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Brexit Ends David Cameron's Six Years in Power; Trump Calls for Chief Justice Ginsburg to Resign; Train Crash in Italy Kills 23; May Expected to Name Women to Cabinet. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired July 13, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST (voice-over): Hi, there, everyone. Welcome. I'm Robyn Curnow at the CNN Center.
We start with Britain's stunning leadership change. David Cameron is just hours away from stepping aside as prime minister for Theresa May. The
looming handover will cap a whirlwind three weeks in U.K. politics.
Mr. Cameron goes from leading one of the world's most powerful nations to a back bench MP after he gambled and lost on the Brexit vote. He took to the
podium in Parliament for his final prime minister's question time. The session ended with words of wisdom from the outgoing PM and a standing
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, FORMER PRIME MINISTER, GREAT BRITAIN: I will miss the roar of the crowd. I will miss the barbs from the opposition but I will be
willing you on. And when I say willing you on, I don't just mean willing on the new prime minister at this dispatch box or, indeed, just willing on
the front bench, defending the manifesto that I helped to put together but I mean willing all of you on because people come here with huge passion for
the issues they care about.
They come here with great love for the constituencies that they represent.
And also willing on this place because, yes, we can be pretty tough and test and challenge our leaders, perhaps more than some other countries.
But that is something we should be proud of and we should keep at it.
And I hope you will all keep at it and I will you on as you do.
The last thing I'd say is that you can achieve a lot of things in politics. You can get a lot of things done. And that, in the end, the public
service, the national interest, that is what it's all about. Nothing is really impossible if you put your mind to it. After all, as I once said, I
was the future once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Well, Max Foster is outside 10 Downing Street, where Mr. Cameron is packing up. And Theresa May will face the monumental task of guiding
the U.K. through Brexit.
Hi, there, Max. That PM queue was more good-humored than gladiatorial.
Do you think there's a sense of relief for Mr. Cameron?
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: I think definitely. Now he's come to terms with the fact that he's on the way out and that he lost that referendum and he's
going to be defined by Brexit, I think he is quite relieved. He's still very young; he's only 49. He has got a whole career ahead of him. I think
he's just trying to enjoy today.
I saw him come out Downing Street earlier and he literally skipped into his car with a big smile on his face. So certainly, he's going to be enjoying
the rest of the day. He'd also joked that he had a very light diary today, literally just an appointment with the queen, which is of course when he
resigns as prime minister.
We expect that to happen in just a couple of hours' time. His time in power has come to a very swift end, much more swift than anyone expected,
leaving behind an eventful six years that may well have defined him.
From that last couple of weeks, really, that big political gamble that just didn't work out for him.
FOSTER (voice-over): David Cameron's promise of a referendum, ultimately the death knell of his leadership. The argument over Britain's place in
Europe bringing his time at 10 Downing Street to a dramatic end.
When Cameron first took office in 2010, it was against an unfamiliar backdrop, a coalition government for the first time in generations.
CAMERON: We are announcing a new politics.
FOSTER (voice-over): In this new era, Cameron oversaw the country's gradual economic recovery, a shrinking budget deficit and a record number
of jobs created, although the process of austerity was painful for some.
Cameron maintained Britain's special relationship with America, joined the international coalition against ISIS and welcomed the world for a highly
successful London 2012 Olympics.
When it came to re-election last year, even Cameron was taken by surprise when he won a majority. But that win came at a cost. Pressure from an
increasingly disgruntled group of eurosceptic MPs within Cameron's own party forced him to make a pledge.
CAMERON: Yes, we will deliver that in-out referendum on our future in Europe.
FOSTER (voice-over): The Europe issue has divided Cameron's Conservative Party for decades.
CAMERON: I am not a British isolationist but I do want a better deal for Britain.
FOSTER (voice-over): In February, he went to Brussels to renegotiate Britain's position in Europe. He declared it a success --
FOSTER: -- but his critics, including high-profile members of his own cabinet, said little had changed.
