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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
Is Trump Softening on Immigration Plan; Clinton Boards Campaign Plane with Press; Sources: ISIS Plotting More Strikes in Europe. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired September 5, 2016 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:31:44] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New questions, new clarifications, new claims of consistency from the Trump campaign about his immigration plan. This is after last week's major policy speech in which Donald Trump called for a deportation task force and promised no amnesty for undocumented immigrants. Former Mayor of New York City Rudy Giuliani now says Donald Trump is no longer calling for mass deportations. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR & TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump as he expressed in one of his interviews recently would find it's very, very difficult to throw out a family that's been here for, you know, 15 years and they have three children, two of whom are citizens, and that is not the kind of America he wants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now to discuss that, Jacob Monty, an immigration attorney who just resigned from Trump's Hispanic Advisory Council after Trump's immigration speech last week.
Mr. Monty, thank you for joining us.
When you quit, you said Donald Trump was using you as props. You said, very interestingly last week, that what you heard in Donald Trump's speech, in your words, was not realistic and not compassionate. If you listen to Rudy Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani's saying that Donald Trump is being compassionate. Do you believe him?
JACOB MONTY, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY & FORMER MEMBER, TRUMP HISPANIC ADVISORY COUNCIL: I also said it wasn't Republican. It didn't recognize that these people are working.
Look, read the transcript. Too bad Rudy Giuliani isn't our candidate because we would win. I've supported Rudy Giuliani. He understands you've got to protect the border but he understands you can't throw out the bus boys, the bakers and the health care workers that are doing jobs that are needed here in America. Too bad Rudy Giuliani's not leading this party. We would win. Instead, we got Donald Trump, and he could have articulated a plan. They promised a plan. Instead, we got populist rhetoric drafted by Senator Sessions and Steven Miller. And, look, we're not running for an Alabama primary. That's over. We're trying to win this election. He betrayed Republican values and gave a terrible speech. Again, read the transcript.
BERMAN: So what Donald Trump now says and what Rudy Giuliani says and his campaign now says is that when he said, after the criminals are gone, after we handle things like that, then we'll readdress the people who are still here. What Trump is now saying is that I'm really saying is I'm not going to try to deport necessarily millions and millions of people. If that is his position -- I understand you may not have heard that, and a lot of people listening to the speech didn't hear that either. But if that is his position now, could you get behind that?
MONTY: Look, this man deserved a lot of credit for being a straight talker. Now he wants us to assume he didn't mean what he said in Phoenix? Come on. I mean, I think Hillary Clinton knew what "C" meant on those transcripts. I think Donald Trump knew what he said in Phoenix. Words matter. Tone matters. This guy could have been a contender. And he's hijacked our party and we're left with Hillary Clinton, thank you very much. I mean, it's a disgrace.
BOLDUAN: But what speech then did Rudy Giuliani hear? As you're saying, you wish Giuliani was the top of the ticket because you like what you hear from Giuliani. But Rudy Giuliani, I hear you saying, didn't hear the same thing you heard.
[11:35:14] MONTY: Well, yeah, well, let's -- I mean, again, let's look at the transcript. At the beginning, he says we're going to have fun if Phoenix. Come on. We're talking about people's lives. This isn't a fun thing. This isn't a rally. I mean, at the beginning of the speech -- and I've gone back and read it. The more you read, the worst it gets. We're going to have fun in Phoenix? That's the message he sends?
MONTY: Look, I don't know. Thankfully, I guess they're there, they're heroes. Maybe they're trying to bring some sense to this campaign. You need to get rid of the nativists advising him. Send Sessions back to Alabama, send Mr. Miller back to Alabama, too. We're talking about a national campaign here that was winnable but it's not going to win -- you can't win it with statements like that. Words matter. Tone matters. I don't know. I respect Rudy Giuliani but, you know, words matter. Read the transcript. I don't see it.
BERMAN: Mr. Monty, what Donald Trump says is my primary focus isn't the 11 million undocumented workers now in this country. He says his focus is -- or what he says is the criminals. When you hear that, when you hear as much focus as he put on undocumented workers committing crimes, what did you hear?
MONEY: Well, he's creating this impression that most of the undocumented people are criminals. And that's not true. And he told me that when he met with us. He said, I know that most of the people are hard working. He said he knew that he had to come up with a way to deal with the 11 million. He was moving. But yet, again, depending on who he talks to, it appears, his position changes. Boy, I wish he would have talked to Rudy Giuliani before that speech in Phoenix. We would have ended up with a sensible plan that would have made the border safe and that would have been consistent with Republican values.
