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Trump to Announce Plan for New Immigration Ban; Elizabeth Warren Takes Aim at GOP's Presumptive Nominee; Dow Down Another 260 Points. Aired 10-11p ET.
Aired June 27, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: That does it for us. Thanks for watching. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Breaking news. Donald Trump about to announce his plan for a new immigration ban and it's not just Muslims anymore.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
This time, the campaign says Trump wants to ban immigration from countries with terror links, not just Muslims. Is he flip-flopping? And is this what voters want how hear?
Plus, Elizabeth Warren takes aim at the GOP's presumptive nominee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH WARREN, MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR: That's what Donald Trump is, guy who wants it all for himself, and watch out, because he will crush you into the dirt to get whatever he wants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And Hillary Clinton likes it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do just love to see how she gets under Donald Trump's thin skin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, were you just looking at the democrats' dream team? Is that them right there? We'll discuss. Let's get right to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty with a big day out on the campaign trail. Hello, Sunlen, we are learning more information tonight about what Donald Trump is saying about his immigration plan and the temporary ban on Muslims. What are you hearing?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is potentially a big shift for Donald Trump, Don, the complete and total ban of Muslims coming into the U.S. that was such a central part of his primary campaign. He announced it with great fanfare back in December.
But we do know now according to sources the Trump campaign is looking at tweaking that policy, changing that policy. We know that that now no longer will be a complete ban on Muslims coming into the U.S. but rather a ban on immigrants coming from countries that have some link to terrorism.
That includes countries that are training and equipping potential terrorists and we do not know a specific list of countries yet. The Trump campaign has promised more specifics and more details, but we do know now that this new policy memo and directive from the Trump campaign right now is being written and completed.
LEMON: All right. Let's now turn to the democrats, Sunlen. Hillary Clinton, she and Elizabeth Warren held an event together in Ohio. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: Donald Trump says he'll make America great again. It's right there. No. It's stamped on the front of his goofy hat.
CLINTON: I must say, I do just love to see how she gets under Donald Trump's thin skin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I mean, Sunlen, they were dressed alike. Are we looking at a Clinton/Warren ticket? I mean, they seem to be having a great time, are we looking at a Clinton/Warren ticket? That seemed to be the right message today, right?
SERFATY: Well, they certainly both seemed right on message together and they both seemed very effective and today getting under Donald Trump's skin, he really wasted no time being baited again in by Elizabeth Warren today, really not relenting in the temptation to go back out after her.
We heard Donald Trump in an interview today calling warren his trademark nickname for her, Pocahontas, calling her racist, he called her a sellout, and a fraud, a litany of criticisms coming in rely from Donald Trump today.
But certainly that photo up, and as you noted, they were both dressed in blue today, it really did a lot to fuel additional speculation. I do think that Hillary Clinton played a bit into that today. She praised Elizabeth Warren from many times on this campaign stage, called her terrific.
You know, praised the work she's done over the years. Certainly you could say that today was a test drive for her as a potential V.P. pick. We've been told by sources that we should not rule out Elizabeth Warren's name as being a potential vice presidential pick for Hillary Clinton and certainly her role that she's taken on as an attack dog of Donald Trump would potentially be a big reason if that pick does come into fruition. LEMON: All right, Sunlen, thank you very much. I appreciate your
Donald Trump changing his tune on his proposed ban on Muslim immigration. But listen to what he said. This was back in December when he announced the ban.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. I want to bring in now CNN's Mark Preston and Mr. Fareed Zakaria. Fareed, I want to start with your reaction, what's your reaction to Trump changing his ban on Muslim immigrants to a ban on immigrants coming from countries with links to terrorism?
FAREED ZAKARIA, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS HOST: Well, the policy was absurd to start with. And you look through what he's gone through, he began by saying it was a total and complete ban on all Muslims.
[22:05:03] It included tourists, included the king of Jordan, it included everybody. It was so absurd that he then said, no, it's just temporary, it maybe doesn't include officials, it maybe doesn't include athletes though he said I don't know of any Muslim athletes. I guess he hadn't heard of Muhammad Ali.
Then he goes on to explain it away in various other ways. Now he's come up with this new policy. It's as idiotic as the first one. So let me give you two examples.
He says countries, you know, which have a history of supporting terrorism, I don't know what he means by that because very few countries explicitly are doing it. There are groups within countries.
But take Afghanistan and Iraq. Lots of terrorism has come out of there in some way or the other, but large numbers of people in Afghanistan and Iraq are fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda, dying supporting the United States, providing intelligence for them. Are we saying we're never going to let any of those people come into this country?
Those people who are on the front lines of terrorism, doing our dirty work and risking their lives every day? The problem basically is with terrorism, you're trying to find needles in haystacks. You know, these are very small numbers of people. What Trump keeps going, he adds more hay.
ZAKARIA: It doesn't solve the problem. It was an idiotic to start with, the reset is still idiotic.
LEMON: It sounds like he's still saying Muslim countries even though he's saying with ties to terrorism, but he's saying Muslim countries.
