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Source: Gingrich, Pence Frontrunners For Trump VP; WSJ: Trump Wants An Attack Dog As His Running Mate; Sanders Endorses Clinton; Bernie Sanders: "I Am Endorsing Hillary Clinton"; Three Arrested In Alleged Plot To Kill Baton Rouge Officers; Trump Rally Underway With Possible VP Pick; Source: Gingrich, Pence Front-Runners For Trump VP; 3 Days, 3 Shootings: 7 Deaths; 5 Fallen Officers Remembered; Pres. Obama Honors Fallen Officers, Calls For Unity. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 12, 2016 - 20:00   ET



JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): -- balls at the crew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pijy ought to move.


MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got her right in the Pokemon!

MOOS: New York.


ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much for joining us. Anderson starts now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening. Thanks for joining us. A very big night of breaking news and presidential politics. We're coming to you from the site of the CNN special town hall conversation with House Speaker Paul Ryan. Jake Tapper is going to be hosting that. It gets under way at the top of the next hour.

Speaker Ryan will be facing questions from voters about the state of the country, the presidential race, and his relationship with Donald Trump. Paul Ryan as you know was Mitt Romney's running mate obviously four years ago.

Tonight, as we are going to air major developments in the Trump vice presidential search. He'll be speaking shortly in Westfield, Indiana. You see the stage there.

The man who will introduce him, Indiana Governor Mike Pence is now one of just two people still in the running. He and Newt Gingrich that according to a source familiar with the decision making process.

"The Wall Street Journal" reporting Donald Trump is looking for a running mate who can be a, quote, "fighter skilled in hand to hand combat," politically speaking. Chris Christie is out they say so there is that tonight.

Bernie Sanders endorsing Hillary Clinton as well today and of course, President Obama and former President Bush in their moving words in the police memorial this afternoon in Dallas.

We begin with the veep stakes and Govern Pence's leading role in it and we'll listen to him and Donald Trump when they start speaking. Let's bring in first CNN's Dana Bash, who is at the event. Dana, you spoke to Governor Pence earlier today. What did he say?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He made very clear, Anderson, in no uncertain terms, he wants this job. He is here in Indiana running for reelection. It's a tough re-election campaign and it was not clear at the beginning of the conversation about Pence as a potential running mate.

If he really did want it because a lot of Republicans in office or formers have said no, thanks, Mr. Trump, I don't want to be your running mate, but that is not the case for Mike Pence. I asked him specifically why he is so interested and here's part of his answer.


GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: Well, I'm very humble. My whole family is very humbled and very honor to be considered for this position. What I can tell you is that I think this is no ordinary time in the life of this nation and I am very confident that Republicans will come together.

BASH: Could you be the guy to help unite them?

PENCE: I think that would be for others to say, Dana. I really would. I will tell you that we've been honored to spend some time with Mr. and Mrs. Trump. We were very moved by how gracious and kind they were to our family, and I think -- I think he is going to be a great president. I think he is someone who has connected with everyday Americans like no one since Ronald Reagan.


COOPER: Dana, what about that sources are saying could be now down to two people?

BASH: That is what I'm hearing and that's what some of our colleagues are hearing and those two people, we are told, are Governor Pence and the former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. Now, as for Pence, he is obviously much less of a household name than Newt Gingrich, so the question is, who is he?

Well, I mentioned obviously, he is the sitting governor of Indiana, but he also is somebody with a dozen years of experience with the House of Representatives, Anderson.

He was a member of the House leadership and he is an Evangelical Christian. He actually often said that he is a Christian first and then a conservative and then a Republican.

That is something that people who are pushing for Pence inside the Trump camp say is obviously a big positive, not only that he has watched his experience, which Trump has said he wants.

But also that he could calm the nerves of some still in the conservative base. So that is one of the reasons why he seems to be rising to the top.

We are still, though, waiting to see what happens when they appear in public. I should tell you, they are very late for this event and our colleague, Eric Bradner, was told that at a fundraiser where they are as we speak, the two of them had a one-on-one meeting.

COOPER: Dana, I mean, I guess tonight is sort of a trial run in some sense. Not only were they spending time privately, but also publicly on the stage tonight, which is why we will bring you Pence's remarks introducing Donald Trump. Do we know for sure when Trump, A, will decide and B, will announce?

BASH: We are told that the plan is for him to announce on Friday. There are some who suggest that Donald Trump has already decided, but, look, having been through this process, I guess, with more conventional candidates, many cycles, it is always a guessing game. And at this point, when it is so close to that decision sometimes the candidates in the campaign like to play games with the press to keep the kind of the suspense going.


