Return to Transcripts main page


Clinton Gives New Medical Details; Trump Shares Medical Details With Dr. Oz (Really); New National Poll: Presidential Race Tightening; Pastor Interrupts Trump's Speech In Flint; Powell Unloads On Trump, Clinton In Leaked Emails. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired September 14, 2016 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:10] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. John Berman here, in for Anderson.

Donald Trump just wrapped up a rally in Ohio, an event that was relatively uneventful compared to the rest of his day. He did take a shot at Hillary Clinton but it paled in comparison to something that happened earlier.

Mr. Trump revealed what he claimed were the results of a recent physical before a studio audience on "The Dr. Oz Show", complete with talk show looks and shock of audience participations.

Later, a clip of what you have to see for yourself and try to remember, this is not a reality show but a real life presidential election. It is fair to say, when it comes to accepted norms of transparency in presidential elections, we are in Kansas anymore. Oz pun intended.

Not in Kansas but in several key states today, there are polls showing Trump leading and a new national poll that shows clear Trump-ward trends. We'll break down those numbers in a bit.

But we begin with other numbers, triglycerides and such that Hillary Clinton's campaign is just released. There's been questions about Clinton's health after what looked like a near collapse and after what we learned she was diagnosed with pneumonia. And campaign put out more of her medical records just a short time ago.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta will join in a moment with more on what the records show. First, the latest from CNN Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Jeff, these medical records out today. Why is she releasing them now?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this whole pneumonia episode has upended her entire schedule this week. She intended to start giving a series of speeches. She's instead been home in Chappaqua. They were trying to change the subject, first and foremost, here, to show that she in fact not as sick as some of her detractors would like, those conspiracy theories we've heard so much about. They wanted to get ahead of those because her health has suddenly become front and center, central, a genuine issue in this campaign.

So, they wanted to: A, reassure her supporters that she is physically up for the job, and, B, just, you know, move on so she can get on the plane tomorrow when she flies to North Carolina to a key battleground state here with hopefully in her view, this behind her. But we'll see if that actually happens.

BERMAN: Talk to me about the fact that it happened after Donald Trump taped the Dr. Oz show but before we get the full Trump release if there is one.

ZELENY: They wanted to seize on that moment -- they meaning the Clinton campaign in Brooklyn. They have had an uneasy week. I would say the most unusual week of this entire campaign. And they were eager to show that she's being more transparent than him.

We can measure this campaign in metrics, but this week, it seems to be the war of who's being more transparent? It's a low bar, but the Clinton campaign definitely wins that score tonight because they have put out more information. Now, it's not as much as in some years past, particularly given the ages of these candidates. She's 68, to be 69 next month. He's 70 years old. That they are trying to show they are more transplant.

I'm told by a top advisor that tomorrow, she's going press that case as well. They are saying she's put out now 24 more different things than he has -- her cholesterol and other things. So, she's going to push the transparency argument tomorrow when she finally hits the campaign trail. We'll see if voters actually see her though as the most transparence candidate. It's one of her challenges.

BERMAN: All right. Jeff, stick around. I want to bring in CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, I know you got off the phone with Dr. Oz, Mehmet Oz, about the Donald Trump records. Hold on to that thought. Let's stick with Hillary Clinton for a moment because these new releases from Hillary Clinton. What did we learn?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We got some more details about what happened with this pneumonia diagnosis. I think that was the most pressing concern. On Friday, she got a CAT scan of her lungs in order to make that diagnosis. She started on antibiotic, but she had symptoms for quite some time, at least a week prior to that.

We also heard some other details in this. This is the second two-page letter. There was one this time last year in July. She had this -- she had a year procedure. She was having ear problems, for example, in the beginning of the year. She had to have a little operation to put a tube in her ears, for example, near the beginning of 2016.

She's also had a CAT scan of her brain, of her lungs and of her heart this year, for various reasons, and all those scans except for the one that showed pneumonia seemed to look okay. But those are the big outlines. BERMAN: The episode on Sunday, at the September 11th Memorial when

she appeared to nearly passed out or fall over -- are there any new details on that?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it was unclear exactly how this diagnosis of pneumonia had been made. We found out two days after the fact she had been diagnosed with that. So, we get -- w e understood she had been having a fever for some time and that she did get this CAT scan again of her lungs and she started on antibiotic for ten days.

She was told to rest. She was told to take it easy. Obviously, that was not information or advice she followed. But that was sort of the general gist of it.

They also think she's going respond well to the antibiotics.

[20:05:01] That was what the doctor wrote.

BERMAN: And specifically on Sunday, they stick to the story she overheated. You know, given the preexisting condition of pneumonia she had, it was ever heating that caused her, you know, to get light- headed and nearly fall over. What about the overall picture, Sanjay? Did we learn anything much deeper what didn't they provide that you want to see?

