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Clinton Meets with National Security Leaders; Obama Birthplace Issue. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 9, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Lessons that they've already learned and also in some ways that they're specifically trying to refine their efforts in Syria -

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

PLEITGEN: Through these exercises that we saw here today, Wolf.

BLITZER: Fred Pleitgen in Crimea, thanks for that report.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "The Situation Room." The news continues right now right here on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN on this Friday afternoon. Thank you so much for being with me.

Right now, with 60 days to go until Election Day, swing state polls tightening to razor-thin margins. Hillary Clinton, she's trying to flex her commander in chief muscle. She is meeting, as she has announced, with a group of former and current national security leaders, including these high-profile individuals appointed, by the way, by both parties. The main topic today, ISIS.

And as Secretary Clinton is focusing on taking down, defeating, destroying the terror group, her rival Donald Trump is getting a lot of flak for elevating a controversial world leader. I'm talking about the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin. Trump has praised Putin before, but this time the Republican nominee seemed to align, at least on certain issues, with Putin in an interview that aired on Russian television. Campaign representatives say that if they had known the Trump appearance would be seen on the Kremlin-backed network, that he would not have done the interview.

This is what Trump has said about whether he believes Russia launched a covert operation to disrupt the 2016 U.S. election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think it's probably likely. I think maybe - maybe the Democrats are putting that out. Who knows? But I think that it's - it's pretty unlikely. But, you know, who knows? I hope that if they are doing something, I hope that somebody's going to be able to find out so they can - they can end it, because that would not be appropriate at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Trump also said he had, quote, "absolutely no opinion" on the FBI investigating whether Russians hacked into Democratic Party e- mails. We will dive deeper - easy for me to say - dive deeper into his appearance on RTV.

But first to Hillary Clinton's national security meeting this afternoon. Let's go to CNN's senior political correspondent, Brianna Keilar.

So first on the meeting. Has it happened? What do we know?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It hasn't happened. We expect it's going to happen here shortly, Brooke. And there's a lot of big names. You pointed out some of them. And they're not all Democrats. This is a bipartisan group. You have Michael Chertoff, who was the Homeland Security secretary under George W. Bush. You have General David Petraeus, who, of course, ousted CIA director, who also was in charge at one point of forces in Afghanistan and well beyond. So these are very big names.

This is being billed as a working session, so they're trying to figure out solutions to problems. That's basically how this is being billed. The problem, of course, is ISIS and combating ISIS abroad, but also keeping Americans safe at home.

BALDWIN: What about, pivoting to Putin and Trump's embrace of Putin. How has the Clinton campaign responded to this?

KEILAR: Hillary Clinton tackled this yesterday. She said it was scary and unpatriotic. And then Tim Kaine sort of made the rounds on television today and he was saying that he was shocked. He found it shocking that Mike Pence - who, you know, frequently has broken with his presidential candidate, Donald Trump. Yet on this issue of Putin, he really backed him up.

So you had Tim Kaine taking aim at him for that. He said, how is it leadership if there's persecution of the LGBT community, if there is running the economy into the ground or invading countries. And it seems like he has some agreement from Republicans. Our Manu Raju did some of the footwork up on The Hill, quite a lot of it, to see what Republicans there thought of Donald Trump's assessment of Vladimir Putin. They're not on board. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: There are things that we should be aligned with him on, like the fight against terrorism. But, you know, he's been fairly ruthless.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Trump is making the mistake for the ages of thinking that Putin is a good leader and a constructive force. REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Vladimir Putin is an aggressor that

does not share our interests. And that is an adversarial stance and he is acting like an adversary.

QUESTION: Are you concerned, though, of Donald Trump praising Vladimir Putin?

RYAN: I made my clear - my points about Putin clear right there.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I did not observe what happened.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: But you've obviously been very critical of Putin.

MCCAIN: What's that?

RAJU: You've obviously been very critical of Putin.

MCCAIN: Of course I have been. He's a murderer and a thug.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Murderer and a thug. Elevator door. Boosh (ph).

