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Suicide Bombs in Istanbul Airport Kill Over 40, Injure Hundreds More; Clinton and Trump Have Different Approaches to the War on Terror; Scotland's First Minister Meets with European Leaders Hoping To Strike New Deal. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 29, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:05]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We're following breaking news out of Turkey this morning. A devastating and well-coordinated attack at Istanbul's airport has killed 41 people and left 239 others wounded.

So far we know there were three attackers. The moment two of their suicide vests go off, caught on surveillance video. One of the bombers was shot by a police officer who quickly realized the danger he was in. And he ran away before that suicide bomb was detonated. No group has come forward to claim credit but the Turkish Prime Minister says signs to point to ISIS.

So let's talk more about this. I'm joined by former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and Turkey, James Jeffrey. Welcome, sir.

JAMES JEFFREY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ AND TURKEY: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: If ISIS is responsible for this, what does it tell you about its strength to attack targets?

JEFFREY: As we've seen in Brussels and in Paris, ISIS operating out of its citadels in Iraq and Syria, is still able to recruit, train, and organize terrorists to launch attacks. Certainly in Europe, certainly in Turkey, and possibly in the United States.

COSTELLO: Does it necessarily say anything about the continued strength of ISIS?

JEFFREY: Not entirely. That is, ISIS has been weakened in terms of its personnel, it's down to probably below 20,000 fighters. And it's lost a lot of territory. But it still holds huge swaths of both Turkey and -- or correction -- of Iraq and Syria. And millions of people are still under its thumb. It's going to be able to continue to do these attacks until we take down its capital in Raqqa and its city of Mosul in Northern Iraq.

COSTELLO: OK so let's talk about Raqqa in Syria, right? So you have Russia who's conducting airstrikes, the United States who's conducting air strikes. They don't exactly see eye-to-eye when it comes to Bashar al-Assad, right? So Turkey's President called both President Obama, and Vladimir Putin today. What do you suppose his end goal is?

JEFFREY: Well what President Erdo?an wants is some sort of a resolution to one of the wars in Syria, between the Assad government supported by Iran and Russia, against much of its population, and Turkey is on the side of the population. And it wants more help in the fight against ISIS in Syria as well as in Iraq.

So it's a three-sided, at least a three-sided war that we have going on there. It's very complicated. But if all of the major players focus on a ceasefire in Syria, with the Assad government on the one hand, and doubling our efforts against ISIS on the other, we might see an end to this thing.

COSTELLO: OK I was just going to ask you how the U.S. should respond. When you say "doubling our efforts," what do you mean?

JEFFREY: Well first of all we need to show sympathy to our Turkish allies, make sure that our intelligence channels are open -- I think they are -- and functioning effectively. But we have to do even more on the ground militarily against ISIS. It's a state, it's an army, and it's a planning cell to launch attacks like this. As long as it's on the ground in Syria and Iraq, it is a threat to everybody.

We have the capability to do far more against ISIS with some of the troops we've got on the ground with our air power. But so far we have not gotten the authorities, the permissions, and the additional rules of engagement to go after these people with the vigor that we need to.

COSTELLO: Of course this all plays into the presidential campaign that's going on in the United States right now. One of the candidates, Donald Trump, addressed the attack last night. And he brought up waterboarding again. I'd like you to listen to what he had to say and then respond on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well they asked me the question, I said, "I'll answer that question." They said, "what do you think about waterboarding?" I said, "I like it a lot but I don't think it's helping."

So we can't do waterboarding, but they can do chopping off heads. Drowning people is still OK (ph) because they can do whatever they want to. And you know, they did a walk us (ph). Can you imagine them, sitting around the table or wherever they're meeting they again (ph). Talking about the Americans don't do waterboarding and yet we chop off heads.

They probably think we're weak, we're stupid, we don't know what we're doing, we have no leadership. You know, you have to fight fire with fire. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So do terrorists think America is weak and stupid? And should we be more muscular in the way we fight ISIS? JEFFREY: One, they don't think that, they fear us. Two, we should be

more muscular in the sense of intensifying what the Obama administration is doing now. It's got some of the basics correct but it needs to do it far more intensively, with more troops, take more risks. And frankly be willing to accept more American casualties.

But as far as what Donald Trump said, anything like this, as somebody who's been out in the region, that won't deal with the terrorist threat. That will create more terrorists and it will put more Americans at risk. You cannot act like that in the Middle East.

COSTELLO: Is it time that there were U.S. boots on the ground in that region again?

JEFFREY: Well we have U.S. boots on the ground, 10,000 in Afghanistan. We have some -- we have between, on a given day, 4,000 to 6,000 special forces, other infantry trainers, in Iraq and in Syria. It's a question of what they're doing.