ZAKARIA: Well, presumably otherwise Ireland, and France, and Spain would be part of it.
ZAKARIA: Because they all have histories of terrorism.
LEMON: Mark, I want to get your reaction on this, to get sort of the political strategy. Is this a sign that Donald Trump is attempting, and I hate to use this word, pivot as everyone is saying, you know, he needs to pivot, he might change, pivot to the center and soften his rhetoric?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, he wouldn't say so, right. Donald trump would say that he's always thought this all along and we've all misinterpreted what he was saying.
But Donald Trump doesn't like to describe himself, Don, as a politician, but in fact, he is a politician. I think he's more of a politician than he is an ideologue. As Fareed points out, this wasn't a well thought out policy position about how to deal with terrorism and try to stop it from coming into the United States.
What it was with Donald Trump saying something at the top of his head and doubling down on it. What we are seeing right now, though, as we're heading into the summer or we are in the summer basically, just a few months away from the general election. That in order to win, in order to win and defeat Hillary Clinton, he has to come to the center more and he has to quote, unquote, "moderate his positions" or at least try to explain them and put something on them.
Otherwise all he's going to do is continue to attract the same voters that won him the republican nomination but that's not enough to win you the general election.
LEMON: It sounds like someone in the campaign has definitely gotten the message on that because people have been saying that all along for months and months and months now.
The question is, though, Mark, before I move on a little bit, is that going to help or hurt him because this has been sort of one of the centerpieces of his campaign, this immigration thing, this ban on Muslims, the whole Mexican thing. And then is this going to be viewed as a flip-flop? Can this potentially hurt him? Or does it matter?
PRESTON: I don't -- you know, I don't think for Donald Trump flip- flopping is actually a bad thing. When we saw when John Kerry ran back in 2004, being a flip-flop was terrible. It did hurt him politically. For Donald Trump, flip-flopping just means that his positions are becoming more acceptable and more accepting to a greater bloc of voters. So, no, I don't think this necessarily hurts him. Be interesting how he plays this out over the next few days, because we've seen this happen in the past, Don, where he has back tracked a little bit and then doubled down again. We'll see if he does the next 72 hours.
LEMON: There are also two new polls that are out, the Washington Post/ABC News poll shows Clinton 12 points ahead of Trump and then there is the Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll showing Clinton five points ahead.
There's a big difference. So, how close is this race?
PRESTON: Well, look, I mean, at this point Hillary Clinton was with Elizabeth Warren, right, Don, in Cincinnati, Ohio. That says something. The reason being, you got to win Ohio. Donald Trump tomorrow will go to Pennsylvania to give a speech on trade. Where does he go after he leaves? He goes to Ohio.
So, the close -- the race is close, but it's really going it be fought in just a handful of battleground states. So, let's just keep a close eye on Pennsylvania, Ohio, let's see how Donald Trump does in states like Maine where he's going to go on Wednesday. He's going to go up there. A very independent electorate.
And let's see what he does out west because he's coming out here to Colorado on Friday as well to give a speech to the western political action committee conference. So, a bunch of conservatives gathering. So, it is going to come down to about seven or eight states, Don.
LEMON: Fareed, you know, the latest polling also shows Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump still have a very high unfavorables. Clinton at 55 percent. Trump at 60 percent. And it's clear a big part of this has to do with trust. Something that Hillary Clinton spoke about today. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: A lot of people tell pollsters they don't trust me. Now I don't like hearing that and I've thought a lot about what's behind it. And, you know, you hear 25 years' worth of wild accusations, anyone would start to wonder.
[22:10:03] And it certainly is true. I've made mistakes. I don't know anyone who hasn't. So, I understand people having questions. Now maybe we can persuade people to change their minds by marshaling facts and making arguments to rebut negative attacks, but that doesn't work for everyone. You can't just talk someone into trusting you. You've got to earn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: She said she has to earn trust and that's the first time I've heard her speak that candidly about it, for that matter, you know, do you think Donald Trump needs to do the same thing as well of what Hillary Clinton is doing? I thought that was a very interesting -- I like that moment. ZAKARIA: I think with Hillary Clinton, people have, I think, the
general feeling is that she's too guarded. She use, you're getting too much of a facade. And so, you know, the more she lets people in, the more I think she's able to open up, be honest, reveal things about herself. I think it goes against her nature. She's a more private person than people realize.
In Trump's case, I don't think that's the problem. The problem is he's seen as a loose cannon, he's seen as somebody who is reckless. He's seen as somebody who calls, I think 70 percent of voters say they are uneasy at the prospect of a Trump presidency.
That's -- it's the, you know, do I trust you in the sense, frankly, are you crazy? Are you, you know, do I trust you with your hands on the nuclear button?
Robert Gates, the former republican Secretary of Defense says, I don't think I would trust him with the nuclear codes. That's a different level of trust. That's a trust about saying I think this man does not have the character and temperament to be President of the United States.
LEMON: Mark, similar question that I asked Fareed, I wonder if she needs to do more. That when I said I like that moment, I think most -- I think many voters like moments of humility, moments when candidates are real and they seem vulnerable.