BOLDUAN: When you heard the Donald Trump supporter, the founder of the group Latinos for Trump, when he was on tv and he said there's a problem with illegal immigration, if Trump is not elected, there will be taco trucks on every corner, that's kind of the crux of what everyone is talking about in terms of that interview, what was your reaction when you heard that?
MONTY: Well, I was saddened by it. First off, Donald Trump had real Hispanic supporters. I've never heard of Marco Gutierrez. He was not in the meeting with Donald Trump. There are Hispanic supporters that were willing to give him a shot. And it's all -- it's all over now. I mean, you can't bring everyone together, tell them you're going to listen to them, and then not follow through. Words matter. Tone matters. This guy could have been a contender. They hijacked our party. Let's concentrate on keeping the Senate and the House. That's my message and that's my mission.
BERMAN: You say real Hispanic. But Marco Gutierrez is Hispanic. There's not dispute with that.
MONTY: Well, yeah, he's not a recognized leader though. I mean, I have 20-plus years of serving the community. I've been working with charter schools, educating immigrants on citizenship. I don't know who this fellow was. He was not part of the Hispanic Advisory Council. It was disgusting to see. I mean, he sounds really sick.
But the issue is Donald Trump had a chance to expand the Latinos, to get Latinos to give to the campaign. You know, in the Bush campaign, we had Latinos giving to the campaign, contributing to the campaign, all of that. You do see any of that right now.
BERMAN: Thanks, Jacob Monty.
MONTY: The Hispanics are heading for the hills because we don't got a real candidate here. Thank you.
BERMAN: Jacob Monty, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.
BOLDUAN: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right, a member of the Trump ticket, going to release his taxes soon. But not Donald Trump.
BOLDUAN: Donald Trump?
BERMAN: No, no. Mike Pence, his running mate. So what does Donald Trump think about his running mate releasing his taxes? And might he follow suit?
BOLDUAN: Plus, right now, the man who was once Hillary Clinton's opponent is out campaigning for her. Up next, why Bernie Sanders thinks some of the debate rules should change, and how that could make not a lot of people in the Hillary Clinton campaign happy when he said that. We'll talk about it.
[11:43:58] BOLDUAN: Mike Pence says he will release his this week. Donald Trump says he won't this week. Or at least, we have no idea when. We're talking about releasing tax returns of course.
BERMAN: This is what Donald Trump's running mate said over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, (R), INDIANA GOVERNOR & VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump and I are both going to release. I'll release mine in the next week. Donald Trump will be releasing his tax returns at the completion of an audit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, Donald Trump releasing his at the conclusion of an audit, which means maybe never. We simply don't know when.
Joining us, CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.
Gloria, it's really interesting Mike Pence is releasing his taxes because all it leads to is everyone saying, yeah, why haven't we seen Donald Trump's.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: He says Donald Trump's going to release his, but before the election, I don't think so. He says it's because he's being audited. It kind of highlights the fact that Donald Trump will now be the only person running for the high office -- because Kaine has released his, Pence is going to release his, Hillary has released hers -- and Donald Trump is the only candidate in 40 years who has not released his taxes. The only presidential nominee, I should say, who has not released his taxes. So I don't see how it helps Trump for Pence to kind of announce this at all.
BERMAN: At all?
[11:45:15] BORGER: I mean, good for him for releasing it but --
BOLDUAN: It just highlights that juxtaposition.
BOLDUAN: OK, let's talk about something we heard at the very top of the show. Hillary Clinton goes to the back of her plane to welcome the press. And then had this little -- had this little statement that she added at the very end in speaking to the press, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, I'll come back later.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: I'll come back later?
BORGER: As if that were a natural occurrence.
BOLDUAN: I'll come back later. I'll be coming through with beverage service.
BOLDUAN: But she said I'll come back and talk to you more formally but I wanted to welcome you on to the plane. At a news conference?
BORGER: Me thinks I hear a little bit of the fact that she's going to do an informal presser. Anything on an airplane -- and you guys know, you'll been on campaigns -- anything on the airplane that has got the noise in the background and the candidate comes back and answers questions and reporters hang out with their recording devices, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a way for her to say she is giving a press conference and I bet she'll do a few of them. They can limit the number of questions. The cameras aren't that great or steady. But it's a way for her to answer the charges that she hasn't appeared before the press, as a group, which is what Donald Trump is talking about every single day.
BERMAN: Look, it's not everything we want, not even close --
BORGER: No, but --
BERMAN: -- but it's more than what they've been given. If it happens today -- and I think she just told us it's going to.