GUPTA: You know, John, it's an interesting thing. Part of reason I think you ask for medical records, anyone ask for medical records is because sometimes you don't know what you don't know. What we have here is a summary of someone's interpretation of all these medical records and medical tests who also happens to have somewhat of a collegial relationship in this case with the candidate.

So, it looks fine. It looks perfectly what it should look for someone of her age. There's nothing that's really a red flag other than those issues. We didn't really see anything more about the incident in 2012, which is probably the most significant incident. That's where she fainted and hit her head and had this blood clot in a blood vessel around the brain.

There was really more information about that. But we did hear she's had a CAT scan of her brain since then and that looked normal. So, those are sort of the big things. There was not a -- it was not a full release by any means.

BERMAN: All right. Sanjay, stick around.

I want to bring in the rest of our panel right now. Joining us now, CNN political analyst and "New York Times" political correspondent, Patrick Healy, chief political analyst Gloria Borger, again, senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny and CNN political analyst and "New York Times" national political reporter, Alex Burns. Also here, CNN political commenter and senior writer for "The Federalist", Mary Katharine Ham.

Gloria, I want to start with you here. And we're going resist the urge to talk about Donald Trump on "The Dr. Oz Show". We're going to talk that that after the break.

So, let's stick to Hillary Clinton for the moment right now. What do you think impact of what she released today, given that it was in the end, it was another two-page letter like the one we already had?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm with the doctor here. I think we don't know a lot more than we knew. And I think that for those who believe in conspiracy theories, they are still going to believe in conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton's health. And for those who say she's healthy, she's healthy.

I don't think -- we didn't go back to 2012, learn more about what actually happened to her when she had the big incident in the fall and the blood clot. So, I think that this will now become not so much an issue about health, but an issue about, who's more transparent? Who's telling the voters more about themselves?

And Hillary Clinton will make the case that she is because she has so far not only on health but also on her tax returns. And in will quickly move to the argument over what have you got to hide? If you've got nothing to hide, don't hide it on your taxes.

BERMAN: As of now, and again, it's just two page letter. But as of now, that two-page letter is in fact more than we know --


BORGER: It is the Mitt Romney, Barack Obama standard that we saw, which was getting a letter and telling you, I'm in good health and good shape. It is not the John McCain --

BERMAN: No, not the John McCain or Bob Dole standard --

BORGER: Exactly.

BERMAN: -- which is the model you would think for older candidates, both of which these candidates are.

Alex, I want to bring you in here and play you a clip of Donald Trump just a few minutes ago. He's at a rally in Canton, Ohio, and up until now, he sort of resisted the urge to talk about Hillary Clinton and her health since the episode on Sunday. At least talk about it on the stump of. But listen to what he said a few moments ago.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You think this is easy? Oh you think this is so easy. In this beautiful room that's 122 degrees.

It is hot. And it's always hot when I perform because the crowds are so big.

I don't know, folks. Do you think Hillary would be able to stand up here for an hour and do this? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so.


BERMAN: So is the sort of moratorium over. You know, we heard Trump official campaigns would get fired if they tweeted or ask anything about Hillary Clinton's health. He can't fire himself.

ALEX BURNS, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: No and this is extraordinarily risky territory for him and the campaign seemed to understand that up to this point.

John, talking to Trump campaign officials the last couple days, and briefing the campaign surrogates, they were talking to their outside supporters, they were just adamant that we are not going to touch this. But if there is one guy who has never demonstrated that kind of impulse control for more than a couple of hours at a time is their actual candidate.

There is real risk here particularly right before Hillary Clinton comes back out on the campaign trail tomorrow of looking like really ungracious and taunting a person who has been diagnosed with an actual illness and he has been wanting to make the case for a while and he has made the case for a while that he's the person of superior physical vigor. But there is really a fine line between that and denigrating an opponent physically, which is a line that in presidential politics, you typically just can't --

BERMAN: I want to ask you about the political risk.

But let me ask about medical risks with Sanjay here.

Hillary Clinton is going back to the trail tomorrow. She's got two events. She's speaking in North Carolina and in Washington D.C. tomorrow night. Based on what we know of her health, may a little more than we did a few hours ago.

[20:10:00] Is it smart for her to go back out so soon?

GUPTA: Well, you know, the doctor originally when she was diagnosed said you need a few days of rest. So, she was diagnosed with pneumonia last Friday. So, you talk about five days now, six days roughly.

The doctor has provided this note now. I think you've got to take the doctor at her word. She seems to say that she's fine. She's fine now and she's fine to be president. That was sort of the message that came from this note.

BERMAN: Jeff Zeleny, you're going to North Carolina with her. I imagine every reporter on that plane and every reporter in those stands in that event going to be watching her incredibly closely.

ZELENY: No doubt about it, and we've seen also what -- I mean, we've seen her issues out there. Over the Labor Day weekend, she was coughing uncontrollably. We actually learned something else today that she visited the doctor the Friday before that. So, two Fridays in a row she visited the doctor. So, I'm guessing her staff is going to have some hot tea at the ready so she doesn't have a coughing spell tomorrow. So, that, of course, would be sort of a horrible image here.

But there really -- you know, I wouldn't call tomorrow's schedule terribly aggressive. She has two events but still for someone who's been off the road, it is, you know, certainly a challenge for her. But that is, you know, kind of looming large here.

I've talked to a lot of advisors over the past couple days. One person told me today the top priority of the Clinton campaign is her health because the debate 12 days away from tonight.

BERMAN: Patrick, do you think on the issue of transparency. Jeff was talking about the time line there of when the test where and what we found out when. You know, I guess it's speculation, but have ever known that Hillary Clinton had pneumonia, had that episode not been on video on Sunday?

PATRICK HEALY, NEW YORK TIMES POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. In our reporting, my colleague Amy Chozick and I over the last 48 hours, there was no plan to put this out. There was the expectation that she was going to hunker down and sort of in her words sort of power through it. She saw this -- the letter that was released today sort of backed up that, this was a mild form of pneumonia, that this was something that she could handle.

And as Jeff noted she had had an exam a week earlier. And had been told, you know, get some rest. But she still went out and kept on, you know, a schedule. Not just campaigning but also getting ready for the debates. So I don't think there was any sort of plan around that.

I think what the Clinton campaign is also believing, and I think we're seeing this to be correct, is that voters aren't crying out right now for more medical records. Let's be honest about it. It is really kind of media story right now.

I -- in talking to voters, my colleagues and talking to voters, there has not been like a large cry saying, we need to know X, Y and Z before we make our decision if we are an undecided voter about these candidates. I think the debates are a lot more important. I think that's where the danger offer illness and the distraction as been.

The concern amongst Clinton allies is that she's not prepping enough the way she needs to be, which is not reading briefing books but getting comfortable.

MARY KATHARINE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But here's what voters do care about, is being told they are not seeing what they are seeing. And I think the Clintons' problem on this is twofold. One, that she's had some public or publicly known incidents that are fairly serious. A clot is serious. A brain injury, a concussion is serious. A collapse is serious to some extent.

People know about these things and the Clintons have the tendency to act like Clintons and look like they are hiding something. Frankly, they could not be hiding something. But they look like they are and that is their impulse.

So, I think that's a twofold problem in people's perception, and Trump on the other hand, even though he has not been super forthcoming doesn't have those same two problems on this issue. So, I think that's part of the problem.

BERMAN: We should be clear, this letter, this new two-page letter, you do not think, Mary Katharine, that this new information, limited as it is, will be enough to quiet the chatter, and/or conspiracy theories, and/or --

HAM: I think it will help a bit. I think she's really on the hot seat at this point at any public event, which is problematic because any sort of flinch at all is going to be seen as the bigger thing. And I think the Clinton's tendency will once again to be sort of secretive about it.

BERMAN: A cough is a low, low bar.

All right. We have much more to talk about ahead.

Next stop, Oz and more breaking news. New details from Sanjay on the medical information that Donald Trump shared today with Dr. Oz in front of a studio audience. It's pretty unorthodox first in campaign history.

Also breaking news in the race itself: we have new polling tonight that shows Donald Trump making gains and then some in key swing states. John King joins us to break it all down by the numbers.


[20:18:08] BERMAN: More breaking news tonight. Dr. Oz is sharing new details about his take of Donald Trump's health. You'll hear that in just a moment, in an election that has defied virtually every norm, the outrageous can start to seem ordinary.

So, let's be clear tonight. Donald Trump's latest stunt to use "The Dr. Oz Show", an alleged transparent window into his health, it is anything but ordinary. It was a reality show spectacle. Trump taped the episode today. It airs tomorrow.

And as if the show's script were written by the campaign itself, the episode is being teased as Trump springing a surprise on Oz. This is the clip they released.


TRUMP: Well, I have really no problem in doing it. I have it right here. I mean, should I do it? I don't care.


It is two letters. One is the report and the other is from Lenox Hill Hospital.

DR. MEHMET OZ, THE DR. OZ SHOW: May I see them?

TRUMP: Yes, sure.

OZ: So, these are the reports. This is from --

TRUMP: These were all the tests. They were just done last week.


BERMAN: It's unclear why Dr. Oz seemed so surprise. It's been reported for days Trump would reveal some of his information. It was only the hours just before taping that there was any doubt.

Why? Because the Trump campaign itself told reporters he would not release any information. But then surprise, so either it was a sham or they were unknowingly peddling wrong information.

Now, we can't tell from that short clip what information is actually in the two letters. The campaign spokeswoman described one letter as the one-page summary of Trump's physical exam.

Tonight, we are getting some more details from Dr. Oz himself about the letters. This is what he told "NBC Nightly News" in an interview that just aired.