I think we need more of them. But more importantly they need to be further to the front. Some of them at least, need to be engaged in some high-end fighting. And they need more authority, more liberal authority to target ISIS concentrations. Even if they're in populated areas.

COSTELLO: Ambassador James Jeffrey, thank you so much for your insight this morning. Still to come in the Newsroom, we just heard some of what he said, what about what she said? After the terror attack, two very different reactions from the presidential candidates.

[10:36:18]

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[10:40:40]

COSTELLO: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton responding swiftly to the deadly attack in Istanbul. It's terror, and the U.S. response to terror becomes a key issue in the race for the White House. CNN's Phil Mattingly is with me now to tell us more about that. Good morning.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Terror is now a permanent element of this campaign whether the candidates like it or prepared for it, or not. And last night we got a window on the strategy each has to deal with this in the weeks and months ahead.

For Donald Trump, as we saw last night at a rally in Ohio, his idea is to put out the idea of strength. Even if that means endorsing torture. Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're living in medieval times. We have to stop it. We have to be so strong. We have to fight so viciously and violently because we're dealing with violent people, vicious people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Obviously not mincing any words there. Now Hillary Clinton taking a different strategy here. Trying to show herself as the steady hand. She didn't make any public comments on this yesterday but did put out a statement. And in that statement, noting that the attack last night, "only strengthens our resolve to defeat the forces of terrorism and radical jihadism around the world."

And what you're seeing from Hillary Clinton and her team is an opportunity to show that they know the area. They have intimate knowledge of the people and the countries in that region and what they need to do to try and stop this going forward.

The real question becomes, which of these two strategies plays best with voters. One thing we do know, voters are paying very close attention. That ticks upward every single time one of these attacks occur. And so candidates are going to have to deal with this every day of this campaign, all the way up until November. Carol?

COSTELLO: So I would suspect that many voters listened to both candidates and their strategy and were very dissatisfied. Because I didn't really hear a strategy. Did you?

MATTINGLY: You ...

COSTELLO: Like, "attack viciously," from Donald Trump. Well, how?

MATTINGLY: So on some level what you're getting to is the divide between the two candidates. Hillary Clinton, if you go on her website, has a very in-depth policy of how you're going to respond to this country-by-country, from the financing to the military operations. Donald Trump is more kind of top-line here. And he's been very clear. He wants to bomb their oil. He wants to not necessarily put boots on the ground, but attack their finances. Similar things, but top-line.

But his point is this. He wants to just show strength up front. And that, he believes, as he's shown on economic policy as well, is what's tapping into frustration that voters are feeling across the country, across the globe really, that no one has adequately dealt with this. Why isn't there -- why isn't it working? Why haven't we been able to win this fight yet? Donald Trump is saying, quite simply, "I can do it." What the details are for that? Sometimes it's open to interpretation.

COSTELLO: All right, Phil Mattingly, thanks so much. So let's talk about that. John Avlon is Editor in Chief of the Daily Beast, and a CNN political analyst. And Andy Smith is the Director of the University of New Hampshire polling center. Welcome to you both.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Good morning.

ANDY SMITH, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE POLLING CENTER: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning, good morning. So John, I found it interesting that Mister Trump talked about it, about this terror attack. And Hillary Clinton just gave a written statement. Why was that?

AVLON: Well I think, Trump had a rally last night and I don't know what Hillary Clinton's campaign schedule was. But she put out a more detailed statement and has still pointed out, her website and her campaign has much more detailed policies on terror.

Donald Trump's basic appeal, at the end of the day emotionally, is strength. And so it's not a surprise that that's his response to terror attacks. And indeed we've had ten ISIS -- apparently ISIS- related -- terror attacks in NATO allies, including ourselves, since Paris. So this is a steady drum beat that the candidates are going to have to respond to.

I think what's tricky is that Donald Trump's solution seems to be to run on a pro-war crimes platform. Bumble (ph) back to the stone age, and use waterboarding and then some. And Hillary Clinton is trying to make a more multilateral argument that we need to work with allies in the Middle East, and our NATO allies to snuff this out. It is less emotionally satisfying but it's also probably more reality-based when it comes to the powers of the presidency.

COSTELLO: OK so let's talk about the polls Andy, because that's your specialty. And the polls, I might add, are all over the place. But a new CNN poll shows Mrs. Clinton leading Mr. Trump by seven points. Not so much in national security though, why?

SMITH: Well I think that -- John pointed out that every time one of these incidents occurs, I think it boosts Donald Trump's support. First of all because he provides a more direct emotional response to it, that we're going to go get the bad guys. Whereas Clinton's response is more nuance. But I think more importantly, it allows Trump to point to Clinton's background as Secretary of State and say, "look what happens when we do things her way. We end up with ISIS."

And I think this is the problem the Clinton campaign is facing, in that if you have a background and a history of showing that you have the diplomatic skills to deal with this but you're not showing the results on the ground. Whereas Trump can criticize you for the results on the ground. It just makes it a more difficult explanation for Clinton. And a more satisfying, emotional explanation for Trump.

