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Trump $40 Million behind Clinton on Fundraising; Clinton Bashes Trump's Business Record; "Free The Delegates" Aims To Dump Trump; Unbinding GOP Delegates: Pipe Dream Possibility?; New Details In Orlando Shooting; Hundreds Attend Funeral For Amanda Alvear. Aired 8- 9p ET

Aired June 21, 2016 - 20:30   ET


[20:00:09] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. John Berman here, in for Anderson tonight.

Breaking news, with two presidential candidates trading shots over three things you're never supposed to discuss in polite company. Religion, money and politics.

Donald Trump questioning Hillary Clinton's faith. Secretary Clinton questioning his finances. , Trump defending his unorthodox campaign downplaying the fact that it barely has enough cash on hand to run a decent congressional race telling one interviewer he's willing to keep writing checks to pay the bills, perhaps another $50 million worth, and telling Nora O'Donnell on CBS that Secretary Clinton is taking, his words, blood money from campaign donors unlike him, even though both are holding fundraisers tonight.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't want to devote the rest of my life to raising money from people. And you know, when she raises this money, every time she raises money she's making deals, saying, could I be the ambassador to this, can I do that, make sure my business is taken care of. I mean, give me a break. All the money she's raising, that's blood money. That's blood money.

Look, she's getting tremendous amounts of money from Wall Street. She's going to take care of Wall Street. She's getting tremendous amounts of money from lots of people. She's going to take care of all those people.


BERMAN: Pretty strong stuff. And that's not all. We have new poll numbers that show a tighter race than Hillary Clinton might like but also truly staggering levels of dissatisfaction among Republicans with nearly 50 percent saying they would rather have a different nominee than Donald Trump.

All that and more ahead this hour. We begin with Jim Acosta on the campaign money trail.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite a lifetime of cutting deals that made him billions of dollars, Donald Trump is so short of campaign cash, GOP jaws are dropping. But don't worry, says Trump.

TRUMP: This weekend we had a very big fundraising weekend. It's not revealed yet, but we raised a lot of money.

ACOSTA: Still, consider the numbers. According to federal campaign filings, Hillary Clinton finished the month of May with $42 million in the bank. Trump ended up with a tiny fraction of that haul. Just $1.3 million.

Other glaring findings this month, 17 percent of the campaign spending was dished out to Trump-related entities, like when the campaign rents space from a Trump property for an event and $35,000 went to somebody called Draper Sterling.

JON HAMM, ACTOR: It's right on strategy. It's exactly what they wanted.

ACOSTA: An expenditure with a name reminiscent of the advertising agency in the hit show "Mad Men."

Trump released a statement on his fundraising, noting his appeals to donors are just beginning, adding, "If need be, there could be unlimited cash on hand, as I would put up my own money." Earlier in the day, he blamed Republicans who haven't rallied behind his campaign.

TRUMP: They don't want to come on. They will probably eventually come on. Honestly, if they don't, it's just fine. I can win it either way.

ACOSTA: Nothing to see here, added the RNC.

SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST AND COMMUNICATIONS DIRECT, RNC: I appreciate everyone's concern over the state of our party. We're doing just great.

ACOSTA: Trump is signaling a more aggressive stage of the campaign is just ahead. His campaign is blasting out e-mails and hitting social media to counter Clinton's latest attacks, responding faster than it has before.

TRUMP: And she has been there watching.

ACOSTA: And Trump advisers are hopeful it's a change for the better after the firing of campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. The candidate was also out shoring up support among evangelical leaders gathered in New York.

TRUMP: Christianity, I owe so much to it in so many ways, through life, through having incredible children, through so many other things, but I also owe it from frankly standing here, because I -- the evangelical vote was mostly gotten by me.


BERMAN: All right. Jim Acosta joins us right now.

Jim, the Trump campaign announcing it is adding staff tonight. What can you tell us?

ACOSTA: That's right. The Trump campaign announces in an e-mail earlier this evening that they're naming a few individuals to some key positions inside the campaign. At the top of the campaign, we should point, handling political affairs across the country as well digital engagement, creating Web sites and so forth, and we saw a sign of that earlier this evening, John. The Trump campaign announced that they had just launched a Web site called

That Web site is not working just yet, we should point. It's going to be working in the coming days, according to Trump campaign. But it is a sneak preview of the coming attraction which is tomorrow when Donald Trump is set to hold a speech here in New York City and where he is going to go right after Hillary Clinton. It is a speech that he was supposed to hold after the Orlando that occurred about a week ago but the bulk of that speech was postponed until tomorrow.

And, John, I can tell you from talking to different campaign sources inside Trump world that there is a hunger for almost a new communications overhaul inside this campaign. When I talked to a key adviser earlier today as to whether or not we're going to see new communications staffers join the campaign shortly. A Trump adviser told me, god, I hope so. So they definitely -- there's a feeling inside the campaign that they want that and they want it now -- John.

