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Police Grab Climber Scaling Trump Tower; Secret Service Spoke to Trump Campaign About Comment; Polls: Clinton Has Swing State Edge; New Clinton E-mail Release Raises Questions; Is Trump Just Misunderstood? Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 10, 2016 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:07] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. John Berman here, in for Anderson.

It was about the only thing missing in this campaign, a man with suction cups climbing a building, about 20 stories up Trump Tower. That's about how far this guy got, suction cups and all before members of the NYPD's elite emergency services unit grabbed him as stunned people on the street looked on.

This climbing standoff just one of several campaign stories any one of which could lead the newscast and we'll get to all of it.

First, New York authorities just briefed on what went down and who went up. Listen to the officer who pulled the climber in.


POLICE OFFICER: I was waiting for the perfect time to present itself. When I felt it was safe for him and myself and my crew so when that time came and I did talk to my crew and let them know, listen, he's at a level where I am able to grab him safely and bring him in. When it presented itself, I reached out, I took hold of his hand and I said, "Sir, you need to come with me."


BERMAN: I want to show you one more time what he was just talking about right there. The man several hours on this building was climbing up and officers opened up a window and pulled out the glass near him and then pulled him in very suddenly there. And in some ways, it was unexpected and there had been some word from the police that they were not going to pull building, but they did. They did so very quickly and they did so safely.

And now this man is in custody. Remarkable work from the New York Police Department there.

Let's get more from the scene right there. I want to go to CNN's Brynn Gingras outside Trump Tower.

Brynn, what are you learning about the climber right now?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, what we do know is that he is a 20-year-old man. He is from Virginia and he actually came here to New York yesterday and stayed in a hotel and he had this plan all set and ready to put in motion today.

What we are told by police is that he told officers that he posted a YouTube video titled "A Message to Mr. Trump", and his purpose of climbing this building was to get Donald Trump's attention. He says he's an independent researcher and this was the only way that he was actually going to get Trump's attention.

So, again, he had this all planned out and he was going to do this. That echoes what he was telling the people and the officers who were communicating with him as he continued to ascend this building. We do know that they were able to make contact with him on the 16th floor of Trump Tower and then again as he was climbing up to the 21st floor where the officers were in that window as you just saw. But certainly, a three-hour filled event.

Take a listen to how it all unfolded.


GINGRAS (voice-over): At 3:30 this afternoon, a man started his ascent to the top of Trump tower in midtown New York. He used an elaborate suction cup system with foot straps and a harness to inch his way higher. The FDNY and NYPD and the hostage negotiators attempted to reach him by breaking a window on the one of the lower floors of the 58-story tower.

By 5:00 p.m., he was on the 16th floor. They also attempted to lower a window washing system. At each attempt, he changed his course.

At about 5:45 p.m., NYPD representative said they would probably not cut out anymore window panes because the glass fell the last time and is dangerous. No one was injured.

Shortly after that, the NYPD deployed two air bags, one on the atrium below the climber, and one on the sidewalk on 56th street near Fifth Avenue.

He continued to climb while dropping items from his backpack.

At 6:20, two windows were removed from the 21st of the floor at Trump Tower and an NYPD emergency service unit attempted to talk the climber in.

Ten minutes after, two officers grabbed the climber by the arms and backpack, and hauled him into the window opening. An enormous crowd on the ground cheered the officer's efforts.

The climber was arrested and taken to a local hospital for evaluations.

(END VIDEOTAPE) GINGRAS: And again, the motive here we're learning from police is that this man wanted to talk to Donald Trump. He did tell police he did not intend to hurt anybody. Of course, now, police will probably learn more after the hospital evaluation and when he is in a police precinct.

Back to you, John.

BERMAN: All right. Brynn Gingras, on the street. Excellent reporting. Thank you so much.

Joining us now, CNN law enforcement producer Shimon Prokupecz, CNN legal analyst, Paul Callan, Christine Quinn who is here in her nonpartisan capacity as a former New York City Council speaker, and on the phone, retired NYPD chief of department, Philip Banks.

Shimon, let me start with you, because you've been working your sources all day during this event and after.

What's the latest that police sources are learning? What do they still want to find out?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT PRODUCER: I mean, they really just want to make sure perhaps he didn't want to harm Mr. Trump, make sure he didn't want to cause any harm to any of his family, and to make sure he wasn't up to anything.

[20:05:02] You know, we now know he didn't have anything else on him. There was nothing in his bag that sort of would have caused any kind of harm. They did find a bunch of I.D.s, some military I.D.s, some other identification in the bag. So, they're trying to figure out all these other names that he may be going by or gone by so they're working on that.

So, now, it's going to be sort of like an intelligence kind ever gathering and sort of reaching out to his family in Virginia to find out what they know about him.

