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CNN NEWSROOM

Robert Moore Discusses Bravery of the Officer Who Rescued Him; Obama Returns from Europe to Visit Dallas; Potential VPs Join Donald Trump on the Campaign Trail; Commentators Go Head-To-Head on Clinton and Trump Regarding "lack Lives Matters. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 11, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Some of them (ph) because you come from a family of police officers, right?

[10:30:03] ROBERT MOORE, PHOTOGRAPHER: My brother is a Chief of Police. He's been a police officer for 38 years. My nephew is a detective on another department. So when I see that face of that officer, I'm -- I see my brother, I see my nephew who could be put in that similar situation anytime.

And we see these incidents way too often and for law enforcement families. And for everybody involved from every angle no matter whether you're there right next to it, or down the block, or across the country, it's very intense. And it's a very sad situation.

And it, but, for me, Ana, if I could put a face on what the police go to and sign up to do -- I didn't go out to get into a shootout but that officer ran into a place where there was live fire in order to cover me and the two officers that I was next to, who only had small arms fire. He's, he is really the focus of this story. Not what happened to me but what happened to those officers that day. My heart goes out to them and their families.

CABRERA: Yes, you need perspective.

MOORE: I share it.

CABRERA: We all do. Robert Moore ...

MOORE: Well ...

CABRERA: ... thank you for being here. Thank you.

MOORE: Thank you very much. Good morning, Anna.

CABRERA: Good morning to you, too. And still to come here on CNN's Newsroom, President Obama heading to Dallas tomorrow for a memorial service to also honor those fallen police officers. But should he also be visiting Minnesota or Louisiana, where black men died at the hands of officers last week, as well? Some say they don't understand why he's not going there and instead just going to Dallas. We're going to discuss a little bit more about that issue, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:36:10]

CABRERA: President Obama returned from Europe last night to a nation grieving for five police officers who lost their lives to a gunman last Thursday night in Dallas. He'll travel tomorrow to Dallas to revive a role he has taken on all too often, Mourner-in-Chief. Also attending the service will be Vice President Joe Biden and former President George W. Bush.

Now the President's trip to Dallas is not happening without criticism. Some are openly calling on the President to also go to the places where two African-American men died last week in confrontations with police. In an opinion piece, radio and TV host Tavis Smiley writes this,

"Some are asking, why not Falcon Heights, Minnesota? Baton Rouge, Louisiana where Philando Castile and Alton Sterling died at the hands of police? These shootings are connected, if not forensically, most certainly for a grieving country. A nation wrestling with what to do about our gun culture. For a President who has had to talk so much about gun violence on his watch, and so adequately explained from Poland, the data about the endangerment of black lives in America, he needs to visit both Minnesota and Louisiana. To avoid either is to misread the pain that his most loyal constituency, black folks, are feeling in this present moment." With me now is cultural critic, Michaela Angela Davis and CNN Political Commentator Marc Lamont Hill. Angela do you agree with those words? Should the President go to Minnesota? Should he go to Louisiana after Dallas?

MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, CULTURAL CRITIC: You know, look, I'm actually really encouraged that at this time we have this President -- who I think is not only brilliant and understands beyond intellect, the complexity of the American history around structural and institutional racism.

It's very difficult to talk about. It's very difficult to tackle because America has such an investment in white supremacy. So to go to Dallas I think is, for me, the first battlefield, right? Because even beyond the white supremist conversation and institutional racism, is the deep, deep fear that all of us are having.

So only people in deep fear arm for battle when facing communities. So the police are in deep fear. Only a community in deep fear stockpiles weapons for each other. So I think having to go to Dallas you have both the police and the community first, right?

So look ...

CABRERA: So you think that he is making the right call, it sounds like.

DAVIS: I think he's making the right call. However, I don't know if this is his last stop, right?

CABRERA: OK. DAVIS: So to assume that he's not planning other trips is an

assumption. But I think that what we're -- what we have to get to more than mourning, is really getting to what's at stake and what is happening. And every -- there's a global fear of otherness (ph), right? We're seeing that in the Western world playing out all over.

CABRERA: And we're seeing it in the Presidential campaign -- election campaign ...

DAVIS: Absolutely.

