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Clinton Speaks At D.C. Event; Wash. Post: Trump Won't Say Obama Was Born In U.S.; Trump Gives Details On Economic Plan; Gov. John Kasich Speaks Out; CNN Poll: Presidential Race Tightening. Aired 9- 10p ET

Aired September 15, 2016 - 21:00   ET


[21:00:00] HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So here's the bottom line. Comprehensive immigration reform will not only be the right thing to do, but it will add $700 billion to our economy. And enable America to be what it's always been, a place where people from around the world can come to reunite with family, start new businesses, pursue their dreams, apply their talents to American growth and innovation.

Now, I know this has been a long road, and we wouldn't be where we are today without your persistence and the quiet courage of families in every state of our union. And we certainly wouldn't be here without the bravery of the young men and women who have risked their very place in the United States, by coming forward and fighting for their own future and the future of millions of others.

They helped change the conversation and when President Obama created DACA, it changed their lives. Right now, 750,000 undocumented young people in America are going to school, working, and planning for their future. They're dreamers in much more than name. I've met so many. I've listened to their stories. They've done everything we've asked of them and made our country stronger in return.

So when Donald Trump promises to rip that all away on day one, when he promises to round up and deport all of the 16 million people living and working among us, including American citizen children, who were born here to parents who are undocumented, these are the faces I see. I picture Astrid Silva, who I met in Las Vegas. Many of you know her story. She came to this country from Mexico at the age of four, with nothing but a doll, a cross, and the dress she was wearing. Now she's in her 20s, advocating for the rights of immigrants everywhere.

I picture a young man I never met, whose high school teacher wrote me a few months ago, to share his story. His teacher told me that this former student was funny, enthusiastic, and patriotic. He played the drums in the school marching band and after graduation in 2005, proudly enlisted in the U.S. Army. Before shipping off to Iraq, he stopped by the school, so everyone could see him in his new uniform. "He was," his teacher wrote, "as respectful and optimistic as any student who ever entered my classroom." He was also a dreamer. Brought here as an undocumented child. He loved America and hoped one day to earn his citizenship.

But in April 2007, while on a mission in Baghdad, he was killed by an improvised explosive device. He was just 19. The Army called him a hero and he was posthumously granted the American citizenship he'd always wanted.

All these years later, his teacher still treasures his memory. And this teacher wanted me to know, he wanted me to know that despite what Donald Trump may say, immigrants are not rapists and criminals.

The truth is, this young man may not have been born here, but he represented the best values of our country. We teach our children that America is one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look a certain way or worship a certain way, but for all.

Everywhere I go, people tell me how concerned they are by the extreme policies and divisive rhetoric they've heard from my opponent, from the racist lie about Mexican immigrants that launched his presidential campaign, to his racist attacks on a federal judge.

[21:05:12] And every time we think he's hit rock bottom, he sinks even lower. His latest target, a minister in Flint, Michigan, who respectfully asked him not to use her pulpit for political attacks. He called her a nervous mess. How insulting. How dead wrong. Reverend Faith Green Timmons is not a nervous mess. She's a rock for her community in trying times. And she deserves better and so does America.

And again today, he did it again. He was asked one more time, where was President Obama born? And he still wouldn't say Hawaii. He still wouldn't say America. This man wants to be our next president? When will he stop this ugliness, this bigotry?

Now, he's tried to reset himself and his campaign many times. This is the best he can do. This is who he is. And so we need to decide who we are. If we just sigh and shake our heads and accept this. Then, what does that tell our kids about who we are? We need to stand up and repudiate this divisive rhetoric. We need to stop him conclusively in November in an election that sends a message that even he can hear. We need to set the kind of example we want for ourselves and our children and our grandchildren.

Parents and teachers are already worried about what they're calling the Trump effect. Bullying and harassment are on the rise in our schools, especially targeting students of color, Muslims, and immigrants.

At a high school basket game in Indiana, white students held up Trump signs and taunted Latino players on the opposing team with chants of "Build the Wall" and "Speak English."

Donald Trump is running the most divisive campaigns of our lifetimes. His message is, you should be afraid. Afraid of people whose race or ethnicity is different, or whose religious faith is different, or who were born in a different country. There's no innuendo or dog whistles anymore, it's all right out there in the open now.

So we've got to come back twice as strong and twice as clear. Just this week, a mother in Florida wrote to me about her 11-year-old son, Francisco. He's proud to be American, Colombian, Ecuadorian, and Puerto Rican. As he calls it, a pot luck of Hispanic heritage. And Francisco has been following this election very closely, his mother told me. He wears his "Love Trump's hate" pin every day and refuses to take it off.

When his father warned him, that might make him a target for bullies, Francisco looked his father in the eye and said, "I was always told to stand up for myself and what I believe in and I believe Trump is wrong." And good for you, Francisco, that's what we have to do in this election. And that's what so many of you are doing already. Standing up to the bullying and bigotry, wherever it comes from.

Together, we must send this resounding message, and we need to inspire a level of turnout that will help us win up and down and the ticket. We've set an ambitious goal of registering and committing three million people to vote in this election, that would not have otherwise voted, and we can't do it without you.

Nearly half of Latinos in America are under 35 and we need you to show up and make your voices heard in this election.

[21:10:02] So we're going to keep asking for your help, keep hitting the campaign trail. Please, talk to your friends, your neighbors, your community. Everyone you see between now and November 8th. Tell them to go to or text "Join," J-O-I-N to 47246 to get involved.

