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Latest on Dallas Police Shooting; Which Candidate Will Keep Americans Safer?; Discussion of Police Shootings of Black Men. Aired 11p-Midnight ET

Aired July 8, 2016 - 23:00   ET



[23:02:14] DON LEMON, "CNN TONIGHT" HOST: A week of shocking violence in America. Five Dallas police officers shot to death, seven wounded. African-American man in Minnesota and Louisiana killed by police. Their deaths caught on camera and sparking protests nationwide. We're looking at one protest now in Atlanta.

This is "CNN Tonight". I'm Don Lemon. A country in crisis demanding leadership.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know there is something wrong with our country. There is too much violence, too much hate, too much senseless killing, too many people dead who shouldn't be.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A brutal attack on our police force is an attack on our country and an attack on our families. We must stand in solidarity with law enforcement, which we must remember is the force between civilization and total chaos.


LEMON: Who will voters turn to in November to keep America safe and will this election bring us together or drive us farther apart? I want to bring in now Texas attorney general, his name is Ken Paxton, he joins us now. Thank you so much Attorney General for joining us this evening. I want to send our ...

KEN PAXTON, TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

LEMON: Yes, absolutely. I want to give us, you know, tell you our deepest condolences for your officers and the people of Dallas. How are you doing tonight?

PAXTON: You know, it was a very surreal day for me. I used to work in Downtown Dallas, about a block from where all of this happened. And I never thought when this happened that I would be in a situation close to a devastating event like this occurring. It just -- you don't expect it in your own backyard and then suddenly it happened and it's just -- simply it's so shocking. LEMON: What can you tell us about the wounded officers in the hospital?

PAXTON: You know, they haven't put out many updates. So that and so I don't know a lot about their conditions. That still remains to be seen. We're just praying for these guys because we know that some of them are in serious condition.

LEMON: This was a deadly state law enforcement since 9/11. What does that mean to you?

PAXTON: You know, it's actually -- it was a very sad story. But there -- I think is a silver lining in this. If you think about what happened here, you have police officers who escorted and were taking care of and protecting people who were expressing their first amendment rights. And that these people were expressing their first amendment rights in a way that may not have been favorable to these police officers and yet, when it came to the moment, when they actually needed to be protected, these officers stepped into the fray.

[23:05:09] Some of them died, some of them lived. But they were unafraid to take the risk of laying down their life and risking their life for people that disagree with them. I think that's a great story for America and I think it says a lot about our country that's good.

LEMON: Yeah. And officers around the country do that on a daily basis on their jobs. What more are you learning about this shooter's motivation?

PAXTON: Well, I think he spoke about his motivation. I don't know if we're ever going to get much more than what he spoke because obviously he's not around anymore. So there's not really much more to be learned other than what he said that, you know, he had issues with certain groups of people. And so, unfortunately, we're not going to learn any more about him.

LEMON: Attorney General Paxton, again, our deepest condolences. Thank you.

PAXTON: Well, thank you for having me on. It's been a tough day. But we're going to continue to pray for the families and for our state.

LEMON: Absolutely, indeed. I want to bring in now the family of Philando Castile. The man whose death at the hands of police was streamed, live streamed by his fiancee. The video shocked the country, devastated his loved ones. And joining us now, his uncles, Tracy and Clarence Castile and his mother, Valerie Castile.

I don't understand how you guys are even able to get up, you know, out of bed and leave the house. But you are and you've been handling yourselves with the utmost dignity. So thank you for coming on and I'm sorry for your loss.



LEMON: It's been two days ...

V. CASTILE: Appreciate that.

LEMON: ... since this tragedy happened. And you know, since then, we have seen a lot of anger, a lot of emotion from protests across the nation. When you woke up today and you saw that these 12 officers had been shot, five had been killed. I would imagine you were saying my goodness what else could happen, what else could happen? First Louisiana, now my son had this.

V. CASTILE: Absolutely.

C.CASTILE: Yeah, yeah.

V.CASTILE: Absolutely.

TRACY CASTILE, UNCLE OF PHILANDO CASTILE: It's a devastating day for ...


T. CASTILE: ... the people in Dallas. You know, these 12 people. Men and women were killed, wounded and I send out my deepest condolences ...


T. CASTILE: ... to the families and the state of Texas.


LEMON: You know, it's so hard to deal with because when something happens, mom, you know, what happened with your son, I would find it -- I think I would find it hard, you know, not to be selfish and just worry about myself and just try to block everything else out. But has that really -- is that impossible for you to do considering what's been happening around the country?

