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Trump Campaign in Turmoil, Blames Media; Clinton Surging in Swing States; Trump Stays on Message in Speech on Terrorism, Immigration; Clinton and Biden Campaign in Pennsylvania; Clinton's E- Email Headaches. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 15, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Trump campaign turmoil with less than three months to go until Election Day.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Hillary Clinton surging in swing states. As Donald Trump blames the media. Stokes fear of a rigged election and faces calls to step down from some in his own party.
Meanwhile, the mogul turned reality star turned presidential candidate stays -- says this, excuse me, about the plan to defeat ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The time is overdue to develop a new screening test for the threats we face today. I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And Hillary Clinton says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Sometimes he says he won't tell anyone what he'll do because he wants to keep his plan, quote, "secret."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's get right to CNN's Sara Murray in Youngstown, Ohio, where Donald Trump laid out his ISIS plan today. And here with me in New York is CNN's justice correspondent, Pamela Brown. Good to have both of you on this evening.
Sara, you first. Donald Trump is trying to get his campaign back on track today he gave what was build as a major foreign policy speech outlining his plan to fight terror. What were the highlights?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Don, he did unveil a pretty big shift in terms of how the U.S. approaches foreign policy saying it's time to put an end to nation building and saying we need to focus all of our efforts essentially on fighting ISIS and we need to become allies with whoever wants to fight ISIS alongside the United States.
If ISIS is their enemy, they should be an American ally in this battle against ISIS. But one of the thing that's getting a lot of attention is what he brought up in terms of a new immigration plan.
He suggested an ideological test for folks who wants to come to the United States and even he said it was an extreme test. Take a listen to how he described it earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We should only admit into this country those who share our values and respect our people. In the Cold War, we had an ideological screening test. The time is overdue to develop a new screening test. I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting.
Our country has enough problems. We don't need more and these are problems like we've never had before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now when he's talking about extreme vetting, he explained that the goal here is to weed out immigrants who might have radical beliefs whether those are anti-Semitic, anti-gay, anti-Christian. But he didn't give a lot of specifics on how he would implement such a policy, Don.
LEMON: Anything in the speech we hadn't heard before, Sara?
MURRAY: I think this was really the biggest new piece of information from Donald Trump. We, of course, heard him talk about the Muslim ban in the past. That's not something he mentioned tonight.
And we heard him mention wanting to block people coming from countries where he sees terrorism being bred and he reiterated that call. But I think this notion that you're going to impose an ideological test on immigrants who want to come to the United States is what's really been the point of discussion for most of today, Don.
LEMON: All right. To our Pamela Brown. Pamela, Hillary Clinton was on the stump with Vice President Joe Biden today. Friendly territory. Scranton, Pennsylvania. Give us some highlights.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is first time Hillary Clinton went on the campaign trail with Vice President Joe Biden and it was in Scranton, Pennsylvania, where both have family roots. Joe Biden is from there. Hillary Clinton's father is from there.
And Joe Biden really came out of the gate today basically talking about why he thought Hillary Clinton was fit to be president and why Trump was unfit and he went further than that basically saying that Donald Trump would be a danger to national security because he cannot be trusted.
He talked about how there was someone in the back who had nuclear codes and he basically said that, look, Donald Trump is someone who can't be trusted with those nuclear codes. He's too erratic. He cannot be trusted. His shame has no limits.
And he even said at one point, Don, that he's someone who could be friends with Stalin, of course, the former leader of the Soviet Union which some may say, hey, he may have crossed the line there. But clearly trying to evoke fear that Donald Trump is not fit for president.
LEMON: It was a blistering attack, Pamela.
LEMON: Let's listen to some of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I have worked -- I've worked with eight presidents of the United States. I have served with hundreds of senators. Only 13 senators in history, I'm embarrassed to say, have served as long as I have.
Dozens of Secretaries of State and Secretaries of Defense of both parties. And I can say without hesitation my word as a Biden, no major party nominee in the history of the United States of America has -- now don't cheer. Quite. Just listen.
[22:04:59] Has known less or been less prepared to deal with our national security than Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, this is a mantra that he's not fit to be president. He's making that case for saying Donald Trump is not fit to be president. But also, he's appealing to voters that tell it like it is, Joe Biden voters who just like Joe.
BROWN: That's right. I mean, and this particularly these white working class voters, blue collar democrats in Scranton, Pennsylvania. This is a key voting bloc. This is a voting bloc that Hillary Clinton has had trouble with this campaign.
Donald Trump has been actively courting them because he needs them in large numbers if he's going to win come November. So, you heard Joe Biden make the case why he thought Donald Trump is a danger to national security and also kind of seize on his popularity among these voters.
He's really garnered their support through his years in public office. And so he's trying to get their support on Hillary Clinton's side.
LEMON: All right. Pamela and Sara. Stay with me. Because I want to bring in CNN's John King. Mr. John King, hello to you. Donald Trump has been slipping in the polls ever since the convention. But a particular importance is those swing states. What's the latest on that?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Without a doubt. Particularly important the swing states. Now what he's hoping is this ISIS speech today can get him back on track because Hillary Clinton has been gaining and gaining consistently.