[20:05:05] BERMAN: You know, Jim, I've heard that political cliche reboot a few times today.

Jim Acosta, thanks so much.

ACOSTA: That's right.

BERMAN: Now the new polling we mentioned at the top of the show, showing a tight race. Tom Foreman here to lay it all out for us -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. Here's the big headline. Clinton is beating Trump 47 percent to 42 percent in our latest poll, with 22 percent of registered voters saying they still could change their minds and you can see some of that uncertainty reflected when we add in the Libertarian and Green Party candidates who picked up 9 percent and 7 percent.

But in the fight between Trump and Clinton, he has some advantage on key issues here. On the economy 51 percent would prefer his handling of it to Clinton at 43 percent. Only -- we move on to gun policy, again he has an advantage of 50 percent to 43 percent. And then you go down to terrorism again he has the edge, 48 percent to 45 percent, although that's within the sampling error.

She, however, seems to pretty much run the board on everything aside from these really big ticket issues that people are worried about out there. If you look at immigration, foreign policy, Supreme Court, she has a substantial advantage on all of those. And when it gets to women's rights, look at this, 70 percent to 23 percent for Trump down here. Now beyond that voters still do not trust either one of them very much. More honest and trustworthy 45 percent he is, 37 percent think she is, neither 17 percent.

But despite that this may be the number that matters the most. Who do you think is going to win? 55 percent think she's going to win, only 38 percent for him -- John.

BERMAN: All right. These are national numbers, Tom. As we know what really matters are the numbers in the battle ground states. What do those look like today?

FOREMAN: Yes. Then you get to the electoral question. Quinnipiac has just completed a poll about that. Here's Florida. One of the big ones out there. Huge prize, many electoral votes as New York. Clinton 47 percent, Trump only 39 percent. Big advantage there. Pennsylvania, 42 percent to 41 percent. Very close. And then in Ohio deadlocked at 40 percent.

If you're wondering what happens if you add those third-party candidates, well, not a lot changes in the sum total here in that Clinton continues to win in Florida 42 percent, in Pennsylvania continues to win 39 percent and interestingly enough picks up Ohio by 2 percentage points. So that's where they stand in the polls right now, John. Getting closer to the vote in November.

BERMAN: All right, Tom Foreman. Thanks so much.

In addition to the poll numbers and the money numbers, people are also talking about some questions that Donald Trump raised today about Hillary Clinton's faith, so religion, too, the trifecta there. Also President Obama's faith.

Joining us to talk is Hillary Clinton's supporter and former Bill Clinton senior adviser, Richard Socarides, CNN political director David Chalian is here. Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany, conservative Trump critic, Tara Setmayer, New York Trump delegate John Jay LaValle, and former Mitt Romney senior staffer Kevin Madden.

Kevin, last to be mentioned, first to get a question here. I want to take you down memory lane. Four years ago, May 2012, Mitt Romney raised, what, $23.4 million in May. He has $17 million in the bank right now. That's versus $3 million raised for Donald Trump. $1.3 million in the bank. So Mitt Romney raised a lot more and had a lot more at this time. What does the money tell you right now?

MADDEN: Well, the other thing that's important to remember is that it takes money to raise money. The infrastructure that you need to build a small dollar program and the infrastructure that you need to canvass for large donors and then have events, state by state, all the way throughout the country in order to build up -- in order to build up the war chest that you're going to need to go all the way through to the general election.

All of that costs a tremendous amount of money. So with $1.2 million cash on hand, Donald Trump is going to have a very hard time just spending -- just building the infrastructure that he needs to raise even more. That advantage that Hillary Clinton now is not one to dismiss. When you look at those numbers that Tom Foreman went through, places like Pennsylvania, places like Ohio that are deadlocked right now, the way to win deadlocked states is to have the money and the infrastructure that you need to turn persuadable voters into actual voters.

So Hillary Clinton -- you know, and any times you'll see this. Campaigns will tell you that a good ground game, a good infrastructure is worth four points. That could be the difference in the electoral map on the -- in the general election.

BERMAN: All right. Kayleigh McEnany, Donald Trump put out his first fundraising e-mail today to supporters promising to match donations up to $2 million. A good sign I imagine you think but the question is could he have done this seven weeks ago? I mean, would this have been helpful after he wrapped up the nomination essentially in Indiana?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Sure, there's a good argument where he should have started fundraising sooner. Absolutely. But the key is he's doing it now. I think he's going to be prove to be very successful with this.

[20:10:04] And also it's worth mentioning that today, you know, we hear over and over again Donald Trump is breaking the political rules but he has broken the political rules all the way to the Republican nomination. Not only that, with the most votes in the Republican Party history. So he's broken the rules. His opponents outspent him, three $100 million campaigns from Cruz, from Bush and from Rubio. He spent just half what they did. He had a much leaner staff and yet he got to this point. So I trust his instincts and I think he's getting on the right page.