LEMON: Does Donald Trump need to do the same thing and does Hillary Clinton need to do -- keep having those real moments?
PRESTON: Yes, so, look, let's just take them separately. Hillary Clinton does need to have those moments. She does need to drop that guard as Fareed talks about. You know, the problem with the Clintons in many ways has been people think that they are of the mindset, do as I say, not as I do. That they are smarter than the average voter and they have all the answers.
Hillary Clinton today, though, really in many ways just kind of let her guard down and dropped her arm. She needs to continue to do this in order to reach out and, quite frankly, get those voters, Don, who are concerned about Hillary Clinton and don't think that she's trustworthy.
Donald Trump now, and Fareed is right, needs to look like he is more of a leader. It's not that people don't trust him so much, but it's he reckless? Should he control the nuclear arsenal? Is he a good leader? Can he, quote, unquote, "negotiate the good deals with foreign powers?"
So, we'll see what happens, but, you know, Donald Trump in many ways can be likable. OK? I mean, people, if you know him personally or see him personally, he can be a very likable person. He just needs to show more of that, but more importantly, needs to show he's a leader. LEMON: OK. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate that. Fareed Zakaria, stick
around. We have much more to talk about. When we come back, I want to talk about why you say Brexit is not just bad for Britain, it is a disaster for Americans.
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Oh, man, you want to cover your eyes today because the Dow down another 260 points at closing in the wake of the Brexit deal. That was today. So, you probably still don't want to look at your 401K right now, and that may not be the only fallout.
Fareed Zakaria is back with me right now. So, let's talk Brexit. You said this is even bigger disaster for the U.S., is that what you said? It's a disaster for the U.S.
ZAKARIA: It's a disaster for the U.S. Because look, we're seven years away from the last recession. So, you're always now on the lookout for what are the kinds of things that can tip the world, the United States into a recession?
And what markets seem to be telling us is that they're very worried about this being the event why? U.K. is the fifth largest economy in the world, it's the largest foreign investor in the United States. If it goes into a recession, what that means is, it doesn't buy as much, it doesn't invest as much, it doesn't sell as much.
All of a sudden you're going to have less economic activity. And that affects the United States. We do a lot of business with Britain. And why is this happening? Because mostly it's just the sheer uncertainty. Nobody knows where the Britain will be able to sell into Europe, its largest market.
Nobody knows whether it will, you know, the pound will still be one of the great currencies of the world. Nobody knows what it means for any of the various arrangements that Britain has economically with other countries because all of them went through Europe.
So, this really is -- it's partly the shock and uncertainty of something so big and realizing that no one quite knows how it's going to play out.
LEMON: But for the financial folks there, the economists there, it's a fore gone conclusion that it's going to be a recession. At least that's what they're saying.
ZAKARIA: Britain, it seems almost certainly will slip into some kind of a recession. Look, I mean, if you're a CEO and you're trying to decide whether to expand your production in Britain right now and you don't know whether you're going to be able to sell into the 27 countries of Europe, you're just going to say, I'm going to wait a while, right? That decision made by 100 CEO's is enough.
LEMON: Do you think it's going to be as bad as when you listen to the news, right, say we, because we're part of that, that we are making it out to be? At least for America? That it's as bad as news? ZAKARIA: Well, geopolitically it's terrible.
ZAKARIA: Because Britain has been our main ally. If you look at Iran sanctions, if you looks at the stand against Russia, if you look at Afghanistan, if you look at Iraq. Britain is the United States' main partner and Britain has always been able to bring Europe along on all the kinds of things we need, so that's a huge issue.
Financially, I mean, economically, remember, the United States has 15, $16 trillion economy. No one country, no one event probably other than China can really have that much impact and there is this small silver lining. I wouldn't call it a silver lining because it's bad news, but London was the great competitor to New York as the world's financial center.
I doubt that -- I mean, London is not going to be what it was because part of why people went to London was it was a path -- it was a nice English-speaking entry point into Europe.
ZAKARIA: Well, my guess is, you know, New York just got a little bit more of those people.
[22:20:01] LEMON: Yes. It's -- major market chaos right now, but people are saying, listen this is going to stabilizes, give it a couple of months, give it a couple of months.
But the interesting thing though, if in a couple of months if it's still a disaster, right, if there's a disaster going on there, who does that favor? Does it Donald Trump who basically claimed, you know, saying, I called it, I called it. Does that, if London is in chaos, if the U.K. is in chaos I would think that wouldn't bode well for him since he claimed it.
ZAKARIA: I don't think it favors trump at all. because what it shows if that if you allow angry populism that basically has a series of emotional -- emotionally charged policy ideas to win, if you actually vote in, you know, vote on the basis of your emotions rather than your intellect, what you end up with is a disaster because that is what -- I think it's not going to stabilize any time soon because the Scotts might decide to have a referendum where they pull out of Britain. The Northern Ireland does, you know.
