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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Barack Obama Delivers Speech; Supreme Court on Immigration. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 23, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:09] BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are allowing partisan politics to jeopardize something as fundamental as the impartiality and integrity of our justice system. And America should not let it stand.

This is an election year. And during election years, politicians tend to use the immigration issue to scare people, with words like "amnesty" in hopes that it will whip up votes. Keep in mind that millions of us, myself included, go back generations in this country, with ancestors who put in the painstaking effort to become citizens. And we don't like the notion that anyone might get a free pass to American citizenship.

But here's the thing, millions of people who have come forward and worked to get right with the law under this policy, they've been living here for years, too -- in some cases, even decades. So leaving the broken system the way it is, that's not a solution.

In fact, that's the real amnesty, pretending we can deport 11 million people or build a wall without spending tens of billions of dollars in taxpayer money is abetting what is really just factually incorrect. It's not going to work and it's not good for this country. It's a fantasy that offers nothing to help the middle class and it demeans our tradition of being both a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.

In the end, it is my firm belief that immigration is not something to fear. We don't have to wall ourselves off from those who may not look like us right now or pray like we do, or have a different last name, because being an American is about something more than that. What makes us American is our shared commitment to an ideal that all of us are created equal, all of us have a chance to make of our lives what we will.

And every study shows that whether it was the Irish or the Poles or the Germans or the Italians or the Chinese or the Japanese or the Mexicans or the Kenyans -- whoever showed up, over time, by a second generation, third generation, those kids are Americans. They do look like us, because we don't look one way.

They don't all have the same last names, but we all share a creed and we all share a commitment to -- to the values that founded this nation. That's who we are. And that is what I believe most Americans recognize.

So, here's the bottom line. We've got a very real choice that America faces right now. We will continue to implement the existing programs that are already in place. We're not going to be able to move forward with the expanded programs that we wanted to move forward on because the Supreme Court was not able to issue a ruling at this stage. And now we've got a choice about who we're going to be as a country, what we want to teach our kids, and how we want to be represented in Congress, and in the White House.

We're going to have to make a decision about whether we are a people who tolerate the hypocrisy of a system where the workers who pick our fruit or make our beds never have the chance to get right with the law, or whether we're going to give them a chance, just like our forbears had a chance, to take responsibility and give their kids a better future.

We're going to have to decide whether we're a people who accept the cruelty of ripping children from their parents' arms, or whether we actually value families and keep them together for the sake of all of our communities.

We're going to have to decide whether we're a people who continue to educate the world's brightest students in our high schools and universities, only to then send them away to compete against us, or whether we encourage them to stay and create new jobs and new businesses right here in the United States.

These are all the questions that voters now are going to have to ask themselves and are going to have to answer in November. These are the issues that are going to be debated by candidates across the country, both congressional candidates as well as the presidential candidates. And in November, Americans are going to have to make a decision about what we care about and who we are.

OBAMA: I promise you this, though. Sooner or later, immigration reform will get done. Congress is not going to be able to ignore America forever. It's just -- it's not a matter of if; it's a matter of when.

[12:05:00] And I can say that with confidence because we've seen our history. We get these spasms of politics around immigration and fear- mongering and then our traditions and our history and our better impulses kick in.

That's how we all ended up here, because I guarantee you at some point everyone of us has somebody in our background who people didn't want coming here.

And yet here we are. And that is what is going to happen this time. The question is, do we do it in a smart, rational, sensible way or we just keep on kicking the can down the road? I believe that this country deserves an immigration (inaudible) policy that reflects the goodness of the American people and I think we're going to get that. Hopefully we're going to get that in November.

All right? I'll take two questions. Two questions. (CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: Go ahead.

QUESTION: Thank you.

Realistically, what do you see as a risk of deportation (inaudible) more than four million people? I mean, you say we can't deport 11 million versus (ph) 4 million and there's a chunk of time here...

