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Donald Trump Jr. Makes Fiery Speech; Speechwriter Defends Donald Trump Jr.'s Words; Trump's Children Address Delegates; Gov. Christie's Full-Scale Attack On Clinton; GOP Officially Nominates Trump; Melania's Plagirism Controversy. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired July 20, 2016 - 01:00   ET


[01:00:08] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And it's official. Just like that, Republicans nominate Donald J. Trump on day two right here in Cleveland, Ohio. Isn't that a beautiful shot? We're not even up yet.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. It's after hours here at the CNN Grill and we've got a lot to talk about tonight, speeches from former rivals, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan, and from the candidate's son, Donald Trump Jr., laying out the case for his father and blasting Hillary Clinton on the night after his stepmother, Melania Trump's, very controversial speech. We have got a lot to talk about tonight. So I want to get right now to may political dream team, and that's who I'm talking about here. Andy Dean is here. Who else is here? David Chalian is here, Kayleigh McEnany, Maria Cardona, Amanda Carpenter is here. Did I miss anybody else? I got everybody.

All right, Andy, who do you think was the big boss tonight? Who had the best speech?

ANDY DEAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Donald Trump Jr., by far, knocked it out of the park. Just the star. But there was one moment I did like when Ben Carson said that Hillary Clinton has a connection to Lucifer. That was playing to me. I enjoyed that.

LEMON: That was a little odd. People were texting me going, what --

DEAN: No, because there was a connection, like a Kevin Bacon game, that Saul Alinsky said that Lucifer, Satan is the ultimate radical, and Hillary Clinton is a fan of Saul Alinsky, therefore by the transitive property, there may be a connection. (laughter)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you been drinking already?

DEAN: Not yet. But that, I like.

LEMON: On a serious note, though --

DEAN: I thought it was great.

LEMON: -- because I'm on late, I was getting dressed watching Donald Trump Jr., and I thought, finally, a real speech. It was a fantastic speech, knocked it out of the ballpark. Let's listen to a little bit of it.


DONALD TRUMP JUNIOR, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: Our schools used to be an elevator to the middle class. Now they're stalled on the ground floor. They're like soviet-era department stores that are run for the benefit of the clerks and not the customers.

Let me tell you how he ran his businesses, and I know, because I was there with him by his side on job sites, in conference rooms, from the time I could walk. He didn't hide out behind some desk in an executive suite. He spent his career with regular Americans. He hung out with the guys on construction sites, pouring sheetrock and hanging -- pouring concrete and hanging sheetrock. He listened to them and he valued their opinions as much and often more than the guys from Harvard and Wharton, locked away in offices away from the real work. He's recognized the talent and the drive that all Americans have. He's promoted people based on their character, their street smarts, and their work ethic, not simply paper credentials.


LEMON: I mean, David Chalian, I was wondering how he got so tan. He's always tan. But tonight he was especially tan. Anyway, what did you think of this remarks?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think I watched the speech of a future politician there. I mean, I think this is the member of the family that clearly has the most interest in politics in that way, has been involved in -- the one, we know, registered Republican child of him all throughout this process, so a member of the delegation, put his dad over the top tonight. He clearly feels this moment in a way, in a political sense, that was apparent on that stage. He had command. He had total command. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a political future. I think, though, if you pair his speech with that of the his sister's speech, Tiffany, you sort of get a whole picture. I thought -- I thought Tiffany Trump gave us some of those anecdotes about her dad, about the sense of what it was like growing up --

LEMON: I want to stick with Donald Trump Jr., if you don't mind, because while he was talking, my friend said, do you know -- have you met Donald Trump Jr.? I'm like, yes. I sent him a picture of us together at Trump Tower, and he said, future president, question mark.

CHALIAN: Who knows. But I watched that speech the way you watch an up and coming politician at a convention. You're like, oh, wow, this is somebody I'm going to be watching for years to come who may have real interest in getting in this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoever helped him with that speech, that is the speechwriter the Trump campaign needs. It was a good speech, it was coherent, it had a story, it had anecdotes, it was disciplined. Of the speeches the entire night, it was one of the most sane. Kind of sane, something we were talking about Lucifer, although I know Andy liked that one. But it was a good speech.

DEAN: What Don Jr. has, you cannot teach in a classroom.

LEMON: Well he should try to teach his dad to read a teleprompter. I forgot he was reading a teleprompter.

DEAN: Don Jr. has a gift. He just has the people touch.

[01:04:54] KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm so glad you played that one clip you played because to me, you captured the 20 most important seconds of that speech. He took an opportunity to reach out to middle class voters, the voters who will determine this election, and say, my dad was there. He was there by the guy pouring concrete. He empowered people who didn't have doctorates from Harvard but doctorates in common sense. These are the voters that need to be reached, and Donald Trump Jr. personalized his dad in a way that spoke to the heart of the middle class voters.

LEMON: Tat was -- when you said he has a gift, he's sort of a really, really rich guy, seemed like sort of a middle class struggling guy. He's not really -- He's a great businessman.

