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Hate and Vitriol at Trump Rallies; Trump Calls Clinton Founder of ISIS; GOP Frustrated by Trump Behavior; Knife Attack in London; New Fox News Poll Shows Clinton With 10-Point Lead Over Trump; 69 Percent Of Voters Thought Trump's Response To The Khan Family Was Out Of Bounds; Newsweek Covers Article On Trump's Business Failures; Trump Hair Hut A Hit With Tourists. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired August 3, 2016 - 23:00   ET


[23:00:19] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Panic in the GOP. Top Republicans hoping against hope that they can tame Trump, but is it too late for them to reverse his hostile takeover of the Party? This is "CNN Tonight"; I'm Don Lemon. Welcome to the bizarre world of politics, where up is down, black is white and the Trump campaign is doing really well.


DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The campaign is doing really well. It's never been so well united. We started on June 16th. I would say right now it's the best, in terms of being united, that it's been since we began. We're doing incredibly well.


LEMON: Well that as anger grows among the GOP powers-that-be over Trump's refusal to endorse Paul Ryan or John McCain. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton simply says this:


HILLARY CLINTON (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: There is no doubt in my mind that Donald Trump is unqualified to be president and unfit to be commander-in-chief.


LEMON: Okay; so I want everyone to watch this. I want to turn now to the Trump campaign. It's like nothing we've ever seen, and a key part of it is the unprecedented level of anger among some Trump supporters. Anger, which they are not afraid to express openly.

Three "New York Times" reporters put together an extraordinary video capturing just some of what goes on in the crowd at Trump rallies. We have bleeped the very worst profanity but I must warn you what remains is still disturbing, including racial, ethnic and gay slurs, among other things. We think you need to hear it for yourself to have an accurate picture of what some Trump voters are saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: You know the safest place in the world to be is at a Trump rally.

CROWD: Build a wall. Build a wall!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [Bleep] those dirty beaners.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Build the wall!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [Bleep] political correctness.

PROTESTERS: Build that wall! Build that wall!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am. You're making me leave.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God bless Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for not taking your shirt off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your problem with Trump? Muslim is not a religion, partner, it's an ideology. you don't come and talk about America when you're Muslim!

TRUMP: -- I'll go to the polls and vote for Donald Trump!

CROWD: I swear on Tuesday I will go to the polls and vote for Donald Trump!

TRUMP: Our president has divided this country so bad.

CROWD: Yes. Yes!

TRUMP: There's a group out there, just throw them the hell out. Get out. Get out.

[Chanting Build That Wall!]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sure that paperwork comes in Spanish.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Ignorance and immigrants, they mix together!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you don't speak English and don't contribute, get out!

TRUMP: I'm giving a lot of attention to tax cuts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Hillary Clinton needs to get her ass spanked.


[Bleep] [Bleep]

MINDY KARKOWSKI: Everybody gets offended by the pettiest little stuff. I mean, grow up. Not a whole lot of women will put these shirts on and come out in public and I thought this is how I feel.

MIKE WALLACE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I feel this is the last chance we have to establish law and order and preserve the culture I grew up in.

TRUMP: So far we're doing well, right? Have I been a good messenger? This is a movement like people have never seen before.


LEMON: So I want to thank - and that was from "New York Times" reporters [23:05:01] Ashley Parker, Nick Corasinidi and Erica Bairnstein, and it shows what happens beyond the rope line, where the reporters are allowed to go because they set up places, every campaign does it, for reporters to go; and I thought it was very smart of them to get in the crowd, to actually show what actually happens there, beyond the roped off area where the media is allowed to go.

So, here to discuss all of this now is Andre Bauer, former Lieutenant Governor of South Carolina and a Trump Supporter; Angela Rye, a CNN Political Commentator; and Bob Cusack, the Editor-In-Chief of "The Hill."

So that is really strong stuff, to say the least. You've all been watching Trump's campaign from the very start and discussing it here on CNN with me, and others. So I want to hear from each of you about what you saw when you watched that, what you thought. Bob, I'm going to start with you.