OBAMA: Let me just be very clear. What was unaffected by today's ruling or lack of a ruling is the enforcement of priorities:00] that we put in place. And our enforcement priorities that have been

laid out by Secretary Jeh Johnson at the Department of Homeland Security are pretty clear.

We prioritize criminals. We prioritize gang bangers. We prioritize folks who have just come in. What we don't do is to prioritize people who have been here a long time who are otherwise law-abiding, who have roots and connections in their communities. And so -- those enforcement priorities will continue.

The work that we have done with the DREAM Act kids, those policies remain in place. So what this has prevented us from doing is expanding the scope of what we have done with DREAM Act kids. Keep in mind, though, that even that was just a temporary measure. All it was doing was basically saying to these kids, you can have confidence that you are not going to be deported, but it does not resolve your ultimate status. That is going to require congressional action.

So although I'm disappointed by the lack of decision today by the Supreme Court, a deadlock, this does not substantially change the status quo. And it doesn't negate what has always been the case, which is if we're really going to solve this problem effectively, we've got to have Congress pass a law.

You know, I have pushed to the limits of my executive authority. We now have to have Congress act. And hopefully we are going to have a vigorous debate during this election. This is how democracy is supposed to work. And there will be a determination as to which direction we go in.

As I said, over the long term I'm very confident about the direction this country will go and because we've seen this in the past. If -- if we hadn't seen it in the past, America would look very different than it looks today.

But whether we are going to get this done now, soon, so that this does not continue to be this divisive force in our politics and we can get down to the business of all pulling together to create jobs and educate our kids and protect ourselves from external threats and do the things that we need to do to ensure a better future for the next generation, that is going to be determined in part by how voters turn out and who they vote for in November. All right? One more question. Go ahead, Michael (ph).

QUESTION: (Inaudible) going forward questions. Number one, is this going -- are you going to be able to do anything more at all for immigrants going forward in terms of executive action before the election of the next president?

QUESTION: And number two, do you in any way take this as some Republicans have presented (ph) this as a slap (ph) at your use of executive authority (inaudible) and will this in any way circumscribe how aggressively or forcefully you use executive authority in the remainder of your time in office (ph)?

[12:10:01] OBAMA: OK. I -- on the specifics of immigration, I don't anticipate executive actions that we can take.

We can implement what we have already put in place that is not affected by this decision. But you know, we have to follow now what has been ruled on in the Fifth Circuit, because the Supreme Court could not resolve the issue. And we are going to have to abide by that ruling until an election, and a confirmation of a ninth justice of the Supreme Court, so they can break this tie.

Because we have always said that we are going to do what we can lawfully through executive action. But we can't go beyond that. And we have butted up about as far as we can on this particular topic.

It does not have any impact on -- from our perspective, on the host of other issues that we are working on, because each of these issues has a different analysis, and is based on different statutes or different interpretations of our authority.

So, for example, on climate change. That is based on the Clean Air Act, and the EPA and previous Supreme Court rulings, as opposed to a theory of prosecutorial discretion that, in the past, as every other president has exercised.

And the Supreme Court wasn't definitive one way or the other on this. I mean, the problem is they don't have a ninth justice. So -- so, that will continue to be a problem.

With respect to the Republicans, I think what it tells you is, is that if you keep on blocking judges from getting on the bench, then courts can't issue decisions. And what that means is then, you are going to have the status quo frozen, and we are not able to make progress on some very important issues.

Now, that may have been their strategy from the start. But it's not a sustainable strategy, and it is certainly a strategy that will be broken by this election -- unless their basic theory is, is that we will never confirm judges again.

Hopefully that is not their theory, because that is not how democracy is designed.

QUESTION: (Inaudible)?

OBAMA: It was a (inaudible) opinion that said we can't come up with a decision. I think that would be a little bit of a stretch. Yeah.

Maybe the next time they can -- if we have a full court issuing a full opinion on anything, then we take it seriously. This, we have to abide by, but it -- it wasn't any kind of value statement or a decision on the merits on these issues.