CABRERA : ... with some of the divisive rhetoric that we've heard. Marc, we also heard from another politician, somebody who's well known, especially here in New York, Rudy Giuliani who talked about "Black Lives Matter," and was very critical about this movement. He went as far as to call this movement racist and anti-American. Do you want to respond to those comments?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Wow there're so many things to say there. First of all -- and by the way, "Black Lives Matter" in the movement for black lives, this morning issued a pledge which I actually tweeted out today, calling for justice, calling for peace. And calling for a togetherness in a moment where we're attempting to be divided. So I think it's really important to talk about that.

To say that the "Black Lives Matter" movement is racist is bizarre to me. Not just because black people don't have the institutional power to be racist or to deploy racism but because the movement has called for justice. It's called for demilitarization. It's called for non- violence. And because a few people enter that space and kind of colonize that space and do something other than what the movement is about doesn't mean the movement is wrong.

In the same way the Tea Party movement called for fiscal responsibility. But there were racists at the rallies, I've been to some Tea Party rallies, there were racists there. But I wouldn't say the Tea Party is a racist movement, as such. I would say that there are people who invade it and divert the movement.

And that's what's happening here. To say that it's un-American? There's nothing more American than expressing dissent. There is nothing more American than saying that we're moving in the wrong directions. Only when black people move and -- say the country's moving in the wrong direction that they say it's un-American or "go back with your own (ph) -- love it or leave it."

When conservatives in the 80s and 90s said America is moving in the wrong direction, when the moral majority said we're having a moral failure as a nation, no one said "well if you don't like it, leave it." They said OK, we'll try to change it. So now here in America, we say there's a moral failure of police violence. There is a moral failure of police terrorism at times. And there's a moral failure of gun culture for all people. We need to change that.

[10:40:50] CABRERA: Are police being unfairly targeted by the "Black Lives Matter" movement? By just solely focusing on that group?

DAVIS: No, I think -- because I think what we get confused in thinking that we are -- that people are attacking individual police. They're attacking the structure under which the police are working. And this is white supremist structure. So everyone under that structure is victim to what they're trying to dismantle, right?

So I think we get into this bad cop/good cop conversation when it is much bigger about structural institutional racism in which all of them are pawns. All of us are suffering under this institution ...

CABRERA: Right, right.

DAVIS: So it is -- it's intellectually lazy and it is also immature to just look at individuals. When we're talking about a legacy of institutional ...

HALL: I agree.

DAVIS: ... racism.

HALL: And that's why I needed ...

CABRERA: Real quick.

HALL: ... And that's why I needed President Obama to be, not just in Dallas, but Minnesota and Baton Rouge.

CABRERA: So you want to make sure he hits those other stops?

HALL: Absolutely. Because the reason we say black lives matter, is not to deny the legitimacy of other lives. It's to say these lives need priority, also. We've never called blue lives into question, right? Police -- cops' lives are never -- we do everything we can to support cops lives ...

DAVIS: No.

HALL: ... to honor them, to avenge their deaths, to find justice for their killers. All are things that should happen. We mourn them, we have memorials -- we do everything. And so -- and we should, I'm not saying we shouldn't do that. But in addition, we need to affirm the value of black lives.

So while the President offered -- as Tavis Smiley said -- very eloquent words from Poland, I need to know what you're going to do in Baton Rouge. I need to see you in St. Paul just like I needed to see you in Ferguson. Just like I needed to see you in Charleston. And I haven't seen you there, Mister President. And I need you there because the nation needs to see the symbolic value and then the institutional investment in healing the damage that has been done against black bodies by the State.

CABRERA: Well it's important conversation we're having. I thank you both for being here and lending your voices.

HALL: My pleasure.

DAVIS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Good to see you. Still to come, it's a big week here in the race for the White House. Hillary Clinton is expected to pick up a key endorsement. And Donald Trump's VP short list narrows. Could his pick be joining him on the campaign trail this week?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:46:50]

CABRERA: Chris Christie has been visible and very vocal advocate for Donald Trump ever since he threw his support behind the formal rival in the primaries. And today Christie will join Trump on the campaign trail as the two men head to Virginia where Trump will talk V.A. reforms. Trump's making this stop just days before the GOP convention kicks off. With the party's platform that at least initially sounds very similar to the presumptive nominee.