BOB CUSACK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE HILL", via satellite: Well, I mean, I think the violence and the epitaphs, I mean, they are very concerning and there is a lot of anger, on both sides, and the country is very divided; and you watch that video and you think wow, the country is so divided.

I do think that Trump, there have been a few times, it has been far and few between, when the crowd was chanting "lock her up" and "Hillary Clinton" and kind of said, hey, let's kind of calm down with his hand motion. I think he needs to do more of that, like John McCain in 2008 where he said, no, Obama is not a Muslim. That video, I think, was very brave because clearly the crowd was fired up; and that's fine for political rallies.

If you like his policies on immigration, if you like the wall, that's fine but some of the name calling there, and particularly the violence, pretty troubling.

LEMON: Andre, when you hear, and you see that video and you see people, what they're doing, is this what you think he meant when he coined the slogan "Make America Great Again?"

ANDRE BAUER, FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, SOUTH CAROLINA: I don't think so. It's not what I think about and, quite frankly, it not the image, as a person that has affiliated with Trump, or affiliated with the Republican Party, it's not the message I want to get out there. I may differ with you on political views, which we do from time to time, but I will always want a civil discussion when we have that debate.

LEMON: We've had CNN reporters, we've had other reporters, we've had producers, we've had people say this is what happens at Trump rallies and then people will say, oh, no. That doesn't exist; that does not happen. Then you're looking at - are we not supposed to believe our lying eyes when that happens? That's happening at a rally. You cannot deny that those things are happening.

It may not be as -- as John McCain said, that he doesn't represent the Republican Party but this is what is being -- the Republican Party is being portrayed as.

BAUER: Well, and you're always going to find extreme things happen from time to time. I went to one rally in Myrtle Beach, in February. I didn't see anything like that. This was a daytime event. I didn't see any - I didn't actually see anybody getting out of line. It was a very peaceful event, but I hadn't -- this is the only one I've been to, was the one in Myrtle Beach.

LEMON: John McCain, though, I think, would say we don't want that at our rallies and he wouldn't appeal -- is this why people say he need to be careful, because he's appealing to the lowest common denominator, and I mean racists and bigots and misogynists and the worst -


LEMON: Yes, fill in the blank.

RYE: Don, I have to say that I think he's well aware of what he's done. I've said this for several months now, and what he is doing. Donald Trump is not only playing to those folks, pandering to these folks' worst fears, the fact that the man - one of the men on the video said he's preserving the culture I grew up in, that is not a culture that is inclusive.

If I'm to guess his age I would say it's a little less inclusive than it is now. I would have to -

LEMON: Those demographics in the country also no longer exist -

RYE: That's exactly right.

LEMON: Go ahead.

RYE: So when you're dealing with folks who are talking about, you know, whether or not people speak Spanish and we're just leaving the DNC where Spanish was not only welcomed it was encouraged; when you're talking about the number of people who shout out F*** Islam, you know, that type of dangerous hate speech needs to be checked.

And Donald Trump, whether John McCain wants to acknowledge it's part of the Republican Party or not, he is the leader of the Republican Party as their nominee and he has every responsibility to check not only the commentary, but he has a responsibility to check his moral compass. Where is your moral compass? Why didn't you disavow the KKK and David Duke? Why didn't you call out the folks who were beating up the Black Lives Matter protester? Why would you offer to pay someone's bail who hit a black man in the face who then was handcuffed at one of your rallies in North Carolina?

BAUER: He did disavow David Duke, didn't he?

RYE: I think that he said - what did he say?

LEMON: He said okay, okay, okay. I disavow.

RYE: He said I rebuke him like he was the devil.

LEMON: It was sort of a tacit, like, okay; --

RYE: Fine. Fine.

LEMON: -- off the cuff, fine. Fine, which turned out, quite frankly, there were a lot of African-Americans who I spoke to - I shouldn't say a lot, but [23:10:01] there were a number of African-Americans who said that they would consider voting for him up until that moment, because anything that has to do with the KKK of any type, because the KKK is not just about - they just don't - it's not just about not liking black people. They don't like a whole lot of people. They don't like Jewish -

RYE: They're anti-Semitic, that's right.

