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NEW DAY SATURDAY
Trump: If I Lose Pennsylvania, It's Because Clinton Cheated; Clinton, Kaine Take Aim At Trump on Taxes; Katie Ledecky Wins Gold, Smashes World Record; Trump Lashes Out Over Media Bias; 3 Dead in Louisiana Floods, More Rain Coming. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired August 13, 2016 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:20] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, welcome to Saturday. We're so grateful to see you. I'm Christi Paul.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. Your NEW DAY starts right now.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The only way we could lose in my opinion, I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: This is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He refuses to do what every other presidential candidate in decades has done and release his tax returns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of folks out here say they didn't expect to happen this way. They thought they get a raid and some flooding maybe up to their front porches. Terrifying scene out there in St. Helena Parish. At this point, more rain to come.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Phelps making Olympic history again. Breakout star Simone Manuel also making history, becoming the first African-American woman ever to win an individual swimming event.
BLACKWELL: In his bid to be president, Donald Trump is staring down a significant challenge in some key battleground states. Down double digits in Colorado, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, in the latest NBC/"Wall Street Journal/Marist poll.
But today, Trump will head to a state that will likely be more favorable to Hillary Clinton this November, Connecticut.
PAUL: You know, Trump's campaign manager says Connecticut is in play, but the last it voted for Republican was in 1988 for George H.W. Bush.
CNN's Chris Frates joining us now. So, Chris, even though Trump is in Connecticut, we cannot miss the headline that he's making, some very serious charges about the state of the 2016 race in Pennsylvania.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right, Christi.
You know as well as I do that when Donald Trump is ahead in the polls, he'll be the first to tell you those surveys are tremendous, they're fantastic. But when he's losing, well, then he'll argue the system is rigged.
And last night in Pennsylvania, Trump again argued the only way he could lose the state is if there's cheating.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The only way we could lose, in my opinion -- I really mean this -- Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. The only way they can beat it in my opinion, and I mean this 100 percent is if in certain sections of the state, they cheat, OK? So, I hope you people can sort of not just vote on the 8th, go around and look and watch other polling places. And make sure that it's 100 percent fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRATES: Now, Trump provided no evidence that there's cheating going on in Pennsylvania. In fact, the accusation comes as Trump is badly lagging Clinton in the polls there. A recent Quinnipiac poll of likely Pennsylvania voters shows Clinton beating Trump by 10 points, 52 percent to 42 percent. And if he does lose the state in November, he'll be part of a trend. The last time the state voted for a Republican, 1988.
Now, Trump's habit of suggesting the system's rigged without providing any evidence that it has led some commentators to worry he's delegitimizing the entire democratic process. In fact when our own Erin Burnett asked Trump supporter Ben Carson last night if this tactic was hurting democracy, Carson just dodged the question -- Christi, Victor.
PAUL: All righty. Chris Frates, good to see you. Thank you.
BLACKWELL: All right. Let's discuss now. Joining me here in Atlanta, Amy Kremer, co-chair of Women Vote Trump, and in Washington, CNN political commentator, Maria Cardona, a Clinton supporter.
Amy, I want to start with here. After the week, I need to ask about this comment we heard from Donald Trump, is he being sarcastic? Is he exaggerating? Is this is hyperbole before we get to the substance?
AMY KREMER, WOMEN VOTE TRUMP: On the --
BLACKWELL: The voting, cheating, yes.
KREMER: I mean, look, I think we need to focus on winning. I mean, that's what we need to focus on, getting out to vote and everybody being active until that last ballot is cast. I mean, voter fraud is a serious issue.
KREMER: There have been concerns before but I think we need to focus on getting out the vote.
BLACKWELL: Donald Trump says and this is the quote, "The only way we can lose in my opinion, I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on." He goes on then to say, "The only way they can beat it in my opinion, and I mean this 100 percent", is in certain sections of the state, they cheated."
I'm going to ask you again, is he being genuine here or is this sarcasm?
KREMER: I'm not in Donald Trump's mind.
BLACKWELL: But isn't that the problem that his supporters don't know when he's being serious or when he's joking?
KREMER: Well, I mean, I think that we need to work on getting out the vote. I mean, seriously. I would say that to -- I mean, to anybody. I don't care if he's 10 points ahead, 20 points ahead, or 10 points down or 20 points down, you work until that last ballot is cast.