BOLDUAN: It has to be something more than what she saw. That is more than what we've seen to this point. Does that make any sense?
BORGER: Yeah, they have to kind lance the boil here. They have to do it.
BORGER: It's not a pretty term.
(CROSSTALK) BORGER: But they have to -- they have to do it because it's all people have been talking about, and there's been a lot of news about Hillary Clinton and about her e-mails, et cetera, so she's got to talk about it.
BERMAN: Gloria, thank you very much.
BORGER: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: You'll see much more from Gloria today. We're looking forward to Gloria's special report, "All Business: The Essential Donald Trump," that is tonight after "Unfinished Business: The Essential Hillary Clinton," at 8:00 and 10:00 eastern, right here on CNN.
BERMAN: Also from us, chilling new details. Secret documents revealing ISIS terrorists plotted more attacks across Europe, hiding among citizens, and even Syrian refugees, to avoid being caught.
[11:51:33] BERMAN: We have breaking exclusive new details about the deadly Paris terror attacks last November. CNN getting thousands of pages of documents from the investigation. They offer new perspective on terrorist group operates in Europe and how deep the ISIS hooks are in the West.
BOLDUAN: In the pages, photos that the public has not seen, communications between ISIS attackers and their handlers in Syria, and the name of an ISIS operative who spent months on the lamb.
To discuss this, CNN terrorism analyst and editor-in-chief of the "CTC Sentinel," Paul Cruickshank, is joining us now.
Paul, you have been taking a look through a lot of this. What are these documents, it was 90,000 documents that have come out. What does it reveal about how ISIS is planning their attacks?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: It reveals they built up a significant terrorism infrastructure inside Syria to launch attacks against Europe. It reveals they set up an intricate logistical support system inside Europe to support those attacks, that they are communicating in real time using these encrypted apps with operatives in Europe as they make their way to launch these attacks, handling logistics, money transfers, all that kind of thing. This is terrorism by remote control. This is the ISIS senior operatives running the show from Syria when it comes to European attacks.
BERMAN: Paul, your reporting, you have discovered this Paris attack, as it was, last November, might have been smaller plot of a much bigger plot.
CRUICKSHANK: That's right. Senior European counterterrorism official telling me, yes, there are indications this was a slimmed-down version of a much larger plot, that they were also aiming at launching attacks in the Netherlands, other locations, including shopping areas and supermarkets in Paris. They had to scale down those plans, because some of these operatives did not manage to get into Europe, were held up or didn't get over there. These are very concerning new details, which comes at a time when the group is ratcheting up its attack planning against Europe. There are an astronomical number of Europeans who have become radicalized, tens of thousands, almost 10,000 that have traveled to Syria and Iraq to join groups like ISIS. They're starting to come back. European security services are very, very worried, indeed.
BOLDUAN: Absolutely, on high alert, especially when you describe it that way.
Paul, great to see you. Thank you so much.
BERMAN: Next up, he is the pastor in charge of firing up crowds at Donald Trump rallies. But he walked off a CNN interview after questions about whether he was lying about his background.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did you attend North Greenville University?
MARK BURNS, PASTOR: I did attend North Greenville University
GRIFFIN: Did you graduate from North Greenville University?
BURNS: No, I didn't complete the degree at North Greenville University.
BLACKWELL: Again, the bio on your website claims that you earned a Bachelor of Science degree. Did you make that claim?
[11:54:43] BURNS: Actually -- just --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Tonight, CNN presents two revealing documentaries.
BERMAN: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump like you have never seen them before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I accept your nomination.
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For the presidency of the United States.
ANNOUNCER: "The Essential Hillary Clinton."
CLINTON: We are stronger together in charting a course towards the future.
ANNOUNCER: "The Essential Donald Trump."
TRUMP: I love you and we will make America great again.
ANNOUNCER: All on one blockbuster night.
Clinton has been called the most famous person no one knows.
CHELSEA CLINTON, DAUGHTER OF HILLARY CLINTON: I never understand that. It is so clear to me who my mother is. She never forgets who she is fighting for. She is fighting first and foremost for children and for families.
ANNOUNCER: Trump has a passion for business and the spotlight.
DONALD TRUMP JR, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: No one is going to outwork him. No one has more energy to him.
IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: He always said to us, find what it is you're passionate about and pursue it with your full heart.
ANNOUNCER: Their stories from the people who know them best, CNN's special reports, Hillary Clinton at 8:00, Donald Trump at 10:00, on CNN, tonight.
BOLDUAN: That is tonight.
But for now, thank you so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.
BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" starts right now.
[12:00:13] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone.