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GOP Candidate in Feud with War Hero's Father; Republican Muslims Stay With Trump Despite Rhetoric; Donald Trump Denies Ties to Russia; Clinton's Rust Belt Bus Tour Rolls Through Ohio. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 31, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:00] KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF ARMY CAPTAIN KILLED IN IRAQ WAR: Have you even read the United States Constitution?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

KHAN: I will -- I will gladly lend you my copy. In this document look for the words -- look for the words liberty and equal protection of law.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

KHAN: Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery? Go and look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America? You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Now Donald Trump reacted in an interview that aired this morning with George Stephanopoulos on ABC. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: How would you answer that father? What sacrifice have you made for your country?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I have worked very, very hard. I have created thousands and thousands of jobs. Tens of thousands of jobs. I think --

STEPHANOPOULOS: Those are sacrifices?

TRUMP: Oh, sure, I think they're sacrifices. I think when I can employ thousands and thousands of people, take care of their education, take care of so many things, even in military, I mean, I was very responsible, along with a group of people for getting the Vietnam Memorial built in downtown Manhattan, in which to this day people thank me for. I raised and I have raised millions of dollars for the vets. I'm helping the vets a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: So this back and forth between a war hero's father and the Republican billionaire running for president is front and center right now in the race for the White House. There is no question about that. Khizr Khan, the father, sat down this morning, with our Jim Acosta and he sent a very strong message to Republican House leader Paul Ryan and Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHAN: This person is total incapable of empathy. I want his family to counsel him, teach him some empathy, he will be a better person if he could become. But he is a black soul. And this is totally unfit for the leadership of this beautiful country.

Two things are absolutely necessary in any leader, or any person that aspires, wishes to be a leader, that is moral compass and second is empathy. This candidate is void of both traits that are necessary for the stewardship of this country.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What do you want Republican leaders to do, Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan?

KHAN: To repudiate him. They have suggested, they have sat with him, as we are aware in public. They have advised him, they have counseled him. Entire leadership of the Republican Party. I know Republicans are as patriotic as Democrats, as independents, but he had promised them to mend his ways -- divisive ways, harmful ways, hurtful manner and policies. Yet he comes back again on the same thing.

It is majority leader's and speaker's moral and ethical obligation to not worry about the words, but repudiate him, withdraw the support.

This election will pass, but history will be written. The lapse of modern courage will hold them -- will remain burden on their souls for their leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Moments ago, House Speaker Paul Ryan weighed in on all of this. I'll get to that in a moment. Let's bring in our panel, "TIME" magazine political reporter Zeke Miller, Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker" Ryan Lizza is also with us. Donald Trump surrogate, Boris Epshteyn, a former aid to the 2008 McCain-Palin campaign, and former Michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm, a senior adviser of Correct the Record, a super PAC that supports Hillary Clinton.

A lot to parse through here, a lot to unpack. Let me first read this statement that just came in from House Speaker Paul Ryan. "America's greatness is built on the principles of liberty and preserved by the men and women who wear the uniform to defend it. As I have said on numerous occasions a religious test for entering our country is not reflective of these fundamental values. I reject it. Many Muslim Americans have served valiantly in our military made the ultimate sacrifice. Captain Khan was one such brave example. His sacrifice and that of Khizr and Ghazala Khan should always be honored. Period." [17:05:05] All right. Let's talk about all of this. And Boris, let

me go to you first because you're a surrogate for the campaign. You're officially with the campaign.

Look, this is Paul Ryan coming out and, you know, really not mincing words here. And making a statement, reacting to that father. And it sounds like saying, I am with you. What's your reaction?

BORIS EPSHTEYN, DONALD TRUMP SURROGATE: Well, he's not saying he's repudiating Donald Trump. Paul Ryan is in no way saying that he is going to abandon his support or whatever it is that Mr. Khan --

HARLOW: So how did you read it?

EPSHTEYN: What he's saying is that he disagrees with a certain policy. Paul Ryan disagrees with that certain policy. And so let's go back to the larger point here. The larger point is the Trump campaign, and all Americans of course have utmost respect for Captain Khan and for his parents, but this should not be politicized.

Mr. Khan is going out now on political networks and political shows, and politicizing the issue, and using personal attacks against Donald Trump. Saying things like black soul. If we went out there and said that about Hillary Clinton, there'd be a huge uproar. So we should be talking about the real issue. The real issue is radical Islamic jihadists. Those are the ones that actually killed Mr. Khan's son. And Donald Trump is the one that's trying to prevent that, prevent ISIS from spreading.