BORIS JOHNSON, FORMER MAYOR OF LONDON: Explain to the House and to the country exactly what way this deal returns sovereignty over any field of
FOSTER (voice-over): Having failed to convince even some of his closest political allies, Cameron's position going into the referendum was
vulnerable. And after the ballots were counted, Britain had voted to leave the E.U. and the PM fell on his sword.
CAMERON: We should aim to have a new prime minister in place by the start of the Conservative Party conference in October. Delivering stability will
FOSTER (voice-over): After days of political bloodshed to name his successor, a fellow Remain campaigner, Theresa May, outlasted the others,
forcing Cameron's hand one last time.
CAMERON: I will attend the House of Commons for prime minister's questions and then, after that, I expect to go to the palace and offer my
resignation. So we'll have a new prime minister in that building behind me by Wednesday evening. Thank you very much.
FOSTER (voice-over): A hasty exit for a prime minister who dared to tackle the European question and lost.
FOSTER: In short order, David Cameron will be leaving the address that has been his home base for the past six years. His successor, Theresa May,
will be moving in. She becomes Britain's second female prime minister. Her first order of business presiding over Brexit, of course.
CNN political contributor Robin Oakley joins me here at 10 Downing Street.
A bit of backseat driving as well, perhaps, in his speech, when he said Britain should stay close to Europe.
It's up to her now, isn't it?
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's clearly been his aim all along. And I suspect it's probably Theresa May's aim, too, in the
sense that she'll want a close trading relationship. But she's not prepared to concede in order to get that, not prepared to concede on the
free movement of people.
FOSTER: In terms of the process that happens from here, effectively he loses all control, she takes complete control. She's going to need a
cabinet around her.
Can she announce all of that today?
OAKLEY: (INAUDIBLE) and David Cameron has been in a strange position ever since that referendum when he had announced that he was going to resign.
He's been in office but not in power, he's not been making decisions, he's not been running the show. He said all the big decisions were awaiting his
So Theresa May will now be in charge of all the big decisions. We'll expect her to announce certainly the three or four top positions in her
government, perhaps even the whole cabinet tonight.
But there are 100 or so appointments to govern to be made and she's had to do all this in a rush. Everybody expected the Conservative leadership
contest to go on for nine weeks and a result on September the 9th until a couple of days ago.
So she's really had to telescope the whole process. And I don't think we can expect the whole thing tonight.
FOSTER: The real pressure as well, it's like a chess game, isn't it. She has got to think about her own allegiances, she's also got to try to bring
the party together by bringing in Brexiters. And she's also got this personal ambition of bringing more women into the cabinet as well, so very,
OAKLEY: The nonsense of this is that the whole thing, David Cameron launched this referendum, a huge political gamble, in an effort to stop the
endless arguments going on within his Conservative Party about Britain's relationship with Europe.
But what we've got now is those divisions on Europe are just as strong as they ever were in the party. And every decision that Theresa May makes,
particularly in appointing her cabinet now, is going to be seen through that prism of was he a Brexiteer or was he somebody who wanted to remain in
the European Union.
FOSTER: One thing on her side, your position's collapsing.
OAKLEY: Well, indeed. Jeremy Corbyn, opposition leader, vote of no confidence, 170 MPs desert him at Westminster. He has got a challenger;
he's got two challengers now, coming up to take him on for the leadership. That may actually help Jeremy Corbyn because it may split the anti-Corbyn
vote, as it were.
But it will go out to the Labour activists and the constituencies, a decision perhaps in September. And Jeremy Corbyn had 60 percent of those
activists with him last September.
He believes he can still win their support and that they'll take a totally different view to the MPs at Westminster. So if he comes back with the
support of the activists, we may well see the Labour Party at Westminster split altogether.
FOSTER: It's an extraordinary moment of British politics. And it does help that she doesn't have that strong opposition in Parliament but it will
all fall in the road behind us. We'll have speeches from David Cameron on the way out and also Theresa May on the way in.