KEILAR: That's right. And that's sort of the fun of going up on - I call it the zoo without the bars, right? You actually get access to all of these lawmakers.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KEILAR: But you'll notice, Brooke, especially with Paul Ryan, instead of really taking aim at Donald Trump, they take aim at Vladimir Putin. So they're making it clear they don't agree with Donald Trump, but they're not necessarily taking him head on.

[14:05:06] And it's important to note that all of this kind of blowing up for Donald Trump, which is not a good thing for him, comes on a day when North Korea has done a nuclear test launch, and that's not really good politically for Hillary Clinton or for President Obama because Republicans say, look, you didn't deal with this problem very well and yet you kind of have these competing story lines and it's very possible that this one with Putin and Trump gives Hillary Clinton some cover on this other issue.

BALDWIN: We will delve deeper into both of those.

Brianna Keilar, thank you, thank you, in Washington.

On Mike Pence - she mentioned Mike Pence here. A lot of people see the Indiana governor, the running mate of Mr. Trump, as perhaps more mainstream, less radical candidate than Trump himself. After all, Mike Pence is releasing his tax return. Trump, as we all know, says he won't release his until after the IRS audit is complete.

On the birther issue, though - and here Trump recently took a turn that we'll soon talk about. But Donald Trump for years fed in to this theory - this nonsense really - that President Obama was not born in the United States. And so Pence said recently, very plainly, quote, "I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii." But when it comes to Vladimir Putin, Pence is in, as Brianna just mentioned, lock-step with Trump's praise for the Russian president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think - I think it's inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country. And that's going to change the day that Donald Trump becomes president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Stephen Cohen, NYU professor emeritus of Russian studies, and the author of "The Man Without a Face: The Unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin," Masha Gessen, who is also an activist noted for her opposition to Putin, she helping found the Pink Triangle Campaign. And she says she was at one time, quote, "probably the only publicly out gay person in all of Russia."

So thank you both for taking the time today.

And, Masha, I just really want to begin with you as you are extraordinarily critical of President Putin on multiple fronts. You were born in Russia. How do you feel about Donald Trump's embrace of Putin?

MASHA GESSEN, AUTHOR, "THE MAN WITHOUT A FACE: THE UNLIKELY RISE OF VLADIMIR PUTIN": I think it's very telling, especially this phrase that he said the day before yesterday, that - when he said that he has been a stronger leader in Russia, which we now saw Mike Pence has repeated. What kind of leader has Putin been? And Putin has been a leader who puts his opposition in jail, who murders his opponents. At this point, this has been proven without a - beyond any doubt by a British court. Who monopolizes the media. Who monopolizes the elections and basically destroys the electoral process. Who subjugates the courts to the executive branch. And those are all the different ways in which he has secured this popularity that Donald Trump was so envious of, which is 82 percent popularity, which Trump referred to. That's the only way to get that kind of numbers. In democratic countries, leaders don't have those kinds of numbers. You need to try - to start building an authoritarian society -

BALDWIN: But despite - just so I'm clear, Masha, I mean despite everything you just outlined, you agree there is no evidence of any sort of deep, dark, you know, friendship/relationship between Trump and Putin, correct?

GESSEN: That's correct.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GESSEN: There's no - this idea that Trump is a Putin agent is a red herring. BALDWIN: OK. And then, professor, how do you feel about what Trump has

said and how Pence has agreed?

STEPHEN COHEN, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF RUSSIAN STUDIES, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: I feel very differently about everything that's been said. And I am not the author of the book, "The Man Without a Face," that's Masha Gessen's book.

BALDWIN: Oh, our apologies.