This election is too important for anyone to sit on the sidelines, as we heard from Congresswoman Sanchez. So let's stand up to a future where we put families first, where we build bridges, not walls, and yes, together, we can prove, love Trump's hate.

Thank you all very much.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ACHOR: All right, Hillary Clinton just wrapping up a speech at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus event in Washington, D.C.

I want to get some immediate reaction from our panel. With me tonight, New Yorker Washington correspondent, Ryan Lizza, former New York City Council speaker, Christine Quinn, who supports Hillary Clinton, Democratic adviser, Paul Begala, who advises a Pro-Clinton Super PAC, Trump supporter and conservative columnist, Kayleigh McEnany, Trump supporter and political editor, Scottie Nell Hughes, and Mary Katherine Hahn, senior writer for the Federalist. I'm just John Berman filling in for Anderson.

Also, with us tonight inside the Convention Center in Washington, Democratic strategist and 2008 senior Clinton campaign adviser, Maria Cardona, monitoring the event for us, and in Miami, Trump campaign senior adviser, A.J. Delgado.

Paul, let me start with you and get your immediate reaction to this because this was a very different speech than the one we heard from Hillary Clinton earlier today. This was her first day back on the trail after three days off battling pneumonia. Earlier today, it was much more subdued, talking more about policy. Really didn't mention Donald Trump at all by name in that speech. Did a little bit but tonight, you know, directly at him.

PAUL BEGALA, PRO-HILLARY CLINTON SUPER PAC ADVISER: Yeah, boy, she went right at him, particularly on those issues of -- that matter to Latinos. This is a constituency where Trump is averaging 17 to 19 in the swing states in Univision poll, 17 to 19 percent. Mitt Romney got 27 and lost. Trump's got to get 40 to 50 of Latino votes.

So that seems like a high mountain and she knows that. But the question is turnout. Will they all turn out?

But as a campaign veteran -- can I just take one little insider thing, really important. She cited "The Washington Post" interview in which Mr. Trump, again, said he didn't believe -- he wouldn't say that the President was born in America.

BERMAN: Well, just hold that thought.

BEGALA: That shows a nimbleness in her campaign. The story was posted at 7:34.

BERMAN: Let's play that. Let's play the sound bite where Hillary Clinton talks about this in "The Washington Post" article. "The Washington Post" report Robert Costa asked Donald Trump, "Do you think that the President is born in the United States," Donald Trump will not answer the question, Hillary Clinton just talked about it.


CLINTON: Today, he did it again. He was asked one more time, where was President Obama born? And he still wouldn't say "Hawaii." He still wouldn't say "America." This man wants to be our next president? When will he stop this ugliness, this bigotry?


BERMAN: All right. A..J. Delgado, you're joining us right now. You are an adviser to the Trump campaign. Is this a question that Donald Trump should just say "Yes" to? Why won't he answer it?

A.J. DELGADO, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: You know, it's not worth discussing. This is just another media trick to try to bring up this issue again to deflect from Hillary Clinton's weaknesses and the disastrous week or couple of weeks she's been having.

Listen, I do give her credit, though, for addressing the Latino community. You have to have a lot of nerve to do that when some years ago, she's on tape saying that she is, "Adamantly opposed to illegal immigrants." Not to illegal immigration, to the immigrants themselves. So I find it funny she has the nerve to address us. I'll give her credit.

I'll also find it quite ironic that she brought up Cesar Chavez and Latino kids reading about him and all kids reading about him during Hispanic (inaudible). Because Cesar Chavez's policy, and he's a great Latino icon, and a legend among our community, was very much in line with Donald Trump's. Cesar Chavez used to patrol the border to keep illegal immigrants out. Why? Because he believed, like Donald Trump, in helping the Latino-Americans who are in the U.S., and not bringing in added competition for jobs and bringing down our wages.

BERMAN: Let me bring in Maria Cardona, who's in the room right now. I want to give you a chance to respond to what A.J. just said.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It's absolutely ridiculous. Hillary Clinton has had a four-decade relationship with the Hispanic community.

In the early '70s, she was out registering Latino voters in the Texas Valley, way before it was cool to register Latino voters. She has fought for our families, four our children, for immigrants, legal and undocumented ...

[21:14:59] DELGADO: name one way.

CARDONA: And in this room, she was with them. And she got a tremendous welcome, the way that she always has. She was here last year. She misses Latino leaders everywhere she goes and she was addressing 2,000 people in this room tonight, Anderson, that will spread out tomorrow, and talk to all of the key communities in Florida, in Nevada, in Colorado, in Arizona. I'm sorry, John, in Arizona, to make sure that they all understand that it is Hillary Clinton, her policies, her commitment to our community, and to Americans of all communities, the one that will raise them up, the one that will lift them up, instead of trying to divide them with fear and divisive rhetoric and hatred and vitriol and bigotry.

She talked about personal stories ...

BERMAN: Hang on one second, Maria.

CARDONA: ... of immigrants who are trying to make their life here ...

BERMAN: A.J., you're nodding your head. Your response.

DELGADO: You notice -- because you notice Maria didn't say a single thing, other than that, what was that, Maria, registering voters that she did decades ago? You can't name a single thing that Hillary Clinton has ever done for the Latino community. Whereas Donald Trump with the wall ...

CARDONA: Oh, I'll name them ...

DELGADO: Donald Trump with the wall itself is going to keep drugs and crime out of communities. It's going to keep jobs from coming into our communities and driving down our wages. Those wages are driven down $500 billion a year, because of illegal immigration. Check (inaudible), Harvard economist research on that.

