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Trump Tries To Win African American Support; Trump Spells Out Major Shift In Immigration Plan; Inside The Discrimination Lawsuit Trump Settled; Italy Earthquake: At Least 159 Dead, Towns Destroyed. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 24, 2016 - 20:30   ET


[20:00:19] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks very much for joining us.

Donald Trump is speaking shortly in Jackson, Mississippi, possibly making news. We've just learned he told another news outlet what exactly his new plans are on immigration. It is a major shift from what we've been hearing from Donald Trump in his campaign. If you've been watching this program over the past few days, you know we've been getting hints about it.

Tonight, we do know the details and we'll tell you what they are and see if he talks about it at tonight's rally.

Also a 360 exclusive: Secretary Hillary Clinton joins us in her first national television interview in nearly a month. She's facing more heat and sources say the campaign expected or the Clinton Foundation. Her husband fired back late today and perhaps she will, too, tonight.

Plenty to talk about, in any case.

We begin, though, with a new batch of polling.

CNN chief national correspondent and "INSIDE POLITICS" anchor John King joins us now to break it down by the numbers.

So, let's get down to basics. Who has the edge in these polls, John?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, for the first time in a couple of weeks, encouraging poll numbers from Donald Trump tonight. He still has a long way to go and encouraging numbers, especially let's start out in the red state of Arizona. There's been talk Hillary Clinton could compete there. We'll get deeper to that in a moment.

But among likely Arizona voters, Donald Trump at 45, Hillary Clinton at 38, 12 percent for the libertarian Gary Johnson, 4 percent for the green party candidate Jill Stein. That's significant, 16 percent for the third party candidates, but a 7-point lead among likely Arizona voters in the general in a state some thought might move Clinton's way. So, Donald Trump in good shape here.

Here, Anderson, in the battleground of battle grounds, North Carolina and Florida, probably the most competitive states in presidential politics right now. This is -- if you look at other recent polling, good news for Donald Trump. He's been a bit behind in North Carolina and other polls, in our new polling among likely North Carolina voters, a dead heat, 45 percent to 45 percent. Again, Gary Johnson getting 9 percent, Jill Stein, not on the ballot in North Carolina.

So this is more of a three-way race there, but a dead heat, 45-45 again, and Hillary Clinton still has an easier path to 270. There have been other favorable battleground state polling for her, but for Donald Trump tonight, these numbers are reasonably encouraging.

COOPER: What about all that talk of Arizona being in play for the Democrats? Why is Clinton struggling there?

KING: Let's take a look. A couple of interesting things, one is this. Again, I mentioned the 16 percent for the third-party candidates, one thing that is doing is giving all voters a different option, including Latinos. Hillary Clinton gets 57 percent of the Hispanic vote in Arizona, much more than Donald Trump.

But look at Gary Johnson, he's getting 15 percent. So, Secretary Clinton underperforming where President Obama was and President Obama lost Arizona four years ago. That's a big deal. The third-party candidates are drawing, yes, they draw some votes away from Donald Trump, too.

Don't get me wrong, the white votes, perhaps. But that' a big number and Hillary Clinton underperforming among Latinos because you have 20 percent of Latinos looking at the other candidates and that's one reason it's happening, Anderson.

The other one is, look, this is a Republican state. Most states late in the election go back to their DNA. Donald Trump leads by 12 points on the economy, eight points on terrorism, six points on immigration, three points on health care.

Hillary Clinton leads only on foreign policy. So, in a traditionally Republican state, the Republican candidate has a big edge on the top issues.

COOPER: And North Carolina obviously not only a battleground state and a giant test of Trump's promise to do better with African-American voters. Any evidence he has a chance there?

KING: Let's just say that the baseline is pretty low. Look, he just started this this past week, this consistent appeal for African- American voters. So, let's see how it plays out in the ten weeks ahead, but look at that number.

Three percent of African-Americans of North Carolina at the moment say they're voting for Donald Trump, it's nearly 20 percent of the state's voting electorate. It could be higher than that number come November. He's only getting 3 percent right now.

That's not the number. Hillary Clinton at 88 percent, again, Gary Johnson taking some of the vote that might go to the Democrat away there. That's something worth watching there.

But that's a low number for Donald Trump and we'll see, Anderson, if that number goes up and he just started this appeal in a sustained way, but he starts from a weak position.

One other interesting thing in North Carolina, I want to show you. We've seen this throughout this election, but look at this. The education gap, the level of your education says a lot about how you're going to vote for this election. Look at white non-college graduates in North Carolina, a 42-point advantage for Donald Trump.

That is why this race is so close right now, a dead heat, 65 to 23. If you have a college degree, you are more likely to go for Secretary Clinton. She has a 12-point edge there, but that is simply stunning to look at the education, the vast splits among education and the gap among non-college graduates and how lopsided they are for Trump.

COOPER: John, stay with us, because I also want to bring in our chief political correspondent Dana Bash, and CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod, host of Axe Files podcast, and, of course, former senior adviser to President Obama.