So we'll get a real sense of the next phase, Robin, in British policy and it's a very important stage. Obviously Britain a big player in Europe and
it's extricating from Europe, so it has a truly has a continental impact.
CURNOW: There will also be a series of choreographed events --
CURNOW: -- as these two people make their way in and out of 10 Downing Street behind you, Max, and we'll keep on coming back to you and Robin
Oakley throughout the day.
And we must not forget that today is also not without its royal presence. David Cameron and Theresa May will both have audiences with Queen Elizabeth
II. Now 12 prime ministers have served the queen during her six decades on the throne, going all the way back to Winston Churchill.
Theresa May will become the 13th and the second woman to hold that post just hours from now.
Kate Williams, our royal commentator, joins us now from our London bureau.
And I spoke about a choreographed state of affairs that's going to take place. Both of these people will have to go and have an audience with the
queen. Just take us through what is expected.
KATE WILLIAMS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, it's a very official part of ceremony here. Officially we simply don't have a prime minister and a
government until the prime minister has met with the queen.
So although David Cameron did resign two weeks ago, just after he understood the result of the referendum, he hasn't officially resigned
until he goes to see Her Majesty, tenders his resignation and he also can't resign until he can tell her who will take over for him, who to call to ask
to form a government.
So what will happen today is the queen has left in a helicopter, she's left Norfolk, this morning she was seeing Prince William's ambulance base.
She's left in a helicopter, come back to Buckingham Palace from Norfolk from Sandringham. And she'll meet first at 5 o'clock she'll meet David
Cameron in the white drawing room, beautiful drawing room in Buckingham Palace, often used for photos.
And he'll probably leave about 5:20, 5:30, so it's in-out, really. And 5:30 Theresa May will arrive and the queen will invite her to form a
government and they will do what is called as kissing hands. That's the official terminology but that actually means a handshake.
CURNOW: Involves a handshake. As we were saying the queen has shaken hands with a number of former prime ministers during her decades as the
reigning monarch. Just tell us about her relationship.
What do we know about her relationship with people like Winston Churchill, for example?
WILLIAMS: Yes, Winston Churchill, her first prime minister, initially he felt that she was too young. He missed her father, George VI. But he was
very quickly won over by her. He said no movie star could have done the role better.
And the queen, she sees these often Wednesday meetings every week with the prime minister as a key part of her role. She's here to advise, to
counsel, to warn. She often does it that in forms of questions. She'll ask questions and she often asks very searching questions.
So although a lot prime ministers say how much they enjoy the experience because no one is going to leak it and the queen isn't going to try and
backstab you for your job in a world of politics where you often being -- you've -- there could be treachery.
But at the same time you have to be on your toes because she's researched, she's interested and she's asks very, very searching questions. So
although there will be pleasantries today with Ms. May, she can also expect to be asked some pretty searching questions on the union and on
Brexit and on the plan for the way forward.
But I do expect there to be a good relationship between Ms. May and the queen. Ms. May is cautious, she's punctual, she's well-organized she's
well and efficient and does have planning all kinds of things that the queen really likes.
CURNOW: And, of course, the queen is 90 years old. She's been on the throne since 1952. Since then, she's been receiving state papers. If
anybody knows what has going on, it's the queen in the last few decades.
Do we know what her relationship was like with Margaret Thatcher?
Obviously this is a big day, because this is going to be the second female prime minister.
What about the first?
WILLIAMS: Well, the first prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, of course, 1979 was our last female prime minister in this country. Margaret Thatcher
and the queen had a slightly sticky relationship initially.
Certainly the queen sometimes felt that Margaret Thatcher was telling her rather than asking her, that she was being rather lectured by Ms. Thatcher.
But there was a lot of respect between them.
Certainly Ms. Thatcher was punctual and she was always well-informed, which the queen does value. But also the queen often likes to take the opposite
point of view to the prime minister, just to put the opposite point of view.