[07:05:06] BLACKWELL: OK. So, let's get to the substance now. Donald Trump says that the only way he can lose Pennsylvania is if the Republican -- or if the Clinton or Democrats cheat. I look at this NBC News/"Wall Street Journal/Marist poll, and Donald Trump is viewed more unfavorably than favorably by voters in every region of the state regardless of household income, regardless of education, regardless of race, regardless of age, regardless of gender and military service.
So, how does he believe in being under water in all 21 of those categories that the only way he's going to lose is that people cheated?
KREMER: Well, I think a lot of who they're polling is probable voters, people that have regular voted before. I think he's going to turn out a lot of new voters that have never been involved in the process before. I mean, we saw that in the primaries.
So, look, I mean, Victor, obviously, polls do matter. But at the end of the day, it goes back to what I said, it's about getting out the vote. I mean, I personally believe, that, yes, polls are important, but they're a snapshot in time.
I mean, what you're seeing in polls today may not be the same thing that you're seeing next week or even two months from now. So what matters is that you get out the vote. I think people are going to be voting on issues that affect them, that's national security and the economy, jobs and the economy.
BLACKWELL: Fair point. But is it healthy for a candidate for president to say that the system here, locally, and again there is no federal nationwide system that's running these. These are local municipal, statewide county elections in these communities that they're all rigged. Is that healthy --
KREMER: Well, what I will say is that, you know what, that you can go and volunteer to be a poll watcher. You can work at the polls.
BLACKWELL: But that's not what he's saying.
KREMER: If you're concerned about that, that's what you need to go do. And we have people that are doing that all across the country.
BLACKWELL: That's not what he's saying. What he's saying is, if I lose, the fix is in.
KREMER: I'm not in Donald Trump's head.
BLACKWELL: Do you support that --
KREMER: Do I support --
BLACKWELL: Do you support the concept if Donald Trump doesn't win, they cheated, Democrats cheated?
KREMER: We need to look at voter fraud. I want everybody to focus on getting out the vote and working for the candidate that you believe in, in both sides.
BLACKWELL: But let me ask you, getting out the vote, right, if you believe the system is rigged, from your perspective, what then is the value of getting out the vote if the candidate says, well, they're just going to do whatever they choose?
KREMER: Look, I mean, you have to go and work for your candidate and encourage people to get out and vote and vote on the issues that matter. And at some point, if allegations of voter fraud come up, which -- I mean, we won't know until it happens and you deal with it.
But to say there's no voter fraud I think is not correct because there has been voter fraud before and it's been a serious issue before.
BLACKWELL: There's been a very small number and isolated cases, you make a point there have been cases. It's not widespread in the way that Donald Trump saying if he loses the state of Pennsylvania where more than 5.5 million votes were cast in 2012, then a Democrat stole it.
KREMER: Look, I don't think anybody can say that until after the election. I mean, let's focus --
BLACKWELL: Donald Trump just said it 87 days before the election.
KREMER: Well, let's focus on getting out the vote. Turning out our people, getting them to block walk, make phone calls, all the things that we need to do in this election so that we can win. And then we don't have anything to worry about.
BLACKWELL: All right. We had a technical issue that we had to solve with Maria Cardona. But I understand we have Maria with us now. Maria, what Donald Trump in one way and I'm going to get your opinion
here, is he playing on some of the unfavorable, untrustworthy numbers that haunt Hillary Clinton in saying that "if I lose Pennsylvania, then they stole it"? Or is this something else?
MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I think he is certainly trying to do that. But I think more than anything else, and what is so dangerous about this kind of irresponsible rhetoric is that he's already laying the predicate for a loss. I think that he's already seeing these poll numbers. And so, what he's doing is, when Hillary Clinton wins, his supporters are not going to be able to accept that outcome in any way, shape or form, because of this kind of language that he's using.
He will not only be trying to delegitimize the process, delegitimize the new president of the United States, but he's giving his supporters an excuse to do anything and everything that they might think is appropriate to either make sure they're voicing discontent, and basically saying the whole system is rigged.
It's a completely irresponsible strategy here because I believe that he knows he is on a pathway to lose. And he's trying to make sure that he does everything he can so that his supporters can't accept whatever outcome that is, which at this point is probably that Hillary Clinton is going to win.