David, Virginia, Arizona, North Carolina, all traditionally red states that have occasionally turned blue in some races. If you looked at North Carolina in the last 30 years, it only turned blue once for Obama back in '08. It would be a huge win for the Clinton campaign if she carried that state.


Now, we should say that Virginia has been trending more Democratic. The demographics of the state are -- have changed in favor of Democrats North Carolina, the same.

[20:05:01] But it is clearly a pure battleground state now. Obama lost by a couple of points last time, won it by a couple of points the time before, and it's going to be a big battleground state this time.

One thing that interests me about John's numbers, Anderson, is this issue of African-Americans and college-educated whites. What you see and what Donald Trump is doing now is a recognition that he has to do marginally better among minorities if he can, but he also has to persuade college-educated whites that he's not a bigot, that they can feel comfortable with him. So, this outreach to minority voters is not -- it's more of a bank shot in many ways than a direct appeal to those voters.

COOPER: And it will be interesting, Dana, to see if national polls shift in the next week or two now that we've heard more of a more focused Donald Trump and certainly, Hillary Clinton has had a bad couple of days in the news cycle.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And, you know, we're almost getting to the point where the national polls are -- obviously, they're a snapshot and they give us a sense of the temperature of the country and the electorate, but these battleground states are more important.

COOPER: And the Trump campaign is acknowledging and refocusing.

BASH: No question about it. No question about it.

I have to say, North Carolina in particular, when I saw the numbers earlier today, I was pretty surprised at how incredibly tight it is. It is neck and neck. To David's point, North Carolina, had been -- I mean, yes, it went back to Romney in 2012, but it has been trending more Democratic and I talked to many Republicans looking at North Carolina who had been worried that it just doesn't seem like Trump country and yet he's completely in the hunt with Hillary Clinton there.

COOPER: The latest, though, on immigration is fascinating.

I mean, John, in a Hannity town hall airing later tonight Trump spoke about immigration policy and he said those who stayed in the country would have to pay back taxes but that no amnesty. You say ironically, that's Jeb Bush's position.

KING: That is essentially Jeb Bush's 2016 position. Jeb Bush was once for a path to citizenship. He said in 2016, you could no longer sell that and the American people would be ready for it, so you should have a path to legal status where -- and he said, you'd get rid of the criminals, which Donald Trump also said tonight, you throw the bad ones out. But Jeb Bush's position in the 2016 primaries was, you have a path to legal status, people pay back taxes and some kind of a penalty, and the good ones, those who have been law-abiding, get to say. Donald Trump mocked that position.

He said Jeb Bush's position was the weakest in the field. Jeb Bush also said people comes as an act of love, they come to be with the families and it was the tone as much as the policy Trump was mocking, but he ridiculed Jeb Bush, said he was the weakest candidate on immigration in the primaries. Now, he's essentially taking the Bush position and a Bush spokeswoman just tweeted a few months ago saying, they're not surprised by this at all that Governor Bush predicted months ago, Donald Trump once he got to a general election if he did would have to flip-flop.

COOPER: And there is Donald Trump taking the stage in Mississippi.

Dana, it is incredible because there were Republicans on that stage during the primary races who were saying this is not -- you can't -- you can't kick out 11 million people as Donald Trump was saying. They've all got to go out and the good ones come back in.

BASH: Absolutely, and he was really, really specific about it. There were areas of gray.

COOPER: There would be a door in the wall, and the good ones could come back in.

BASH: Exactly. But the primary point is that he wanted some kind of deportation force. His word, not mine, to go around and get everybody and only those who were not criminal or at least had criminal backgrounds could get in line to come back in and stay legally.

That is very, very different from allowing people to stay and not kicking them out. It is as you said at the top of the program the way the campaign has been signaling, he is likely to go and it certainly is another step in his appeal to not just minorities, but as David was saying to the rest of the Republican Party saying, you know what? The people who are reluctant to go with him, you know what? He is more tolerant than I thought. We'll see if it sticks.

COOPER: We'll be monitoring the rally tonight to see if he talks about this, because obviously, the rallies, the big high point for Trump supporters is him talking about building a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it. This does -- how much of a risk does this come for Donald Trump with, that some of the hard core supporters who liked that policy, that, you know, all 11 million have got to leave. Now, that's no longer the case.

AXELROD: Yes, one of the interesting things is how he handles this in front of the crowds versus not in front of the crowds. They have him tied to teleprompters now, so he's reading a script, but he really leans into the wall line, still just to let people know hey, it's still me. Don't worry about it, we're still going to be tough.

But I think the danger for Trump is to -- one, this is such a -- the general election pivots are common in American presidential politics, but they're generally more a gentle slope than this, more of a gentle slope than this.

[20:10:00] This is an 180-degree turn, and so, it could be that the people he's hoping to appeal to with it don't believe him and the people who are with him get angry about it, and that everybody that it contributes with everybody to a notion of a guy who is not serious and maybe not entirely stable.