BERMAN: Tara, what about that? You know, he did essentially win the primaries. He won the nomination. He's the presumed the nominee doing it his way.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He won the primary with the plurality and still let it be known that more Republicans voted against Donald Trump than voted for him, but you know, Donald Trump -- you can say maybe he was lucky. It was people were just like wow, this is something new, we're going for this guy, as opposed to, OK, that's fine, for seven weeks there was gross negligence if you're going to run a real presidential campaign what Donald Trump has done for these past weeks since he's been the presumptive nominee is absolute incompetence, negligence, and is not what a serious candidate does.

I mean, you know, back in -- let's see, I think it was May 2011 he told "Good Morning America" when he was still flirting with the idea of running in 2012 that he would spend $600 million of his own money to run for -- to run in 2012. $600 million. He hasn't spent a fraction of that. He's putting a cap now on how much money he'll match dollar for dollar.

We've seen in the FEC reports that he's been paying himself and his companies and his kids and reimbursing them. One-fifth of the money raised has gone to Trump's own companies. So he's enriching himself and his businesses through this. So this is something that the American people really need to know. Is he serious about running for the presidency or is he serious about enriching himself as he does that?

BERMAN: John, I want to shift gears if I can from money to religion right now because Donald Trump was speaking to evangelical leaders today and he questioned Hillary Clinton's faith. He said, we don't know a lot about her faith and her religion. And he also mentioned President Obama here. I want to play that clip for you.


TRUMP: She's been in the public eye for years and years, and yet there's no -- there's nothing out there. There's like nothing out there. It's going to be an extension of Obama but it's going to be worse because with Obama you had your guard up. With Hillary you don't.


BERMAN: What's he talking about, John? With Obama you had your guard up, with Hillary you don't. Why do you have your guard up with Obama in terms of religion? What's he saying there and why don't you with Hillary? What's going on here?

JOHN JAY LAVALLE, NEW YORK TRUMP DELEGATE: Well, I think one of the cornerstone's of, you know, Donald Trump's popularity is one, he is a family man. Two, there is a breakdown of the American family. It also is responsible for the breakdown of America, of our economy, of our positioning in this world. Those are facts as far as I'm concerned. And Donald Trump -- you see how he works with his family.

BERMAN: He was talking about -- wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

LAVALLE: Exactly.

BERMAN: Tell me what --

LAVALLE: What he's saying to you -- everything he said is correct. What do we know? Nothing.

BERMAN: I don't think --


BERMAN: Hang on. Let Richard -- I'll let Richard Socarides answer this. SETMAYER: A family man? Is that really the line you guys are going

to take with Donald Trump?

LAVALLE: A line?

SETMAYER: Married three times, cheated on two of his wives, embarrassed his first wife in public. You're from New York. You know what he did to Ivana the first time around.

LAVALLE: Look at his children.

SETMAYER: And then bragged about his sexual exploits.

LAVALLE: They are amazing. Are you kidding me?

SETMAYER: He didn't raise them. His wife --


LAVALLE: I wish the parents in this country raised their children the way he did.

SETMAYER: A family man is not --

LAVALLE: That is the --

BERMAN: Hang on, hang on, one at a time. One at a time.


BERMAN: What I want to do is you're talking about faith. You, John Jay LaValle, just said you don't know about Hillary Clinton's faith.

Richard -- what are you talking about we don't know much? Richard, you've been to church with her. Tell me about her faith.

RICHARD SOCARIDES, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I mean, I don't know that I can say anything about any of this. I mean, to suggest that Donald Trump is a person of strong moral values and a strong moral code, I mean, it's kind of laughable on its face. Right? I mean, he doesn't even bill himself as someone like that. But Hillary, I think, during the primaries talked very eloquently and very movingly at some of those town halls, I think at one of the CNN town halls about her faith and the role that faith has played in her decision making and the -- and issues like compassion and humanity.

And a lot of the reasons why she's formulated the policies she's had over the years for children and families and refugees. And I think she spoke, I mean, I think, on CNN town halls at least twice. She spoke very specifically and eloquently about the role that her faith has played in her -- in the policy issues, in the policies she's stood for throughout her life. But I think, you know, I personally as someone who knows her and who has worked with her know that she's a person of exceptionally strong faith and when she was first lady we worshipped at the same church, at the same Methodist church, where she often went. You know, she is someone who does this privately. When she went to

church on Sunday she did not make a big deal out of it. She did not bring, you know, a lot of press coverage or whatever but she was there just like anybody else.

BERMAN: And, John, why is questioning somebody's faith fair game in politics?

LAVALLE: Well, first of all, Donald Trump -- you know, everyone says, Donald Trump, you've got to bring the party together. So here's Donald Trump speaking to religious people, Republicans, and he's bringing people together and he's talking about the difference between the Republican Party's perspective of faith and the Democrat Party's perspective of faith.

[20:15:12] And there is no question that Donald Trump is going to get that bloc. A lot of those individuals, you're not reporting on this. That they all left there and said this was a very productive meeting.