BASH: But in this particular case, you're exactly right. What we will see behind me is going to be very important because one of the names of the game for Donald Trump is to see firsthand that there's chemistry between them in front of a big rally like this.

[20:05:05]But also that the person who he's going to pick could get out there and rally the base for him.

COOPER: All right, Dana Bash. Dana, thanks very much.

With us here at the town hall site, chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, Trump surrogate, John Jay LaValle, conservative Trump critic, Tara Setmayer and Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona, who is supporting Hillary Clinton this year and was one of her campaign advisers eight years ago.

Trump just did an interview with the "Wall Street Journal," he said he wants his running mate to be an attack dog. Every time we've talked to him he said he wants somebody who has experience on Capitol Hill who can help him with the Congress. What does Pence give him? What does Gingrich give him?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Gingrich gives him the attack dog. Pence is not an attack dog. I mean, I would argue, if I were to talking to Donald Trump right now, you're your own attack dog and you don't really need a vice presidential attack dog. But I think he wants somebody perhaps to share that burden. Pence is somebody -- don't forget, he was a Ted Cruz supporter so what he does is deflate the kind of anti-Trump faction.

COOPER: He was also critical of Trump over his comments on the judge --

BORGER: Curiel (ph), yes.

COOPER: -- the Mexican judge.

BORGER: Yes, he was. And so you know, he is somebody who will have to explain a few things, but he is very different from Donald Trump. I mean, Donald Trump is out there attacking. Cruz is kind of the ying to his yang, you know? He's very soft-spoken. He doesn't like to go negative. If Trumps wants an attack dog, that would be Gingrich as we all know, not Pence.

COOPER: John, as a Trump supporter, who would you like to see?

JOHN JAY LAVALLE, TRUMP SURROGATE: Whoever Donald Trump picks, that's who I'd like to see. Mike Pence would be an excellent choice. He's got the Washington experience. He's an executive as the governor of Indiana. He's a solid individual, yes. There's that concept that you want to compliment yourself.

COOPER: He's also a solid conservative, which you know, some conservatives had a lot of concerns with Trump obviously.

LAVALLE: You're right. And the fact that he endorsed Ted Cruz and that Donald Trump would either consider him, I think that -- we're really starting to see -- you know, who Donald Trump really is.

COOPER: Do you think a lot of this boils down to Donald Trump's gut? What his gut feeling is about the guy?

LAVALLE: Absolutely. I think either choice would be awesome for Donald Trump, but we're going to see tonight the chemistry between, you know, Mr. Trump and Governor Pence, and I think you're going to like what you're going to see?



COOPER: You're not sold on Donald Trump.

SETMAYER: We already know about how I feel about Donald Trump. That's not news -- but anyway, look. But look, I don't know that -- look, Pence is a solid conservative, that he is, and he is an Evangelical. That's important.

Donald Trump has made it clear that he doesn't care about party unity. He said that many times. He said that he wants to reach across and get new voters. I don't know where Mike Pence fits in with that. Is he really the messenger that's going to attract the middle of the road voters because he is so conservative? I personally like Mike Pence and I don't know that he brings the gravitas to the ticket that someone like Newt Gingrich would particularly in a debate format.

He has to consider the vice presidential debate and who was going to be able to go up against whoever Hillary Clinton picks and I don't think that's going to be Mike Pence. Newt Gingrich is a skilled debater and he's skilled on issues and topics and he can spin the nonsense that Donald Trump is going to get himself into --

LAVALLE: Let me make something very clear.

SETMAYER: Donald Trump has never said he wants to unify the party.

SETMAYER: Yes, he has. He doesn't care.

LAVALLE: He is not going to try to unify the party at the cost of the message, of the mission. People are not happy with their government in America. Donald Trump has tapped into that.

COOPER: OK, Maria, you're obviously a Hillary Clinton supporter.


LAVALLE: Not true.

COOPER: Do you think either candidate worry you in terms of the vice presidential pick?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. Absolutely not. Because I think neither candidate does exactly what Tara has said he needs to do, which is broaden his appeal --

COOPER: You don't think Pence helps him broaden his appeal to conservatives, Evangelicals.

CARDONA: Well, what's interesting is he broadens his appeal among conservatives, but he needs to broaden his appeal among the American electorate. We are past the nomination. We are past the Republican primary process. He should have already broadened his appeal to conservatives and he hasn't been able to do that.

COOPER: So who would do that? I mean, Tara, some other like younger rising stars in the GOP?

SETMAYER: Well, I've always said from the beginning -- excuse me, that I thought that Donald Trump needed a general, someone like that, that's politically savvy and they floated Michael Flynn for a little there, but I think over the weekend Michael Flynn disqualified himself --

COOPER: He did the shaky interview.

