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Turkish Coup Exposes Rift Between Warring Factions; Nice Attack Suspect Only Recently Radicalized; Promenade in Nice Reopens; U.S.- Based Cleric Denies Involvement in Turkish Coup Attempt; Trump Picks V.P.; Arrests Made in Nice Attack. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired July 17, 2016 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Max Foster in Nice.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: And I'm Becky Anderson in Paris. And this is CNN NEWSROOM.

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ANDERSON: We are continuing to track developments in Turkey after the failed coup attempt that left nearly 200 people dead. Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan is demanding the U.S. arrest or extradite the cleric, Fethullah Gulen.

Mr. Erdogan blames Gulen for the coup and Gulen lives in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania and denies his involvement.

Meanwhile, the president has urged pro-government protesters to continue rallying.

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ANDERSON (voice-over): This was the scene from Ankara on Saturday. Fallout from the failed coup hitting Turkey's military hard, officials say nearly 3,000 personnel have been detained.

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ANDERSON: CNN's Ian Lee joins us now from Istanbul with the very latest -- Ian.

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, the situation right now in Istanbul and across Turkey is calm. But that's a far cry from what it was like just 36 hours ago.

LEE (voice-over): A bloody 24 hours of chaos and bloodshed in Turkey. It started with elements of the military declared it had taken control of the country and imposed martial law. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan appealed to his supporters on FaceTime to take to the streets and fight for democracy. They heeded that call. Social media showed protesters squaring off against tanks and armored vehicles.

Turkish forces loyal to Erdogan crushed the coup but not before isolated heavy fighting. Gunshots reported at the presidential complex in Ankara and helicopters reportedly opened fire at the national intelligence headquarters.

The coup's soldiers eventually abandoned their weapons.

FIKRI ISIK, TURKISH DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): Right now, there's no place that is not under our control. At this point and at this time, there are no risk spots. There are no places that are not under our control. So, yes, the coup is blocked.

LEE: Retribution has begun. At least 2,800 soldiers of various ranks have been arrested and 2,700 members of the judiciary removed. The prime minister vowing they will pay a heavy price.

LEE (voice-over): Now, public enemy number one, this man. Fethullah Gulen, an influential cleric in exile in the United States. Erdogan accuses him of being the puppet master of the attempted overthrow.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translator): I call on the United States and President Barack Obama. Dear Mr. President, I told you this before, either arrest Fethullah Gulen or return him to Turkey.

LEE: Gulen denies responsibility, claiming anyone could have been behind it.

And in a rare show of unity, in a country where politics can be divisive and deadly, Turkey's various political parties united to denounce the coup. That unity, not likely to last. Opposition figures worry the coup gave Erdogan a gift, an excuse to consolidate power while galvanizing his supporters and cracking down on dissent.

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LEE: And, Becky, Gulen spoke with CNN and he said that he has never supported coups in the past and he's not about to start now. Take a listen.

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FETHULLAH GULEN, ISLAMIC CLERIC: Twenty years ago I clearly stated my support for democracy and I said that there's no return from democracy in Turkey. My position is that this democracy is very clear. Any attempts to the contrary is a betrayal of our unity and it's treason.

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LEE: And, Becky, really when it comes down to it, no one knows for sure who is behind this coup. Yes, it was factions within the military.

But was there a bigger political powers at play here?

Frankly, right now, at this hour, we just don't know.

ANDERSON: Ian Lee is in Istanbul, just after midday there. It's 11 o'clock in Paris. Gulen denying any involvement in all of this, then, this attempted coup.

Meantime, Turkey's president looking to consolidate his hold on the country after a violent attempt at overthrowing him. Turkish writer and journalist Mustafa Akyol now joins us on the line --

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ANDERSON: -- from Istanbul, a columnist for "Al-Monitor."

If Washington had one relatively solid democratically elected ally in what is a roiling Middle East in the past, like him or not, it was Mr. Erdogan.

Where does this whole episode leave Turkey and its president?

And what of its relations now with its Western allies, not least that of the U.S.?