SOCARIDES: You know, the amazing thing --

LAVALLE: This is very positive. And what a great step in the right direction.

SOCARIDES: The other amazing contradiction in this is that in the same week Mr. Trump went to the evangelicals and said, like, you know, trust me, I'm your guy and that was the same week where he was saying to gays and lesbians, trust me, I'm your guy. So, to me, it just proves that again, this is a guy who will say anything to anybody to get elected. And no one will hold him accountable.


SETMAYER: He is pandering --

LAVALLE: To all Americans.

BERMAN: Tara, last word.

SETMAYER: This is the same guy who held up a bible and said Two Corinthians, and I read my bible every single day, and doesn't even know that it's not Two Corinthians. He will say whatever he needs to say. The same guy who said in front of another faith organization that he doesn't ask for forgiveness from God because he doesn't do anything he thinks he needs to be forgiven for. And he like -- you know, his wine and his little cracker.

Give me a break. It was a pander today, just like he was pandering to the LGBT community. That's what he does. He says whatever he needs to do to get votes because he's a con artist.

BERMAN: All right. Guys, the good thing is you're all coming back. We can talk more about all this in a second. There is a lot more to talk about including the poll number we mentioned at the top 48 percent of Republicans says they would rather have someone as their nominee right now. And next, Hillary Clinton going after Donald Trump right where it say

-- the polling says that he is strongest, handling the economy. We'll talk about whether that will yield political dividends.


BERMAN: As we mentioned both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton spent the evening fundraising. He had at a swank Manhattan restaurant, interestingly enough, and billionaire Michael Bloomberg's officer tower.

[20:20:01] She at a D.C. law firm. And the breaking news Donald Trump accused her of taking, quote, "blood money." He also said the Secretary Clinton would have no idea how to run the economy. He was responding to a blistering attack from her earlier today.

CNN's Brianna Keilar has that.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary Clinton hitting Donald Trump on his experience as a businessman.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's written a lot of books about business. They all seem to end at Chapter 11.


KEILAR: Taking aim at him for going into bankruptcy with four of his corporations and for once calling himself the king of debt.

CLINTON: The king of debt has no real for making college debt payable back or making college debt-free. This is a crisis that affects so many of our people. He has no credible plan for rebuilding our infrastructure, apart from the wall that he wants to build.

KEILAR: But Trump is embracing the moniker, tweeting, "I am the king of debt. That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S."

Clinton's campaign also put up a new Web site in conjunction with her economic speech, the, a play on his bestselling book, "The Art of the Deal." And releasing a video about Trump's unsuccessful business ventures.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Have you ever heard of Trump Steaks? Have you ever heard of Trump Vodka?

TRUMP: You know what? You know what? Look at Trump Steaks.

RUBIO: All of these companies that he's ruined.

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Whatever happened to Trump Airlines?

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Trump Games, Trump Travel, Trump Ice.

JOHN OLIVER, HOST, "LAST WEEK TONIGHT WITH JOHN OLIVER": "Trump" magazine, which folded, "Trump World" magazine, which also folded.

ROMNEY: And Trump mortgage.

KEILAR: And though Clinton herself has been criticized for her own ties to Wall Street, she slammed Trump for his ties to the financial sector.

CLINTON: Trump would take us back to where we were before the crisis. He'd rig the economy for Wall Street again. Well, that will not happen on my watch. I guarantee you.

KEILAR: In the past month Clinton has portrayed Trump as a danger to U.S. foreign policy and security. Repeating that same theme today.

CLINTON: Just like he shouldn't have his finger on the button, he shouldn't have his hands on our economy.

KEILAR: Brianna Keilar, CNN, Columbus, Ohio.


BERMAN: All right. Let's talk about this now. Joining the panel, BET News host and CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill.

Marc, you know, last in, first question to you. Notable that the first two general election speeches that Hillary Clinton gives is not really about her at all.


BERMAN: About Donald Trump. The first one on foreign policy, now on the economy. Is that a de facto admission that she's better off not having this election be about her?

HILL: I think so. I mean, if you begin to articulate your own foreign policy after a questionable record as secretary of state at least in the minds of many voters, you can end up in a very vulnerable position. If you start talking about your position on the economy when people have said you have too close of a tie to Wall Street, you can put yourself in a bad position.

Donald Trump is so vulnerable right now, it's much easier to just point at his missteps and mistakes and shortcomings than it is to point out your own record. I think it makes for some really bad discourse, though.

BERMAN: There's a word for that. It's called deflecting.

HILL: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this is really a race to the bottom. They both have very high unfavorables. They both have very -- these large looming questions about their records. So she's saying, hey, I might be bad but he's worse. I'm your best option. BERMAN: Richard Socarides, what about that? You know, trust and

honesty, the economy, terrorism, those are all issues Donald Trump is leading. They are not insignificant issues.