ZAKARIA: So, this is going to roll on. And I think what people will realize is there is a cost to doing this kind of thing. You elected Donald Trump and all of a sudden people are going to wonder, are we building a wall? Are we deporting 11 million people, are we going to have ban on however many people he decides that week?
LEMON: Well, speaking of, this was under poll, the leave was under poll, right? Because they thought the stays would win. Is Donald Trump being under polled here? He claims in the latest poll that he is being under polled.
ZAKARIA: Well, certainly in the primaries, in many states, Trump would tend to overperform the average of the polling data and the reason was I think similar to the Brexit situation which is there are people who want to vote for Trump and are going to vote for trump who don't want to admit it to pollsters.
ZAKARIA: It is less fashionable, let's be honest than, you know, than being on the other side.
LEMON: People don't want to admit even that they like him, in public to me, they'll look over their shoulder and whisper, I like him.
ZAKARIA: Precisely. And I think that's something we all have to be careful about. And there's another problem with polling which you've discussed on your program. The response rates are very low now. It used to be about 40 percent of people would respond to, you know, when you'd get a call.
ZAKARIA: You're down to 8 percent.
ZAKARIA: Pollsters have to figure out, because they got Brexit wrong, they got the British election wrong, they got the Canadian election wrong. There are a lot of mistakes here that need to be accounted for.
LEMON: You know how this go, they're telling me we have to go, right, but I have are to ask you, do you think there's any way -- because there's this whole movement that, you know, want -- they want to turn Brexit around. They want to change it.
ZAKARIA: Yes. It is possible. And I think it's not -- it's not entirely unlikely that two years from now, we'll have some British prime minister pretending that he got some compromise, second referendum or something like that and they -- because the reality is pretty awful.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Fareed. I appreciate it.
Up next, Donald Trump hails a Brexit vote saying people have spoken. Will his voters stick with him?
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: As we count down to the November election, what lessons can Americans draw from the Brexit vote in the U.K.? Are voters here and in Britain looking for the same things?
I want to talk now about this with CNN political commentator, Corey Lewandowski and former Trump campaign for Donald Trump, and Peter Beinart, a contributor to The Atlantic.
Good to have both of you on. Thank you for coming in this evening. Corey, I'm going to start with you. A lot of people say this Brexit vote is good for Donald Trump because it shows mistrust in politicians, the status quo, on and on and on. But it's rocking markets so far. Do you think it's good for Donald Trump, it's still good for Donald Trump?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think what you have in Brexit is you've got 17 plus million people who said we've had enough and the political elites both in Europe and here in the United States have taken people for granted. They haven't listened to what those concerns have been and that has been what has fueled the rise of Donald Trump through the primary season and I think that is what has...
LEMON: Do you think -- do you still think it's good for Donald Trump is the question.
LEWANDOWSKI: Yes. What I think is, I think that these people have a legitimate gripe with way their government is being run and that they don't have control and that they need someone to stand up for them. That's what they want in Europe, that's what they want here. And I think that's what they'll get with Donald Trump.
LEMON: So, you think it's good for Donald Trump?
LEWANDOWSKI: I do think it is.
LEMON: OK. In November, what if the U.K. is in turmoil? Do you think that's a good case for Clinton or still good for Donald Trump?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, here's the difference, right. Hillary Clinton who's supposed to have these amazing foreign policy credentials couldn't call this vote correctly. Her and Barack Obama went out and said, look, you need to stay in the European Union.
And these are supposed to be foreign policy experts. And the two people who are supposed to be best on foreign policy at least according to political pundits had this one wrong, Donald Trump had it right. It goes to show you what the foresight it. And that's what the type of thing that I think the country needs moving forward.
LEMON: Do you think if it is the country is still unsettled, is is still good for Donald Trump or is it a good case for Clinton when the election happens in November?
LEWANDOWSKI: What I think is that, you know, you're going to see a calming effect to come across Europe, I think what you're going to see is a new prime minister elected and that will allow...
LEMON: Corey, my question is, if it is still unsettled, is it good for Clinton or Trump? That's the question.
LEWANDOWSKI: I don't know what unsettled mean, does that mean the markets are unsettled, does that mean the political stabilization is unsettled...
LEMON: Yes, what's the happening now, right.
LEWANDOWSKI: ... we're going to see a new prime minister come in that's...
LEMON: Either or for any of that.
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, it's a short-term fix for a long-term problem. What you're going to see come November, is that the people in Europe have now thought this through, they're happy with their decision. They got 17.4 million people have voted for it. It's good for the United States to have change, not just small change but wholesale fundamental change in Washington. That's food for Donald Trump.
PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: As of today, Britain has lost its triple a bond rating and the British pound is at a 31-year low. Right? So, if this is the kind of good change that you're going to bring, your candidate is going to bring to the United States, I think we should think twice about it.
The reason four million people have signed a petition now in the U.K. is that the decision of 52 percent, sometimes people make mistakes. Where a lot of republicans thought that electing Barack Obama was a mistake.
The economic consequences of Brexit are already turning out to be calamitous for the U.K. because the people who supported Brexit who campaigned on it weren't honest with the people of Britain and didn't have a plan...