V. CASTILE: To think about it, my son was a humanitarian. He's felt. And he loved life and he believed that all lives mattered. And I thought it was a tragic thing that happened in Dallas I -- my heart goes out to them as well.

LEMON: Your son's girlfriend, Diamond, I want you to listen to what she said earlier today. Listen to this.


DIAMOND REYNOLDS, FIANCE OF PHILANDO CASTILE: I want my justice. I want that police officer's name to go public. And I want people to know who did this to us. Who did this to our city, our state and our country? It's not you. It's not you, it's not you. It's none of us. We didn't do this to ourselves. And I just want the world to know that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Valerie, what do you want to see happen?

V. CASTILE: Pretty much count as some of the things that she said. I want the person who was involved to be held accountable basically. I do want him to go to jail, yes, I do. Yes, I do. I need that. Because the way that that went down, unacceptable. Things like that shouldn't happen to anyone, especially when you're taught to obey the law and then you're killed by the law.

LEMON: Tracy, there are a lot of people out there who have been protesting because of what happened and protesting in the name of your family. We've been talking a lot about Black Lives Matter, the movement, the different reactions that those protests elicit. And last night, you know, we all watched what happened. It was really like a war zone. What do you think can be done to heal this enormous divide between the black community and law enforcement that so many people feel?

T. CASTILE: Love and peace.

[23:10:03] That the communities, law enforcement, build a better relationship with one another. People can't, you know, trust -- if they can't trust your police department, your sheriffs, anyone in law enforcement, we're going to have the same, you know, chaos. You know, peaceful demonstrations, you know. Then you've got this riot and you got all these families that are hurt behind all this. So I think just bridging that relationship with law enforcement, the communities and everybody just, you know, love each other, you know, that's about it.

LEMON: Yeah, that's -- considering that the emotions are so high, that may be a tough thing to do. Tracy, I had never seen anything like it. I don't think any of us saw anything like what Diamond put out. And I'm sure, you know, it's awful to see but I'm sure you're glad that it happened so that people can get some insight into what some people face in this country.

T. CASTILE: Well, I don't -- I'm glad that the video came out. Very horrific thing to see. But with any criminal case, you know, they're -- people needs to be held accountable and I want what my sister wants, justice. And with any criminal ...

V. CASTILE: Any how is that a person ...

T. CASTILE: They should go. They should ...

V. CASTILE: ... go to jail.

T. CASTILE: This person should be put in custody.

V. CASTILE: Treated equally.

T. CASTILE: Treated like any criminal. Be put in custody, handcuffed, fingerprinted, bail, get an attorney. And go through all the due process. And guilty until proven innocent just like any other criminal. This is a criminal case. And I just believe that that's what should happen. He should be treated like any other criminal.

LEMON: You know, I want to ask you, Valerie, because, you know, it's just -- this is kind of an old school question if you'll forgive me. I'm not making a statement about you here. But I want to talk about Congressman John Lewis and something that he tweeted out here.

He says "I was beaten bloody by police officers but I never hated them. I said thank you for your service." And then he also referenced Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. pleading for peaceful protests. Do you think that protesters will listen to him?

V. CASTILE: They may. They should. Because you can exercise your right to demonstrate and be peaceful. My son was a peaceful man. And we don't condone violence. But the thing about forgiving, you can forgive sometimes but you'll never forget. But he took my son's life. I can't forget that and I don't forgive him. Bottom line.

LEMON: There have been over the last couple of days, people who are saying, you know what, if a police officer gives you a command, you should do it, you should comply. I saw your interview ...

V.CASTILE: Absolutely.

LEMON: ... on CNN. Right. And you're very adamant about that. You said, you taught your son to do that. But yet and still, you know, his girlfriend is saying that he did but he's not with us today. What do you say to that?

V. CASTILE: I say it's inconceivable. I don't understand that one. I mean, god works in mysterious ways and I don't know if my son was a martyr and he's got something else to do behind him being killed like that. Maybe some changes will be made because of him dying in that manner and it's being seen live, streamed live as it's happening.

So maybe he -- that that's what's going on. That was his destiny. That's what he was put here on this earth for. Because he's -- that went worldwide. Everybody saw it. Everybody was devastated. And I think that's part of the reason. I just didn't understand and then I didn't know why it would be my son, my one and only son.

LEMON: Can I ask you guys something? How are you able to do this? How are you able to get on television and speak so clearly and -- how do you do it?