All right? Thank you, guys.

[12:13:14] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And the president wraps up a brief news conference in what can only be considered a crushing loss. This was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States handed down just hours ago with regard to what would have been considered a real legacy issue for this president, immigration reform. It was passed by executive action, but in a Supreme Court ruling, that offering to roughly four to five million undocumented workers and their children to come out of shadows and apply for programs and actually end up getting temporary work authorizations here in the United States is over. It is not effective anymore.

The enforcement of it, however, as the president just alluded to, not changing. So that sort of leaves us in a bit of a limbo. But I think the bigger message that we could take out of that news conference is what the president said in terms of where we go for here. He's putting the onus back on Congress. If you can't pass any kind of comprehensive immigration reform, and then executive action doesn't work either, it's back in your court. And that means November.

I want to bring in CNN justice correspondent Pam Brown, who's standing by live at the court.

So we've had a couple of rulings today. The first one actually came down with regard to affirmative action, also emanating out of the Fifth Circuit. A Texas action. And that upheld the University of Texas's ability to use race as one portion of their decision making. And then right on top of that came this mammoth announcement. So take it from there and walk me through the immigration decision.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I will tell you, there's no opinion. There's no dissent on the immigration issue because the court was deadlocked. We just got one sheet of paper right here saying that the judgment is affirmed by an equally divided court, which means the lower court's decision stand and this program cannot move forward. This is the president's controversial executive action program that would have shielded more than 4 million undocumented immigrants from being deported and would have given them work benefits, as well as work authorization.

[12:15:08] So, this is a big blow to the Obama administration, even though, as the president said, there's no national precedence set. He says this is not a value statement, but the program will not go into effect most likely, Ashleigh, while President Obama is still in office. Now, it's important to note that the people who would have been

eligible for this program are people who came to the U.S. as children, parents of U.S. citizens, people considered low priority targets. The president made clear that the priority for deportation from the Department of Homeland Security is really those who are more criminals, who have crossed the border recently. These people, under this program, would not be a priority for the Department of Homeland Security. But the president said the program would have allowed them to come out of shadows, allowed them to apply for work, and that will not happen, at least in the near future.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Our Pamela Brown standing by live at the Supreme Court.

Our senior legal analyst in Washington right now, Jeffrey Toobin, joining me now with the ramifications of this.

I don't think it could be said louder the significance of the death of Justice Scalia with regards to this decision and all other 4-4s that we may end up seeing coming down the pike as well. But this particular one, the president even alluded to it, it's up to you in November.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: There's no question about this. I mean when you think about the last big three decisions that are before the court, affirmative action, which came out the president's way, immigration that went against the president, and Monday we will hear the answer in the abortion rights case out of Texas. These are issues that are at the center of the presidential campaign. And all of them could be affected by the next justice appointed to the Supreme Court, whether it's by Hillary Clinton, whether it's by Donald Trump, or if Merrick Garland finally gets a vote. So, you know, when people vote for presidential candidates, they are voting for the future of the Supreme Court. And today's decision really emphasizes why the effective elections on the court is so big.

BANFIELD: All right, stand by, Jeff. I want to bring in as well our David Chalian, CNN political director, and Mark Preston, executive editor for CNN Politics, as well.

So clearly this is a knockout. Well, I'm not going to say knockout. This is a big blow, but perhaps not a knockout. If you believe what the president just said, David, and that is that we will have, he believe, bipartisan immigration reform, but that it is up to Congress next, and that, obviously, if challenged, could end up back at the Supreme Court because nothing today set precedent at 4-4. It just goes right back down to what that Fifth Circuit landed us in today.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right.

BANFIELD: But this is critical. It makes the stakes even higher.

CHALIAN: Well, it does. And you heard what the president did there. He wanted to call the ruling - the decision to kick it back to the lower court -

BANFIELD: Or the indecision.

CHALIAN: The indecision -

BANFIELD: Sure.