So Ms. Thatcher, she did say of the queen, she's the sort of woman to vote SDP, which, in those days, meant a sort of woody, middle-of-the-road
liberal, which to Ms. Thatcher nothing could possibly be worse. But they did -- there was -- there's an amusing occasion when Ms. Thatcher went to
stay in Balmoral with the queen and the two ladies, the queen and Ms. Thatcher, had a slight battle over who would go do the washing up.
CURNOW: I think this is going to be some very fascinating times. Because of course, the queen has seen the world change just so much. And
throughout all of it, she has at least publicly remained politically neutral.
How does that help these prime ministers?
WILLIAMS: Well, yes, David Cameron said that he enjoyed his meetings with the queen because she's seen it all before him. I'm not quite sure that
she's seen Brexit before and --
WILLIAMS: -- what the possible changing of the union but certainly she has been here. She was born in 1926. She experienced Second World War, she
saw the E.U. just beginning. She has seen, as you say, Robyn, Britain change and Europe change and the world change -- globalization, global
When she came to the throne, the majority of people in Britain were manual laborers, had never been traveling abroad. We had a not a very
multicultured society and we didn't have televisions or many cars or even many fridges.
The world has completely transformed into a globalized consumer society and the British Empire, which still had power when she came to the throne in
'52, is no more. So the queen has weathered it all. And she has been, as you say, her incredible, amazing strength has been her political
We have no idea what the queen thinks about all the many vicissitudes she's seen through her reign, the many changes, the many wars, the many political
decisions. And that I think is of great benefit to the country, great benefit to British diplomatic standing because if the queen, say, for
example, in The Troubles in Ireland in the '70s, the queen stayed neutral and that meant that she could really facilitate the new marriage of
friendship between Britain and Ireland in 2011 when she went to Dublin.
So the neutrality is vital in a diplomatic sense but it's also vital because it's seems to the prime ministers and to the government and to the
people, she doesn't take sides, she doesn't interfere, she is here to counsel but not to tell. No matter how much she probably might think to
herself she might know a little bit better than the people running the country, it is all to be kept to herself.
And that I think is her great strength and it really has raised the bar for whoever comes after her.
CURNOW: Yes, indeed. And this whole episode, the tumultuous times have been called for now, the reason Theresa May is there, is that she's been
promising certainty and a lot more stability. And of course, the queen, throughout all of this, has been just that. Thanks so much.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
CURNOW: Coming up, just as U.S. Republicans are rolling out the red carpet for Donald Trump at their convention, a Supreme Court justice is stepping
into the ring. We'll take you to the front lines of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's fight with Donald Trump.
CURNOW: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. It's 19 minutes past the hour. I'm Robyn Curnow.
And U.S. Supreme Court justices generally like to keep their robes out of the muck of campaign politics. But this year, don't count on tradition. A
highly respected justice is blasting Donald Trump.
In a CNN interview, Ruth Bader Ginsburg calls him "a faker." Our Sara Murray reports, Trump isn't taking that very lightly.
SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump intensifying his battle with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Trump now calling on Ginsburg to step
down, tweeting early this morning that Justice Ginsburg "embarrassed all by --"
MURRAY (voice-over): "-- making very dumb political statements about me. Her mind is shot -- resign."
In an interview with CNN, Justice Ginsburg blasted Trump as a "faker" who "really has an ego."
House Speaker Paul Ryan addressing the controversy in a CNN town hall last night.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think it's out of place for an appointed branch of government. That shows bias to me.
MURRAY: Meanwhile, Trump playing to the hometown crowd last night, coyly hinting Indiana Governor Mike Pence might get the V.P. nod.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president. Who the hell knows?
MURRAY: As Trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick is coming this week. And Pence is aiming to prove his
prowess on the campaign trail.
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.
MURRAY: The vice-presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail, a string of
shootings claiming police and civilians alike.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: These tragedies tear at our soul.