CNN's Sara Murray is joining me now with more on this. She's in Cleveland, the site of next week's RNC convention. Sara, Chris Christie isn't the only possible VP choice to appear with Trump in the next few days. Tell us more.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Ana. We are well within the veepstakes. So he will be with Governor Chris Christie today. That was someone who was mentioned early on but we've heard a little bit less about in recent days.

Now tomorrow he is going to be campaigning in Indiana though, with Indiana Governor Mike Pence. This is a guy who sort of came into the process late but is admired by many of Donald Trump's advisors. They feel like he's a steady hand, he can shore up some of the areas where Donald Trump is a little weaker. And today Pence made it very clear that he is a willing surrogate. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), GOVERNOR OF INDIANA: This country is facing great challenges at home and abroad. I think we need strong leadership supporting our troops. Strong leadership to get this economy moving again. And we need clear-minded leadership to make common sense, conservative appointments (ph) to the Supreme Court of the United States. And I'm prepared to make that case anywhere across Indiana and anywhere across this country if Donald Trump would want me to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now Mike Pence is a guy who not only shores up Donald Trump on the side of government experience, but he is also could bring an appeal to social conservatives that might not be fully comfortable with Donald Trump. And we're sort of seeing how Trump has changed the Republican Party already, in terms of the early drafts of the platform.

If you look at the first blush, it looks a little bit different than ones we've seen in the past. It includes Donald Trump's language on trade. But it's also a little bit more LGBT-friendly. It strikes language we've seen in the past that calls for a constitutional amendment to declare marriage as something between a man and a woman. Instead it says let's leave this up to the states. But it still keeps some pretty strict language in there on abortion. Back to you, Ana.

CABRERA: All right Sara Murray reporting for us in Cleveland today. Our thanks to you. Now Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are both being tested on their abilities to lead and to heal the nation after two police involved shootings took the lives of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. And of course, the Dallas ambush that left five officers dead.

The incidents highlighting the divide felt by Americans from all walks of life. Here to discuss, Bakari Sellers, a Clinton supporter and CNN Political Commentator, and Katrina Pierson, National Spokesperson for the Trump Campaign.

Katrina, this weekend Donald Trump tweeted this -- "President Obama thinks the nation is not divided as people think. He is living in a world of make believe." So my question to you, Katrina, is where specifically does Trump think Obama is missing the mark?

KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Well I think because we're looking at a situation in the country where we have what are people calling many problems with regard to police involvement or even in the black community. And these are actual symptoms of a much greater problem. Which is a severe lack of leadership, not just in this country, but in the black community.

And we look at "Black Lives Matter." "Black Lives Matter" started in 2013, long before Mister Trump was even rumored to getting in this race. And this has stemmed from irresponsibility at the executive level. You have a first black President who injects himself in local issues. Particularly when it comes to police. And now we have this problem, he's -- yes the President is missing it ...

[10:50:25]

CABRERA: But these aren't just local issues, these are national issues. Which is why the President is speaking out on the issues of racism and that type of thing ...

PIERSON: No absolutely not. These are local issues. Police officers are employed by your local communities who are run by people that you elect. And if we are having these problems in places like Chicago, even Baltimore, or in Baton Rouge, these are local issues. And I was very pleasantly surprised when I saw that the people in Chicago were rising up against their Mayor and against their Police Chief. Because that is where change is going to come with these issues.

CABRERA: Do you agree, Bakari? BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I absolutely don't

really have any idea what Miss Pierson's talking about. To say that we don't have leadership in the African American community, or to say that we're just some community that's walking around aimlessly trying to find or look for some Messiah is just not the case.

The President does have a tough task on his hands because right now you have people who are grieving for Alton Sterling and Philando Castile while they're also grieving for these five officers who lost their lives callously in such a tragedy in Dallas.

And yes, I don't believe we're as divided as some may make us out to be. I do believe that you have people on both sides, including Donald Trump, who try to insert divisive rhetoric to drive a wedge between people. This 1968 nationalistic rhetoric that Donald Trump has used so eloquently in his campaign, which has driven a wedge in this country.