So, you know, there are some risks associated with this, but at the course and speed that he was on the last six weeks, the biggest risk of all would be to keep on doing what he was doing.

COOPER: It's interesting, John. I mean, we had Kellyanne Conway on last night and I went back with here numerous, numerous times and the campaign isn't coming out and saying, yes, no more deportation force, yes, the 11 million people, that they are no longer going to have to leave.

They're trying to just basically focus on, we're going to follow the laws. You know, we're going to go after criminals. They're not kind of saying that this is a major shift, which is what it is.

KING: I want to see the whole Hannity interview to see if he says more than they've released tonight. But he says, pay back taxes. That means you can stay. If you don't pay back taxes, then you're being deported.

That is the President Obama's position. That is Jeb Bush's position.

AXELROD: Exactly. KING: You deport the criminals and those who -- now, the president would like to give a path to citizenship. Donald Trump said you have to pay back taxes as part of the getting the path to citizenship.

Donald Trump is saying no. He says this is not amnesty. I would -- you ask a Republican in Jackson, Mississippi, you ask Jeff Sessions, senior Trump adviser, you ask Steve King, the congressman from Iowa, they consider letting them stay amnesty, period. Even if you make them pay back taxes. So, this is going to stir up the conservatives without a doubt.

One other point, Anderson, a lot of Republicans and Trump supporters and non-Trump supporters are just rolling their eyes why did you do this today at a time when there is sustained Clinton Foundation. Why would you possibly flip on immigration at a time when you actually had the initiative in the campaign?

COOPER: And as I said, Secretary Clinton is going to be on the program. We're obviously going to talk to her a lot.

John King, Dana Bash, David Axelrod -- thanks.

Plenty more to come the next two hours. We'll continue to monitor the Trump rally to bring you the headlines especially on the immigration.

And as I said, Hillary Clinton joining us. New reporting on the Clinton Foundation story and her campaign's counterattack.

Plus with Donald Trump in the middle with the outreach to African- American voters, we'll tell you a defining moment of his battle with the Justice Department over allegations the company systematically kept African-American tenants out of Trump buildings.


[20:16:10] COOPER: Donald Trump speaking right now in Mississippi. The campaign telling us he will be laying out a big change in his immigration plan. We'll bring you details when he does.

We'll also be hearing shortly and exclusively from Hillary Clinton who has not given this kind of television interview since the end of last month. Tomorrow in Reno, Nevada, she will make her first campaign appearance for the week after spending the last few days raising money with some high-profile individuals, even taking a photo booth selfie or two with Justin Timberlake and Jessica Biel at a Hollywood fund- raiser.

What she has not been doing and this may change tonight is publicly confronting Donald Trump and his allegations. However, CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports, her campaign has been pushing back hard.


JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, Hillary Clinton back on defense. The Clinton Foundation in Donald Trump's crosshairs. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary Clinton is desperate

to cover up her crimes.

ZELENY: As she raises millions on a star-studded California swing, off the campaign trail for a third straight day, Trump is having a field day with an "Associated Press" report reviewing Clinton's calendar during part of her time at the State Department. It found more than half of her non-government have visitors gave money to the Clinton Charitable Foundation.

Clinton aides said those figures are just not true and former President Bill Clinton weighing in tonight for the first time.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: We're trying to do good things. If there is something wrong with creating jobs and saving lives, I don't know what it is.

ZELENY: At a stop in Atlanta, he said more safeguards would be put into place if his wife is elected.

CLINTON: We'll have to do more than he did when she was secretary of state, because if you make a mistake, there's always appeal to the White House if you're secretary of state. If you're president, you can't.

ZELENY: Chief strategist Joel Benenson telling CNN's Chris Cuomo that Trump's suggestions of pay-for-play are false, noting that Trump also gave money to the foundation, known for its humanitarian work around the globe.

JOEL BENENSON, CHIEF STRATEGIST: Donald Trump gave $100,000 to the foundation. It's a big donation. Was he paying for play?

ZELENY: It' hardly the quiet August Clinton was hoping for. She's leading in national and swing state polls, but fighting a new round of critical headlines over the foundation and her private e-mail server at the State Department.

Friends of Clinton tell CNN the campaign was taken off guard, believing the foundation controversy was behind them. The campaign has reacted slowly because Bill and Hillary Clinton have long believed the good works of the foundation outweigh any appearances of conflict.

Clinton is hoping to turn the page in a speech Thursday, blasting Trump far beyond questioning his temperament.

Aides say she will highlight a disturbing connection between Trump and the alt-right conservative movement often associated with white nationalism.

AD NARRATOR: Trump's products have been made in 12 other countries.

ZELENY: She's also highlighting his outsourcing in a new campaign ad.

AD NARRATOR: Donald Trump says he'll make America great again while he's taking the shirts right off our backs. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Jeff Zeleny joins us now.

Have we seen any direct evidence to support Donald Trump's claim the Clinton Foundation was a pay-to-play?