SETMAYER: He was a little shaky on that. I've always said he needs someone to bring some foreign policy experience -- COOPER: Let's move on, though. I got to ask you about Ruth Bader

Ginsburg. What was she thinking? I've never heard a Supreme Court justice weigh in on a presidential election the way she did about Donald Trump?

BORGER: (Inaudible) to New Zealand?

COOPER: Yes. She talked about moving to New Zealand.

SETMAYER: Which is wonderful, by the way.

COOPER: She said I can't imagine what this place would be if Trump was elected and I can't imagine what the country would be with Donald Trump as our president.

[20:10:00]She went on to say, "For the country, it could be four years. For the court, it could be -- I don't even want to contemplate that." She went on to say he was a faker.

BORGER: Right. And Trump tonight told the "New York Times" that she ought to apologize to the court and I think he has a very good point.

COOPER: Even our Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst, who has written about the court said she went too far.

BORGER: She did go too far -- but what it does for Donald Trump I'll tell you this, is it solidifies his base because it brings to the forefront this question of the court, which is I think why he's going to start talking about it again because for him it just says OK, we have Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who doesn't like me. I need to appoint my own justices. I think it was in his advantage.

COOPER: We have to take a quick break and very big day on both sides of the campaign. Plenty to talk about.

Coming up next, we'll take up Hillary Clinton's major endorsement today, Bernie Sanders getting onboard and what he said today on the stump with her and whether his supporters would go along with it.

And at the top of the next hour, of course, our CNN town hall with House Speaker Paul Ryan. He has Newt Gingrich's old job. Even Speaker Gingrich waits to see if he'll get the running mate or not this time around and we'll bring you comments from Pence ahead.


COOPER: You see there we are waiting for a Trump rally in Indiana. He'll be introduced by one of two final candidates we are told to be his running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence.

We just learned Trump and Pence are about 10 minutes away and we'll bring that to you when it happens. Big news as well over on the Democratic side. Bernie Sanders taking a potentially bruising wild card out of the way for Hillary Clinton.

[20:15:03]The Vermont senator joining her on the campaign trail today as a supporter and not a rival. Jeff Zeleny reports.


JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He finally said it. He's with her.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president and I am proud to stand with her today!

ZELENY: Bernie Sanders jumped on the Hillary Clinton bandwagon today, showering her with praise and even a hug 35 days after she clinched the Democratic nomination. It was an awkward dance after a long fight, yet standing side by side spoke volumes about which party is more unified four months before Election Day.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't help, but reflect how enjoyable this election is going to be now that we are on the same side! We are stronger together!

ZELENY: Today's rally in New Hampshire had the feel of an arranged marriage and in many ways it was with more than a few holdouts in the crowd. But Clinton applauded Sanders as he spoke.

SANDERS: This campaign is about moving the United States toward universal health care!

ZELENY: And Sanders returned the favor.

CLINTON: We are not cutting the minimum wage, we are raising the minimum wage!

ZELENY: They're united behind the goal of defeating Donald Trump.

SANDERS: Hillary Clinton understands that our diversity is one of our greatest strengths.

ZELENY: His message was more anti-Trump than pro-Clinton, yet Clinton didn't seem fazed by it having been on the other side of the peace- making effort herself.

CLINTON: The next president of the United States, Barack Obama.

ZELENY: Eight years after that race, the Clinton-Sanders duel has zoned equally deep and passionate divisions. Several Sanders supporters told us they won't be following his lead.

(on camera): He says he will vote for Hillary Clinton, will you?


ZELENY (voice-over): Sanders made clear he would work to bring his supporters along.

SANDERS: I intend to be in every corner of this country to make certain that happens. ZELENY: Trump pledged today to go after dissenters tweeting, "To all the Bernie voters who want to stop bad trade deals and global special interests, we welcome you with open arms." But Clinton dismissed Trump and welcomes Sanders team into her fold.

CLINTON: I am proud to be fighting alongside you because, my friend, this is a time for all of us to stand together.


ZELENY: Senator Sanders said he will fight for Hillary Clinton in all corners of the country, but Anderson, he'll be doing it alone without the Secret Service protection he's enjoyed since February as a presidential candidate.

Now he is simply the junior senator from Vermont trying to make the case for Hillary Clinton and make good on his pledge to keep Donald Trump from winning the White House -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, thanks. Back with the panel, joining us as well is Clinton supporter and former senior Clinton White House adviser, Richard Socarides.

Gloria, I mean, Sanders did endorse her only once. How did you see this event? Do you think it's everything the Clinton campaign wanted?

