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Dump Trump Movement Growing; Trump: Delegate Revolt "Illegal"; Ryan: Vote Your Conscience; Killer's Finances And High School Suspensions; Clues Orlando Killer Was Preparing To Die; Source: Gunman's Preparations Suggest Premeditation; FBI Scouring Surveillance Video That Shows Shooting; Memorial In Orlando; Obama: Too Easy To Buy Powerful Weapons; Trump On Orlando Nightclub Massacre; Trump: Armed Patrons Could Have Stopped Attack; GOP Delegates Push To Stop Trump. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 17, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:27] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That does it for us tonight from Orlando. Time now for "CNN Tonight" with Don Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT ANCHOR: So what if the only people who could stop Donald Trump from getting the Republican nomination, actually got together and did.
This is "CNN Tonight", I am Don Lemon.
A group of GOP delegates, not pundits, mounting a last ditch effort to block Trump at the GOP convention.
Can they pull it off? Trump at a rally in Texas tonight, and claiming that a delegate revolt would be totally illegal. House Speaker Paul Ryan not exactly calling in the cavalry, offering this advice to his colleagues about supporting Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, HOUSE SPEAKER: The last thing I would do is tell anybody to do something just contrary with their conscience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And we're learning more about the nightclub killer Omar Mateen about his finances and the extensive high school suspensions.
A lot to get you tonight but I want to begin with the breaking news on the Orlando investigation and bring in CNN's Drew Griffin. Drew, has been doing some investigating reports too, telling your information coming out about Mateen's background specifically as attempt to become a policemen. What can you tell us about that?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: This was back in 2007 we reported early this week down that he was kicked out of a law enforcement academy at the Indiana River State College that was in April of 2007. At the same time, he was fired from his job as a corrections officer.
We've been trying to get records all week explaining why, fellow classmates have said there was some sort of a perceived threat involved. Tonight, we got those records and not only was he falling asleep constantly in class but shortly after the Virginia Tech massacre, remember this is back in 2007, this killer, the shooter was apparently talking to another classmate about bringing a gun to class.
That set off alarm bells specifically because of the Virginia Tech massacre that had just taken place. And now we believe that is why he was expelled from that school. But again, this warning sign that we're looking back hind sight on did not prevent him from continuing in the security at guard industry, continuing to have a license to carry a firearm.
LEMON: Let's get conclusive to the present time now and then, there is also a news about Mateen's actions through leading up to the massacre. What have you learned about that?
GRIFFIN: Yeah, from law enforcement sources, it appears not only was he planning this attack, he was planning life after the attack apparently believing that he would be killed. We know that in the weeks leading up to this, he was making sure his wife's name was added on the bank accounts, onto his life insurance policies.
He even in the last month or so transferred a portion of property that he owned jointly with his sister and brother-in-law he transferred that over to them for a cost of just $10. Police believe this was a sign that he was not only planning the attack but planning that he would be dead after the attack took place.
LEMON: And so you have some information that you found out today that Mateen spoke to someone in the D.C. area during the attack. What else can you tell us about that?
GRIFFIN: This was the third call that we had been trying to get information on. We're told it was a friend that had contacted him during the rampage. Now we know what happened. A medical professional who was friend's with this killer was in Washington, D.C. and noticed the Facebook posts that the killer was putting on his Facebook in real time during this event.
Apparently this friend reached out to Mateen. They had a conversation. The conversation we are told from FBI sources was about medications. That is all they would give us except to tell us that he has this friend, has been investigated, has been interviewed, and police do not believe he had any prior knowledge of the attack.
LEMON: Drew Griffin, Drew, one more question for you. The FBI visited Mateen's mosque. What were they looking for?
GRIFFIN: It look like they were circling back to make sure they haven't missed anything. Any sort of relationships or acquaintances he might have had. They're still digging through just the fort pierce community, looking for anybody who may have known what was about to take place. Quite frankly, they don't have any evidence of it, but may have helped in the planning.
So the FBI agents, two of them spent about an hour at that mosque this morning. The mosque has been open and telling us what was being discussed and the mosque I should say has been very open and adamant that they have no regard for this killer who was amongst them in prayer and they are speaking quite adamantly against any kind of violence like this.
[21:05:10] LEMON: All right. Drew Griffin. Thank you Drew. I appreciate that.