ZELENY: Anderson, there really is no evidence that we or anyone has pointed to that proves pay-for-play. There's no smoking gun, if you will. But that doesn't mean foreign governments or anyone wouldn't try to influence Secretary Clinton or another President Clinton. It simply opens the door to conflicts of interest.

Now, the Obama White House was so concerned about this back in 2009 when this was set up and other Democrats also have raised questions about it. Politically speaking, it simply validates many concerns and worries that some people have about her candidacy.

Can they trust her? Is she being honest?

Anderson, all of this comes as we learned that she is set to receive her first classified intelligence briefing on Saturday in New York, the same one Donald Trump received last week. Another sign this election is so closer, Anderson, and these controversies are still hanging over her campaign.

[20:20:00] COOPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny -- Jeff, thanks again.

Hillary Clinton will be joining us later in the program.

Meantime, Donald Trump on stage right now in Jackson, Mississippi, and Jim Acosta is there.

Can you flush out, Jim, this immigration news a bit, because it does seem like a major change in policy for Donald Trump?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think that's right, Anderson. I think this is the beginning of an etch-a-sketch moment by Donald Trump. We are being told by the campaign that during the speech here in Jackson, Mississippi, this evening, Donald Trump will be talking about some specifics about his immigration plan.

He previewed this pivot or change in course for his campaign on one of the other cable networks tonight, saying that he will be requiring under his immigration plan that undocumented immigrants who have been law abiding paid back taxes but they get to stay in this country. He is saying that this is not amnesty, but at the same time, Anderson, by all appearances by what we're seeing in this interview that he did earlier today, there is no mass deportation force, there is no round them up type of call coming from Donald Trump, anymore which is a huge departure from where he was during the campaign.

During the primary process, and I can tell you right now, Anderson, on the stage behind me, this is sort of an interesting moment, a surreal moment. One of the architects of the Brexit, Nigel Farage, just took the stage behind me. Of course, Donald Trump has been talking about this for several weeks. They see a lot of parallels between what happened in Britain to exit the European Union and what's happening here in the United States. They're hoping that there will be a re- declaration of independence Donald Trump has been saying on the campaign trail.

They're hoping that the polls that Brexit would fail in Britain would be just as wrong here in the United States. That show right now Donald Trump is trailing Hillary Clinton in a lot of states right now, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. Jim Acosta, Jim thanks so much.

Coming up, more coming up on Donald Trump's outreach to African- Americans. The question is, is the message actually resonating? We'll hear from a group of voters who watched the Trump speech in Austin, Texas, next.


[20:25:54] COOPER: Welcome back.

Donald Trump along with Britain's Nigel Farage speaking in Jackson, Mississippi. We don't know if Trump will repeat his words to outreach to African-American voters tonight, essentially saying, what the hell do you have to lose?

Part of that message, he'd been especially blunt, and there's been no shortage of controversy sense he said many African-Americans live in poverty, have no jobs or good schools. As I said, his pitch boiled down to, what do you have to lose?


TRUMP: I say this to the African-American community: give Donald Trump a chance. We will turn it around. We will make your streets safe. So, when you walk down the street you don't get shot which is what's happening now.


COOPER: That was Donald Trump in Austin, Texas, last night.

Gary Tuchman was with a group of African-Americans who watched that speech. The question is, is his message hitting home? Take a look.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty African- Americans from Austin, Texas.

(on camera): How many Democrats do we have here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there are nine.

TUCHMAN: OK, nine Democrats.

How many Republicans?

Five Republicans?

(voice-over): The rest, independents, all watching Donald Trump's Austin rally with us.

TRUMP: Every African-American child in this country --

TUCHMAN: Most not happy with what they were hearing.

TRUMP: A good education with a great paying job. That's success.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just so easy, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not saying anything.

TUCHMAN: But among Republicans supporting Trump like these two people.

TRUMP: We're going to cut taxes and create millions and millions of new jobs.

TUCHMAN: A different vibe. More content. None of the Trump supporters here say they love the man, but they tell us that he and the GOP more reflect their values.

NATHALENE MATTHEWS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I'm just a Republican, and I'm going to support the Republican candidate whoever that person is.

TUCHMAN: Other Trump supporters look past his controversial comments and look forward to a more hands off government.

MIKE LEE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I don't care what he says. I don't care what he or any other white man says or what they do. All I want them to do is stay out of my way. I don't want them to give me nothing. Just stay out of my way. Don't put anything in my way. Let me be what I can be.

TUCHMAN: But those were the nicest things said about Trump.

TRUMP: I say this to the African community: give Donald Trump a chance.

TUCHMAN: Richard Franklin is an independent leading toward Jill Stein.

(on camera): Will those words persuade you perhaps to give him a chance?

RICHARD FRANKLIN, INDEPENDENT VOTER: I don't even know what that means, give him a chance to do what? He didn't state what he was going to do, it was some ether conversation and he had nothing at this point. So, no, I wouldn't give him a chance to hurt me. No.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): And then the Democrats.