LEMON: Hold on.
BEINART: Does that sound familiar? We're not honest and didn't have a plan afterwards?
LEWANDOWSKI: Are you telling me? Are you tellin me that there's a politician who's campaigning on something they're weren't honest about this is shocking to me. Stop the presses. I can't believe this is actually...
BEINART: No, because your candidate is far more dishonest than anyone he's running at. PolitiFact had of it, Stephanie...
[22:30:02] LEMON: One at a time. One at a time.
LEWANDOWSKI: There's one candidate in this race who's under FBI investigation, it's not Donald Trump. And let's be clear about that. This one candidate in this race is probably going to be able to indict more than able to serve as a...
BEINART: ... PolitiFact had of it, 74...
LEMON: One at a time. One at a time.
LEWANDOWSKI: There's one candidate in this race who's under FBI investigation, it's not Donald Trump. And let's be clear about that. This one candidate in this race is probably going to be able to indicted and won't be able to serve as a...
BEINART: You must know something we don't know.
LEWANDOWSKI: A 150 FBI agents aren't wrong on this.
LEMON: One at a time.
BEINART: OK. But not indicted.
LEMON: Let him. Go ahead.
BEINART: Seventy four -- PolitiFact said that 74 percent of Donald Trump's statements, they won the Pulitzer Prize, 74 percent of his statements during this campaign have been false. That's almost double any other candidate in the race.
LEWANDOWSKI: How about that Donald Trump said that the people in the U.K. are going to vote to exit from the European Union.
EINART: Besides Donald Trump didn't know what Brexit was, number one, number one.
LEWANDOWSKI: You want to bring up a PolitiFact -- PolitiFact, he was right on this, Hillary Clinton was wrong. She's supposed to be the expert on foreign policy, why wouldn't she get this right?
BEINART: You know, Donald Trump didn't predict that it would, he said he supported it after it was explained what it was because he was unfamiliar with the point.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's right.
LEMON: He does have a point, Corey. He was about in interview. He said he didn't know what it was. He wasn't familiar enough to make a comment on it but then afterwards, he said, you know, I told you so. He didn't read of that. (CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: He said, look, let me tell you, you shouldn't have to listen to me but I think it's a good thing if Europe, if the Great Britain extracts themselves from the European Union. And what he said, sure, the markets has got a problem.
But let me tell you something, 17 million people aren't wrong. Now I know you don't like the numbers. But the bottom line is 1.3 million more people voted to get out than stay in. That's where it is.
BEINART: Right. But, Corey, majorities can be wrong.
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, majority can be wrong.
BEINART: Majority of people can do things that actually turns to be the vast...
LEMON: And should have more -- let me get in here. And to that point, a lot of people are having buyers' remorse. So there are a number of people, and a lot of people and there is this move to sort of undo...
LEWANDOWSKI: Isn't that always the case, isn't that always the case after an election, people say, well, maybe we made the right decision, maybe, we made the wrong decision.
BEINART: Four million people signed a petition, though, that's not the case.
LEWANDOWSKI: The bottom line is, that's how democracy works. One vote more than the other guy gets means you win. And if you're concerned about it, and should have campaigned better, and you should have explain what the issue was, 1.3 million people voted to extract themselves from the European Union.
BEINART: Corey, this isn't that -- this isn't that complicated. There's a difference -- there is a difference...
LEWANDOWSKI: It's a binary vote, up or down.
BEINART: There is a difference between the fact that the people have the right to vote on things and the fact that sometimes people make bad decisions.
LEMON: OK. Stand by. Stand by.
LEWANDOWSKI: You're saying four million people are wrong?
BEINART: Yes, I am.
LEMON: To his point, the number of people, a number of people who pushed for Brexit are now saying that they cannot keep the promise that they said they were going to keep to the people. How do you explain that, what do you say to those people? He has a point there. They're saying this money that we're going to use for health care, we're going to get Brussels, or whatever, or not get Brussels, well, that money is not going to go to you like we said.
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think what this comes down to, is the voters have spoken. And you can like it and you cannot like but the opportunity is you put it on the ballot, it's a binary decision.
LEMON: So, to Corey's point, though, people are voting with their guts. people voted with their guts. It's something that Donald Trump has and has gotten people to do, even in this country.
LEMON: You have to admit that. Is there something that the left is not doing to...
BEINART: There are all kinds of failures if you look at the British Labour Party and I think the Democratic Party has lots of failures in the United States in dealing with economic inequality, too. But here's another thing with we've seen since the Brexit vote of since Thursday, a 57 percent rise in hate crimes.
Attacks in London on Polish, on polls and on Muslims that they have not seen in Britain ever. And that also has a strange familiar ring to it, doesn't it, because Donald Trump when his supporters savagely beat a homeless man, a homeless Latino man in Boston, Donald Trump said, well, my supporters are very passionate. So, Donald Trump, like Brexit, also has a history of inciting hate crime.