This next interview they had some strange interactions with Mateen. I want to bring in Robert Krestalude and his son Vincent, former neighbors of Omar Mateen's family. Good evening to both of you and. And thank you for coming on. Robert, you first, you were a neighbor to the Mateen's when Omar was just a teenager. What was he like then?
ROBERT KRESTALUDE, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF MATEEN FAMILY: He was a like a normal kid. He was -- he would run around with the kids around the neighborhood, try to fit in with them but never had any kids over to this house.
LEMON: Did you fight with his father? Why exactly did you fight with him?
R. KRESTALUDE: When we first moved into the neighborhood the first couple months were very calm but then they started escalating because my youngest son at the time was three and a half, four years old, his daughter was -- youngest daughter was around the same, accusing my son of throwing things in his yard and I would witness it, it wouldn't happen, and then it just escalated after that.
He had called the police on me, and we were told just, you know, stay on your side, you stay on your side, and that's it. And then it just kept in escalating even worse and then I called the police on him.
His wife was having an argument with my wife. He was not there that night, he was at the mosque. When he came home later that night, it really escalated to the point that we had a big argument and he -- it got so pointed that his nose would touched mine and we were almost going to have hand-to-hand combat.
LEMON: Yeah, it must came too close. But it never did come to close, right? You never got physical?
R. KRESTALUDE: No sir.
LEMON: What did you think of the father?
R. KRESTALUDE: The father -- that's the father, that's who I am talking about ...
LEMON: But what did you think of him?
R. KRESTALUDE: He won't -- at that point up until that point he was just, you know, we did talk and we had different things, we talked and he was all right, but after those first couple of months and we got into it after that, it was just like he couldn't come on my side of the property, so he would sit on his car.
I would work at night at that time. I would leave at 10:00. He would be out to harass me. I come home at 4:00, 5:00 in the morning. He was on the hood of his car harassing me.
During the day I go out to go do some shopping or something - he's on the hood harassing me.
R. KRESTALUDE: It just got real, real, real heated. I mean it got bad.
VINCENT KRESTALUDE, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF MATEEN FAMILY: It even got to a point where years after when they no longer lived next to us, Don, they -- if we pulled up to a red light next to them, it didn't matter me, who was me or my father or even my friend that lived down the road, they -- he would almost drive off the road screaming obscenities, threatening to kill us, our whole family, shooting the bird at us out the window, just all of his focus and anger was directed toward us for some reason.
LEMON: Were you the only ones who is that happened with the only family? Did he had problems with any ...
R. KRESTALUDE: No. We had moved after a couple of years, we had moved down the street. We're actually a block and a half down the street and he would come by and he'd yell every time he see me, you know, upfront.
But he pulled in my neighbor's driveway one day and I had said to my wife and my kids they just to stay in the house. And he'd be out there and he was yelling at me. My neighbors get out of my driveway with your limousine. He had a big Lincoln limousine and he just said to him "Get in my car, you bad S-O-B, and I'll kill you."
LEMON: So did this behavior ...
LEMON: Do you think that this behavior that he did it spill over to Omar? Did Omar exhibit the same type of behavior or was he a different kind of person?
V. KRESTALUDE: Omar at that time, he, seemed to be a loner, you know. And he never -- I never saw him with any friends from school over at the house. He never went anywhere. He just kind of hung around in the neighborhood. He was very antagonizing. He would ride up in your yard with his bike, throw something at the yard, yell something at you, or curse word or what not, just trying to rouse you to get you to come after him or something. And I think it was to go yelling and get his dad involved.
LEMON: Yeah. Did he ever talk about gays or anything homophobic or was he too young at that point?
V. KRESTALUDE: At that time, I don't recall him saying anything about gays. He may have thrown out the word "faggot" you know, it's just a name calling but there was no actual like directed hatred towards gays.
[21:10:10] LEMON: And what about women? What about girls?
V. KRESTALUDE: Well, I saw how the way he treated his mother was very disrespectful and I can tell you right now, Don, if I talked to my mother the way he did, my father -- I probably wouldn't be standing here now. He -- one time they were leaving, he was going with his father and the mother was yelling at him about something and he went up and was just speaking in a different language, I didn't understand what he was saying. And as he was walking away, he called her B word and she just kind of took it and walked inside, and the father just walked him to the car. And I can tell you, if that was me, I would have got to it when I got in the car.
