Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Trump Calls President Obama Founder of ISIS; Hillary Clinton Lays Out Economic Plan. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 11, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Contrast to the plan rolled out earlier this week in Detroit from her rival, Donald Trump, who emphasized America first when he detailed his economic policies on Monday.

In fact, Hillary Clinton dedicated much of her time today bringing down Mr. Trump's plan, as she explained how her proposals will prop up the middle class.

A couple of bullet points for you. She said today she wants to implement paid family leave, preschool for 4-year-olds, a way for students to attend public universities debt-free, not tuition-free, but debt-free, an expansion of Social Security to some family members, and an increase in the minimum wage to somewhere between $12 and $15 an hour.

But we have heard this before. We heard her tout this again, this mega-$275 billion government investment to rebuild America's roads and bridges and ultimately also creating some 10 million jobs, she says.

How does she plan to do all of this? More taxes on the really rich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We should also add a new tax on multimillionaires, crack down on tax gaming by corporations, and close the carried interest loophole, something I have advocated for years.

Now, compare what Trump says. Now, there is a myth out there that he will stick it to the rich and powerful because somehow he's really on the side of the little guy. Don't believe it, not when he pledges to rip up basic rules that hold corporations accountable, when he wants to scrap regulations that stop polluters from poisoning the air our children breathe the water we drink, let insurance companies write their own rules again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, so she spoke for quite a while there today. But let's just put the words through a fact-check test here.

I have got CNN's Tom Foreman, who has been very carefully going line by line, some of her key points. Tom Foreman, reality check. What did you find?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the things that certainly had to light up a lot of voters out there was this promise that somehow she would help working-class families do a better job getting their kids to college. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: And it's crucial that every American have access to the education and skills they need to get the jobs of the future. So we will fight to make college tuition-free for the middle class and debt- free for everyone.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: This claim about tuition-free for the middle class, well, first of all, you have to look at her definition of the middle class. What she's talking about is families making $125,000 or less. Tuition-free if -- that's for in-state tuition at a public institution.

So if you buy this definition that this is the middle class, which means if you are a dual-income working family and you and your partner are each making $65,000 each, you don't qualify. You're upper-class under this. But if you buy this definition, then you can say the verdict on the first claim is true.

But then think about the second part of what she said here. Here's what's not covered under that plan, not now. Room and board, fees, books or supplies. At those same state schools, all of this can easily be more than the cost of tuition.

Yes, they're talking about all sorts of other ways to maybe cover this, but this really undermines this idea that it will be debt-free for all. That's what she said. That's an exaggeration. Her plan does not show how that would happen. That part is false.

There is an awful lot more here, Brooke, that we checked on Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump as well. Go to our Web site, CNN.com/realitycheck and get the reality on all of these claims out there -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Tom Foreman, I know you and the team are going to keep working on that. We will continue to look for you on that. Thank you very much.

Let me bring in two more voices.

I have Wilbur Ross next to me, one of Trump's senior economic advisers. Also back with us, Ali Velshi, global affairs and economic analyst.

So, welcome back. And nice to meet you, sir.

WILBUR ROSS, TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: Good to meet you.

BALDWIN: I know I see copious notes on Hillary Clinton's speech. But just out of the gate, I would love to ask you, as a billionaire, you know a thing about taxes, tax returns.

ROSS: Right.

BALDWIN: You're advising Mr. Trump. Do you think he should share his tax returns?

ROSS: I don't think it matters. They have already publish returns for earlier years showing that he didn't pay any tax. Most real estate people don't pay any tax.

I don't think that's any big deal.

BALDWIN: But you can understand why people then say, if it's no big deal, let's show everyone?

[15:05:00]

ROSS: Well, to me, that's not as bad as the secrets of laundering money through the Canadian entity into the Clinton Foundation, hundreds of millions of dollars so no one knows who the donors are. Let's put things in proportion about disclosure.

BALDWIN: No, and we're getting into the latest report today on the e- mails and the DOJ and the FBI, trust me.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSS: She's hardly one to talk about disclosure.

BALDWIN: Is Mr. Trump paying taxes?

ROSS: I have no idea if he is or isn't. You ought to address that to him. I certainly am.

BALDWIN: I would love to. Maybe we can chat later.

My next question, though, you're advising him on trade.

ROSS: Yes.

BALDWIN: So if he is saying he essentially wants to cut trade, how does he though in the sense up trade for this country?