BORGER: Finally, it took, what, 36 days and this was something that was planned in advance. They had to meet in Vermont and had to have dinner together. This was very well choreographed. It wasn't about love, right.

As Jeff was saying, it's an arranged marriage, but I think Bernie Sanders did everything the Clinton campaign wanted him to do, not only taking on Donald Trump, but making it clear to his supporters that this was not even a difficult choice and that he would campaign around the country.

And if I were the Clinton campaign I would have him on every college campus, in every battleground state in this country getting out that vote and mobilizing young voters for Hillary Clinton which she hasn't done well with.

COOPER: Donald Trump is obviously trying to reach out to disaffected --

LAVALLE: Absolutely.

COOPER: Do you think he actually can get any of that?

LAVALLE: Absolutely.

COOPER: Really?

LAVALLE: He will get good Clinton-Sander supporters. This was an awkward dance. The candidate that prided himself on fighting special interests just endorsed the candidate that embodies special interests. This is very awkward.

You know, a lot of these candidates think that whatever they say, now I endorse Hillary Clinton that all of the supporters are going, you saw in the audience. The polls say a lot of them aren't coming. I would say 20 percent of those Sanders supporters are going to vote for Donald Trump.

COOPER: Richard, the recent Pew poll shows 85 percent of Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton. I think 9 percent for Trump.

RICHARD SOCARIDES, CLINTON SUPPORTER: You know what Gloria says is very important. This may not have been about love today, but it was about mutual respect and I think that both Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton have always said that there was more that united them. There is more that unites us as Democrats than there was ever that divided us.

I mean, both of these people have fought so hard for more progressive America, an America where everybody can succeed, and so I think they really came together out of mutual respect.

[20:20:06]And we have an amazingly, this is a great moment for Democrats because we have a party that is so unified. We have the vice president. We have Bernie Sanders. We have Elizabeth warren all supporting Hillary Clinton. I mean, on the Republican side -- you don't have Bush, you don't have President Bush --

COOPER: Maria, I mean, there are a lot of folks who look and say Hillary Clinton has gone too far left and she was pushed too far left by Bernie Sanders.

CARDONA: I don't think that's going to be a problem because I think one of the reasons why this is going to work very well for the Democratic Party and for them during the general election that a lot of the issues that they're campaigning on and that they underscored during both their campaigns in the primary are issues that the American people agree with.

Climate change is where the American people are, not somebody like Donald Trump who thinks that it's a hoax. The majority of the American people believe that there is an issue with income inequality that you have to deal with that. I really don't think that's going to be a problem.

BORGER: I think it only becomes a problem on the issue of trust. Do you trust Hillary Clinton when you've seen her on both sides of a lot of issues? I think it goes to her Achilles heel --

SOCARIDES: It doesn't matter what anybody thinks about that issue. That issue is not going to drive progressives to vote for Donald Trump. It was a very thin endorsement.

COOPER: We have to take a break. Jake Tapper will host a CNN town hall with House Speaker Paul Ryan. He's going to get his stakes on Trump's veep stakes and much more. We are also waiting for Governor Pence to introduce Donald Trump. We want to see how they are relating to each other. This is a very public show, of course, between the two of them. We are awaiting them any minute and we'll bring that to you live.

Also breaking news, Baton Rouge police on high alert after what they say are credible threats against them.

Also ahead, President Obama and George W. Bush pay tribute to the five fallen Dallas police officers.



COOPER: We are expecting to hear from Donald Trump and Governor Mike Pence any moment now. We are going to bring their comments, really the first time we've seen them on a stage together in such a public event like this.

Obviously just days before it is believed Donald Trump will announce who his vice presidential candidate is. Sources saying it is down to two, Pence or Gingrich. We'll see how they are tonight.

More breaking news, though, officers in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, are on high alert because of two credible threats on law enforcement. Baton Rouge, of course, where Alton Sterling was fatally shot one week ago while being restrained by two police officers.

Boris Sanchez joins me with details about these threats. So what have you learned, Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, there is a manhunt under way right now for a fourth suspect in that initial threat that you mentioned. The burglary at a pawn shop here in Baton Rouge where several weapons were taken. It all started late Friday night, early Saturday morning.

During that burglary, one of the suspects was arrested by police. He had in his possession a handgun and BB gun and during the interrogation he told police officers that the reason for the burglary was to acquire weapons to use against law enforcement during protests here in Baton Rouge as the result of the death of Alton Sterling.

Because of information gathered during that interrogation, officers conducted a raid at a home in south Baton Rouge yesterday. There they arrested two more suspects and one of them a 13-year-old. Of the eight weapons that were taken during the burglary, six of them have been recovered.