MCENANY: He's a blue collar billionaire though. That's his ethos.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought what was striking was that he did give us some personal insight into Donald Trump the father, but then he went straight into the red meat, which, to David's point, much more like a politician. In fact, a much better politician than his own father.

LEMON: His own father, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, and strikingly, and you guys are the experts -- much more knowledgeable in conservative orthodoxy than his own father as well. And so I think in that sense, he did help his dad to sort of give a comfort level to conservatives to say, OK, well at least if he has Donald Trump Jr. at his side, he can understand what conservatism actually is.

LEMON: But is this all about red meat? I mean, because he's actually -- he's standing in front of the crowd, but also, the bigger crowd is at home in front of the television.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. What I don't think -- what I don't think he did, and I disagree with Kayleigh on this, I don't think he reached out and appealed to a broader cross section of supporters that Donald Trump doesn't already have. And that is something that has not been done in this convention yet. Certainly has not been done in this campaign. And if they don't start doing it soon, there is no path to the White House for Donald Trump.

MCENANY: I'm a bit perplexed by what you all mean by, this is a red meat speech, because it wasn't that at all. He spoke about education and used to be a pipeline to the middle class, but now you get an education and you can't find a job. Most of our college graduates can't find jobs.

LEMON: I'm glad you're mentioning that, because that was part of the controversial moment tonight. We had Plagiar-gate last night, and this isn't quite Plagiar-gate tonight, but there was an issue with it. I want to play the sound bite. Part of -- this is what Kayleigh was talking about, and then I'm going to ask David about it. Listen.


TRUMP JR: Our schools used to be an elevator to the middle class. Now they're stalled on the ground floor. They're like soviet-era department stores that are run for the benefit of the clerks and not the customers.


LEMON: So, the article where -- we have the article that was written, I think it was "The American Spectator", F.H. Buckley, and -- let's put up the full screen here. So -- "The American Conservative", sorry. And so those are the two together. An issue, but not really an issue. Explain to us what's going on. Is this plagiarism?

CHALIAN: What we've learned is, what you see on the right side of the screen there, an article in May, written by Mr. Buckley, who was the principal speechwriter for Donald Trump Jr.'s speech tonight, so he used some of the words that he used in his own article in the speech tonight. There are two things going on here. One, there's the press addicted to a plagiarism story line and wanting to stick with the controversy that isn't really a controversy. And so I don't think this will matter much. I do think from just a campaign practice point of view, because of what happened last night with Melania --

LEMON: Be careful.

CHALIAN: -- the bar is now so high that every speech needs to be so thoroughly vetted, and if there is language, even from the guy who wrote it, himself --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right. And he should have known better, actually.

CHALIAN: If there is language, you can understand that because of yesterday, and the bar is higher, that it might have made sense for Donald Trump Jr. to --

LEMON: So did this go out --

CHALIAN: But I truly don't think -- this is nothing like last night. This is not a real -- I don't even think it's a real controversy, and I think that, quite frankly, I think a lot of --

LEMON: But it's a cautionary tale.

CHALIAN: -- talk about it and be like, what are you guys talking about now?

LEMON: OK, so here's the thing. You know how the transcript goes out before, this is a transcript, it's embargoed, don't put it out, and what have you. Did this transcript go out before? Did they do that, do you know?

CHALIAN: The embargoed remarks of Donald Trump Jr.'s speech? There were embargoed remarks.

LEMON: So perhaps, when you do that, should you say, from "The American Conservative" on May whatever, 2016 -- I'm just wondering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don't think borrowing a metaphor is the worst thing. Peggy Noonan famously did it from a poem for Ronald Reagan when the Challenger crashed, and they talk something about slipping the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God. That was borrowed from a poem, and Peggy Noonan didn't get nailed with plagiarism. I think it's OK to borrow a metaphor, as long as you don't really try to hide where it came from, say, this is inspired by this, and of course, I read that article and it stuck in my head. I think that's more OK than borrowing a paragraph of a speech for another person who gave a very similar type of speech at a very similar event. I think there's different --

[01:10:01] MCENANY: Which by the way -- no one mentioned this yet, Barack Obama did the exact same thing, took an entire paragraph --

LEMON: It's not the same, and let me tell you why.

MCENANY: It's the exact same --


LEMON: It's not the same thing because they are friends and they borrow from each other --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he admitted it.

LEMON: Michelle Obama and Melania Trump are not friends, and he admitted it, and he went off prompter with it. It was not in the script. He was hammered for it.

MCENANY: The media marginalized it, said he forgot to footnote, unlike what has been done to Melania Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He admitted it, Kayleigh.

MCENANY: Unlike what has been done to Melania Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you get called on it, you say, yes, I was --

MCENANY: But the bar is very different. Michelle Obama also lifted a line from a Saul Alinsky book in her speech. Again, no scrutiny. Joe Biden took life events from someone. That one did get attention, as it should have. But there is a double standard here and I think it is worth pointing out.