HARLOW: Let me just push back, Boris. To not politicize it, do you think that perhaps this is something Donald Trump just should not have reacted to at all? Should have let this one sit and said, this comes from a grieving father, and I'm not going to react to his criticism this time?

EPSHTEYN: See, the speech at the DNC was full of personal attacks, saying things like Donald Trump hasn't read the constitution, Donald Trump is extremely well-educated and anyone who's educated has read the constitution. Today's speech -- today's appearances were full of personal attacks. Of course Donald Trump has the opportunity and the right to respond, just as any one of us would want to respond and defend ourselves against those personal attacks and again turn the issue to the biggest question in hand, how are we going to defend ourselves. Clinton and Obama have failed, Trump will not.

HARLOW: So, Zeke, let me go to you because we know that in the past Donald Trump has made a point of courting veterans, he's raised money for them, he stood, you know, next to them at numerous events. This is not good optics for him, that's clear, but do you think it will hurt him? Because nothing, nothing has hurt him up until now. Does this just make the voters that didn't like him not like him even more or does this tip the balance against him?

ZEKE MILLER, "TIME" MAGAZINE POLITICAL REPORTER: That's, you know, in a way been the billion-dollar question throughout this entire election. HARLOW: Right.

MILLER: Nothing has taken him down, but this might be the type of thing that does sort of strike at the heart of the sort of core Trump constituency often, you know, Trump has appealed -- you know, he's appealed to veterans, he's appealed to the white working class vote. Attacking the parents of a fallen soldier, a Golden Star family is the type of thing --

EPSHTEYN: Attack is a harsh word. I'm sorry to interrupt but attack is a very harsh word.

HARLOW: Let Zeke get his point in here.

MILLER: Boris, let's be very clear here. What Donald Trump did immediately after is he asked -- he questioned why -- why Mrs. Khan didn't speak, and sort of either that's being callous towards Mrs. Trump or that's a dog whistle for two people who have some sort of bias. That's the only way to read that. And from a political stand point, it's a dumb move to make that argument to attack those folks. It's one thing to say, you know, I respect them, I respect their sacrifice. That's what he did two days into the scandal. From a political standpoint, what he did was -- was an attack and then he had to walk it back.

HARLOW: All right, so, Ryan Lizza, to you. John McCain's daughter Megan tweeted this about the controversy. She said, "I would ask what kind of barbarian would attack the parents of a fallen soldier, but oh, yes, it's the same person who attacked POWs." Talking about how John McCain, you know, question the war hero status of her father and hasn't apologize to this day. That coming from a Republican. Do you think that tips the balance for any Republican?

RYAN LIZZA, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORKER: I think so. I mean, you see Lindsey Graham, obviously no great fan of Donald Trump.

HARLOW: Right.

LIZZA: Coming out, making a statement, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell. And Boris was right about Paul Ryan. He did not condemn -- he did not condemn Trump. He stated where he disagreed with the policies and I think for a lot of people that might not be good enough.

Yes, look, and I would disagree, Poppy, with the question you asked Zeke that nothing has affected Donald Trump. We're in sort of an OK economy, not that great. We have a Democratic Party trying to get a third term and we have a very weak candidate on the Democratic side. This should be an easy election for any Republican and the fact that Trump is struggling, you know, to take control of the race, I think shows that the statements that he's had and the kind of candidate that he is, has actually taken a toll.

His numbers with Hispanics, his numbers with women, his numbers with African-Americans are dismal. So I do think that actually with the general electorate, if the Republicans had nominated a more traditional candidate, they'd be doing a whole lot better against a weak candidate like Hillary Clinton, so I disagree with that.

And yes, look, Republicans have been waiting, they have been holding their breath for months, wondering if Donald Trump was going to be a little bit more traditional in the general election and obviously all the evidence is that he's not. We're going to have controversy and controversy like this through the next 100 days. I mean, that's as clear as day.

[17:10:07] HARLOW: Governor Granholm, what's your response to what Ryan Lizza just said? I mean, he said you've got a weak Democratic candidate and this should have been an easy election for the Republicans?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, SR. ADVISER, CORRECT THE RECORD SUPER PAC: Well, I disagree that we have a weak Democratic candidate. But I do know that Donald Trump has a -- he's got a -- he obviously has a huge narcissism complex that he has to respond to every single thing that is said about him, and the fact that he can't distinguish a Gold Star family from any other type of perceived insult to him tells you that this man is so utterly thin skinned that he is incapable of governing.