LEMON: -- all sorts of things, and that's the one thing where you say, no. I don't want your vote if you are that kind of person. Clinton certainly said that. She has her other problems. She has issues, but right away she said I don't want that kind of a person.

So I think it's interesting when people in the campaign will say what you're saying, by playing this video, that that is indeed racist in itself -

RYE: Yes.

LEMON: -- to bring up people who are racist and misogynist and anti- Semitic. That's, indeed, racist in some way. You've heard that.

RYE: Yes, well, I think what is astonishing -

LEMON: It's like an alternate universe, like, what are you talking about.

RYE: Exactly. What's astonishing to me is the number of people who will say you're playing the race card when you address these claims, or you're race-baiting. That's not what this is. We are acknowledging that this is, in fact, a problem for his campaign and for the candidate. At some point you have to acknowledge that this type of behavior is not acceptable and does not belong at a presidential rally, or anywhere in this country.

He ought to be ashamed of himself and if he can't, not just rebuke it but disavow it and shut it down at future rallies, at future debates, at future town hall meetings, he's got a real problem on his hands.

LEMON: Bob, he can't -- go ahead, Andre.

BAUER: I was going to say, you know, in defense of some of this, some of these, dating back, I remember where people that were paid to be there or people that came that really weren't Republicans, -- I can't quantify everything we just saw on the tape, and I'm not trying to, but there was some argument that some of this didn't come from within his own supporters but, in fact, came --

LEMON: And there was a problem, too, with protestors provoking some of the Trump -

BAUER: I guess that's where I'm -

LEMON: You have to take responsibility for that. That's not right either.

RYE: Nobody made that man wear that F*** Islam shirt; nobody told that woman to say that some of these forms are in Spanish. If you're not contributing to the economy than go back to where you came from. Nobody's provoking them to do that. Build the wall -

LEMON: Or F*** Y** Beaners or -

RYE: What was the thing about Hillary Clinton? Trump that B****? I'm not going to say it. "Trump that B****"; nobody is provoking - they're selling t-shirts.

LEMON: Yes. Bob, you can't control every person that comes to his rallies, and we know that. They are free to believe what they want to believe, say what they want to say, no matter how offensive it might be. This goes a little further than simply not being politically correct, wouldn't you agree?

CUSACK: Yes, I definitely agree and I think also it highlights the fact of what Trump is trying to do in the general election, is that if you were to come out and disavow some of these controversial statements, or disavow some of these supporters or these t-shirts, it actually would get him more votes and the Trump supporters would not abandon him.

That's why, you know, we talked about the autopsy report after the 2012 election. The reason why the RNC put that together is because they saw why they lost in 2012, and Trump is not following the script of that autopsy report. You can't just win ten percent of the Latino vote, 15-percent Latino vote; you've got to get close to 40 and you need more than one-percent of the Black votes. So it just highlights the strategy faults of the Trump campaign right now.

LEMON: I think it's interesting to also, as we were discussing today, I was discussing with someone, talking about the Khan family, and you consider the beginning of this and banning Muslims and what have you. I said, the irony in this is the Khan family is the one thing that sort of pushed people over the edge, and from polling it's looking like it may very well be the - I think the Trump campaign and Trump supporters were counting on an America, like that man said, to take them back to what -

RYE: America and culture he knew.

LEMON: That America no longer exists.

RYE: It doesn't.

LEMON: We have people of all different ethnicities, all different religions and backgrounds, who are, indeed, legitimate Americans. Americans are not just white people anymore. It's not just the majority of white people.

RYE: And they deserve respect. I think that the Khan family did, in terms of it being a tipping point, is you saw two people, one who didn't speak on the stage but when you heard her speak, she was very articulate. You see this man, who a lawyer; they're proud of their son. He gave his life in the military, serving and protecting us. You start realizing this could have been your next door neighbor. All of a sudden it's not just a blind concept that you can't apply to real life.

LEMON: As a Trump supporter, I'll give you the last word because do I think that back in 2012, the loss that the Republican Party had a right, we went to Reince Priebus, we need to open our tent and a bigger ten. Since then I don't know what's happened. I'll give you the last word as a Republican and a Trump supporter.