It's Donald Trump who's helping the Latino community. Hillary Clinton's policies will not only harm the Latino community, but in decades of public service, she has not done one thing for us and your speech ...

BERMAN: Maria, I'll give you one more chance to respond. Maria, go ahead.

CARDONA: You know what? Yeah, absolutely. There's a reason why Hillary Clinton is in the high 70s of approval with Latinos and Donald Trump is ...

DELGADO: She's not. That's a lie.

CARDONA: And it's because ...

DELGADO: She's in the 50s.

CARDONA: It is because Hillary Clinton has fought for health care. She gave our kids health care. She fought for ObamaCare. She has fought for, to make sure that everybody in our community is lifted up with real jobs, with growing wages. She has fought for equality and education from the moment that she left law school. So you can say -- you can continue to lie, the way that your candidate says about what Hillary Clinton have said?

DELGADO: I get it. You have to speak in platitudes. I get it ...

CARDONA: But the fact of the matter is ...


BERMAN: All right, guys, one at a time. One at a time. You know what? Hang on. We're going to break that up for one second.

Christine Quinn, you ready to in?

CHRISTINE QUINN, FORMER NYC CITY COUNCIL SPEAKER: Yeah, the comments that Cesar Chavez and Donald Trump are similar? First of all, Cesar Chavez is spinning in his grave. But that's like saying Santa Claus is following the lead of the Grinch. I mean, they're just the most opposites of human being and vision out there.

And again, I just want to note that A.J. said the wall will prevent drugs and crime. Yet another Trump campaign attack on Mexicans, which builds on ...


QUINN: ... and further on -- I just want to say, earlier in the show, we talked about voters wanting change, which can mean, as we said, progressive change. And when Secretary Clinton says she's going to end the raids, end the roundups and close the detention centers, that is the progressive change that the Latino community has been dissatisfied with President Obama about.

BERMAN: Scottie, go ahead.

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Let's take down memory lane. Let's go back to 2000. President Bill Clinton, you know, it's interesting that Maria brought up the four decades. Hillary Clinton has been sitting here and trying to promote, "I'm fighting for Latino rights." I don't remember Hillary Clinton fighting for Elian Gonzalez as he was being ripped out of gun point, out of his hands after his mother died trying to get him to freedom from Cuba.

The only time we've ever seen those pictures has been under a Clinton administration and we heard silence out of Hillary Clinton as the first lady and fighting for that child's rights in as he was deported back to Cuba. And we have yet to hear her comments now about it.


QUINN: Let me give you an example, though ...

BEGALA: Paul will jump in here.

QUINN: Sure. Sorry.

BEGALA: I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps you're not going to persuade me, and I'm not going to persuade you. But to say that somehow Hillary has been bad on Latino issues, as A.J. just did, to suggest, I think, that Latino voters are not able to see their own self-interests. Univision just did a polling in three of these swing states. Hillary is leading 68 to 18 in Arizona, very Republican state. She's leading 65 to19 in Nevada, a swing state. And 62 to 17 in Colorado.

DELGADO: Why is she in the 50s in Florida? Why didn't you cite Florida?

BEGALA: She's ...

DELGADO: I notice you didn't cite Florida or nationally. Why is she in the 50s when Obama had 70 percent Latino support? Why wouldn't you address that?

BEGALA: I think you should continue -- I think, A.J. and her campaign should continue to do what they're doing, because they're going to set a record low for Latinos. I think she's right, all is well with Trump and Latinos. And I think he should continue his campaign, Hillary will continue hers.

[21:20:00] Latinos are going to vote in this election. They're likely to be a determining factor. And Trump has gone out of his way from his announcement speech to today to alienate Latinos and ...

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP'S SUPPORTER: This is so interesting to me, Paul, because A.J. just very skillfully ...

BERMAN: Kayleigh?

MCENANY: ... posed a question to the Clinton campaign, which is what has Hillary Clinton done for the Latino community?

QUINN: I'll give you an example. MCENANY: And the Clinton campaign hasn't answered. Instead, you default to attacking Donald Trump. You know what?

BEGALA: I'm not attacking Donald Trump. I'm citing polling data. Do you think voters are stupid?

MCENANY: OK. Well, let me cite a fact that Hillary Clinton brought up tonight that Latinos make up 17 percent of the nation, but we only have 2 percent of the wealth. Well, guess what? Her and her family have been in power for four decades. Obama continued her family's policies and yet Latinos are worse off four decades after Clinton/Obama rule and they were before it started.

So, AJ's question is a skillful one and the Clinton campaign is yet to answer ...

BERMAN: Christine, go ahead.


BERMAN: Hang on. A.J., A.J., hang on. Christine Quinn's going to answer ...

QUINN: I'll give you some very specific answers. After 9/11, one of the most ignored communities related to the impact of the work on the pile, were day laborers. The vast majority of whom at that time were Latinos and Hispanics in New York. And I saw Hillary Clinton on a regular basis standing with those workers, fighting for those workers, getting those workers to become part of the 9/11 health registry at Mt. Sinai, making sure they got included in health coverage. That's a tangible thing she did when she was a United States senator.

She has been a supporter of dreamers and DREAM Act legislation, which will help -- has helped make sure people could stay here and go to college.

Her work around getting child health care coverage when she was first lady was extraordinarily helpful to the Hispanic and Latino communities ...