COHEN: I think what we're witnessing here is the greatest American national security threat, at least since the Cuban missile crisis, and a grave crisis of American democracy because that threat is not being discussed. We are in a new cold war with Russia. It is much more dangerous than the 40-year cold war. There are three places at which we could be in military conflict with Russia at any moment, all the way from the Baltics and Ukraine to Syria. Trump apparently - and I should say I'm not a supporter of Trump or of Clinton. Trump seems to want what we used to call detent. He wants to ratchet down conflict and replace it with cooperation, first and foremost against the Islamic State in Syria. Every time he opens his mouth and says something about cooperation, he is denounced as a Putin puppet or a Kremlin client. It is not true. What we need, and especially in a presidential year, and what we had in previous years, is a full debate about American policy toward Russia, whether it has been wise or unwise, because we are in very grave danger.

[14:10:01] BALDWIN: But the fact that he said the other night at the forum that he believes, in mentioning the Putin approval numbers, that Putin is a better leader than the president of the United States. Hillary Clinton said that was unpatriotic. Would you agree with Hillary Clinton or no?

COHEN: You know what, I'm a sports addict.

BALDWIN: OK.

COHEN: And that's like asking me if the world's greatest basketball player is a better athlete than the world's greatest baseball player. I mean Putin obviously operates in a non-democratic system. He has much more freedom of power, though he is not a dictator and he is not an autocrat, but he is the decider. The question is whether he's used his power wisely. And the question you would ask about President Obama, has he used his more limited power wisely? That's a debate we could have. You don't have time. Historians will debate it.

But I will say this, and it's extremely important. Masha Gessen has absolutely no evidence, nor does anyone else, that Putin has killed any non-combat any time in his life, journalist or opponents. The trial in London was a farce sponsored by Russian oligarchs who hate Putin. Nobody serious takes that - takes - nobody who studied that takes that seriously.

Let me mention one other thing because you mentioned it. I think it was Representative Ryan who said something that is absolutely shocking. He said that we share no interest at all with Putin's Russia. No American president ever said that about the Soviet Union. Eisenhower said we had vital common interests. Kennedy said it. Nixon said it. And Reagan, in the end, acted on it, the idea of common interests with Soviet Leader Gorbachev to the point where they thought they ended the Cold War. Does that mean that we don't have a common interest in preventing nuclear war, nuclear proliferation, terrorism and dozens of other existential threats in the world? I was shocked when the speaker of the House said that and I wonder what's happened to American politics.

BALDWIN: OK. Masha, care to respond?

GESSEN: Yes. I don't think it's a question of whether the United States and Russia have common interests. Obviously there - it's in our common interests to fight terrorism. It is in our common interests to survive. These are two nuclear powers, one of which is already headed by a mentally unable aggressive saber rattling leader and the other one might be headed by one if Donald Trump is elected. So we have a common interest in survival.

The question is, is Vladimir Putin the kind of president, the kind of person who can be a partner in pursuing those common interests. And the answer is an unequivocal no simply because Putin has been a bad faith partner in every negotiation in which he has ever participated with the United States and with other countries.

COHEN: But this is not true. We wouldn't have the Iranian nuclear deal if Putin hadn't guaranteed it. We wouldn't have had the destruction of serious chemical weapons if Putin had not guaranteed that deal. This is simply not the historical record. This is a kind of discussion of personality politics, not national security politics.

GESSEN: I think -

BALDWIN: How - just quickly - just quickly - let me - let me -

GESSEN: I think the people of Syria might beg to differ.

BALDWIN: Just, Masha, on how Russia and Putin, as the professor pointed out, we're hearing, you know, the speaker of the House weighing in, obviously one of the Republican nominees for president. Hearing talk about Putin, how do you think that is falling among Russians and at the Kremlin?

GESSEN: Well, the Kremlin would certainly much prefer to see Donald Trump be elected president than Hillary Clinton. The biggest reason for that is not so much that Putin likes Trump. He doesn't seem to have any particular affection for him, contrary to what Donald Trump says. The reason for that is that Vladimir Putin hates Hillary Clinton. He viscerally hates her. He has accused her of personally having organized and funded the anti-Putin protests in 2011-2012. He can't conceive of having to deal with her as the president of the United States, especially also because she is a woman. So he would much rather deal with Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: OK. Stephen Cohen, thank you, Masha Gessen. And, again, my apologies, Masha Gessen, the author of "The Man Without A Face: The Unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin." Thank you to both of you very much.

GESSEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

The former mayor of New York and advisor, friend of Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, he says birther? What birther? Trump denounced that a long time ago. He did? That's news to us. Hear what the campaign is now saying about that.

Also ahead, Senator Elizabeth Warren campaigning for Hillary Clinton as more stars get ready to hit the campaign trail. We'll take you there live.

And global outrage after North Korea says it just carried out its bigger nuclear test yet. Now President Obama saying there will be serious consequences.

You're watching CNN.

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[14:18:59] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You know, one of the loudest voices out and about campaigning for Donald Trump is making a surprise revelation. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani says Trump is not a birther and doesn't believe President Obama was born outside the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know whether you believe that your candidate for president believes he would succeed -

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A legitimate president or not.

GIULIANI: He believes -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he believe he would succeed a legitimate president?

GIULIANI: Donald Trump believes now that he was born in the United States. But that issue was raised originally -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When's he going to say it?

GIULIANI: That issue was raised originally by Hillary Clinton's campaign (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When is he going to say that this president is legitimate? This is a fundamental question, Mr. Mayor. Is the president of the United States legitimate or not?

GIULIANI: He believes that he -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe it? If you believe it, why doesn't your candidate state it?

GIULIANI: I believe it. He believes it. We all believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So if Trump does indeed believe President Obama was born in the U.S., he really hasn't said it himself. Here's a look back at how Trump has propelled this conspiracy over the last five years.

[14:20:01] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Why - look, she's smiling. Why doesn't he show his birth certificate? And you know what, I wish he would because I think it's a terrible pall that's hanging over him.

Barack Obama should end this and he should provide the public with a birth certificate. And if he doesn't do it, he's doing a tremendous disservice to the public.

Let's see - what, you know, perhaps it's going to say Hawaii. Perhaps it's going to say Kenya.

You know who questioned his birth certificate? One of the first? Hillary Clinton.

There's something going on. Look, there's something going on. And the words are not often OK, by the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean, there's something going on?

TRUMP: There's - there's just bad feeling. And a lot of bad feeling about him.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: So you think your birther position has hurt you among African-Americans?

TRUMP: I don't know. I have no idea. I don't even talk about it anymore, Bill, because, you know, I just don't bother talking about it.

O'REILLY: No, I know, but it's there. It's on the record.

TRUMP: But, I don't know. I guess - I guess with maybe some. I don't know why. I mean I don't - really don't know why. But I don't think - very few people - you're the first one that's brought that up in a while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin, who is also an Iraq War veteran, and CNN political commentator Peter Beinart.

So, gentlemen, welcome. And, congressman, thank you so much for your service to this country. Let me - let me begin with you there on Capitol Hill. Why doesn't Trump then, according to Rudy Giuliani, come out and just say, I was wrong, the president was born in the U.S., done?

REP. LEE ZELDIN (R), NEW YORK: Well, I certainly can't try to speak for him. If we're talking about it now, it's a - I guess a highlight of why it should just be addressed so you can move on to more important issues. So I can't really speak for him on that but if his -

BALDWIN: Would you like for him to put this to bed and come out publicly, get it over with so we can all move on?

ZELDIN: Yes, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Ys.

ZELDIN: If - if that's true, then that gets rid of the distraction for him and he can focus on more important issues.

BALDWIN: Peter, what do you think?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He absolutely should. I mean let's put this in context, right? This was part of a larger effort by Donald Trump to impugn Barack Obama in a way that never would have happened with a white president. Donald Trump also said that Barack Obama, he wanted to see Barack Obama's transcript because he wanted to know whether Barack Obama really deserved to get into college. And he flogged this for a long period of time. He's part of the reason that so many Republicans to this day don't believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States, don't - think that he's a Muslim and think that he's an legitimate president, which has done so much damage to our politics.