So, I mean, I don't think anyone rid now thinks he was going to hurt Mr. Trump or do anything bad and really, the question now is, did he have some kind of psychiatric issue which sort of led to this?

BERMAN: Obviously, they have to take this very, very seriously even though he said he was a Trump supporter, all he wanted to do was meet Donald Trump. He is the Republican presidential nominee and they want to make sure that his safety wasn't compromised.

And, Shimon, just give us a sense of what security procedures and precautions are right now at Trump Tower between the New York Police Department and the Secret Service.

PROKUPECZ: So really, the Secret Service, they have a presence -- some presence outside, but the NYPD is in charge of securing that building. The problem with this building is that there are retail stores, right? So, people can come in and leave as they want. There's atriums. There is an outdoor area. So, people can come into that building without being checked. You

don't need to go through a metal detector. There's really no sort of -- there's no tight security. But the NYPD certainly remains a heavy, heavy presence outside the building with long guns and their critical response teams and their Hercules teams and the long gun.

But really, they can't stop anyone from entering the building because there are shops and tourist goes in there to shop and there is a restaurant in there. There is a Starbucks. So, it's really like almost like a little bit of a shopping mall. And so, that's sort of what the security is. They're outside and there 24 hours a day, you know, certainly Secret Service is there, as well, but NYPD watches. They watch everybody that comes into that building.

BERMAN: Paul Callan, we know this man right now in Bellevue Hospital under psychiatric evaluation and monitoring. What kind of legal trouble could he be in?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, this is not such an uncommon event, unfortunately in New York City. We have climbers here all of the time, the World Trade Center, Brooklyn Bridge, and New York Times Building. I was doing an arbitration in the New York Times Building, as a matter of fact, at about the 30th floor and the guy came walking right by the window with the suction cups. So, it happens.

But this is different because you have a presidential candidate living in this building and frankly, it's getting out of hand, and I think you'll see a felony charge probably dropped on him. He can be charged with criminal trespass on a misdemeanor level or they can escalate it to reckless endangerment, claiming that he could have hurt people on the ground had something dropped, and you also have to consider the enormous expense of shutting down Fifth Avenue in this area, the police force involved, the danger to the officers who had to pull him in.

So, it's something that really warrants a punishment if, you know, he's not found to be insane, which is also a possibility.

BERMAN: Christine Quinn, I want you to follow up on that point right there, as a longtime New Yorker, someone who has seen a lot of things in this city, you know, there were moments where there was a circuslike atmosphere, but this is very serious. People could have been hurt on the street. He could have been hurt. It tied up huge amounts of law enforcement resources. Windows were taken out of that building.

I wonder if you could speak to that and also, I mean, clearly, the ingenuity of the New York Police Department.

CHRISTINE QUINN, FORMER NYC CITY COUNCIL SPEAKER: I mean, really, the press conference that happened earlier with the P.D., the list of units that were there, they're the elite, elite NYPD member, the hostage negotiator, the emergency services, the critical response. And we have the best members of the NYPD there. And on top of that, you had to have a tremendous numbers of officers to close all of those streets and then to blow up two of the bags if he fell or jumped. I mean, really, we're talking about potentially hundreds of hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in those hours. And any of those officers, I mean, if you look at that, when they're window, one bad move and any of those officers could have been hurt by the glass or even, God forbid something more serious since they're on a high floor out a window.

You also have to think about the impact on Fifth Avenue merchants and stores. This is the summer holidays. A lot of tourists are going up and down Fifth Avenue and they were closed. So, some folks think, it's easy to say, you know, only in New York and make a joke about it, but this is very, very serious, and we are really lucky that we have such a terrific NYPD who were able to handle this professionally, quickly and without injury to the climber, to themselves and to anybody in the street.

BERMAN: You know, Philip Banks, you know, we always hear the New York Police Department, they train for everything. You know, they train for every possibility. They trained for this?

I mean, I was watching this unfold and they were pulling the windows out. On top of where he and was then to the side of where he was. They cornered him, to an extent right there. Is that something you train for?

PHILIP BANKS, RETIRED NYPD CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Absolutely. The emergency service trains for almost any type of incident that could happen. The intel that we get from other cities, we train even if it hasn't happened in New York City. They come up with a very coordinated detailed plan. The officers who were with the officer who grabbed him, they knew exactly when he was going to grab him and what they needed to do at that particular second.

And people say all the time, (INAUDIBLE) and they did a great job and my hat's off to them.

QUINN: And I just --

BERMAN: One more question to Philip Banks, if I can.

The difficult decision I imagine was the decision not to let him just keep climbing and at one point, they thought he might get tired out. But the decision to grab him, Chief, what do you think went into that?