[07:10:04] BLACKWELL: All right. We've got to take a quick break. But we're bringing both of you back.
After the break, we're going to delve into another hot topic on the campaign trail. We're going to talk about taxes, and we're going to continue this conversation about Donald Trump's claim that if he loses Pennsylvania, it's because it was rigged. We'll be right back.
BLACKWELL: Welcome back. Thirteen minutes after the hour now.
And after a week when Hillary Clinton skewered Donald Trump for his economic policies, the former secretary also jabbed Trump on something a little closer to home, taxes. Clinton released her 2015 returns on Friday, her running mate Tim Kaine released ten years of his returns on the same day.
And Kaine tweeted this, "Just released my tax returns, Donald Trump. Where are yours?"
With me again, Amy Kremer, co-chair of Women Vote Trump, and CNN political commentator, Maria Cardona, a Clinton supporter joining us.
Quickly to you, Amy, Donald Trump, do you believe he should release his tax returns?
KREMER: I believe that -- he's not required, he's a private citizen. There's no law that requires him to release his tax returns.
BLACKWELL: That is accurate, yes.
KREMER: So, it's up to him. It's his personal choice.
And I will say that while there is no law that requires him to release his tax returns, there is a law that requires Hillary Clinton to turn over her e-mails and she broke that law.
BLACKWELL: Let me go back to that -- there's a bit of a scoff from Maria Cardona, we'll get to that.
But you -- I asked -- the question I asked you was, do you think he should release them?
KREMER: I don't have a problem with him releasing them, because I'm not concerned about what's in his tax returns. I'm concerned about what is he going to do for this country to get us back on track, to make sure that we're safe and secure and that our economy gets back to working and people have jobs. His tax returns are going to do nothing to give me that information.
BLACKWELL: Maria, what about that argument, that people don't vote on tax returns specifically?
[07:15:00] That this is, yes, context, but these are -- if you rank what voters care about, it's not falling in the top ten. There's economy, there's national security, and so forth, you know the issues.
CARDONA: Sure, no, absolutely.
But there's also another reality which is that 69 percent of American voters do want to see his tax returns. They are concerned about what might or might not be in there.
There's a reason why this has been something that for over 40 years, presidential candidates from both parties, whether they're under audit or not, have released their tax returns. It's an issue of openness and transparency. The American people have a right to know, for example, what is your tax rate? Have you paid any taxes?
What are your charitable contributions when you underscore how much you have given the charity? Is that true? Is it not true? Are you lying about that? What are your foreign business practices?
And so, I can understand why Donald Trump doesn't want to release his tax returns. The tax returns we have seen from him in the late '70s, Victor, he paid zero taxes. So, I don't think -- and I'm not saying that that's illegal. But what I am saying is that when you have a candidate running for president of the United States who is a multibillionaire, and the American people see that he has paid zero taxes, I don't think that's something that they're going to think is a great thing to have in a candidate who is seeking to run a government that he himself refuses to fund.
KREMER: This is a thing, though. It's that we're talking about -- he's not required to do it. Why are we not talking about these e- mails and the State Department and the pay-to-play that was going on there? That's really what the American people care about and concerns them.
BLACKWELL: We have talked about the e-mails and the server, Maria --
CARDONA: Yes, we have.
KREMER: With transparency, let's see the e-mails, because what we're learning about --
CARDONA: You have seen the e-mails, Amy.
KREMER: No, we haven't.
CARDONA: Yes, you have.
KREMER: No, we haven't.
BLACKWELL: We have had the e-mail conversation. Speaking of somebody in that position in the show, we'll continue to have that e-mail conversation.
But, Maria, something got lost. A poll jumped out at me from Bloomberg this week. I want to put it up on the screen. They asked participants about two statements being made, without telling them who made the statements, which described their feelings about the election.
First, the U.S. is in a dark and dangerous place with threats from overseas and within our borders. And the second, the U.S. is in a strong position for progress on the economy and national security, respectively from Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. But again, the voters participating in this didn't know that.
Fifty-six percent of the people picked Trump's depiction, 40 percent picked Clinton's depiction.
Is the Clinton campaign fully appreciating the unease across the country, are they painting too rosy of a picture?