MUSTAFA AKYOL, "AL-MONITOR": Well, Becky, first of all, I should say I'm very happy that Turkey averted this bloody brutal coup attempt. They killed -- the Kushes (ph), they killed more than 150 people. And Turkish democracy has been saved.

Our democracy is pretty flawed. We have big issues when we come to freedom of the press and there are very solid criticisms against President Erdogan. Yet still he's a legitimately elected leader. And any attempt to take him down, to kill him or bomb him or as we saw in the coup attempt, would be a major crime. It would put Turkey totally into chaos.

So I'm glad that it's averted. Where this will take Turkey, well, this certainly empowers President Erdogan, which doesn't prove that he orchestrated it, as some people I think ridiculously claimed. This will empower him.

The question is how will he use this power?

President Erdogan has seen on the coup night that some of the circles that he blamed for being involved in conspiracies against him, like the secular media, like the secular position, they actually sided with him when it comes to the defense of democracy. That can be the basis of a national reconciliation.

There are coup makers; we are all against them. We all hate them and they should be punished with due legal process. But besides that, Turkish society, by and large, stood on the side of democracy.

And that is something that I think President Erdogan now see and appreciates that and tries to bring national reconciliation (INAUDIBLE), that would be good. When he moves on to just keep the divisive politics of the past three years, basically demonizing everybody who criticizes him as somehow involved in a conspiracy, that would be, of course, bad.

But we saw that that propaganda is wrong on the very night of the coup attempt.

ANDERSON: Right.

What is his calculus, then, when it comes to relations with Washington at this point?

He has been very clear about Fethullah Gulen. He says to Washington, arrest him or extradite him. He is a terrorist.

Now he's not on a terror watch list in the U.S. And this could really strain relations with Washington.

So is there a sense of how Erdogan wants to play this one at this point?

AKYOL: I mean, that's, of course, now a major issue between Erdogan and Turkey. And I should say that it is not just Erdogan but also even many secular critics of Erdogan, who think that the force behind this coup is the Gulen movement. So that is a very serious, serious issue.

And Mr. Gulen speaks of tolerance, dialogue, democracy when he speaks, that's all fine but also a lot of people think that there's some secrecy going on, some double talk because the group has a covert presence in the police and judiciary and the military.

And last night he went for many people was an evidence of that. So what Turkey has to do is to have a legal process to interrogate the coup makers and the attempters and everybody, to put the links, if there are links, with Gulen. And then U.S. should take that into account. And I think that's an issue that should be solved between two capitals for sure, Washington and Ankara.

ANDERSON: Fascinating. All right, we're going to leave it there for the time being. Thank you so much for your analysis, both yesterday and today, on what is still a very fluid story.

Max, back to you for the time being in Nice.

FOSTER: Thank you, Becky.

Learning more about the man behind Thursday's terror attack, killing 84 people here in Nice. A source close to the investigation tells CNN that the attacker spoke supportively of ISIS just days before the attack.

For the latest on the investigation, I'm joined by CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

It does seem as though he was radicalized very quickly in the last few days before the attack.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: Exactly right, Max. And that's according to what a source close to the investigation has been telling me, as you just pointed out, that he started speaking supportively of ISIS just days before the attack.

Now this is according to what those people, associates of his that were taken into custody in Nice after the attack, are telling police. There were four men taken into custody late Friday and early Saturday.

And the interior minister of France, Bernard Cazeneuve, has of course also spoken of a very quick radicalization process. That appears to be based off this information from the interrogations.

And this is in line what ISIS itself has claimed, which is that their ideology, their --

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CRUICKSHANK: -- calls for attack -- attacks inspired this attacker to proceed with what he did.

But what we're seeing, really, from investigators, is the police said there were a blend of factors when it came to the motivation of this attacker, that he had, on the one hand, very recently become they believe radicalized but also that he suffered from some severe mental health challenges. Even his own family have spoken about those, that he had nervous breakdowns, he was volatile. He was often very angry.

And we've seen a whole string of attacks, really, around the Western world where we've seen both that mental health aspect and also radicalization. And sometimes that can mean it can be an easier jump from radical thought to radical action, that there are less and fewer inhibitions when it comes to actually launching attacks.