SOCARIDES: Yes. I mean, obviously I disagree with Marc here about her record. I mean, I think she had quite a distinguished record as secretary of state and had a distinguished record in government and laid out a lot of very specific policy proposals during the primary. But I think that this is an important time, you know, as far as campaign strategy goes to define your opponent. And I think that it was -- it was Barack Obama's ability to define Mitt Romney early on in June that really, you know, made the difference for -- for Obama. For President Obama. So I think that strategically this is a very important thing to do.

And I think that Trump has had, you know, I mean, he spent the last month attacking the press, attacking this judge in a contract case that he's involved in and this federal judge, calling him a Mexican when he's born in America. And then -- and then, you know, talking -- going against an entire religious faith, and talking about building a wall, I mean, there's a lot to go after. And I think what's happening and what you see in the poll numbers in the CNN poll, I mean, to be ahead five points now here nationally is a big deal.

BERMAN: Yes, but -- yes, but, he's tied in Ohio and Pennsylvania. And if it really is as bad as it's been, as bad as Richard said it's been the last seven weeks, it's not that bad for Donald Trump. He's in a position where he could turn this around, David.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right. I mean, if you look at the totality of polling over the last couple of months, three months or so, you'll see a bit of a floral forming for Donald Trump to some degree, somewhere in that 39, 44 range. It's sort of where he's been in all of these polls. But there's something else Hillary Clinton is doing right now that I think is worth noting because it's not in her speeches. But it is in her paid advertising.

[20:25:02] She's also keenly aware of where her unfavorables are because a chunk of their advertising right now is about trying to paint a positive portrait of her so while she's been doing these takedowns of Donald Trump in these speeches and amplifying with the campaign, a lot of where they're putting their money right now is trying to remind people about her career and all the different positions she's had, her work on family issues and women issues, trying to soften the edges a bit of her because they know there are unfavorables and the trustworthy number you cite are still a problem that they have to work on.


SOCARIDES: And you would have been right. The trend is towards her, right?

CHALIAN: Well, I certainly agree that both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton have started consolidating their parties.


CHALIAN: And that -- but it is clearly a competitive race.

BERMAN: All right. I want --


BERMAN: We got a minute and 30 left so just quick answers if I can.

Tara, notable as you were watching Hillary Clinton's attacks on Donald Trump, been all the same things we heard in the Republican primaries. I mean, not only -- literally. And we heard Marco Rubio there. We heard the other candidates with those attacks. They obviously didn't work then so why now?

SETMAYER: Well, she's also trying to re-introduce the issue to people who are starting to pay attention now and coming from her. And, you know, appealing to independents that are starting to know kind of pay attention to what's going on. But I find it interesting that, you know, no one can seem -- the reason why she's going after Trump is yes, he's vulnerable now. Yes, now is the time to define, but it's also because her record as secretary of state is abysmal.

Where are her accomplishments? Russia, failure. Libya, failure. Benghazi, four dead Americans. You know, we have ISIS. We -- where were her accomplishments? She doesn't have any.

BERMAN: And this is Donald Trump, Kayleigh --

SETMAYER: So that's why she has to go after Trump this way.

BERMAN: This is what Donald Trump, whether you agree with that or not, I'm sure that Richard, you know, and Marc would disagree with that.

SETMAYER: But he didn't name --


BERMAN: But she's giving a speech about Hillary -- he's giving a speech about Hillary Clinton tomorrow.

MCENANY: Sure. And it's very important for him to stick to these issues, one, the economy, that's another area where she has an abysmal record. She was asked how she'd be different from Obama and she said I'd create green jobs so essentially her economic policy is Obama's. The worst recession we've had -- recovery I should say in five decades. There's a reason that 60 percent of Americans still feel like they're in a recession because the policies on the ground have made -- feel that way in terms of wages, real unemployment for minorities and millennials. He's going to hammer her on the economy. And I think you're going to see those.

BERMAN: I will always say that Obama has a net positive approval rating right now, which is a little bit unusual for a president this time a year so maybe she won't mind being tied to him. John, I want to give you the last word here.


BERMAN: Is this a reboot for the Trump campaign? What are we going to see different from Donald Trump starting right now?

LAVALLE: Not at all. It's not a reboot. Donald Trump is going to win this race. By the way, you talk about the polls. A year ago he was 24 points down to Hillary. A month ago he was 13 points down to Hillary. Today you're saying he's five. Guess what? I'm pretty happy if I'm a Trump supporter. It's moving in his director. She fails on the economy, on terrorism and in trust. The three most important things that a candidate could have. The rest of it, it's all statistic, right noise, this is nothing. It means nothing. Donald Trump is poised and ready to go.

We're having the same conversations today that we had during the primary. He's not raising enough money. He doesn't have the right --

BERMAN: We got to go. We got to go, John.


BERMAN: The difference in the primary was he led in the polls the whole way. He's not right now. So thank you all for being part of this discussion.