OZ: I was surprised I looked at them and tried to process it pretty quickly. And I got to say as a doctor if he was my patient, they are good for a man of his age.


OZ: Details from a colonoscopy a few years back. He had a calcium scan of his heart that was done that looked good.

[20:20:04] He had results from chest x-rays and EKGs. Plus, the laboratory results from last week.

NBC NEWS REPORTER: There will be blowback because he did this on a television show. You are a doctor on TV. You're not his personal physician. You didn't grill him. You said it wasn't your role to ask him tough questions. You're not a journalist.

What will you say to critics?

OZ: I'm a doctor. I host a television show that talks about health. I did not run the test myself, but it was a comprehensive view of person that would be knowingly revealed from one doctor to another.


BERMAN: Yes, let's take just a moment to absorb. Trump's answer for calls for transparency about his medical history is to go on "The Dr. Oz Show" and reveal a summary of the physical performed by the same doctor who previously said Trump would be the healthiest president in history, and the only analysis we have on said medical history is from a doctor who's been called to testify before Congress to testify about his promotion of unproven weight loss products on his show.

We have a lot to discuss with the panel tonight.

Sanjay, let's start off with the fact, you just got off the phone with Dr. Oz, who told you what he was shown by Donald Trump. What do we know?

GUPTA: Well, Dr. Oz is a cardiothoracic surgeon. He's a heart surgeon. So, he sort of drill down a little bit on the heart stuff specifically. That's probably the biggest concern for most people is heart health.

He had a coronary calcium scan. I think you just heard that. He had EKGs. He also had an echocardiogram of his heart, talking about Donald Trump of course.

And, you know, I asked -- again, prefacing it by saying he's getting results from another doctor who's interpreting those results, who happens to also be friends with Donald Trump, talking about Dr. Bornstein. So, you've got to take it with that grain of salt.

But he said looking at those test result, he was not concerned. He thought they looked fine for someone of his age. And also his numbers, cholesterol numbers and all that. He's on a statin drug. But in summary, there wasn't a concern that Dr. Oz seemed to have about Mr. Trump's heart.

BERMAN: The amount of information Dr. Oz told you was provided. Compare that to the amount of information Hillary Clinton has --

GUPTA: Yes, it's a good point. Neither are enough probably.

But with Secretary Clinton's report, you did get a more detailed accounting not only of specific health concerns, but also the results of tests, CT Scan of the brain, CT Scan of the heart, the CT Scan of the lungs, the various medications that she's been on, and even things like she's on this blood thinner, looking at how they are establishing what blood thinner she should be on, what the result of those tests have been. So you did get a more complete picture.

Of course, we'll see the there is more on the show tomorrow. But certainly, right now, there is more information about Secretary Clinton than Mr. Trump.

BERMAN: There maybe want to show -- let's be clear. The Trump campaign could release even more information. They have speculated or said that they might do that, Gloria.

But about this Dr. Oz spectacle and again, you know, for people who weren't watching all day, it wasn't just he went on. It was then that we heard from people in the audience and it was only from people in the audience that were being told Donald Trump's weight and what drugs he was taking.

BORGER: He wanted to lose weight apparently.

BERMAN: Yes, it's just unusual.

BORGER: Unusual? Yes, I would say.


BERMAN: Well, the question is, is it unusual or unacceptable?

BORGER: I -- we have lived through this campaign where the unacceptable has become acceptable. I mean, this campaign is different from anything any of us have ever seen. This is very Trumpian to do this.

Donald Trump was the host of a reality TV show. And going on a reality TV show and reaching a wide audience that he wanted to reach, women viewers in particular, if you want to cut down the demographics of the audience, is not a dumb thing for Donald Trump to do if he wants to talk to women. And say, OK, I just happen to my health numbers here. Why don you look at them Dr. Oz and tell us all what you think?

I think from my perspective as a political journalist who's been around, like this is the strangest thing I've ever seen. But, but in this campaign and with this candidate, somehow, it all seems to be part of his mosaic.

BERMAN: Mary Katharine --


HEALY: -- been a tradition at least at the "New York Times" in which a medical doctor on our staff going back to the President Reagan interviewing candidates --

BORGER: Right.

HEALY: -- and writing, you know, stories that are 2,000, 2,500 words long, in-depth stories talking to the candidate and to his doctor, you know, trying to get at that.

Donald Trump, the sort of the classic showman, the reality TV entertainer who is all about -- you know, very much about crowd work and sort of knowing his audience and how to spin it. He goes on to Dr. Oz, a doctor, and he does this sort of feint, well should I show it? Do you want to see?

It's classic Trump, but it is, at the end of the day, John, he is talking to a doctor about his health. Hillary Clinton has sort of yet to do that in terms of a doctor report, or we'll see if she does.

[20:25:01] And, you know, we'll see tomorrow at least in terms of what details he gave.