BANKS: Well, there is a lot that went into that, and at some point when they're talking to him, and that could gauge whether or not they see an opening, whether this person now was going to comply, whether he is going to give up. They probably after speaking to him and taking everything he said to them and his body movements and how he was avoiding them, that this could go on for another hour or two or three and not only him.

One thing as the former speaker said, there were a lot of resources that are taken out and put here and other places in the city. Not only the impact in Manhattan and resources are flowing in and all of that is taken into consideration and at what point do we make a decision that we have to take this particular person and rescue him? And it was that very (INAUDIBLE)

QUINN: And I think the NYPD was also really smart by reaching out to the glaciers. Those are the folks who put the glass in, right? The construction workers who assemble glass buildings and in the press conference we heard the P.D. talked about reaching out to the glaciers, having glaciers on site, if you put both the suction cups on that little window, it's going to crack. You wouldn't know that unless you were a glacier. You wouldn't know where to cut the window.

So I applaud the NYPD for knowing and training and knowing what to do as we saw and knowing what they didn't know and knowing there was a New Yorker who would know.

CALLAN: And looking at it also, because I think people want to know, what's going to happen to this guy? I'm looking at cases that have gone down here in the city and there have been a huge number of them. A lot of them wind up with community service, sometimes a small fine, but always a very short jail sentence. So, it's not likely that something very serious will happen unless he was deliberately threatening Donald Trump.

BERMAN: All right. Paul Callan, Christine Quinn, and Chief Banks, Simone, thanks so much.

Just ahead, new fallout for Donald Trump after his remarks about Second Amendment people -- those were his words -- Second Amendment people stopping Hillary Clinton.

Later, Secretary Clinton, allegations of big donors to the Clinton Foundation paying for State Department access and yes, newly released e-mails.


[20:16:34] BERMAN: So while that guy was trying to scale Trump Tower, Donald Trump was trying to win votes in Virginia and now in Florida. He is also trying to put his controversial remarks behind him about what he called Second Amendment people stopping Hillary Clinton.

CNN's Sara Murray is traveling with the campaign. She joins us now from Sunrise, Florida.

Sara, has the Trump campaign commented on the Trump Tower climber so far?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, John, we don't have an official statement from the Trump campaign on this and they are not commenting, but we have heard from Michael Cohen, who is a special adviser to Donald Trump. He's with the Trump organization, also housed in Trump Tower, calling this a ridiculous and dangerous stunt, saying, "I'm 100 percent certain the NYPD had better things to do". So, it's very clearly, the Trump organization is not particularly happy with the fact that they had to deal with someone scaling the outside of their building as well as broken windows today, John.

BERMAN: They pulled out a lot of glass of that building. I'm sure they're not happen.

As for Mr. Trump's Second Amendment comments yesterday, is he addressing them at all?

MURRAY: Well, we're still waiting for Donald Trump to take the stage. He's running a bit late and we're waiting to see if he will talk about those on the stump tonight. He didn't do it at this event last night, but we have seen him take to Twitter, we have seen his campaign put out a statement.

One thing is clear, John, they want to make certain people know that Donald Trump is saying he was not talking about trying to incite violence. He is insisting that he was talking about consolidating -- as you are, Donald Trump should be taking the stage here any moment and we'll see if he addresses this controversy further.

BERMAN: We will watch and see if he addresses the controversy of the Second Amendment and also if he talks about the Trump Tower climber as well.

Sara Murray, thank you very much.

Hillary Clinton spoke for the first time about the Second Amendment issue today, addressing a crowd in Des Moines. She called it the latest in a long series of remarks that she says crossed the line.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Let me say something about what I think is a critical difference between my opponent and myself. Words matter, my friends. And if you are running to be president or you are president of the United States, words can have tremendous consequences.


BERMAN: Those consequences apparently include some kind of conversation with the Secret Service.

CNN's Jim Sciutto has been working his sources on that and joins us right now.

Jim, the United States Secret Service, you've been speaking with them, with sources who say yes, there has been a conversation with the Trump campaign about everything that he said yesterday. Donald Trump has been tweeting that, no, no such conversation happened.

What are you learning right now?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, all I can say is that an official with the U.S. Secret Service tells me that the Secret Service had conversations with Trump campaign staff regarding Donald Trump's comments on the Second Amendment, that there was more than one conversation on that topic.

I can also say that this official, again, with the United States Secret Service, tells me that the Trump campaign staff's response was similar to the public comments that he did not intend to incite violence. I've spoken to this official with the U.S. Secret Service several times today, including since Donald Trump's denial, but the source stands by the story and I stand by the reporting as we have it.

BERMAN: And, of course, former Secret Service officials will tell you that standard operating procedure will be to have some kind of conversation, or at least some kind of contact.