LEMON: I don't think it's a double standard. I really don't. I think if you and I are friends and I borrow something and they say, you got that from Kayleigh's speech, and I would say, yes, I did. You admit it and then you move on.

MCENANY: Both of them would have been kicked out of law school because plagiarism does not have barriers. This is your friend, therefore it's no longer plagiarism. It's not an argument.

CHALIAN: But I do think after last night that there is a burden on the campaign for zero error on this now, total --

LEMON: But that's why I asked. Should there be attribution in the transcript?

CHALIAN: I do think that, because last night happened, they're in a new ball game of it. So I understand why this got attention, but it's -- the guy wrote these words --

LEMON: Put up his tweet. This is the guy who wrote the words. He actually had to come out tonight, to David's point, about where the bar is now. That's not the tweet. And then he tweeted, not this tweet -- yes, there we go. And he said, except it wasn't stealing because he actually wrote it himself.

CHALIAN: Same author.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But here's the problem. It underscores that this has no -- this campaign has no professionalism.

DEAN: No. That's ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- whatsoever, that it is a hot mess.

DEAN: Literally, you're going insane. This is an elevator metaphor. Since the beginning of elevators, people have made an elevator metaphor. People watching at home are shaking their heads --


I'm spinning my head. It says nothing about the campaign except, we like elevators and we like elevators going up. Trump builds buildings, we like elevators. (laughter)

LEMON: So let's ask -- let me ask the question in a way that Maria didn't. They're saying that because of what happened last night, maybe in some part because of this little controversy, which is not a controversy, that this campaign is not ready for primetime. Is that a fair question to ask, especially after Melania --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not because of Eric's speech. It's probably because of some of the other ones.

LEMON: That's what I'm talking about, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lock-her-ups, if I understand the basis of that, but to kind of cheer the prosecution and jailing of a political opponent at a major convention is a little frightening to even me, and I'm no Hillary Clinton fan. I do think she didn't follow the rules, all of that. But to say, I'm going to ignore the FBI recommendations and just throw her in jail, that's new territory. That's going to stick. That's what they're going to be talking about next week and that's going to be problematic through August. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, by the way, when you have a Republican

senator tweet out that that was completely jumping the shark, if you will, it gives it zero credibility and, again, to my point, this convention has done zero to appeal to a broader swath of voters and, you know, as a Democrat, I'm thrilled about that.

LEMON: Hang on. Let me read this, Kayleigh. This is Jeff Flake, too. It says, @HillaryClinton now belongs in prison? Come on. We could make case that she shouldn't be elected without jumping the shark. And Jeff Flake is a respected, respected member.

MCENANY: The audience was chanting that. Chris Christie's speech was very good to show that Hillary Clinton is guilty for her flaws. She has lied to the American people. Lied.

LEMON: I've got to get to a break. I've got to get to a break.


MCENANY: The fact checkers that liberals always hail, Politifact checked it out, check, check, check -- she deceived the American people on all four points.


LEMON: We'll fact check that after the break. Stick around. We're going to do some fact checking. We're also -- Plagiar-gate is not over yet. We're going to talk about that. There's an article that sort of tells us how this might have happened. We're going to go through all of that coming back live from the CNN Grill here in Cleveland. This is CNN TONIGHT, tomorrow, this morning.


[01:18:26] All right. Welcome back, everyone. You're looking at -- there's the hall. Look how many people are in there. It is packed with people. That would be sarcasm. Donald Trump, everybody's packed in the grill here, though. Donald Trump now the official nominee of the Republican Party. His children front and center at the convention tonight, or last night. I want to bring in now, nationally syndicated conservative talk show host, Mr. Dennis Prager. Lovely of you to join us. And then back with me, of course, my political dream team. Good to have you on.

We heard from Donald Trump's children tonight, Mr. Prager. Who do you think is the standout star, was it Donald Jr.?

DENNIS PRAGER, RADIO HOST: Yes, everybody felt that. There's no question. I thought the daughter was excellent too, by the way.


PRAGER: And look, they have really one purpose, and I think they did fulfill it to a large extent, and that is to humanize that man.

LEMON: Let's listen to him. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIFFANY TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: As a recent college graduate, many of my accomplishments are still to come, but my dad takes such pride in all that I've done so far, no matter how big or how small. I still keep all of my report cards, some dating back to kindergarten, because I like to look back and see the sweet notes he wrote on each and every one of them. Contrary to what you might expect from someone who places the emphasis on results, my dad's comments referred often to the sentiments expressed by my teachers about how I acted in and out of the classroom, just not even focusing on the letter grades themselves. Donald Trump has never done anything halfway, least of all as a parent.


[01:20:03] LEMON: It's the kind of personal story that many people have been asking about. I thought she was great. What is she, she just graduated college, she's in her 20s? To get up there in front of that many people, that's not an easy thing to do.

PRAGER: Look, the most anti-Trump person has to admit he has good kids. All right? I mean, most -- most Democrats or Republicans would happily have those kids as their children.