BERMAN: No, I mean, it's a fair point. I mean, I saw promotions for it on "Extra" tonight. I've seen it everywhere. I got a real problem with how they jerked around the press over the course of the day, oh, he's not going to do it, when clearly he went in there with it in his pocket. He was going to do all along.

But, you know, is Trump winning the media game today?

HAM: Yes, I think he is. I stipulate that I'd like both of them to go full McCain and give us a bunch of information. But I think on this point, look, on the scale of ridiculous things to be upset about in 2016, this is very, very low down. I think the Obama had gone down and given a guest spot on "General Hospital" and given his stat (ph), everybody were like, oh my gosh, what an insightful and interesting innovative way to do this.

So, I think he's reaching a new audience. There are fewer questions about his health issues than there are about Clinton, so he has less risk in that area. I think if he turns mean on her, that's where the risk becomes bigger for him.

But I think this is frankly a win for him. And the jerking around of the press was also an issue with Hillary when they invaded the press as soon as she had this incident on Sunday. That was a real --

BERMAN: No question. They evaded the press. They escaped the pool, the press pool of which Donald Trump doesn't have one.

HAM: That's how he evades that.

BERMAN: Alex Burns, given the success Trump in Trump world of going on Dr. Oz, do we expect him to release tax returns on Fox Business sometime soon?

BURNS: I was trying to think what would be the equivalent financial planning show and Bill Mayes is no longer with us. So, I don't know that that --

BORGER: Jim Cramer maybe.


BORGER: "Mad Money".

BURNS: But look, I think that we're -- as a reporter we're in a difficult position here with these two candidates because you have one candidate who's been sort of partially and grudgingly forthcoming with a lot of information people want and another candidate who's been basically not forthcoming at all.

BERMAN: No taxes.

BURNS: No taxes. As of right now the only information about his health is this secondhand description from members of a studio audience on "The Dr. Oz Show". We may and we very likely will get some more information tomorrow, but this stacks up in a series of pledges that Trump has made to release information and not carried through with them. And I do think it is just a challenge to figure out, how can you be

equally tough on two candidates when you have such different sets of information to work with or no information at all?

BERMAN: And, Jeff, the Clinton campaign really wants to be in a transparency battle with Donald Trump, they think this is safe territory for them? You said they are going to press this point?

ZELENY: I think they are going to press it I'm told. And, look, at least on taxes they $ believe they are winning this war and they are accurately speaking here.

But I think what this has shown us over the past week is, one of these two people is going to be president of the United States. This offers a window, a look into the type of presidency they would offer.

And I think that for the Clinton side, we learned that she's still as insular as she ever has been and she relies on the advice of a couple of people -- again most of her staff new nothing to this. So, they couldn't react to it.

The Trump side, who knows how he would conduct foreign policy and what shows he would pick it? So, I think like this has been an interesting week in a long campaign sort of showing a window into, you know, how they would govern or how they would present themselves in the White House.

HAM: Just for quietly being on TV.


All right, guys. We're taking a quick break. We have lots more to talk about, including the latest polling that shows Trump gaining ground nationally and in some key battleground states leapfrogging Hillary Clinton in some cases. John King crunches the numbers next for us.

Also ahead, someone else's e-mails are in the news for a change. Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, he got hacked. In the e- mails, Powell calls Trump a national disgrace. That is just the beginning. What else he said about Trump and also about Hillary Clinton when 360 continues.




[20:32:32] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: More breaking news tonight. New polling from Quinnipiac University, shows Hillary Clinton with a razor thin lead over Donald Trump it is within the margin of error but he'd rather be ahead than behind. The poll would likely voters, now shows Clinton at 41 percent, and Trump at 39 percent. Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson has 13 percent and Jill Stein with the Green Party at 4.

Now, this is a national poll. Perhaps more importantly there are other new polls out day that show some movement in battleground states. CNN's "Inside Politics" anchor John King joins us to breakdown the numbers. And a lot of good news here for Donald Trump here, John.

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS ANCHOR: Without a doubt John. Let's take look. No Republican wins the presidency without Ohio, right. Look at our brand new CNN/ORC poll in Ohio. Donald Trump up 4 points among likely voters, 46 to 41, on a third party candidates is going to combine 10 but that's a lead for Donald Trump.

Again, in a critical battleground state. A close in 2012 but won twice by President Obama. Then Florida the biggest battleground prize, 29 electoral votes, that still on the map and again this was within the margin of error. So you can call it a statistical tie but clear momentum for Trump 47 to 44, 7 percent for the third party candidates combined.

There also a new poll in Nevada tonight, John is not a CNN poll, showing Donald Trump up two there, again statistically a tie but clearly in some of this key battleground states little bit of wind at Trump's back.

BERMAN: There is a movement, a trend if you will. Do we know exactly what's driving it?

KING: Let's take a look at some of the reasons. Number one, Donald Trump is doing better among independents. I want to show something else though. What we've seen in the past we've talked about this in Pennsylvania, for example, North Carolina for example. Hillary Clinton has been doing something rare for a Democrat. Winning among white college graduates.

But in Florida, Donald Trump back in the lead with those voters, also trouncing Hillary Clinton with white non college graduates. Look at that number, 64 to 25 among the white working class, this is significant. A Trump lead among white college graduates. Remember Florida and Ohio. Two of the more conservative battleground states. Very close in 2012. The president is under water in both this states. The president is above 50, Hillary Clinton does better.

When he's below 50 its close here, but when he's below 50 she struggles more. That's one factor. I also want to take you to Ohio where we have the same -- in Ohio John the same trouble with the college education gap, right. Look at this. Donald Trump winning among white college grads. Again we've not been seeing that in Pennsylvania, in North Carolina and trouncing Hillary Clinton again with the white working class by 30 points and this one jumped out at me.

Again, Ohio is a relatively conservative state among the battlegrounds, but Donald Trump winning by a big margin among men, that's very typically in presidential politics. The Republican candidate wins among men. But look at this, 44 for Clinton, 42 for women in Ohio among women.

[20:35:05] Forty-four for Clinton -- I mean 42 for Trump. President Obama and winning reelection four years ago, won by 9 points. Now the third party candidates -- excuse a numbers a little bit, but a 2 point gap among women for Clinton in Ohio, that's a problem.

BERMAN: All right. And how does this all effect if race to 270 in the electoral votes?

KING: So let's switch maps and look at. On one hand you could say not at all, right. Because CNN projects right now if the election were today that Hillary Clinton would win with 273 electoral votes, meaning all the states that are blue on the map here, dark blue solid Democrat, light blue links Democrats.

So let's say Donald Trump went on a roll. I mentioned that Nevada poll, let's say he won Nevada, our polling today shows him leading in Florida and leading in Ohio, right. That gets him in the game even if he won the other toss ups, right, North Carolina and Iowa, 265, 273.

So clearly Donald Trump has momentum in the battleground states John, but to win he's got turn one of these blues, Virginia, Pennsylvania, maybe it's Michigan, maybe it's Wisconsin. New Hampshire wouldn't be enough. He's got turn one of these blues to red. So what are we looking for? When you see battleground state polling from these states in the days ahead, look at the gender gap. Look at independents and look at that education gap, if Donald Trump can improve with white college educated voters in these state, we got a race.

BERMAN: More or less one state away ...

KING: Right.

BERMAN: ... as we sit here tonight. John King thanks so much.

Joining me now on the panel. CNN political commentator and former New York Council speaker, Christine Quinn, who supports Hillary Clinton. Former Bernie Sanders surrogate, John Tasini who now supports Hillary Clinton. CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN political commentators and Trump supporters, Kayleigh McEnany and Jeffey Lord.

Gloria Borger, this is what momentum looks like. This is what a trend looks like in polling right now.

BORGER: It is. And it seems to be slowly moving in Donald Trump's direction. I was looking at some of our internals on these battleground polls in Florida and Ohio. What struck me is Hillary Clinton's problem with younger voters. You know, all about the younger voters from Bernie Sanders who supported him. And I went back and looked at how President Obama did in Florida and Ohio.

In Florida Hillary Clinton has 46 percent of voters under 45. Barack Obama had 59 percent of those voters. In Ohio she's got 41 percent of those younger voters. Now she still beats Donald Trump. But what did Barack Obama have in Ohio? 57 percent.

So she still hasn't sort of coalesced young voters around her. It's not they love Donald Trump, but she needs more of them to go in her direction. And that's part of her problem this these battleground states.

BERMAN: So Jonathan Tasini, we're asking not only because you are a younger voter but also you are a Bernie Sanders, common ...


BERMAN: ... you know, Bernie Sanders, the prophet that he used, you know, what's missing here. Why isn't Hillary Clinton connecting with these younger voters, what can she do to reach them?

TASINI: Well I think that she is connecting with voters generally. And I think slight disagreement, it's a little bit of a margin, I agree with that. But look ...

BORGER: A lot of them margin.

TASINI: ... most young voters I think and I think the majority of the voters in general have made the decision that Donald Trump is not fit to be president of the United States and I think that's true certainly among young voters. And I just want to go to what John King said. Which I think is really critical.

To me this race is over. This is not a question of whether -- who's going who's win the presidency. It's whether Hillary Clinton is going to win by a small margin or whether we're going to essentially annihilate Donald Trump and make it clear that misogyny and racism and the kind of things that he's promoting are not accepted in America. With John said, he look at -- I've got this chart up, if yo got -- look at the 19 states that are clearly Democratic states. Then take the four other states, in Minnesota, Colorado, and Wisconsin. Those give as John correctly said 273 electoral votes. Even if Hillary lost. Nevada, Florida and Ohio.

BERMAN: Yeah, but even the problem.

TASINI: We would still win.