[20:20:06] You've been speaking to former agents as well. What are they saying?

SCIUTTO: That's exactly right.

BERMAN: First of all, when this happens, that this is part of the Secret Service's job. I spoke to several former Secret Service agents that when something like this is said, they at least have a sit down and if you or I would have made a comment like that, someone would have given us a call and had a conversation. That's what these former agents told me.

But they add this detail. They say that because Donald Trump is a public figure with a large following that there is greater potential, at least danger to those comments because more people are listening, and because he has a following and people listen to what he says, so that there would be a greater concern about the potential impact -- whatever the intention, whatever the intended meaning, the concern being that someone who is misguided would take the meaning differently and might act on it. That would be the concern and several former agents have told me exactly that.

BERMAN: And if this conversation did take place with the Secret Service would it end there and everyone moves on?

SCIUTTO: There would be no legal consequences to this. No one has said to me either current or former members of the U.S. Secret Service that there was a law broken here by those public comments. This is more in what they call their duty of care.

Secret Service agents have a job to protect the people they protect and that includes the two current candidates for president and it is part of that duty of care when they hear something, or see a statement, that's something they have to explore further. That's their job. It doesn't mean that you take it to a legal course, but to perform that duty of care, they have to chase all these things down.

And that's why I'm told by this official with the U.S. Secret Service that they had those conversations with the Trump campaign staff.

BERMAN: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much for your reporting.

SCIUTTO: Thank you. BERMAN: I want to bring in our panel right now. Trump supporter,

former South Carolina Lieutenant Governor Andre Bauer. Back with us, Clinton supporter, former New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, this time with her partisan hat on, "Washington Post" political reporter, Philip Bump, also here, Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany, conservative Trump critic Tara Setmayer, and Clinton supporter Richard Socarides, a former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton.

Andre, lieutenant governor, I want to start with you.

Donald Trump says he certainly wasn't implying or asking for any kind of violence here that his comments are being misconstrued. However, would it be worth at a minimum saying, you know what, if people took this the wrong way, I'm sorry, or I hope people didn't take this the wrong way or none of my supporters should take this the wrong way. No one should, just in case there's any doubt, don't take this the wrong way?

ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: It would be helpful. But I go back to when she said similar comments about Barack Obama when she was in a primary with him that we all know what's happened before in a California primary, referring to Robert Kennedy, much the same way and actually even more. I mean, he's -- I took it as I'm trying to -- the most powerful group of voters are probably NRA members, they work.

As a guy that's been endorsed by him before, I appreciate how hard they'll work in the trenches. And I think he was trying to motivate him and that's why he was having the rally.

But when you look that Hillary Clinton said something much worse than this, who wants to criticize him, it's amazing to me the hypocrisy.


BERMAN: But just the history here, when she did say it, she was severely criticized in the media and all over the political world, as well, and ultimately she apologized to the Kennedys in that case about that because she was referring to the assassination of RFK there. She apologized to the Kennedy.

So, this was something that she did, she was criticized for and she dealt with. Donald Trump hasn't gone that final step yet.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: He did, at 3:30 p.m., he made the comment. At 3:57 p.m., I have an e-mail, everyone in the media has an email in their inbox, with him explaining his comments.

QUINN: An explanation is not an apology.

MCENANY: What I meant was that NRA -- Second Amendment folks would use electoral power and political power he did explain it.

You know, the same didn't apply to Barack Obama, when in 2008, he said, if they bring a knife to the fight, we're going to bring a gun because folks in Philly like to a good brawl. When I hear that, that said to me violence. That wasn't explained. It wasn't scrutinized. And in fact, the only person who's used a term "assassination" in a

political context is exactly what you were referring to, Andre, when Hillary Clinton referred to the assassination of Robert Kennedy, in a way that was suggestive of a similar event happening --


RICHARD SOCARIDES, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: That is such a ridiculous comparison, I cannot believe that you can even make that statement without -- you know, without laughing about it. I mean, Hillary Clinton was making a historical reference to something that happened in history in the context of --


BAUER: No, she was setting I'm not getting out.

SOCARIDES: Within a primary campaign. Donald Trump was suggesting people take action after an election against a candidate.

What Hillary Clinton said in 2008 was she made an inopportune historical reference for which she immediately apologized and was not suggesting any violence.

[20:25:09] Barack Obama was not suggesting any violence. I mean, that is ridiculous.

MCENANY: Really? Folks in Philly like to have a good brawl.

SOCARIDES: Everybody knows what Mr. Trump was suggesting. So, it is ridiculous now that we're having a debate for a second night in a row now about what he was suggesting.

QUINN: The double standard here, Hillary said something which I agree with Richard, it was a historical statement, but should she have even said that? No.

BAUER: How is it historical?