PRAGER: That's an achievement. I'm a parent, and I have to say, that is an achievement. And not only that, but to have it after divorce, where there's so often alienation. That's a credit to the man. Here's my theory then I'll shut up, because you know I always --

LEMON: I have you here to talk.

PRAGER: No, no, I know that, but I always feel bad if there are other panelists.

LEMON: They're going to be here all night. Don't worry about it. (laughter)

PRAGER: Oh, they are. Very good. So here is a -- a bit of a progressive theory. I see him as increasingly -- because I was opposed to him the entire primary season.

LEMON: Really?

PRAGER: But I see him increasingly as a sheep in wolf's clothing and her as a wolf in wolf's clothing.

LEMON: (laughter) Meaning Hillary Clinton?

PRAGER: Yes, that's my theory.

LEMON: I think Chris Christie would agree with you. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Over the last eight years, we've seen this administration refuse to hold her accountable for her dismal record as secretary of state. So let's do something fun tonight. Tonight, as a former federal prosecutor, I welcome the opportunity to hold Hillary Rodham Clinton accountable for her performance and her character.

She was the chief engineer of the disastrous overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya. Libya, today, after Hillary Clinton's grand strategy, their economy's in ruins, there's death and violence on the streets, and ISIS now dominating that country. So can I'm going to ask you this -- Hillary Clinton, as a failure for ruining Libya and creating a nest for terrorist activity by ISIS, answer me now, is she guilty or not guilty?



LEMON: OK. So here's what our fact checkers found, panel, and Dennis Prager, because I want you to respond to this. Said that CNN's fact checkers rated the accusation that Hillary Clinton was a chief engineer false, and then, she responded quickly, she said, you think Chris Christie can lecture anyone on ethics? We have a bridge to sell you. She has a problem with truthfulness or trustworthiness. Do you think this blunts that attack?

PRAGER: Well, the truth is, I don't particularly care for Chris Christie, but he wasn't guilty on that bridge issue. One of his employees was. And you know, I really -- I'm fanatical on the issue of truth. I don't care where it falls, but if we abandon truth, we're doomed.

LEMON: We're together on that.

PRAGER: I know that. That's part of the reason we really like each other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are playing a lot of games with this law and order stuff, and I think this is really uncomfortable. Chris Christie is a credible prosecutor. Why is he potentially undermining that professional status he's achieved by playing these games with audiences, is she guilty? I think it's a disservice to what he has done as an elected official and it's just sort of strange to see this joking around about her being guilty. Yes, people think that she did do wrong things, but the way to hold her accountable is to just beat her at the ballot box. I mean, the investigations have been concluded, and to act like you're going to be elected and then take retroactive action to undo what other investigations have found is profoundly disturbing.

LEMON: Were you in the hall tonight? Were you guys in the hall? How did that play in the hall? Because I didn't see it in the hall.

MCENANY: It played very well. And that interpretation is ignoring 90 percent of his speech. This was not relitigating a case. The e-mail controversy was one small piece of a larger speech where he was saying, she's guilty for going into Libya. She's guilty for going into Syria. It was an indictment of her foreign policy package in a very creative way that was an appealing to an audience. This is not a legal case he's litigating on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Except that so much of that was based on complete falsehoods.

MCENANY: OK, well let's go through this. Did Hillary go into Libya? Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did. But, again, according to Tom Foreman --

MCENANY: Let's go through all of this, one by one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was not completely her responsibility. And by the way, if you want to talk about Libya, Donald Trump in 2011 actually was for going into Libya, talked about, Gaddafi needed to be taken out, and, let's remember, Mike Pence, the vice presidential nominee of the party, thanked Hillary Clinton for --

LEMON: We only have Dennis for a short time.


PRAGER: Well, this is going to really either impress you or depress you. I was for going into Libya.


[01:24:55] PRAGER: I plead guilty. I was wrong. So, but I wasn't secretary of state. So it is important to assess her in that light. To me, the most damning question to be asked of Hillary Clinton and has been asked of Democrats, and they do start to get mealy-mouthed is, can you name anything she's achieved?


PRAGER: That's, to me, the biggest stumper. You can? All right, you're the first. Let me hear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, so the Iran deal, she was critical in making sure to bringing the table --

PRAGER: I agree with you. If you think that's an achievement, she achieved that. OK, that's fair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did yeoman's work around the world in stopping the trafficking of young women and girls internationally. You don't think that's an issue? I think that's on you, but that is incredibly important.

MCENANY: The facts cannot be ignored, Maria --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She also -- she also worked on a cease-fire between Israel and the Palestinians. Again, a big deal when you're talking about that international issue.

MCENANY: It's very simple -- you rewind eight years, the world was relatively secure. You fast forward eight years, the Middle East is on fire, ISIS has grown to 40,000 strong, we have a terrorist attack --

LEMON: How is that Hillary Clinton's fault?

MCENANY: -- seemingly every other day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That has nothing to do with George W. Bush going into Iraq and breaking it?

MCENANY: It has everything to do with Hillary Clinton.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, Kayleigh. This is what you use when you have absolutely zero way to compete with Hillary Clinton and the Democrats on the battlefield of ideas.