And I would say that, you know, the Khan family represents the best of what there is in America, the fact that they come to this country, that they raise a son who's so patriotic, that he chooses to serve our nation and to give his life in service. And Donald Trump can't even see that. When Mr. Khan said, what have you sacrificed, I mean, Donald Trump received what, four deferments so that he wouldn't have to sacrifice at all himself?

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: I wouldn't bring that up if I were a Clinton supporter, Governor. Bill Clinton has a very checked history on service.

GRANHOLM: I'm sorry?

EPSHTEYN: The Clintons have not served the military. I would not bring that up if I were a Clinton supporter.

GRANHOLM: I'm not talking about Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton is not running for president. Bill Clinton is not running for president.

EPSHTEYN: Has Hillary Clinton served in the military?

GRANHOLM: I'm talking about Donald Trump. Donald Trump -- and Hillary Clinton, are you talking about her serving in the military when women were not allowed to serve when she was at that?

EPSHTEYN: She has not.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: This was -- decades ago during the draft.

GRANHOLM: She's been serving her country her entire life. That's the whole point. EPSHTEYN: Neither Hillary nor Bill Clinton have served in the

military.

LIZZA: Poppy, let me --

GRANHOLM: Hillary Clinton has served her country her entire life.

EPSHTEYN: To getting rich.

GRANHOLM: Her entire life has been devoted to serving others. Unlike Donald Trump whose entire life has been devoted to serving himself. When he had a choice to serving, he chose not to.

EPSHTEYN: The Clintons came out of the White House poor, now they have hundreds of millions of dollars.

HARLOW: All right. Stay with me. I want to get a break in here. Ryan Lizza, I think you were trying to get in there. You can get in on the other side of this. So stay with me because we have a lot ahead and a lot clearly to parse with all of this.

Coming up this hour, you will hear that entire interview with Khizr Khan only right here on CNN.

Also ahead, the conversation continues, I'll speak with Muslim Americans on both sides of this, one pro-Trump, one against Trump, about the latest. What's the reaction?

Also Khan's comments at the DNC stole the show, no question. How is Hillary Clinton now on the trail right there responding to the controversy? She just spoke about it. We'll bring that to you, ahead.

And later this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have nothing to do with Putin. I have never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him. I was in Russia, I was in Moscow recently, and I spoke indirectly and directly with President Putin who could not have been nicer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So which is it? Do Trump and Putin have a relationship? Have they ever met or spoken or not? We will look at the history between the Russian president and the Republican candidate for the highest office in the land. Straight ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:14] HARLOW: Donald Trump today saying he is being attacked by the parents of a U.S. military officer who died fighting in the Iraq war. He's talking about this moment, you'll remember it from this week, when Mr. And Mrs. Khizr Khan, Muslim Americans, whose Army captain son, was killed by a suicide bomber in Iraq in 2004. They appeared at the DNC and they slammed Trump for, quote, "sacrificing nothing."

Captain Khan's father appeared this morning on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" and he called the Republican candidate a black soul who lacks compassion and is unfit for leadership.

You just heard our political analysts weigh in on how they think this may or may not affect the election. But for my next guest, this is personal.

Saba Ahmed is the founder of the Republican Muslim Coalition and Dean Obedallah is a Sirius XM Radio Host and "Daily Beast" contributor and has a very scathing article Tea Party Donald Trump on all of this.

So let's dive right in. Thank you for both for being here.

Saba, let me begin with you. As the founder of the Republican Muslim Coalition, what's your reaction to what we've heard Donald Trump say, first telling George Stephanopoulos that he indeed did sacrifice, talked about creating many jobs, et cetera, and then this back and forth on Twitter to the Khan family. What's your take?

SABA AHMED, FOUNDER, REPUBLICAN MUSLIM COALITION: Well, obviously Donald Trump is the reason Mr. Khan got to the stage at the DNC. Democrats are misusing Muslims to attack Trump. And I think we need to understand the political dynamics behind this. Yes, he's gaining a lot of political capital on both sides of the aisle. I was glad to see Paul Ryan speak in support, Mitch McConnell, all the Republican leadership, obviously values every single person serving in our armed forces.

We have thousands of Muslims serving in the U.S. Army and we appreciate of their sacrifice. At the same time I don't think we should politicize the issue and attack Donald Trump, and his black soul, I mean, this sort of personal attack is not the right way to do, we have serious challenges and I think we need to defend the country as best as possible.

HARLOW: Does it make your case harder to your fellow Muslims to support Donald Trump?

AHMED: Of course, yes, I think many Muslims question why would you support Trump. But I think the question here is Democrats have been silent for years and right now they're only bringing out Muslims because they want to attack Trump. I mean, this is political gain. This has nothing to do with what the sacrifice was or whoever.