LEMON: Yeah. So, after we heard that 9/11 had a profound effect on Omar, did you -- I don't know, were you ever suspicious that the family was involved in some sort of terror because it seemed to have a profound effect on at least Omar and his father.
R. KRESTALUDE: Well, yeah, leading up to 9/11, before 9/11, he had people over at the house a lot and, you know, you didn't think of much of anything it was 9/11 didn't happen right then, when we were still talking, I pulled up one day, he was -- he had a flat bed truck there road in balls in two of his vans, he had four, five cars and I says, oh, you getting rid of your car just selling, he says no, I m giving them to my brothers in New York, they need vehicles, so, I'm going to -- shipping them up there.
And then, after that, it wasn't too long after that is when 9/11 happened and he -- it was just before 9/11 or right after 9/11, he moved from that house and I never seen anybody move as fast as he did and he move down to Martin County to a house.
LEMON: So, Vinny, the FBI came to your brother's house to investigate Mateen, what did they want to know?
V. KRESTALUDE: Well, my dad could probably touch more on that, he spoke directly with my brother after the visit from the FBI.
LEMON: And what you know Robert?
R. KRESTALUDE: According to my son, what -- they came, they were very nice, they talked to him, they're asking him questions basically like you're asking right now. And at the time, he was only nine years old and he answered to the best of his knowledge and they said well, more or less your father knows more about it and he says yes. So, they said "well, want your father's name, and we want his phone number, and we want to contact him" and he gave it to them. I haven't heard from him yet but I'm sure I will.
But he gave them everything that he knew up to that point just like Vince is telling you right now about him because he was more Omar's age, my other son. So they were around that same age, Omar was a couple of years older than him.
LEMON: Yeah. Given what you know, either of you can answer about his history, should Omar Mateen have been able to buy a gun?
V. KRESTALUDE: No.
R. KRESTALUDE: No.
LEMON: Why not, Vinny?
V. KRESTALUDE: No. If you're on an FBI watch list at any point there should be stricter, tougher check maybe I mean, I'm a Second Amendment believer but I also believe in background checks.
For somebody to be watched that many times and no red flags go up, I mean, even if it is up to the shop owner not to sell to them at that point, then let them make the decision but at least have some kind of marking there that he has been investigated for terror threats made and then let other people make the decision at that point, but I think it was way too easy.
LEMON: Vinny and Robert Krestalude, former neighbors of Omar Mateen's family, thank you very much, I appreciate it.
V. KRESTALUDE: Thank you, Don.
R. KRESTALUDE: Thank you Don.
LEMON: Up next, how did Omar Mateen slip through law enforcement's radar?
[21:17:57] LEMON: Features now Orlando, Florida, that's at the memorial that is set up near the hospital and near the site of last Sunday morning's massacre at the Pulse Nightclub. And you can see people there going, still paying their respects on this Friday evening.
And with each passing day we are learning more about Omar Mateen's behavior leading up to the night club massacre. I want to bring in now CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander -- excuse me get me mouth to work on this Friday night, author of the "The New Guardians: Policing in America's communities for the 21st century", CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem and Mark Nejame, in Orlando community leader, good to have you all on this Friday evening.
Cedric, you first. There were so many warning signs about this. You heard the neighbors -- his former neighbors just a second ago, besides his violent past, the FBI had him on a watch list. Should he have been on local law enforcement radar, Cedric?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, they -- he would not have been on their radar unless for some reason the FBI had discovered some information that would have been relevant for local law enforcement but considering the fact that he was American born and raised in this country, educated in this country, attempted to become a security guard, I understand at some point he was.
So there was some level of some point of some training that he had received. How in depth they went to his background? Don, I don't know, it's going to be interesting to know that however, but it's not unusual. Sometimes, that some people are missed for really a variety of reasons, but I believe as the investigation continues, we're going to learn more and more how he was able to slip through the cracks, should that have been the case, or he had just had been working in the way that he'd been working for some time.
LEMON: Yeah, because the information seems to be coming rapidly, the investigation progressing very quickly here. Juliette, what about the security form -- firm that he work for, even after the FBI investigative team, they didn't do another psychological test on him, was that a big mistake? Is this common?