ROSS: Well, first of all, he didn't say he wants to cut trade. If you read his trade speech from a couple of months ago, what he actually said was, if it is found, if, if it is found that China is manipulating their currency by as much as 45 percent, and if they're not willing to negotiate, then it may be necessary to threaten them with a much as a 45 percent tariff. But your network and others have put that totally out of context,

saying Trump's going to levy 45 percent tax on all Chinese goods.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: With all due respect, I don't think we put it out of context. But that's why we wanted to talk to you. You're the man.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSS: Hillary says words matter. Those are the words he spoke.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let me ask you this, because this is -- you are a negotiator. You have been involved in trade. Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump say they don't really like TPP as it is. That doesn't include China.

What is the answer? We don't have a big enough economy in the United States to make all of us wealthy and prosperous just by selling to each other, so we need to sell to other countries, and those countries' citizens have to be prosperous, which means they want to sell their goods and services to us.

These trade deals, as you know, take years and years to negotiate. And, typically speaking, good people are around the table, smart people, figuring them out. What's the answer? Because if we become protectionists, even guys like you can't make the same kind of money. And it may not matter to a guy like you. But...

ROSS: First of all, nobody is saying be protectionist.

What people are saying -- what we're saying is have the sensible process. Here's what a trade deal ought to have as part of it. Number one, each side should make forecasts what will be the economic impact on its country going forward. Then there should be an automatic look-back after five years.

And if there's been a gross distortion in one way or another, there should be an automatic readjustment. Third, there should be enforcement mechanisms. We have yet to have a trade agreement that has an enforcement mechanism that amounts to anything. If you have...

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Well, the original free trade agreement between Canada and the U.S. did. NAFTA does.

ROSS: NAFTA does not have teeth to enforcement. Tell me what the teeth are.

VELSHI: Well, they have got enforcement. They have got panels.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSS: Panels. Panels.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: They have imposed countervailing duties on soft wood lumber. You know that.

ROSS: Sure, on a few little things. But the reality, our trade deficit as a result of NAFTA has...

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: I hear you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And then I want to get to what she said about taxes.

VELSHI: It is not about an enforcement issue. The trade imbalances are about labor shifts, about labor costs. It is not because Canada is cheating the U.S.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSS: That isn't true. Mexico had no trade surplus with us prior to NAFTA. Now they have $60 billion a year trade surplus.

VELSHI: Because they have lower labor rates than we do.

ROSS: Their rates have gone up faster than the rates...

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: But they're still lower than ours in the United States.

ROSS: But what they do to extenuate it? They created these maquiladoras, these factories near the American border. Those factories pay no value-added tax on goods brought in, not even on the equipment they use to manufacture, and no tariff.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: You and I have to sit and talk.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We appreciate that.

ROSS: There are all sorts abuses that go on every single day.

VELSHI: Right. I just want to know what the answer is, because we -- it sounds protectionist. Sounds like we're going to bring jobs back, we're going to make everything in America. It doesn't -- your answer is more sophisticated than Donald Trump's. Maybe he could talk like you.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSS: His job is to set broad policy. The job of people advising him is to fill in the blanks with the details. He's well aware of my exact formula.

He authorized me to put an editorial in the Pittsburgh newspaper "Post-Gazette" a week ago Monday, on CNBC.com, and there is one going in "The Detroit Free Press" in the morning.

BALDWIN: Mr. Ross, if I may, just final question, because you obviously -- you're the one helping filling in the gaps. You are the expert, you know the details, you are talking about him having broad policy. He did give that trade speech. He gave a speech with great detail on Monday from Detroit.

[15:10:00]

Do you get frustrated sometimes with him for stepping on his message?

ROSS: Well, his style and mine are very different.

But that's why he's running for president, and I'm a private equity guy.

BALDWIN: OK.

ROSS: But I will tell you one thing that he did do that he doesn't get any credit for. He told me and the other private equity people supporting him, our tax rates are going to go up. We will not be benefiting from the 15 percent...

VELSHI: Carried interest.

ROSS: ... tax. The carried interest rate will be 33 percent, the maximum individual rate. So at least this billionaire, he's not subsidizing.

BALDWIN: OK.

Wilbur Ross and Ali Velshi, thank you. Thank you very much.

VELSHI: All right.

BALDWIN: We mentioned Hillary Clinton's e-mails and here we go. This is the breaking news on that today. We are learning the FBI actually wanted to open a corruption case against the Clinton Foundation. The Department of Justice looked at it. They refused. Why is that and what's the fallout from this today in looking ahead?

Also ahead, Donald Trump, he is tripling down on this false claim that President Obama is the founder of ISIS. Hillary Clinton has just responded. We have that for you.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:22]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Donald Trump, he is under fire for inaccurately calling President

Obama the founder of ISIS. Not once. Not twice. But three times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He was the founder, absolutely the founder. In fact, he gets the -- in sports, they have awards. He gets the most valuable player award, him and Hillary.

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Last night, you said the president was the founder of ISIS. I know what you meant. You meant that he created the vacuum, he lost the peace.

