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Trump Meets with Mike Pence at Governor's Mansion; Alton Sterling's Teen Son Speaks to Media; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 13, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[10:00:28] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, I'm Ana Cabrera in for Carol Costello. Thank you for joining me as we begin with breaking news this morning.

In the race for the White House Donald Trump joining Indiana Governor Mike Pence at his home for breakfast this morning and he's accompanied by his children, Don Jr. and Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner we're learning. This meeting coming as speculation swirls around Trump's potential vice presidential pick. A short list that Pence is rumored to be part of. Now the two men teaming up at a rally in Indiana just last night. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: So we must come together and elect this good man as our next president. And we must elect this strong leader for one more reason. Because Hillary Clinton must never become president of the United States of America.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I often joke you'll be calling up Mike Pence. I don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president, who the hell knows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining me now, CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash and political reporter Sara Murray. They are outside Governor Pence's mansion there in Indianapolis. Also with me today CNN political director David Chalian.

I want to start with you, Dana and Sara, since you are there on the ground. What is the latest you are hearing?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, we are both here, we're both at the event last night, Ana, that you just played clips from, and this was a bit of a surprise to say the least. We've expected as of last night or at least earlier in the evening for Donald Trump to be returning or leaving Indiana, but he didn't, for lots of reasons. And one of them obviously was that he wanted to be here. We are outside Indiana Governor Mike Pence's residence. And you see those cars, those large vehicles behind us, it's because, as you said, Donald Trump is here as well. And Sara Murray, my colleague and a trepid reporter, is joining me.

And I want to just get a download from you because you've been getting incredible reporting from your sources.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donald Trump was supposed to leave. He decided to stay. He actually had dinner with the Pences last night and he's back here for breakfast this morning.

I was speaking to a Trump adviser who tells me he's not walking in there to make an offer to Mike Pence. He's still trying to get a better sense of what it would be like to spend four to eight years governing in with him. So his mind is not set. He wants to make sure that he's someone he could feel comfortable with. But he's also supposed to talk to New Jersey governor Chris Christie today. Two sources tell me they're supposed to be on a phone call later and the Trump adviser says, look, these are the final hours.

This is a chance for both guys to pitch themselves and say, here's what I'm better than the other ones. Here's what I bring to the table. And so we're all just still kind of waiting to see if Donald Trump goes with his head and what many members of his family wants him to do, which is go with Mike Pence, or if he goes with his gut, which is really Chris Christie, this guy who came out and endorsed him very early and who he's known for a decade.

BASH: That's right. And you know, I'm hearing from sources that it is no -- there's no question that Donald Trump is somebody, and he's actually said it explicitly in the last 24 to 48 hours, goes with his gut. It's gotten him this far. And Chris Christie has not only been a good friend to him but an incredibly invaluable adviser. Maybe in the way that people don't realize behind the scenes. He's kept a pretty low profile publicly but he has been in there, talking to them about management, talking to him about politics, talking to him about speeches, about communications.

And, you know, you can't underestimate something like that especially with somebody who's never done this before. I mean, few people in the world have ever run a general election campaign but doing it as Donald Trump is doing, never run any campaign in his life, is pretty unique. But having said that, he is here. And you know what, Sara, I'm struck by, you're talking about this -- Abigail Crutchfield, our producer, was talking about this as we were racing here this morning.

Remember when Reince Priebus, the RNC chair, tried to essentially get everybody during the primaries to sign pledges? Reince Priebus went to Donald Trump. Donald Trump is here on Mike Pence's turf.

MURRAY: Right.

BASH: And that might -- it's just -- I know he was already here in Indiana as an important state. But it also I think is a telling sign.

MURRAY: But it is -- it is telling. He didn't summon the governor to come meet him at his hotel. He said, I'm not only going to come here, I'm going to bring my family here. We're all going to meet, we're all going to have this discussion and try to get comfortable with one another. And that is a huge part of this. You guys are spending a lot of time together on the campaign trail in the short term but trying to govern together in the long term. And Trump has made it clear he wants a partner in governing. He want someone who can help him pass his legislative agenda.

[10:05:01] He doesn't want a VP that he's just going to park in an office somewhere and never speaks to. But in order to do that, you have to be really comfortable with him in person.