Just ahead for us, a group called Free the Delegates says it has the support of hundreds of Republican delegates who want to be unbound from having to vote for Donald Trump in next month's convention. Do they have enough traction to pull off some kind of coup?

Plus breaking news in the Pulse shooting investigation. Investigators say the gunman went inside the nightclub hours before the massacre then left. Plus new details about what his wife has now revealed.


[20:32:28] BERMAN: Beside the lack of cash and staffing, shake up and type whole numbers, there is another speed bump blooming for the Trump campaign and there's to organized a coup at the Republican convention now less than a month away but were still very much under weigh, group called "Free the Delegates" is hoping to persuade enough convention, rules, committee members to unbind delegates for having a vote Trump on the convention floor.

Joining me now is Kendal Unruh, founder of "Free the Delegates" and the member of the Republican Convention Rules Committee, also Steve Lonegan the National Spokesman for the Courageous Conservative Pac isn't advising "Free the Delegates" and back with us again for a third straight segment, CNN political director David Chalian.

And Kendal I want to start with you, because what it seemed that if your efforts picked up a key voice of support today Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker himself a one time presidential candidate, he was asked to comment on Steven Paul Ryan name where he would never stand in the way and people voting their conscience at the convention.

Scott Walker seemed to take that event further let's listen.


SCOTT WALKER, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think his comments are legitimate. I think historically and not just this year the delegates are able are and should be able to vote the way they see fit.


BERMAN: Scott Walker said delegates should be able to vote the way they see fit, that is everything, you want correct, so how important is the support Kendal?

KENDAL UNRUH, FOUNDER, FREE THE DELEGATES: Well, it's kind of argue against people voting their free conscience that's why our nation was founded as the cornerstone of America. It's why the programs came here, that's why we have a Bill of Rights and it's very systemic to every single American individuals so who was going, it's like the optic were saying that we need to shutdown the free will and the free conscience of people.

That said if that has been done historical at conventions but not because it was legally allowed to do it at conventions but because the delegates thought that they were bound and basically what are moving and saying is to take the kryptonite, you have the kryptonite, you can activate it, just don't be bound. And we have three Supreme Court cases that have backed that up. We have 200 historical precedents that have also given us the ability to stand in that unbind and that's what this movement is all about.

BERMAN: Steve, I don't want to talk to David exactly about what the rules and this was the second year but first I want to ask you this, we all admit this is unlikely to be successful. You know, you have a shot -- I'm not thinking of you don't have shot but it's unlikely to be successful. Given that -- given that Donald Trump is still likely to be the nominee, isn't this going to damage him and do you even care?

STEVE LONEGAN, COURAGEOUS CONSERVATIVE PAC NATIONAL SPOKESMAN: No, the method in our favor, John. It's not unlikely. I think it's likely to succeed. Let me tell you why, the many thing donors ask and especially big donors and pundits ask for his -- what's your pathway to victory.

[20:35:02] This was Donald Trump has, he's losing in every single poll and losing significantly, he has right and no money and he's raising the money. He has no campaign organization. He has no message but he has the big number. He'll tell you all about how 25 percent Republicans bout $14 million on which by the way a big chunk were not even Republicans voted for him in the primary but half of the Republicans in the country which is about double that, don't want him to be the candidate. And most delegate but God knows that.


BERMAN: Steve, I'll be back to you, but our polls just we asked that and 48 percent of the people we polled, 48 percent of the Republican said at this point they would prefer someone else, but David Challian, even with that 40 million people voted for Donald Trump to the primary, even with the 40 million people there are rules and traditions in place for the convention which make is awfully difficult for that one.

DAVID CHALLIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right, so can you, you decided the case law in the past and it is true that there is case law that errs on the side of the convention rules dictate more than state law but right now, the rules are that they are bound.

So they would and so what would need to happen, what would need to happen is that the Convention Rules Committee would have to allow for the unbinding and then that would have to go to the floor of the convention for the majority of all delegates to vote that is under the current rules, they're not unbound.

UNRUH: Well ...

CHALIAN: It would need a rule change and remember, I just, I want to point out for audience, this is why I think the hill is so tough to climb for you guys is because remember even if there are a lot of Ted Cruz supporters who are were willing to go with someone else on the second ballot even though there are a lot of delegates that will be at this convention that are not Trump die hards, a majority of them are coming with the notion to supporting Donald Trump. And you need a majority to change those from doing that.

LONEGAN: I don't agree with you on that at rule.

UNRUH: Well, I'm a member of the rules committee and that's the conscious clause that I'm sponsoring is yes it will have to get pass through the rules and but however, we can also do a minority report that's a lower threshold and once it's passed to the floor, yes, of course it's up to the delegates to vote but there's ...

CHALIAN: The majority delegates on the floor.

UNRUH: ... that but there's still floor action that we can take and that is when the delegation chair actually submits the vote tally they can actually require a whole tally of that.

BERMAN: Quickly, how many rules committee members do you have now? 110 members of the committee, do you have 57 votes, the path rules?