MCENANY: There's a reason that ISIS has invaded Libya. It's because there's no longer a government there. There is a reason ISIS has invaded Iraq. It's because --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree with that.

MCENANY: You have got to let me finish. I let you finish. It's because she did not leave a stay-behind force in the country. The Middle East is insecure because she made absolutely incompetent decisions, very, very simple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot put that completely at the feet of Hillary Clinton.

MCENANY: I put it at the feet of the government.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because if George W. Bush had not gone into Iraq, things would be very different.

LEMON: Dennis Prager, did you hear enough about -- tonight was supposed to be about working and putting people back to work, right?

PRAGER: That's an interesting question. It didn't follow that format. Look, it doesn't matter to me whether it follows a format or not.

LEMON: Did you hear enough about conservatism?

PRAGER: That's right. Were they effective speeches? Yes, there were some effective speeches. And that's really all that matters. And I just want to say something about the media and both, this is true for conservative and liberal media. I thought that Melania Trump gave a beautiful speech. That one paragraph was probably lifted by a speechwriter out of another speech -- was it two paragraphs? It was exceedingly stupid --

MCENANY: 70 words. PRAGER: if that is true, exceedingly incompetent and wrong, but that

isn't what Melania Trump and her speech were about. This was an effective -- you know what she was? And I love this word -- she radiated dignity. And so, listen to this. So his wife radiates dignity, his children radiate intelligence, common sense, and decency, so maybe, maybe he's not as bad as a lot of us thought. That's the point.

LEMON: So the plagiarism thing didn't bother you?

PRAGER: It bothers me, but it doesn't bout her. It doesn't bother me about her evening. Of course it bothers me.

LEMON: Let me ask you -- We don't know, we haven't gotten to the bottom of it, no one has gotten to the bottom of it. What if she was in some way responsible?

PRAGER: That would be more troubling. If she lifted something from another person knowingly and used those words and she did it, that would be trouble.

LEMON: But we don't know. Most people think it's probably a speechwriter's fault, but still, it has not been fully investigated. Thank you, Dennis Prager.

PRAGER: Great to be with you in person.

LEMON: You're much taller in person than on television. You're like this big.

PRAGER: I know, isn't that funny? I should stand up on TV.

LEMON: Everyone else, stay with me. When we come right back, much more. This is day two of the Republican convention live here in Cleveland. We're at the grill. CNN TONIGHT, this morning, something like that. We'll be right back.


[01:32:32] LEMON: The two were halfway through the Republican convention. Trump is now the official GOP now. Are we halfway through? I guess it is. Its day two.

Well, back with me now, my dream team. We let David Chalian back here in the Grill to hang out, because Dennis Prager tried to take your seat, David.

Let's talk about jobs because tonight was supposed to be our last night was supposed to be about jobs. Make America work again. We didn't really hear that much of it.

CHALIAN: Yeah, it wasn't a huge focus. Although they always sort of had the double meaning of make America work again when they presented the themes, was make America work again to get jobs back to work that way. But also make America work again for the American people in a competent way. And that I think was part of the negative frame on Hillary Clinton they were trying to build throughout the night. I mean, you did have a slew of prosecutors on that stage tonight.

LEMON: Chris Christie one of them.

CHALIAN: Chris Christie and former prosecutor Asa Hutchinson and Michael Mukasey the former attorney general. There was a lineup of prosecutors to make the case against Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: There's a word count that we use at words and phrases, of how often tonight that you could see Hillary Clinton was mentioned 79 times. Right? Jobs, 21 times.


LEMON: But you said work in the metaphorical sense not necessarily in the jobs sense, correct?

CHALIAN: Correct. It was both. I don't think they did as much on the economy and jobs as perhaps we might hear as we hear more from people who have done business with Donald Trump.

LEMON: Hillary Clinton was mentioned more times than Donald Trump.

CHALIAN: That is true. And I think that ...


CARPENTER: Unless the plan is to make Republicans prison guards to lock up all the Democrats, I don't see a jobs program that came out tonight. I mean, really, it was all about just prosecuting like you said. It's kind of a shame because there's a lot of tax reform we could talk about but that wasn't part of the plan.

LEMON: I think we need to get an Andy camp just for Andy Dean's face and smirks. He's like ...

MCENANY: Did you like that joke?

DEAN: I'm wondering who counts all these words so quickly. That just seems like a very ...

LEMON: There's an app for that and probably show Melania Trump that.

DEAN: Oh geez, Don, you're rough.

CHALIAN: We should say that those word counts are based on be prepared remarks so we have a little more time to count them because we get them a little earlier ...

DEAN: So the actual unscripted remarks could be very, very different. Its important accuracy of fact check shows that this is untrue.

LEMON: Your favorite moment, Andy fact, your favorite moment was the Lucifer moment.

DEAN: Ben Carson.

LEMON: Here it is.