MCENANY: None of those are for the Latino community specifically.

QUINN: Absolutely ...

MCENANY: By the way, I worked in immigration where I heard the stories that the Obama administration sending ICE. officers into people's homes, ripping children out of them, while he is letting 19,000 criminal and illegal immigrants back into society that ...

BERMAN: All right, quickly, last word.


BERMAN: A.J., hang on.

QUINN: First of all, you cannot say -- you cannot say that the child health coverage, and I would also add ObamaCare, hasn't significantly helped the Latino community. It has helped others, but there were clearly, clearly helped by that.

And I don't disagree with you, that the raids and the roundups and the splitting up of families and the detention centers ...


BERMAN: Hang on, hang on.

QUINN: ... have been outrageous and ...


QUINN: Wait, wait, wait. I have -- when I was an elected official, spoke out aggressively against them and panned (ph) legislation in New York to control ICE and the Secretary, talk about change. She said she's going to change what President Obama is doing. That is radically important change.

BERMAN: We are -- we're going to take a quick break, everyone. Thanks a lot. Stick around, though.

Donald Trump, he laid out his economic plan today. We'll have the latest on that, next.


[21:25:57] BERMAN: Busy day for Donald Trump. He wrapped up a speech in New Hampshire just a short time ago.

Earlier, he laid out his economic plan in a speech here in New York, pledging to create 25 million jobs over the next decade and offering his ideas about how he would do it.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In Hillary Clinton's America, we have surrendered our status as the world's great economy. And we have surrendered our middle class to the whims of foreign countries. We take care of them better than we take care of ourselves. Not one single idea she's got will create one net American job or create one new dollar of American wealth for our workers. The only thing she can offer is a welfare check. That's about it. Our plan will produce paychecks.


BERMAN: Trump vowed his proposal will boost the economy 4 percent a year. He also rolled out a kind of revised tax plan, a different one than he initially proposed several months ago. It's a pretty big overhaul with new tax rates and new levels for standard deductions.

Back now with Paul Begala, joining the conversation, CNN global economic analyst and "Time" assistant managing editor Rana Foroohar, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord, and economist and Trump policy adviser, Peter Navarro. Thank you one and all for being here.

Rana, I will start with you. We watched the speech together.


BERMAN: You know, an ambitious plan.


BERMAN: You know, 25 million new jobs. All while assuming 4 percent growth, an average of 4 percent growth over 10 years.


BERMAN: Tax cuts, no deficit impact.

FOROOHAR: Yeah, a magical thinking I think. You know, I mean, 4 percent growth is about double what we're at right now. And we're talking about tax cuts that are meant to spur that kind of growth. It's a dynamic tax plan, is what they call it.

But if you look back over the last 20 years, there's just not a lot of evidence to show that tax cuts have been creating that kind of growth. So if you look in 2001 and 2003, we had really broad-based tax cuts under George W. Bush. Those didn't jump-start growth. Pre-2000 -- sorry, after the financial crisis in 2008, Obama's tax cuts also didn't spur on growth.

So this idea that we can just cut taxes and that's going to magically create growth is just not holding water.

BERMAN: Peter Navarro?

PETER NAVARRO, ECONOMIST AND BUSINESS PROFESSOR, U.C. IRVINE: Yeah. That wasn't what the speech was about. That's just wrong. What we have here is ...

BERMAN: I'm sorry, the speech was about -- he said he's going to create 25 million jobs.

NAVARRO: Correct, yeah.

BERMAN: OK. All right.

NAVARRO: Let me just do the numbers for you. It's really interesting. If you go from 1947 to 2001, the economy grew at a real GDP rate of 3.5 percent. From 2002 to 2015, we dropped down to 1.5, essentially cutting it in half.

So what Mr. Trump's mission is, basically, is to get us back from that 2 percent, 1.8 percent to 3.5, and maybe 4. But in the speech, it was 3.5.

BERMAN: It was both.

NAVARRO: So what we've got to do is we got to pick up 1.5. Now, in terms of where we get that. The tax cuts are a small part of that. The other part of the plan has to do with overregulation, has to do with the trade deficit, which is a big drain on our GDP, and it has to do with the off-shoring of fixed non-residential investment, which counts towards the GDP.

And the analysis that we've done shows that you pick up these instant growth. For example, just solving the regulatory trade and energy issue gets us a point. When you dynamically score the tax cut plan, that gets us another half a point, and there we are.

And so what that does -- and let me just say one more thing, it's like one point. This is really important. One point of GDP growth is 1.2 additional jobs over of what you're doing, right? So if we go from 2 to 3.5 over a 10-year period, that's 18 million additional jobs.

[21:25:01] BERMAN: I understand, Peter, but the speech was largely -- he talked a lot about the tax cuts there. We all watched it together and yes, he did talk about other things, you bring up dynamic growth. That's double dipping, though. You're saying dynamic growth is going to help promote growth all at the same time. Well, at the same time, dynamic growth is ...

NAVARRO: Let me just break it down ...

BERMAN: No, no, no. Dynamic growth is where he gets to the idea that it's deficit neutral. So, you know, ...

NAVARRO: No, no, let me -- again, let's do the numbers here. Let's just do the numbers. The tax cuts themselves create a deficit.

BERMAN: 4.4 trillion.

NAVARRO: It's static, OK, which nobody believes in. It's about $2.5 trillion dynamic. OK. Take that. Now, what we do with the increment of growth, on the regulatory side, on the trade side, and on the energy side, is we show a net gain of about $2 trillion. OK.