Let's just look here. These are six of your traditional battleground states in a close presidential election, camp out in these six, you tend to figure out who's going to win.
At the moment, Hillary Clinton leads in all of them. By average, plus three in Florida, by average plus two in Ohio, by average plus four in North Carolina, plus eight in New Hampshire. Double digits in Virginia, double digits in Colorado.
Look at that. Donald Trump has to turn some blue states red, Don, from the 2012 may. The Obama/Romney map to change it. And this is a generous presentation for Mr. Trump, in the sense that more recent polls in these states have Hillary Clinton lead even bigger.
This averages out the five or six most recent polls, so Trump was closer back in the day. At the moment, Don, when you look at these numbers and you look at this map, there's not one blue state here from the Obama/Romney map that I can circle and say Donald Trump's leading it. Advantage Clinton big-time.
LEMON: All right. Well, let's talk more about that. Because he has made a point of saying that he can turn some traditional blue democratic states republican red. Is he even close to that anywhere, John?
KING: The answer is no again, which is why, again, 85 days to go, Donald Trump has defied logic and political gravity before. So, don't count him out. But in Michigan on average, Clinton leads by six. In Pennsylvania on average, Clinton leads by nine.
In Wisconsin, it's nine. In New York, it's 17. Donald Trump has said he can win most if not all of the states. Most people think he needs Pennsylvania, Don. Donald Trump says he's going to win New York. Nobody thinks that's viable.
But somehow when you look at this map, somehow he's got to turn some of these blue red and, again, there are some red states here. Clinton is leading at the moment in North Carolina. Romney won that. Clinton's comparative in Georgia. Clinton's comparative out in Arizona.
Some people think with this conservative challenger, she could be competitive out in Utah. There's nothing blue that I can circle tonight and say advantage Trump. There are some red ones where you could say Clinton is in play especially in North Carolina.
Again, long way to go. But Mr. Trump is in a bit of a demographic in a polling ditch. LEMON: All right, John. Let's get back to Sara now. Sara, he also
attacks Hillary Clinton is lacking mental and physical stamina to take on ISIS. We heard that throughout the campaign. What is he -- what is he trying to get at here?
MURRAY: Well, I think when he talks about these mental attacks about Hillary Clinton and ISIS, you know, he laid out what he felt like were President Obama and Hillary Clinton's foreign policy failures to date.
He's obviously talked a lot about Benghazi. Sort of feeling like she doesn't have the record on national security and trying to poke holes frankly in the fact that she does have much more foreign policy experience than Donald Trump does.
On the physical side it's a little more perplexing. Hillary Clinton is 68 years old. Donald Trump is 70 years old. But it does seem like just another jab he wanted to land against her tonight.
LEMON: All right. Pam, you know, still Hillary Clinton cannot get out from under the e-mail scandal. What's happening with the release of the notes from her interview with the FBI?
BROWN: Well, this continues to cast a shadow over her campaign. We're learning that the FBI will soon be releasing notes from her interview with the bureau, the three hour plus interview over to Congress and this was not done under oath. There is no transcript.
These are just notes that the FBI agents made. But it's unusual for the FBI to hand over notes like this to Congress particularly in a case where the interview was voluntary and there were no charges such as this case and also the political sensitivity here.
These are politically charged materials being handed over in the middle of the election year. But, James Comey, the director of the FBI, has repeatedly said he wants to be as transparent as possible with this case and handing these notes over is one way to achieve that.
But no doubt this will once again bring her e-mail controversy back into center stage.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Pamela. Thank you, Sara. John King, stick with me. When we come back, top conservatives want the GOP to cut Trump loose. But is it too late?
[22:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Donald Trump staying on message, in following a script today in a speech on terrorism, foreign policy and immigration. Can he turn his campaign around with less than three months until Election Day?
I want to bring in republican strategists Kevin Madden and John Brabender, and CNN's John King back with me.
Hello, gentlemen. Kevin, I'm going to go with you first. Let me ask you about Donald Trump's speech. Many republican say Hillary Clinton is vulnerable on foreign policy on that front. How do you think Donald Trump, did he make his case today against her leadership?
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, look, the problem for Donald Trump, or I should just say the challenge for Donald Trump is that he has to make the foreign policy case against the former Secretary of State. As troublesome as her record is, and a much more broad and sustained way.
To this point, this juncture in the campaign, he's only done it intermittently. When you have someone like Donald Trump whose resume is not fashioned around national security or foreign policy, he has very little experience or very little resume there, he's going up in essentially a contest of credentials.
Now Hillary Clinton has a lot of problems there particularly with republican voters. But swing voters there are much more likely to give her the benefit of the doubt because she has essentially experience in having worked in the administration.
So, for Donald Trump to really be effective there, he has to hammer about -- hammer away at some of Hillary Clinton's past problems or past bad decision making on national security and foreign policy relentlessly.
So, you need something like today, much more methodically throughout the rest of this campaign in order to chip away at that strength that she has.