BASH: And, you know, yesterday I spent with Mike Pence a little bit. He was at an official governors' event in the afternoon. And the minute he started talking to myself and a group of reporters it was so obvious how much he clearly wants this job. Talking in Trump language about making America great, comparing him to Ronald Reagan. And then of course last night, at the event at his what is -- there's no question -- was an audition, doing that, but also going a step further to show that he's got the power and the punch to be aggressive, an attack dog, which is the traditional role of a running mate.

MURRAY: And I think that's one of the things that's been different and how Governor Christie has approached this. It sounds like he has not -- from sources that he has not been sort of lobbying as much for the VP slot behind the scenes but essentially saying, I will help you with whatever I can do but he's been invaluable on the campaign trail. He has defended Donald Trump in controversy after controversy, stood by him, been careful not to criticize him very publicly.

And he's got a lot of backlash for being one of the first guys to come out and say Donald Trump is going to be the nominee and it's time for us to get behind him. And that's not something that Trump forgets easily is this sense of loyalty.

BASH: And to that point, David Chalian, I'm going to bring you in here. The man who lives in residence, Mike Pence, who is meeting with Donald Trump as we speak, he has not been as loyal or as supportive publicly. He has very publicly broken with Donald Trump over the past weeks on very important issues that have been tough, tough issues for Donald Trump, black eyes for him really politically, on the whole controversy over the federal judge right here in Indiana, saying that he was Mexican, even though he is of course -- was of course born in the U.S.

He disagrees with Donald Trump on what has been a signature issue, which is the Muslim ban. Yesterday Mike Pence was telling us that we of course has disagreements with everybody and that's what we always hear from vice presidential running mates when they -- when they're eager to be picked. That, you know, there's no family in the world that doesn't have disagreements. But what do you make of that, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I remember those lines about -- from Sarah Palin on certain energy thing with John McCain. I remember Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney getting on the same page about that stuff -- that sort of stuff as well, Dana.

You're right, but I think the key point that Sara was talking just about that we should underscore here is this is the most unconventional politician any of us have ever covered and this whole notion of sort of gut versus head, I think that is where we are right now. Since you guys have reported, you know, no decision made yet. We are clearly in the window where he's getting so much advice from people that he does listen to closely. Whether his family or the closest advisers who all -- a lot of that world thinks that Mike Pence is the smart, safe politically astute pick for a whole host of reasons. The liaison to the establishment.

Any time a House or Senate Republican or a governor across the country is concerned about Donald Trump saying something off message at a rally, it's now OK, call Mike Pence, he has instant credibility with all these folks.

BASH: Exactly.

CHALIAN: In addition to having sort of the social conservative wing be on his side, that he can help try to get their turnout up. But then there's the gut, and you hear it in Donald Trump's comments in "Wall Street Journal." He wants this hand-to-hand combat, street brawl or somebody who can really take the fight. And Trump himself cited Christie and Gingrich when discussing that kind of character trait.

I think Pence, as you mentioned, way kind of putting that on display last night out there in Indiana a bit. But I do think that you can just see Trump right now wrestling with the head and the gut.

CABRERA: And Dana, let me ask you because you are working your sources there on the ground. Last night we were talking about Mike Pence and Newt Gingrich being the final two. Now we're hearing Chris Christie. And what I'm hearing from you both, just to clarify there, Sara and Dana, is that it sounds like now it's looking more like either Chris Christie or Mike Pence. So is Newt Gingrich out of the running, do you think at this point?

BASH: You know, the truth is, we don't know for sure. And Ana, I'm just going to let you know that Sara can't hear you because this is on the fly live breaking news reporting so I'm just going to say her question was a good one, which is last night we were talking about that it was Newt Gingrich and Mike Pence and then maybe Chris Christie was not as high on the list, so what about Newt Gingrich?

I mean, my answer to that is he's still very much could be out there. It's just that Donald Trump isn't here behind us, in the governor's mansion. And that I think because Chris Christie, in the kind of zeitgeist out there, had fallen off some people in Trump world are trying to get him back on the radar for various reasons.

[10:10:03] It doesn't necessarily mean that Newt Gingrich is out. Do you agree with that?