BAUER: Clearly Atwater talked about this many years ago, about broadening the tent. I tried to do it in South Carolina. We've got to appeal to more folks, and the Democratic Party had done an excellent job of doing that. They almost - I thought they went overboard almost on pandering to so many groups instead of coming up with just a unified message. The Republicans have got to do a better job.


BAUER: Donald Trump's got to do a better job. He's still got a great chance [23:15:01] to be the next President of the United States, but he's got to do all he can to welcome new folks into the fold.

LEMON: Ae you embarrassed by that, when you see that? I think - I mean, it embarrasses me. I can't believe that my fellow Americans act that way.

RYE: Absolutely.

LEMON: It's disgusting actually.

RYE: And then you think about the President, they were mad about the East Room comment. He was doing his patriotic duty. LEMON: All right; I've got to go. You guys are going to come back, but we're going to talk about some other things. We'll be right back.


LEMON: Donald Trump stepping up his attacks on Hillary Clinton tonight, but will it be enough to calm the turmoil in his own party? Back with me now are Andre Bauer, Angela Rye and Bob Cusack.

So today Trump held a town hall in Daytona, Florida where he had this to say about Hillary Clinton.


TRUMP: We let ISIS take this position. It was Hillary Clinton that she should get an award from them as the founder of ISIS; that's what it was. [23:20:01] That's what it was, her weakness. Her weak policy.

American's been, -- again, it's been humiliated in so many different ways. Wouldn't that be embarrassing, to lose to Crooked Hillary Clinton? That would be terrible.


LEMON: So, Bob, if you were - if you were campaigning, wouldn't it have made sense for Trump to simply have focused on attacking Hillary all along instead of these dramas with the Khan family, remarks over the sexual harassment and denying support to Paul Ryan and John McCain? Wouldn't you just say focus on Hillary Clinton?

CUSACK: Yes, because his attacks on Hillary Clinton, and those in particular, about being the founder of ISIS are effective; they get the crowd fired up. That's what he needs to do. I mean, campaigns are rollercoasters. You go up; you go down. There's still a long way to go but he needs to totally focus on Hillary Clinton, talk about ISIS. He actually enjoys polling advantages on combatting terrorism. He's neck and neck with her on the economy. He's got to get those numbers even better, but overall, you're right.

The Khan speech, a lot of people that I know, didn't even see that speech when it aired at the Democratic Convention. He gave it more airtime by attacking the Khan's and that was just a pivotal, 101, big mistake you don't do in politics and it backfired.

LEMON: Angela, he says that, you know, saying Hillary Clinton is the founder of ISIS works. Do you think that works?

RYE: It might work, but it's not true. I think the challenge with politics, period, so this is not a Donald Trump problem, but with politics period is if you're going to attack someone I think it should be rooted in some kind of fact. This is the same thing as him saying that she wants to abolish the Second Amendment. It's been debunked, and debunked over and over again. He thinks if he repeats something enough times then it becomes true. I finally decided that he's not really campaigning for president. He's campaigning to replace Rush Limbaugh; that has to be it. He just wants to be a right-wing talk show host.

LEMON: There are a lot of people, on both sides, who are repeating things, though, who are not necessarily true and they think that they repeat them enough times they are true. That's why I love doing fact checks and all that.

RYE: Yes.

LEMON: Oh, yes.

RYE: Critical.

LEMON: There are a couple I'm going to send out tonight, after this show. Andre, this tweet today, Trump seemed to be speaking to his public and not to his peers, right, when he talked about this, when he said, "There is great unity in my campaign, perhaps greater than ever before. I want to thank everyone for your tremendous support. Beat Crooked Hillary."

So, we've been reporting that people inside the campaign are extremely frustrated; also that Hillary Clinton continues to get a major endorsement while Republicans are turning their back on him. Do you think voters care about any of that, about turmoil inside the campaign, that we're cohesive? Does that matter?

BAUER: I don't think they care about turmoil. That's all inside the party politics. Endorsements do help because certain people will vote for whoever the person is. They may say, well, I don't know Donald Trump, but I know whoever it is, and I like - I know Chris Christie and I like Chris Christie and because of Chris Christie I'm going to support Donald Trump.