LEMON: OK. Kevin Madden. At John Brabender now, what about the attacks on Hillary Clinton's health? Is that a winning strategy?
[22:15:05] JOHN BRABENDER, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Yes, I think he has to be very careful. First of all, I think he has to be more broad his attack should be on Washington and status quo, not just Hillary.
When he does go to Hillary, they got to be where they're not personal, they got to be where she's been there for 24 years, she had her chance, she was tested and she failed to test. We need now somebody who can move us in another direction.
We already know that. Most people don't think America is going the right direction. So, when he makes it personal, he loses. When he makes it about the bigger issue and he makes it anti-Washington, it's much, much more powerful and he's got to change to do that.
LEMON: Yes, the question is can he do it? Is that even in him to do that? John King, republicans are seemingly jumping ship. Many of them by the day. Some ready to cut Trump lose all together. And today, extraordinary -- there is this extraordinary editorial from the Wall Street Journal.
I'm going to read, it's something from the opinion page. It says "If they can't get Mr. Trump to change his act by Labor Day, the GOP will have no choice but to write off the nominee as hopeless and focus on salvaging the Senate and House and other down-ballot races." "As for Mr. Trump, he needs to stop blaming everyone else and decide if he wants to behave like someone who wants to be president or turn the nomination over to Mike Pence." I mean, they're encouraging republicans to cut Trump loose by Labor Day if he doesn't change his ways. Do you see that happening?
KING: I see it as a possibility. Let's be honest. Most of these republican or republican establishment groups including the Wall Street Journal editorial page didn't want Trump to begin with. So, they're not fans of Mr. Trump. He took over their party and what some consider a hostile takeover.
So, let's be clear that a lot of these people making the criticisms didn't want Trump didn't like Trump to begin with. But this is a dangerous one, Don. There are a lot of republicans saying if we get past Labor Day and he's still in the tank, if he's still down in all those swing states, pull all the money, redirect it to the House and Senate campaign.
But John and Kevin can tell you better than I can because they've been involved in close campaigns. If the guy at the top of the ticket tanks, even if you're perfect down below, even if you make every right decision, it's hard to win sometimes.
In a state like Pennsylvania, where John's worked extensively, they have a republican incumbent senator who's in trouble. And if Trump tanks in Pennsylvania, and then there's fights with republicans, we're going to spend our money here, you're going to spend our money there, we're going to yank this money away from TV or yank this money away from the ground game, those fights even if you think you're breaking from a nominee you think is toxic, you think you're helping your candidate, often, at least often as not, you're hurting your candidate.
LEMON: John Brabender, you want to talk about that?
BRABENDER: Well, John's absolutely right. Take a state also right now like North Carolina which nobody thought was probably even going to be in play. We see not only the presidential in play with Trump failing a little bit, we see the other candidates in that race doing it.
Understand, though, that Trump can turn this thing around but they have fundamental problems within the campaign. Fundamental problems with the message. And frankly, I think what some of these people are saying, I wish Trump was more like Mike Pence.
LEMON: Yes. I want to get Kevin. Kevin, I want you to weigh in on this. But I was reading your Twitter feed and for a second I was like, did I get ahold of Taylor Swift's Twitter feed?
Because you tweeted -- you tweeted last night about this editorial. You said, you guys, he will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever change, ever. Like, never getting back together, right? Like ever. So, I mean, you know, they...
(CROSSTALK) MADDEN: You ran out of characters.
LEMON: So, John says he may be able to get it together and stay on message and turn things around. But what do you mean by that tweet?
MADDEN: I think what you're dealing with right now is Donald Trump. And Donald Trump's not going to change. A lot of what people are talking about, maybe he'll be more disciplined, maybe they'll have more organization in the campaign. Maybe they'll focus more on policy.
Donald Trump doesn't care about any of that. What you need is essentially a different candidate. Like John Brabender said, you need Mike Pence. Somebody who cares about policy. Somebody who has strong record on accomplishment...
LEMON: Are you conceding the election then? Are you saying it's never going to happen?
MADDEN: I think there is a very, very slim chance that Donald Trump has right now. I mean, it is the window has been closing.
Remember, we look at the Washington -- I'm sorry, the Wall Street Journal referred to Labor Day. Labor Day, is a traditional starter pistol for the campaign. But it's not the actual start of the campaign.
The opinions of people, the impressions that have been made on voters that are persuadable right now have been taking place over the last three months and Donald Trump has had probably the last worst last three months of any general election candidate ever.
So, it is just very, very narrow window that he can turn this around.
LEMON: Hey, John King, can I ask you because I'm wondering if the attack on the Khans, the veiled threat against Hillary Clinton, you know, and the Second Amendment, was that the turning point, you think, for Donald Trump because he had seemed bulletproof especially before the Khans.
KING: I think the Khans was part of it. Look, we've asked this question from the very beginning of the campaign when he questioned John McCain's patriotism, he essentially said he wasn't a real war hero because he was captured.
He's done so many other things. And we've always said is this the last straw, is this the last straw? So, I think there's been a cumulative effect. I also think we're just in a different stage of the campaign.