CHALIAN: Unfortunate. But then he wanted to sort of tell a different story about America as a nation of immigrants and how he believes we're inexorably moving as a country to a place where immigration reform, a big comprehensive immigration reform package on The Hill, would be inevitable. I mean at one point he actually said Congress can only ignore America for so long. I don't even think he meant the American people there. He was talking about sort of the demographic change in America. And I think that's the story that you're going to hear not only the president tell but Hillary Clinton tell on the campaign trail because this now becomes a raw political issue for both sides. Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, they get to rally their bases over this. This is the issue that launched Donald Trump's candidacy. So both sides will use this now to really rally their troops.

BANFIELD: Mark, stand by for a minute, if you will, because I have a breaking guest which I want to get to right away on Capitol Hill. It's Republican Senator Tom Cole from Oklahoma, who's kind enough to join us. Congressman, excuse me, Tom Cole from Oklahoma.

Congressman, thanks for being with us.

I'd like to get your initial reaction, not only to what the Supreme Court just delivered us, this non-decision which binds us to the Fifth Circuit decision, effectively wiping out that executive action on immigration by the president, and then the president's reaction to that. I'd like you to weigh in.

REP. TOM COLE (R), OKLAHOMA: Well, I certainly am pleased that the president's executive action was not affirmed. Frankly, to me, this is just as much a constitutional question as it is an immigration question. The president lost both lower court decisions and there's no question had Justice Scalia been alive, he would have lost this decision. So I think this also shows that probably Leader McConnell was awfully wise when he said, let's let the American people actually have a voice in this in the presidential contest. But I think - I think we're fortunate today we didn't see an expansion of presidential power and hopefully in the fall we'll have the kind of election where again the executive is kept in check.

[12:20:00] BANFIELD: But, congressman, the issue here is that you are supposed to be that American voice and it has been stymied over and over and over again in our houses of Congress. The president saying that his executive action was because of that. Now with that out of the way, it's back in your court. The president even said that - and you just heard David Chalian said it, that Congress can only ignore America for so long. He said this is not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. So, congressman, when, when, when?

COLE: (INAUDIBLE) in terms of immigration - well, when Congress reaches consensus. There's not a time table on that. I have always argued that - I'm not a big believer in comprehensive. The first thing you need to do is regain the trust of the American people, and that means establish border security, which we clearly do not have. The second thing you ought to do is make sure that if we have employers that are systematically and deliberately hiring people they know to be here illegally, that they're punished. And finally, you try to work with the people that are here, but have by and large played by the rules as to how you reach an appropriate legal status. But amnesty would not, for me, be the way to do that.

So I think there's a process here. But to claim that what came out of the Senate was bipartisan, look, two out of every three Republicans in the Senate voted against that bill. So it was never likely to pass a Republican House. And on this one, the president was given an offer by then Speaker Boehner, Leader McConnell, after the election, which he lost, where he lost the majority, sit down and work with us. Instead, you had this provocative issuing of executive actions, which frankly sent us back. It didn't help solve the problem. It got us into court and the president's consistently lost there so far and basically stymied any ability we had to deal with the issue.

I think the president likes to use this as a political weapon. If he was serious about immigration reform, he would have done what he - what he promised when he ran in 2008. He said he would have an immigration bill on the floor within 100 days. Had two years, never submitted one. Never submitted one the next two years. It's always convenient around election time to use this for Democrats and I think that's what we've seen.

BANFIELD: So I want to ask you the next question, but I'd like to base the contours, if I could, first, with a tweet that's just come out from the presumptive Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton. She said, "today's heartbreaking SCOTUS immigration ruling could tear apart 5 million families facing deportation. We must do better." Signed "H."

So, congressman, I guess the question for you would be, the president has said that the kinds of people that shouldn't be here aren't the families who have been here or are working hard raising children, et cetera. But we're talking about, you know, somewhere between 4 million and 5 million people. What do you think should happen to them?