QUINN: Hang on, Governor, nobody interrupted you, at least not me yet.

BAUER: Yes, ma'am.

QUINN: So thank you. I love that. Such a gentleman.

So, whatever you think of it being historical or not, she realized it was wrong and she apologized for it. And the difference is Donald Trump spun, he tried to say he made a statement urging gun rights supporters to vote. But in fact, what he said if you watch the tape is, when -- if Hillary wins, there will be nothing you can do. She'll pick the judges and you're out of luck. Nothing you can do except maybe for you Second Amendment folks.

So, he wasn't talking about voting. He was talking about a scenario if he and will a pray to God, lose the election. So, Donald Trump spun, explained, re-wrote history. Hillary realized

she made a mistake and apologized.

And part of being a leader is knowing you're a human being and you will make mistakes and owning them.

MCENANY: He doesn't need to apologize to you for misinterpreting his words.

QUINN: I didn't. You're spinning them.

MCENANY: No, I'm not. There are things that people can do that the NRA can do if, in fact, Hillary appoints liberal judges? Have you heard of amicus briefs? Have you ever heard of getting serve (ph) before the Supreme Court?

There are, in fact, things the NRA, the most powerful lobby in this country, can do to ensure that they get their guns.

You jump to assassination and he does not have to apologize to you for your misinterpretation.


QUINN: First of all, I don't want him to apologize to me for nothing ever because I wouldn't accept it. He has to apologize to America.

BERMAN: Tara Setmayer.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, one of the most basic axioms in politics is, if you're explaining, you're losing. That's number one.

Number two, Donald Trump clearly had a double entendre going on there with a wink and a nod, as David Gergen used the term dog whistle, with implying something that he knew, uh-oh, I better walk that back a little bit because if you listen to what he said two seconds after he said that, he said, oh, and that would be a horrible day.

Why would he have to say that if he didn't mean uh-oh, that could be taken in a way that was not exactly above board.

Thirdly, in all of those other instances the Secret Service was not involved. I'm sorry, unless you're claiming the Secret Service are a bunch of morons they interpreted it in a way to get involved. So, stop insulting our intelligence that nobody -- we're all a bunch of crazies that it could have been interpreted in a certain way. The head of the CIA interpreted it that way and a lot of other people in positions that are way more involved in these kinds of things.


BERMAN: Hang on! What we'll do is this --

SETMAYER: The fact that you can interpret it that way --

MCENANY: Maybe you don't think it's a horrible day when liberal justices are appointed.


BERMAN: We're going to take a break. We're going to take a break. We're going to take a break. We're going to hydrate.

Philip Bump is going to figure out if he wants or if he wants to be a part of this conversation and Anderson is going to figure out if he wants to come back from vacation, and we're going to come back and discuss a lot more.

Including, Secretary Clinton is trying to turn a red state blue, perhaps? Is that an actual possibility? Is Georgia genuinely, for real in play? That's next.


[20:32:34] BERMAN: We are talking Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Second Amendment, and now, polling. Lost in the shuffle of all the headlines today, there is new swing state polling and maybe if you believe the Clinton campaign, new swing states.

So, let's bring back the panel, Philip Bump of "The Washington Post" right now. We hear that the Clinton campaign is going to devote money, time, resources, humans to Georgia and Arizona, especially, Georgia. Georgia is a state that voted for Bill Clinton once, but otherwise has been pretty red. So, is this for real?

PHILIP BUMP, "WASHINGTON POST" POLITICAL REPORTER: I think it is more for real than we might have expected six months ago. And, you know, well, we'll point out that Georgia has been trending more Democratic. The demographics have been shifting in the state over the course of the past couple of decades. It's been trending more Democratic and now we're seeing after the conventions at least three polls, one showing a tie, two of them showing Clinton with the lead in the state, which I think is believable. I mean, we were just talking about Donald Trump and Donald Trump's campaign and he's not running a very robust campaign, whereas Hillary Clinton is running a very strong campaign.

Part of this may also be trying to get them to put resources into Georgia if they ever put resources anywhere, which they haven't yet. But trying to do a fit (ph) and get them to put resources into Georgia to spend time there, to spend time there, but the poll suggests, she could actually win it.

BERMAN: The word paint is the one that I'm picking up on, at least the one I'm keyed in on right now. Speaking of the Executive Director of the Democratic Party in Georgia today and I asked her, "Is Hillary Clinton coming to Georgia?" We'd love to have her. Is she coming? We'd love to have her. Is she on the schedule? No. So, you know, call me when Hillary Clinton's going to Georgia.