So endorsements do help. You want all the endorsements you can get, or almost all the endorsements you can get. You want to win by attrition. Clearly these aren't --

LEMON: That was a good catch. Go ahead, finish what you were saying.

BAUER: Clearly you want to pick up every endorsement you can, within reason, and you don't want to lose them. Now, are these the stalwart ones, I think the Republican Party, real lightning rods? No, but you still would like to have them. I'm not saying anything against them, but they're not - the Newt Gingrich, the Chris Christie, they're not the ones, when you think of the core Republicans who have really made the party what it is; but still, you don't want to see any of it -

RYE: You mean like the Bush family? I'm just wondering.

LEMON: But my question is -

BAUER: Take your shot.

RYE: Yes, I'm taking a shot.

LEMON: Bob, I want your thoughts on this because how can he solve problems in Congress if e's not even allied with party leaders?

CUSACK: That's a great question. I think a big question, honestly, for both campaigns, is how will they get Washington to work again. now, Trump is all about the art of the deal and he's made that case that I can work with both sides. Of course, he used to be a Democrat. Hillary Clinton, I think, also has an issue here, of working with Republicans. I think if she were elected president, there would be a lot of Republicans in Congress going, listen, she's a polarizing figure. I'm not going to work with her on a lot of stuff.

So I think both have a major, major problem and I think this is going to come up in the debates: how can you get the other side -- we're looking at a divided garment one way or the other, whether it's the Senate could flip, the House is likely going to be Republican. So, no team is going to have the House, Senate and the White House. They're going to have to work with the other side to get anything done in the first 100-days of the new president and beyond.

LEMON: Bob, Angela, Andre, thank you very much.

RYE: Thank you.

BAUER: Thank you.

LEMON: We have some new details to tell you about, about this knife attack in Central London tonight that killed one person and injured five others, in Russell Square. Police say mental health is a major factor in this case, but [23:25:01] they have not yet ruled out terrorism. The 19-year-old suspect was arrested within minutes and is in custody in a hospital. Officials say one of those injured in the attack appears to be an American. We'll keep you updated as we get new details here.

Up next, 97 days until election day. Can Donald Trump turn his campaign around?


[23:29:29] LEMON: Trump campaign pushing back, denying reports that staff members of frustrated with the GOP candidate. Meanwhile, a source telling CNN the head of the Republican Party is upset with Trump for appearing to go off-message over the past few days.

I want to bring in two syndicated talk radio hosts who have the ear of the voters, and that's John Fredericks, he's a Trump supporter, and Dennis Prager, Founder of, a conservative online learning site. Good evening, Gentlemen. Good to have you both of you here.

Dennis, you first. Is the Trump campaign and the GOP at a breaking point right now?

DENNIS PRAGER, FOUNDER, PRAGERU.COM: No; there's frustration and it's completely understandable.

[23:30:04] Look, he was my 17th choice of 17 people. I have had the same position from the beginning. I don't want him, but if he is nominated my only alternative is four more years of the left and 40 more years of a left-wing Supreme Court. Between the two I will vote for him.

I am afraid of what the left has done to our campuses. I am afraid of what it has done to our economy. This is the only president in American history who has not had a greater than three-percent GDP growth in any year of his term as president. These are the things that he should be stressing. He's not stressing it. I don't know why, but if he does then he could turn it around.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Okay; John, and speaking of, the polls are showing that maybe he should be stressing it because there's a new FOX News poll out that's showing Hillary Clinton with a 10-point lead over Donald Trump, 49-39-percent. The same poll shows 69-percent of voters thought Trump's response to the Khan family was out of bounds. Do you think he can turn this around and do as Dennis said, maybe start focusing on some of the issues and hitting his opponent rather than doing self-injury?

JOHN FREDERICKS, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST, via satellite: Don, absolutely. When Donald Trump focuses on the issues that working- class, middle Americans are concerned about he's going to do very, very well. He goes up in every single poll, every single time that he focuses on those issues, jobs, getting the economy straightened out, bringing out jobs back, getting out of these wars, closing the Southern Border of the United States so that we have some kind of meaningful immigration. These are the things that matter to people. Right know this is a lot of political science narrative that is going on.