MURRAY: Right, and there are certain people who are downplaying Newt right now and this is the kind of jockeying that we would expect to see in the final hours of a VP pick. But I think when you get down to such a small number of candidates you really have to -- you have to wait until they make the announcement or until someone in the campaign says his mind is set. And what we're hearing right now is his mind is not set. He's talking to Pence today, he's talking to Chris Christie today. But it's pretty easy for him to add a conversation with Newt Gingrich today if he feels like he wants to do that.

So I think when you get to this really small pool, you have to be really careful about saying anyone is out the mix entirely.

BASH: That's exactly right, and, you know, Ana, I have been through this process several cycles. I know Sara was deeply involved in 2012. But this is -- you know, Donald Trump is not a conventional candidate. He is not a traditional candidate, but this is as traditional as it gets. You get down to the final minutes. You get down to the final hours. And -- any candidate understands how crucial this decision is.

But I do think that for Mitt Romney or John McCain or Barack Obama, people who had legislative or even elective experience at all, it's one thing. For Donald Trump, who has none, it's even more. I think it's probably the biggest decision for any presumptive nominee that we've seen in I don't know how long.

CABRERA: All right, Dana Bash, Sara Murray, keep us posted on what you learn there. Thank you so much.

David Chalian, stick around with me. I want to bring in our panel to discuss further. Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, Joseph Borelli, the co-chair of the Trump New York campaign, and Maria Cardona, a Clinton supporter and Democratic strategist as well.

Larry, I'll start with you. We are hearing that Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner or even Don Jr. are there at this breakfast meeting this morning. We know they've been very involved in the campaign. Is this a hint that maybe Pence is the leading candidate at the very least at this point?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: I'm going to give you a definitive answer, Ana, maybe. Look, there's one thing we've learned about Donald Trump, is that he's completely unpredictable. You know, in a way, I'm kind of reminded of Lyndon Johnson in 1964, filling his vice presidency. At least three people came to the Democratic National Convention thinking that they were the choice. Lyndon Johnson had led each one of them to think that he was going to be vice president. Hubert Humphrey ended up as VP.

So look, I don't -- I don't know what it means. Obviously, it means that he's looking at Pence very, very carefully. I'll tell you one thing, though, Pence, Gingrich, Christie, they all perform some of the same functions for Trump but none of them bring any electoral votes. I'm sorry, there's just aren't any there. New Jersey is not going Republican. Not a chance. Georgia is already going Republican in all likelihood and Indiana certainly is.

So we're not talking about electoral votes. We're talking about a vice presidential nominee who will be tough on Hillary Clinton, who will complement Donald Trump in leveling those attacks against Democrats. I think that's the main focus as well as having somebody who knows government, as Trump does not.

CABRERA: Right, but, David Chalian, you also talked about this experience factor, experience with government, as well as the ability to connect with the establishment Republicans that Donald Trump has had a hard time connecting with.

We did hear from one of those Republicans earlier this week, Pennsylvania Representative Charlie Dent, who actually said maybe Pence wouldn't be such a good pick because who's he going to bring into the party? He may only register with the base.

CHALIAN: Yes, again, I think this is -- a pick at this point for Donald Trump is less about bringing electoral votes or even shoring up a position of the party. I think Donald Trump is in -- within grasp of this election as recent polls have shown. This is a really competitive election. And so I think his pick and the role of the VP is all about -- the most important thing here, Ana, is about the reflection on him.

Does he pick a serious contender who can step into the job at a moment's notice if needed? Does he pick someone who helps his message to white working class voters out there, that are sort of the fuel of his campaign? That -- and I think any of these contenders who down to who can do that, I think it is much less about a specific state or one demographic to bring on board.

CABRERA: Yes.

CHALIAN: And much more about reflecting Donald Trump's decision- making ability.

CABRERA: Well, you talked so much about how important that chemistry also is for him.

Maria, on the flipside, you represent the Democrats. Clearly there's been a lot of speculation on Hillary Clinton's vice presidential pick. And we learned just yesterday that Elizabeth Warren, who's been rumored to be on her list, has been given a speaking slot at the Democratic convention.

[10:15:07] Having all of this play out before the Democratic convention and having Donald Trump likely make his pick first, do you think it will impact the choice she ends up making?