FOROOHAR: No, if I can just ...

BERMAN: Go ahead, Rana.

FOROOHAR: Yeah, if I can just jump in. Whenever the projections get too complicated, I get worried because one thing we know is that economic projections are often wrong. What we can say is historically, these types of trickle-down plans have not worked real well over the last 20 years. We know that for a fact.

NAVARRO: Can I ask you a question?

FOROOHAR: Yeah, go ahead.

NAVARRO: OK. So, so we communicate, right? You're in a world thinking just about tax cuts, OK? Donald Trump's in a world where tax cuts are just a part of the problem. When I'm asking you, here's the question. If we are able to reduce the $2 trillion annual burden of regulation on this economy, would that increase growth? If ... FOROOHAR: I think ...

NAVARRO: If we were able ...


NAVARRO: ... to eliminate the 800 -- almost $800 billion deficit in goods, would that create an increment of growth and if we were able to lower our electricity?


NAVARRO: So the question is, what would that do in your world?

FOROOHAR: OK, let me say two things. First of all, the speech was mostly about tax cuts. But let me answer your question.

NAVARRO: It was not

FOROOHAR: I think that regulatory issues are a minority of how we're going to create growth in this country going forward. I think that small business regulation, yeah, it could be cleaned up a little bit, but that's not going to get you to 4 percent growth. I mean, you know, it's just false to think that. And the same time, putting out your debt ...

NAVARRO: It's a $2 billion on the American people. And if you cut that simply by 10 percent, what our simulations show is that we ...

FOROOHAR: Simulations, that's making me think about 2008. The models didn't work back then.

BERMAN: I want to bring Jeff Lord into this conversation because ...

JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Paul and I are letting the economists do it.

BEGALA: That's right.


BERMAN: I'm going to bring up the Reagan administration ...

LORD: Yeah.

BERMAN: ... because if I don't, you will.

LORD: That's right. That is correct. And I even have a surprise for you.

BERMAN: What you're going to say is that Ronald Reagan cut taxes and he created growth, right?

LORD: He created political growth from 1983 to 1990, according to the Joint Economic Committee of the House and Senate. A total growth of 35.7 percent ... BERMAN: But what happened to the deficit during that time?

LORD: And let me finish. And then, and then, when the Clinton administration came in, they had a total growth of 33.0 percent. In other words, it was very close. Which, of course, is what led Art Laffer, the founder of the supply-side economics or back to more classical economics to say, "Bill Clinton was one of the best conservative president in this country," and I agree.

BERMAN: But Paul, back to Ronald Reagan, he did absolutely, you know, cut taxes and there was growth there, but there was also a deficit there. Now, you can argue that it was worth it, but it was not deficit neutral. What Donald Trump is arguing today is that all of this is deficit neutral. And the math is very difficult, if not impossible to, you know, to connect.

LORD: Well, I mean, I will say this. I mean the Cold War is gone, I mean, and that was the big decision with Ronald Reagan. As you know, he said, his strategy was we win, they lose. OK, they're gone. Now, Donald Trump has got to face, as does whomever is president, has got to deal with ISIS and all of this sort of thing. But still and all, if you make the right cuts in the right places, you know, you can get this done over a period of time.

BERMAN: Paul Begala?

BEGALA: Well, politically, where it's a problem, is this. From the beginning of his campaign, from the beginning of life, Donald Trump has told us how rich he is. And I believe him. That's -- I mean, people quibble about whether it's $10 billion or $1 billion, but who the hell cares? He's a really, really rich guy. Voters know that he brags about it all the time. He is connected with voters on that notion that he is rich.

So when he proposes a tax plan that's tilted toward the rich, it's going to infuriate a lot of folks. For example, the specifics. He calls for a repeal of the estate tax, which only the very, very wealthiest, less than 1 percent of Americans pay, right? First 5 million, I think $5.4 million is exempt from taxes. So unless you're leaving your grandchildren or children more than $5 million bucks, you don't have to worry about the tax.

He eliminates that, because he has a vast fortune that he wants to leave to these very impressive children he has, I'm sure. But it benefits Trump and his family particularly.

Also, huge tax cuts, at least in the original plan. You can correct me if it's in this, for these pass-through entities, companies that are taxed at a different rate than the corporate rate, often a lower rate. He cuts it even lower for them.

[21:35:00] Guess what, according to the "Washington Post," Trump owns over 200 of these pass-through entities. This is designed for Trump, by Trump, to benefit Trump. I bet if we dig deep into it, we'll see tax cuts for tanning beds and hair spray. Because this is design for Donald Trump. BERMAN: All right, all right. You know what, guys, we've got take a quick break.

We have much more to discuss, coming up. Donald Trump lashing out at the Flint, Michigan pastor who interrupted his speech at her church. Hillary Clinton just weighed in on this as a short time ago, as well.


BERMAN: So Donald Trump criticizes a lot of people. His opponents, the media, people he perceives as haters and losers on Twitter. Now there is a new target, a pastor from Flint, Michigan, who interrupted Trump when he was speaking at her church.

At her speech in Washington tonight, Hillary Clinton says that pastor deserves better and so does America. We'll have Trump's comment today on the pastor in just a moment.

First, let's bring you up to speed on how this all started. This is what happened yesterday in Flint.


TRUMP: Hillary failed on the economy, just like she's failed on foreign policy. Everything she touched didn't work out. Nothing.

Now Hillary Clinton ...