We need strong leadership in the White House and that's why we're supporting a Republican in this November.

HARLOW: So, Dean, your piece in the "Daily Beast," I just read it, you blast Trump for this. But what do you say to Saba who said this is being done for political gain? And it sounds like, Saba, correct me If I'm wrong, you're still very much in support of Donald Trump and say he will be the best commander-in-chief, the best president for Muslim Americans. So, Dean, what's your response to that? DEAN OBEDALLAH, COMEDIAN AND DAILY BEAST CONTRIBUTOR: I think that

with the RNC they had the mother of one of the people who lost in Benghazi, they had numerous victims of illegal -- undocumented immigrants who committed crimes on their stage. Talk about politicizing tragedy for gain and vote -- the RNC wrote the book.

Let's also be honest, President Obama stood with the Muslim community the last few years, he's been reaching out to us, he wanted to make his first mosque visit, and Hillary Clinton's record in pushing back against the rhetoric of Donald Trump has been fabulous, including daringly after the Orlando shooting, she made a speech in which she talked and touted Muslims. There was no political benefit for her to do that in the days after Orlando. But she did to push against Donald Trump's hateful rhetoric.

Donald Trump has made demonizing Muslims and Latinos staples of his campaign. And thankfully for us we found out something special. Saba, you should be happy, too, about this. Donald Trump thought he could bully the Khans because they're Muslims.

[17:20:02] But America said no to it. And that's a great thing for Muslims and anyone who values religious liberty in this country.

HARLOW: Saba --

AHMED: I disagree.

HARLOW: Go ahead.

AHMED: I think Hillary Clinton is benefiting a lot from any time there is a Muslim tragedy that brings up -- I think that would be unfruitful to say DNC is copying RNC tactics, but I think at the same time we need to go after Republican policies that make America stronger and I don't see a strong leadership coming of the Democrats.

HARLOW: I'd like you both --

AHMED: They failed --

HARLOW: I'd like you both before I lose you to listen to something else that Donald Trump said in that interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC because he was speaking about the wife, that we all saw standing there, Ghazala Khan, and why she did not speak at the DNC when she was standing at the podium next to her husband. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: His wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say, she probably maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say, you tell me, but plenty of people have written that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Saba, what do you think he meant by that, maybe she wasn't allowed? AHMED: Obviously she spoke out. I think he was trying to target that

Muslim women stay silent.

HARLOW: Right.

AHMED: But I think you know --

HARLOW: But what do you mean -- I mean, as a Muslim woman?

AHMED: Well, we're speaking out and we're supporting Donald Trump. I think he obviously has issues with Islam and Muslims, and that's exactly what we're trying to change. We need to educate him, get involved with his campaign, and change his mind set about Muslim women, Muslim men, Muslims in general. I don't want to see this type of rhetoric coming out of the Trump campaign and I hope Donald Trump will stop politicizing the issue and misusing Muslims.

HARLOW: But this has not swayed your willingness -- your desire to see him as the next president. Is that correct?

AHMED: No, I still think he would be a great president and I'm really looking forward to seeing him win this November.

HARLOW: And Dean, final thoughts on that comment?

OBEDALLAH: I think it's hard pressed if you're a minority in this country to support Donald Trump after his history of demonizing Latinos, Muslims, African-Americans, not standing up against the Klan when he was asked about it. The list goes on. His sexist comments.

HARLOW: He came out after that interview and said I disavow.

OBEDALLAH: Right. After being (INAUDIBLE) the media. The same thing here. Donald Trump here showed his true colors. I thought he was running a despicable campaign. He's reached a new low with this. This violent attacks on the Khan family and equating himself to someone who served in the military, because his sacrifice is flying around in a luxury jet and standing in plush boardroom, it's an insult to every men and women who's ever put on a uniform to defend this nation and every Gold Star family. That's the message Donald Trump has sent this weekend loud and clear to America.

HARLOW: Saba Ahmed, Dean Obedallah, it's important. I wish we had more time. Thank you both for coming on.

AHMED: Thanks.

HARLOW: Still to come, much ahead, Trump and Putin, a question. Do they or don't they have a relationship? If so, what exactly is it? We will dive into the business ties that Trump may or may not have to Russia and Putin straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:34] HARLOW: Right now many are asking, what exactly is Donald Trump's relationship with Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin? Trump insists they do not have a relationship. He said as much during an interview this morning with ABC's George Stephanopoulos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: What exactly is your relationship with Vladimir Putin?