UNRUH: Not at this time.

BERMAN: How many do you have?

UNRUH: We've got 12 and 4 soft.

BERMAN: How many do you have over all delegates would you mind, I've read 400 total delegates. UNRUH: We have 400 and that it was a just as blast Sunday but I will tell you that this has momentum and it's picking up traction and we've tapped into the silent majority that is out there. We tapped into the 7 out of 10 that don't want to vote for Donald Trump and 60 percent in the primaries did not vote for Donald Trump and we're representing that 60 percent that want another option.

BERMAN: Steve, we get your point, take it the last word.

LONEGAN: Those delegates at that convention represent the entire Republican Party and it was the best of that party, they have an obligation to pick the candidate that will defeat Hillary Clinton and uphold Republican Party. That's clearly not Donald Trump.

Those delegates I do not actually but it will go let to Republican Party go over the cliff and on there way, forget a pathway to victory. They're have no clue, the Republican Party right now is on a highway to hell. That's where there at it.

BERMAN: All right, thanks so much for being with us. Still you know a big hill to climb as David Challian says right there.

One programming is for us is not just the Democrats and Republicans, tomorrow night at 9:00 eastern. We're going to host a Libertarian Town Hall. Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson is running with Bell Well, they will sit down, answer questions from voters and CNN anchor Chris Cuomo, do not miss that.

Just ahead breaking news in the Orlando shooting investigation, the investigator say the gunman went to the Pulse Nightclub not once but twice the night of the massacre.

Plus what the shooter's wife has revealed about her husband state of mind that night and what he took with him when he left their house.


[20:42:43] BERMAN: Breaking news tonight, the wake of the Orlando mass shooting lead by been investigators are piecing together the gunman's movements and the days and hours leading up to the massacre at the Pulse Nightclub.

Now, they say the shooter had been to the nightclub earlier the same day of the attack. He left and came back.

CNN Justice Correspondent, Pamela Brown joins us with the latest. Pamela, what are you learning here?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We've learned John, that apparently, he left his house in a fit of rage. He was very angry when he left his house that Saturday with a bag full of guns and he went to Pulse Nightclub.

And then, you know, he went in, he got his wrist band, he paid the entry fee so he was acting as a regular customer. And then at some point, he left the nightclub and for two hours, I'm being told was going around the city. There's no really rhyme reason at this point to investigators in terms of what his movements for in that two-hour time period.

But then, he went back to the club after those two hours. And, as we know went on this three-hour rampage.

So, what's unclear to investigators at this stage is what exactly set him off and when. If he went to the nightclub with the intention of going on a rampage, left and came back, or if something set him off at the club that night or in that two hour time period, that is what they're trying to piece together, but it's certainly of interest to investigators what he was doing during that time.

They've been able to piece some of it together through witness interviews, through cellphone data and through surveillance video. John.

BERMAN: What about his wife, what is she saying about what his state of mind was when she last saw?

BROWN: So, the wife is still very much a focus of this investigation. And she has told investigators according to our sources that he was very angry when left the house and that she noticed that he had a bag full of guns and she was very concerned.

And she apparently grabbed him by the arm begging him not to walk out of the house.

But of course, as we know, John she didn't call police. Now, she is still claiming that she did not know of his specific plans that he wanted to launch an attack.

We know that she has a lawyer at this point and of course, the FBI wants to continue its discussions with her and no charges at this point against her or imminent. It could be some time if there are any charges against the wife, John.

BERMAN: Pamela Brown, thanks so much.

In the days since the massacre of those whose loved ones were killed have been facing a challenge that can seem unbearable. Forty Nine people, most of them young, were murdered with no warning. The violent nature of their deaths made even worse by the future is that were stolen from them.

[20:45:12] Amanda Alvear's last moments in life were recording the Snapchat video. She was sharing when the shooting began. She actually almost made it out of the club, but went back to find her best friend neither survived.

Last week Gary Tuchman interviewed Amanda's brother Brian and also reported on a memorial Brian organized for the victims at a dance club where he works. Amanda was buried today and her family invited Gary to the funeral. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Amanda Alvear was 25-years- old, going to college to become a nurse, working two jobs, a very busy person, but always having enough time to be the light of her father, mother, and brother's life.

MAYRA ALVEAR, DAUGHTER KILLED IN ORLANDO SHOOTING: My baby girl, she was an extraordinary human being.

TUCHMAN: Can you believe she's gone?



B. ALVEAR: It's going to become very, very real on top of all tomorrow. It's kind of like an overwhelming sense of dread. This has coming building and building and building.

TUCHMAN: And tomorrow has now arrived. Amanda's funeral, hundreds of people standing remotely (ph), as family, friends and some people who never even met her pay respects to Amanda and her family.


TUCHMAN: The loss of Amanda is the family expected has now indeed become very real incapable.