CARDONA: Well, I think that they are certainly painting a picture that America is great, that we can do a lot better. But that inherently, we are an optimistic country that has hope for the future regardless of where we have been in the past.
And I think that what Clinton is saying, and what she says every day on the trail is that even though we have made incredible progress in the last eight years because President Obama was handed a huge hole, thanks to Republican economic policies, we still need to do more. There's no question that we need to do more. And she acknowledges that people are in pain, and that they are anxious.
And she focuses on making sure that she is working to make an economy that works for everyone, versus Donald Trump that's going to continue Republican policies of only helping rich people like himself.
BLACKWELL: All right. We've got to wrap it up there.
KREMER: These are not Republican policies that have been the past eight years. We don't need four more of the same.
BLACKWELL: Wrapping it up, Amy Kremer --
CARDONA: And he's done great in the last eight years given where we were eight years ago.
BLACKWELL: Thank you.
CARDONA: Thank you, Victor.
PAUL: All righty.
An incredible night in Rio for Team USA. Coy Wire is there.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESONDENT: Christi and Victor, it's a beautiful day here in Rio. We have world records being shattered. Wait until you hear what American Hope Solo had to say about their opponent after a loss. She was talking some trash.
We have you covered in all things Olympics, coming up.
[07:22:46] PAUL: Twenty-two minutes past the hour.
And tonight, Michael Phelps brings his Olympic career to a close in Rio. We're already seeing a new generation take over for the former as Katie Ledecky dominates in the pool. I mean, this was a win to take the record books.
Coy Wire watching all the action, joining us live now from Copacabana Beach.
WIRE: Hi, Christi.
I talked to Katie before coming down here she's just a once in a lifetime athlete because she has the physical challenge and also this focus that is outmatched by no one. She's 19 years old. She doesn't even have her driver's license yet. She's that focused, Christi.
But Katie Ledecky taking her fourth gold medal of the games here in Rio, this time in the 800-meter freestyle, and she finished over 11 seconds ahead of the silver medalist swimmer, shattering her own record. She could have hopped out of the pool, put on her parka and starting sipping a recovery smoothie before the other swimmers finished. Katie did get emotional after her final win here in Rio. There were
tears. She now has six Olympic medals and has smashed 13 world records in her young career.
Others news in the pool. Michael Phelps in the final individual race of his illustrious Olympic career, losing, finishing in a three-way tie for silver behind Joseph Schooling who were Singapore, their first ever gold medal. Phelps individual career ends on a silver note.
But guys, he has the men's 4 4x100-meter medley. And a good shot a gold there. After the race yesterday, Phelps said, quote, "I have two laps left in my career," unquote.
Now, a huge upset in Rio. The U.S. women's soccer team going down, knocked out of the tournament by Sweden in penalty kicks. American goaltender Hope Solo who allowed Sweden's final score talked trash afterwards. She told reporters, quote, "We lost to a bunch of cowards. Better team did not win", unquote. Not a good look for Solo or our country after that loss. The U.S. women soccer team had won three consecutive golds in Olympic competition.
And finally, the world's fastest man is set to defend his gold medals in records here in Rio. Jamaica's Usain Bolt to run in the qualifiers of the 100-meter dash today.
[07:25:02] Bolt and American Justin Gatlin are expected to finish one/two in the final tomorrow night.
And, Christi, that will be one heck of an event. Justin Gatlin told me a few days ago that he wants to earn back that world's fastest man title he once owned in '04. Usain Bolt said, Gatlin will feel his wrath.
PAUL: All right. So, notice they said they'll finish one and two, but he didn't say in which order that will be. We'll have to wait and find out.
Coy Wire, we appreciate it. Thank you.
BLACKWELL: A flood emergency hits southeast Louisiana. The rivers are still rising and rescuers are working around the clock trying to save people from the raging waters. We've got a live report from one of the hardest hit areas, just ahead.
PAUL: Also former Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Chris Cuomo in a bit of a face-off regarding Donald Trump's accusation of media bias. You're going to hear their fiery exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't control who's investigating. My job is to cover -
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: We're covering for the third day --
(END VIDEO CLIP) PAUL: And let's talk about your money, shall we? Mortgage rates inched up this week. Here's your look.
PAUL: Half past the hour right now and good to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul.
BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell, pleasure to be with you.
Eighty-seven days now until the election.