TRUMP: I have no relationship with -- have no relationship with Putin.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you have no relationship with Putin, then why did you say in 2013, I do have a relationship, in 2014 I spoke --

TRUMP: Because he has said nice things about me over the years. I remember years ago he said something -- many years ago, he said something very nice about me. I said something good about him when Larry King was on. This was a long time ago.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet you said for three years, '13, '14, and '15 that you did have a relationship with him.

TRUMP: No. Look. What do you call a relationship? I mean, he treats me with great respect.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm asking you.

TRUMP: I have no relationship with Putin. I don't think I've ever met him. I never met him. I don't think I've ever met him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You would know if you did.

TRUMP: I think so. Yes, I think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So Hillary Clinton came out and she blasted Trump for his comments specifically the one about Russia trying to find Clinton's missing e-mails. He said for his part that he was being sarcastic, but here's what Clinton said this morning on FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think if you take his encouragement that the Russians hack into American e-mail accounts, if you take his quite excessive praise for Putin, his absolute allegiance to a lot of Russian wish list foreign policy positions, his effort then to try to distance himself from that backlash, which rightly came not just the Democrats, but Republicans, independents, national security and intelligence experts, leads us once again to conclude he is not temperamentally fit to be president and commander-in-chief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: For the record, Donald Trump tweeted this, he tweeted, "For the record, I have zero investments in Russia."

Let's dig into this. CNN political commentator Ryan Lizza, who's the Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker," wrote extensively about it this week, he's with me, and CNN Money's Jose Pagliery who's been digging on this as well.

Let me begin. Jose, to you. Your reaction to Donald Trump, tweeting, "I have zero investment in Russia." True?

JOSE PAGLIERY, CNN MONEY STAFF WRITER: Well, we at CNN have investigated this and it looks like that's mostly right. I mean, his business ties are really flimsy. He had a lot of ambition. He's wanted to launch in Russia, but he hasn't done a great job. All we found is in 2013 he brought the Miss America Pageant to Moscow. He invited Putin. He was hoping to launch Trump Tower, Trump hotel, he registered the trademark for his Trump Crest in Russia as well. But none of those things have beared any fruit.

HARLOW: Right.

PAGLIERY: All these real estate projects didn't come to life. On the other hand, the person for which you can say there are political ties to Russia and that's a completely separate discussion. So yes, it doesn't seem like he's got many investments in Russia, or any at all, but his political ties are sufficient.

HARLOW: Right. So we'll get to that in one moment. Ryan, I think it's important to point out the "Washington Post" to some extent have been reporting on this, right? And they talk about Donald Jr., his son in 2008, saying at a real estate conference in New York, quote, "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

Any meat to that? Any significance of that, in your opinion?

LIZZA: Yes. Well, he's got a lot of wealthy Russians -- I think what his son was saying is he's got a lot of wealthy Russians buying apartments and buildings and renting space from Trump and so they are customers.

[17:30:04] You know, he had a mansion in Mar-a-Lago that he bought for a sort of fire sale price and then sold to a well-known Russian oligarch for, you know, two or three times the cost . So, yes, look, the links -- the financial links are that Trump has for many, many years wanted to do business in Russia, and like a lot of Trump aspirations in the business world, they didn't always work out.

I -- you know, I think the more important thing and the more just sort of obvious thing is how he has tilted now the Republican Party's policy views on Russia.

HARLOW: Right. I mean, you wrote this --

LIZZA: Firmly in the direction of Putin, and that's a dramatic change.

HARLOW: Ryan, you -- you wrote in a matter of weeks, Trump has made the GOP a pro-Putin party. Really? LIZZA: Yes, I mean, if you look at the series of policy changes that

the party now, because Donald Trump is the head of the party has gone through.

HARLOW: Right.

LIZZA: This struck home to me when I was at the Republican convention in Cleveland, and a very prominent House Republican said to me, he said the most undercovered story at this convention is how the Trump campaign changed the Republican platform to be more pro-Putin. I know this has been written about by our CNN colleague Josh Rogin in the "Washington Post."

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Let's pause and explain --

LIZZA: Republicans view of -- yes.

HARLOW: Right. Let's explain it for our viewers. Right?

LIZZA: Yes. Let me explain.

HARLOW: The standing Republican view has been to -- to arm the Ukrainian to defend themselves against --

LIZZA: The entire Republican foreign policy stand.

HARLOW: Against Russia, and that changed at the convention.

LIZZA: That's right.

HARLOW: And that changed -- look, Manafort was pressed on it this morning on "Meet the Press" and he said the Trump camp had nothing to do with changing that stance to be more pro-Russia. Trump has said he has nothing to do with it.