LEMON: John, let me ask you - let me ask you this because Dennis has been on with me a bunch -


LEMON: -- and Dennis and I, we probably had a similar conversation about is he going to pivot towards the general; so why isn't he doing these things, because people have been telling him he should be doing this for months now, even his own daughter, his own wife saying you need to more

presidential but he's still no the doing it yet you keep saying, oh, yeah, when he focusses on the issues, he's going to focus on the issues, but he's not doing it?

FREDERICKS: I think what you saw in this past week is a wake-up call for Mr. Trump. I think he understands the - what the stakes are now and what his role is. You know, he's not a politician and I think going forward you're going to --

LEMON: I've got to stop you there. I said this to Governor Jan Brewer, I said, you can't keep saying he's not a politician. He's running as President of the United States. He's been running for a year. He is the definition of a politician by now. You can't use that as an excuse, but go on.

FREDERICKS: Well, look, Don, I'm not saying whether it's an excuse or not, it's reality. He's accustomed to doing things in a certain way. He's got to be able to change that. I'm very confident that he is and he will.

Look, you're not going to win this campaign on personal insults, either way. You're not going to beat Hillary Clinton on emails or $400 million pallets of money or anything else. You're going to win on the issues.

The other thing is, Don, there is a raging battle going on, internally, in the GOP right now.

LEMON: Let me ask you though, you don't think $400 million, like, he should be hitting that and trying to tie that - I mean, I think any political consultant would say today he should have been focused on that money and tried to tie what the Obama administration did with Hillary Clinton and her, as Secretary of State and foreign policy. He's not doing it. Shouldn't that be -- you don't think that should be his course of action?

FREDERICKS: Well, sure. I mean, you had a $400 million secret payment -

LEMON: Exactly.

FREDERICKS: -- to the Iranian government, paying back something that goes from 1979, that's a very long time. They had 13,000 days to pay that back. That money comes on the same day that the hostages are released. That's a 13,000:1 coincidence. I don't buy it. The American people don't buy it.

LEMON: To that point then -

FREDERICKS: My point is, it is the issues, Don - it is the issues that are going to win this campaign for Trump.

LEMON: Okay, but -

PRAGER: Don, if I may say?


PRAGER: Here is an example, though, and obviously I've been critical, as you know, of Donald Trump; but here's an example of where I think it is fair to say the press really does want a Democrat to win. It doesn't matter who the Republican is, Mitt Romney was one of the most honorable men in America so they pilloried him four years ago. So it doesn't matter.

Here is an example, his spokesman, the President's spokesman says it was a complete coincidence that on the same day 400 million is sent to Tehran, four hostages are released. Now tell me what Donald Trump has said that is more absurd than that? LEMON: Well, then, to your point then, Dennis, I'm going to allow you some leeway with that because I just said shouldn't Donald Trump be hammering that point home?


LEMON: The headline should to be tonight, instead of Donald Trump keeps relitigating history would be tonight Donald Trump's hit Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration hard on Iran, a pallet of money?

[23:35:01] PRAGER: Right; both should - you're absolutely right. That's what he should be doing. I just wanted to be fair, though, that he is also, as all Republicans are also running against the press.

You showed this "New York Times" series of clips. Did the "New York Times" or, for that matter, did CNN, for which I have tremendous respect, show the Israeli flag burned by Bernie Sanders supporters in Philadelphia?

LEMON: Yes, we did.

PRAGER: I suspect not. You did?

LEMON: But not tonight, but we've shown it.

PRAGER: Then to your great credit, did the "New York Times," I don't know? I don't know. if it got the same amount of attention, then bravo. I just doubt it.

LEMON: Let's talk about -- let's continue to talk about this. John, you said that you were saying that there's great turmoil within the GOP and I cut you off. What did you mean by that?

FREDERICKS: There's a raging battle right now inside the GOP. It's a battle that should happen, is happening and it's going to continue to happen because basically Trump is transcending the entire Republican Party and this movement that nobody seems to grasp. Everybody is looking at these mistakes he's making. They don't understand what he's accomplished and what continues to happen. So he has stood up for working-class Americans, middle America by telling them that he's going to bring their jobs back, secure the southern border and get us out of these wars and this is the gist of it.