And Donald Trump is now telling supporters in Pennsylvania, if he loses the state in November, voter fraud is to blame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The only way we can lose, in my opinion, I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[07:30:00] PAUL: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton released her 2015 tax returns yesterday, a move meant to pressure Trump into releasing his. Her return showed an annual income of $10.6 million with effective tax rate of 31 percent.
Now, Donald Trump has been talking a lot, too, about journalists and the media, as of late. In fact, earlier this week, CNN's Chris Cuomo sat down with Trump support and former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani. It became this heated debate regarding Trump's media coverage. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He says the media is doing this to me. The media is rigged. Do you think my coverage is rigged?
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: No, I don't think yours is, but I think a lot of coverage is rigged.
CUOMO: How is it rigged? This comes out of his mouth, and you have to apologize for it.
GIULIANI: I have not apologized.
CUOMO: You come here and explain it and say, well, it could have meant this.
GIULIANI: No, I didn't say it could have meant that. I'm telling you he didn't say words of violence.
CUOMO: He didn't say go out and vote, did he?
GIULIANI: No. OK, but you say things in a lot of different ways in politics. CUOMO: You had trouble with the media when you were mayor, sometimes
you kept people out of press conferences. You never said the things he does. You've never said things in front of a crowd that had them start chanting "lock them up" about the media.
GIULIANI: For which --
CUOMO: Calling reporters liars when he knows it is not true.
GIULIANI: Look, the coverage is not fair. If you can't see that, I can't help you.
CUOMO: No politician likes the media. No politician says the media is fair to them.
GIULIANI: Nobody, nobody brought up Hillary's comments about Bobby Kennedy.
CUOMO: What are you talking about? It is all over the place.
GIULIANI: No it isn't all over the place. Not three days the front page of the newspaper.
"New York Times" failed to point out in any kind of highlighted way the fact that a terrorist and the father of a terrorist was sitting behind Hillary Clinton, and they failed to ask the question, what attracted him to her? What attracted that Taliban --
CUOMO: What attracted Mark Foley to Donald Trump?
GIULIANI: I don't know. Lots of questions were asked about that.
CUOMO: Not as many as were asked about the Orlando father.
GIULIANI: He was asked about David Duke, who he has never met.
CUOMO: You don't think that's a legitimate question?
GIULIANI: Hillary hasn't been asked about the father yet.
CUOMO: That's not true. They've been all over the campaign asking.
GIULIANI: Her answer was thank you. Her answer was thank you.
CUOMO: No, just said, Rudy, you just said she hasn't been asked. The answer is that's wrong. She has been asked.
You know what I'm saying? I understand why you support him. I get it. But you apologize and defend for him --
GIULIANI: Chris, I am --
CUOMO: And I think that's putting you in an awkward position.
GIULIANI: Not for me.
CUOMO: You're right. You don't apologize. It might be the more honorable thing to do.
GIULIANI: It wouldn't be the more honorable thing to do, I mean, to lie. What he meant was --
CUOMO: If you're saying it was on the media, that's not lying but it's also not accurate, right?
GIULIANI: Yes, the media --
CUOMO: But it is wrong.
GIULIANI: The media took words that were not violent words, and the media interpreted them as violent words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: All right.
Let's bring in National Public Radio TV critic Ed Deggans, along with CNN political commentator and political anchor for New York 1 News, excuse me, Errol Louis.
It did get quite heated as you could see there.
Eric, I want to go to you first because you are indeed the critic here. Do you see bias in the way Trump is covered versus the way Hillary Clinton is covered?
ERIC DEGGANS, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO TV CRITIC: I have to say I don't see the kind of bias that Rudolph Giuliani and Trump supporters have been talking about. You know, Trump's appeal and success has been in being so visible in the media, in being somewhat who says things that generate a lot of coverage: and it worked very well for him in the primaries. Now, that he's in the general election, some of the same things that he's saying, they're generating tough coverage from news media outlets, and they seem to be complaining about it. And that's the thing that I don't quite understand.
He knows that his appeal comes from dominating the news cycle. And when you dominate the news cycle, you do tend to generate a lot of tough coverage, especially when the race narrows down to two people which is what we're seeing right now.