[23:15:04]V. CASTILE: Well, me personally ...

C. CASTILE: Can I answer the question?


C. CASTILE: I've been sitting here listening and you've been talking to Tracy and Val and by passing me.

LEMON: No, I didn't mean to. Forgive me. You could have jumped in at any point but I just -- I don't understand where this three could've done it ... C. CASTILE: I could have just chimed in.

LEMON: Yeah.

C. CASTILE: The composure is coming from. The thing is, we have a message to share. And being irate, distraught, you know, sad and not being able to focus and get this message across. It's not the best thing. The best thing for us is to be cool. It's to be able to explain how we feel about our nephew, what type of person my sister's son was, you know, and what type of legacy that he leaves behind. How he affected people in a positive way throughout his short-lived life. We've been talking about a few different things. Excuse me, but I bounce around a lot. I can't help t it's just my nature.

LEMON: You're allowed. Go for it. Go on.

C. CASTILE: In regards to the police and their relationships with the community and things of that nature, I in my opinion think that more police should come from the neighborhoods in which they live in whereas they know the people and know how to communicate with the people in that neighborhood. And that way that develops better relationships just with that. And then there's the training, that the type of training that these police officers get. I believe -- I don't know for sure but police officers are trained to kill. Yo know, not to shoot to wound or to warn.

V. CASTILE: I think he's right about that.

C. CASTILE: You know, and then, I mean, for some reason -- I mean I believe there was -- it used to be a scale, you know, of force, how you would treat a person when you came to him. You talked to him nicely then you talk to him with a strong fist and then you go to the taser, to the gun or the baton or whatever it was. You do all these things before you kill them or pull the weapon. You know, depending on what the situation was like. It's like these things have changed. Police officers go straight to the gun. You know, they'll give you a verbal command and if you won't do what they do then you're shot, killed, maimed.

V. CASTILE: Absolutely.


V. CASTILE: Yes indeed.

C. CASTILE: And so that's -- I don't think of some more things to say in a minute unless you give me a direct question.

LEMON: No, no, no. But we're good. But you'll think of it. You'll have to call me and tell me. I have to run. But I got to tell you again.


LEMON: Thank you guys and please keep us updated. I'm sure what you're dealing with, arrangements and all those things now. And you -- if it appears you have a strong family and I'm so happy that you can laugh right now. There's going to be lots of tears ahead. But to see you smiling is very important.


LEMON: Thank you so much. Thank yo Clarence.

C. CASTILE: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, Valerie.

T. CASTILE: Thank you.

V. CASTILE: Thank you very much. Appreciate the time.

LEMON: When we come right back, we're going to have much more than protests across the country. And I want to take these live pictures now. This is Phoenix, Arizona. Big protest happening there as well. We'll be right back.


[23:21:48] LEMON: I have live pictures of Phoenix, Arizona. You can see the protesters there. And it looks like there is a bit of pushing going on. But not really sure. So I don't want to call that. Again, protesters are out and they're exercising their right to protest. And we're going to continue to monitor that. There was a big rally in Atlanta tonight. There's one in San Francisco and now there is one going on in Phoenix, Arizona, that we're keeping an eye on. It could be just them trying to right around the media to get on television.

Any ways, let's move on. I want to talk now to CNN's Nick Valencia. Joining us now from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. So, Nick, since the shooting happened the other evening, tensions have been high there. What's going on? Take us to the scene.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We saw those tensions and just how high they got here, Don. It was about an hour ago we arrived on the scene, the corner of Airline and Goodwin, about a half a mile from the cop shop, the headquarters for Baton Rouge Police Department.

At one point we saw for the first time here in Baton Rouge, in the days we've been here, a SWAT line form. Riot police were out. It was a mixture of state and local law enforcement agencies. And I'm not sure how much you can make out behind me but they have asked us to move across the street largely the crowd has dispersed. At the height it they were -- perhaps up to 200, 300 people.

The cops, they are largely outnumbered, those demonstrators. There was a negotiation that was brokered between the protesters and the police. At one point, they allowed one of the lead protesters to get on the police megaphone to ask the crowd to disperse. The agreement being that the police would leave so the protesters would. That happened but as that was happening, somebody threw a cupful of ice at one of the SWAT police officers and that escalated tensions again. There were folks in the crowd that were trying to rile the protesters up. Trying to say that no one is leaving in the demonstrations in Atlanta. No on is leaving in Chicago. They shouldn't leave here in Baton Rouge. There was only a handful though that were trying to excite the crowd. There were state representatives, local politicians as well that were trying to temper any anger, trying to temper any frustration here in the crowd.