MURRAY: Clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias.
CLINTON: Get law enforcement the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. The tragedy of black men and women and black children being
killed in police incidents. MURRAY: While Trump says he stands unequivocally on the side of police.
TRUMP: The hostility against our police has to end.
MURRAY: Trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity with the shooter, who killed
five police officers in Dallas.
TRUMP: The other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. Marches all over the United States and tough marches,
anger, hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him, for the killer.
CURNOW: Thanks to Sara for that report.
Now there are questions but still no definitive answers about what caused two trains to collide in Southern Italy. At least 27 people were killed in
Tuesday's crash. An Italian prosecutor says human error is likely to blame. A manslaughter investigation has been opened but no one has been
Our Will Ripley join us now from the crash site.
Hi, there, Will. Just describe for us what you're seeing.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of witnesses have been comparing this to a plane crash, Robyn, because these two planes were heading
directly at each other at around 100 kilometers an hour, that's more than 60 miles per hour. They obviously had little notice before the collision
So the speed caused the cars, that you can see behind me, to be just obliterated. They've managed to pull the last two remaining cars that were
intact, these are the cars at the back of the train, off the tracks. But here this morning they discovered more human remains. There is a piece of,
I guess you could call it good news, that has just come out within the last minutes. The official death toll has been actually revised downward.
They were saying 27 people killed. Now they're saying that number is 23. The reason for the confusion -- and it's really difficult to even think
about -- but it is just the condition of the bodies that they found they weren't able to sort out. They thought there were more bodies than it
turns out there actually were as they start the identification process.
Over at the hospital in Bari about 20 minutes from here, it has just been a heartbreaking scene throughout the day today. Here in Southern Italy, of
course, Italian families are big as it is, they're close. But here in Southern Italy, especially so. A lot of kids live at home with their
parents. So at the morgue, there were grandparents, there were aunts, there were cousins.
And those were the people who were able to speak because some of the closer family members that had to go in and identify people who were killed were
so distraught some of them actually needed medical care. And you heard people wailing and sobbing.
This whole crash, they're looking at human error as the potential cause here. This particular section of track relies on a pretty antiquated
system, where one conductor has to call on the phone to another location to give the trains clearance to pass.
And, in this case, obviously, two trains were sent on a collision course and apparently the passengers, certainly in those front cars, didn't have a
chance. There was one, a mother --
RIPLEY (voice-over): -- hugging her child, her young child. They were recovered, both of them were killed. So she had enough time, Robyn, to
hold onto her child before it happened but very little warning and no chance of survival for those people in the front cars.
CURNOW: Thanks so much, Will Ripley there on the scene, appreciate it.
Back to our top story, it is a historic day in the U.K. David Cameron resigns, Theresa May will soon be the prime minister. I want to take us
straight back to 10 Downing Street, where we find Max Foster.
Hi, there, Max.
FOSTER: Hi, Robyn.
One question we've got really now is what's this new era in British politics going to look like?
This is a very unsettled time economically, politically speaking here in the U.K. and in Europe.
So what will Theresa May do with her new leadership?
She's going to Downing Street tomorrow. She's in control in just a few hours' time. Chris Grayling is as close as you can get to her now. He
steered a successful leadership bid to run the Conservative Party, pressed for the U.K.'s departure from the E.U. as well. He is considered a
contender for a big job in the new government. Chris Grayling joins us now from Abingdon Green near Parliament.
Congratulations on your role.
So what is it?
CHRIS GRAYLING, BRITISH MP: Well, thank you. It's very good to have got Theresa into Downing Street or will do shortly. I think it's really
importantly that we had a quick change of leadership. I'm very grateful to Andrea Leadsom, who is the candidate who withdrew earlier this week. I
think she put her interests second to those of the nation.
We can now make a quick change. We can now have firm new leadership through the United Kingdom. And I think we can start to really address
both the challenges we face and the opportunities we have for the future.