Look, it's a rejection of the former Republican Party elites, in Washington, who have done nothing for the working class, nothing for middle America. They have a failed policy of wars, body bags, wounded soldiers, billions of dollars in debt, trillions of dollars in debt. You got Paul Ryan in there. The only thing he has to show for his speakership so far is a Puerto Rico bailout for his Wall Street crony capitalist friends.

This battle is going to continue to rage because this is a movement Don that transcends one individual.

LEMON: To be continued, this conversation. Thank you, John. Thank you, Dennis. I'll see you soon.

Just ahead, the art of the deal; Donald Trump says his business record qualifies him to be president, but is that record as good as he says?


[23:42:02] LEMON: In the first days of this campaign, Donald Trump has insisted that his record as a businessman gives him the experience he needs to run the country, but is that record as good as he says? Let's discuss now with Kurt Eichenwald, the Senior Writer and Columnist for "Newsweek" and a contributing editor at "Vanity Fair". Good evening to you, Kurt. Thanks for coming on today.

Even today, within -- he's having some very tough days. Donald Trump was on the campaign trail talking about he's still winning. You have a cover story for "Newsweek" on Trump's business failures, and again, he's out on the campaign trial talking about he is still winning. In your estimation, from doing this research for the magazine, is Donald Trump a billionaire?

KURT EICHENWALD, SENIOR WRITER AND COLUMNIST, "NEWSWEEK": I seriously doubt it. I mean, you have - he went to Deutsche Bank in -- a few years back and submitted his personal financials and said I'm worth $3.5 billion and Deutsche Bank looked at the same numbers and said you're worth $700 million.

Trump has a habit, when it comes to numbers, of just flat out lying. If you think about it, if he's going to lie in a submission for a loan, if he's going to misrepresent his numbers and say this shows I'm worth $3.5 billion, what's he going to do when he stands up in front of the American people or on a reality TV show? He's not a guy who's glued to the truth.

LEMON: Okay; so I was speaking to a person who is a very big job in real estate and he says, you know, Don, that's just what real estate people do, especially in New York City. They oversell. They over- exaggerate. They embellish. They will do anything that they need to do to get the deal done. You have to understand the world that he comes from. Is that fair to say about Donald Trump?

EICHENWALD: It's not. The first statement you have is correct, they do oversell. I go with these guys - I mean, I started dealing with Donald Trump in the 1980's, when I was dealing with all these real estate guys, and they are big talkers. Trump is very different.

Trump is someone who is selling himself and selling himself as perfection. He would tell me I would never sleep because I'm always so busy. He would tell me while I'm on the phone, I never talk to reports because I don't have time because I'm so busy. Every single thing he started was going to be the best, the greatest, there's never been anything like it; and all of it, all of it went bust except for the stuff that was backed up by his dad.

LEMON: Okay; let me quote you then there because you sum up his business record in your article by saying, "Trump is rich because he was born rich -- and without his father repeatedly bailing him out, he would have likely filed for personal bankruptcy before he was 35." Now you just brought up, --

Specifically, you talked about his Atlantic City casinos. You talked about [23:45:01] his bankruptcies. Hillary Clinton even used those casinos, the now defunct Trump Plaza casino sign, as a background to slam Trump on the economy. Why is it such a good example, do you think, of Trump's business failures?

EICHENWALD: It's perfect because you go in -- Trump was getting some traction in real estate success in New York. He suddenly decides I'm going into casinos, very impulsive decision. He has no background in casinos. He gets one with Harrah's; they're partners. They hate him. They get rid of him, or they pay him and they go away. He then opens another one. He borrows lots of money. He can't pay off the money he borrows, so his dad gets him an illegal $3.5 million by passing cash over the craps table, I mean, literally, that's what happened.

Then he opens the Taj Mahal, the biggest casino ever, says he's going to do it all with bank loans. No bank will give him money, so he gets it all in junk bonds and he's bankrupt. His casinos are bankrupt in two years.

LEMON: You write -

EICHENWALD: The guy is a big talker. He does the same thing in politics that he does in business, "I'll fix everything. I'll be the best." In business he just went to bankruptcy court. I don't know what he'll do when he's president.