[21:20:00] JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well I want to know what the standard operating procedure was for this is a large company, one of the global security companies and it didn't shock me. I think what was shocking was that they said they had him and they it. They had done security reviews and background checks on him, relatively, recently, but I think it does show just when we talk about these gaps. One of the other gaps that we have to look is the sort of failure probably because they weren't able to figure out what was going on or the fact that the FBI did not notify the company of not one, not two, but three interviews they had with one of the employees.
That seems to me, given that that the given that the employment firm is a security firm, right? Where the person is going to be armed, that's one area that is a challenge because of the public, private aspects to it. But something that I think we -- the problem with our watch list very quickly is they're on, off switch -- they -- the interview either has him on or off a list.
But I think, you know, one, two, three interviews, there might be ways that we can look at this lists and look at gradations of these lists that allow the FBI to pursue or local law enforcement to pursue.
LEMON: Mark Nejame, question for you. He appeared to be preparing to for something, maybe to die, changing financial records, buying his wife an expensive piece of jewelry, signing over his share of the house to his brother-in-law, do those facts add to the argument that his wife and family should have known that he was planning something?
MARK NEJAME, COMMUNITY LEADER, ATTORNEY: Well, there were clearly indicators, but remember, we're talking about somebody who's idea of right and wrong and appropriate conduct and really just baffles the imagination.
This is a man who has a four-year-old child, and yet it didn't seem to be any indication that there were goodbyes to his beloved son supposedly and yet this still went ahead and happened. Yes, people do make financial plans and I think that's can be one of the pieces of evidence that in fact might lead to indictment of his wife simply because when you piece all of the things together, she likely knew what was getting ready to happen.
So I think it is relevant in that regard but, you know, we're trying to, you know, we're trying to make sanity out of an insane person or person who act insane.
LEMON: Yeah, especially when you talked about, Juliette he was troubled. He suspended 48 days in high school, that's a lot. Allegedly abused his wife, he fought with his neighbors, kicked out of the police academy, why would someone like this be attracted to ISIS?
KAYYEM: Because they gave him a meaning that he was searching for, for all his hatred. Remember, ISIS is sort of the last, the last sort of hatred that he gum onto, you know there was Al-Qaeda with the Boston marathon bombers, there's Hezbollah, one stage during FBI interviews, it's clearly hostile to women, he beat his first wife, the hatred towards the LGBT community.
ISIS was selling him something that he wanted to buy but there's just still no evidence and just important that we say this, that ISIS directed this, had knowledge of it. ISIS is happy in this day and age to take credit for everything and so they are taking credit for but there's still no knowledge and I doubt, I doubt there's a direct link.
LEMON: Let's talk more about what he was doing, Cedric, his behavior. He had been going to that club that club for awhile, he visited gay dating sites for years, he had gay porn on his computer and it seem to come to Jihadi websites much more recently.
Could this Jihadi connection be a cover for conflicted feelings about his sexuality, fear of rejection, maybe mental illness? Do we know if terror was the primary motive?
ALEXANDER: Well that's certainly is what comes to mind for me, Don, thinking for a moment here as a psychologist now is that it appears he had a lot of conflicted feelings, started certainly very early on in life, going all way back to elementary school now. We know he had some very bizarre acting out types of behavior that created a great deal of attention right on through high school.
But here is someone, whatever he may have been feeling, he very well could have been masking those feelings around his own sexuality to a point were he becomes anxiety filled, he become fearful, and therefore he becomes angry.
And with that anger he can barely to project out. Now you take that and add in a feeling of isolation, you need to be part of something, you take a group like ISIL that he can connect with, whether he connected with them or they connected with him, it doesn't matter to me whether it was inspired, are they or that he got a phone call from him. At the end of the day, the results were the same.
LEMON: Yeah. ALEXANDER: So this is an individual who was clearly very conflicted and I think as time go on, we're going to learn a lot more about him psychologically and we're going to be able to piece his history, past, present, all way up till the moment that he died, it really make more sense of this.
LEMON: Our discussion continues right after this.
[21:28:54] LEMON: President Barack Obama following his meeting with the families of the Orlando victims, said they are pleading for an end to gun violence and it's far too easy to buy powerful weapons.
Back with me now, Cedric Alexander, Juliette Kayyem and Mark Nejame. So Mark, Donald Trump talked about the Orlando shooter tonight. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If we had, if we had people where the bullets were going in the opposite direction right smack between the eyes of maniac.