[21:39:59] REV. FAITH GREEN TIMMONS, FLINT, MICHIGAN PASTOR: Excuse me, Mr. Trump, I invited you here to thank us for what we've done in Flint.

TRUMP: Oh, oh, oh, OK.

TIMMONS: Not give a political speech.

TRUMP: OK. That's good. Then I'm going to go back onto Flint.


BERMAN: Now, this morning, in an interview on Fox News, Donald Trump suggested Faith Green Timmons, the pastor of Bethel United Methodist Church who we just saw in that video had planned to disrupt his remarks, ahead of time. Listen to this.


TRUMP: When she got up to introduce me she was so nervous, she was shaking, and I said, "Wow, this is sort of strange." And then she came up. So she had that in mind, there's no question about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bother you? Does it bother you? It seems like it did.

TRUMP: No, it doesn't bother me. No, I mean, everyone plays their games, it doesn't bother me. I'll tell you what really made me feel good, the audience was saying, "Let him speak, let him speak."


BERMAN: Now, the poll reporter in the room at the time got that through NPR says Reverend Timmons did not appear nervous. He also says that no one said, "Let him speak," instead, he says hecklers started shouting at Trump and that's when Reverend Timmons spoke again, telling the crowd that Trump was, "A guest in my church and you will respect him."

Joining us now, CNN Political Commentator Van Jones, a former Obama Administration official, also Trump supporter Scottie Nell Hughes and Kayleigh McEnany are back with us, as is Clinton supporter Paul Begala.

Kayleigh, when we saw this yesterday, I think we all commented, it was an interesting exchange between the pastor and Donald Trump. And Donald Trump when she, you know, when she stopped him, he just said, "OK, you're right, you're right, you're right," and went back to his speech. He handled that moment graciously.

This morning, calling her nervous and saying she was playing games. Is this the type of comment, is this the type of attack that Kellyanne Conway is trying to keep him from doing?

MCENANY: No, because one of the things people love about Donald Trump is he's honest. And he says what's on his mind. And what he said today was truthful. Because when you look at the Reverend's Facebook the day before the event, you know what you find? You find, I have it here, "Today is our day. It's our chance to show Donald Trump he will not use us, we will educate him." This was on her Facebook. She had plan to setup Donald Trump. She deleted the Facebook post.

Now among this fire, she wants it to seem like she just, you know, intervened spontaneously, this wasn't pre-orchestrated, but it was, in fact, pre-orchestrated. And for Donald Trump to point that out, it was him being honest about what happened in the moment but he was gracious to her, despite her setting him up.

BERMAN: Well, he wasn't gracious today. But Van Jones, what's your take on the whole episode?

VAN JONES, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I see it differently. First of all, you know, it's not uncommon for people to say things like that, especially if you're in a poor community, any leader come say, "Hey, listen, we're going to tell them, we're not going to be used, we're going to make sure we get heard." But I think that my -- what I'm disturbed by is Donald Trump kind of rewriting the whole thing.

I thought the woman was very elegant. She didn't seem to be a nervous mess or whatever he called her. And she did not just jump on him. She said, "Hey, don't talk bad about Hillary Clinton. Let's stay on the issue." And then she defended him. I mean, if she was trying to set him up, as Kayleigh suggested, then when the crowd went for him, she would have egged him on. She defended him. So, I just don't, you know, listen, let's not read too much into people's social media feeds. I don't think he handled this properly. And I think that, you know, we should be worried about someone who can't seem to take any criticism without going back and reinventing it into some whole other fantasy.

BERMAN: Scottie, let's listen what Hillary Clinton had to say about this, because she made a point of bringing it up, not once, but twice. Let's listen.


CLINTON: My opponent is running a very different kind of campaign. His latest target is a pastor in Flint, Michigan, who respectfully asked him not to use her pulpit for political attacks. He called her a nervous mess. That's not only insulting, it's dead wrong.

Reverend Faith Green Timmons is not a nervous mess. She's a rock for her community in trying times. She deserves better than that. And Flint deserves better.


BERMAN: Again, Scottie, does this just get to the idea of campaign discipline? Does Donald Trump open himself up to criticism by doing what he did this morning?

HUGHES: Well, I think he handled it very classy last night. I think I wish he would have actually just stopped there and then we go into this one of the questioning. Obviously, Mr. Trump was read her tweet. He probably was also shown the picture of her arm and arm and hand in hand with Barack Obama that she took back this past June when Barack Obama was with her at an a event. And we don't know necessarily if he spoke at her church or not.

But this just brings the question. This is a woman who's obviously engaged in politics, she's engaged in what is going on, and I am all for that. Whether it's the Democrat or Republican, I love the idea of preaching from the pulpit and having these spiritual leaders lead their congregation in what they feel like might be right or wrong.

That being said, I think, once you open yourself up to this, you're also going to get the criticism, and many conservatives today felt like this was a trap for Donald Trump what he went into.

BERMAN: But he knew where he was going. It's not like someone forced him to go there, that he was going there under duress and no one told him. I would think, you know, who would be introducing him and they probably checked the social media feed. I mean, he did walk in there and do it. Did he not know any of this?

HUGHES: Well, he probably didn't know necessarily that it was Hillary Clinton, that she had taken a picture with Barack Obama or what her political standing was. He was going in to talk to the group. And this is -- I think this is a much ado about nothing. [21:45:07] Once again, this is going away from the policies that Mr. Trump wanted to talk about, why he was there in Flint, Michigan, the money that had not gone to help those people right there. And this has become the story that we're focusing on, mainly, I think, because the Hillary Clinton camp, this is what they want to talk about.

