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Trump Encourages Russia to Hack Clinton's Emails; Ehud Barak on Israeli-Palestinian Relations; Israeli Government Responds to Barak Comments; France Focuses on Unity. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired July 27, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:03] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And all night long, we'll be bringing you the latest from the Democratic National Convention. Our special
coverage continues right now.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As Hillary Clinton makes history shattering that glass ceiling, her rival Donald Trump
calls on Russia to hack her e-mails. Former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta tells me he's now gone, quote, "Beyond the pale."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON PANETTA, FMR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: That kind of statement only reflects the fact that he truly is not qualified to be president of the
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And as France remembers its latest victims of terror, how the French media are taking a new and controversial stand.
Good evening everyone and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Now he promises to, quote, "Make America Great Again." But
Donald Trump tonight stands accuse of compromising his loyalty to his own country and also seeming to engage in an attempted conspiracy against his
country with a foreign power.
In the words of my guest tonight, former CIA Director Leon Panetta. In an extraordinary television moment, Trump tonight invited Russia to hack into
the e-mails of Hillary Clinton and release them to the public, so affectively encouraging a foreign cyber attack on a whole new target. This
after the alleged Russian DNC hack.
Trump's astonishing move comes less than a day after Hillary Clinton made history officially becoming America's first female party nominee for
president. She made this virtual appearance on stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And I can't believe we just put the biggest crack in that glass ceiling yet. Thanks to you and
to everyone who's fought so hard to make this possible. This is really your victory. This is really your night.
And if there are any little girls out there who stayed up late to watch, let me just say, I may become the first woman president, but one of you is
next. Thank you all. I can't wait to join you in Philadelphia. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And to talk about Hillary verses Trump for president and also the dramatic new escalation of cyber threats, Leon Panetta joins me. He is
the former secretary of defense and the former CIA director.
AMANPOUR: Secretary Panetta, welcome to the program.
PANETTA: Nice to be with you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Secretary, the most extraordinary thing just happened. Donald Trump came on the air just moments ago to deny that Russia is trying to
help him. Obviously the Kremlin has denied that they are interfering or had anything to do with the hack. But Donald Trump looked straight into
the of the barrel of the camera and he actually said this to Russia. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Russia, if you're listening, I hope that you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. I think
you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let's see if that happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So he was referring to the missing Hillary Clinton e-mails allegedly. What do you make of that?
PANETTA: I find those kinds of statements to be totally outrageous. Because you've got now a presidential candidate who is in fact asking the
Russians to engage in American politics. And I just think that that's beyond the pale. There are a lot of concerns I have with his qualities of
leadership, or lack thereof, and I think that kind of statement only reflects the fact that he truly is not qualified to be President of the
AMANPOUR: But beyond that, I mean, in any other presidential campaign, that very notion of asking for foreign government help, isn't that -- I
mean, does that border on legality? Is that OK according to American election policy or just American law?
PANETTA: Well, I don't know about the legalities of this issue and what is involved in terms of the laws that we have in place, but just from a pure
position of common sense, no presidential candidate who's running to be President of the United States ought to be asking a foreign country,
particularly Russia, to engage in hacking or intelligence efforts to try to determine what the Democratic candidate may or may not be doing.
[14:05:10] This just is beyond my own understanding. The responsibilities that candidates have to be loyal to their country and to their country
alone, not to reach out to somebody like Putin and Russia and try to engage them in an effort to try to, in effect, conduct a conspiracy against
This is just -- again I think it just reflects the irresponsibility of Donald Trump in the way that he focuses on the job of President of the
United States. He just doesn't understand the implications that that job involves, particularly with regards to the rest of the world.
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you a substantive policy question of U.S.-Russia relations right now? You know that the Obama administration has tried to
suggest that there should be some working together with Russia over Syria.
Now, the Pentagon doesn't like this at all. What are your thoughts, and how would you describe Russia vis-a-vis the U.S. right now?
PANETTA: I think the important thing in dealing with Russia is to always deal with Russia from strength and not from weakness. And for that reason,
I think it's important that the United States have a clear strategy as to how we're going to deal with ISIS, how we're going to deal with the
situation in Syria, and proceed with that strategy.
If the Russians want to support that strategy, fine. If they don't, then we are going to focus on achieving the mission that the President of the
United States of America has set out with regards to those issues.
I think it's important for us to be very clear-minded about the strategy that we want to achieve there and not simply stand back and hope that
somehow the Russians are going to be able to perform and try to assist us when the evidence is clear that, in the past, they have basically focused
on their own interests, not the interest of the United States.
AMANPOUR: Well, let me ask you, because you're obviously in Philadelphia and you are supporting Hillary Clinton for president. Just your views on
the fact that she's the first historic female nominee for president, but also in terms of measuring up to the major challenges ahead, whether it's
Syria, whether it's ISIS, this massive spate of attacks that we're seeing in Europe right now.
How confident are you of what she might do to address these challenges?
PANETTA: You know, I've been in public life over 50 years. And I have served with nine Presidents of the United States, both Republican and
Democrat. And whether you agree or disagree with those presidents, they all were experienced, and they all understood the importance of our role in
This is the first election in my lifetime where there is only one candidate who has the experience, the qualities, the understanding of our role in the
world, that is running for president.
She is somebody who understands the challenges that we confront. She knows the world. She's dealt with world leaders. She's dealt with crises. She
is smart. She is willing to listen. She has all of the qualities that I've seen in good presidents that have served our country.
Whereas she is running against somebody that's totally unqualified, that has no experience, that has no sense of America's role in the world. And I
just don't think, for anyone who's concerned about protecting our national security and protecting the defense of the United States of America, there
really is no choice here. Hillary Clinton is the only responsible candidate running for President of the United States.
AMANPOUR: Secretary Panetta, thank you for joining me from Philadelphia.
PANETTA: Thank you very so much. Nice to talk with you.
AMANPOUR: And Leon Panetta has more on Donald Trump's national security experience or lack thereof, as he says, and his relationship with Russia.
That's online at Amanpour.com.
Well, the Democratic convention is proving to be so far a model of party unity compared to the Republicans where Senator Ted Cruz refuse to endorse
his rival Donald Trump in Cleveland. Last night, Senator Bernie Sanders, though, took the floor in the Vermont delegation to nominate Hillary
Clinton like she nominated her rival Barack Obama eight years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:10:05] BERNIE SANDERS (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Madam chair, I move that the convention suspend the procedural rules, I move that all
votes, all votes cast by delegates be reflected in the official record, and I move that Hillary Clinton be selected as the nominee of the Democratic
Party for President of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And when we come back, a little less unity overseas.
Israel's Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak makes a fiery denunciation of Israeli policy. That's next.
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. After the despicable murder of Father Jacques Hamel at his altar, the French philosopher Bernard-Henri
Levy says that "France needs to adapt some of Israel tactics against terror." He said, "Ordinary people in France have to conduct their lives
knowing that this threat will be around for a long time."
But when it comes to present day existential threats to Israel, the Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak told me they don't even come from ISIS or Iran.
He insists it's the current government's refusal to forge peace with the Palestinian authority and the threat is a one nation-state that -- well,
sorry, a one state nation that could spell the end for a democratic and Jewish state.
I caught up with Barak in New York, and today this full-page ad appears in "The New York Times," quote, "Israel's Security Chiefs Agree: Separation
into Two State is in Israel's Vital Security Interest."
AMANPOUR: Ehud Barak, welcome to the program. The Middle East peace process used to be front and center all the time. And it has just gone
away from the global view. What should the next U.S. president whoever he or she is, do about it?
EHUD BARAK, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think we have several issues with the new American president. Number one, the issue of the QME. The
ten years financial support of security of Israel. That should be decided immediately if they had not been completed during the Obama administration.
They only have to sit down behind closed doors and discuss the Iranian issue. What might be turning point in this issue? What might create a
real reason to contemplate sanctions once again?
What would bring the military option to the table once again and hopefully nothing of this kind will happen. But we have to be prepared. And of
course, I think that it was the new American president, Israeli prime minister should once again behind-closed-door at least clarify. What
Israel wants? Where are we heading? What our objectives in the next steps vis-a-vis the Palestinians?