M. ALVEAR: I am numb. I am numb. I don't know what it is inside here. It doesn't want to come out yet. I know that I have received a lot of strength from everywhere in the world, from my family, a lot of prayers that are giving me the strength. And I have the presence of God in me, that's all I can say. I just don't understand it.

TUCHMAN: Amanda's parents have now lost two of their three children. Their 12-year-old Nelson died of cancer years ago. Mayra says she has felt Amanda's presence as she planned her funeral.

MAYRA: It was a strong force that came into my self, you know, and she was like directing me what to do, what to put, where. This is what I want. This is what you -- how to get from my room. Like, what she wants to show off, you know? It's like I felt her. It was amazing. It was the most amazing thing ever.

TUCHMAN: She'll always be with you.

M. ALVEAR: Oh my God.


M. ALVEAR: Oh it's amazing.

D. ALVEAR: I know. TUCHMAN: At the funeral, many mourners wore t-shirts with the image of Amanda along with the phrase love not hate. Amanda's parents say they live by that and that they refuse to be angry.

M. ALVEAR: We need to love each other. We need to learn how to forgive.

D. ALVEAR: She liked hugs. She loved hugs.

M. ALVEAR: She loved hugs.

TUCHMAN: She like hugs.

M. ALVEAR: Everything about her ...


M. ALVEAR: Amanda.

TUCHMAN: Amanda.

M. ALVEAR: Everything about her was, you know, hearts.

TUCHMAN: So you're feeling of not being angry relates a lot to your daughter who was the most loving person you've ever met.

M. ALVEAR: Totally. Totally.

TUCHMAN: Two days after she was killed, Amanda's mother and father found something in Amanda's room.

M. ALVEAR: It was a gift for her dad.

TUCHMAN: This is your father's day gift from your daughter. You don't want to open it?

D. ALVEAR: Not yet.

TUCHMAN: Daniel says maybe he will open the gift in two or three months, but he will take his time because he knows he will never get another gift from his only daughter.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Odessa, Florida.


BERMAN: Our hearts go out to them.

As the Orlando victims are laid to rest, many say the attack reminds them of what happen at the Bataclan Concert Hall in Paris last fall. Were music, mayhem and murder also converge.

At the top of the hour, a CNN Special Report" Terror in Paris. I'm going to speak to the host Chris Cuomo, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:53:09] BERMAN: Gun fire, loud music, dozens killed. That's what happened a little more than week ago in Orlando. It also happened last fall in Paris at the Bataclan Concert Hall. A number of other locations where attacked as well across Paris. 130 people were killed, 100 more wounded.

In a few minutes at the top of the hour, we're going to bring you the CNN Special Report, "Terror in Paris". Here's a preview.


PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: 20 minutes after they first arrived at the Bataclan Concert Hall, there are two local police who got a call that something was going on that there was violence inside. They needed to go there as quickly as possible.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST "TERROR IN PARIS": Armed only with handguns, the two police officers enter the venue.

CRUICKSHANK: And when these two police first come in, they engaged in a fire fight with one of the hostage taker, Samy Amimour.

They managed to kill him as he falls to the ground and rolls on the floor. He blows himself up with his suicide vest.

FRANK, BATACLAN SURVIVOR: I remember the terrorist blowing himself up, the sound of the explosion, you know. These are ringing in your ears and hear him sing.

CUOMO: You heard the guy explode his belt?

FRANK: Yup. Yeah, yeah.

CUOMO: The officers are forced to retreat and wait for help. The attackers move to a more secure position, deep inside the building.


BERMAN: Joining us with more now, the host of the special, my colleague, Chris Cuomo.

It's such an interesting time, Chris, to be talking about what happened in Paris at the Bataclan. Because a lot of people are drawn in comparisons to Orlando, one of the key series to learn, right.

So, what did you learn from people who are inside the Bataclan?

CUOMO: The troubling thing that you understand as you look at both situations in Belgium in between is that the same questions come up again and again. And it doesn't really matter, the country, it doesn't matter the preparation or the tactical force involved. You wind up having very similar problems each time.

[20:55:06] When you and I were standing next to each other in Paris, one of the small pieces of potential saw was, was that in the U.S., it would be different. Here, they have the specially trained S.W.A.T. types. The police in Paris had to wait. Not here in the U.S., all the police are trained to go and to be active. And yet, what happened in Orlando? It's under review right now as we speak, right. The police are justifying how they dealt with the active shooter.

But, it didn't go as easily as some wanted it to.

BERMAN: One of the things that was palpable last November, at least to me was the fear. After those attacks there, people in Paris, people around France were scared, I mean certainly more saw than we just saw in Orlando.

And the reason for that is there was a manhunt, there were perpetrators still on the loose and your focus on this.

CUOMO: We do. There were some very concrete differences. You're right, there was an active manhunt. Some would argue this still is that they don't know the full dimension of that cell there.

This was an isolated case in Orlando. But I also think that you see something else. There's a unique resilience that the Parisians have had.