LEMON: OK. So, listen, I'm going to let you respond to that. But I mean, he's talked about immigration, right? He's talked about Mexicans, talked about a total ban. But now he's saying it's just countries who have...
LEWANDOWSKI: Harbor terrorists.
LEMON: Who harbour terrorist.
LEMON: Now you don't think -- do you think that message is racist? He thinks the message is racist, he thinks the message is racist and that's a reflection of what's happening here and in Europe, correct? Is that what you're saying?
BEINART: To ban an entire religions from entering the United States is absolutely bigotry.
LEMON: So, you don't think racist?
LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what Donald Trump has said, look, if 1 percent of the Muslim community is radicalized that 17 million people coming into the country, potentially 1 percent, what we know is that the immigration system this country currently has in place is a colossal failure.
We know that the woman who came over on a K-1 visa and committed Jihad in California came over through the legal process. But the State Department was so flawed in their vetting that they couldn't look at her social media account.
What we know is that we're bringing in Syrian refugees right now that we don't know anything about this people. I've spoken to the governors in their respective states, they're saying the federal government won't even tell them the names of the individual or where they're being placed into those states.
And the problem with that become it's not racism. It's about making sure the immigration policies of our country put Americans first.
BEINART: And do you have a plan for doing better vetting, that's terrific. What Donald Trump said, is he wanted a ban on all Muslims coming into the United States. That is classic bigotry because you are taking this behavior of a small number and stigmatizing, demonizing every single person of that religion.
LEMON: But don't you think some of the things have not been addressed properly, the American people feel that things that you may be calling racism, what has to do with immigration, don't you think it hasn't been addressed properly and that is something that Donald Trump is...
[22:35:04] BEINART: Sure, but, look, there is a problem, right. I'm not -- there is no one disagrees with Donald Trump that we have a problem about terrorist attacks in the United States. Donald Trump is not the first person to notice that ISIS is out there trying to kill Americans.
The problem is his response is not only fundamentally bigoted and un- American, but in fact, would lead the ISIS leaders to cheer because it plays right into their hands of making America seem anti-Islam.
LEMON: Hillary Clinton's response quickly was to increase immigration by 550 percent over current levels right now. That is not a response is, not a solution. It's a detriment to our country. And if one person, one American citizen is killed by one person comes to this country illegally, the blood will be on your hands.
BEINART: That's a really Christian thing to say. You don't want to allow any refugees into the United States, good for you.
LEWANDOWSKI: If they don't come in legally, that's exactly right.
BEINART: It's amazing how people boast about their Christianity all the time won't allow a single refugee coming from...
LEWANDOWSKI: Let them come in legally.
BEINART: Good for you.
LEMON: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Always interesting. We'll be right back.
LEMON: Countdown to the republican national convention. Three weeks from today. Here to discuss, John Phillips a talk radio host at KABC in Los Angeles who is a Trump supporter.
[22:40:03] CNN political commentator Patti Solis Doyle who supports Hillary Clinton, senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, and political commentator, Bob Beckel.
I just read that and when it came out, I kind of got a little nervous kick in my stomach. I don't know if that's good or bad. Three weeks. Oh, my gosh, here it comes. So Trump, John, Trump changing his immigration policy. Is this a pivot or is this a wholesale change?
JOHN PHILLIPS, KABC TALK RADIO HOST: Well, it is a pivot to the general election, but it's also part of Donald Trump the negotiator. If you read "The Art of the Deal," Donald Trump says you should aim high, and then accept half a loaf and try to make sure that what you end up getting is something closer to what...
LEMON: Wait, let me stop you there. I understand what you're saying.
LEMON: But is it Trump or is, you know, Paul Manafort and the new people saying, hey, listen, you have to appeal to, you know, more people than just your base?
PHILLIPS: Well, he wrote "The Art of the Deal" a long time ago. So, I'm sure it's consist quintessential Trump. But people in the campaign are on board with this. Look, I mean, you can't give someone a cheeseburger during Ramadan and have them eat it at high noon and determine whether or not they come into the country that way.
You're going to have to have some empirical way of determining who you allow to emigrate to the country and who you don't allow to emigrate to the country. So, it was always going to be something other than the original plan.
LEMON: Now I see why you're on the radio because that was very colorful. But listen, I see, you know, Jeffrey Toobin and Bob Beckel shaking their head. Jeffrey, you had the biggest reaction. Why?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I don't even know where to start. I mean, Donald Trump is running for president, right, he says we're not going to allow any Muslims into the country. It was very clear. So, I don't know how you change a month later, and say, oh, never
mind. I mean, is he going to decide he doesn't want to build a wall to Mexico? I mean, this is one of the two or three ideas that his whole campaign was built around and now he's coming up with a completely different idea? It just strikes me as bizarre.
LEMON: Go ahead, Bob.
BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, this is one of those -- very difficult to walk this back. I mean, Jeffrey just made a very good point. This was the centerpiece. One of the -- you know, the wall and immigration and no Muslims in the country. I don't know how he can get away with doing that.