BERMAN: It is interesting, Paul, because Hillary Clinton brought it up not once, but twice today, largely using the same language. So you do get the sense that they've almost been waiting for this type of thing to pounce on.

BEGALA: Well, because it always happens with Donald Trump. This is a pattern. First of all, I actually don't fault him for trying to bring a little politics into the preaching. It's 54 days before the election, it happens all the time in hundreds of churches and politics often gets into the pulpits. Scottie's right. I'm not offended by that. And he took his shot, I don't blame him.

But the -- Reverend Timmons said, "Wait, no we don't want that here." And he did respond, very meekly, very uncharacteristically, very un- Trumpian, right? And I thought, wow, maybe the Thorazine is working, you know, maybe they've got him on good meds.

But, then classic Trump, when confronted, he backs down. And then the next morning, when Reverend Timmons is not around to defend herself, he prevaricates, he creates a scenario, which never happened, according to Scott Detrow, the NPR reporter who was in the room covering the event, saying, "Well, folks in the audience were saying, let him speak, let him speak," apparently that never happened. And then he attacks Reverend Timmons when she is not there to defend herself. This is classic Trump, I've said this from the beginning, he's a bully, but inside every bully is a coward. And this is an example of that. It's not going to play very well with the voters he needs.

BERMAN: Van Jones, you know, I want to bring you into this again, because tonight Hillary Clinton, when she was speaking to the Hispanic gathering in Washington, D.C., she did bring this up. She also brought up the fact that in a "Washington Post" interview that Donald Trump would not say that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. And Kayleigh and Scottie here have been making the case, "You know what, those aren't the big issues of the campaign right the now. That doesn't get to jobs. That doesn't get to the economy." What's your take?

JONES: Yeah. Well, you know, they're right, as far as it goes. I mean, I've been watching all night. They are correct that most people, they don't wake up in the morning thinking about birtherism or anything else. They want safety, security, et cetera. But at the same time, when you're picking a president, character matters.

It's not -- I think what's offensive to African-Americans isn't just that he went on this crazy tirade, it felt very racially charged, but that he's never shown the character to come back and apologize. That does become a presidential issue because it goes to character. Not the policies, they're right about that. But to say that it says nothing about his character, I don't think that's right.

I like it when people make mistakes and show they've learned from them and can make atonement. When people make mistakes and they don't atone, it makes me very, very nervous. And so, I do think that this is still a very big issue.

He has been trying to reach out to African American voters. When he started off, he was doing a terrible job. He has improved somewhat. But this is the thorn in his paw. And if he does not pull it out, I think he's going to -- he has a ceiling on himself that's not necessary.

MCENANCY: That's just not true. I mean, here is the thing. Donald Trump asked a question of President Obama. He challenged him, were you born here? He asked the same question to Ted Cruz, you know, are you eligible to run for president? He got the answer and moved on. It seems like the only people who haven't moved on are the Clinton campaign, who realize the polls aren't going in their direction, Donald Trump's now winning by two points in the CNN poll, so now they are going back to something that happened eight years ago, because they're desperately trying to change the subject from a Trump message that is winning.


JONES: I see it differently. Listen, I think that, you know, right now the Trump people feel they got a little bit of momentum here, they might be improving a little bit with the African-Americans going from 1 percent to 3, 4, maybe 5, who knows? But it's really not just the Clintons doing kind of political jiu-jitsu on this, trying to, like change the topic.

This is a big, big problem for African-Americans. This is the defining relationship that millions of black voters have with him and it's the easiest thing in the world to do. What Giuliani did and just say, "You know what, I don't agree with it, I take it back, whatever, and then we can move on." But I think you're missing it if you think it's just political ...


BERMAN: Wait, wait, wait. We're going to take a break right now. Van Jones, Kayleigh McEnany, Paul Begala, Scottie Nell Hughes, thanks very much.

Still ahead, between speeches today, Donald Trump take an interview with "Tonigh Show with Jimmy Fallon" and gave the world something new to factor in, the mystery of his hair.

Plus, Dana Bash in an exclusive interview with the Ohio governor and former presidential candidate John Kasich who has refused to get on board the Trump train. Does he think that Trump can win Ohio?


[21:53:01] BERMAN: Just 54 days to go, the polls have tightened nationally and in some key swing states including Ohio, where Donald Trump now has a five-point lead in the new CNN/ORC poll, he's at 46 percent, Hillary Clinton at 41 percent.

Let me be the first to tell you that no Republican has ever won the presidency without winning Ohio. But this year, the Republican Governor John Kasich has refused to endorse Donald Trump. He boycotted the Republican convention in Cleveland in his home state.

Now, Kasich is going to meet tomorrow with President Obama as part of an effort to push the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal. This is another unorthodox move by Kasich. The trade deal has been a flash point in this campaign.

CNN's Dana Bash caught up with the Governor, take a look.


JOHN KASICH, (R) OHIO GOVERNOR: I think this trade agreement is vital. I mean, if I said this, the two most receprious (ph) opponents of the trade agreement are Vladimir Putin, and Xi, one of the most oppressive leaders in the history of China. That, in and off itself, should tell you why this agreement is really important.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know for well it's not just Vladimir Putin that opposes the TPP. It's your party's nominee, the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, and also Hillary Clinton says that she's not for it now.

KASICH: Yeah, pretty amazing.