Within the last ten minutes, things have largely calmed down. Traffic is moving again. 15 minutes ago, that was not the case. Things were at a standstill and there were some fears that perhaps a tear gas could be used. The police asked children to be removed from the scene. Right now, it is not as tense as it was 15 minutes ago but the crowd is not altogether gone. Police are still very heavy presence here on the corner just a couple blocks away from the Police Department Headquarters here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

LEMON: CNN's Nick Valencia. Nick, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Let's discuss all of this now with my CNN panel, Political Contributor, Van Jones is here. W. Kamau Bell, host of united shades of America and New York Times op-ed columnist, Mr. Charles Blow who has exactly been on air probably longer than I have. You were on new day this morning, weren't you? Are you getting enough sleep?


LEMON: How are you holding up?

BLOW: A few hours of sleep. It works.

LEMON: No. I seriously mean that. How are you holding on?

BLOW: You know, I think that are -- there comes a point when you realize that whatever you're going through, it has -- it shrinks.

LEMON: Yeah.

BLOW: ... it pales in comparison to what people say, families of the officers, the families of the people who too were killed by the police officers.

[23:25:07] And so, you know, that gives you a bit of wind in your sails.

LEMON: I said that to them in the commercial break. They said, how are you doing? I'm tired. Tired as hell. But, you know, what I said? I can't even complain ...

BLOW: Exactly.

LEMON: ... that's considering what happened.

BLOW: Exactly.

LEMON: I want to play this. This is an extraordinary clip. It's from Diamond Reynolds from CNN this morning. She is Philando Castile's girlfriend, the man who was shot dead by police in Minnesota.


REYNOLDS: This is bigger than Philando. This is bigger than Trayvon Martin. This is bigger than Sandra Bland. This is bigger than all of us. So today, I just want justice for everyone, everyone around the world. Not just for my boyfriend and the good man that he was. Because I'm going to continue to stay strong for him and I want all of you guys to do the same.


LEMON: Van Jones, you first. When you step back from the events of the last few days, do you think we've sort of crossed the ruin con where there's no going back? Are we at a crisis point here?

VAN JONES, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I think the temperature keeps rising. And I think that this is a new state and a new stage. You know, part of what -- we have people want to blame the Black Lives Matter, young people for having the wrong slogan or blame this or blame that. What you're seeing is the result of a complete failure of the system at the highest levels. Here in Washington D.C., no truly significant legislation has been passed, you know, frankly, for years. But certainly dealing with this issue.

So what you have is the walls are beginning to crack under the pressure of the elites failing the people. And that's -- this is a piece of everything that's going on in the political system, the election, the dysfunction, the craziness. The elites are not doing their job. And so what you have now is just desperation and fear economically. Now, in the justice system, in the streets, crazy people are grabbing guns are shooting out Planned Parenthood. They're shooting up black churches. They're shooting at cops. And the system still has not responded.

And I think at a certain point, you have to recognize that yes, we are now at a higher level of alert. And at some point both political parties and the leadership have to begin to pass laws to do something or it's going to get worse.

LEMON: Kamau, that is what you do. That is what you have been tasked to do here at CNN, it's to cover really the diversity of America and untold stories in America, and part of this election year, you know, some of the candidates have -- and people will say Donald Trump has capitalized on a voice and a demographic in America that many people have not heard or haven't paid attention to.

W. KAMAU BELL, UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA: Yeah. I think it's hard to sort of think that people haven't paid attention to that voice, that voice of sort of -- that rhetoric is always present in America. And I think the thing that happens like with the news and with people coming on news programs like this, as we saw with Joe Walsh, he gets to hide behind his sort of the rhetoric and actually have a real conversation with you.

You know, I mean at best, he's running to be Donald Trump's VP nominee at this point. But there's just a sense that like people are hiding behind the rhetoric. And I think we need to change the narrative. I think there's at -- we're dividing in the two camps. There is the police community and the black community. And I feel that's just wrong. The police community is supposed to be a part of the community. They're not supposed to be their own separate communities.

And I feel like with United Shades of America, when I sit down, people have real conversations with them, the rhetoric melts away. And so I feel that's what real conversations have to happen that where people aren't hiding behind the rhetoric. Or else this -- it's going to happen again. It's just going to keep happening. You know, and why but as Van said, the temperature is rising.