BUMP: Yeah, totally fair. But, I mean, again, to the extent that the Clinton campaign, particularly in this moment, when what she's trying to do, she's trying to get Republicans onto her team, she's trying to get people to abandoned Donald Trump, through the extent that she can make it seem even more likely that Donald Trump is going to lose by reinforcing that Georgia is a close race, that could get more Republicans onboard with her team saying this Trump guy, he's a lost cause because they see she's doing things like spending money in Georgia. It's a smart move, but it also -- there are polls back it up.

BERMAN: Lieutenant Governor, you know, you live nearby.

BAUER: I'm encouraging to do -- for them to do the same in South Carolina. Please come spend a bunch of money on helping her.

BERMAN: Do you think it's for real?

BAUER: In South Carolina, her supporters could meet in a phone booth.

BERMAN: Let me ask you this, though. Is there anywhere where Donald Trump is playing offense right now on the electoral map? Because Georgia, Arizona, would clearly be -- even North Carolina is a state that Hillary Clinton doesn't need, but she's playing in right now. Does Donald Trump have any state like that?

[20:35:00] BAUER: I can't think of any -- I mean, you know, he's got these states that historically, or in the last free elections, Republicans haven't been able to win that he's still playing in, and so, hopefully those are the ones where he actually gets the nuggets he needs to get to the vote count.

BUMP: I'd throw Pennsylvania into that category, although, there's a bunch of new polls in Pennsylvania showing Trump down by 10 points, so he has been focusing there. It has been a blue state and looks like it's going to stay blue.

QUINN: And, you know, on the Georgia decision, look, is it a head fake or not? I don't know. We'll see that in time if it is. It's a clever one -- very, very clever, but one thing we know, whatever side of this race you're on, Robby Mook is good at the numbers, Hillary's campaign manager. He's known for being really good at the numbers and understanding them and understanding trends. So, if they're spending money in Georgia and they don't spend money willy-nilly at the campaign and it shouldn't, I think there's much more to that than a head fake because Robby doesn't mess around.

SOCARIDES: This place is like -- it's the fact that in places like Virginia where Tim Kaine is from where Hillary is, you know, pulling out in that state. I mean, that state is always a very competitive state and a state where Democrats and Republicans both have to spend money. If you don't have spend -- if Democrats don't have to spend money to win Virginia, they can go to these other states and they can go to Georgia and that's why, you know, I've worked on a number of these campaigns, I've worked on both President Clinton's races and they are like chess games. You know, I mean, you -- but one state is in play, you move around, you move money around here, move money around there.

I mean, and then if Trump is forced to compete, I mean, like a state like Georgia, he cannot win, certainly, the presidency without a state like Georgia. So, if he's forced to compete and put resources in Florida, but the truth is he's not running that kind of campaign. You know, I mean, he's not running a traditional ...

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, not yet, but I did know -- I do know that Trump is spending money on data analytics, which he made fun of before, but now, they feel that they need to invest in that, which shows you that they're going look to microtarget in certain places. And he's down by six in Virginia, he's down by four in Iowa, he's down by 15 in Wisconsin, he's down by 11 in Pennsylvania. When you -- if you -- with those kinds of numbers and you still -- you have to compete in traditionally red states like Georgia and Arizona, it doesn't look good for him. So, they need to get a ground game going. They've got all this money, they brag about raising, but he's not spending any of it. So, it's all about getting people to vote.

BERMAN: Time to spend it. All right, guys, stick around. Just ahead, nearly 300 pages of e-mails released calling into question whether the relationship between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department led to any kind of political favoritism. Donald Trump, of course, is -- some harsher phrasing of what's in the e-mails. Drew Griffin investigates next.


[20:41:23] BERMAN: It's a scandal that Hillary Clinton just can't seem to put in the deleted file once and for all. A conservative watchdog group has released 296 pages of e-mails that raising questions about the relationship between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department while Hillary Clinton served as secretary of state. Donald Trump is already pouncing on this at a campaign stop in Virginia. He called it very serious stuff and pay for play. The Clinton campaign has a different take on the latest release.

CNN Senior Investigative Correspondent Drew Griffin reports.


DREW GRIFFIN, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: There are nearly 300 pages of e-mails. Some of them show just how easy it was for Clinton donors to get Clinton favors. Case in point, Gilbert Chagoury, he's a Nigerian Lebanese billionaire seen here with Bill Clinton at the opening ceremonies for the Chagoury brother's multibillion dollar waterfront development in Nigeria.

The project done under the umbrella of the Clinton Global Initiative to reclaim Nigeria's coastline. The Chagourys and Bill Clinton go way back. Gilbert Chagoury is listed as donating between $1 million and $5 million to the Clinton family foundation and in this new batch of e-mails it seems Gilbert Chagoury could use his connections to open doors.