BASH: So, why do you think you can do something with this president that the two people who want to be president oppose?

KASICH: Because I'm an optimist and I know that facts matter. And I think the political heat that people get from supporting trade, and I've never been an ideological supporter of free trade. When I look at it over time, I don't think we -- I think it's a good choice for America to be able to make sure that we can move our products around the world. I've been in the Republican Party all of my adult lifetime. We've always been for openness and free trade. The fact ...

BASH: But that's changing.

KASICH: Well, I mean, it's changing maybe with some, OK? But I'm not prepared to walk away from that. It's worth fighting over.

BASH: You are a governor of a major state, sitting down with the Democratic president two months before an election. You're not worried about the political backlash from that?

[21:55:09] KASICH: Well, I -- frankly, I welcome it.

BASH: You welcome a backlash?

KASICH: I welcome the fact that people will criticize me for putting my country ahead of my party. It's time we start doing this in this country. We are not a parliamentary system and we were never taught to hate people because we might -- they may be in a different political party.

You know, when it comes to the President, he and I have a lot of disagreements but there are areas where we can agree. And if I can become somebody in the front that leads an effort for people to hear this and say, you know what, maybe he's right, what would I do, shrink, go hide somewhere?

BASH: Trump points to his trade positions as one reason he'll win Ohio, that he disagrees with free trade.

KASICH: I don't think that's what it will turn on. And frankly, part of the problem that the Clinton campaign has is that there's literally no enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton. There just isn't right now. I don't know if it will change but that's -- that is her challenge.

BASH: You obviously are not endorsing Donald Trump, you have made that clear. But it's not just that, the Kasich machine, the people who have worked for you successfully to get out the vote for your races in Ohio, they're not helping Donald Trump. Is there a concern that at the end of the day, if Donald Trump loses Ohio and loses the presidency, Republicans nationwide are going to turn to John Kasich and say, thanks a lot and you're going to get blamed.

KASICH: Well, look, first of all, this vaunted Kasich machine, OK, that's not how you win elections. I mean, we're going to go and help people to get the vote out, obviously.

BASH: For Donald Trump?

KASICH: And senator -- we'll get Republicans out to vote, period. But I don't, first of all, control any machine.

BASH: I'm not saying you control any machine, you just -- you understand very well how to get people out to vote.

KASICH: We want to re-elect Senator Portman and we want to re-elect people down ticket. And frankly, you know ...

BASH: So you're going to be helping to get Republicans to the poll?

KASICH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BASH: And if that means voting for Donald Trump, so be it?

KASICH: Do whatever they do. I wouldn't try to tell somebody. I don't get into an argument with somebody about they ought to vote.

BASH: You'd said you're not going to vote for Hillary Clinton.

KASICH: No, I'm not going to vote for Hillary.

BASH: Have you decided yet what you're going to do when you go into that voting booth? KASICH: No, I'll let everybody know when. But I think my actions have spoken very loudly, louder than even my words.

BASH: Gary Johnson?

KASICH: I haven't even gone there yet. It's a long way until Election Day.

BASH: So, is it still possible that you could vote for Donald Trump?

KASICH: Very unlikely.


KASICH: Too much water under the bridge.

BASH: What if Donald Trump wins? What if he becomes president?

KASICH: Well, we'll see what happens, if that happens.

BASH: What would John Kasich do?

KASICH: Well, I'll still be governor for a couple more years and I still have my agenda and we have a very robust agenda in this Ohio and, you know, depends what they're interested in.

BASH: Could you see yourself sitting in the Oval Office with a President Trump just like you're going to be with President Obama?

KASICH: Look, if whoever is the president, if I can do something to help them in a constructive way and something I agree on, absolutely.


BERMAN: All right, Dana Bash joins me right now.

Dana, pretty unusual to see the Republican governor of a swing state meeting with the Democratic president, we're going to see this tomorrow morning. It's so close to the election.

BASH: It really is. It is a big deal. And I have to tell you that when one of the Governor's aides called me and told me he was coming to do this, I thought I heard wrong at first because it's not just any governor, it's the governor of Ohio, which you mentioned at the top, is a must-win for any Republican. And it's a governor who is actively not supporting Donald Trump for president, so it's risky for John Kasich.

But I have to say, I also think it's kind of eyebrow raising for President Obama to invite Kasich and have him there in such a public way because of course the President supports free trade and wants it to pass, things that Kasich can help. But holding hands with the Republican Governor of Ohio on an issue that is risky for Hillary Clinton, you never know how that's going to play in Ohio where she also needs to win and she's said at least lately, she's against this free trade. BERMAN: Not an issue, but at least, yes, as of now she doesn't support. Dana Bash ...

BASH: Exactly.

BERMAN: ... thank you so much. Appreciate it.

BASH: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. So it's been a long day in politics, a lot of back and forth competed moments in the campaign trail and here on the set. So we wanted to end on a lighter note. Donald Trump taped an interview for "The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon" and included hair raising moment.


JIMMY FALLON, "THE TONIGHT SHOW" HOST: Can I mess your hair up? I'll be gentle. I'll be gentle.

TRUMP: The answer is yes, but the people in New Hampshire where I'm going to be in about an hour from now, I hope they're going to understand. OK.

FALLON: He say, yes.

TRUMP: Go ahead with my hair stuff.

FALLON: Yes, Donald Trump, everybody. I want to do it again. Donald Trump, everybody.


BERMAN: God bless him. It's a lot of hair. That does it for us. Thanks for watching CNN.