FOSTER: You are obviously not going to tell me if you did know what position you got. You'll leave that to the prime minister, of course, when
she comes in tonight.
But she does need to balance the cabinet, doesn't she, to have members on your side of the campaign going into all of this?
GRAYLING: Well, no doubt she's going to be sure of having a balanced ticket. But she's been very clear that she hasn't done any deals, hasn't
offered people jobs in advance. When I signed up to chair her campaign, I didn't ask her to offer me a job. Indeed, I would have been very doubtful
about her credentials if she had offered me and others a job.
What you want is a prime minister who will pick the best team for the job when they're in office. You don't want them to have tied up their
commitments in advance.
Theresa's not done any deals. She's very well placed to form the right government for this country.
CURNOW: Mr. Grayling, it's Robyn Curnow here in Atlanta.
I just wanted to ask you, what kind of difficulties will the new prime minister face, particularly in terms of party unity?
GRAYLING: Well, I think what's interesting is that I'm pretty confident the Conservative Party will unite. Indeed, it's already uniting behind
her. The thing about us as a party is that we're very committed to what we believe in, we get on well as a team.
Yes, we have our divisions and discussions; we had a few of those in the last few months. But I'm absolutely confident that the Conservative Party
will unite behind Theresa May. We've got a big job to do and for those who follow U.K. politics and have seen the state of our opposition, actually
we've got a real duty to the country to make sure we're in good shape in government because right now there's nothing like an viable alternative
CURNOW: What kind of negotiator is she?
GRAYLING: She's a very firm negotiator, she's a very robust negotiator, she's a very decent woman, she's a very thoughtful woman. But as U.S.
administration knows when she dealt with the issue of the extradition of Gary Mackinnon, that did not happen; when she dealt with the extradition --
which did happen -- of Abu Qatada (ph) to Jordan, she is a firm and robust negotiator.
She's somebody, though, I think, the international community will find they can really do business with. Yes, she'll fight in her corner for the
United Kingdom. You'd expect that anyway. But she'll also be a constructive and collaborative partner in international matters.
CURNOW: And what kind of a woman is she?
What kind of a leader do you think she'll be, what kind of a prime minister will she be?
GRAYLING: I think she'll be a very effective prime minister, she'll provide strong leadership, which is absolutely what this country needs at
this moment in time. But she's also a very decent and thoughtful woman, she's very passionate about the one-nation agenda that we were elected on
last year, that she'll bring fresh ideas to.
She's a person who believes in an inclusive country, somebody who believes that we shouldn't have individuals and communities left behind.
CURNOW: So is she going to be -- go slightly more Left?
The social justice agenda that she was kind of hinting at in her speech in the last few days, is that also going to be a priority?
GRAYLING: Well, I think it will be. And it will build on what we've done over the last six years. One of the things I'm proudest of that we've
achieved as a government in the last six years is that we've seen a huge drop in the number of children growing up in workless households. That
will make a real difference to them, their families and their communities.
Theresa is going to want to do more of that. She's got new ideas, fresh ideas about making sure that people aren't left behind so they have good
life chances, that we're an inclusive society.
CURNOW: Do you know who will be on her --
CURNOW: -- cabinet?
Have you had this conversation with her?
What is a priority for her?
I know there's been some reports that she wants to include far more women in the cabinet.
GRAYLING: I haven't -- and there's been lots of speculation -- but I can tell you one thing about her: she will have kept the details of her
cabinet close to her chest. So all the speculation around, I think people are going to have to wait to see the reality later.
CURNOW: Chris Grayling, thank you so much, appreciate your perspective.
GRAYLING: You're very welcome.
CURNOW: You're watching CNN. Much more news coming up. Stay with us.
CURNOW: It is a busy news day today. Hello, everyone. I'm Robyn Curnow at the CNN Center. And we're talking Britain, where David Cameron is now
signing off on his last duties as prime minister.