In 2009, Chagoury wanted to connect with a top U.S. official about Lebanon. Doug Band who was heading the Clinton Foundation at the time stepped in to help. He e-mailed Hillary Clinton's top aides at the U.S. State Department, Cheryl Mills and Huma Abedin asking that Gilbert Chagoury be placed in touch with the State Department's substance person on Lebanon.

Band who once interned for Mills reminds both Hillary Clinton aides that Chagoury is a key guy there and to us and he's asking Abedin call Jeffrey Feltman, the former U.S. ambassador to Lebanon so the Clinton donor and the ambassador can connect.

Reached by CNN, former Ambassador Feltman said, "I have never met nor spoken with Mr. Chagoury. I was not aware of the proposal that he speak to me until this e-mail exchange was released." In the e-mails, there are Clinton Foundation request for a favor in finding someone a job, paying attention to someone whose ambassadorship was turned down. And intermingling of e-mails between state, the Clinton Foundation and others giving the overall effect that it's really hard to tell where any lines are drawn.

Scott Amey with the project on government oversight says, "Even if no legal lines are crossed, optics matter."

SCOTT AMEY, PROJECT ON GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT: Government employees have rules that apply. They're supposed to avoid actual conflicts of interest but they're also supposed to avoid appearances of conflicts of interest.

GRIFFIN: The Clinton campaign said of Judicial Watch, "No matter how this group tries to mischaracterize these documents, the fact remains that Hillary Clinton never took action as Secretary of State because of donations to the Clinton Foundation."


BERMAN: All right. Drew Griffin is with us now. And Drew, the campaign says that Hillary Clinton did not do any State Department favors as an exchange for Clinton Foundation donations, but do we do any -- do we know any more about why Mr. Chagoury, the billionaire wanted to be in touch with the State Department?

GRIFFIN: First, we should give credit to Judicial Watch, John, for getting these e-mails released. They sued, that's part of the whole campaign here. And when they say, the campaign says, you know, this is just a right-wing group, how to get Hillary Clinton

Now, according to the campaign, Gilbert Chagoury wanted to give the U.S. State Department his insights on an upcoming Lebanese election. That's what the Clinton campaign is telling us tonight and they're saying it didn't involve any requests for a favor, John.

[20:45:05] BERMAN: All right, Drew Griffin, a lot more to talk about ahead including this.

Plus, Donald Trump, as well. Is he the most misunderstood presidential candidate in U.S. history whether it's when it really looks like he's making fun of a disabled reporter or when he says that American born judge can't do his job because of his Mexican heritage, time and time again. Trump says what you just heard him say isn't what he said. We'll take a closer look, next.


BERMAN: Hillary Clinton today called Donald Trump's Second Amendment remarks part of a pattern of saying things that crossed the line. Trump and his campaign say they're simply being misunderstood. Now, you can make up of what you will, but one thing is pretty clear, which is that Trump does provided a lot of material before we bring you the greatest hits as it were, it's worth taking another look at the latest one so you can decide for yourself if you have it already what you think he meant.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish, the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick -- if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks.

[20:50:00] Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know. But ...


BERMAN: Now, what that means is open to dispute, what's indisputable though is that it's either the first time for Donald Trump nor the first time he's claimed that we just don't understand. More from "360's" Randi Kaye.


TRUMP: Now the poor guys, you got to see this guy. I don't know what I said. I don't remember. He's going, I don't remember. Maybe that's what I said.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Critics called out Trump for mocking the man's disability. Trump insisted otherwise.

TRUMP: All of a sudden, I get reports that I was imitating a reporter that was handicapped. I would never do that. I would never do that.

KAYE: Trump vowed he'd never met Kovaleski even though the report says he closely covered Trump for years and was on a first name basis with him. Still, Trump called it a coincidence.

TRUMP: I didn't know what he looked like. I didn't know that he was disabled. I didn't know it. I didn't know it at all.

KAYE: Trump also took heat for saying this about Megyn Kelly of Fox News following a debate.

TRUMP: She starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions and, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eye, blood coming out of her wherever.

KAYE: Critics charged he was referring to menstruation. Trump insisted it was a big misunderstanding.

TRUMP: I was going to say nose and or ears, because that's a very common statement, blood flowing out of somebody's nose. It's a statement showing anger.

KAYE: After this comment on abortion ...

CHRIS MATTHEW, TALK SHOW HOST: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEW: For the woman.

TRUMP: Yeah. There has to be some form.

KAYE: Trump issued a statement saying he believes the doctor, not the woman should be held legally responsible. He also told "The New York Times" he misspoke. Saying, "I'm asked hundreds of questions a day, and every once in a while, if you misspeak, I was very focused on the topic of the Catholic Church.

Did Trump also misspeak when he suggested the judge presiding over the Trump University case should step down? Judge Gonzalo Curiel was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants and Trump is against illegal immigration. Trump told the "The Wall Street Journal" in June, "I'm building a wall. It's an inherent conflict of interest."