If some of those wonderful people had guns strapped right here, right to their waist or right to their ankle and this son of a bitch comes out and starts shooting.
[21:29:59] And one of the people in that room happened to have it and goes boom, boom, you know what, that would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight, folks. That would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So what he is saying and what a lot of people believe, Mark, is that if more people had guns in this kind of circumstance, it would actually save lives. How do you respond to that?
NEJAME: I think it's one of the most idiotic statements I've heard in my life. I've owned a number of entertainment venues, nightclubs and such, and what I'm hearing, the political propaganda I'm hearing is that you go ahead and arm everybody to the teeth in a bar or a nightclub, people that are drinking alcohol late at night and you want everybody armed, you're going to have a gun fight at the OK Corral and every bar and restaurant and nightclub in America. That's insanity.
LEMON: A quick response from each of you. Juliette, you first.
KAYYEM: Well, I mean, if it were true that the more were armed, the safer we would be, America would be the safest nation in the world. The other thing is Florida has some of the most permissive gun laws in the nation. It's just - it's factually inaccurate and in a dangerous, dangerous sort of lesson learned out of this tragedy.
LEMON: And for the law enforcement perspective, Cedric? ALEXANDER: Well, from where we stand, we certainly do support the Second Amendment. But I think the most important piece, and I just wrote this in a recent op-ed just posted up on CNN, the responsibility of being a gun owner. And there's a great deal of responsibility that goes with that. But if I could very quickly, Don, mention the fact that at this nightclub, that being a soft target like many of the soft targets, those type of establishments, many of them do it quite well, is being able to secure the front door so that as people come in, there is metal detectors, they are searching. It doesn't negate the fact you won't have an incident, but it certainly does reduces the likelihood of it and minimizes it.
But we're just going to have to take some more personal responsibility. But, when it comes to gun ownership and the use of those guns, is going to require one, is that if we're going to be a gun owner, we need to be a responsible gun owner, we need to be trained, we need to understand the consequences of having that weapon on us and being able to be trained and know when to use it and when not to use it. We all want to exercise that constitutional right.
LEMON: But in a place where people are drinking and, you know, and ...
ALEXANDER: Absolutely not, absolutely not. That kind of venue, and you'll find that in many states, Georgia being one of those states right here, you have an open carry. But most venues that sell alcohol will make it very clear you cannot come in to the establishment with a gun.
LEMON: Yeah, people get the fights of bumping into each other at a club or ...
LEMON: ... looking at someone cross eye.
LEMON: So listen, Juliette, General Stanley McChrystal, the former commander of the U.S. forces in Afghanistan and of the Joint Chiefs Special Operations Command, he wrote an op-ed in "The New York Times," today fascinating, calling access to high-powered guns a national crisis.
And here is what he wrote. He said, "In my life as a soldier and citizen, that I -- I have seen time and time again that inaction has dire consequences. In this case, one consequence of our leaders' inaction is that felons, domestic abusers and suspected terrorists have easy access to firearms. Some opponents of closing these gaps in our laws will continue to argue that dangerous people will obtain guns in our country no matter what, and therefore that taking steps to make it harder for them is fruitless. That is both poor logic and poor leadership."
Coming from someone, who is, as respected and knowledgeable as Stanley McChrystal one of his experience. That's a powerful statement. KAYYEM: It is. And thankfully many of us in national security, military, homeland security are beginning to recognize that we can talk about ideology and trying to stop people becoming radicalized in Syria policy till we're blue in the face. But then, we also need to talk about the access that people have, dangerous people have, to guns.
I am not pretending that a gun law is going to make this nation safe, but we always talk about layered security. The more we can do to make it harder for people with ill will to get guns ...
KAYYEM: ... that can kill a lot of people, the safer we will be. And that's all we're aiming for. It's just safer.
LEMON: Yeah, Juliette, Mark, Cedric, thank you. Enjoy your weekend.
NEJAME: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
LEMON: Coming up, the movement within the GOP to dump Trump.
[21:38:36] LEMON: Donald Trump addressing a fiery and loyal crowd in Texas tonight, but there are plenty in the GOP who aren't onboard the Trump train.