But this all very much confounding French authorities, especially if it's confirmed that this radicalization was very, very quick, because how on Earth, Max, are you going to stop these kinds of attacks in the future if people, only just a few days before the attacks, start moving towards a very radical mindset?

FOSTER: OK, Paul, thanks for that new information you're bringing us there. We speak to Melissa Bell to try and put it into context. She's an international affairs editor with France 24, joining us via Skype from Burgundy in France.

This is a frightening new development in the threat, isn't it, Melissa, that the fact that you could be radicalized in a matter of days, how on Earth are the authorities going to be able to predict that sort of thing happening?

MELISSA BELL, FRANCE 24: It is this new profile of this particular attacker, Mohamed Bouhlel, it is the new means by which he carried out this attack that has left this great feeling of insecurity in France.

Even in the middle of these three days of national mourning, even as the country begins to come to terms with his grief, this sense of insecurity that you can almost feel politically, as well.

If you think back to the "Charlie Hebdo" massacres, if you think back to November 13th, there have been this show of national unity, the political parties have come together, barring a few exceptions and (INAUDIBLE).

And on the whole the political classes have really held together as a country, got through a difficult time.

This time it's been entirely different, Max. There's this row between the Right and the Left, right-wing politicians, Republican politicians, here on the right of French politics, (INAUDIBLE) and laying in to the government and what it reckons is its inadequate response to the terrorist threat and this rather worrying display of national disunity even while the national mourning is going on.

I think is a measure of the desperation, of the panic, of the great concern of everyone here in France, that the idea that this threat is going to be much more difficult to deal with in the future than what we've seen so far.

Security failings can be dealt with.

How do you prevent an unstable man from turning to a radical form of Islam that encourages him to rent a truck and plow it into people?

No one has the answer to that -- Max.

FOSTER: It's going to play, isn't it, into this election coming up now, because, you know, there's this concern about immigration. He was an immigrant. You couldn't have done anything to sort of -- there wasn't any intelligence, perhaps, that you could have picked up on him in the month before even.

So the answer here is to sort of clamp down on people that seem like some sort of threat. This plays into this narrative, whether or not it's based on fact.

BELL: Absolutely. And even the profiles of the men involved in the November 13th attacks or in the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks, they were mostly French citizens. So, in a sense, that question was not as key, felt or as widely expressed as it is this time. This was a Tunisian national and that photograph that's become so iconic that we've seen over the last few days is his -- the piece of the document that gives him the right to live in France. He was not a French citizen.

So what the far right and people who support them have pounced on is why was a man, who'd already had a criminal conviction, allowed to stay on French territory?

So, in a sense, much more easily than after the last attack, the particular nationality and residency of this attacker gives people on the far right the opportunity to (INAUDIBLE) the government on that question of immigration and who is allowed into France and who's not.

And I'd just like to bring in one really interesting thing, Max, that's been raised over the last few days. Just a few days before this attack, the minutes of the -- an appearance by the head of France's internal security (INAUDIBLE) were published, even just quite by chance, (INAUDIBLE), he had been warning not only that they were expecting a change in the tactics of the terrorists --

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BELL: -- with these kinds of vehicles used as weapons but that his real worry was that while similar attacks at it was attacks from the far right, they were beginning to feel and he did use the word, the expression, "civil war," as he expressed himself in front of that parliamentary committee as being his number one fear as head of French internal intelligence.

FOSTER: OK, Melissa, there's so much to digest. We'll be doing so in the weeks and months ahead. Thank you very much indeed for joining us -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Max, the Turkish president said he knows exactly who brought about the deadly coup attempt in the country. We're going to explain how an Islamic cleric living in Pennsylvania finds himself accused of treason.

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ANDERSON: The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is pointing the finger towards an exiled cleric in the U.S. for a coup that left nearly 200 people dead. Erdogan is demanding that Fethullah Gulen be arrested or extradited back to Turkey.

People protested outside Gulen's Pennsylvania home on Saturday. But he says he had nothing to do with the uprising. President Erdogan emerged victorious from the coup but his leadership is more in question than ever.

Cyril Vanier joins me now. He's an anchor and an international correspondent for France 24.