In just a few hours, Theresa May takes up his job, a herculean to-do list. She'll be expected to boost the economy, to negotiate Britain's exit from
the E.U. and heal a divided nation.
Well, on this historic day, let's go to 10 Downing Street. Our Max Foster is standing by, getting a sense of the atmosphere.
Hi, there, Max.
FOSTER: Hi, Robyn. You were just getting the inside track there from Chris Grayling. He's very close to Theresa May. He's going to get a big
job from her, I'm sure, when the cabinet is announced later on today.
But the other perspective to all of this, of course, is from perhaps Brussels and the rest of the world and they're all waiting for a new
leader, whoever it is, just so they can stop talking to Downing Street about how Britain does move forward when it's no longer part of the
European Union, how it even comes out of the European Union. And our Nic Robertson is over in Parliament. He's the expert on all of this.
So when the likes of Angela Merkel look at events unfold today, Nic, they're just planning on how they're going to have a conversation tomorrow
about the next steps, aren't they?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: They'll be a little bit too eager, from everything that we've heard so far, if they're thinking
they'll get a conversation tomorrow. Certainly there'll perhaps be calls just to welcome her to office.
But what Theresa May has outlined earlier, when she initially announced her candidacy to become prime minister, she said that she was absolutely
affirmed that Brexit meant Brexit and she was going to go ahead with it.
But she did say that triggering those talks, through triggering Article 50, she said that may wait until the beginning of the new year. Now, albeit,
when she entered the race to become prime minister, the expectation was she wouldn't get that or somebody wouldn't take that position until the
beginning of September.
ROBERTSON: We're now pretty much the beginning of the early part of July, at least. So perhaps her window moves two months further forward but what
she'll be considering here is making sure before she begins to trigger those talks, as they get underway, that she fully understands what can be
best achieved, what it is precisely that Britain wants out of these negotiations.
For that, she's going to have to take advice, she's going to have to listen to advice from experts. She will have appointed by then a Brexit minister,
who will be consulting with experts.
There's a process that's going to be in place, that's going to take some time. How much time, we don't know. But what we do know about Theresa May
is that typically she's cautious. Typically she wants to make sure that all the details are in hand, that she herself fully understands all those
details as prime minister.
She will be delegating more than perhaps she needed to do as home secretary. However, she's not somebody who has a track record of rushing
into decisions. And I think that's where she's prepared everyone for, despite the fact that there are many leaders in the European Union who
would like to see this happen very, very quickly.
Angela Merkel has been one of those voices, however, who has said, despite the fact that the various of her ministers have said that Europe should
move ahead quickly, Angela Merkel herself has said this is something that we should allow a little bit of time for -- Max.
FOSTER: Thank you very much, indeed. (INAUDIBLE) government, the European counterparts have got somebody to contend with. Robyn, Nic, thank you very
much indeed. Robyn, I'm going to hand back to you now at CNN Center.
CURNOW: Indeed, thanks so much. And I know we've seen the pictures of the moving trucks there at 10 Downing Street.
I think it's a pretty frantic move, three children, all with 48 hours' notice. I think the Camerons have been rather busy packing up. And we'll
keep an eye on that as well as these monumental political shifts that are happening.
You're watching the IDESK and of course the clock is ticking down until David Cameron's tenure as British prime minister ends. We do want to look
at his legacy in office, the successes and the failures. Stay with us for that.
CURNOW: 10 Downing Street: have a look at those pictures of 10 Downing Street, a huge media scrum, a monumental day in British politics as we are
going to see the outgoing prime minister leave within the next few hours, go to Buckingham Palace.
And then the incoming prime minister also getting an invitation and audience with the queen. It is going to be a very important day in terms
of where Theresa May takes the direction of Britain.
But I think it's also important to stop and reflect on David Cameron and his career. I mean, he took his last questions --
CURNOW: -- last questions for the last time from members of parliament and he kind of touted his accomplishments in Parliament. He got a standing
ovation that was very jovial in many respects.