PAUL: Right. So, Errol, is it -- do you believe, is there any evidence it's strategic? I mean, he says, Trump says he doesn't like the coverage, but he keeps creating headlines himself.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, of course, it's strategic. Donald Trump favorite method of putting out a fire is to start a new fire. And he pretty much has acknowledged that in a very interesting exchange he had with Hugh Hewitt just the other night where the question came up about, is he actually accusing the sitting president of the United States of having founded a terrorist organization. He only confirmed that that's exactly what he was saying and he avoided any attempt to sort of moderate or turned it into a metaphor. But he also said, they're going to be talking about the way I put it
as opposed to the way you put it, is what he said to Hugh Hewitt. This is what he does. I've watched this for an entire generation, Christi. I mean, this is how he came to national prominence through the tabloids, including one I used to work for, "The New York Daily News".
[07:35:01] And so, he would as we know, get used to call up newspapers under a false name and plant stories. Some of which made him look pretty awful actually, but he's always wanted lots and lots of attention.
And when it doesn't go his way, he always uses his own vocabulary. He uses the word "unfair." You ask him a tough question, it's not a tough question, it's an unfair question. You catch him in an absolutely lie, as he's being caught at over and over again, he says, you're being unfair to me.
And so, I don't know if any of this should be taken very seriously. This is somebody who knows exactly what he's doing. And when you catch him and you don't play along with him, when he does things like obviously mock a reporter and then claim that we didn't see what we just saw, and you point out, hey, look, you just mocked a reporter and he said, oh, you're being unfair to me.
OK. Fine. We understand how to translate it. I think most viewers understand exactly what's going on here.
PAUL: OK. But the strategy could be on both ends of the spectrum here. Eric, because Hillary Clinton just released a new interview on a podcast, made by her campaign we understand, the interviewer is on her payroll, a Clinton supporter. So, she's not speaking to the media. She's talking to somebody who supports her.
Does that aid some of the criticism that's coming to her regarding her accessibility to the media?
DEGGANS: Well, I think Hillary Clinton has certainly taken criticism for not holding press conferences, for not making herself available to the media. When she did speak to the National Association of Black Journalists, she was asked very directly about that, and the point was made that journalists who cover her and travel with her would like to have more access to her. I think both candidates, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, have both complained about their press coverage.
I would say that's what's happening with Donald Trump is that he speaks during his speeches in a way that sometimes seems like he's trying to speak in code. He will say something like this Second Amendment reference. And reporters are left to try to figure out what exactly he means.
And in one instance, he will back up what he's saying and say he meant "X." And in other instances, he will come back and say, no, I was joking a couple days later. So, in many instances when they try to speak code to followers, it's easy to understand what they're doing. In Trump's case, he seems to want to put these messages out there and
then when the media says you seem to be saying X, Y and Z, he will either try to deny it or he'll double down and then he'll deny it. You know, it's very tough I think for journalists to figure out exactly what he's saying and what he means in some of these statements. And then he criticizes the coverage when he seems to be trying to thread a needle between talking in code or talking more directly.
PAUL: And, Errol, real quickly, we're six weeks out fro the first presidential debate, how problematic, do you think that's going to be, for Donald Trump? The fact that Chris Cuomo was getting to the point there, you have to have him say one thing and then his surrogates come on and explain what he meant. That's not going to be okay in the Oval Office?
LOUIS: That's exactly -- well, not only that, it's not going to be okay in the campaign trail. That's why I think you see hip slipping in the polls. And that's why his obvious frustration with the media is bubbling over. It is not our job to go behind and clean up all kind of statements that are made all over the place. Quite frankly, his surrogates have a hard time doing it in part because the campaign organization has not provided him with talking points in a timely way.
I can't tell you how many time Christi, in the last year, I've run into his folks in green rooms. And they have no idea what they're supposed to say. I mean, it's almost unfair to them to expect them to try and clean up something and then they do it --
PAUL: You mean they don't know what to say based on what he just said?
LOUIS: Well, exactly right. In other words, he'll say something and then he'll sort of dial it back, very much as Eric just said. But they don't -- they're not given any clue or any warning that something that he has claimed on Monday is going to be changed on Tuesday. It happens over and over again.
PAUL: All righty. Eric Deggans and Errol Louis, we appreciate both of you being here. Thank you.
LOUIS: Thank you.
BLACKWELL: Still to come, the ten-part Netflix documentary have the whole country talking about this case. Now, one of the men featured in "Making a Murderer" could soon be free.