AMANPOUR: So what are your objectives in the next steps?
BARAK: Oh, on this regard, the head of security, my own government, selected government, fully legitimate but it's a right-wing government that
I believe suspect our interest in basically continuation of extrapolation of the present situation which is a one state or heading toward the one
state solution against of the declaration or form for the opposite.
I think that this reality of extremely dangerous form Israel because it will end up with one state from the Mediterranean to the River of Jordan,
with millions of Palestinians within it which will make it inevitably, either non-Jewish or non-Democratic.
[14:15:16] If those Palestinians can vote to the Knesset, it will become binational state overnight and within a generation or so, a binational
state with Muslim majority and probably a civil war between its two different peoples If they cannot vote, that's not the democracy anymore.
AMANPOUR: What effect is that having on the ground? Because we read that there's quite a lot of friction between the security and military segment
of Israel and the prime minister and some of the civilian cabinet?
BARAK: I don't underestimate Netanyahu. He's a serious person. He was elected more than once. He's twice to do what he believes is good for
Israel. But having said that, in the last year or probably two years, a (INAUDIBLE) both the government and himself is the result of internal
We've seen Likud with extremist, using the laws of the primaries hijacked, the Likud Central Committee. And they basically pushed out anyone who
believed in liberal democracy, and they -- in a way, I call it hijacked.
And Likud -- and as a result of the right-wing government, which drifted into a mindset of pessimism, passivity, fear and victimhood. Even
Lieberman and clearly Netanyahu say we are for two-state solution. But the hidden agenda as people all around the world believe right now is that the
real agenda is never Palestinian state. So with this one state agenda, basically, which is a hidden agenda, it goes against the Israeli law. It
goes against international law. It goes against the judgment of half of our Republic and so on. So there is indeed to do something about this.
AMANPOUR: Usually in Israel, the prime minister and the government respects the military and security forces. You're a former general. Other
security and military people telling Prime Minister Netanyahu of the dangers as you outline them?
BARAK: They're telling not just the prime minister, they're telling the whole public. They're telling the government all these elements. The
institutions, which care about Israel. They propose to the government several times, find a way to reduce tensions with the Palestinian
authority. They are part of the solution. The commencing part of the problem. They are part of the solution.
Rather than having a one state from the Mediterranean to the river, which inevitably include millions of Palestinians who are hurdle against their
personal and national aspirations.
So that's -- everyone tells it. So why the hell they don't accept it? It's the hidden ideological agenda. It's nothing to do with --
AMANPOUR: But why? I don't understand why they would do that if it threatens the very state of Israel --
BARAK: I'll tell you, because these governments was hijacked by extreme right-wing elements, took over Likud and then took over the government.
They have now a government with only right-wing parties. And their real agenda, when you corner them, some of them are telling that -- the very
intelligent people who push them to the corner, asked them how can you avoid this slippery slope that they have now discard, they look to heaven.
AMANPOUR: You look very, very agitated. I mean, are you really, really very worried?
BARAK: Yes, I'm deeply worried. And I don't have to see it coming here in order to realize something dangerous is gathering. A gathering storm
And whenever I warned Netanyahu and Lieberman against all these frightening campaigns, when they describe everyone as the new Hitler, Hitler du Jour.
So it's a little bit exaggeration that the cheapening of the holocaust. With all respect -- due respect to the Iranians -- and I was probably more
hawkish that Netanyahu about this issue -- none of the threats that are described as the Hitler du Jour is an existential threat to Israel anymore.
And moreover --
AMANPOUR: That's a very important point you just make.
BARAK: Yes, yes. But it's reality. None of these existential threats that's present in the foreseeable future to Israel. It doesn't mean that
there are no threats. It doesn't mean that we don't have real missions, but Israel is the strongest country as I mentioned earlier in the whole
wider Middle East.
AMANPOUR: If none of those are existential threats to Israel in your view, what is the existential threat to Israel?
BARAK: Well, the real, most apparent threat right now is our inability to put a wedge on this slippery slope toward one state. One state nation cuts
under the very foundations of the Zionist dream and project.