And I want to talk about that with Ken McKay, he's political director of Rebuilding America Now, a Super PAC, a pro-Trump Super PAC by the way, and Bakari Sellers, former member of the South Carolina House of Representatives and a Hillary Clinton Supporter, a conservative political analyst, Amy Holmes in the house in this corner, on the right corner of the screen.
OK. So, Ken, I want to play this again, this is Donald Trump tonight, he spoke about the tragedy in Orlando and he continues to say that if some of the people had guns there, there may have been a different conclusion. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If we had, if we had people where bullets were going in the opposite direction, right smack between the eyes of this maniac, if some of those wonderful people had guns strapped right here, right to their waist or right to their ankle, and this son of a bitch comes out and starts shooting.
[21:40:03] And one of the people in that room happened to have it and goes boom, boom, you know what, that would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight, folk. That would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Listen, I know, you know, Donald Trump is an animated man, he pass for his hands, but Ken gesturing between the eyes like that, I mean it just got back from Orlando, and the families there, the people are watching the news very closely, it is a very sensitive moment for the victims' families and for the people in Orlando especially. Do you think he is being insensitive in the wake of such tragedy?
KEN MCKAY, REBUILDING AMERICA NOW SUPER PAC POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No, I think he is showing the frustration and the anger that most of us. So if virtually all of us feel. You know, this is another situation where, you know, the Democrats have run out, they made sure to blame this tragedy on gun owners of America quicker than they blamed the Benghazi attack on terrorists. That's how quickly and how disgustingly political the Democrats are on this stuff. Every time ...
LEMON: They can ...
MCKAY: ... they come running out and blame it on America.
LEMON: I have to tell you, it's not just the Democrats.
MCKAY: And so I think he is frustrated?
LEMON: It is not just Democrats. And it's not really ...
MCKAY: I think he is frustrated.
LEMON: OK. I understand that. But it's not just Democrats who are saying that there're needs to be some sensible restrictions on what kinds of guns. It's also Republicans. It's also Independents. It's reasonable people. And what the families say is that we're tired of the political talking points. Republican families, Democratic families, Independent families who are all of them every family I spoke to said that they were pro-Second Amendment. They were tire of this whole gun thing being politicized.
And quietly frankly, they said that they were -- they thought that Donald Trump was politicizing it, most of them, even Republicans. So, how do you response to that? It's not just Democrats by saying, this is a Democratic talking point, you are politicizing it by doing that.
MCKAY: Well, how else am I supposed to respond? This is what they do, they're run in.
LEMON: You can respond by not having a partisan ...
MCKAY: ... in tragedy like that.
LEMON: You can respond by not having a partisan ...
BAKARI SELLERS, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA REPRESENTATIVE: But that's what they're doing. LEMON: ... in relying on partisan -- hang on, let me finish Bakari. Listen, I know some people may get upset with me, but every time I go to one of these things and sit with families who have lost loved ones, and they stare me in the eyes and they're crying, and I see women, the women that saw, the mothers who could not stop moving. They were so jittery, they hadn't slept, and they're telling me and that they cannot sleep at night, they cannot do anything. They're tired of turning on the television and hearing people bickering about left versus right when it comes to guns. They don't care if it was a terrorist act. They don't care of it was an act of faith. They don't care what it is. Their loved one is dead and they want something done about it. The one thing they say, the commonality in all of these mass shootings is the type of weapon that is used.
So, by saying that this is a left a Democratic thing, you are politicizing it that does not have to be your first response. Go ahead?
MCKAY: But that's the question you asked me, whether I thought that Mr. Trump was politicizing it or being offensive and I don't think he is. I think he is frustrated.
LEMON: I didn't ask if he was politicizing.
MCKAY: At the same thing that was awful.
LEMON: I ask you -- that's right. That's not what I asked you. The question is, I asked you if he was being insensitive at this point. I said nothing about politicizing it.
AMY HOLMES, CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ANALYST: If I ...
MCKAY: No, and I don't think he is being insensitive.
LEMON: OK. Thank you.
MCKAY: I don't think he is being insensitive. I think he is expressing the same frustration that the rest of us are feeling. These are awful events.
SELLERS: But Don.
MCKAY: There are people dead, there are families suffering. And the first thing that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama do is blame it on people who own guns in America instead of focusing on the real issue, the rise of terrorism, the rise of ISIS in the Middle East. That's happened under their administration. They have a mirror to look in here.