MARIA CARDONA, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: I don't think so. I think what Hillary Clinton will focus on what she has said is to have somebody as the VP, that she has great rapport with, that she has a good relationship with. But most importantly, somebody who can slip into this position if needed on the first day and not need any training. And so I think that is the most important pick. That I think is what the American people are looking at.

But I also think that whoever Hillary Clinton picks, whoever is on her short list, is going to be a huge contrast to the GOP ticket Donald Trump and the three folks that he is looking at, because what you have in the GOP ticket is a group of people, two people who are going to be completely out of touch with the American people in terms of what they're looking for from a commander-in-chief.

And you know, at the end of the day, voters do not vote for the vice president. So this is going to be a Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump ticket.

CABRERA: Right.

CARDONA: No matter who each one picks as their vice president. And in that contrast, Hillary Clinton will continue to underscore how incredibly unqualified, completely unprepared and wholly unfit to be president Donald Trump is. And that's going to be a contrast I think when all is said and done she's going to be able to win in November.

CABRERA: Joseph, is it going to matter who Donald Trump picks as his VP?

JOSEPH BORELLI, CO-CHAIR, DONALD TRUMP NY CAMPAIGN: Yes, I think it does. I hate to say I agree with Maria in some respects but I think it will be primarily a race between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. That said, if someone wants to talk about being out of touch, look at the recent poll numbers that came out this morning and this week, where we see independents breaking towards Donald Trump, and especially in swing states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida.

These are states where if Trump wins, he wins the presidency. I think each of the three finalists have somewhat of a unique characteristic to offer Donald Trump but the one thing that's been completely consistent is that he's not picking a vice president based on whoever checks a certain racial demographic or geographic boxes.

I think he wants someone who will be a teammate. And that's what we've seen as this sort of contest between these final three in the past few days. Who is going to really be Donald Trump's teammate? Chris Christie out of all of his former rivals has probably been in his camp the longest, loudest and strongest, but we see both Newt Gingrich and Mike Pence really emerging as attack dogs.

You know, anyone could talk about how Hillary Clinton lies and the scandals that followed her and her husband for decades, I think Newt certainly brings some gravitas to that that maybe Mike Pence can't. But on the flipside, Mike Pence does come from a rust belt state and we do know that, you know, essentially that Trump campaign is targeting those.

CABRERA: And you mentioned those poll numbers, we just showed those to our viewers. We'll end on those numbers because, David Chalian, Hillary Clinton is losing ground in those three key swing states, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. In fact when you add in this third party candidates, the Green Party, Libertarian candidates, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, Trump has an even larger lead in some of these polls. How telling is that this early in the game?

CHALIAN: Right. So first, we just take a look here. Pennsylvania and Ohio are the same as they were the last month when the Quinnipiac poll --

CABRERA: There very close.

CHALIAN: Nothing really changed. They're really close. She's not losing ground or gaining ground in any way. Florida in this poll is very different.

CABRERA: Was a flip.

CHALIAN: Very different than it was previously. And we'll have -- we need more polls out of Florida to see if this is an outlier or not. But to me, you look at the three in totality. In these three critical states, and what you have is a really close race. There's a close battle going on here. And we're going to start paying less and less attention to national polls, which are instructive about certain things but not the horse race necessarily, because the battle for 270 electoral votes takes place in these critical states. And we see that it is a very close contest.

What I will say also, though, is what is amazing that we've seen is that Hillary Clinton and her allies are spending a ton of money on television. And that doesn't seem to be moving the needle or opening up some lead for her compared to Donald Trump. I think in the battleground states, it's like 40-1 she's outspending him right now. So you have to begin to wonder, are television ads where all that money goes having the impact that they once had in presidential elections.

CABRERA: Interesting.

CHALIAN: Is that another thing that is so different this cycle and will the campaigns adjust in some way?

CABRERA: Everything just seems so unpredictable this cycle which makes it very exciting for all of us, right, to talk about it.

David Chalian, Maria Cardona, Larry Sabato, and Joseph Borelli, thank you all for joining us for that conversation.

Still to come, his father died in the scuffle with police. One week after he broke down in sobs, this teenager there on the left, speaking up.