(on camera): He hasn't convinced you of anything?

KAZIQUE PRINCE, CLINTON SUPPORTER: He hasn't convinced me of one thing at all. He's convinced me he's a liar and (INAUDIBLE).

KEITH HENRY, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I thought his rhetoric was rancorous and nonsensical.

JAMARR BROWN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: He's not just disrespectful to African-Americans and he's disrespectful to people throughout his campaign.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): But what about Trump's approach over the last week to focus parts of his speeches on making African-Americans lives better.

AKIL FRANKLIN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: He's not speaking to us. He's speaking to his base, he's trying to pivot now and come off as though he's not a racist and not a bigot, but we know who he is.

TUCHMAN: But Trump supporter Marilyn Jackson told us it's time to get real.

(on camera): He said the other day war zones are safer than living in inner cities run by Democrats, referring to places where African- Americans live . Do you find that disparaging?

MARILYN JACKSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Not necessarily, if it is the truth.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Democrat Latrese Cooke disagrees.

LATRESE COOKE, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: And to come to Texas where we have many problems with racism, and say the things that he says that try to make an appeal to black people is a joke. I wouldn't support him to do anything for me.

TUCHMAN: Mr. Trump is 76 days and counting to try to change her mind.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Austin, Texas.


COOPER: Well, a lot to talk about with our political panel. Clinton supporter Jonathan Tasini and Christine Quinn, CNN politics reporter Eugene Scott, Trump supporter, Kayleigh McEnany, conservative commentator Tara Setmayer who does not support, and Trump supporter and former South Carolina lieutenant governor, Andre Bauer.

[20:30:22] Eugene, we're not hearing from Donald Trump campaign after days of criticism that he's talking largely to white audiences that he is going to be doing some outreach perhaps in the African-American community, maybe with Ben Carson and others, do you think that going to make a difference? EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, it will certainly going to have a more significant impact than his speeches last week which were in two places that didn't have significant black voters. If he wants to reach black voters they're saying you have to be where black voters are. A lot his supporters were saying he could speak anywhere and the message goes to black voters because of what we have ...

COOPER: Whether he's talking to a national audience.

SCOTT: Well, with it's technology and internet, but black voters have ask, they said they want hear more, to come to the churches, come to the schools, come to the neighborhood. So if he does that, like he said he will, I think he could see a bit a response but perhaps not significant one.

COOPER: You, Tara was insisting Corey Lewandowski the other night on this program, who said look, he went to Chicago and that didn't work out so well because there were demonstrators there. Do you this going to make a difference?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTOR: No because, because -- OK, so Corey Lewandowski's argument the other night was asinine and also border line offensive because he either he implies that if he go to a black neighborhood and it was so out of control that Donald Trump wasn't safe which I hope that was the one he was implying.

But asides the fact that the Hyde Park area near the University of Chicago is actually rather affluent in the surrounding areas. So -- I mean the whole argument was just very convoluted and it was almost like he was trying to get to the point where I was like no matter what we do it's not good enough for you people. It was very veiled in the way that he made those things.

COOPER: Bottom line, do you think this are going to make a difference for Donald Trump going to stay in African-American church, because there are some churches and there's a pastors we have who support Donald Trump.

SETMAYER: Yeah, some of those people I'd use the term pastor very loosely. But look, Donald Trump would have an opportunity, if he was serious about this he going to Jackson, Mississippi where the black population there is the majority of the people who live there, they have -- they actually have a charter school program going on in Mississippi, where -- I mean this is the education system in Mississippi is abysmal. You have, you know, 80 to 85 percent of eighth graders that can't or -- don't read or are math proficient. And Donald Trump could go there and talk about school choice, education, maybe visit one of those successful charter schools. He's not doing any of that.

COOPER: Unless you want to ...

SETMAYER: That's an investment in the community, not just standing there in a city that happens to have black folks. Are there black people in the audience? I don't think so. KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Alan West, a conservative African- American former congressman said something very profound today, he said that Donald Trump is the first candidate -- Republican candidate to actually try to make an appeal to the African-American community. As you recall Mitt Romney dismissed 47 percent of the electorate basically said they won't be voting for me so I'm not even going to try.

Donald Trump is trying and Alan West reiterated the message that Donald Trump has put forward which is you voted into the tune of 95 percent for the Democratic Party ...

COOPER: But didn't Mitt Romney have higher poll numbers in the African-Americans?

SETMAYER: Yes, he did and so did George w. Bush and so did Nixon.

MCENANY: It is believe he listening Donald Trump collapse this week. They went from 1 percent to 2 percent now in North Carolina he's pulling at 3 percent. And I've seen polls that show 8 percent. So I think he's moving forwards, he's trying to make inroads, I think he will beat Mitt Romney's number and Alan West's question is very a profound one, which is have you seen a return on your investment.