LEMON: Go ahead.
MCKAY: And stop looking in our closets to see what we are doing. I think it's -- I think he is that frustrated and I think everybody else is too.
LEMON: That's still ... MCKAY: I just disagree.
LEMON: That's still political talking point. So, go ahead.
SELLERS: It is.
HOLMES: I feel like, both sides are politicizing this, both the left and right in terms of the gun control debate. Where I am angry, and where I think we need to put our focus is on law enforcement and the FBI dropping the ball. As we are learning this week, Disney World contacted the FBI about Omar Mateen. They didn't know who he was, but they knew someone was casing Disney World. They were very concerned about it.
Only five to six weeks ago, a gun shop owner notice gun shop. They alerted the FBI that this man had come in asking very troubling questions about body armor, and requesting to get thousands of rounds of ammo. And speaking in a foreign language on the cell phone, and yet the FBI didn't even go to the gun shop to look at the surveillance video, find out if this is somebody that had been on their radar.
When I hear James Comey, the FBI Director who I understand to be a very honest, and decent, and honorable man, when he says that the FBI wouldn't have done anything differently, I think we have a huge problem.
[21:45:06] LEMON: OK. Let me jump in. So, Bakari, before we get in but can't -- why can't it -- why isn't just the one thing, and why is it just dealing with the FBI, can't it be the FBI, can it be ISIS, can it also sensitive ...
HOLMES: We have to move on all these fronts.
LEMON: Can also be sensible legislation when it comes to guns, can't it be a number of things? It doesn't have to be one mutually exclusive issue that was focus on?
HOLMES: The keyword is sensible and will the gun legislation actually stop these types of terror attacks. And the case of no fly, no buy, I actually agree with that, I support that.
LEMON: What I'm saying ...
HOLMES: But it wouldn't stop it.
LEMON: But, what I'm saying is not just -- listen, this was a terror attack according to everyone who was involved. It was a terror attack. But these also happen and they are not terror attacks. And that's one component that sort of consistent in all these.
Bakari, go ahead.
SELLERS: Well, I mean, I just have to respond to Ken who gave one of the more, you know, as a non response something I've heard in a long period of time, and insensitive responses to your question. When you look at what happened in Aurora in Colorado, when look at what happened in Sandy Hook, when you look at what happened in Charleston, you're not talking people who are Islamic, radical Jihadists or radical Islamic terrorists as Donald Trump wants to call them. That is not what we're talking about. We are literary talking about people, even the Orlando shooter who was born right here in America.
So that doesn't fix the problem. And I have a CWP. I'm a gun owner in this country. I'm a concealed weapons permit holder. But even I can tell you at this point this has gotten out of hand. And we have kids today who are five, six, seven years old who have seen so many mass murders. And to blame it on this, this high bound narrow minded approach to divide this country against the largest religion in the world is probably one of the more disingenuous responses I think I've heard on national television.
HOLMES: Because Bakari ...
LEMON: Hang on. Hang on.
HOLMES: I can also prospect ...
LEMON: ... we'll continue ...
HOLMES: ... the California did have a ban on assault weapons, and you still had San Bernardino.
LEMON: Yeah. We'll continue the conversation right after the break.
[21:50:59] LEMON: Back now with Ken McKay, Bakari Sellers and Amy Holmes.
So, Ken I think you need to respond of having being called asinine and then I think you probably want to respond.
MCKAY: Yeah, I appreciate it. You know listen, I was Chief of Staff to Governor in Rhode Island Governor Kay Cherry when the station nightclub fire happen and 100 people were killed. And after that tragedy, the legislature got together and decided that we needed a stronger fire code.
And I think that was probably accurate but it went to so far the reforms went so far that homeless shelters and the churches could not comply and the services were cut off to people who needed them. And to say it is disingenuous to be worried about what legislators will do with the energy of a tragedy behind them is, you know, is quite frankly short sided. So I, you know, I kind of I don't appreciate it first of all, I think it's my response is perfectly rational.
It's just is just disigenuine to go to the scene of a tragedy like this and blame the gun owners of America while they're still identifying the victims. If there are a number of solutions, there are numbers of solutions and all of me to be talking about. But I don't think just running to the scene with the same old tired arguments, is the best way to handle it. And with respect to the other tragedies that have happen your right they are not all terrorist but they are insane people. And I just heard ...