LEMON: Does that happen when you're face to face, Charles, is it with that sort of conversation? Because, you know, you and I can have a -- if you and I sit together and talk, it's hard to be -- I notice when people on television and they're sitting in boxes and aired by satellite. They can be really, really, really rude to each other.

BLOW: Right.

LEMON: But when you sit across the room or next to someone, you have to engage them at least in a way that it -- in a personal way that you may not if -- in another situation.

BLOW: Well, I do think personal interaction, we see the humanity in people when you're next to them and we are talking to them. However, you know, this idea that the oppressed need to educate oppressive forces out of being oppressive is in fact a form of oppression right? The idea that if someone is racist to me, that it is now my obligation to do the work to change the defect in you puts the onus on me. I mean, it's like I don't have the time. I mean, put more, that's a great phrase that just says one of the great, you know, effects of racism. Not just telling the intention but the effect is at -- is it that -- is that you -- it's a distraction. It keeps you explaining things that don't need explanation.

LEMON: But it's also, yes. It is but it's also like here's ...


CHARLES BLOW, CNN NEWS POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, effects of races. Not necessarily your intention but the effect is that it's a distraction. It keeps you explaining things that don't need explanation.


DON LEMON, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Well, it's also --

BLOW: Police ... LEMON: Yes, police. But it's also like -- here's how I see it. When you tell someone, well, you have an issue with this or if they tell you and you go, "No, no, no, I don't." It's -- maybe we should see each other as marriage in America. Because when you're in a marriage, you got to go to counseling, you got to deal with it, you got to say yes dear, you got say, "Well, sometimes you're right and maybe I'm wrong." But we don't do that with each other as brother and sister maybe of different races.

BLOW: No. I'm not in a marriage. We're getting a divorce. I refuse to be in an abusive relationship with somebody who is abusive to me.


BLOW: No, no, no. No. What I'm saying is this. Your defect is not my problem. If you need educating, then you need to do that work.

LEMON: But, Charles, I understand what you're saying and I agree with you at some level. But we all have to live here and even if someone has a defect, you can know it. But it doesn't mean that you have to put up with them or live with them. But I think that in some ways, you can be the bigger person to help educate them. It's tiresome. You're not going to do it all the time.

BLOW: I think that there are fantastic people in the world who have the patience and the wherewithal and all to do that. I do believe, however, every moment that I take explaining something that does not require an explanation is a moment that I've taken away from doing my work in the world. It's a moment that I have taken away from my loving my family. It is a moment that I have taken away from nurturing my spirit. I won't give that to you.


VAN JONES, CNN NEWS POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I got to get to something else. You guys are going to stay here. We'll go quick.

The most ironic thing is that Charles Blow is probably the best explainer right now on the American Scene saying how he does not want to explain. I just want to point out that without your explanation, most of us would be lost. By the way, you can go ahead.

LEMON: But here's the thing. Well, Charles and I, you know, I love Charles and we can disagree, right? And be respectful to each other and still be friends.

BLOW: Right, right.

JONES: But neither one of you has a gun.

LEMON: That you know about them all. So listen. I want bring in now the Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed. He joins us now by telephone. And you've joined the conversation. I'm not sure how much of it you've heard. But, Mayor, we have been discussing the protests that are happening around the country, one of which happened and may still be going on in Atlanta tonight. And you are actually out there with the protesters, right?

KASIM REED, ATLANTA MAYOR: Yeah. I felt that it was just a moment and that there was a real need. And so many of the protesters tonight came from the Atlanta University, and that's actually where so much of the civil rights movement during the late 1950s and '60s was birthed. So I thought it was appropriate during this critical moment when I felt like protesters had moved in a different direction that I go speak to the young people directly. So I did that.

LEMON: Yeah. As you have been, you know, you're the mayor of a very big city and a very diverse city with a big African-American population, and the police department there. How are you dealing with these issues, the issues between the community and policing in Atlanta and how should people around the country deal with this sort of divide that we have?

REED: Well, you know, Don, I think we're actually leaning into the community. If you look at the population of our Police Department, it really does mirror the population of the city of Atlanta.

Last year in 1.6 million interactions with public, our police officers fired their weapons less than ten times in 1.6 million interactions. Last year in the city of Atlanta, less than 100 people were murdered. So I think that what you really have to do is, is that you need to respect law enforcement, but you also need to make sure that the relationship is mutual. So we're doing the very best we can in the city of Atlanta.