Again, there's still one suspect on the loose and officials have made a plea to the community. If they know any information to come forward. They've also made a plea to the suspect to come forward in order to be processed peacefully.

You mentioned that second threat that we heard from officials today, it's critical to point out they received dozens of threats in the past week or so, threat against law enforcement and threat against the general public and protesters, but these two they're taking very seriously.

The second threat, a police officer that reported that he was being followed. We don't know specifically who he was being followed by. If it was a group or an individual or if he was being followed in a vehicle or on foot,

But he took it seriously enough telling officials that he was being followed by someone who was suspicious. They're dedicating resources to that investigation and obviously once we have more information on that we will bring it to you -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. What do we know about the suspects? Have the police said much about them?

Actually, I have to interrupt here -- let's listen in. We are about to see Donald Trump and here's Governor Pence. Let's listen in to see what he has to say tonight.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: My fellow Hoosiers, we are 119 days away from a great victory in the United States of America when Indiana becomes the first state on the board to make Donald Trump the 45th president of the United States of America!

You know, here in Indiana, we know that strong Republican leadership works, different from our neighbors in Illinois, we have balanced budgets. We've cut taxes and we've made record investments in education and roads and today there are more Hoosiers going to work than ever before in the 200-year history of the great state of Indiana.

That's what Republican leadership gets you, and that's exactly the kind of no-nonsense leadership that Donald Trump is going to bring to the White House this November!

You know, after seven and a half years with the failed policies of Barack Obama that have weakened America's place in the world and stifled our nation's economy, we are ready for a change in this state.

We are ready to put a fighter, a builder, and a patriot in the oval office of the United States of America. We are ready for Donald Trump to be our next president. You know, Donald Trump understands the frustrations and the hopes of the American people like no other American leader in my lifetime since Ronald Reagan.

The American people are tired. We're tired of being told. We are tired of being told this is as good as it gets. We are tired of hearing politicians in both political parties telling that we'll get to it tomorrow while a pile a mountain range of debt on our children and grandchildren.

And as Ronald Reagan said so --

[20:30:00] GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: ... as good as it gets. We're tired of hearing politicians in both political parties tell them that we'll get to it tomorrow while we pile a mountain range of debt on our children and grandchildren. And as Ronald Reagan said so eloquently, so many years ago, we're tired of being told that a little intellectual elite in a far distant capital can plan our lives better for us than we can plan them for ourselves.

Donald Trump gets it. Donald Trump hears the voice of the American people. He's been successful on Wall Street, but he's never turned his back on Main Street. He's never forgotten or forsaken the people who work with their hands, who grow the food, build our roads and bridges, tend to our sick, teach our kids and protect our lives and our property.

Donald Trump knows that the boundless potential of the American people awaits and we can make America great again. So we must come together and elect this good man as our next president. And we must elect this strong leader for one more reason, because Hillary Clinton must never become president of the United States of America.

You know -- you know, I heard Bernie Sanders endorse Hillary Clinton today. I actually served in Congress with Bernie Sanders, and let me tell you, he's the nicest socialist I ever served with in Washington, D.C. You know, Hillary and her party have been sliding so far to Bernie's leftist agenda it's hard to keep track of it. The truth of the matter is that they're -- I just have to tell you from my heart after looking at the r direction that their party has gone, farther and farther to the left, to paraphrase the director of the FBI, I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.

You know, we don't need a president who sees ObamaCare as just a good start. We don't need a president who promises to put coal miners out of work and raise the utility rates of hardworking Americans. And as the proud father of a United States Marine, let me say from my heart, we don't need a president who took 13 hours to send help to Americans under fire and after four brave Americans fell. Said what difference at this point does it make?

Anyone who said that, anyone who did that should be disqualified from ever being commander in chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America.

So let me say, for the sake of our troops who deserve a commander in chief who will have their back, for the sake of hardworking Americans and businesses who deserve a president who will get Washington, D.C. off their back, and for the sake of a Supreme Court that will never turn its back on the God-given liberties of the American people, let us resolve here and now that from this day forward we will unite. We will stand together. We will not rest. We will not relent until we make this good man our next president. My fellow hoosiers, I give you the next president of the United States America, Donald J. Trump.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You've just been listening to Indiana Governor Mike Pence, obviously, possible running mate for Donald Trump. Let's just listen in to see what Donald Trump says about Governor Pence there and if he gives any hints about a possible vice presidential pick.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Wow. Wow. Whoa. A lot of people. That's a lot of people. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. All right. Let's turn that music down. We want to get to business, right? Get to business. How's your Governor doing, by the way? Good? I think so. I think so.

I just want to thank all of the people of Indiana. You know, we had a great victory here not so long ago, and Indiana was the state that put me over the top. Thank you, folks. Thank you.