SELLERS: They're not insane.
MCKAY: ... this every time to hear this.
SELLERS: They are the not insane-- they are not insane? Dylan Roof was not insane. Dylan Roof was a racist. And what if I told you today Ken that you can't walk into the same gun store that Dylan Roof walked into, one year ago to today, and you can get the same weapon with the same criminal record, and as long as the FBI took longer than three days and you didn't deserve the gun, you could get the same gun. Your remarks simply don't match with reality. We have a gun problem in this country.
MCKAY: And they don't match with your opinion for sure.
SELLERS: And that is something that is a fact.
MCKAY: And they don't match with Barack Obama's opinion or ...
LEMON: One at a time, pleases? One at a time. And Amy, I will let you get in.
SELLERS: Now I mean, I mean it's very -- difficult to have a discussion with someone who purposefully wants to interject politics.
LEMON: Who disagrees with you?
SELLERS: When were actually trying when were actually trying to celebrate the lives. Remember the lives and I'm tired of every single moment, Ken, you want me to have another we stand with Orlando. You want me to have another we pray for Charleston, but now we have to have some action and I refuse to sit on my hands and let you just say, oh, Donald Trump go shoot them in the head, bang-bang.
HOLMES: I agree that we have take action, but I look at it in terms of the anti-terrorism policy, and that is where I'm directing my ire and the anger over what is obviously failed policy. We had San Bernardino, and, you know, I mentioned before the break, and California does have a ban on assault weapon, and those two killers they illegally modified their weapons to mow down 14 people.
Meanwhile, the wife who came into the country originally from Pakistan she was able to somehow passed three different security checks when she had been a member of a very controversial mosque in Pakistan that's considered radical.
So I actually think that there is a confusion of the categories. Yes, the shooter in Orlando was a mass shooter, and I think policy directed towards mass shooting and how do we reduce them is absolutely critical, but I think we have to take seriously what we are doing to stop Jihadist.
I find it absolutely appalling and astonishing that our media in one week found out more about Omar Mateen than the FBI has in three years. We have discovered LEMON: When they had leads.
HOLMES: When they had leads. We have discovered that he wasn't angry Jihad spouting, punk since the third grade. This is ridiculous to me, and it is ridiculous that he was not on the terrorism watch list permanently.
LEMON: I want to get back to something that Ken said, because a lot of people are concerned about this. A lot of people are concern about the slippery slope. He said, you know, when you have when you sort of animated by what is going on now that some people are concerned that it may go too far. Is there any credence to that, that maybe I guess the concern is that all of a sudden your guns are going to be taken away or overtime it will just be ...
SELLER: Because yeah, you know, what ...
LEMON: Does anybody believe the Second Amendment whoever go away in this country ...
[21:55:03] SELLERS: You know what, I believe Barack Obama got elect and now we're 7 1/2 years in, and I'm still waiting on him to take our guns, because that was the talking point, I'm sure that seven years ago Ken was saying the same thing that our guns are going to be taken away.
But the fact that the matter is Omar Mateen was an American, Dylan Roof was an American, John Lewis Deere was an American, and Adam Lanza was an American, like you guys are perverting the point to the fact that you're not focusing on the real issue. We have a problem in this country, and if you keep trying to make it something else it will never fix it.
MCKAY: That is what I think that the Democrats are doing, making it something else. This is exactly what they are doing, and they run to the scene and holler. It's the Second Amendment, and there are all of these other factors that need to be addressed.
HOLMES: And I would suggest to you, that there are a variety of opinions, including the father of one of the victims in Orlando, Mark Bandeau who wrote an open letter to Detroit News saying, that he wished that someone inside of the gun had a gun to shoot Omar Mateen down.
LEMON: All right thank you, panel. I appreciate it.
LEMON: And in the next hour the deadly mass shooting inside of the Charleston Church, one year later we're going to talk to the survivors and the church leaders.
LEMON: Breaking news. New clues that the Orlando killer was preparing to die and months before committing the deadliest mass murder in U.S. history.
This is "CNN Tonight". I'm Don Lemon.
[22:00:05] Omar Mateen putting us finance in order before launching his attack adding his wife's name to his life insurance policy and making sure she had access to his bank account.
The FBI scrutinizing surveillance video --