I can understand it during the republican primaries and caucuses because you had a lot of other people and you had the news was split around. And Trump can get away with as we all know, he's a great walk back artist. The problem is he's walking back at the edge of a big building and it stand about 40 stories. I don't know how he gets away with it.
LEMON: Listen, Patti, it doesn't seem to matter what he does, or if he walks things back or if he flip flops, if he changes his mind, or what have you. He still seems to have a lot of support. He also controls the media message. I'm not sure if you saw The New York Times, Sunday Times yesterday, I was reading the Times, in almost every section, the front section was a Trump story.
Trump's gatekeeper, the New York Times, it was Trump. And then there was one headline and this is from, you know, what people consider, or say the New York Times is liberal. There was one headline about Hillary Clinton about how Hillary Clinton, is Brexit is not going to be good for Hillary Clinton.
The rest were somewhat glowing, some not so glowing but it was all Donald Trump. Does he really need all that money that we were saying Hillary Clinton has? He can control the message, maybe even without that money.
PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Look, I give Donald Trump a lot of credit for the way he has changed campaigns this year. This election cycle. You know, he has really mastered social media and campaigns and he picks up the phone and he gets on any network he wants to.
But yes, to answer your question, does he need the money? He absolutely does needs the money. Because in addition...
LEMON: Does that translate into votes, though?
DOYLE: Not so much to put the money into media, into advertising, but for his ground operation, for troops, for staff on the ground in Ohio and Florida and Pennsylvania. That's where he needs this money because he is trailing significantly, Hillary has ground troops. She has 700 people on staff. He has 70.
I understand that Paul Manafort is trying to change that. But I think it's a little too late, a little, you know, to try to do that and catch up to Hillary at this point.
LEMON: All right. Jeffrey, I want to go back to you real quick. Because the Supreme Court decisions today. I want -- I need to talk about that. Explain why you think Justice Kennedy has November in mind with these two recent votes on affirmative action and abortion rights?$,
TOOBIN: Well, you know, Anthony Kennedy has been on the court since 1987 and he has been the most important justice for most of his tenure because the court has been so polarized between liberals and conservatives and Kennedy has gone different ways.
He has gone different ways including on the issues that were decided this week. This week, he decided that affirmative action and college admissions could proceed at the University of Michigan. Today, he voted with Justice Stephen Byer who wrote the opinion saying that Texas could not pass regulation that shut down most of the abortion clinics in the state.
[22:44:58] I think what's going on is he sees that the court is moving to the left. There are now four solid liberals. There are three mostly conservative justices. And there's a vacancy that is either going to be filled by Barack Obama, probably not, Merrick Garland doesn't look like he's going to get confirmed.
But probably by Hillary Clinton because she seems likely to win. The democrats are likely to have a solid majority on the Supreme Court for the foreseeable future and I think Kennedy thinks, look, I'm closely but -- my -- I am on the fence or on these issues, I might as well be with the majority.
LEMON: Yes. John, turning to you now. Let's talk about Brexit, OK? And this is John Oliver I want you to listen to this, what he said last night about Trump's reaction to Brexit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN OLIVER, COMEDIAN: He found a way to make this whole thing about himself. Tweeting, "Many people are equating "Brexit and what is going on in Great Britain with what is happening in the U.S. People want their country back."
And you might think, well, that is not going to happen to us in America. We're going to listen to some ridiculously haired buffoon peddling lies and nativism in the hopes of riding a protest vote into power. Well, let Britain tell you, it can happen and when it does there are no (muted) all this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. So, John, is the Brexit vote bad for Trump? Did it scare people? PHILLIPS: Well, I don't think he used it the way he could have for
the maximum impact when he was over in Scotland talking about the new sprinkler systems and new coffee shop he was putting at the golf course.
But many of the Brits that went and voted had some of the same concerns that Trump supporters and people in the United States have. That's sovereignty, that immigration, that's making sure that people in other countries don't tell you what to do.
And I think it was a missed opportunity for Trump because when these things happen, they tend to happen not just in one country but there's a kind of a wave that goes across the world. That we're seeing this happen in Australia, we're seeing this happen in other western countries.
And this is thing that if the elites don't address and elites haven't address so far in this country which is why the republican primary voters opted for Trump instead of one of the establishment candidates that Donald Trump could ride this wave and win in November.
LEMON: There's always a new buzzword for every election. This one is the elites. The elites. Everyone is saying it. How do you guys come up with that? Do you like have a phone call and say we're going to call everyone the elites?
BECKEL: Yes. Every...
PHILLIPS: I have T-Mobile, if they called me it would drop in about 25 seconds.
LEMON: Yes. Quickly, Bob, what did you say?
BECKEL: John, I was trying to push back at you a little bit. For the one who said Donald Trump early on had a chance to get this, I give you credit, I always have. But your notion that somehow any negatives that Trump gets is acceptable by people, you got to remember his people are a small sliver of the American electorate.
And he's a 70 percent negative now. So, and by the way, the Brit -- what he did in Scotland to say the pound, he says that $333 trillion in wealth and he says it's going to help my golf course? I mean, come on.