LEMON: You don't think he delivered in business, as much as he -

EICHENWALD: Absolutely not.

LEMON: You also write about what happened when Trump himself took over day-to-day operations of his casinos. What happened? There's a story there.

EICHENWALD: Well his three top casino guys - Trump is not someone who is a manager; he's terrible at it. And his three top casinos guys died in a terrible helicopter crash. So Trump had to take over operations and the result of that was just an exodus of senior executives, people who thought he was impossible to work with; people who thought -

You know, -- back in those days they used euphemisms like "eccentric". The people who thought he couldn't plan, couldn't do anything. So people either walked out or were fired, and it wasn't long after that that the banks started coming in and saying, you know, we are going to manage you, Donald Trump, because he wasn't able to manage the casinos himself.

LEMON: There was something about a story about a baccarat table, the baccarat table that you were --

EICHENWALD: Yes, that was -- it was a baccarat table; I was thinking it was a craps table. That was when Trump couldn't make an interest payment, his father cut a $3.5 million check, gave it to his lawyer, who went down to the casino gave a baccarat croupier a $3.5 million check. Took the $3.5 million in $5,000 chips through them all into a suitcase and left.

LEMON: So that -

EICHENWALD: This was an illegal -

LEMON: That was the story that you were telling earlier, at the baccarat table; but he is still afloat. He's flying around on helicopters and airplanes. He lives in a beautiful building. He seems to have tons of money.

EICHENWALD: Hey, give me $200 million and I'll be able to make it into something. I'll just stick it into a bank --

LEMON: But he has had some success is what I'm saying.

EICHENWALD: He did. He did successfully build some buildings with his dad's backing and co-signing loans, you know. His single biggest project that he ever did, which was successful, the Grand Hyatt in New York, couldn't have been done without his dad co-signing loans and giving him money.

He says his dad only gave him a million dollar. That's a total lie. That's why he gave him in a trust fund. If you take all his deals, his dad is there all the time, and it's - the reality is, Don, that if either you or I were given the money that Donald Trump was given and, in 1972, stuck it in a stock index fund, we'd be richer than Donald Trump is now. That's not the sign of a great businessman.

LEMON: Kurt Eichenwald, the Senior Writer and Columnist for "Newsweek" and contributing editor to "Vanity Fair"; thank you, sir.

EICHENWALD: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: When we come right back, how a couple of savvy guys are cashing in on Donald Trump.


[23:54:08] LEMON: An anti-Trump sign has a teenager seeing dollar signs. CNN's Jeanne Moos reports on making a buck with a homemade sign.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A couple of street savvy guys are cashing in on Donald Trump --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just a regular tall black guy getting money off of this guy.

-- sort of bemusing Black male, "Give me one dollar or I'm voting Trump." A 19-year-old from Ohio, who would only give his first name, Josh, got the sign idea off of the internet.

JOSH, ENTREPRENEUR: I just started traveling the U.S. and I've made around 12 Grand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 12 Grand, tax free.

MOOS: A self-described tall black guy, who does most of the talking, met Josh shortly after the teen arrived in New York. We stumbled upon them in the shadow of a Trump International Hotel in Columbus Circle, which has [23:55:01] become a bit of a magnet for protests, like this Trump hair hut.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 96 hula skirts were made in the shape of Donald Trump's head.

MOOS: Two ad agency guys dreamed this up to protest wealth inequality, matching dog not included.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Touch it, go inside, hang out and think about what would happen if that man came to power. Oh, my God!

MOOS: The hair hut, made out of Mexican straw, is meant to make a point, not a profit, while the sign guys can make as much as $225 a day.

Who would pay to pose in front of it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thumbs down, everybody.

MOOS: Maybe someone who felt insulted by the Donald.

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime.

MOOS: The people posing were tourists from Mexico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's no good for Mexico.

MOOS: But he is good for these guys, entrepreneurs who didn't even attend Trump University.

TRUMP: At Trump University, we teach success.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want money.


Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


LEMON: Trump hair hut. We'll be right back.



LEMON: That is it for us tonight. We'll see you back tomorrow night at 10:00.