And I think each time one of these things occurs, it keeps Trump close in the race. In a race that well, frankly, he's done everything to distance himself from the lead.

[10:45:50]

COSTELLO: Let's talk about Trump's remarks on the economy. Because that's what he was talking about in Pennsylvania, right? He wants to put an end to the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And listen to what he told supporters -- actually it was in Ohio -- let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Trans-Pacific Partnership is another disaster. Done and pushed by special interests who want to rape our country -- just a continuing rape of our country. That's what it is, too. It's a harsh word -- it's a rape of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So interestingly, John, actually those remarks sounded sort of like Bernie Sanders. Although Bernie Sanders wouldn't say it's raping our country, perhaps. But might that attract some Bernie Sanders supporters?

AVLON: Well there is a lot of commonality between the protectionism of Donald Trump and a lot of the anti-free trade, or concerns about free trade agreements on the part of some folks on the left. This is very where the far left and the far right overlap.

It was true when Pat Buchanan and Jesse Jackson were holding the mantles several decades ago. But never has a Republican nominee run, in recent years, as an outright rejection of free trade, which of course was a mainstay of Reagan's economic and foreign policy. And most other conservative thinkers.

So it's not only another departure, but then it's the language with which he does it. I mean really tripling down on the word "rape," as a metaphor. Which is fear mongering tactic 101. It's also ugly in its viscerality. And clearly the knowledge that it's an ugly metaphor didn't deter him, it just enticed him. And it says a lot about his instincts as a politician.

COSTELLO: So Andy, Mr. Trump's rhetoric does play in the middle part of this country, right? Where people are desperate for a better economy and they're desperate for jobs. Hillary Clinton said you know, I sympathize with what Trump supporters believe and how they feel. But I'm not sure that really strikes an emotional chord in anyone.

SMITH: Well I think you're right. And I think the success that she had in the Democratic nomination process really started when she said that essentially she would run as the third term of Barack Obama. And like it or not, that means you're running for the third term of Barack Obama's economic success, or lack of success.

So she's taken on the responsibility, or the onus, of the -- of explaining what's going on in the country on the basis of the administration. Whereas both Trump and Sanders can criticize much more freely. We saw this -- I think one other person that I should point out that we've seen this before with was with Pat Buchanan in 1992 and 1996 -- was very aggressive about pushing the anti-NAFTA message.

And it does resonate, and it resonates during bad economic times. And it's -- again -- it's an easier button for Trump to push. Especially using the rhetoric that he's using, and the language that he's using ...

AVLON: I ...

SMITH: ... It's a much more difficult case for Clinton to make.

COSTELLO: All right I've got to leave it here, John, I ...

AVLON: Yeah Carol I hear what he's saying but yeah, just, it's worth noting that Hillary Clinton flip-flopped on TPP. And so it's not that she's running as an inheritor of Obama on this regard. She actually moved towards Bernie Sanders on this regard.

COSTELLO: Yeah. She was for TPP before she was against it. John Avlon, Andy Smith ...

SMITH: House code (ph).

COSTELLO: ... thanks to both of you. Still to come in the Newsroom, Britain's out but Scotland, they want in. Soon Scotland's leader makes her pitch to EU's leaders.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:20]

COSTELLO: At the top of the hour, the Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon is expected to meet with the President of the European Commission to fight to keep Scotland in the EU. That meeting coming just hours after European leaders deliver their strongest blow yet to Britain. CNN's Nic Robertson has more, live in Brussels. Hi Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah Hi Carol. Nicola Sturgeon has said because 62 percent of the Scottish population voted to remain part of the European Union, she wants to do everything she can to protect Scotland's place in the European Union. And that's why she's here having meetings.

And she's certainly getting a lot of doors open for her. Meeting this morning with the President of the European Parliament. Other European party leaders in between, and this evening, meeting with the President of the European Commission.

The European leaders here are really welcoming her. Britain as a whole, rejected the European Union but they really relish the idea that Scotland would like to continue to be a member. And of course for Nicola Sturgeon, she believes that Scotland is better off being independent from Britain. And if it can remain part of the European Union, that is a very strong step in that direction.

At the same time, you have the battle lines now being drawn between the British leaders -- David Cameron right now -- still no replacement that we know about, who's going to replace him -- and the European leaders. They met this morning and their message for Britain was, "if you want to have a new deal with us, we welcome it. But if you want to have a deal where you have access to the single market of Europe -- those 500 million people who live here, then you're going to have to let some of those 500 million have free access to travel and work in Britain." David Cameron's parting message was, "that's an issue for us."

COSTELLO: All right, Nic Robertson reporting live from Brussels this morning. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan after a break.

[10:55:20]

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