Yeah, well you've been helping an awful lot of people. What do you want people to know about what's happening here, and how this community is standing up?
DECARLO: This community is a strong community, and this has really rally this community, and not only keep that LGBT, but Non-LGBT group. People that were standing on the side.
COOPER: It's good they're together.
DECARLO: Yes, they are standing in the street, they're mad, too, and this is our town, this is our city, and the outpouring -- I now have 40,000 cases of water at the center. My center looks like a Walmart.
COOPER: You have had folks handing out waters people on the streets who have memorials.
DECARLO: We take it to all the police stations, all the firehouses. We make take down to the press camps that are going to on. We take it to the hospitals. We take it to where the families are, we take them food to fill their refrigerator, you know, if there's anything that they need.
COOPER: You know, I think there are maybe some people aren't here not and I've heard are from a lot of friends of mine, gay people around the country who, you know, I have been fearful in a way. And I found it one of the things they kept saying to them, I kind of wish that you guys were here, because I don't feel fear here and I don't get a sense of fear from other people, I get a sense of defiance, and a sense of wanting to hold your head up high and walk the streets and be out there?
DECARLO: It's a little bit of both. Because, you know, we have the people who are upset, and are out there, and they are helping, and there -- the trucks cars and trucks just keep pulling up to the center with all kinds of stuff, and then we have counselors, we have our grief counselors. We have 600 counselors working right now, because we have people calling who are afraid to leave their house.
You know, with what happened last Friday at Plaza Live, and then this happen Saturday where have some people who are afraid to leave their house are very fearful to come out. So we are talking to our counselors, and, you know, we just want to be there and say, you know, this is a safe place, we can happen at any city, it just, you know, unfortunately, it happened here.
COOPER: And Brian -- Gary, Brian met with the president today?
TUCHMAN: Like, Brian met with the president with his parents, and he says it is comforting for all three of them. Here also told me something interesting particularly interesting because here if you lost the sister, parents lost their daughter.
[21:55:03] Brian told me that he felt bad for President Obama that President Obama has had to go to so many cities throughout the United States and do this very same thing.
COOPER: Yeah. What do you think -- does something change here moving forward, do you think for this community, for the gay and lesbian community here?
DECARLO: I think it's, like I said before, I think it has strengthened them. I think you're going to see a more resilient and more people coming out and more -- I don't think fear is going to take over. I don't.
COOPER: I had actually a nurse from the hospital just come up to me and during one of the commercial breaks, said, I just came out to my co-workers yesterday ...
COOPER: ... because of this. They want -- people want to be visible.
DECARLO: You know, them we're seeing, that's a center too, people are just coming in. We got a lot of the family members coming into the center. People that were in the club who say, look, I want to talk to the councilor. I was in the club. I don't really want anybody to know I was in the club. I just want to be around people. I want to grab a case of water. I want to put it in the truck. I just want to feel like I'm doing something to help.
So, yeah, I think the community people are being resilient. They're coming out there. Some of them are really mad.
COOPER: Yeah, Terry DeCarlo, again, thank you for all you've done.
DECARLO: Thank you.
COOPER: Gary Tuchman as well. We'll be right back.
COOPER: For information on how you can help the Orlando shooting survivors and victim's families, go to cnn.com/impact. You'll find links to donate to the families and the community, to Equality Florida, the National Compassion Fund and the One Orlando Fund.
[22:00:09] In fact, the One Orlando Fund is the one that now the mayor and others are kind of recommending. And that's going to try to distribute money I think to a number of organizations. But again, check out that out --