And last night we had 1500 people protest the awful murders of Philando Castile and also Sterling, and then of course, this morning, we expressed our deep sorrow over the loss of the officers in Dallas. We had 1500 people protest and zero arrest.

But today, we have more than 10,000 people protest in the city of Atlanta, we respect people's first amendment rights. We've had very little loss of property. And we've had less than 12 arrests today. So we think that protest is a part of the DNA of the city of Atlanta because we are the home of Dr. Martin Luther King and the home of CNN, where CNN was founded. So, we think it's right to provide a safe space for individuals to protest.


And so we're going to have a long night. But I think we're going to get through it in a good fashion.

LEMON: And it was, as you know, my home for seven years ...

REED: I know.

LEMON: ... in Virginia Highlands, right there on a direct (ph)...

REED: I know.

LEMON: On a direct (ph) avenue. But I have to -- I want to ask you this, because, as a mayor, I don't know if you saw the secretary, Hillary Clinton's -- the Former Secretary's interview with Wolf Blitzer today. And she said something that I thought was very interesting. And I'm paraphrasing here. She said I think it's important. She says she's going to -- she wants to call on all white people. And these are her words, paraphrasing here, to understand what African-Americans in this country are going through to sort of empathize with the African-Americans. And I found her statement very interesting. And what I said on the air to Wolf Blitzer and it's kind of similar to the conversation that Van Jones and I -- I mean, I'm sorry, that Charles Blow and I were just having about looking within yourself and then also helping other people understand. Did you happen to see the secretary's comments? What do you think?

REED: Don, I didn't see the secretary's comments. But I certainly understand them. And, you know, one of the things that's exciting about this protest tonight is our young people have an expectation that they will be treated fairly and just. And so I view that as a kind of progress. I mean, my dad used to tell me the story about his parents when he demanded that his grits be served hot for them, right? And so, every generation makes -- they demand that might have been unusual at a moment. And so this generation of young people fully expects that their rights will be respected and to the extent that they're seeing they're not, their tolerance level is much different than perhaps my generation or my parent's generation.

So all of this, this progress, it's messy, it's achy, it is painful, but we are moving towards a fairer society. I said just the other day, Don, I said that many of the things that we're seeing on videos regarding these murders, this treatment of black people and other people. it's been going on. And, you know it and I know it. Before I was an elected official, I got stopped in my car all of the time. My dad drilled in to me the lessons of driving a vehicle as a black man, keep your hands on the steering wheel when you're pulled over, look forward, say, "Yes, Sir" or "Ma'am" to the police officer. Place your wallet in the seat by you. Ask for permission to do anything, because he was concerned about me living. He just wanted me to get home safe. But this generation, they have a different expectation. They expect to be treated fairly and lawfully. And so we've got to give them the space to lead their protests and to be a part of the solution. Sorry it was long.

LEMON: No, no. Right, because we're -- I'm enjoying the conversation. I also want to say that Van Jones is here, Charles Blow is here ...

REED: Hi, Van.

LEMON: ... and also W. Kamau Bell is here.

JONES: Hello, sir.

LEMON: Do you guys have any questions for the mayor? Let's just talk.

BLOW: I mean, one thing that I find fascinating, Mr. Mayor, I want to know what your take on this is, you know. We kind of in media assumed that there would be a repeat of the last assassination of police officers with this ambush of police officers in Dallas, where protesters basically kind of calmed down after that assassination between the time of the assassination and the time of the funeral and things kind of cooled down. This is markedly different. These protesters are rejecting the idea that that person represents them the way that people keep trying to project him.

LEMON: He said he wasn't in that.

BLOW: He said he wasn't a part of it.


BLOW: But, if you listen all day to, you know, some conservative media, they've been trying to attach him to the black lives matter movement and to those protesters. And what we are seeing tonight is not only did it not take the wind out of their sails. In some cases, it seems like they have even ramped up the protests.

LEMON: Yeah.

BLOW: And I think that's a fascinating phenomenon because they are rejecting what is being placed on them.

LEMON: Yeah. Quick response, Mayor, because I have to get to break. You know how that is.

REED: I mean, I think that that just goes to the point that this is a different generation with different expectations. And I think it also points to the result that you have seen in case after case where black people lost their lives at the hands of law enforcement. But we have to respect the 99.9 percent of law enforcement officials who do good every day. So, we have to act decisively when the individuals in the law enforcement community do wrong.