[22:19:59] A lot of the early things that we all thought were disqualifying or horrifying or reprehensible or just way out of bounds happened during a republican primary contest.
And now people are picking a president, they're not picking a nominee for their party. So, I don't think there is any one thing. But I think you can make the case that if you talk to smart strategies like the two you have right here with us tonight, they will tell you that over time, the issue is this, you have a two-term democratic president.
The Republican Party, as John said should be running against, how's it going, let's change Washington, let's have a new direction. The last eight years haven't been that great, let's do something different. It should be a referendum on Obama and Clinton.
She has managed to turn it into a referendum on Donald Trump. But as long as she can make that the case, then his lack of government credentials, sometimes things he says that people would consider different or out of bounds, and in some cases wacky are more in play.
A challenger can get by with a lower bar if the issue is the incumbents. Right now the issue is the challenger.
LEMON: Well, that was a point that John...
MADDEN: Yes, John King...
LEMON: That's the point that John Brabender made. I want John Brabender to get in here. Because, John, you're seeming to think that he does have time to turn this around and those things aren't cumulative.
BRABENDER: Oh, there is. Look, two weeks ago, three weeks ago the race was pretty much even, so the fluidity of it without even any debates, but here's the thing that Donald Trump has to understand. Two things.
Number one, people haven't been waiting their whole life to vote for Donald Trump. The people that are supporting him have been waiting a long time to send a message to Washington. It's a big distinction. He has to understand that context.
LEMON: That's a good point.
BRABENDER: So, and then second of all, he has to understand the general election is different than a primary. I think he is seeing now when he does make these mistakes his poll numbers do go down. He didn't see that in the primary. I think that's why he might change.
LEMON: Go ahead - go ahead, Kevin.
MADDEN: Well, I was going to say to John King's point, too, at the same the Khan controversy was taking its toll on Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton was outspending -- Hillary Clinton campaign was outspending Donald Trump in some places 25-0 as far as advertising.
Places like North Carolina, the Clinton campaign is spending money on adds the Trump campaign is not on the air. So only one part of the conversation is being have with voters. And that's the Clinton campaign to swing voters.
And as a result you're seeing places that used to be solid red states for republicans are now tilting back into the democratic column. That's a huge problem.
LEMON: I heard Paul Manafort talking about how much money they raised yesterday on State of the Union. What are going to do with all that? You said that, you know, Hillary Clinton had ads everywhere. What's going to happen with all that money now, John Brabender of John...
KING: Well, people have been waiting -- people have been waiting and urging them to get on the air especially in these key battleground states to make the argument John Brabender is talking about.
Change Washington. Create jobs. And then republicans are happy with the crooked Hillary. They just want it to come after change Washington and create jobs. But Donald Trump is still not on the air in any of these swing states.
MADDEN: Yes. And the problem is that there aren't many ads that will have a huge impact after Labor Day.
BRABENDER: That's the point. The ads on right now are a lot more important than when you do come to September and October...
MADDEN: That's right.
BRABENDER: ... because there's so much of a megaphone out there where they're hearing from anybody. I think it's a big mistake they're not on the air right now, if, indeed, they raised this type of money.
LEMON: John, John, Kevin, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
KING: Great to be with you as always.
LEMON: Straight ahead, as Donald Trump tries to stay on message, he's also upping his attacks on the media. But is that a winning strategy? We're going to talk about it next.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Donald Trump claiming Hillary Clinton lacks the judgment, stability and temperament to be president. Clinton, meanwhile campaigning in Pennsylvania with Vice President Joe Biden who says Trump is totally unqualified to sit in the Oval Office.
I want to bring in now Jennifer Granholm, the former Governor of Michigan who supports Hillary Clinton and Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee republican who supports Donald Trump.
Hello to both of you. Thanks for coming on this evening.
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: Hello.
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Hi, Don.
LEMON: Hi. Trump trying to get back on message today. Let's take a listen to one of his attacks on Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton lacks the judgment as said by Bernie Sanders, stability, and temperament and the moral character to lead our nation.
Importantly, she also lacks the mental and physical stamina to take on ISIS and all of the many adversaries we face. Not only in terrorism, but in trade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So, Congresswoman, you first. Why is Donald Trump saying she lacks the mental and physical stamina to take on ISIS?
BLACKBURN: Well, I think what he is doing is kind of repeating what you see about Hillary Clinton and a word cloud where people challenge her trustworthiness, her focus on issues that are important to them. The stamina to stand with it.
Look at what happened in Benghazi where they debated. For a period of time how they were going to talk about this. And if watch the film "13 Hours" you see what those individuals were living through.
And, you know, Don, I got to tell you when I'm out and about and I am talking to people in my district and I am talking to Americans who are tremendously concerned about this country, they will talk to you about national security.
Being one of the top issues about their fear of the terrorist cells that exist in this country. Their concern over that. Concern for the safety of their families. So, that's why.
LEMON: OK. I want to get the governor -- I want to get the governor now.
LEMON: Now, Governor, do you think that he's saying that she lacks the mental and physical stamina to take on ISIS? Why do you think he's saying that?
GRANHOLM: You know, it was a dog whistle to me because what I hear when he says mental and physical stamina is not a discussion about policy. I hear -- I hear something that I think a lot of women hear, and this is just me. I hear it as being somehow she's weaker, she can't deal with foreign
policy. That's what -- that's what I hear. I don't know that that's what he meant, but his arguments should be on the policy.
[22:30:00] And by the way, Don, I mean, talk about somebody who has -- who lacks the -- I don't want to say mental ability, but, I mean, he certainly been all over the map on the policy that he talked about today.
In 2002, he said that he was in favor of going into Iraq. Today he says he was against. In 2007, he says that we should in fact get out of Iraq. Today he says we should stay in Iraq. When he talks about Moammar Gadhafi, in 2011, there's a taped interview saying that Moammar Gadhafi should be out. Today he says not so much, we maybe should have left him there.
Same thing with Mubarak in Egypt. Is he in favor of a big military and having a very aggressive presence in Iraq today? Or is he in favor of withdrawing and not having a big presence. Just a second.
BLACKBURN: But Jennifer.
GRANHOLM: Just one more.
LEMON: Give her chance to response, though.
GRANHOLM: Is he in favor -- let me just finish this one more, I will.
GRANHOLM: But, you know, the question about NATO, is he -- a week ago he says NATO is lousy and we should be not defending our allies. Today he says we should be going after ISIS with NATO. Which Donald Trump is it? He was a hot mess today. And it is expressed throughout the course of his campaign.
LEMON: Congresswoman, I want you to respond. But I want to move on to a different topic. So, quickly if you can on this issue, how do you respond?
BLACKBURN: Well, I think that listening to Jennifer, one of the things she have to realize is that the Middle East and what is happening around the world is not a static situation. It is a dynamic situation.
And, indeed, this is something if you visit with our troops and talk with our commanders in the field, they will tell you how dynamic and how fluid the situation is and how some of the missteps that have been made with the way we came down in Iraq, the way we have proceed at some points in Afghanistan, the way that has changed the situation.
LEMON: Listen. I think it's important, I want to discuss this because we've been talking a lot about media coverage, you know, he's been saying that the media is corrupt and is not treating him fairly and also talking about honesty when coming on to programs.
And also being at campaign events and telling the truth rather than telling voters non-truth. So, conservative Wisconsin radio host Charlie Sykes told the Business Insider that "Conservative media have some blame to bear for Trump's rise."
So, listen to this and Congresswoman, you're going to respond. He said, "We basically eliminated any of the referees, the gatekeepers, we created this monster."
"And look, I'm a conservative talk show host. All conservative hosts have basically established their brand as being contrasted to the mainstream media. So, we spent 20 years demonizing the liberal mainstream media."
"And by the way, a lot of it has been justified. There is real bias. But at a certain point, you wake up to realize you have destroyed the credibility of any credible media outlet out there"
And then he says, he goes on to say, that "I get called a turncoat," and I'm paraphrasing here or so, what have you, simply because he won't repeat things that are not true on his conservative -- he won't buy into conspiracy theories or say things that are not true on the air.
So, how do you respond to that, congresswoman? Is he -- I know he's a never-Trumper person. What's your reaction to this?
BLACKBURN: Well, there is a lot of truth in what he says. You can go in and look at what people believe about the evening news. Most people don't believe what they're hearing on the evening news and think that much of what they're hearing on TV is biased and that is why people are gravitating to building their own networks between web sites. Facebook. YouTube. Things of that nature.
LEMON: But, Congresswoman, what he's saying is exactly the opposite. He's saying that...
BLACKBURN: It is a change.
LEMON: He's saying that conservative radio, conservative hosts have built up this thing that mainstream news or media which is even if you're fact check, that is not telling the truth then some crazy web site that you're supposed to believe something on a crazy web site rather than people who have studied their whole lives, who are looking at the facts who have...
BLACKBURN: Yes. I understand that, but what I'm saying, Don, is yes, those alternative sources are where people are gathering their news now. What Charlie is saying about how they have spoken out against the media many times. That is true.
But the media has in part done this to themselves it's because they bring editorializing.
LEMON: But that's not -- that's not news.
BLACKBURN: They bring editorializing into what should be the reporting. Now, what people want, I have people every day that tell me, you know, I watch S-Span because I want to hear it come out of people's mouths. So, I want to hear it for myself.
And whoever would have thought we would have people in the country that would be watching C-Span.
LEMON: I want the governor to get in.
BLACKBURN: But, Don, people want the truth. They want to know the facts and they don't want any gimmicks. They just want to have the facts.
LEMON: So, Governor, even if you hear some people, many people hear it on S-Span, they hear it coming from, you know, Hillary Clinton's mouth or Donald Trump's mouth.
[22:35:04] Or if you fact check someone in real time on a program like this one, it is still not believed even though it is the fact. He's saying that we conservatives have created this monster meaning him and other conservatives.
GRANHOLM: I, you know, it's hard to lay the blame at any one individual, but I do think as a strategy for Donald Trump to go after the media is not a really smart idea. Really what he ought to be going or any candidate ought to be going after are the things that are hurting citizens out there and many citizens really do appreciate, for example, their local media.