LIZZA: Yes.

HARLOW: But there's a real significance here that had changed it all.

LIZZA: Yes. And Josh Rogin, the "Washington Post" reporter, tweeted what Manafort said was not true. His reporting is very detailed and he has a name of a Republican delegate who is on the platform committee, had an amendment with language, to continue the Republicans' view that the next president should support arming the Ukrainians, and that was scuttled by aides to Donald Trump.

So that's a fact. That language is no longer in the RNC platform. So you've got that data point. Then you have Trump today with George Stephanopoulos arguing today that the Russians are not in Crimea. That's just false. You had Trump the other day at his press conference saying that he would look at stopping sanctions against Russia and perhaps recognizing Crimea which was seized by Russia in 2014 as a territory of the Ukraine. That he would look at basically handing that over to the Russians. Look, the previous Republican position on Crime was they were willing

to go to war over it. Now whether you think that's a good idea or not --

HARLOW: Right. John McCain who said that.

LIZZA: My point in that article is -- absolutely. And in the final change of course is his very odd I think to a lot of foreign policy folks criticism of NATO. I think -- you know, there's plenty to criticize with NATO, and on the point that he makes that everyone should -- everyone in NATO should be paying their fair share. What I think surprises a lot of people in the foreign policy community is so many pro-Putin, pro-Russia statements and so many attacks on NATO, and that balance is just sort of -- you know, it has people scratching their head.

And look, Hillary Clinton is right in that clip you said, he has articulated a wish list of Putin's priorities in the region, on Crimea, on arming the Ukraine and on attacking NATO. And those are just facts. So I think that's what make this other conversation of, oh, my, are there some kind of financial links between Trump and Russia? That's what -- has people digging into that. And look, there's one major way that this could all be cleared up.

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: Is his tax returns.

HARLOW: And Jose, respond.

PAGLIERY: Right. I'm glad you pointed that out, because this notion that Trump has business ties with Russia, it's sort of a distraction. What you've listed are real issues, a real bug shift in the platform of -- shift in focus for the Republican Party potentially, you know, huge implications in terms of the United States place in the world, when it comes to, you know, dealing with Russia as a superpower. However, there's another aspect to this which we should debunk. I mean, reporters should do a good job here and actually state that these rumors that Russia hacked the DNC on behalf of Trump or to help the Trump campaign, it's worth pointing out that so far this conversation has been built up by a lot of media, but there isn't any meat there.

HARLOW: Right.

PAGLIERY: No -- the FBI --

HARLOW: I mean, the director of national intelligence came out and said we're not -- we're not there yet.

PAGLIERY: Right. The FBI has not determined yet that it was Russia and so far we just don't have any answers.

HARLOW: Guys, I want your reaction to --

LIZZA: Yes, I was surprised that -- yes. HARLOW: Go ahead. Go ahead, Ryan.

LIZZA: I was surprised that Hillary Clinton actually -- I was a little surprised that Clinton today stated as fact that that was the finding of the intelligence community that this was a Russian hack.

PAGLIERY: That's a very dangerous game to play.

LIZZA: The -- I've been at this conference here in Aspen the last few days, where Brennan has been and other intelligence folks and they've -- you know, everyone has been talking about that out here. And the consensus is it's really not a big deal, frankly, if Russia hacked into the DNC.

[17:35:04] That's just what the Russians do. We hack into their stuff all the time.

PAGLIERY: Yes, we do.

LIZZA: The thing that crosses the line is leaking it and trying to influence our election. That is quantitatively different than the kind of spy games that both sides play.

PAGLIERY: Well, and then -- and then the next step of that which is saying that that hack was actually used for, you know, political means and that was used to push forward one party over the other.

HARLOW: All right, guys.

PAGLIERY: That actually --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: I got to jump in here with one final thing. I want you both to very quickly weigh in on this. The significance, is it fair to put a significance on what Paul Manafort did previously, before he was running Trump's campaign, the fact that he was paid to advise Viktor Yanukovych, you know, basically a puppet for Putin, while he was running Ukraine?

Is that, Ryan Lizza, to you, fair criticism in terms of trying to connect dots here, or is that unjustified?

LIZZA: I mean, look, Trump doesn't have well-established political views on a lot of issues, so the people around him and the people who are giving him policy advice, that is extremely important and the fact that Manafort spent a decade advising pro-Russian candidates in the Ukraine, I certainly think that's significant. I certainly think that's something that journalists need to look at and need to understand. Is he advising Trump on his Russia policy? You know, a guy running Trump's campaign worked for a pro-Putin candidate. So I think that's significant.