LEMON: Bob, also there is a belief, and I talked to Fareed Zakaria about this, is that Trump may be under polled. We'll discuss that. I need to take a break. Stay with me, everyone.
Hillary Clinton campaigns in Ohio with Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is this a ticket in the making? Look at them.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren joining Hillary on the campaign trail today and slamming Donald Trump.
Back with me, John Phillips, Patti Solis Doyle, Jeffrey Toobin, and Bob Beckel. OK. Patti, you say that Senator Warren proved today that she is the head of the progressive movement not Bernie Sanders. I know Bernie Sanders supporters might have something to say about that.
DOYLE: Well, look, you know, clearly from reporting that CNN is doing, we know that Elizabeth Warren is on Hillary Clinton's short list. You know, and that she's being vetted.
And today, was definitely an audition and she passed, but you know, with flying colors. There was incredible chemistry on that stage today. There was -- you could tell, I mean, I've known Hillary Clinton a long time, you could tell Hillary Clinton was having a grand old time up there with Elizabeth Warren, listening to Elizabeth Warren really slam Donald Trump.
And you know what was on no one's mind was Bernie Sanders. I think Bernie has really missed an opportunity. He ran a fantastic campaign. Really strong. He brought millennials to the table like no one has since Barack Obama. He was the progressive leader. He made income inequality the center point of his campaign. And I think he missed an opportunity. A lot of people thought that...
LEMON: He is saying -- he is saying that he wants to do everything to so that Donald Trump won't get re-elected, but his -- his actions don't sort of live up to that message, do you agree with that? Don't match -- they don't match his rhetoric.
DOYLE: Look, I think he's trying to get what he can from the platform committee. He's really trying to, you know, move democrats to his way of thinking. You know, whatever issues he has with Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the DNC.
DOYLE: I think he's trying to use his, you know, mojo to get stuff done. But I think that his mojo kind of went downhill after Elizabeth Warren's performance tonight.
LEMON: OK. I got you. So, I want, Bob, I want you to listen to what Scott Brown said today about Senator Warren.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BROWN, FORMER MASSACHSETTS SENATOR: She's not Native American, she's not 1/32nd, she has no Native American background except what her family told her. The easy answer on that, as you all know, is that the Harvard and Penn can release the records, she can authorize the release of those records. She can take a DNA test, she can release the records, herself. And there's never been any even.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, Bob, Donald Trump also told NBC News that Warren is a
racist, Warren is not campaigning against Trump yet. Do you think it's smart for the Trump campaign to continue to malign her?
BECKEL: No. I tell you, for some reason this woman gets under her skin in a way -- first of all, women get under his skin, anyway. But for her, the kind of words she's using about Trump and the way Trump has reacted to it, you know you don't do that as a presidential candidate. You don't react to the vice president. The idea is to let the vice presidents go at it.
[22:55:00] I think she is making Trump very, very nervous, but beyond that, the Clinton people have a tough decision. One, I think their own polling will indicate the Sanders people are not going to go to Trump. The question is, are they going to show up?
BECKEL: And if that's the case, you take states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, he really does need the millennials that Patti was talking about. So, I change my mind in this a little bit. I think she would be an attractive candidate for that kind of platform, which by the way, Bernie is losing, the last three votes on his platform committee, he's lost.
BECKEL: So, I think that's part of the thinking but I think still Kaine, the former Governor of Virginia, is still the odds-on favorite. Because if she gets the examination than a republican governor will appoint a republican senator and makes it one more person you have to take down to get the senate back.
LEMON: Jeffrey, you know, Warren in Ohio with Clinton today that was all about the working class vote and she needs to work on that vote.
TOOBIN: She does. And it was certainly a very impressive performance, two of them. but, you know, I think one we spend so much time talking about the politics of these vice presidential appointment and when we look back at these presidential elections, we see the vice presidents almost never make any difference at all.
And the interesting question is who does Hillary Clinton want to have lunch with every week for four years or eight years? Because you know, these vice presidents especially in recent years they are important advisers, Biden, Cheney, Gore.
I mean, they are presences in the White House. And you know, for all the -- today was all, you know, all 11, you know, 11 happiness. You know, Elizabeth Warren has ripped Hillary Clinton in the past.
TOOBIN: You know, in her book about bankruptcy. I mean, there is real -- some real poisonous history there. Maybe it's all in the past.
LEMON: Politicians, they all do it. Don't you -- I mean, everybody it's like, we hate Donald Trump then a week later they're like, we love Donald Trump. I mean, you know how that is.
TOOBIN: You're a tough man, Mr. Lemon. I don't know.
LEMON: I like what you said, though. I like how you boiled it down for us. Who you want to have lunch with every week. That's a good way of putting it. Thank you, Jeffrey. John, you'll be back. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Patti. Thanks, Bob. John, we'll see you next hour.
PHILLIPS: All right.
LEMON: When we come right back, convention countdown with just three weeks to go until the GOP goes to Cleveland, Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump in the polls. Can he get his mojo back?