[01:35:03] DR. BEN CARSON, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a nation, this is a nation were every coin in our pocket and every bill in our wallet says, in God we trust. So are we willing to elect someone as president who has as their role model somebody who acknowledge Lucifer think about that. The secular progressive agenda is antithetical to the principles of the founding of this nation. And if we continue to allow them to take God out of our lives, God will remove himself from us. We will not be blessed, and our nation will go down the tubes.


DEAN: Look.

LEMON: Andy.

DEAN: I love Ben Carson. I mean ...

LEMON: Well, come on. Your honest reaction to that.

DEAN: My honest reaction is that he's speaking from the heart. He feels that this person is very, very troubled and has very, very bad judgment, and in all seriousness, I believe that to be true, that Hillary Clinton has terrible judgment. That's what the night was about.

LEMON: Judge lest he'd be judged?

CARDONA: Here's what it looks like when ...

DEAN: Are we going through bible verses? Someone in the bar.

LEMON: I just saying. Someone who was a believer, who grew up, who is baptist and grew up going to catholic school and going to church, the last thing you do is question someone else.


DEAN: He's not saying she's going to hell. He thinks she shouldn't be president.


MCENANY: Mentioned that one month ago, Ben Carson is the one who stood up and said no one should question Hillary Clinton's faith. He said that categorically, no one should question her faith. Tonight that was a lighthearted joke for the audience because she did Saul Alinsky (ph) who did dedicate her book to Lucifer. It was a joke. This is a man who defended Hillary Clinton's faith. And I think it's wrong to sit here and laugh about Ben Carson who's one of most respected people in this country.

CARDONA: If it was a joke, clearly it was lost on the majority of the people who were watching. And to your point, he's a very well- respected surgeon. He should stick to surgery because he left his dignity at the door going into that hall tonight. He looked like a ...

LEMON: I did not realize it that it was a joke until Kayleigh who we were talking about it tonight and you explained it. It did not come off as a joke.

CARDONA: It didn't. It absolutely did not.

MCENANY: Well, hey Ben Carson is not the most skilled at, you know, his tone sometimes, he has one, you know, simple tone like that. But this is not just one of the most respected surgeons. This is one of the most respected men in this country.

CARPENTER: That's right.

MCENANY: And I don't like the way that people laugh at him and marginalize him. And it happens quite consistently.


MCENANY: He kind of asks for it.


LEMON: He kind of brings it on himself.

CARPENTER: No one is making him do that.

LEMON: Go ahead.

CARPENTER: Right. Here he's incredibly respected. If there's anybody that diminishes his stature, by running for president, and endorsing someone who calls you a pathological liar, maybe child molester then tries to convince the public that you stabbed your friend. Ben Carson has demeaned himself at the national -- it's sad to watch. Now, I admired him reduce to this.

LEMON: Yeah.

CARPENTER: It's very sad.


MCENANY: ... or held Donald Trump.

LEMON: Working to this panel over here to go to this guy. Do you have some breaking news or some new information about Ted Cruz? What do you have for us?

CHALIAN: At still about tomorrow night or later tonight.


CHALIAN: The Wednesday night. Dana Bash is now reporting that according to people familiar with it, to stay in Convention Hall later tonight. He's not going to formally endorse Donald as part of his remarks in his convention speech.

And as Dana reported out she -- her source are telling her that Ted Cruz is in this position of wanting to be there to show party unity, to show he doesn't harbor ill will in this process. And I'm sure adding my own editorial, doesn't make sure his prospects for the future continue.

But is not going to sort of abandon all of his diehard supporters who are still in the never-Trump movement and cross the (inaudible) into endorsing during the convention speech.

LEMON: Yeah. It said, he is at an odd place and wanting to show Republicans looking for unity that he doesn't have sour grapes and can move on, because this whole thing is supposed to be about unity. There are a lot people are saying, I'm not going to the convention. The Bush is among them. He's not, you know, digging his heels in that way.

CHALIAN: That's right.

LEMON: Yeah. And the governor is not going, Kasich is not going as well.

CHALIAN: Yeah, no. The home state governor will not be there.

LEMON: What do you guys think of it?

MCENANY: You make an interesting point that he's in an odd place, because he doesn't want to be the reason Hillary Clinton gets to the White House, which is why we saw this interesting, Michael Reagan tonight come out and say I'm voting on Donald Trump, I'm not going to be the reason Hillary Clinton gets into the White House. We've seen Mike Pence come on board.

CARPENTER: Ted Cruz was the reason Donald Trump doesn't beat Hillary, really, after that suspense have been watching the speakers he lined up. Ted Cruz is going to be the reason Donald Trump doesn't win?

MCENANY: I don't think he'll be the reason.

CARPENTER: I mean there are already setting the stage. It's hilarious to watch. But I applaud Cruz for showing up. I support not turn your back in the party.

[01:40:01] There's a lot of delegates who don't want to get distinction to Donald Trump's tactics, the way that he's campaigned in the primary and Cruz should go speak to them to say I'm still Republican, it didn't turn out how I like but I can still do part of the work.

LEMON: OK. You respect him for that. That he's not endorsing Donald Trump.