[10:20:06] He has a powerful message and he shared with all of us here live. We're going to play it for you in case you didn't get it and talk about more about the situation of race and policing in America when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The national dialogue over the police killings of African- American men gets painfully personal. Just minutes ago, we heard from Cameron Sterling, the 15-year-old son of the Baton Rouge man who was shot to death by officers last week. The teen stood out by the Baton Rouge convenience store where his dad Alton Sterling died.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is there now with more -- Polo. POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ana. Good morning.

You know, obviously the shooting death of Alton Sterling has created this deep divide not just here in Baton Rouge but throughout the country, so obviously there is this debate that continues.

[10:25:07] But regardless of where you are, what side you may be on in this debate, it's very difficult to -- we have to at least recognize this level of grace and also courage of a young man that, the reality is, will not see his father yet again. He stood on the very spot where his father was shot and killed last week. And rather than focus on anger and this call for justice, his main theme of what he spoke to is unity, as you're about to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON STERLING, SON OF ALTON STERLING: I want to thank you very much for supporting us. And another thing, the protesting. I feel that everyone -- yes, you can protest. But I want everyone to protest the right way. Protest in peace, not guns, not drugs, not alcohol, not violence. Everyone needs to protest in the right way. With peace. No violence. None whatsoever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Just hearing from his son, 15-year-old Cameron Sterling who again was focusing more on this call for unity, on this call for peace, and also went on to describe his father as, quote, "a good man," as he continued to ask the country to essentially come together.

And obviously we are also hearing from the family's attorneys, especially after we continue to hear reports, and as several people have brought up Mr. Sterling's criminal past as possibly being a factor in what happened here last week.

I want you to hear directly from attorney L. Chris Stewart who basically dismissed what is the past of Mr. Sterling and wants to focus, rather, on what took in this parking lot as this investigation presses on, as the federal -- as the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division continues to weigh in on this investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. CHRIS STEWART, STERLING FAMILY ATTORNEY: I think the more that is reported on, it shows how strong our case is that he was murdered. Because the way that you have to make the world not care is to make him look like he's someone that's not worth caring about but we're not believing that. We know that charges eight years ago or seven years ago have nothing to do with what happened. The videotape speaks for itself. So they can assassinate his character again but it strengthens his case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: And, again, you're hearing from the Sterling family attorney there, Ana, basically saying that whatever happened before last week should not be relevant in determining whether or not that deadly use of force was justifiable, Ana.

CABRERA: All right, Polo Sandoval there in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, for us. Thank you very much.

We have some breaking news right now. Want to take you back to Indiana. We understand Donald Trump and his family are just leaving the Governor's Mansion there after he met with Governor Pence this morning who -- there you see him, both men together. Almost like they stopped just for the cameras to catch that shot of them. This is moments ago. We're doing a tape turn here. And you can see that there are family members with Trump there as well.

We understand Ivanka was part of that conversation, her husband, Jared Kushner, also Don Jr.

Let's bring in Dana Bash who is on the ground there. What can you tell us, Dana?

BASH: Hey, Ana. I'm actually watching the people you just talked about get in the car, including, as you said, the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump, but also his family, his adult children, his daughter Ivanka, his son-in-law Jared Kushner who has been playing a very, very senior key role in the campaign of late, and his sons Eric and Donald Jr., all here, all finishing breakfast and getting into the Trump motorcade to leave here.

Now this was, as we've been reporting -- I don't know if you can see, that's the Pences. Governor Pence and his wife Karen.

CABRERA: Yes. Waving good-bye.

BASH: Waving good-bye. Knowing that we all have our cameras at the sidewalks trying to get the shot through the trees.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: So there you have the end to clearly what has been a pretty dramatic and suspense-filled morning here at the governor's residence in Indiana.

This was something that was not planned. This was actually not even supposed to happen because Donald Trump wasn't even supposed to be Indiana this morning. He was supposed to leave last night but decided to stay.

Our Sara Murray has been reporting that the two men had dinner last night and now this morning they had what seems to be a pretty lengthy breakfast with Governor Pence and his wife, and the fact that his -- that Donald Trump's adult children, who we know have been so influential in his decisions, so influential in his campaign, and helping him make key choices, that they were here is incredibly telling.

There is no question that Governor Pence is on the shortest of short lists right now. And there's also no question based on the audition that he had at a rally here in Indiana last night. And I'm going to actually pop in front of the camera right now because now we don't have a shot that I can block.