TRUMP: No, I think he's the founder of ISIS. I do. He's the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award.

I call President Obama and Hillary Clinton the founders of ISIS. They're the founders. In fact, I we will give Hillary Clinton the -- if you're a sports team, most valuable player, MVP. You get the MVP award.

ISIS will hand her the most valuable player award. Her only competition is Barack Obama, between the two of them.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We have now heard from Hillary Clinton on Twitter, calling it, all of this a smear campaign against President Obama.

With me now, Van Jones, CNN political commentator, Boris Epshteyn, senior adviser for the Trump campaign.

Good to see both of you.

You look like you're teed up for me. You're ready. You're ready. You know I'm going to tell you he's wrong, he's wrong, he's wrong.

BORIS EPSHTEYN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Actually, I think the caption is really wonderful today.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You like that? "Trump calls Obama founder of ISIS. He's not," because that is correct.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: And this is actually a serious matter. We're laughing. It's obvious what he means.

He's laughing. The most valuable player thing, he's talking about the fact that ISIS was born and has mushroomed, absolutely, under Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton's watch. She's running on her time as secretary of state. BALDWIN: But you know Hugh Hewitt on the radio pushed him on that and said, well, certainly meaning maybe the vacuum that was created, and he essentially said, no, literally, he's the founder.

EPSHTEYN: He also said he should get the MVP, and then Hillary should get the MVP. They're getting co-MVPs.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You didn't answer my question.

EPSHTEYN: The answer to your question it -- and this is wonderful to do in the 3:00 hour, right? We're all having fun. The serious answer to the question is...

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're having fun.

EPSHTEYN: ... he was driving the message home and the message needs to be driven home. She's running on her record.

Her record is ISIS. That's her record. The world and the country are so much less safe because of Hillary Clinton and because of Barack Obama.

JONES: Listen, I think if he wants to be the stand-up comic in chief, he's doing a great job. Unfortunately, ISIS is a very serious matter.

Listen, this is inappropriate. One thing we should be united on is that every American and frankly every human being on the planet with a functioning heart and brain stem is opposed to ISIS. To pretend that the president of the United States is anything but opposed to these butchers, I just think is further dividing the country for no reason.

If he has a critique he wants to make on the president's handling of ISIS, bring it. But let me tell you something. If he is the founder of ISIS, he is...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But the critique exists. I immediately go to that calling them J.V. however many years ago.

EPSHTEYN: That's right.

BALDWIN: There's plenty out there.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: Allowing Libya to become a failed state, allowing Syria to become effectively a failed state.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: But here's what I think we don't talk about enough. ISIS is actually being rolled back.

BALDWIN: And 45,000 ISIS fighters have been killed since the war began.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: Yes.

So, listen, if Obama's the founder, he's fired more people literally with drones than Trump ever fired for his stuff. Listen, this is very important for people to know. We actually are -- the United States military and special operations people are doing an incredible job of rolling them back. They have lost half their territory.

They have lost 100 of their top leaders. They have lost 4,500 fighters and they are losing ground every day. We should be united in supporting our military on that. Instead, what we're doing is, what's happened is that because they're losing territory, they're now doing these -- from their point of view pinprick strikes.

They're horrible for us, we hate them. But to pretend that the president of the United States is responsible for all of this is wrong. The terrorists are responsible for terrorism.

BALDWIN: Let me just throw one more question at you and then you can respond.

EPSHTEYN: Sure.

BALDWIN: Then why -- why at the rally Mr. Trump said Barack Hussein Obama?

EPSHTEYN: I'm not in his head. I can't tell you why he says...

BALDWIN: What's he trying to do?

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: ... man's full name. He's using his name. Talk about the issue.

And Van is correct. This is the most serious issue facing our country in terms of...

BALDWIN: What was he suggesting with that, because he doesn't do that very often?

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: In terms of the name? You would have to ask him.

[15:20:01]

But what I will tell you that is the pin strikes you're talking about, they're a big deal. They're a big deal to me.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: They're a big deal to Orlando. JONES: We agree on that.

BALDWIN: Yes.

EPSHTEYN: We do. We can't do what France is doing, where they said we have to live with this now. We as a country -- that's what the president of France said, this is the new normal.

John Kerry actually said effectively that's the new normal. We as a country cannot be allowed...

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: Just let me finish.

JONES: OK.

EPSHTEYN: And what Barack Obama has done is that he has instilled this sense of we have to live with these sort of strikes.

But we don't have to. And as far as what's happening with ISIS, they're in 20 countries now. The amount of countries they're in is expanding. And maybe we're making progress on one side, but they did not exist before Barack Obama...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Quickly, because then I want to get to Clinton's e-mails.

JONES: Well, frankly, according to Donald Trump himself, the responsible party is George W. Bush.