[20:35:00] Well, we have a lot of things to discuss, but we had some very bad news a few days ago and you saw what happened. A lot of bad things are happening. And I was going to go through a whole litany of that, but we don't want to. We want to be upbeat. We want to be positive. We want to be strong and we're going to be strong. We're going to be stronger than ever before. We're going to be greater than ever before. We're going to bring our jobs back.


COOPER: Donald Trump moving into his somewhat more standard stump speech, this is to a crowd in Indiana. We just heard from Indiana's Governor Mike Pence, a possible running mate.

Let's get a quick take from the panel of what we heard. Donald Trump told the "Wall Street Journal" just a few minutes ago before he came out on stage apparently that he wanted a vice presidential pick who could be an attack dog.


COOPER: Is Governor Pence that person?

BORGER: Well, I didn't think so until I just saw him and he was on the attack. It was -- if this was an audition, I think it was pretty good audition. I think it comes down to whether he can attack on the stump. Performance is very important to Donald Trump, don't forget. And also personal chemistry between them, which we know nothing about, right? I mean, that's the two of them to figure out.

COOPER: John, what do you think?

JOHN JAY LAVALLE, TRUMP SURROGATE: Well, I think the chemistry is there. As far as an attack dog, you can do it in a measured way. You know, the typical attack dog that we think of does not necessarily have to be someone, you know, who isn't measured.

BORGER: Like Trump?

LAVALLE: And I -- no, I like what I see and you do need the yin and yang. You need the chemistry. You need to compliment each other and there's different ways to go out at it. And I think he did a very effective job, the Governor ...

COOPER: Certainly Richard, I mean both Pence and Gingrich do satisfy the criteria that Donald Trump has always set up, which is somebody who can help him with Congress, get stuff done in Washington.

RICHARD SOCARIDES, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I think, you know, of any quote with the main thing with Governor Pence and what we saw in this speech is he is extremely conservative. I mean, he is at a very extreme right of an extreme right party. And you know, as Democrats, we would love to run against a ticket that include Governor Pence because he is so out of the mainstream of American thought.

I mean, a lot of the people in this country are moderates. You know, they believe that there's a -- there is a medium ground, there is a middle way. I mean, I think that that is the challenge for any president to bring the country together and find a way to do this. But Governor Pence has on so far on the extreme that we would love to run against him.

COOPER: Maria?

MARIA CARDONA, 2008 SENIOR CLINTON CAMPAIGN ADVISER: And let's remember that he's not a very popular governor in Indiana.

COOPER: He's facing a tough race in Indiana.

CARDONA: He's got a tough reelection. He's at 40 percent of approval rating and even now, just six of 10 Republicans say they would vote for him during his reelection. There are a lot of Republicans in Indiana who would love for him to accept this V.P. side of it. We're just ...

COOPER: Do you think that should be part of the criteria for Trump and thinking about that of what he's facing in Indiana?

LAVALLE: No. I think what Donald Trump's doing, and this is exactly the contrast between these candidates. Hillary Clinton looks at an electoral map. Donald Trump is looking for someone that's going to help him govern. It's going to help him put America back on track. Put Americans back to work ...

COOPER: You don't believe Donald Trump is looking for somebody who's going to help him in the actual political race?

LAVALLE: Well, it would he be speaking to Mike Pence who's from Indiana. We won nine out of the last 10, you know, elections there. No. He's looking -- America needs to hire the next president, someone who's serious about governing, someone who's serious about putting this country back on track and making our family safer. That's what Donald Trump is. Hillary Clinton is looking at the electoral map.

BORGER: From Trump's point of view, I think Pence would be the safest choice because he would appeal to conservatives. He would sort of settle down the party to a degree. Newt or Christie would be a little more hot, a little more controversial. For him ...

SOCARIDES: Here's why I don't think it's going to be Pence, and that is because he is really not ready for prime time. I mean, you saw when Indiana passed that anti-gay law that said that businesses could discriminate against gay people in Indiana, which he was championing, and he signed right away. I mean, he went on national news. He did an interview with Chris Cuomo.


SOCARIDES: He did an interview with George Stephanopoulos where he showed that he was so not ready for prime time. So I think that's why it's going to be Gingrich and the Democrats, we would love to run against Gingrich too.

COOPER: All right. We got to take a break. I thank everybody. A quick reminder, our CNN town hall with House Speaker Paul Ryan gets underway. At the top of the hour right behind me, the crowd is all ready.

Coming up next, President Obama and former President Bush sharing a moments in Dallas, their tribute to five fallen police officers.