And 36 hours after the event, life looks as if it's returned to normal, relatively speaking. But the political plates in Turkey have shifted, haven't they, now?

CYRIL VANIER, FRANCE 24: Of course, deep changes happening below the surface, Becky.

First of all, you've got to look at the military angle. That's what the president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is doing first and foremost. He's got to get rid of his enemies. He now knows that he has enemies within the ranks of the military.

So a purge has begun. And that takes place after any coup d'etat. The winning side usually engages in a witch hunt that can really degenerate quickly. We know 3,000 soldiers have been rounded up, 3,000 judges have been rounded up as well. And I don't care how big your judiciary is, that is huge. That's the military side of it. That's the judiciary branch of government.

What about the political angle?

Recep Tayyip Erdogan thinking, how can I use this --

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VANIER: -- to my advantage?

He has said to people publicly, he has said this is an opportunity from God, I am going to use it.

What does he mean by that?

He knows, he knows that he can extend his base of support now beyond just the religious conservatives and the low-income families to include people who may not like his politics but at least do not want the army to be back running a civilian --

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ANDERSON: And in the corridors of power around the world, not least in Washington, they will be wondering what happens next.

President Erdogan has been very explicit, for example, about the man he believes is behind this. He lives in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania. He has said to Washington, arrest him or send him back.

What happens next?

VANIER: Well, Washington's just going to wonder how far President Erdogan intends to push this Gulen angle. Erdogan is blaming everything on this Islamic cleric, who is based in the mountains of Pennsylvania --

ANDERSON: And has been since 1999.

VANIER: -- absolutely. He's been in exile for over 15 years. And Erdogan says he's the one who's trying to overthrow his regime and his government.

Now the U.S. has said, OK, we'll cooperate but do provide some intelligence and some proof of what you're saying. Otherwise, we're going to respect the rule of law. And that's as it should be.

Of course, if Erdogan chooses to use his leverage against the U.S., which is the access that he grants them to some of his military facilities, then the U.S. is going to be in a difficult position with respect to its regional efforts against the Islamic State --

ANDERSON: How dangerous an ally is an angry President Erdogan?

VANIER: When he's angry, he's angry. And he's got that leverage that we just talked about. He's a necessary ally but he's also a fickle one. He's been unreliable in the past. The U.S. has expressed many times its frustrations as to Erdogan's ambiguity towards the Islamic State group.

And only just recently did he really fully engage in the war against the jihadists. So the U.S. must be sorry at this point, Washington must be sorry at this point, to see him sort of play both sides of the coin.

ANDERSON: And we have a guest coming up at this hour, who is working on behalf of the Turkish government in the case against Gulen So perhaps we'll get some answers as to whether there really is any evidence against him.

Thank you, Cyril, joining me here.

Max is in Nice.

FOSTER: Becky, French prosecutors saying authorities have arrested two more people in connection with a deadly terror attack here in Nice.

We're also learning from a source close to the investigation that the man who killed 84 people spoke supportively of ISIS in the days before the attack. All of this as the promenade where the massacre happened has now reopened. CNN's Will Ripley is here with me.

And there's this huge effort, isn't there here, to get back to normal?

But it just, you know, it doesn't feel anything like that.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It doesn't. If you take a picture, there's still the same beautiful stretch of the French Riviera. It's still the same iconic promenade.

Yet if you look down, you see marks on the pavement where people died. They haven't been able -- as much power washing as they've done, they haven't been able to get rid of that.

And then you see the memorials, the spontaneous memorials that have continued to pop up and so you're out there in this beautiful place and you're just really constantly reminded of the carnage.

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RIPLEY (voice-over): The French Riviera, a place of undeniable beauty and now unthinkable tragedy. For the first time since the attack in Nice, the beach is back open. So is the iconic Promenade des Anglais. All appears normal until you see the flowers marking the spots where so many died.

GEOFF DONOVAN, NICE MASSACRE WITNESS: A lot of people were closer down here, saw their family being killed, saw their children being killed. I feel for those and the thousands of people that are related and friends of theirs. RIPLEY (voice-over): Geoff Donovan from Australia watched from his fifth-floor balcony. A young boy died in the lobby of his hotel, one of many children buying candy from Juliette (INAUDIBLE).