COLE: I think the first thing that should happen is, we should set up a process where we begin to address this legislatively. And, to me, piecemeal makes a lot more sense. I think the American people are pretty compassionate and generous. And - and I think if they thought their borders were secure and their laws were being enforced, they would look with compassion on the people that are here, have arrived illegally, but have basically played by the rules. They're not interested in dividing families. They're not interested in mass deportations. They are interested in making sure their borders are secure, that we do not have our own businesses acting as magnets for folks that are traveling here illegally, and that folks that have broken the law, you know, do at least go through background checks, have English, you know, perhaps pay some sort of fine. But there is some sort of recognition that, you know, this country's pretty generous in terms of legal immigration. We accept more legal immigrants by far than any other country in the world. So you don't let people break the rules with no consequence, you just invite more of it.

BANFIELD: Congressman Tom Cole, I appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much for joining us today on this breaking news.

COLE: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I also want to bring in Democratic Florida Senator Bill Nelson.

And, senator, obviously, immigration a big issue to Floridians and a big issue for you also as a senator. I want to get your reaction. Clearly you've just heard what the presumptive Democratic nominee has to say. I can't imagine you different much more than that.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Remember the human factor here. This is a great blow to the children that came here as infants. They only know that they're Americans. They've grown up, many of them like the ones in Miami, they were valedictorians of their high school classes. And now, because they were born in another country, and are here illegally, these dreamers are going to have to return to a country they don't know along with their parents. Now that is what is sad.

And additionally, that the children that are born in America, their parents are not going to be able to remain with the children. So now we are splitting families apart as a result of this decision. So I think you ought to evaluate it since we can't get the Congress to bring up a comprehensive immigration reform bill so that we can make the law, the human toll now by what the president was trying to do has been overturned because of this 4-4 decision in the court.

[12:25:32] BANFIELD: Do you - and clearly the 4-4 decision is critical here because this is not precedent, which suggests to us that down the road a case that's similar could land right back in the hands of the Supreme Court of the United States, which presumably at that point may actually be re-staffed to full seating, nine justices, and there could be a precedent set. So the question I have for you is, has this now re-energized or over energized what the campaign will start looking at, because as the president just said, America is beginning to look very different and at some point Congress can't ignore how America looks, clearly alluding to the fact that the demographics are changing, but if the Democratic - if those demographics get out and vote, so can the Supreme Court change their way.

NELSON: Your question was, is there going to be a political impact, and the answer is yes. And the reason it is, is, whoever is the next president is going to appoint that vacancy on the Supreme Court. And that's going to tilt it one way or the other.

BANFIELD: And in Florida, I mean, that's a tricky state for any presidential candidate right now because it's really a north/south kind of vote when you look at demographics there. I'm curious about how Florida, one of the most critical states in our national elections, and we've all lived through them through the hanging chads and everything else, how Florida specifically might end up playing in really big into the national contest in November given that demographic split in your state. NELSON: Well, you're talking about that north is more Republican and

south is more Democratic, but the swing part of Florida is the I-4 corridor, that ban from the Gulf to the Atlantic, right across the middle of Florida. And I can tell you what the result of Florida is, because if you ask the question to those folks, do you think it's right to deport children that came here as an infant that only know that they are Americans? Is that right? The answer is clearly no. And that will reflect it -

BANFIELD: Well, in southern - southern Florida. That demographic that you're talking about, not just Democrat, but very heavily Hispanic Democrat as well, which -

NELSON: No, no, I'm talking about - I'm talking about the majority of people in Florida. They clearly would think that deporting dreamers who came here as children is not fair. That's the majority feeling in Florida. And as a result, that's just one more issue that I think you will see Hillary will win Florida fairly handily.

BANFIELD: Well, that debate is not going away. Senator Bill Nelson from Florida, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. I appreciate it.

NELSON: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, a lot more reaction to these major decisions handed down by the top court in the United States and how they are already doing just what we were talking about, impacting the presidential race.

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