[20:43:02] COOPER: Welcome back. Police departments across the country understandably on edge after a string of incidents culminating, of course, last week in Dallas and attacks on police officers elsewhere.

First, Alton Sterling was killed by police in Baton Rouge and a day later, Philando Castile was shot dead during a traffic stop in Falcon Heights, Minnesota. A day later, a sniper opened fires, you know, in Dallas during the protest to stop police shootings. The gunman told police he wanted to kill white police officers.

Today, in Dallas the five murdered officers were memorialized at an interfaith service, concert hall packed with law enforcement officials, political leaders and the families of the fallen.

President Obama spoke for 40 minutes calling the five men heroes and commemorating their courage.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES: When the bullets started flying, the men and women of the Dallas police, they did not flinch and they did not react recklessly. They showed incredible restraint. Helped in some cases by protesters, they evacuated the injured, isolated the shooter, saved more lives than we will ever know. We mourn fewer people today because of your brave actions. "Everyone was helping each other," one witness said. It wasn't about black or white. Everyone was picking each other up and moving them away. See, that's the America I know.


COOPER: President Obama also called for unity after a week that's threatened to deepen racial tensions.

More now from Suzanne Malveaux.


SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The President's words were equal parts eulogy and sermon, a call for unity, but also action.

[20:45:02] OBAMA: I've seen how inadequate my own words have been. And so, I'm reminded of a passage in John's Gospel, "Let us love, not with words or speech, but with actions and in truth."

MALVEAUX: Flanked by Dallas police and an interfaith choir, Mr. Obama used today's memorial service for the five officers killed Thursday to address the community and the nation.

OBAMA: I'm here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem, and I know that because I know America. I know how far we've come against impossible odds.

MALVEAUX: The president naming each officer spoke to their families, calling the fallen heroes.

OBAMA: When the bullets started flying, the men and women of the Dallas police, they did not flinch and they did not react recklessly. They showed incredible restraint.

MALVEAUX: But a weary and at times emotional Mr. Obama who said he has spoken at too many memorials and hugged too many families went further, talking candidly about race and justice in America.

OBAMA: We ask the police to do too much and we ask too little of ourselves. Race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime. Those who deny it are dishonoring the struggles that helped us achieve that progress, but we know -- but, America, we know that bias remains.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Obama's speech, which aides say he wrote himself, addressed not only the shootings in Dallas, it touched on the lives of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, two African-American men killed by police last week. The President saying officers and those they protect must find common ground.

OBAMA: Because with an open heart we can learn to stand in each other's shoes and look at the world through each other's eyes so that maybe the police officer sees his own son in that teenager with a hoodie who's kind of goofing off, but not dangerous and the teenager -- maybe the teenager will see in the police officer the same words and values and authority of his parents.

MALVEAUX: On stage with the President, Dallas Police Chief David Brown, honored with a standing ovation and former Republican President George W. Bush.

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those of us who love Dallas and call it home, have had five deaths in the family.

MALVEAUX: The singing and sorrow were a return for President Obama to yet another city heart broken, his 11th trip to grieve an American mass shooting since taking office.

OBAMA: I've seen too many families go through this, but then I am reminded of what the Lord tells Ezekiel. "I will give you a new heart," the Lord says, and put a new spirit in you.


COOPER: Suzanne, the President's having a meeting tomorrow with law enforcement, also activists, what do we know about it?

MALVEAUX: Well, really, Anderson, it's a continuation of what we saw yesterday at the White House. Law enforcement officials meeting with the President and the Vice President saying, "Look, this is what we need, more sensitivity, more training, more resources. Tomorrow, they're going to expand that and they're calling it a conversation on social justice and community policing. We're going to see civil rights leaders, activists, as well as some of those law enforcement officials, really trying to figure out a way to talk to each other, a way to come up with some solutions, just a way to open the dialogue, Anderson, so that there's such some sort of trust between these groups. Anderson?

COOPER: Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne, thanks. This is a week of solemn gatherings, obviously, for families of the fallen.

Lorne Ahrens' funeral will be on Friday. He was just 48 years old, six foot five, just a bear of a man, is how we've heard him described the last few day. His wife, Katrina, and their two young children were at today's service.

Katrina Ahrens is a detective on the Dallas police force and I spoke to her a short time before we went on air.


COOPER: Katrina, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what you and your family are going through right now. What do you want people to know about your husband?

KATRINA AHRENS, WIFE OF SR. CPT. LORNE AHRENS: Lorne was a good man in every sense of the word, good officer, good man, good husband, good friend. There's just -- there's nothing that you could say bad about him, in my opinion, and a lot of others' opinion. He was really good at what he did.

[20:50: 01] He was good at being a police officer. He was good at every part of it. He was so passionate about everything that he did.