BERMAN: The problem ...

TASINI: And ...

BERMAN: Jonathan hang on, the problem, you know, and I'll let you jump in, our Jeffrey Lord because you are a student of history. You know, when things start trending they don't necessarily stop. And just the things on this board in New Hampshire could go and that would be 269. No I understand ...

TASINI: But they're strong -- she has strong leads that have not changed in the polling on all those states.

BERMAN: There are trends here. Correct? JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: There are trends here. You know, Richard Nixon used to have a theory of how to win elections which he called "peeking". That you don't peek too soon. That you build slowly. You get your momentum and then you peek the day of the election. And I think it's reasonable at this point to wonder if that's what we're not beginning to see here. I mean we don't know yet but one of the ways you can tell, the concern with Democrats to match up to John King's report is where was President Obama yesterday or the day before when he was out for Hillary Clinton?

BORGER: Pennsylvania.

LORD: He was in Philadelphia. Now, I can tell you as a Pennsylvanian, Philadelphia is a heavily Democrat city. She's not going lose Philadelphia. But the reason you send him there and the reason they send Elizabeth Warren there the week before is to increase the enthusiasm with the base to get them to really come out and that is her problem, and so that's where ...

[20:40:04] TASINI: But it's also about a Senate race in Pennsylvania. It's also when the president goes out and gives stump speech he's got a national audience. So he's not just speaking to Pennsylvania ...

BERMAN: All right hang on guys. We got a lot more to talk about. Coming up, we are -- next up how does one get Donald Trump to stop saying whatever he wants to whenever he wants to? A pastor in Flint, Michigan, succeeds where many have failed. We'll show this in just a moment.


BERMAN: It's sort of an awkward moment for Donald Trump today when he visited in a church in Flint, Michigan and started to attack Hillary Clinton in his speech. Watch this.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANIDATE: Hillary failed on the economy. Just like she failed on the foreign policy, everything she touch didn't work out, nothing.

Now Hillary Clinton ...

REV. FAITH GREEN TIMMONS, BETHEL UNITED METHODIST CHURCH: Mr. Trump I invited you hear to thank us for ...


TIMMONS: Not to give a political speech.

TRUMP: OK, that's good. And I'm going to back ...

OK, Flint's pain is a result of so many different failures and I must say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Right now, he's seating in here what was just there. The pastor said I invited you here to thank us for what we've done in Flint and not to gave political speech. That was what there.

[20:45:05] Back now with our panel. Kayleigh, that was pretty interesting. I mean, I don't know if Donald Trump wasn't told he wasn't supposed to talk politics, clearly his campaign was.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well this woman was also touting on Facebook that today was the day she was going to show Donald Trump. So I think that there might have been some other things we don't know about going on there. But Donald Trump did stay on message. He's stayed on message consistently. It's why he's leading in Florida, not in one poll, two polls, but the three latest polls, all reputable polls.

He's leading in Ohio by two poll bis four points. He's within five points in Pennsylvania and Michigan. This is momentum that could develop into a landslide. He's not just tightening the race. He's opening up gaps now. And I know Jonathan Tasini wants to dig in there ...


BERMANL Well -- hang on, hang on, hang on.

TASINI: Momentum into a landslide in it?


MCENANY: At first -- in attendance (ph), his leading double digits in Florida. Walter (ph) has a two point gender gap in Florida. Millennials -- Hillary Clinton is getting just half of what Barack Obama got. This is great news for Donald Trump. We are Trumps seeing over here and very excited and I suppose you are very worried despite finding one good piece of evidence for Hillary Clinton in the polls.

CHRISTINE QUINN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: But first of all, I have to say, the woman was a pastor. So I think we should speak of her with respect when she went up to see Mr. Trump to tell him that wasn't what he was there for. I didn't see anything on Facebook but she was in quite, I think it's important to know very respectful and dignified. But just so ...

BERMAN: And ...

MCENANY: He was respectful back.

BERMAN: He want to show it ...

QUINN: Oh you agree. I was going to say that, he responded. So I just don't think there is any reason to criticize him or her.

LORD: You wonder if can say that to President Obama.

QUINN: No back to -- well I don't think President Obama would have given a big speech there attacking Hillary Clinton so it's a new point. But on the issues of polls, it doesn't seem so news worth to me that Florida and Ohio are going back and forth and that they're closing and they're tight, and they're going up and down. What seems more news worthy -- great they're the hot swing states.

BORGER: Right.

QUINN: We're going to be having conversation each way. Not really news. What I think is also significant in these numbers is -- look at places like Georgia and Arizona. Where Secretary Clinton really shouldn't even been in the hunt and we're seeing real potential for her there. But she shouldn't even be on the board.


BORGER: Because after the convention she was up. She was up and most of these swing states. And now it is leveling off. And the thing about swing states is they tend to rise ...