BALDWIN: Do you think, congressman, that this is race related, as in, you know, African-Americans specifically when you look at how many or how few are supporting him?

ZELDIN: Are you asking as far as why Trump has believed - go ahead.

BALDWIN: The - the - yes, the birther issue. I mean, you know, you talk to a lot of African-American voters and one of the reasons ahead of time they have said they're not voting for him is because of how strongly he came out on this nonsense years ago.

ZELDIN: Well, you know, and, again, I mean, I - first off, I don't believe that it's a race issue as to why he took the position that he did. But if he would like to make that outreach to the African- American community over the course of the next couple months and beyond, again, in order to talk about economy and quality of life and educational opportunities, to get in to all that other substance, you need to eliminate these distractions along the way in order to move on to the more important stuff.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about also today, congressman, just why a number of your Republican colleagues are sort of running away from - from my colleagues, from reporters, because they're being asked about Trump's praise of Vladimir Putin. Where do you stand on that?

ZELDIN: Well, I think that as far as his remarks go for - towards Putin, he would need to clarify that if he believes that Putin's being a good leader, to a good leader for his own country, and not in any way showing characters - character traits that he would want to emulate here at home. You know, I think that as far as the Russian people go, for many of the Russians, they may look to their leader as a good leader for them. But for here at home in the United States, the fact is that Russia's involvement in Syria and Iran, not just - you know, in the Ukraine and elsewhere causes great concern. So they are certainly not acting as (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: So you disagree with the phrase - you disagree with his sort of proverbial embrace of Putin?

ZELDIN: Well, I think that the - the only way that there could potentially be any agreement is if there was any type of clarification provided that we're talking about his leadership for his own country. And, you know, I don't know if - you know, I don't - I can't speak for the context that he's been saying it, but as far as leadership traits for his own country, it might be working for Russians, but these aren't character traits that work for the United States or the free world.

BALDWIN: Well, he started saying this at the forum the other night and he went on to say, and, Peter, I'm going to ask you about this, you know, he went on to say, well, I think he's - he being Putin - is a better leader than the president of the United States. Hillary Clinton came out the next day in front of her plane, you know, in that news conference and said, you know what, that is unpatriotic to say that. Do you agree, Peter?

[14:25:15] BEINART: Putting aside whether it's unpatriotic, Vladimir Putin is a man who destroyed Russian democracy. He's taken what was a fledgling, fragile, failing democracy and turned it into an authoritarian state. And it's not a surprise that Donald Trump admires that because Donald Trump has many of the hallmarks of an authoritarian himself. He's attacked a sitting federal judge. He's banned reporters numerous times from entering into his rallies. He said there should be - he's called for changing the laws to make it much harder for journalists to operate. He's threatened "The Washington Post." He's threaten other media outlets. He's suggested that our military should torture. So it's hardly surprising that Donald Trump would admire an authoritarian. He has authoritarian tendencies himself.

BALDWIN: Congressman, you want to respond to that?

ZELDIN: Well, I also - I don't think that, you know, Trump is necessarily comparing Putin with admiration that he has towards our own president. You know, this is coming from the context as you deal with a lot of important national security issues in order to take - in order to ensure our country is safe, secure and free, to strengthen our relations with our allies, treat our enemies as our enemies. He believes that we here at home can be doing a lot more as far as strength of leadership and consistency in dealing with a lot of these challenges facing our country, immigration policy, as well as it affects national security. So I think - I do look at the comparison in that context that he certainly has been a huge critic of our own president on substance and policy.

BALDWIN: OK. Congressman Lee Zeldin, thank you. Peter Beinart, thank you as well.

Coming up next here, President Obama calling it a grave threat as North Korea claims it has just conducted its most powerful nuclear test yet. The question now, will the next warhead be mounted on a missile.

Also ahead, first on CNN, new intelligence in Europe indicates as many as 40 suspected ISIS terrorists linked to the Paris attacks from last fall are still on the run. Details on the hunt to find them.

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