They found the interview of him saying the responsible party for the whole destabilization is George W. Bush. Now he is running for president, he doesn't attack George W. Bush. He wants to blame it on Hillary Clinton or Obama.

I think it is very important for us. I don't mind having a conversation about the right way to deal with this, but when you start telling the world that the president of the United States is responsible for ISIS and founded ISIS, it is just wrong, it is inappropriate. Doesn't help the debate.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang tight. Hang tight. Stand by.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We are learning more on Hillary Clinton. The FBI was planning on opening a corruption case against the Clinton Foundation. The Department of Justice pushed back. Why did they push back? What's the fallout here? We will discuss that coming up next.

Also ahead, his dramatic act. Were you in Trump Tower yesterday?

EPSHTEYN: I was.

BALDWIN: All eyes focused on the New York skyline. And now the man with his suction cups who just about got to the tip-top, he is now under arrest facing charges. We have new details how he got to New York and what he brought with him.

Seriously?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:20]

BALDWIN: We are just learning today that the FBI and top Justice Department officials met a couple of months ago to discuss opening a public corruption case in to the Clinton Foundation.

The FBI wanted the investigation to move forward, but we are now learning that the Department of Justice is turning down the FBI's request to look into the dealings of the Clintons. The focus of the FBI's interest apparently was the potential of criminal conflict of interests between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation during Hillary Clinton's tenure as secretary of state.

But, again, the DOJ saying there is not enough evidence to lead to any sort of investigation there.

Van and Boris are back with me.

Thoughts?

EPSHTEYN: Houston, she's got a problem. That's a thought. This is a real issue. This is the second time in a month now that the DOJ is squashing -- that there's news of DOJ squashing an investigation.

You could agree with Director Comey or disagree with Director Comey. I will tell you as a lawyer I would have been indicted if I would have done the things Hillary Clinton did. But Director Comey thought differently.

On this issue, with all the news that has come out on the e-mails -- and there will be more coming out -- there is very clearly a conflict of interests. And the fact that Loretta Lynch is the head of the DOJ and Hillary Clinton has promised that she would remain head if she's president, it is a huge issue and a huge conflict of interests.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: Look, I just think the fact that we are having this discussion about the Clinton Global Initiative, as if the Clinton Global Initiative is the center of some massive conspiracy, is -- that is the triumph of a lot off right-wing talking points.

Let me tell you a little bit about the Clinton Global Initiative. I happen to know a lot about it. This is an absolutely fantastic organization.

BALDWIN: That the FBI thought about investigating and wanted to investigate.

JONES: Let me be very candid.

We beat Donald Trump up a lot because his words are sometimes not precise, and we want him to have impeccable standard with regard to his words. Hillary Clinton has the opposite problem. She's not meeting that impeccable standard with regards to her deeds and her activities.

It's sloppy. I don't think it's criminal. And I bet there wasn't enough evidence to do it. But the problem the Clintons have is that they have so many people around them who are connected to them, who say, I am a friend of Bill, I am a friend of Hillary. They put these e-mails around. And it looks sloppy.

And they haven't done a good enough job of slapping people down when they do that, so it creates this sort of cloud.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But the sloppiness is the problem, Van Jones.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: The Clintons are in this narrative, too, for 40 years.

There are scandals about the Clintons going back...

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: And what have they been convicted of? Not one thing.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: ... gone to jail on Whitewater, on Savings & Loan.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: We're not going to debate Whitewater 25 years later. What I will say...

EPSHTEYN: I'm happy to talk about the foundation. Doug Band is the one that sent that e-mail.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: He's not just some guy. He ran the foundation.

JONES: Here's the deal. Here's the deal. If there were evidence to move forward, trust me, Loretta Lynch is not trying to throw herself on a hand grenade for the Clintons.

EPSHTEYN: Why not?

JONES: I guarantee you, because...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Van.

JONES: Because she is the top law enforcement agent in the country. She is the top cop in America.

If there were evidence there, the reality is, she knows, in the world of leaking, that evidence would get out and she would look terrible.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me ask you this, because now we are hearing, as we have been tipped off that there would be more from the WikiLeaks of the e- mails.

Apparently, this will include, in some time -- and I'm looking -- I was just handed cyber-intrusions targeting Democratic Party organizations included a breach of private e-mail accounts of a number of Democratic Party officials, some with direct ties to the Clinton campaign, according to an official familiar with the investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: The Trump/Putin ticket, that's what we're dealing with.

EPSHTEYN: Oh, come on, Van.

JONES: It's the Trump/Putin ticket.

And the Russians apparently -- they don't do this to the Republicans. Notice, the Russians are not hacking Trump. They're not hacking the RNC. They're not hacking you. They're hacking Democrats.