BERMAN: You know, I -- you know what I notice, because I was here with you before talking about polls and they weren't so good for Donald Trump and you told me, "oh they won't really telling us where the election was going to say". And now when the polls are turning against maybe to Clinton, your telling it's not where the elections is going to go.

QUINN: I'm telling you things close and swing states by definition, swing around ...


TASINI: That's we're talking about Nevada, which is so close and I predict we're going win that because of the Latino turnout.

QUINN: I agree.

TASINI: Which I don't think the polls are measuring. The fact that you talk about Florida which is so close where Hillary Clinton has 50 office, 500 people on the ground and Donald Trump has no operation and in a state that is that close turnout is really important.

QUINN: And a ground game.

BERMAN: I want to get a question to Gloria here.

TASINI: I just want to show.

BERMAN: Gloria, you know, we're talking about the polls. And the fact it is close. I think everyone can agree it's close right now.


QUINN: No surprise. BERMAN: The fact that it is close. In fact that Hillary Clinton hasn't been on the trail the last few days, does this just make the stakes for the first debate on September 26th like astronomically high?

LORD: Yes.

BORGER: Yes. These debates the stakes are always astronomically high. As you know. But for this particular debate, given the fact that they are completely different kinds of people, preparing in completely different ways with amazing -- you know, with different kinds of campaigns. And this is going to be box office. That is all I can say.

BERMAN: And Gloria you get the last question here, because the one thing we also can agree on in this election is someone's going to lose, right. And tonight in just a few minutes you've got a whole special on candidates whose lose.

BORGER: What a good segue. Yes, I do. I've interviewed a handful of people who have made it to the nomination but didn't win. People like Mitt Romney, John McCain. Walter Mondale.

TASINI: Dukakis.

BORGER: Michael Dukakis. And I talk to them about what it's like to lose in this great public failure. I can't think of anything much like it in our life is failing on this kind of a public stage and how they dealt with it and how they came back with it and what it was like going through the campaign and losing.

BERMAN: Do not miss ...


BERMAN: ... one thing the scandal is all had in common by the way is they all like the polls is show them doing well and ...

BORGER: Right.

BERMAN: So watch that's coming up ...

BORGER: Thank you ....

BERMAN: ... within a few minutes, "Almost President: The Agony of Defeat."

Up next, for us. Colin Powell unplugged. The former secretary of state e-mail is hacked and his true feelings about both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are revealed. Here is the -- see, he's really an equal opportunity offender.

[20:49:58] That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BERMAN: We have new insight into what former secretary of state and four-star general Colin Powell thinks of both candidates courtesy of his hacked e-mail account.

Elise Labott reports.


COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I also want to see the debates, at least one debate.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's been pretty quiet during the presidential campaign but privately, former secretary of state Colin Powell is not holding back about the candidates. In e-mails hacked from his account and posted to the site DC Leaks, he describes Donald Trump as a, "National disgrace and international pariah". An aide to Powell confirmed to CNN that the e-mails are real.

The retired four star general and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff slams what he calls a racist crusade by Trump over President Obama's birth certificate, lampooning this prediction.

TRUMP: At the end of four years, I guarantee you that I will get over 95 percent of the African-American vote. I promise you.

LABOTT: A schizoid fantasy saying Trump takes us for idiots. But Powell is also lukewarm about Hillary Clinton writing a friend in 2015, "Everything Hillary Rodham Clinton touches, she kind of screws up with hubris. I would rather not have to vote for her. Although she's a friend I respect", Powell said, criticizing Clinton's unbridled ambition and calling her greedy and not transformational. He added an color insult about her marriage to Bill Clinton.

Powell also resented being dragged into the e-mail scandal after the FBI revealed citing that his advice as justification for her private server. Powell according to one e-mail to a friend, told Clinton staff three times not to try that gambit. And then through what he called a mini tantrum at a Hampton's party to get their attention.

[20:55:17] In an interview with CNN last month, Clinton was on damage control.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He was incredibly gracious and helpful after I was nominated and before I took the job.

LABOTT: But Powell dismissed the Republican fire storm against Clinton over the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, as a stupid a witch hunt. Though he didn't absolve her or Ambassador Chris Steven who was killed in the attack.

In an e-mail to his successor, Condolezza Rica, he writes, "Basic fault falls on a courageous ambassador, adding blame also rests on his leaders in Washington and yes, HRC. Rice responded, "Completely agree."

(END VIDEO CLIP) LABOTT: These leaks came from DC Leaks on the same day hacker about the (inaudible) of her 2.0, released more information from the Democratic National Committee. Experts appointed to Russian state elements as actors behind those DC Leaks but no word yet on any ties to the hacking of Powell's account. John?

BERMAN: All right. Elise Labott, thanks so much. We'll be right back.


[21:00:02] BERMAN: All right, thanks so much for watching. The CNN Special Report, really interesting, "ALMOST PRESIDENT: THE AGONY OF DEFEAT", starts now.