But we're not as divided as people may believe right now. We're at a trying time in this country. But I believe, and I'm very proud that we have a President like Barack Obama who understands what African Americans go through every day when you want your son and daughter to come home.

And he also understands the plight of law enforcement, who rightfully so, they want to come home at night after a night out on the beat. So I'm glad that we have this President who can talk about these issues.

CABRERA: I want to show you both a poll ...

PIERSON: Well how can you say that he understands that though, considering ...

CABRERA: Hold on just a second, hold on just a second Katrina. I want to show you a poll though that really talks about how Americans think on this issue. Quinnipiac poll shows 61 percent of Americans feel this election has increased the level of hatred and prejudice in the U.S. And of that number, two-thirds blame the Trump campaign, 16 percent blame the Clinton campaign.

So Katrina, what would a President Trump do to unite blacks and whites and America?

PIERSON: Well as I said before several times, the truth is inherently belligerent. And just because you're speaking out against the bullying that's happening in this country, it makes you actually look at the problems.

Like I said, there is a severe lack of leadership. And what Mister Trump brings to the table, which we haven't seen in decades in this country, are the undoing of failed, liberal policies that have contributed to the downplight in the black community.

I mean, we've seen household incomes ...

CABRERA: Like what? PIERSON: ... for black families -- I'm getting there. We've seen

black household families income even drop after affirmative action. Even when you include population and inflation. And Mister Trump has made education a top priority. By getting rid of the monopoly that have trapped generations of black Americans in failed public schools.

He wants families to make those education decisions because the great eliminator of poverty is an opportunity to have a good education. And secondly, illegal immigration. Something else that's gone unchecked. These illegal immigrants are moving into black communities. They're overcrowding black schools, threatening resources in black medical facilities. And even in black churches.

This is a problem. And if you want federal involvement, it's got to come to getting rid of the policies that have made it the way things are today.

CABRERA: Bakari, real fast, we are almost out of time. But when it comes to Hillary Clinton, she too is facing challenges, especially when it comes to people trusting her. How can she be a leader if she doesn't have trust?

SELLERS: Well I -- she's going to have to go out and earn that trust. Secretary Perez said that best. But I can't let Katrina's statements, which were like borderline asinine, go unchecked. This is not the issue that we're having in this country. You can't string together a series of ills and just flawed policy prescriptions and think that all of a sudden voila, we're going to have some fixes. That's not the case at all.

I don't believe Donald Trump has the capability to bring people together. He's not a holleran (ph) chief (ph). You can go back to the Department of Justice and Labor, going back to when he was actually sanctioned for not renting to African Americans. Or the Central Park Five, or -- I mean it goes on, and on, and on, and on.

So I ask Katrina, maybe you can go back to your ...

PIERSON: And suing, and suing ...

SELLERS: ... maybe you can go back, maybe you can go back to ...

PIERSON: ... Palm Beach because he wanted blacks in his country club.

SELLERS: ... maybe you can go back to Donald Trump and ask him where are his criminal justice reform plans ...

PIERSON: Working with the Rainbow Coalition with Jesse Jackson to bling -- bring black Americans into his community.

SELLERS: ... where is his criminal justice reform plan?

PIERSON: By the way, Bakari, how is Hillary Clinton's and Bill Clinton's mass incarceration of black Americans working out for you? Do you know she's still one of the top recipients ...

SELLERS: Working out for me? What are you, what are you -- you're making ...

PIERSON: ... and wait a minute --

CABRERA: Hey guys, guys I've got to interrupt, I've got to interrupt ...

PIERSON: ... and she's still one of the top recipients of private prison money ...

CABRERA: ... I've got to interrupt here, Katrina I'm sorry to stop you. I know you both feel very passionate about this. We're running out of time in the show so Bakari Sellers, Katrina Pierson, our thanks. Appreciate your voices, we'll have you back on.

And just a quick programming note for you, Vice President Joe Biden will be sitting down with Jake Tapper at 4:00 Eastern, right here on CNN. I'll be right back.

[10:55:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE CHIEF: And we're convinced that this suspect had other plans. He just basically lied to us, playing games, laughing, asking how many did he get. And that he wanted to kill some more. He wrote some lettering in blood on the walls.

[11:00:00]