LEMON: Because you said something about Carson's dignity. Endorse the man and told him a liar. CARPENTER: Yeah. I mean, when you have a guy who just personally smears you in public and tells out and out lies.

LEMON: But still show up at the convention, you think, right?

CARPENTER: Oh, yeah. I mean there's other -- the party is not about Donald Trump, thank the Lord. There's other people in the hall who don't agree with Trump and you can't just turn your back on the party if you want to work toward a constructive future that, you know, in 2020, 2024 ...

LEMON: There are two big sides -- over everybody's head that says "Make America great again," that's kind of about Donald Trump.

CARPENTER: Hey listen, I'm a Republican, I'm not on board the Trump train. But I'm not going to leave, you know, the values I have because I hope this is a temporary blip we're going through.

LEMON: More from Cleveland when we come right back.


LEMON: Live at the CNN Grill here in Cleveland. I want to turn now to that Brouhaha over Melania Trump's speech last night which still has all of media loling.

CNN's Jeanne Moos reports on the Twitter storm and the mockery.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When Donald Trump pointed at his wife, little did he know how many other fingers would be pointing at her.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did Melania plagiarize Michelle?

[01:45:02] MOOS: All those back-to-back comparisons.

MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: That your word is your bond.


MOOS: Were bound to inspire an explosion on Twitter. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my speechwriters, copy and paste. Someone joked the keyboard used to write Melania's speech consisted of the ctrl, C, and V keys. A giggling Hillary asked Michelle Obama, did she just give your speech? Yes, and they loved it, replies Michelle. Plagiarism, when your term paper is due at 12:00 and it's 11:50.

OBAMA: That you treat people.

TRUMP: That you treat people. MOOS: Hashtag famousmelaniatrump "Became a thing." She was credited

for lines ranging from four scorn seven years ago to this is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. And while most critics and supporters agreed, it wasn't Melania's fault.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they say "Oh, plagiarism."

MOOS: She still ended up achieving the dubious distinction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's get to the donkey of the day, Melania Trump, give Melania Trump the biggest Yee-Haw please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are the champions.

MOOS: "The View" recreated the Donald's dramatic and foggy entrance right before he introduced his wife.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, HOST, THE VIEW: We will admit it, right out front, we plagiarized that entrance.

MOOS: Meanwhile, the group, queen, complained about the Republicans' unauthorized use of their music. We are the champions.

MOOS: And speaking of music, conspiracy theorists accused Melania of rick rolling the audience as she described her husband.

TRUMP: He will never, ever give up. And most importantly, he will never, ever let you down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never going to give you up, never going to let you down.

MOOS: Despite accusations of rick rolling and plagiarism, what can Melania do but turn the other cheek?

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


LEMON: Oh, everybody ready to react? We'll do it right after the break. Wow.


[01:51:08] LEMON: We're back now live at the CNN Grill in Cleveland. People still tonight about Melania Trump's turn in the spotlight and how her big speech went wrong.

Back with me now my political dream team. I want to say also have -- what do you want to say in the room? Someone you can honor.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the 92-year-old vetera ...

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: You know like a celebrity...


LEMON: Sidney Walt as 97-years-old one of the longest living World War II veterans.


LEMON: Thank you Sidney for your service.


LEMON: I think on the high end you can see him. Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. We're honored to have him here.

LEMON: Anyway, thank you. It's an honor to have him here.

So there he is. Oh Sidney, thank you. Thank you for your service.


LEMON: So let's get back to the program now. Let's talk about this Melania Trump. She was defended today by the Trump campaign. Look at this, the Trump campaign.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are common words and values. And she cares about her family of that -- of things like that. Probably this once again an example of one a woman threatens Hillary Clinton. How she tried to speak out to domineer and to take her down. It's not going to work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Melania Trump said you work hard for what you get in life.

John Legend said, work hard to be anything you want in life."

Kid Rock said, work hard to be anything you want in life.

Melania Trump said, the strength of your dreams and willingness to work with them. Twilight Sparkle from My Little Pony said, this is your dream anything you can do in your dream you can do now.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER (R)PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ninety-three percent of the speech is absolutely words that were different from Michelle Obama's speech eight years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you found that a speechwriter who done that. Would you fire that speechwriter?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, I agree with Rience Priebus. Whoever was the staff present who the speech. She be able (inaudible) she'll be fired.

LEMON: You know Corey, and I right. Corey is the only same person ...

CARPENTER: I'm from fairy Twilight Sparkle. My daughter has (inaudible) I personally going to with Fluttershy. That she's going to play right from My Little Pony.

LEMON: Maria, what do you think?

CARDONA: Look. I think she has been really -- of huge disservice has been done to her. In two ways, yes, I think she has been relying in two ways. The first one is when they defend her. They actually I think make it worse.

LEMON: Make it worse, yeah.

CARDONA: Because I don't think this was here fault. But I also think that she walked into it in that interview with Matt Lauer when she said she wrote most of the speech herself.