COOPER: Jonathan, I know we see Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump or essentially tied in North Carolina. If you look at the black vote there, Clinton leads Trump 88 percent to 3 percent, Trump has nowhere to go, but up with that number really.

JONATHAN TASINI, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Yeah, nationally, I mean he's at 1 percent and I assume he thinks he can double it to 2 percent. I mean the reality is what Jamar Brown said, one of the people that was that Gary interviewed, Donald Trump's hateful language is affecting everybody and to think that African-Americans react differently than Latinos who are appalled by Donald Trump's angry, hateful language, I think misses the point, and I think that's why he's polling so low. An African-American see a guy basically anti-Latino talking about building a wall, his hateful language about immigration and that affects the way they think also about a man who is promoting hateful language.

CHRISTINE QUINN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: But, you know, Anderson, I don't think this is about actually reaching out to the African-American ...

COOPER: You think it's about white voters.

QUINN: I absolutely think ...

SETMAYER: You're right.

QUINN: ... it's another Trump con and it's about trying to gain white votes particularly among white college-educated men because Trump is poised to be the first Republican to lose that demographics. If you're really going to outreach to any community as Jonathan said you would never have said those things. You can't disappear them from the record, but you also wouldn't be starting at 70-whatever days with no real specific plan as the gentleman said.

COOPER: Andre, to that point ...

QUINN: It's not a real thing.

COOPER: ... is that -- I mean is that the same thing he's doing with immigration, you know, saying well I'm no longer talking about a deportation force and no longer talking about 11 million people have to leave, now it's you pay your back taxes and there is a path forward.

BAUER: Clearly, he's trying to reach to some demographics he's losing which I appreciate him as a Republican going to places that Republicans historically haven't looked for votes and we need to do more of that as a party, I tried to do it as lieutenant governor, work real hard at it ...

[20:35:05] SETMAYER: Where is that?

BAUER: Where did I do it?

SETMAYER: No, where has Trump gone to get votes than usually?

BAUER: As an overall theme he is working, he is now at least engaging in the conversation saying, look, I'm a better person to help you get a job, I'm the better person to help you fix education, so he's engaging in a conversation to at least start a dialogue and the crowds are getting more people color in them now.

SETMAYER: Donald Trump is talking about black people as opposed to having a conversation and talking to the black community.

QUINN: Or with.

SETMAYER: Or with, that's right. Having conversationally. He's talking about them in front of audiences that are predominantly white, that is off-putting and the fact that he doesn't have any prominent black advisers to explain to him, there is an empathy aspect of this here. If you really want to have this conversation you have to have an acknowledgment of what is got the experiences that black folks have in this country whether you think they're real or not, you have to at least acknowledge it, perception is reality.


COOPER: He is -- I mean Kayleigh to that point, he is painted with a very broad brush life for African-Americans in the United States of America, if you walk down the street you're going to get shot, your schools are falling apart ...

SETMAYER: Stereotypes.

COOPER: ... you don't have jobs, your living in poverty.

MCENANY: He's speaking to it specifically reality which is not of us on this panel can relate to and that is life in the inner city. SCOTT: Most black people don't live like that ...

MCENANY: Where in Chicago ...

SCOTT: ... most perhaps people don't live like that ...


SETMAYER: Kayleigh?

SCOTT: Look, like the stats don't support that.


MCENANY: You do, let me finish. No, I'm not saying that's most black people of course there are white people who live in inner city and Hispanic people. These articulating statistics that are a very real reality for people, for some people 4 in 10 African-American children live in poverty, that is a real number, these are numbers put forward by liberal black commentators like Tavis Smiley and Cornel West and conservatives like Ben Carson which by the way I was considered Ben Carson a prominent black adviser.


SCOTT: The majority of black Americans do not live in poverty.

MCENANY: Of course they don't.


SCOTT: He specify that if he wants to get their votes.

MCENANY: But there are a number of African-American individuals who poverty is a reality for them.

SCOTT: Of course, white people, brown people, Asian-Americans ...

MCENANY: And for Donald Trump his tried to stick to those people, there's nothing wrong with that ...


SETMAYER: The way he speaks to them is so con descending if that's the case that he cares about inner city African-Americans then why isn't he speaking about in language about empowering people to start businesses, school choice.

MCENANY: He has. We don't play ...

SETMAYER: I'm going to guarantee that you're not going to get shot walking down the street.


TASINI: And Tara's right about -- let me pick up what Tara said. It's -- and what the people on the Gary talked to said it's completely empty.

SETMAYER: There's no plan.

TASINI: It says there's no plan or (inaudible), trust me, I'm going to do this. For example ...

MCENANY: There is a plan. There's a plan in the network but ...

TASINI: ... Donald Trump -- Donald Trump opposes -- Donald Trump opposes a federal minimum wage. He wants to throw it all to the states. The Democratic Party is saying we want to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour for everybody. That affects people in the inner city and not just blacks.

QUINN: Right everything.

TASINI: All working people. Donald Trump never said a word about that.

MCENANY: Jonathan?

TASINI: He never said anything specific.

COOPER: Kayleigh?

MCENANY: I challenge folks to go watch the raw footage of Trump rally, because here's what you'll hear, you'll hear him saying that African-Americans have fought in every single war. You'll hear him say that they've raised the national conscious of this country. You will hear him proper school choice and articulate how immigration negatively affects some people in this community.

You will hear those things, it's raw footage we focus on the one thing he did wrong in trying to reach out to voters and be inclusive and you can make the argument that he is not ...


MCENANY: ... but he is trying.

COOPER: Does Donald Trump need to speak about racism? Does Donald Trump -- I mean it's one thing to say African-Americans fought in every war, there's also segregation in the military, you know, through World War II. I mean does he need to speak about that if he's really going to be speaking about life for African-American in this country.

MCENANY: Sure. I think he absolutely should, I think he should proffer a criminal justice plan. I think overall his message is one that is better for the African-American community than the Democrats.

COOPER: Right, he's talking about economic empowerment.

MCENANY: One that lifts or both economic empowerment, trade and helps all communities.

SETMAYER: And he hasn't done it. And just to put things in perspective about other Republicans. with all due respect to Alan West who I like a lot, but George W. Bush won 16 percent of the vote in Pennsylvania. He won 13 percent of the vote in Florida and 16 percent of the vote in Ohio in 2004. These are key swing states that Donald Trump absolutely needs to win and he has not done anything at any of these states that are -- that is -- that could be pointed to as effective black outreach.

COOPER: We got to take break. Here we got a lot more to talk about, just ahead as Donald Trump tries to court the African-American vote. His past getting new scrutiny decades ago as been discussed on this program. Last night he was accused of refusing to rent apartments to minorities, his employees even have a quote for marking which applications came from African-Americans. Take a look at how that lawsuit turned out, next.


[20:43:32] COOPER: As Donald Trump tries to appeal to African- American voters by asking them as he did again just now, what the hell do you have to lose? Looking to his record as a businessman reveals a major point of contention when it comes to the minority community. It dates back to the 1970s when Donald Trump was accused to refusing to rent apartments in his building to minorities. His employes were marking applications with the C, the letter C for colored.

Randi Kaye tonight looks back.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 14,000 apartments in 39 different buildings all mostly white tenants. That is until the Department of Justice took notice in 1973 and slammed Donald Trump and his father Fred Trump with a lawsuit. Trump Management was charged with discriminating against African-Americans and breaking federal law. Donald Trump then just 27 was president of the company.

The Department of Justice accused the Trumps of violating the Fair Housing Act arguing they were turning away renters based on race and color. Who tipped them off? Local activists, so-called testers posing it's potential renters at Trump's buildings mainly in Brooklyn and Queens.

Elyse Goldweber was a lawyer for the DOJ's Fair Housing Section at the time and was called on to handle the Trump case.

ELYSE GOLWEBER, FORMER ATTORNEY DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: When the black testers came they were -- they may have been shown apartment, but we were told nothing was available whereas when the white testers came, yes, there were things that were available. That would be the norm.

KAYE: And if the Trumps did rent to a black person, Goldweber recalls they would do so only at one building in Brooklyn, reserving the other buildings for white tenants.

[20:45:08] GOLDWEBER: That the white people would live in Trump Village and the people of color would live in flat bush. KAYE: And according to the Justice Department they even had a secret coding system to do it. A racial code. Here's how.

GOLDWEBER: Some of the applications were marked with a "C" which we learned that it meant colored so that the prospective tenants who had come in were noted to be colored.

KAYE: Yes, you heard her right. The Department of Justice alleged applications submitted by prospective African-American renters were designated with a secret code, such as "C" for colored to indicate a black person was looking to rent.

In true Trump fashion Donald r Trump hit back calling the government's accusations absolutely ridiculous, and telling the court, I have never nor has anyone in my organization ever to the best of my knowledge, discriminated or shown bias in the renting of our apartments.

Trump's lawyer said the government's suit failed to give names, addresses or specific incidences of discrimination, claiming the lawsuit caused substantial damage to their business and reputation, Trump took the most unusual step of suing the Justice Department for defamation, seeking $100 million in damages, but that counter suit was tossed out by the judge.

Even so, the Trump family maintained they never discriminated based on color, but were instead trying to avoid renting to people on welfare. Two years later in 1975 Trump and his father settled the case, agreeing not to discriminate against anyone. They also promised to advertise in publications aimed at minorities, familiarize themselves with the details of the Fair Housing Act and notify civil rights groups of apartment vacancies.

The Department of Justice claimed victory, but the Trumps never admitted any wrongdoing, reportedly knowing the settlement was in no way an admission of a violation.


COOPER: And Randy joins me now. Was that the end of it, did the Trumps comply with the agreement?

KAYE: It depends on you ask, because the controversy certainly continued in 1978, three years after the Department of Justice and the Trumps signed that original deal, the Department of Justice went back at them accusing them once again of discriminating against African- Americans based on the color of their skin, refusing to rent to them.