They love their local paper. They appreciate their local anchors. They know them. They see them in the community. And they may even like the anchors on CNN, they even like -- they watch you. Your viewers like you. They watch you.
So, to attack broadly the media in the same way you don't attack somebody who buys ink by the barrel, you shouldn't be attacking the people who are bringing the citizens your policies, your words. It's just not a great strategy.
LEMON: Thank you, Governor. Thank you, representative. I appreciate it.
LEMON: See you guys soon.
GRANHOLM: You bet. Thank you. LEMON: When we come right back, Donald Trump's plan to protect us from ISIS, what would it mean for refugees trying to escape oppression?
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Well, Donald Trump's tough talk on ISIS help him with voters?
Here to discuss now, Buck Sexton, CNN political contributor and former CIA analyst, and Angela Rye, CNN political commentator, also with me Andre Bauer, the former lieutenant governor of South Carolina and a trump supporter, and Bakari Sellers, CNN political commentator and a Hillary Clinton supporter.
Gang's all here. I don't have to separate you two in the studio, all right? Buck, you first. I want to get your reaction. Your take on Donald Trump's foreign policy speech and his plan for ISIS. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The time is overdue to develop a new screening test for the threats we face today. I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting.
Our country has enough problems. We don't need more. And these are problems like we've never had before.
In addition to screening out all members of the sympathizers of terrorist groups we must also screen out any who have hostile attitudes toward our country or its principles or who believe that Sharia law should supplant American law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, Buck, how's that supposed to work?
BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not clear on the details. Look, extreme vetting to me is being a 30 something in New York on a first date. I don't know what he means by extreme vetting.
There already is a vetting process in place for refugees. The question about how many refugees one would let in is something that I think both the campaigns are going to continue litigate. But he does raise some issues.
I mean, the strongest part of the speech as he gave it was framing this as an issue sort of akin to the Cold War, that the fight against radical Islamic radicalism has been to be fought of in a global scope, has to be taken with that sort of seriousness.
There's a lot of places where there's agreement with allies and with what we're going to do about counterterrorism programs going forward. Between the two campaigns, I mean, so much of this is sort of baked in...
LEMON: Just on this speech, so what did you think about that sort of speech?
SEXTON: Well, that was specifically in this speech. He was saying that this is -- this this sort of the new Cold War. And I would just say this when people talk about Trump's tough talk on ISIS and they say oh, it's all just sort of all bluster.
I think there's a general perception whether it's a reality or not we can't really know unless this actually happens. That if there were a major terrorist attack on U.S soil between now and the election, it would benefit Donald Trump.
That's because people have a belief or at least many people have a belief that he takes this issue with more seriousness and has a better understanding of who the enemy is and how we're dealing...
LEMON: I'm going to get my other panelists in. Andre, you now. He says it isn't just about Muslims, it would apply to refugees from countries with anti-Semitic, anti-gay or a misogynistic views and laws as well.
But I mean, how -- is it the problem that refugees are often fleeing the oppression in countries like those who are the freedom of the United States? Andre?
ANDRE BAUER, FMR. LT. GOV OF SOUTH CAROLINA: Donald Trump had a good day today. He stayed on message today. He delivered a powerful speech. He's been well received by multitude of different media outlets. And he gave a vision. He talked about things that real Americans are concerned with.
He talked about being a tolerant society but they'd have to embrace our way of life. A new screening system. A vetting system. He talked about finding common ground with Russia. Much like the current administration's done with Cuba.
You know, do we want them to continually to be our enemy? I'd rather have them as our at least someone we try to work with on certain issues. That doesn't mean we have to always trust them. But if they can help us fight ISIS, great, we need everybody we can to help us.
So, I thought he had a great vision today. Ideologically, he talked about condemning hatred, oppression, violence, of radical Islam. So, I thought he was on message. I was real happy that he stayed on message. Didn't veer off and he delivered a good speech there.
LEMON: Bakari, why are you laughing at that?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, I just think that Andre's comparison of Cuba and Russia is vastly off but it also feeds into this kind of ignorant view that Donald Trump has of the world.
But to get to your point, to answer your question, when you talk about the Christians that are being brutalized in Syria and how they're fleeing that brutal oppression, they would not even be allowed in the United States of America under Donald Trump's plan.
I think one of the most amazing things about his plan, about this whole new litmus test was he said we will find out more about this plan after I take the oath of office.
That is not a plan. That is leaving all the details and all the nuances up in the air. I thought Donald Trump today was very, very dangerous. I mean, I think if we take a step back and we say that at least he framed it as the Cold War, at least he framed it with some type of world view that may be one step forward.
But the fact he wants to go at it alone, the fact that he wants America to retreat, what it reminded me of was one of the darkest moments in our history when we had this Japanese internment camp...
[22:45:02] LEMON: OK.
SELLERS: .... where we sacrificed and suspended the Constitution which is what Donald Trump wants us to do.