LEMON: Mayor Kasim Reed, thank you. The rest of the panel, we'll be right back.



LEMON: We're back having -- I'm loving this conversation with Van Jones, Kamau Bell and Charles Blow and we have the Mayor of Atlanta on earlier, Kasim Reed.

Kamau, I want to ask you this. It's hard to solve a problem when people can't even admit -- some people can't admit that there is a problem or exactly what the problem is.

W. KAMUA BELL, AMERICAN ARTIST: Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I think about I was watching your show before I got on. And just see the body language of Joe Walsh versus the body language of the Castile family.

He, Joe Walsh, who threatened the president on Twitter is acting like somehow he's been wronged, and yet the Castile family shared a laugh with you. And so there's this thing, where black people, we sort of feel like we have to sort of rise above and be on our best behavior and sort of -- and be the sort of spiritual leaders. And meanwhile, Joe Walsh is threatening the president and gets booked on your show. You know what I mean? Like there's -- we have to change the narrative. We have to stand up.

And the other thing I want to comment on is the fact that we talk about -- there's a sort of recurring narrative like, black do the right thing when the cops talk to you, hold the steering wheel, and yet Tamir Rice, John Crawford III, they didn't have the chance to even do the right thing before they were killed. And I feel like we have to sort of address that thing that you can't good behavior yourself out of being killed by a police officer all the time.


LEMON: So, into Charles's point, where he says, you know -- I think, Charles, you're exhausted sometimes from trying to educate people or pull people up or show them why they may have biases or whatever. I mean, that was -- that was a difficult exchange with Joe Walsh, but sometimes I welcome that. But I can't understand how you can get tired of it.

JONES: Can I say something about Joe Walsh? One of the things I thought was particularly disgusting about his appearance. Was that he starts the clock running for when America goes to hell at Ferguson and what President Obama said about Ferguson, but he insulted the President of the United States ...

LEMON: "You lie".

JONES: ...but he stood up on the house floor and screamed out, "You lie," to the President of United States within the first six months of him being in office. I would say that's when America started going off the rails. If you want to start trying -- if words matter and conduct matters, having an unprecedented show of disrespect to a sitting president within the first six months, he hadn't said anything about Ferguson or Trayvon or anybody. And that's where -- that supposed I thought it was particularly galling to hear that from him. And I think that we have to recognize that there's a certain section of people in the country that are just not willing to be self-critical at all.

It's amazing to me -- I was very proud actually of the mother who said I'm not going to forget him today. You know ...

LEMON: You ...

JONES: In Charleston, we had all those black people shot up and the first thing they said we forgive. And everybody just praise them for being forgiving. We never have the conversation about this new rise of racist violent groups. She said I'm not going to forgive and she refused to play into that role. I thought that was very, very good.

LEMON: I've got to go. But you're eating up W. Kamau Bell's comment. Kamau, I'll give you the last ...

BLOW: Oh, you give him the last -- oh, man.

LEMON: .. 20 seconds. You got to go, Charles.

BLOW: Well, can I follow-up on what Kamau said?

LEMON: I yield -- are you going to yield the floor to the gentleman from "The New York Times." Go ahead with the rest of your time.

BLOW: Well, the one thing I said that I thought particular interesting was just the idea that you actually can't -- you can't behave your way out of it, right. Yes, I tell people all the time, when they pull a gun, you can't pull a resume. You don't have that sort of time. You can't say, "I go to this fancy school, you can't shoot me," "I have this fancy job, you can't shoot me," "I've never done anything wrong in my life, please don't shoot me." It doesn't happen that way. To me, Rice didn't have anytime to say any of those things.

LEMON: Right.

BLOW: That is not the way that it works.

LEMON: Yeah. I've got to run. This is great. It was like we were out for drinks and, you know.

BLOW: No, it's like a barbershop. We used to say it's like a barbershop.

LEMON: Charles, you don't have any hair, and van.


LEMON: And I barely have any.

Thank you, guys. Thank you. I'm glad that we could smile through such a difficult times and have this really interesting conversation. I really appreciate it.

Up next, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump reacting to a week of deadly violence. What the candidates are saying tonight.



LEMON: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both cancelling campaign events out of respect for the police officers killed in Dallas, each calling on Americans to respect law enforcement.

Here to discuss now, CNN Political Commentators, Angela Rye, and former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus, Kayleigh McEnany, and she's a Trump supporter. And also with me, Republican Strategist Alison (ph) -- Alice, excuse me, Stewart, the Former Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz.