And if we didn't have these series of policy changes, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't be -- you know, I wouldn't think it would be as interesting, but we have a major, major 180 in the Republican Party with respect to his views on Russia.

HARLOW: But, Jose -- Jose, Manafort pointed out, well, that was my past life, that was my past job. This is my job now.

PAGLIERY: That's a good point, but actually to push forward Ryan's point here, he's right. Look, I have read two or three of Trump's books about himself and the way he runs his business. And the way he does it, if we're going to just like sum it out, he surrounds himself with really smart people who guide him. He doesn't make a lot of decisions. They sort of -- they influence him and then he makes the decision to move. And if he's surrounding himself with a lot of people who are pro-Putin, pro-Kremlin, pro-Russian, that will make a difference in his policies.

HARLOW: Jose, Ryan, thank you both. Important discussion. It will continue, no question.

LIZZA: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: We have a lot still ahead.

Straight ahead, just moments ago, Hillary Clinton weighed in on the back and forth between Donald Trump and the father of a fallen U.S. soldier. You'll hear what Clinton had to say today in response next.

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[17:40:00] HARLOW: The Clinton-Kaine rust belt bus tour is rolling through Ohio today. It stopped in Columbus just a short time ago and during a rally there, Hillary Clinton spoke about the escalating feud between Donald Trump and Khizr Khan, the Muslim father of a decorated U.S. soldier who was killed in Iraq.

Our CNN political correspondent Brianna Keilar is traveling with the campaign.

Obviously this is getting major headlines. It is the talk of the political world. What is Clinton camp saying right now?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: There's been an evolution actually over the last day in their response to this, Poppy. What we saw yesterday was a reticence on Hillary Clinton's part to really wade into the political fray on this.

HARLOW: Right.

KEILAR: In the first of three events yesterday she had a comment about this controversy between Donald Trump and Khizr Khan on her prompter, she skipped it. It wasn't until last night, in her last event which was very late, about 11:00 p.m., where she even mentioned it and even then it was just a passing reference. Well, fast forward to this morning, she went to church, and she spoke much more in depth about it as she spoke to reporters as well. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLINTON: When his father spoke at the convention and pulled out a copy of the Constitution, it was so fitting that happened in Philadelphia where our country started 240 years ago. They enshrined in our Constitution the principle of religious liberty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now Clinton, Poppy, was asked by reporters today, is this going to affect Donald Trump? And she said, basically that she didn't know. That he said a lot of things and she said, I don't know where the bottom is.

HARLOW: Brianna Keilar on the trail with the Clintons, thank you very much. This continues to evolve, that's for sure.

And coming up next, Donald Trump's public dispute with the Gold Star family continuing to get reaction from the right and the left.

Up next, a former Democratic governor and a Clinton supporter faces off with Trump surrogate and a Republican strategist over this debate on Donald Trump. Immigration proposal, that's straight ahead. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:46:22] HARLOW: All right, welcome back. Let's delve deeper into this discussion about Donald Trump's dispute with Khizr Khan, a Muslim father of a decorated U.S. war soldier who was killed in Iraq.

Back with me now is Donald Trump surrogate, Boris Epshteyn -- Epshteyn, my apologies.

EPSHTEYN: It's OK.

HARLOW: And Jennifer Granholm, the Democratic governor -- former Democratic governor of Michigan. She's also a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Governor Granholm, let's get granular on this one when it comes to votes. I know you very much oppose what Donald Trump has said and the feud back and forth, but does it move the needle in terms of votes, especially in the critical rust belt states where Kaine and Clinton are right now? Or is this is a case of if you didn't like Donald Trump before, you like him even less now?

GRANHOLM: Well, I -- it's hard to know, as you know, Poppy, as you guys have discussed earlier. It's hard to know what actually moves people, given that it seems like the base of support for Donald Trump has been pretty stuck right where it is. This, though, we do know is that the morning consult poll from this morning showed that Hillary Clinton, after the DNC had bumped up about four points, obviously. Who knows whether that's attributable to Mr. Khan, but I am certain that it was a pivotal point in the convention. It's also --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: We don't have -- we don't have any official CNN polling yet on those numbers.

GRANHOLM: Right. You don't have CNN polling -- right. And we don't -- who knows, right? We won't know how it will shake out. It's just a bit of evidence that in fact, you know, she seems to be getting a bit of a bump from the convention, but we'll see with further polling coming out.