"That one was shouting, that one was crying," she says. "It was a catastrophe to see death in front of you. It was hard, really, really hard."

Here, heartbreaking reminders of young lives lost.

One note reads, "Twenty hit here, many children."

Another, "Our thoughts are with you, little princess."

Of the 84 who died, more than a dozen remain unidentified. Along this promenade, these pictures of the missing.

Alexandre Goutagny (ph) is helping his neighbors search for some of those missing. He lives in Nice. He's haunted by the children he saw running, crying, calling for their parents who didn't make it.

ALEXANDRE GOUTAGNY (PH), NICE MASSACRE WITNESS: It's quite difficult for me to sleep, you know, because I'm hearing the voices, I'm seeing the faces and remembering the faces of these children.

RIPLEY (voice-over): His sister in Paris called to check on him after the attack. Last November 13th, he called to check on her. Terrorists stormed Le Petit Cambodge restaurant, shooting her twice. His sister survived. Three of her friends died.

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GOUTAGNY (PH): I think nobody can feel safe, you know?

We are experience, we are changing our mind, we are changing our way to live.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Things appear back to normal here. But life will never be the same.

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RIPLEY: There may be some who think the Promenade des Anglais reopened too soon. But this headline says it all, "Life is stronger than fear."

And, Max, for France, which has endured now three major attacks in the last 19 months, people defiantly want to move forward.

Yes, some are afraid. They're afraid of public gatherings. It was in Paris last month, during the Euro 2016 matches, people were fearful. During the Fete a la Musique, the free music festival, the crowds why smaller because people were fearful that something would happen.

And then when nothing happened, people, on Bastille Day, were finally starting to relax a bit. And then now we have what happened here in Nice. And yet France is determined. They know that they're a target. They're boosting security as best they can. They're asking for civilian volunteers to keep extra eyes.

But people don't want to give up the values and the quality of life that makes France such an attractive place for so many people but also a target for jihadists.

FOSTER: Yes. Will, thank you very much, indeed.

Becky, you've seen it before, where we have these incidents and everyone goes out to the bistros and they're trying to feel normal but it just doesn't feel normal. And it will be, you know, this is sort of a new reality now, it's almost there's a default position that happens after an attack in France.

ANDERSON: Terrible, isn't it.

All right, Max. Thank you for the time being.

Coming up here on CNN, President Erdogan has directly accused the U.S.-based cleric of being behind the attempted coup in Turkey. Our next guest says there are indications of direct involvement. We'll ask him what evidence he has -- after this.

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FOSTER: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world, I'm Max Foster in Nice.

ANDERSON: And I'm Becky Anderson in Paris for you today.

And chaos gave way to celebrations after the failed coup in Turkey. Government supporters marched through Ankara. Travelers stuck at Istanbul's Ataturk Airport are now able to move on. The airport has resumed normal operations.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan blames a self-exiled cleric in the United States for the violence that began on Friday. He's telling Washington to arrest or extradite Fethullah Gulen. But Gulen has denied any involvement.

Let's sift through all those allegations that the Turkish government is leveling against Fethullah Gulen. Robert Amsterdam is counsel to the Turkish government in the U.S. on the Gulen case, joining me from Washington.

And sir, thank you for being with us this morning. You, I know, have been in constant communication with the president's aides during and after this attempted coup.

What is the feeling at the presidential palace at this point? ROBERT AMSTERDAM, INTERNATIONAL LAWYER: Look, they're secure that they've retained control. They're frustrated, as you know, by America's lack of movement in respect to Gulen.

And I want to make something clear. We were tasked by the Turkish government almost a year ago to investigate Gulen. We have outlined, in papers that are available on the Web, guleninvestigations.com, we've outlined in meticulous detail criminal activity being conducted in the United States.

Mr. Gulen takes half a billion dollars out of the U.S. economy through charter schools. He's one of the largest charter school operators in the United States. He moves that money around to those connected to his organization. And a lot of that money very well ends up in Turkey.