Plus, record rainfall, deadly flash floods pummel the parishes of southern Louisiana.
Boris Sanchez is live there with the latest.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Victor. As you can see behind me, the flooding has essentially cut off many neighborhoods. We'll tell you when experts tell us the rain will finally cool down. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:43:07] BLACKWELL: Forty-three minutes after the hour.
And breaking news in Louisiana: a flood emergency for several communities. Dangerous rushing waters have claimed at least three lives. One man who was swept away is still missing.
Now, the pounding rain is not letting up. To give you an idea of just how wet it is, Baton Rouge got 9 1/2 inches of rainfall in just 24 hours. That's nearly four inches more than they average for the entire month of August.
Now, the water rose so quickly, already at least two dozen people have been rescued from their homes, cars, some people pulled from trees.
CNN's Boris Sanchez is following the latest for us this morning.
And, Boris, I'm looking at this waterlogged community around you. I would imagine that a lot of people, there's lots of rescues still going on around the clock?
Can Boris hear me?
All right. We've got difficulty with Boris' shot. We'll get back to him in just a moment. We'll get you to the latest in that situation in Louisiana.
Christi, I'm going to send it back to you.
PAUL: All righty. Thank you so very much.
Let's talk about a conviction that's overturned in a murder case that captivated the country. Remember the popular Netflix documentary and the impact it had. Well, wait until you hear what has happened now.
BLACKWELL: All right. Let's get back to the breaking news. That flood emergency in parts of Louisiana. Three people dead, one man washed away by the waters.
Boris Sanchez there in parts of southeast Louisiana.
Give us an update on what's happening there.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Victor, there are actually rescues still ongoing right now. We just learned not far from east Baton Rouge. The rain is still coming down. It actually stopped just in the past hour or so. But the water is still on the ground.
You could see behind me in this neighborhood, there's a river not far from here that overflowed. And it's really the result of this persistent system that's been along this region from Florida's panhandle, and to Alabama, Mississippi and the brunt of it here in Louisiana. You see a home over there that's been flooded. There are businesses here as well that have been flooded.
I want to show you the high water mark. This water has receded significantly like I said, but you see on that wall, where the water was, almost to the door handle of that business. And after so many days of rain, persistent rain, the ground was saturated and a lot of rivers, and canals and tributaries just overflowed into these neighborhoods.
As you said, Victor, three people -- at least three people were killed. One person is still missing. More than 12,000 people are without power right now. And many, many people have been forced out of their homes.
We talked to a man yesterday who told us that he was camping out at a gas station because he didn't know where else to go. There was a shelter nearby. And many people were gathered there. But, unfortunately, the church became inundated and the pews were floating around.
So, it's still a precarious situation. There are rescues ongoing right now. We were on a highway yesterday at about this time in the morning and officials told us they had conducted five rescues in just one hour.
So, a lot of people are trying to get out of their homes, but they're finding themselves trapped on roadways that are flooded out, much like the one behind me. The hope here is that the water will continue to recede and that by tomorrow, the rain will finally slow down, but it will be a while before we get there.
[07:50:00] So, the best idea for folks in this area is just to stay inside their homes. Officials have been putting out this morning for several days, they have been up expecting this rain. Hopefully, we can get through this, get to tomorrow and then the real recovery will begin, Victor.
BLACKWELL: Boris Sanchez for us there, thanks so much.
Let's go back to those live pictures for just a second that we saw from North Baton Rouge, the flashing lights there, as Boris said, continuing rescues happening this morning and our meteorologist Derek Van Dam told us just moments ago that the rain will continue for the next 36 hours or more.
We'll continue to watch this. A quick break, we'll be back.
PAUL: So, are you one of the 20 million people who watched that hugely popular Netflix documentary "Making a Murderer" because a federal judge in Wisconsin has overturned Brendan Dassey's conviction now. He was sent to prison, remember, along with his uncle, for the 2005 murder of photographer Teresa Halbach. Now, Dassey was 16 years at the time. He has learning disabilities.
The judge ruled investigators violated his constitutional rights and gave prosecutors 90 days now to decide if they are going to retry Dassey. If they do not, he'll be released.
CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson, is with us now.