[14:20:06] Take, for example, ISIS. ISIS is very effective in throwing fear, or terror, in Brussels or Paris or Nice or even on American soil.
But, basically they are helpless vis-a-vis the IDF. They can do nothing. They're 50,000 people riding on Toyota pickups with World War II machine
guns. It's not a threat to Israel.
AMANPOUR: When you make this impassioned defense of trying to get a two state solution, I have to keep thinking back of the year 2000 when you were
very, very close to it with President Clinton at Camp David.
What do you think when you wake up every morning and you recall how much you were willing to give as the Israeli prime minister in order to have
that two-state solution?
BARAK: Well, I was ready to go to the extent which was needed and it failed because of the fact I was not ready to take it even as a basis for
And it exposed him in a way and doomed this fate in a way. It also caused me, my leadership in a way, but I don't care. It's, in a way -- that's the
price of knowing what reality we are facing. But I said that even if it take 5, 15 or 50 years, when the time will come to strike a deal, you will
need magnifying glass to see the difference, but nothing will really change except for more graves on both sides of the (INAUDIBLE). Basically,
nothing will change.
AMANPOUR: Ehud Barak, thank you very much, indeed.
BARAK: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: We have a long-standing invitation for an interview with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Instead, tonight, his spokesperson David Keyes came on
to offer a rebuttal from Tel-Aviv.
AMANPOUR: The central thesis of former Prime Minister Barak is that Prime Minister Netanyahu obviously, legitimately, democratically elected prime
minister of Israel trying as Barak says to do good things and everything he can for Israel.
He's saying, nonetheless, others have turned it into a right-wing extreme sort of project with a hidden agenda that leads to a one-state solution,
and asking why Prime Minister Netanyahu does not listen to the entreaties of the entire defense and security and intelligence community. Those are
the specific questions that I'm trying to get an answer to.
DAVID KEYES, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER'S SPOKESPERSON: Well, as you know, Christiane, there's a diverse array of opinions, both in the security
establishment and amongst the people of Israeli.
But Prime Minister Netanyahu is the democratically-elected leader of Israel and the buck stops with him. You can't negotiate with yourself so despite
the greatest of intentions, the most sincere of desires to engage in peace negotiations, the same barrier to peace that existed when former Prime
Minister Barak tried to solve this problem, and when former Prime Minister Olmert tried to solve this problem, and when former Prime Minister Sharon
tried to solve this problem.
The problem is not the Israeli prime minister whose desires of peace should constantly calls to the Palestinian leadership to meet and to sit down.
The problem is that the other side says no. The problem is that they're teaching their own children that the occupation so called began in 1948 on
Israel's very first day of statehood.
This isn't about the West Bank. It's not about Gaza. It's not about a state beside Israel. The Palestinian desire and aim remains to this day
sadly and tragically, not a state next to Israel but a state instead of Israel.
AMANPOUR: You can watch more of what David Keyes told me.
Plus, our extended interview with Ehud Barak online at Amanpour.com.
And when we come back, we turn to France still reeling from recent attacks. We imagine cutting off the oxygen of publicity that these killers crave so
much. That's next.
[14:26:16] AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, a howl of anguish has erupted across Europe during the streak of violent murders by individuals desperate
for the spotlight. We imagine a world cutting off their power.
French media eclipse these violent wannabe heroes by making them disappear.
BFM, LeMonde and West France are all now refusing to publish images of the killers with radio station Europe One refusing to even name them.
And, today, there's been a French focus on unity. President Francois Hollande meeting with religious leaders across faith to reassure them and
to ask them all to join in what he says will be a long struggle.
He also attended a memorial mass for Father Jacques Hamel in Notre Dame Cathedral. The pope also spoke out publicly against these vile murders
particularly this one. But he insisted that strength lies in togetherness, not division. He said this while traveling to celebrate World Youth Day in
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE FRANCIS: There's a war for domination of people. This is the war. Anyone who thinks I'm talking of a religious war, no. All the religions
people want peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And that is it for our program tonight.
Remember, you can always listen to our podcast. You can see us online at Amanpour.com and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thank you for
watching. And good-bye from London.