He is reputed to be worth somewhere between $25 billion, perhaps $50 billion, massive amounts of money. He has penetrated the state of Turkey; he's also penetrated American politics, giving massive donations to political figures in the United States. The Turkish government has --

ANDERSON: Right. I'm going to stop you there --

AMSTERDAM: Sure.

ANDERSON: -- for one second because we are talking specifically about allegations that he was behind -- he was the mastermind of this attempted coup. You have been quoted in media as saying there have been indications of direct involvement.

What evidence do you have, sir?

AMSTERDAM: Well, again, if you read the quote carefully, it says "sources within the Turkish government have advised." The intelligence agencies have advised.

We are within 24 hours, 36 hours of this event occurring. They have specific information. They have communications. They have the personnel that were involved under interrogation. And that information is being assembled and put together and provided to the United States.

ANDERSON: You've also been quoted as saying, you and your firm have attempted repeatedly to warn the U.S. government of the threat posed by Gulen and his followers.

What exactly is that threat?

AMSTERDAM: Well, as I've outlined in complaints in California and Texas, Mr. Gulen's organization is educating 60,000 American students. Gulen himself is not what he appears. He is not some reclusive imam.

He is operating a massive business, massive H-1B visa fraud in the United States, bringing his followers here under false pretenses, using special contracts that rebate money back to Pennsylvania. It's a fairly massive conspiracy.

Frankly, Ms. Anderson, if your people read the hundreds of pages of documents we've submitted, you'll see meticulous detail that we've laid out.

And by the way, some great American reporters, Mikelapoulos (ph) in Chicago and others, have also laid out the connections between American politicians and Gulen at state, federal and local level.

Gulen's organization is under investigation by Congress for 200 congressional delegations that Gulen has sponsored to Turkey. Gulen has hired some of the biggest PR organizations and law firms in the world.

[05:35:00]

AMSTERDAM: He spends millions of dollars as a political operator not only in the United States but in Africa. And he is a massive --

ANDERSON: OK. And with respect, sir --

AMSTERDAM: -- business entrepreneur and money launderer. And all of that evidence is out there, all of that --

ANDERSON: -- right and we --

(CROSSTALK)

AMSTERDAM: -- evidence has been public. And while the FBI is investigating, Homeland Security and others are investigating, to date, nothing -- there's been no activity, no prosecutions, as yet, in the United States.

ANDERSON: Right. And that is important. And that is clearly important with respect that we've also done our own research as well.

So let's bring this back to the attempted military coup that happened some 36 hours ago in Turkey.

You are retained by the Turkish president's group, as it were. This is a man that Erdogan was friends with back in 2003. They have fallen out. Clearly there are issues so far as Erdogan is concerned.

Now you've laid out the fact that the authorities in the U.S. have investigated. They have found nothing to date.

I want to put this to you again, why is it that President Erdogan says that he is sure, he has evidence, that Gulen was behind this specific attempted coup?

Is there any evidence to support that?

Sounds to me as if we may have lost our guest, which is disappointing, because we were getting somewhere on that. All right. Apologies for that. You got the drift of where we were going.

All right, George is with us today, he's got more of the other news that's making headlines today -- George.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Becky, thank you.

The race for the U.S. president, Donald Trump picks Mike Pence as his running mate. Why the Indiana governor says he is teaming up and getting on the Trump train -- as CNN NEWSROOM continues.

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HOWELL: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm George Howell.

Before we get into politics, we will have more information on a story that we're following in Titusville, Florida, this city on the state's East Coast. Authorities there say two women and an elderly patient at a hospital, that they are dead, this facility now secure.

We'll get more information on that as we continue to follow that story here on CNN.

The presumptive Republican nominee for U.S. president, Donald Trump, has made his pick. Indiana governor Mike Pence will serve as his running mate. The two held their first rally in New York Saturday. Pence says that he was honored to accept that position and that he laid out why he agreed to team up with Trump.

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GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), IND.: Yes, I answered this call for two reasons. First, because I know from first-hand experience that strong, Republican leadership can bring about real change just like we've seen in the Hoosier State.

And, secondly, because Hillary Clinton must never become President of the United States of America.