So, Joey, the judge slammed investigators, of course, one of Dassey's former attorneys. How does he believe that Dassey was wronged?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what happens, Christie, is this -- good morning -- is that the case against Dassey largely relied upon his confession. Remember how powerful confessions are because essentially you're saying, yes, I was there as he did, I did it, I aided, I abetted, I participated.
[07:55:03] A confession is compelling, a confession is everything.
However, in order for that confession to be admissible, it has to be voluntary, it has to be knowing, and it can't be coerced in any way. You can't be intimidated into giving it. You can't otherwise be promised things into giving a confession. It has to be fully voluntary.
The court concluded that it was not and they did that, Christi, based that on a number of factors including the fact he's a juvenile. That his mental I.Q. and other mental abilities are somewhat deficient and the fact that the investigators took advantage of him.
And in light of that, it was the court's conclusion that the confession was not voluntary to the extent that the investigators really exploited him. The courts said, you can't do it. And then the final piece of the analysis, of course, is while maybe it's harmless error. So what he confessed, did it make a difference? It made all the difference, because his case based upon the confession, really, was -- you know, when he was testifying in court, the prosecutors really made neat of him, if I can say that, by whatever he said, OK, when he testified.
Well, you didn't say that before during the interrogation, didn't you? So he was convicted based upon that. The court says, you get a new trial.
PAUL: OK. So, listen to how one of the defense attorneys feature in the documentary reacted to the news.
Take a look here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The court found, the finally a court of justice has found that the investigators' techniques that were used on Brendan Dassey were improper, they were false promises of leniency, that they manipulated him and took advantage of his mental limitations to psychologically at least coerce him into saying what they believe the truth to be, and only what they believed the truth to be.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PAUL: All right. So, Joey, based on that, any repercussions for those investigators for those investigators at this point? We are so late in the game now.
JACKSON: Yes, there's really not. In mean -- and in fact, the court goes to say in its decision, you know, 90-some odd day decision, that we're really not ascribing malicious intentions to the investigators at all with regard to what they did here. We're just saying what they did is constitutionally impermissible. So I wouldn't look to see anything happen to them.
The real question is, will they retry him without a confession now, it's a whole new ball game because now he's not implicating himself.
JACKSON: The state needs to find independent evidence to show he's guilty.
PAUL: Do you think they will retry?
JACKSON: You know, it really depends on what outside evidence they have. In the first trial against him where he was convicted of everything and sentenced to life, you know, the confession was that the beginning of the case, the middle of the case, the end of the case. It meant all.
So, now, what they have to do is go back, look at what evidence they have that might support a conviction without him implicating himself. And what they have really in the files will largely depend upon whether they go at him again or just let it go.
PAUL: You know, Joey, I think a lot of people look at this and wonder, did the Netflix documentary series have anything to do with what we're seeing unravel here? What is your assessment in that regard?
JACKSON: You know, Christie, I have to say that it really did. I think that the country was compelled with that series about the process itself, with the efficiencies of the process, with whether the police were taking advantage, you know, of this youth with his mental instability or at least his mental deficiencies.
And I think that really those things that which are done in the dark tend to come out in the light. Now, I say that figuratively, of course, because the confession was during day, from 11:00 to 4:00, and even though it was from 11:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. back on March 1, 2006, ten years ago, the fact is that it was only three hours in duration.
But, you know, when you do things and you do things behind closed doors and you take advantage of someone and their parents are not there and you promise them, and you're going to go home, and it's going to be OK. Just tell us what you need to tell us and just be honest. Of course, he veers off from what they deem to be honest, they say, that is really not what happened, did it?
You know, tell us what we need to know. I think essentially when the world sees that, it really shines a bright light on it. I think it forces the courts to real examine it because at the end of the day, Christi, we need to trust our justice process.
And so, I would be one to say, no, this was independent of that, the facts are what they are, this has nothing to do with it. I'm one that firmly believes that it really did.
PAUL: Joey, you have 20 seconds. Stephen Avery also convicted in Halbach's murder. What do you think is in store for him, does it change anything?
JACKSON: Not as it relates to him. Although to the extent that the confession really implicates him, I see his attorneys says, well, wait a second. That evidence was compelling and as a result of that, we have to look at his case. If that's no longer on the table from the evidentiary point of view, when it cannot come in in his trial, then what else do you have to convict my client?