COOPER: The fact that you both, I mean, you're a detective, you must have understood each other. I mean, it's one thing to have a spouse who does something completely different for the fact that you shared the same stresses, the same, you know, you saw the same things throughout the day, that must have, I mean, I don't know if that's all that common in the police force, but what was that like?

AHRENS: We were very close. We were very much a team. We were a team at work. We were a team at home. It was very easy to talk about work with him. We could commiserate together. We could laugh together.

One thing about Lorne is he had the best sense of humor in the whole world. I mean, there's just nobody that was funnier than him. And he could take any bad croppy situation and just make it funny. And that's one of the things that I liked about him the most. He was just -- he was so funny, you just wanted to be around him. You just wanted to absorb his personality.

COOPER: Right.

AHRENS: When he walked into a room, you just wanted to be around him and everybody wanted to be around him. He commanded a room, not just by his size, but just his energetic personality was sometimes exhausting. He had so much energy.

COOPER: Yeah. Did you meet on the police force?

AHRENS: We did. We met when he was still kind of in a training process.

COOPER: And did you know right away he was the one?

AHRENS: I didn't know right away. The first thing that I thought when I saw him, I'll give you the T.V. version was he was so big, so big. That was the first thing that I thought when I saw him. Wow.

I mean, I'm used to seeing big guys at work, but he's definitely the biggest. But he smile, he had such a great smile, happy, always happy.

COOPER: It sounds like he was kind of big on the outside, kind of a teddy bear inside.

AHRENS: The really need (ph) thing about Lorne is he could be tough as nails if he needed to, but he could be soft as a teddy bear if he needed to. Not a lot of people got to see the extreme ends of both parts of his personality but they were definitely there.

COOPER: President Obama spoke about your husband and about you at the memorial today. What did you think when you heard the President say that say those things?

AHRENS: Lorne would be so proud of the Dallas Police Department right now. He would be so proud of his chain and command right now. He would be so proud of all the officers out there that rallied together, that took care of business, that relied on their training, that did what they needed to do without even thinking about it.

We are one of the best trains police departments in the nation. And I think this past week was a shining example of how serious we take our training. And that being said, my husband took his training very seriously.

Everything he did from his firearms to defensive tactics to being well-equipped and he wouldn't have been scared at what was going on because he knew he could handle it if he had seen it coming.

And if he had seen it coming, it wouldn't have gone that way. Lorne wasn't scared of anything, and he certainly wasn't scared of taking a bullet, and he certainly wasn't scared of looking down the barrel of somebody else's gun.

Again, if he had seen it coming, Lorne would have been proud to sacrifice his life for anybody's. He tried his damnedest that night with the little bit of time that he had, he tried to take care of himself, he tried to take off his own shirt, he tried to take care of his own wounds out at the scene.

A good friend of ours helped him to get into the car to go to the hospital and I think that anybody else might not have been able to even do as well as he did.

He even was able to help a citizen with the wounds that he had, which were traumatic and would have been to anybody else right away at the scene, but for the fact that he was so big.

But man, he fought through it. He was a true warrior in every sense of the word.

COOPER: I mean, I think there's been this outpouring throughout the entire country and throughout the world, frankly, of people -- I don't know if it's amazed is the right word, but just moved by the actions of your husband and all the other officers that night.

AHRENS: There are certain people that can do this job. A lot of people try. A lot of people want to and they never can. But very few can do it and be as good at it as my husband. He was here because it was where he was supposed to be.

COOPER: It's where he wanted to be.

[20:55:02] AHRENS: If he hadn't been there that night, he would have been so upset. He would have been livid if that had happened and he wasn't there.

COOPER: Says about -- a lot about the kind of guy that he was.

AHRENS: It really does. He would have taken a bullet voluntarily for any of his other officers.

Again, if he would able to fight, he was able to see it coming and save one of their lives, save his partner, Krol, he would have done so in a minute without thinking about anything. That's just who he was.

COOPER: Well, I don't know how you get through the next few days and weeks and months, but I wish you strength and peace. And I hope you know there are a lot of people praying for you and thinking about you and Lorne and your kids and everybody else in the police family.

AHRENS: Thank you.

COOPER: Extraordinary loss for this country. Lorne's funeral is tomorrow. I think I saw it's Friday, it's actually tomorrow.

As I said, certainly, our thoughts and prayers are with him and the entire family and obviously, all those who are suffering in Dallas.

A lot more ahead in the next hour, "CNN Town Hall", Jake Tapper hosting live right there behind me. The guest is House Speaker Paul Ryan. America's highest ranking Republican taking questions from voters. It all gets underway, next. Stay tuned.