Joining me from our London bureau to discuss the Cameron legacy is economist Rupert Harrison. He's also the former chief of staff to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne.
Hi, there, Rupert. You spent a lot of time, in fact, sitting in meetings, having conversations with this outgoing prime minister.
What do you think will be his legacy?
RUPERT HARRISON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Well, hi, there, I think it's inescapable in a way that the referendum, the
calling the referendum and the result of the referendum will be first and foremost in people's minds when they think of David Cameron for many years.
But I think it would be a shame if that was the only thing that people remember. I think if you look back as he highlighted in Parliament today
and indeed as many of the other MPs paid tribute to, on the economy, he actually has an amazing legacy to leave behind.
He inherited in 2010 one of the darkest periods for the British economy since the Second World War. We had an enormous budget deficit, a very
fragile banking system, we had a European sovereign debt crisis erupting on our doorstep.
And in the five years after that, in particular, we saw the deficit come down at the same time as the economy grew at the same rate as the U.S.
economy. We had unemployment down to near record lows, we had a record high unemployment rate.
So it's a pretty impressive economic legacy. I think the issue is, right now, we don't know what's going to happen to the economy over the next
year, given the uncertainty that's been created by the outcome of the referendum.
CURNOW: So he'll be defined by this political decision, a gamble.
Was it just a very bad mistake or do you think he got himself into a corner?
HARRISON: I think -- in a way I think it was inevitable. I think he personally actually believed in it very much. And I think we saw that
again in what he said today. He felt not only was this referendum necessary politically but also that the British people deserved a
I think he felt that they had been promised a referendum, not just by Tony Blair but by other political leaders. And as you said today, this issue
needed to be confronted. You know, the British people, as we found out, have a pretty troubled relationship with the European Union; the European
Union was changing.
The Eurozone countries were integrating further, which raises some pretty profound questions for the U.K. in or out of the E.U. So I think he felt
as a matter of principle, that the referendum was the right thing to do.
CURNOW: The right thing to do; Brexit, of course, overwhelming in terms of looking back at his time in 10 Downing Street.
What would you say were the big successes besides the economy?
I mean, he today touted gay marriage.
HARRISON: Yes, I think he personally was very proud of that achievement. He supported the gay marriage legislation against many of the grassroots of
his party, who were not in favor of it.
I think he felt that -- personally he knew a lot of people, that it really changed their lives and meant a lot to many, many people in the country.
So he's very proud of that. I think his achievements go broader than that, though.
I think we've seen some very profound and I think long-lasting reforms to our education system, to our welfare system, to our universities. And also
I think he also felt a deep responsibility on the security front, given the environment we all live in these days. And he devoted a lot of time and
effort to that.
CURNOW: You spent a lot of time, obviously, working with him. But you also spent a lot of time with Theresa May.
What kind of a woman is she?
What kind of a leader do you think she'll be?
HARRISON: Obviously, I don't know her as well as I know David Cameron. I think she's a combination of quite cautious but extremely tough. I think
she is eminently qualified to be prime minister.
I think one thing, though, is that you never really -- even the senior, you know, other senior positions in government are nothing compared to being
prime minister, compared to the responsibility, compared to the communications skills that are required to explain to the country why
you're doing what you're doing, to explain when things are going not as you would wish.
So I think that, for anyone, even stepping up, as she has been home secretary for six years, even with a senior job like that, we don't really
know how she's going to be as prime minister. I don't think she knows how she'll be as prime minister. It's such a testing job, that -- she's
qualified, she's tough, she's careful and cautious but, in the end, time will tell.
Indeed. And events always happen, to paraphrase that one. Rupert Harrison, thank you so much for giving us your insider's perspective.
CURNOW: Well, that does it from us here at the INTERNATIONAL DESK. I'm Robyn Curnow. Don't go anywhere. "WORLD SPORT" with Christina Macfarlane
is up next.