LEMON: Angela Rye, I want you to get in on this. He said you can't come in the country unless you agree with our values and agree with our principles.
ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, a few things. One is there are people who in this country right now who don't agree with some of our values and principles. He talked about, you know, Muslim countries that are anti-LGBT.
We have states that are just like that. His vice presidential candidate is just like that. Has, you know, instituted laws in Indiana just like that. And so I just wonder about the hypocrisy there. He also called out Somalian...
LEMON: Hang on. He didn't issue laws for the killings because in some of those people have killed gay people off...
RYE: Yes. But when they're anti-LGBT.
RYE: And so, I'm just saying where on the spectrum it is OK? It's OK to discriminate against LGBT folks as long as you don't kill them. None of that is OK.
So, at some point you just have to -- you have to be responsible for some of your actions. He also talked about Somalians in Minnesota. Those types of things are the very basis, the foundation for profiling in this country.
So, he also has to be responsible for his rhetoric. To Bakari's point, he said that he once again saw dangerous Donald Trump today. Again, Donald Trump was reckless.
He talked about Hillary Clinton's physical stamina. You also saw sexist Donald Trump show up today. So, even though he was reading from a prompter, his message isn't one that resonates with me. So, he wasn't on that.
LEMON: All right. Stay with me, everyone. When we come right back, more headaches for Hillary Clinton on e-mails where the latest news hurt her with voters.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: back with me now, Buck Sexton, Angela Rye, Andre Bauer, and Bakari Sellers.
So, Bakari, Rudy Giuliani who arguably could be considered one of Trump's best advocates on terror-related issues, opened for Donald Trump and he said something that has a lot of New Yorkers doing a double take. A lot of Americans. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Under those eight years, before Obama came along, we didn't have any successful radical Islamic terrorist attack in the United States. They all started when Clinton and Obama got into office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, except for 9/11 the Trump campaign clarified saying Giuliani was referring to the time after 9/11 and before Obama had been sworn into office. And we hear Giuliani had just talked about 9/11 right before that statement. So, what's your take on that, Bakari?
SELLERS: Well, I mean, Rudy Giuliani also thought that he was in Ohio as well at the beginning of that speech. And I don't want to necessarily hone in on Rudy Giuliani and his comments as much as I want to talk about the fact-free environment that Donald Trump and his surrogates are living in.
And the ones that they're trying to pull over in the media which makes your job and many other host jobs so difficult because you have to fact check instantaneously as you interview and talk to these people.
I mean, what you saw today was Donald Trump in his speech and not only Rudy Giuliani, but they tried to rewrite history. I mean, the fact that Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani cannot actually stare the American public in the face and actually just give a natural progression of history is very, very problematic.
In this fact-free America that we're living in is very, very dangerous. It's Trump's new America.
LEMON: All right. Let's move on and talk about Hillary Clinton. The FBI is going to hand over their interview notes from their meeting with Hillary Clinton over her e-mail use. They don't have a full script. Just notes.
And I know Bakari, you think that there's nothing in these e-mails. But as long as this story continues to dribble out, doesn't it hurt Hillary Clinton?
SELLERS: Well, it's the only arrow the Republican Party has. I think what you're starting to see is Reince Priebus, you're starting to see the House oversight committee, many of these House committees.
All they want to do is keep her under the cloud of investigation throughout the campaign because that's the only hope they have to actually save down-ballot races.
This is nothing more than a political ploy. But I do know that if this is going to be leaked as we know it is, I hope they don't leak these notes part and parcel. I hope the American public gets to see them all in full.
That's the only way that this can be fully flashed out. I think it's a dangerous precedent. But since we're here, let's at least let the American public see them all.
LEMON: Is this the only you think fault that they can point to, Buck, for Hillary Clinton?
SEXTON: No, I think they can point to many things that Donald Trump actually mentioned today in his speech as foreign policy failures. Specifically Libya which she was a big advocate for and as we know Libya has turned out very poorly.
In fact, if you look at a map of the Middle East and you pick out a country and look at it today versus what it looked like in, say, 2008, it is invariably worse than it was. And I think that's a legacy of both the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State.
And by the way, this notion that somehow the e-mail is a dodge or this is a distraction or this is just for politics, anybody with a security clearance.
And I would challenge anyone who has had one to come on the program and say that if you had sent 100 classified e-mails, you don't think your career would be over, you wouldn't be stripped of your clearance and you don't think you would lose your job.
SELLERS: That's not true, Buck.
LEMON: But it's not sent 100 classified e-mail.
SEXTON: Excuse me, there were 100 instances of classified -- the FBI director has said this.
RYE: There are three.
LEMON: OK. Let them answer -- let them answer to your thing. Go ahead, Bakari first then Angela.
SELLERS: Well, first that's not true.
RYE: Bakari, hurry up. You've been filibustering. Go ahead.
SELLERS: I know. But that's not true. There were three e-mails -- there were three e-mails and they were partially marked and not marked correctly. So, you can't say that there was 100 e-mails.
SEXTON: Well, they are over a hundred
LEMON: OK. Let Angela get in.