Trump's lawyer said that they did make all the required changes that they were following the Fair Housing Act, of course, he said it was a rehash of complaints planted by a group of malcontents. But the government did request compensation for the victims, they wanted assurances from the Trumps that they would allow African-Americans and Puerto Ricans in these buildings that had allegedly been designated for white tenants.

But it's really unclear as to what happened. There's nothing that's ever been written or resolved to see where this case actually went, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Randy thanks very much.

Just ahead, as I said, Secretary Clinton is going to be joining us. Also we want to take you before that to Central Italy. The death toll rising after a powerful earthquake left several towns in ruins, rescue crews scrambling now to reach victims there in the rubble, our Fred Pleitgen is on the scene with the latest.


[20:52:05] COOPER: In Central Italy, rescuer rescue workers are racing the clocks researching the rebel for survivors after a powerful earthquake. They are praying for more moments like this one.




COOPER: An 8-year-old girl no, doubt terrified but found alive. The death toll has been rising all day. At least 159 people now dead. That number all but certain to climb. Many who survived lost their homes. The town is no more. That's how a local mayor summed up the devastation.

Our Fred Pleitgen is there with the latest.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, a desperate search for survivors after the magnitude 6.2 earthquake devastated multiple towns in Italy.

EMMA TUCKER, WITNESSED EARTHQUAKE: It's absolutely appalling noise. Clinking, thundering, sort of rumble. It felt like someone put a bulldozer out of the house to try to knock it down.

PLEITGEN: Rescue workers and resident using everything from their bare hands to farm equipment to pull people from the rubble. The strong and shallow quake left Amatrice in ruins, and caused many of the ancient buildings to crumble.

Amatrice's Mayor Sergio Pirozzi telling Rai News that, "The town is no more."

SERGIO PIROZZI, MAYOR OF AMATRICE (In Translation): The important thing is to stay calm. Police officers are on their way now.

PLEITGEN: These frantic scenes playing out repeatedly before time runs out.

TOMMASO DELLA LONGA, ITALIAN RED CROSS: They found two people alive in a building that collapsed. So, this is our first priority. PLEITGEN: Just a short while ago, CNN correspondent Barbie Nadeau was nearing the end of a Facebook live Wednesday afternoon in Felitto, Italy, when a building collapsed directly behind her.

No one is allowed to sleep in the town of Amatrice tonight, Italy civil protection agency said.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (In Translation): By sheer luck, I have no idea how I survived. Just like many others. That many others did not.

PLEITGEN: More than 1,000 people have been displaced because of the quake. Jean Carlo (ph) was in a house on top of the hill that collapsed.

JEAN CARLO (PH), AMATRICE RESIDENT (In Translation): I can't go around without clothes. They gave me these shoes so at least I'm not bare foot but obviously we can't move around here. I heard people asking for help. People calling out asking for help. But in this condition, what could I do?

PLEITGEN: The regional government is asking for blood donations and the local Red Cross has asked residents to open their Wi-Fi networks to improve rescue communications. Italy's prime minister vowing to spare no effort in the critical window where lives could still be saved.

MATTEO RENZI, PRIME MINISTER OF ITALY(In Translation): It is a time when we are in shock but it is a moment for action. With my heart in my hands, I'd like to say to Italians during difficult moments, Italy knows how to react and what to do.

[20:55:05] PLEITGEN: And Pope Francis tweeting in Italian, expressing great sorrow for the people affected by the earthquake. He sent a team of six firemen from the Vatican Fire Department to aid in the search and rescue effort.


COOPER: And Fred Pleitgen joins me now. Clearly just a devastating event for the whole area. Are authorities still optimistic that more rescues are possible?

PLEITGEN: Well they certainly believe that they might still be able to find people underneath the rubble, Anderson. And interesting, because we were on hand as they were conducting the searches. Just to 10 hour and half ago, and what would happen is they would sort of go around in the rubble. And then all of a sudden they would tell everybody to be quiet, everybody, the news crews, everybody else who was doing anything else at that scene and just be quiet, because they thought they heard something under the rubble. Then they would bring in dogs to see if maybe they would find something underneath there.

In many cases, they don't. But then we just saw, in some cases they do and they think that in the first 72 hours after an earthquake like this happens, there is still a chance to find people there alive. Someone who may have had a house collapse on them but might be in some sort of pocket in there.

They believe those people have about 72 hours they could survive. After that, the chances dwindle considerably. That's one of the reasons why the Italians keep moving more assets into here, especially heavy equipment to try and cut through things like rocks, things like metal to get to people if they find them. But I do have to say, that in most cases, unfortunately, they're only able to pull dead people from the rubble here in this towns.

COOPER: Just devastating. Fred Pleitgen, appreciate you being there.

Much more ahead in this two-hour edition of "360", including our exclusive conversation with Hillary Clinton. Her first national television interview in nearly a month. I'll talk to her live, shortly.