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HOWELL: Keeping in mind, though, that Pence had originally backed Ted Cruz in the Republican primary in Indiana.

But Trump says the need to bring the conservative party together played a big role in his decision for V.P.

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DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One of the big reasons that I chose Mike and one of the reasons is party unity, I have to be honest. So many people have said party unity because I'm an outsider. I want to be an outsider. I think it's one of the reasons I won in landslides. I won in landslides. This wasn't close. This wasn't close.

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HOWELL: So let's talk more about it with CNN Politics reporter Eugene Scott, live in Washington with more.

Eugene, good to have you with us. So we just heard Donald Trump there saying it wasn't close back during the primaries. And he brought Mike Pence in to bring the party together.

But explain Pence's appeal when it comes to establishment voters and also the fact that Mr. Pence -- there's rumor, a possibility that Trump was second-guessing that choice.

EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Sure, very much so. As you just saw Donald Trump mention, he is an outsider, which has been much of the reason for his success.

But Mike Pence is very much an insider. In addition to being governor of Indiana, he has had what many would consider a classically traditional Republican career. He is a law school graduate; prior to being governor, he did a stint in Congress, being elected during part of the Tea Party wave.

He was previously head of a conservative think tank. He's also had a very successful career in conservative talk radio. In many ways, he is straight out of central casting for people in the Republican Party, looking for someone to kind of temper or balance, should we say, Donald Trump.

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But as you mention, regarding some of those rumors, our own CNN's Dana Bash was reporting that there were some rumors, that top aides from the Trump campaign mentioned, that the night before Donald Trump tweeted that it would be Mike Pence, that he was second-guessing whether or not that was the right move for him.

HOWELL: OK. So an establishment candidate, who is appealing to establishment voters, who, at one point, called the proposed Muslim ban "offensive and unconstitutional."

SCOTT: Right.

HOWELL: A candidate, as well, who compromised to expand the affordable health care law in his state, also a candidate who, at one point, backed Ted Cruz, reversals on all of them.

How is he explaining his way around that?

SCOTT: Well, he talked about this a bit Friday or at least cnnpolitics.com reported it then. He would argue that things have been different.

When he first pushed back on Donald Trump's Muslim ban, that was then, that was December. But as you have highlighted multiple times, we have had quite a few terrorist attacks since then.

And also Donald Trump has moderated his position a bit, saying that the ban would only apply to Muslims coming from terrorist states.

And so I think Mike Pence has argued that he could get behind that idea, opposed to the traditional idea, as well as the fact that there are just greater concerns among the base in the party about the direction of where the world is going in terms of ISIS and other terrorist groups.

HOWELL: How is the Clinton campaign responding to the new Trump-Pence ticket?

SCOTT: Well, as you can imagine, they are attacking him --

[05:45:00]

SCOTT: -- very viciously on his social conservatism.

I wrote a story yesterday about Elizabeth Warren, who has become increasingly vocal in this campaign in terms of her pushback towards Donald Trump. She has now shifted gears towards Mike Pence, which I think is a bit interesting, considering the rumors that Elizabeth Warren could be Hillary Clinton's pick.

But two of the main issues they are attacking Mike Pence on are his views on women. He's one of the leaders in the fight to defund Planned Parenthood and put many women in a position where they will not be able to exercise their abortion rights, is how the Left would describe it, as well as some of his positions on LGBT issues.

As you know, Indiana made national and perhaps international attention for some of its laws, very traditional laws, that could affect gay citizens.

HOWELL: Eugene Scott, live for us in Washington.

And the Republican National Convention kicks off on Monday. We'll see how this show all comes together.

Eugene, thank you so much.

SCOTT: Thank you.

HOWELL: Let's now go back to my colleague, Becky Anderson, who joins us now live in Paris, following the events in Turkey and that failed coup -- Becky.

ANDERSON: That's right. Thank you.

There is growing uncertainty after the failed coup attempt in Turkey. When we return, a look at some of the sights and sounds of the unrest.

(SPORTS)

[05:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back to our viewers in the U.S. and around the world, I'm Becky Anderson in Paris.