DEAN: I think it was a great defense. I mean serious to My Little Pony thing. And I mean that seriously because to fight the ridiculous which this whole thing is ridiculous. You come back with a ridiculous argument like My Little Pony.


DEAN: I'll get very specific as why is it ridiculous? Last night there was another radical Islamic terror attack in Germany ...

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. Andy, don't. No, no, no.

DEAN: That these people ...

LEMON: No, no, no. Stop, stop, stop. Stop, we're talking about what happened here at the convention center.


DEAN: Right.

LEMON: There were lots of other things that happened but we're focusing on this.

DEAN: Right.


DEAN: Don't, don't up this case.


DEAN: It's about my respective.


DEAN: The fact that this is a huge issue ...

LEMON: You're being intellectual dishonest.


LEMON: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. There are things that happened around the world every single moment ...

DEAN: On disagreement.

LEMON: You are pointing at something ...

DEAN: Correct.

LEMON: And obvious getting.

DEAN: And if we spent.

LEMON: This is important because, this is a man who's running for president of the United States.

DEAN: Right.

LEMON: She's also buying to be the first lady of the United States. Her whole thing is about trustworthy, truthfulness, being honest and if there is something that's dishonest about. That is a huge deal. Don't do that. Don't say that there's a -- this happened in the Middle East and ...

DEAN: I'm giving perspective as to why this whole thing is ridiculous.

LEMON: Then why are we even here? If this is such a small, if this is ...

DEAN: This is a free ...

LEMON: Hold on, hold: If this is not an issue. Why are we here? Why does she even speak if this is not a big deal?

[01:55:06] DEAN: To me it's not a big deal. To you it is. It's about once again where you sit.

LEMON: Then why are you here if this is not a big deal?

DEAN: Melanie's plagiarism?

LEMON: No, no, no. Where are you here at the convention and why is she is talking about it. Why she is top on that stage.

DEAN: Donald Trump can make America great again. And I think Hillary Clinton disaster.

LEMON: OK, all right.

CARDONA: And we're not talking about that.

DEAN: Do you think I'm off the skating.

CHALIAN: You are.

DEAN: And I think I'm being ...

LEMON: You're not making sense.

DEAN: I'm making an analogy about the ridiculousness of this whole thing. And it's ridiculous. See, she's smarting than me. Go ahead.

MCENANY: Andy make sense on that when the American voter goes to poll, this is not on their mind. What it's on their minds is exactly what Andy is saying and that's terrorism in Germany and Nice and San Bernardino and Orlando. The list has go and on and on and on.


LEMON: I think some people don't (inaudible) they're going to worry about jobs. Go ahead.

MCENANY: And job yes.

CARPENTER: And the next question I came the campaign come down to is, can you trust this person to lead the country?

LEMON: Right.

CARPENTER: If the campaign is going to lie about something very silly in double and triple down on that for no reason and blow it up and make it the biggest story for the president.

MCENANY: But you trust Hillary Clinton.

CARPENTER: That is ...


CARDONA: But this is not can do it.


CARDONA: Nothing to do with Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: Hang on producers. This is nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. Don't point to Hillary Clinton.

MCENANY: No. It doesn't.

CARDONA: It doesn't.

LEMON: When we're talking about Melania Trump and the campaign and whether or not the staff has something ...

MCENANY: Unforced error, no.

LEMON: ... it has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. CARDONA: But Don, in fact.

LEMON: If Hillary Clinton got up on stage and plagiarized some one we will be talking about it.

MCENANY: Exactly right.

CARDONA: Don, it does have ...


LEMON: It is absolutely bogus.

CARDONA: Don, it does have prompt and the last of professionalism of his campaign and in fact what it does. Is it reminds us talking about the ridiculous nature of what he does John Miller, let's remember John Miller, right? His P.R. person, which we all know it was him

DEAN: Right.

CARDONA: And he doubled down.

DEAN: And save money on P.R.


LEMON: All right, David Chalian, I know we were way over (inaudible).

DEAN: That's right, I had money on P.R.

CARDONA: And he denied it.

CHALIAM: The only I don't understand Andy and you're defending the defense from the campaign.

DEAN: Right.

CHALIAM: They're justifying what was lately obvious. I don't understand that is this strategic point of view I get mention Hillary Clinton. I get going with that strategy I don't understand why they justify the reality in fact ...

DEAN: OK. One quick point on this, is if there's this idea of a smoking gun. If somebody inserted this paragraph where there's Melania or somebody else. There's probably a team of people that worked on this.


DEAN: And nobody's published or where the heck it came from. Honestly I truly believe that.


CARDONA: Then say that.

DEAN: I just said it.

CARDONA: No, not ...


LEMON: Yet, you're sitting here in Cleveland this month is really important to you.

DEAN: Yeah.

LEMON: And a thousands of people because they gathered here at this arena.


LEMON: This must have some big important so don't say that it's not important that we've here and what's going on.

DEAN: I didn't say. It's not as important.

LEMON: OK. Well, the person who's going to lead the free would I think it's a very big deal.

DEAN: Right

LEMON: We'll be right back.

DEAN: We agree.