Before I get to you guys. We were discussing -- I was talking with Van Jones and he was mentioning the person who said you lie to the president. It wasn't Joe Walsh, it's Joe Wilson of South Carolina. I apologize for that.

So, Kayleigh, this has been an extraordinary emotional deadly week, the kind of week when that nation looks for -- and needs a leader. Do you think Donald Trump has shown a kind of leadership that we can expect in a president?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN NEWS POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do. I think it was the right move for both of the candidates to cancel the events. We heard him mentioned those awful deaths of the officers and also the two deaths of -- he referred to them as the motorist. He mentioned both as he should have and then he faded into the backdrop. Because today was not about Hillary Clinton and it was not about Donald Trump, it was about honoring these officers and talking about the awful tragedies we've seen, and figuring out how we can get to the place where Martin Luther King said, "We have to learn to live together as brothers or we will perish together as fools." That is what today was about and it was nice to see the candidates fade into the background.

LEMON: I want you guys to listen to a bit of a video statement that Donald Trump released tonight. He started by talking about the brutal attack on Dallas Police and then said this.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Every American has the right to live in safety and peace. The deaths of Alton Sterling in Louisiana and Philando Castile in Minnesota also make clear how much more work we have to do to make every American feel that their safety is protected. Too many Americans are living in terrible poverty and violence. We need jobs. And we're going to produce those jobs. Racial divisions have gotten worse, not better.


LEMON: So, for the sake of time, a quick responses, everyone, because I also I want to get to Hillary Clinton as well. Do you think he struck the right tone, Angela?

ANGELA RYE, IMPACT STRATEGIES CEO: No, I don't. I think that Donald Trump, one, was late on commenting on the deaths of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. I think that he waited for Dallas for a reason, and that is that he didn't want to comment. He didn't think he was worthy of commenting on them beforehand. I also think it is unfortunate to say that this is about jobs. Could people continue to, in some ways, victim blame here? And this wasn't about employment. Philando Castile had a job, where he was doing very well seeking and feeding and serving these kids.


RYE: So, it's not about jobs here.

LEMON: Yeah. So, I want to turn now to Hillary Clinton's response and interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer today. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm going to be talking to white people. I think we're the ones, who have to start listening to the legitimate cries that are coming from our African- American fellow citizens, and we have so much more to be done and we have got to get about the business of doing it. We can't be engaging in hateful rhetoric or incitement of violence. We need to be bringing people together. And I've said on the campaign trail repeatedly, "We need more love and kindness." And I know that's not usually what presidential candidates say, but I believe it and I'm going to be speaking about it from now all the way into the White House and beyond.



LEMON: Alice, is that the answer? More white people need to empathize with African-Americans?

ALICE STEWART, FORMER TED CRUZ COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I agree. They were both right to cancel campaign events. This is not about the presidential race. It is about the human race. And I think to a degree, Hillary Clinton is right. It's about more love and kindness. I think Mayor Reed made a good point that this generation is looking for more fair treatment, a lawful treatment. But at the same time, there needs to be more respect and fair treatment for police officers, and I think that is what we're getting away from.

But I think both Hillary and Donald Trump did the right thing today by issuing their words of supports and concern for the victims. Giving it a day to breathe, let the families grieve. And then I'm sure we'll hear much more tomorrow out of the two of them moving forward on ways that we can combat senseless violence and senseless tragedies such as we've had over the last few days. It's just too much, too soon and should not be happening.

LEMON: Yeah. I have a very short time left, but s so much anger and fear in the black community and law enforcement community. What should leaders be saying to calm tensions, if I can get ten seconds from each of you? First, Angela?

RYE: I think that listening is right but I think we need to be careful with the rhetoric we use for someone to say that respect is needed more for officers, I just ...

LEMON: OK. Kayleigh?


MCENANY: I think the main point is there are seven families tonight that are going to experience their first weekend without our loved ones. We all are going about our weekend. There are seven families.

LEMON: Alice? STEWART: And as Charles Blow said, everyone wants to go home at the end of the night. And let's peacefully co-exist. Let's find a way to bridge the gap and live together in peace and harmony and that is the best answer.

LEMON: Thank you all. Have a great weekend considering the circumstances. I appreciate you joining us.

Thanks for watching, everyone, and I'll see you right back here on Monday night. Our live coverage continues in just a moment with George Howell in Dallas and Michael Holmes at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Good night.