Critics meld racism. Trump said his words were misunderstood. It is unfortunate that my comments have been misconstrued as a categorical attack against people of Mexican heritage. Trump backtrack again after calling on Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's e-mails suggesting perhaps that Russian hackers could recover some of her e-mails.

TRUMP: Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.

KAYE: Such a suggestion is illegal and violates U.S. laws. Not to mention the security risks involved. Trump later explained it was all just a joke.

TRUMP: And when I'm being sarcastic was ...


TRUMP: Of course, I'm being sarcastic.

KAYE: Just another misunderstanding.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.


BERMAN: All right, thanks to Randi. Back now with our panel. Kayleigh McEnany, you know, Donal0d Trump is someone who likes to say he speaks clearly, you know, plain spoken English that the people understand. But for someone who speaks plainly, he seems to be misunderstood or misconstrued a lot.

MCENANY: Yeah, I think he speaks his mind. He's not used to having tightly focused tested words like Hillary Clinton who we can't believe anything that comes out of her mouth.

Take for instance 10 days ago, she told Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday" that she had no connection between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation, (inaudible) find out that was not true. The 44 e-mails that she said she turned overall work related e-mails. We get 44 new e-mails today. She didn't turn overall work related e- mails, they reveal. In fact, the head of -- one of the heads of the Clinton Foundation was in fact asking for favors for billionaire donors.

I am more concern not with Trump misspeaks when he speaks from the heart or says something incorrectly, I'm more concerned with mistruths and outright lies, which we see from the Clinton campaign seemingly on a daily basis now.

SETMAYER: Well, we see that on the daily basis from Donald Trump also. Yes, all of those things are true. Hillary Clinton is a liar and so as Donald Trump, which is why so many people are dismayed in this election by the two choices.

When you look at this -- you look at polling across the board and you have 60, 50, 60 percent of people don't think she's truthful and they don't think Donald Trump is either. So this is a problem. I think this going back and forth that, well, just because, you know, it doesn't excuse Donald Trump's misconstrued when she said often, just because Hillary Clinton does it too.

I mean -- we can -- there are so many more than just that package where Donald Trump doesn't tell the truth. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth depending on what audience he's in front of.

So, this is something that I think is problematic. And instead of making excuses for what Donald Trump says, there need -- you need to call him out and say, "Enough. You need to speak and admit when you're wrong and stop misrepresenting thing."

[20:55:00] Everyone is not stupid. And that is the insulting part about this.


BERMAN: ... Christine is shouting over here, first Richard.

QUINN: Never, never. Thank you, thank you.

You know, I -- in response to what Kayleigh said, I am kind of worried that what Donald Trump says is what he thinks. You know, there is somewhat people say, well, I've told you -- I kind of think the folks who say this campaign is run by Donald Trump, he's a straight shooter. He says what he means. I fear that's true.

BEUAR: Well, then, in that argument -- sorry again. QUINN: No ...


BEUAR: In that argument, he didn't say NRA folks go out and do this. And so, if he's a straight shooter, you're asking for a both ways.


BERMAN: As far as the American people are concerned ...

QUINN: But he did humiliate a disabled reporter.

BERMAN: As far as the trust and honestly or a casualty in this campaign, I mean both candidates right now, you know, 64 percent roughly of the American voters here, you can see it right there. As if to prove what I'm saying is true, 64 percent, you know, do not find either candidate honest or trustworthy. That is almost beyond belief, Philip ...

BUMP: Yeah.

BERMAN: ... when you look at it right now.

BUMP: Yeah, I mean, it also reinforces this idea that there are the least popular candidates that have run for president in modern history which is true. And it's why most Trump supporters say they're voting for Trump, because they oppose Hillary Clinton. One of the bright spots of Clinton's campaign right now is that she now has -- most of her supporters saying they actually like her as a candidate, which has been a change at the conventions.

But I think it's important to remember that part of Donald Trump's problem is that he is his campaign. There is no other campaign besides Donald Trump and what he says. And so, everyday he gets out there and he hates to stick talking points, he hates to read off the teleprompter, so he says things that he thinks are interesting, and he tries to be engaging. He tries to appeal to the audience. But the problem is, there's no ads running anywhere. He doesn't really have a huge network of surrogates across the country. It is him. He is the campaign. And everything that he says then has to be defended and he's unwilling to admit when he makes a mistake.


BERMAN: Well, both candidates, both candidates, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton give us a lot to talk about. It's good we have another hour. More just ahead on "360", including new and potentially controversial remarks from Donald Trump, this time about President Obama, including our breaking news too. A man scales Trump Tower in New York with suction cups. Really just an amazing moment what police did to stop him. That's coming up.