SEXTON: This is nonsense. Anybody with Google can check this. There are over 100 instances and a classified information sent. This is what the FBI director said.
LEMON: OK, Buck, let them respond. Go ahead.
SEXTON: Well, I mean, we can't contend over this.
LEMON: So, Buck, you're doing, now you see the problem where you think something is true and know it to be true but the people on the thing, you don't think that they believe you.
SELLERS: That's not true.
LEMON: But what you're saying is not true. It's actually -- it's actually more specific than that. I mean, if that's accurate...
SEXTON: I'm not giving a lecture on classification which I know more about than the other panelist...
LEMON: There's actually more -- there's more nuance to it than what you're doing...
SEXTON: I'm very familiar with the norms.
RYE: So, here's the challenge. There were e-mails that became classified later. As you know, having a security clearance, we have something called over classification in this country where things are overly classified when they shouldn't be. There are also things that be classified that become classified
material later on. Those are the e-mails you're referencing. The three that were not properly marked, yes, director Comey said that she should have known -- I'm not...
SEXTON: Extremely careless. Extremely careless.
RYE: OK, Buck. Well, you can yell the hell over me the whole time if you want to but that does not make it right.
SEXTON: That's his verbiage. This is the FBI's words. I'm not yelling, but...
LEMON: That's fine, but go ahead.
RYE: So, all I'm telling you is maybe they were not properly marked. That is what has been said.
[22:55:00] Both by Elijah Cummings who's ranking on government reform and also on the Benghazi special committee. And you also heard that from director COmey.
Does that mean that she should have known? No. But what my point to you is this is -- this is a pointless, useless, I'm not pointing.
SEXTON: It's not pointless. What she did is reckless. What she did is absolutely reckless
RYE: When you can continue to scream over me? It was -- it was...
SEXTON: No, I'm sitting here being filibustered on an issue that...
RYE: You're not. The only person filibustering is you.
LEMON: You're not being filibustered, you talk more than anybody on the panel.
RYE: I mean, hello!
SEXTON: That would be a first.
LEMON: You have. You've spoken more than anybody else on the panel.
RYE: The person and relax and you're still...
SEXTON: Here we go.
LEMON: Go ahead.
RYE: So, my only thing to you is at some point we have to be responsible with taxpayer dollars. You all are normally the party of fiscal conservatism and we continue to waste money on this because you're losing an election so abysmally. You look at battleground poll after battleground poll and now you have this.
LEMON: OK. Let him go. Go ahead.
SEXTON: What she did was reckless. There's no discussion that the FBI director said that what she did was extremely careless. They were considering criminal charges up to possibly felony charges for what she did.
This is not up for debate or discussion. Bill Clinton saying that the FBI is just coming up with this out of nowhere is nonsense. We don't expect from Bill Clinton.
And anybody who has held the clearance and I still haven't had an answer to this question, would tell you that if they did what Hillary Clinton did, they would definitely be fired, they would definitely have their clearance stripped, and they would worried about being criminally prosecuted.
And we're being told that this woman who was Secretary of State did all this and we shouldn't care, we should trust her with the nuclear codes, she knows what she's doing.
LEMON: But Buck, isn't there Trump card has said none of this happened. Everything that you're saying...
SELLERS: I know. Thank you. And you can't suspend reality.
SEXTON: No. Actually the FBI said that the e-mail system that the e- mail system was used on foreign soil and is open to any kind of hacking.
LEMON: But she wasn't prosecuted.
SELLERS: But how many times -- right.
SEXTON: She wasn't prosecuted.
SELLERS: Don, if I may.
SEXTON: But that's different than saying what she did was OK.
RYE: Nobody said it was OK, but they've already -- they reprimanded her. So, I don't know what else you want to happen.
BAUER: Who else in House and get with the runway and meet with the attorney general.
RYE: That's what happens sometimes when you don't handle classified materials correctly. LEMON: Hang on. Stand by. Stand by. Stand by. Andre, go ahead. Andre has spoken the least. Go ahead, Andre.
BAUER: I said who else gets to have their husband but right days before sit on the runway and talk to the attorney general? I mean, they have an air of corruption, they so many contacts within the government and this is why the people are frustrated.
Look. Don't think Hillary Clinton is not scared. She cringes every time we talk about e-mails, about like she cringes to hear what Bill Clinton was doing last weekend probably in Las Vegas.
They know this is a smoking gun. They know there's a big problem there. And that's why they continue to run from it because it is deception at the highest level and you're right. Anyone else would be going to jail for the same thing.
RYE: And you're running from one thing. One word for you tonight, Andre, and Buck, Russia. Deal with that.
SEXTON: Can we deal with...
BAUER: Hey, if you want to talk Russia, Hillary Clinton's taken more from Russia than probably any American in history.
RYE: I know. And you know what, (Inaudible) Trump and Pence out of press release today quoting The New York Times six times and you guys...
SEXTON: You say...
RYE: And you guys because I'll be feisty.
LEMON: Stand by. I've got to get to -- we're going to talk about Russia and everything else in the next hour. I am so over right now.
All right. Thank you, guys. We'll be right back.
[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)