In that poll, though, this morning, it showed that she jumped up 1 point above Donald Trump with men, with white men, which is really very interesting because she's obviously been in these two states, in Ohio and Pennsylvania, to speak to the men who have been affected by trade, who have seen their jobs lost. And the fact that she went right to them is critical. And the fact that she has been talking specifically about job creation and citing the Moody's report that came out this past couple of days that Donald Trump's plan, economic plan would cost 3.5 million jobs and hers would create 10 million. It's not her saying it. It is Moody's economists who are saying this, who are non-partisan.

HARLOW: And before I get to Boris, I do want to know that yes, this is Moody's Analytics, at the same time the man who runs it, Mark Zandy, is a contributor. He gave the maximum amount to the Clinton campaign. It's just important to note there.

All right, Boris --

GRANHOLM: And was also an adviser to John McCain, though. Just to be clear.

HARLOW: Which is also true. That's true, Governor.

EPSHTEYN: May I respond to those points?

HARLOW: You can but I want you to listen to this as well because this is what Donald Trump said to George Stephanopoulos this morning speaking specifically about Khizr Khan's wife and why she stood silently by his side on the stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: His wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say, she probably maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say, you tell me, but plenty of people have written that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So he was talking about the wife of Ghazala Khan, and that offended many people who said that he was playing in the stereotypes about Muslim women being told that they have to be quiet. Boris, why did he say that? What did he mean?

EPSHTEYN: Well, I'm not in the head of Mr. Trump. You'd have to ask him that.

HARLOW: You're a surrogate for the --

EPSHTEYN: What I would --

HARLOW: You're a surrogate for the campaign.

EPSHTEYN: Well, he was making an observation. I think, you know, if you look at the speech at the DNC, Mr. Khan was on the attack, full bore against Mr. Trump, pulling out the pocket Constitution, again, unfortunately, we again, as I said earlier, we are all in awe of the sacrifice that captain Khan and his parents have made, but that should not be politicized and should not be used as a prop of the DNC.

[17:50:11] Now as to what Governor Granholm said, first of all, there's no polling that could possibly reflect the trip to Pennsylvania and Ohio that the Clinton -- the Clinton-Kaine is on right now. So the polling that we do have, the actual polling has Mr. Trump up by seven points, coming out of the RNC. And what happened --

HARLOW: The actual polling that we have is Trump 44, Clinton 39, a five-point spread and that was after the RNC. About a week ago.

EPSHTEYN: The "L.A. Times" has seven so that's a running poll. So there's a lot of polls out there. But the fair point is this. That if you look across the country, if you look at the coal country, if you look at the rust belt, those folks are overwhelmingly favoring Donald Trump because of jobs. The Clintons have a terrible history in jobs. NAFTA cost 700,000 jobs alone. The TPP, which we know from Terry McAuliffe the Clintons -- that cost too many jobs.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: But I asked you to respond -- I asked you to respond to that sound, Boris. I asked you what your candidate meant and what the point is of saying that.

EPSHTEYN: As I said, so he's responding and he's making an observation as to what happened at the DNC. He's a free American, he's got the full right to make an observation about what Mrs. Khan was saying or was not saying during the DNC. But again we need to be concentrating on the main issue. It was not Donald Trump that any how caused for the Khan family to be broken apart, for their terrible loss. It was radical Islamic jihadists. It was the -- it's ISIS.

We need to be talking about how we will keep this country safe. And Donald Trump was the only one who will do that. Hillary Clinton has already (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: Boris Epshteyn --

EPSHTEYN: ISIS is born on her watch.

HARLOW: Boris Epshteyn, thank you.

EPSHTEYN: Thanks.

HARLOW: Governor Granholm, I'm getting the wrap. I wish I had more time. Thank you both.

GRANHOLM: There's nothing you can say to justify it. I just have to say that. There's nothing he can say to justify what he said.

HARLOW: Thank you. You're both back next hour, so stay with me. We're going to take a quick break.

GRANHOLM: All right. Thanks.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

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[17:55:26] HARLOW: Welcome back. The father of a fallen Muslim American soldier did not hold back today on CNN "STATE OF UNION." Not only did Mr. Khan slam Donald Trump. He also called on other GOP leaders to repudiate their presidential candidate specifically pointing to Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan. And he is now calling on Trump's family to intervene. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHAN: This person is total incapable of empathy. I want his family to counsel him, teach him some empathy, he will be a better person if he could become. But he is a black soul. And this is totally unfit for the leadership of this beautiful country. The love and affection that we have received that affirms that our beliefs, our experience in this country had been correct and positive. The world is receiving us like we have never seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. We will have that full interview with the father from "STATE OF THE UNION" today coming up next at the top of the hour. Quick break. Stay with us for that.

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