FOSTER: And I'm Max Foster in Nice, France, trying to come to terms with the deadly terror attack that claimed the lives of 84 people in Nice on Thursday.

ISIS is claiming the man who drove a 20-ton truck into a crowd is one of their soldiers. A source close to the investigation tells CNN that the attacker spoke supportively of the terror group just days before the attack.

A spokeswoman for the anti-terrorism prosecutor's office tells CNN there've been two new arrests in the attack of a man and a woman. France is observing three days of mourning to remember the lives of those lost in this tragedy.

Christophe (ph) (INAUDIBLE) joins us now, he's a reporter with the Nice (INAUDIBLE) newspaper and was one of the first journalists at the scene of the attack.

So what was the first you heard about it?

CHRISTOPHE (PH), JOURNALIST : I was (INAUDIBLE) this night. I was watching fireworks. It was a celebration for everybody for the 14th of July and beautiful day after euro and after 2015 in France. And I was going to call, to call as I was in permanence (ph), call the -- and before I called I received a call from my chief (INAUDIBLE) who says, look, Christophe (ph), we have a big problem.

And we just receive a call from (INAUDIBLE), a colleague of mine, who was in front of the biggest discotheque in Nice, on the promenade and just said a truck went on the people, struck everybody. I couldn't believe it.

But I called (INAUDIBLE), who said we still just don't know what is occurring there, we're just going there. And so I run to my car and started to go on the promenade. I was phoning to my colleague who was there, who could have been dead this night, and he explained me with an almost normal voice because I think nobody realized, he told me it's crazy. The truck went on everybody. There are dead everywhere. People in several bodies, several pieces.

And I couldn't believe him. And but just after I hang up, I saw bodies, bodies, bodies, bodies. And first I was thinking it was localized just in front of a night club. But then I stopped my car and looked, bodies, people everywhere, some (INAUDIBLE) workmen started to arrive, but it was just starting.

And I look over promenade. It was all blue, starting to be all blue on kilometers, men, policemen and everywhere.

So now I realize, I was wondering if there was several trucks.

I thought, how could a truck do all of that?

And just after people started to tell me, everybody was thinking about two guy with fire weapon inside the old town, just here.

And I was thinking, this is just like the 13th of November in Paris, something like that.

FOSTER: And so you quickly realized what it was?

CHRISTOPHE (PH): Yes, but, so I tried to -- I -- first minutes you cannot think of -- you have consideration, you don't know where to start from.

FOSTER: I just want to ask you, (INAUDIBLE), almost time, but this is the first time you've been back into the city center since it all happened.

(CROSSTALK)

FOSTER: How would you describe briefly the atmosphere here, compared with normality?

CHRISTOPHE (PH): I even have -- yes, I can see the (INAUDIBLE), the green -- I don't know how you say, green line, like in New York, you know, it's been opened again.

But last time I was in the center, I was just going to press conference of (INAUDIBLE) de Paris. And it was all closed. Normally here, it's just celebration, you know.

And four days before the attack was the final of Euro soccer and France lost. But nobody cares anymore. Obviously, I was thinking just after the final, we escaped any attack, terrorism attack.

FOSTER: It's just a very different atmosphere now, Becky, understandably. I mean it's just a couple of days ago, really.

ANDERSON: Terrible, isn't it?

All right.

We're going to wrap up this hour for you with some of the dramatic images of the attempted coup in Turkey on Friday. Have a look at these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOUTASEM ATIYA, AMERICAN IN ISTANBUL (voice-over): The environment here has been completely electric. I was trying to make it back to the European side, where my hotel was. We couldn't make it because the --

[05:55:00]

ATIYA (voice-over): -- bridges were blocked. We were told to turn around, there's an attempted coup. (MUSIC PLAYING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

KAT COHEN, AMERICAN WITNESS (voice-over): All the lights were just shut down and we're hearing gunshots, helicopters overhead. And we just had fighter pilots go over us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): The government is in control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Testing times in Turkey and, of course, also here in France.

Thank you for joining us on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Becky Anderson in Paris.

FOSTER: And I'm Max Foster in Nice. The news continues here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)